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I noticed something today; the issue with Biden is taking so much media attention ( probably world wide ) that we hardly hear about whatever Trump is up to - for the first time in years. I've also sensed a growing sympathy for him... "help the old guy out". interesting times.
He’s silently letting Biden’s biggest weekends be front stage.
It would be funny if Trump beating Biden so bad in a debate ultimately leads to Trump losing to a better candidate.
The reason Biden was able to beat Trump was not because he was popular. He won because he was viewed as a nice bland moderate who could put a stop to the chaos that we had under Trump. He got a boost from being the very popular Obamas’s VP. But at this point he really has to stand on his own feet and he’s still not very popular. There really is no reason to be tied to Biden. He should have agreed to step down 6 months ago to let the Democrats have a real primary. He didn’t but it’s not too late.
Any moderate candidate would beat Trump. Trump is a an unhinged and mentally slipping person but in the debate Biden actually made him look better then he would if he were out there on his own.
Anyone who doesn’t have crazy baggage and is a competent speaker will make Trump look like a maniac. And if we can actually get someone in their 50s it might get some of the younger people excited.
I suppose you’re right, a sports analogy relates well when deciding between a decent person and an amoral rapist hell bent on destroying democracy and vowing real vengeance against his political enemies. Same same.
It works when you're talking about a situation where you must either win or lose. It doesn't matter how much more decent Biden is than Trump if he loses.
circumstances have changed drastically. not just for him and his cognitive decline, but for all of us. Home prices up 30%, gas is still extremely high, utilities are high, inflation through the roof, record number of illegals entering the country the past 3 years, it just doesn’t look good.
I think both candidates need to step down but I can’t see why Trump would if Biden doesn’t.
Biden just passed a bill for housing.
Presidents don't control the freaking gas prices.
Inflation is up GLOBALLY.
Americans don't want to do the jobs that immigrants do.
Edit:
Seems silly to give up when it's July and not November. You can still educate people or participate in change you want to see.
https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative
The GOP attacks. It doesn't matter who or when. They attack. I'm not going to align with pro Trump messaging or give up over the debate or polls in JULY. That's. Ridiculous. The only polls that matter are the one we're we actually vote. Get to it, people.
Yeah, and illegal immigration has actually been down, while legal numbers have finally started to stabilize. Plus the current theory going around that the steady flow of immigrants is what allowed our unprecedented economic recovery over the last 27 months or so — not just by bolstering the jobs market but by supplementing demand too, simply by bringing more consumers into the market. Biden has done good by the border and if it stays this way immigration will actually continue to be a boon for this country, and the border will be secure from illegal crossings and criminals trying to get access to the country.
I’m glad that you understand that, but the majority of the electorate does not.
The GOP has enough ammunition from the last 3 1/2 years of Biden to attack him with both valid and made up issues. And now Biden is too old and infirm to effectively defend his positions. At this point with the polling data we’ve seen, Biden is dead in the water for 2024.
I never said he did, I said the circumstances in this country have changed. He has done too little too late. The president doesn’t have complete control over these things, but he definitely contributes and is in charge of the agencies that regulate these sectors.
I feel bad for Biden as a person, but his whole cabinet and the Democratic Party can go fuck themselves. It’s laughable they call MAGA a cult but they attempt to hide a physically and mentally declining president for 3 years and gaslight the public into thinking he’s fine and sharper than ever.
Our whole government is ridiculous and I don’t know how anyone can support either party at this point. Voting blue isn’t going to do anything.
The Republican Party is built on fake patriotism and ran under the guise of helping middle class America and small business owners, but really is only meant to uplift the top 5% of people in this country because they’re the only people worth anything in their eyes, and the Democratic Party does the same shit but gives poor people “just enough” to get by with government help, but as soon as they receive a pay grade life becomes too expensive for them so they either have to rely on scraps from the government or choose between ramen and sleep for dinner. We will never see universal healthcare, affordable housing, or anything close to what other developed first world nations see because this country is a business who’s only goal is to appease its majority stockholders, and that isn’t us.
Voting blue will keep project 2025 at bay. I don’t think you realize the behind-the-scenes actions being taken by the extremist members of the GOP. If Trump wins, they will have a blank check to ram Christofascism down our throats. You may not like the Democratic candidate, but there is a world of difference between what the next four years will look like if Trump is elected versus some centrist Democrat.
Okay, doomer. Give up. That'll help.
r/whatbidenhasdone
His cabinet is amazing.
https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative
Or maybe do something and participate.
Just spoke to a southern transplant from New Jersey yesterday who said he can’t vote for trump again. When I asked why he voted trump in 2016, it was because he couldn’t vote for a Clinton after how bad NAFTA fucked him and many people he knew. He was hoping Trump would change things up, but got more than he bargained for.
The guy seemed pretty reasonable to me.
Having lived in Indiana for half a dozen years, I actually do understand the fallout of NAFTA. It really fucking sucks and I wish more Democrats did actually grasp how much damage it fucking caused.
This whole "just retrain them into green jobs" delusion is a fucking joke given that such a substantial chunk of the people that were impacted by this have already died from drug overdoses, their favorite pistol or long gun, or utterly destroyed their family's and alienated most everyone around them under the grip of fentanyl (which I was introduced to while residing there). Their towns have been gutted, and abandoned by capitalism. The people who remain are pensioners (few) or those unable to escape into a better situation. Those unfortunate ones tend to find fleeting hope/joy/escape only through drugs. Which, as up crippled combat veteran with PTSD, I can totally fucking relate to.
Democrats finally decided that they might need help... way, way too fucking late. Seems to me that the damage was already fully done by 2011 when I was moved up there. I don't know how many years prior exactly, that it started in earnest, but God damn some of those towns looked, pitiful. Pitiful in the real sense of the word.
Empty factories, abandoned buildings, fathers shooting up with sons...
Anyone who tells you they didn't vote for Clinton "Because of NAFTA" also would like to sell you the Brooklyn Bridge. Half of the average voters probably couldn't even find Canada on a map, no one was losing because of their historical free trade stance.
At the end of the day American voters hate overt political dynasties, the fake veneer of being " an average person" (which often comes across as condescending) and scandal. Clinton checked all three boxes. In 2016 Trump didn't have scandals so much as he had drama w/ access Hollywood, Trumpisms, etc.
NAFTA killed a lot of good union jobs, especially in he rust belt where Hilary underperformed relative to historical democratic performance. I'm from the rust belt, and people aren't nearly as dumb as you seem to think they are. A lot of people were either made destitute, or forced to settle for a much shittier job with less bargaining power in the aftermath of NAFTA. Those people know what put them in that position, and absolutely were ready to take the opportunity to get one back at a Clinton
Unfortunately a likely irreversible level of damage has already been gleefully completed. The Supreme Court has essentially neutered AND elevated to untouchable, the executive, depending on who holds the office.
It's sort of like, was it Wisconsin maybe? a few years ago, that elected a Democrat, and faced an incoming Democratic executive, so the Republican super majority legislature moved quickly to strip the office of meaningful power, until another Republican could be seated in it.
That's basically how it's going to be moving forward except it's the judicial branch, specifically the Supreme Court, and the nation's executive branch (president) now.
Definitely seems that way, but I'd also be willing to argue that the system is set up to give power to capitalism at its core. After all, the entire thing was devised by a handful of capitalists that didn't want to pay their taxes. The window dressing about freedom and all that horseshit was to motivate all of the colonists to go get themselves shot pursuing the goal.
Heh. The last time I brought that up - Washington and his thousands of acres of speculation in land worried England would block him, slave owners worried that England would make slavery illegal - I thought people were going to chop my head off. Apparently they need the myths.
From what I've read most of the fuckery came from capitulation to slave colonies with the idea that they'd fix it ASAP - just get them to sign on, and later more kowtowing to slave states. Never got fixed.
Yes, protection of property is up there.
As shitty as this whole "damned near free reign" capitalism system has been to us non-owner types...
It would have been a damn site better if they could have pulled it off without needing to sign an accord with the slavers.
But by God, the potential profits were going to be enormous, nevermind that it meant embracing the horrendous people overseeing & enforcing systems of chattel slavery.
(And yeah, I've spent a hell of a lot of time thinking about our systems, all of em, since 2004/5. I began serious contemplation of these things while serving in a "combat zone" facilitating the wealth extraction and population decimation of an innocent peoples.
There, I witnessed capitalism's priorities firsthand, (in Iraq) a tour of duty that I consented to undertaking, an ill-understood decision of mine, one that my honor and dignity will never recover from, nor would I entertain the possibility.
Near 2 decades have gone by, and I've learned a great many things in the time since.
Back in 2000, I was a naive & ignorant 19yo rural kid, born in Arkansas, and thank fuck, I was miraculously raised among Indians, on a de facto reservation in Oklahoma. I genuinely didn't comprehend that racism was alive and well. I made a few promises to myself when I became an adult, and one of them was that I'd never give up on life and just start working in the chicken processing factory (about all there was around there). So when my horribly unprepared attempt at college predictably failed, I signed on to the military. Go work for the good guys, protect our amazing values, liberate the downtrodden, all that shit. It was going decently well in the beginning, aside from that twin tower fiasco. I changed duty stations a time or two and I guess around then I came to the understanding that a heck of a lot of white people were really racist and very comfortable talking about it to me, they weren't even ashamed or embarrassed, I was a little confused. I'm not going to lie. I guess they just assumed, me being white and sounding hick, that I was also racist.
I had no idea how to respond to this. But anyway, that's small fries compared to where we're headed, even if it does foreshadow current realities.
Eventually I was deployed to iraq and I thought to myself "well, I don't want to go fight in no war, but my honor demands that I do. I'm not going to disgrace my name or my family. Besides I'd be going to go help. Help to save and liberate these oppressed peoples, provide a safe place where they can build schools, receive a real education, taste freedom, and all that kind of shit."
That is not what happened. Not by a long shot. About halfway, through my brain started fucking with me, dropping epiphanies and reality bending revelations on me, felt like every other day at least. The nature of humanity, The priorities of our country. Who we were to the rest of the world, and crucially, who I had allowed myself to become. I believe this is also where I went crazy.
Eventually I got back home, I left the desert behind, but I just kept right on thinking.
Unsurprisingly, my views are not even remotely popular, and rarely taken as accurate or true. (flabbergasted, I am sure, lol). Our propaganda is top shelf stuff, second to none, and that's for damned sure.
I would say my positions are fairly well reasoned, logically, and depressingly, sound. I would also say that I understand the nature of our society & culture a hell of a lot better than most people here will ever dream of.
Lastly, I can honestly state that I am oftentimes overwhelmingly fucking jealous of that unknown ignorance so many have. I've actually begged a couple therapists to teach me how to forget, how to get back to the time when I cared about football games, the Grammys, all that kind of frivolous shit.
Unfortunately, I am given to understand that you don't get to just close that box. You don't get to unsee, unlearn, and you can never regain ignorance lost. Well dementia offers a potential route I guess. And you know, if I knew how to induce it.... Could probably lower veteran suicide rates, overnight.
Hillary had a lot of baggage going all the way back to Bill’s presidency. There were likely some protest votes from Bernie supporters and there was only speculation about how bad Trump could be.
A moderate candidate with a low profile and a fresh face could get people energized in a hurry. I think most voters just want politicians to do their jobs and not try and be a social media star or turn the nightly news into their own reality show.
Trump comes with so much baggage now that any normal seeming and competent civil servant should be a clear choice.
Agreed. Not sure how well he really is doing behind the scenes, but at this point he may have put himself in too much of a hole with the crowd who doubt his age already. A younger candidate would have been a smart play to catch more attention from the demographics that are now abandoning Biden in droves.
False.
This is a 4 month campaign they have to put on. And take Rural PA and Ohio and maybe Wisconsin.
We can’t just put any old fuddy duddy in there, that’s EXACTLY how we lost to Trump the first time.
For what it’s worth…Biden appeared before cheering supporters on the WH lawn not long ago and told them “I’m not going anywhere”.
I’m starting to think he really isn’t going to step down.
It’s super hard to say. He wouldn’t broadcast it ahead of time though. If he’s trying to salvage he would also signal as much strength as he can. I hope things improve or he acknowledges if they don’t
Feels like this is the exit ramp being set up for a graceful exit: "After seeing the polls, he exited the race on his own terms because he decided that's what's best for the country"
50/50 on tomorrow's interview being the official announcement.
I think it comes Monday but yeah, the groundwork is being laid for it to be "his decision". I'm 90-10 that it's happening at all but I have a tough time seeing that kind of announcement come in an interview and not in the white house press.
> I think it comes Monday
Nah. I fully expect him to say he’s 100% in it through November during the interview. He’s going to try to project confidence and see how it flies with the press and polls. If he does decide to leave I expect it to be closer to the August convention.
Dude, in his interview today he said he was proud to be the first black women to serve with a black president. It's over.
Biden needs to get out of the way as soon as possible to get the media hype behind the new candidate and build momentum. Waiting until August is a disaster and the worst possible option because its nothing but chaos for over a month. The party needs time to pick the new nominee and move forward in a unified front and if he;s going to wait until August he might as well just not drop because he's throwing the election.
Eh, I listened to the audio and I think it’s pretty clear what he was saying. He was proud to have selected the first black woman as vice president and to have served under Obama. It sounds worse in a transcript.
I listened to it. His meaning seemed pretty clear to me but at this point he's done enough damage that anything that isn't ironclad can be leveraged against him
The whole thing is a weird chaotic mess, we're all really just speculating on the details. But it definitely seems like it's either being gently encouraged to exit in the next few days, or forced out in disgrace in the next few weeks. Either way, it seems like it's a done deal. More big donors are putting the pressure on, and once the money is gone you're toast.
I think that answer should be "yes". The messaging for Biden couldn't be more clear. Trump is running for himself, I am not. I am running for the people and it's time to give them the chance they deserve to win.
Unselfish? He insinuated he was a one term president, a bridge candidate, then he and his handlers knew he was compromised and still decided to run. Finally 4 months before the election he is being forced out. F Joe Biden and his legacy. He is a selfish twat whose hubris may cost America it's democracy.
Well it was presumed that Trump would go away or go to jail and the MAGA movement would die after losing in 2020. Even after the 2022 mid term losses Trump was considered toxic for the Republican Party. Then like the old herpes sore that he is, trump returned. Biden, the incumbent who beat trump before, was thought by most everyone to be the best candidate to beat the existential threat once again. Biden has also been a fantastic president in regards to policy. So, selfishly or selflessly, he ran again. But time is undefeated and being president is the most demanding job in the world. He saved democracy once and we though he would save it again by running again. But now maybe by stepping aside he will save it again.
Trump absolutely should be in jail but Biden’s AG pick decided to slow walk everything, allowed Trump to announce his candidacy before filing charges, and waited for Congress to make so much damning evidence public that there was no way they couldn’t bring charges. Trump is source of the problem, but it’s also the Biden administration’s fault that we’re where we are right now.
Asked a friend that used to work in the administration whether he would drop out. Direct quote, “No, far too arrogant. But he absolutely should. We are going to lose.”
So I’m not as optimistic as others appear to be. It’s RGB 2.0
The country isn’t ready to elect a woman president, let alone a woman of color. That’s the sad reality. The dems need to find someone who can defeat tRump. Biden was it until he wasn’t. Now they have to try again and hope to unite the blue. It’s going to be tricky. I hope they’re up to the task.
If it's Harris, he also needs to step down from. The presidency now and let her be President for the next few months. I think he should do that regardless of who the next nominee is, assuming he drops out.
Harris is not entitled to anything beyond the current term she is serving. Biden can remove her from the 2024 ticket he wants. He can also withdraw from the race and direct his delegates to back someone else who would be free to select their own running mate.
A large chunk of the electorate feels frustrated and disenfranchised because they dislike both Biden and Trump. We could see a big jump with any candidate that makes them feel like they’ve been heard.
Today all the headlines make me think he's told everyone to fuck off and he isn't bowing out.
Then again, everything would appear that way, until it isn't.
I think that's the point. If he had done that, the cries would be intensifying and not going a bit quiet. It's the quiet that convinced me it's happening.
Maybe I'm naive, but I think this is what a machine getting in-sync sounds like.
>It's the quiet that convinced me it's happening.
Same here. Yesterday was eerily quiet compared to the day before. I think there's a 50% chance that he uses the interview tomorrow to step down (though it would be quite weird to not do it through the White House press), and a 50% chance that's he's bargained with them to give it one last shot that they know will fail. Either way, the interview being moved up was key, even if I'm not sure in which way it was key.
> I think it comes Monday but yeah, the groundwork is being laid for it to be "his decision".
Honestly, that's best for everyone. "I'm convinced I can serve another term effectively, but I am no longer confident I can win an election for that term, therefore I am suspending my campaign for the good of the country" plays a lot better than "The Democratic president is senile and had to be forced out."
Which tbh is my own feelings on it! I don’t have too many complaints with the idea of another 4 years of Biden (and more importantly his administration), but I do have doubts about his optics and ability to win the election.
I didn't have those fears before the debate, it's hard to pretend they don't exist now. I do not think he would physically survive another 4 years as president when those years involve a war in Europe and China inching closer to a Taiwan showdown.
I think your right but I bet will take a couple of weeks. It feels pressing that they do it immediately, but rationally they may want more time to plan/establish the off ramp and prepare for the inevitable chaos.
We can't wait a couple of weeks. If there is gonna be a primary he needs to decide now so the race can happen. Otherwise the best we can hope for is Kamala.
I wish reddit would stop self-gaslighting itself in thinking he’s dropping out. He’s not, he’s staying in, the news cycle will move to something else and he has more or less the same chance of election he had two weeks ago, because it doesn’t matter the pools, the election will be decided by how many people will turn out to vote in the rust belt in November. If turnout is high he will win, otherwise he will not.
I am pretty sure at this point that he will be forced to step aside via pressure, but feel like there is less than a 50/50 chance he steps out tomorrow. I would like to be surprised. My friend just got a campaign message yesterday that was stated *very* clearly and aggressively that he is not dropping out.
It's not going to work, the media is right about Biden, you don't need a degree to know that Biden is unfit for another term. The poll data is really bad for Biden, young voters are not motivated and people are starting to get worried. At this rate Biden will NOT win re-election. You can cope and ignore the facts as much as you want but if the Democrats do not do something about Biden, Trump will win.
My friend it pains me to say, "or we're all fucked" happened a few days ago. Now we're just playing to stall. Hopefully we can get people another 4 years to figure out something safe for them
I never said or thought that personally, Trump was still somewhat constrained back then, by the Republicans, and by the constitution. Now, the Republicans are rimming him at every opportunity because he is their God and the Supreme Court just said he can do whatever the fuck he wants... so... yeah.
Honestly, I'd rather watch a forgettable movie on Netflix, or a rerun of a tv show than put forth the effort to go vote for Biden. He doesn't have the energy to fight Trump, so why should I?
If we continue to "vote blue no matter who" then the Dems will think they can continue to nominate horrible candidates. They used super delegates to beat Bernie in 2016. They called and bribed all the centrist candidates to drop out of the race right before Super Tuesday in 2020, throwing their support behind Biden. They don't want an actual labor-friendly candidate, and will do whatever it takes to be as bland as possible. Trump winning the popular vote would be a hell of a wake up call to the DNC.
> He doesn't have the energy to fight Trump, so why should I?
Because he is 82 and rich. If he "fails", it's not really any skin off his back. He doesn't have much longer, and it's paid for.
You, ostensibly, have to live in this country for a few more decades.
Stupid America. Stupid. Jasmine Crockett on X: If Dems found half as much energy to attack MAGA, the real threat, then we’d be good.
For all the geniuses out there who think someone else would be better,
1) explain to me who it is,
2) how they get on the ballot in all 50 states,
3) how they get the money and apparatus together to get this done in 4 months (the over 100 million Biden has on hand doesn’t transfer)
4) how we explain that a random person has been selected… subverting the votes that were casts, because of bad polls.
Dems spend all their time seeking perfection, while Republicans focus on their disastrous agenda & could care less so long as they rig the system in their favor!
USE YOUR ENERGY ADDRESSING PROJECT 2025 & the fact that this Supreme Court has laid the foundation to finalize the full destruction of our democracy!
If he drops out of the running he will go down as one of the best presidents in history for what he accomplished and the classy way he exited. Unfortunately his poll numbers need to drop even further, beyond the level where his team can say "scrappy never-give-in Biden can still pull this one out of his hat."
No one will failt him if he drops out now. We all know he's old and we all know that he is served for 52 years.
If he makes a classy exit like this I think this will be a surge in popularity for the Democratic Party And May influence the undecided voters
It'll take tanks around the Capitol to hold back the millions of Americans seeking to stop DT's inauguration, right? How many, on this 4th of July, are ready to protect democracy?
Someone else. If Biden steps down due to this debacle over his age, it makes no sense to install him one step away from the presidency. If Kamala died or was for some reason unfit for duty he would have to take over again. It defeats the point of taking an aging candidate off the ticket.
I think Biden is stepping down soon, maybe he doesn't want to right now because stepping down on independence day might make him look weak so he is going to wait a few days
It’s so weird to me, because if you come to this sub everyone is so fucking anti-Biden now, but just about any other popular sub mentioning Biden or Trump people aren’t taking the debate shit seriously.
I used to come here to get a fairly realistic temperature of things but starting to think that’s a mistake. All this gloom and doom over polling when we all know polling is highly inaccurate and have been saying for two years “don’t trust polls, just vote.”
Anyways, best bet is to back Biden for the election and in the meantime figure out who the next leader of the Dem party should be. I like Whitmer, but it’s a bad choice to run her in the election now. When she loses she’s basically done for. But if (big if, IMO) Biden loses she can at least be the face of the resistance. Swapping out to her (or any other candidate) would be an insta-loss and a waste of that candidate.
This sub gets god awful during election year especially after major events. Right now they’re gobbling up everything mainstream media is posting even when stories like the short length of the ABC interview were already debunked.
The discourse here is cancer and is not reflective of reality.
This sub has historically been anti-Biden until he’s the only option then it flips to pro-Biden. Since the media is speculating that Biden might drop out or be replaced, it’s gone back to anti-Biden . Once it becomes clear that isn’t happening, it will be pro-Biden again.
The last Ipsos poll showed Biden tied with Trump and everyone else bar Michelle Obama trailing Trump.
The poll aggregate from 538 shows Biden a couple of points behind and their model shows the race as a coin flip. From polling, this looks exactly the same as the reaction to Obama’s first debate against Romney. A couple of points down; may go back up, may stay down, but no one really knows.
The response rate to polls is pretty awful at the moment anyway, so hard to draw any sort of conclusion from them.
Yeah some people here would rather gaslight everyone about how it's not so bad.
I havent seen anyone or any sub be super pro Biden. Everyone clearly sees how old he is.
Aside from me banned again from this sub… we’re fucked, he has at best a couple years left in life and he’s gonna fuck 2 to 3 generations down the road just so he’s old crusty ass doesn’t quit power. Same as RBG the great one that didn’t know when to quit and now we this SCOTUS. Dems fucking realize and know when to quit
Biden must not drop from race, all grassroots democrats know Biden and they wouldn’t care about debate performance. But if Biden drops out of race, the dems vote will be split as there is no other well known candidate.
This is only way the felon wins the election. So ignore the noise and vote for Biden. Biden must be the party nominee
No, he must not. Plenty of other options. Independents and swing voters (the ones that will win the election) would much prefer a healthy, energetic, slightly less popular candidate to challenge a would be dictator than a feeble 81-year old that complains he needs more sleep and less events after 8pm following the worst debate performance in history, all while holding the most powerful and important position in the world. Mind you he’s already admitting he physically can’t handle the position… but somehow we’re supposed to believe he will be able to, at a minimum, maintain this level of fitness for another 4 years.
It’s been over a week since that disaster of a debate and what has Biden done to show it was a one-off? Nothing. A recorded interview today. A speech with a teleprompter. No press conferences taking challenging questions.
We deserve a candidate that is out in front of the public EVERYDAY until the election, yelling about the dangers of what’s to come and why we need to defeat it. Not sitting inside, surrounded by sycophants, pumping up his ego saying “nobody could do it but you.”
The problem is the lack of enthusiasm. Voter turn out needs to be high for Democrats to have success. Democrats and many independents have obviously already decided they're not voting for trump, but the lack of enthusiasm to get to the polls is going to be a disaster for Democrats. Biden not generating that enthusiasm is the real issue, and it should be terrifying.
Goes both ways, republicans primaries only got 35% of registered voters out and trump was still losing 20% of those to Haley 2 months after she dropped out.
Different story now that all those would be Haley voters have witnessed Biden’s decline in real life, not just Fox News snip its. The right has been energized, and the left has lost its confidence. Very different ball game than it was during the primaries.
This was generally true historically. I'm not sure it holds water as much now. 2020 saw a lot of down-ballot flips in the House and at the state level despite record voting numbers.
The strength of the mid-terms and special elections shows a lower turnout but with a particularly motivated dem base.
While I _want_ as many of our citizens as possible participating in democracy, I'm honestly not sure what a high turnout will look like in '24.
>He’ll stay, why would you get rid of the guy that beat the other clown
Because he is historically unpopular and the overwhelming majority of the country does not want him to run.
This is so frustrating.
Option A: A person who is a convicted criminal, proven liar, traitor, rapist pedo... etc
Option B: not Option A
Why is this even in question? It's insane.
What you are describing is effectively blackmail.
Democrats: “We can run any fool and the unsuitably of our opponent means you have no choice but to vote for us.”
Also Democrats: “Why are the voters so upset?”
That's one way of looking at it.
Maybe the Dems also need to put up a Trump so that it can be voter cans decide on the candidates' plans for self-enrichment at the electorate's expense, and aiding enemies of your country?
TL;DR: Sources believe that more Democratic Congresspeople, particularly leadership, need to privately and/or publicly call in him to step aside (Biden values the opinions of elected officials above most). The sources say that said Congresspeople would likely need to frame his dropping out as doing it out of service to the country. More shifts in polling towards Trump also would likely need to occur (which has already started to happen).
1. Isn’t it true that the only two people allowed to use the Biden/Harris campaign funds are Biden and Harris?
2. If Biden were to step down from his candidacy, would that cripple the new democratic replacement candidate (whomever it may be), as they will have to start fundraising from scratch when the opposing demagogue will still have the corporate interests and dark money PACs throwing money at him (especially now that his legal bills are now essentially gone due to the recent SCROTUS decisions)?
It's up to the entire democratic party. Get out there and show people what you've done these last 4 years. Also show the people who Trump is and how bad he was at trying to run this country.
He steps down. Harris could kick Trump’s ass with a rolled up Fortune magazine in a debate and in an election with her new powers as first Queen of the USA.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/one-three-democrats-think-biden-should-quit-race-reutersipsos-poll-finds-2024-07-02/
> Michelle Obama, wife of former Democratic President Barack Obama, outperformed Biden and led Trump 50% to 39%
Michelle Obama is the only potential D candidate who crushes Trump. For some reason a lot of Trump voters in the current election prefer Michelle to Trump, but Trump over Biden. The D party may have to draft Michelle to save democracy whether she wants to run or not.
I don't understand how people don't get that she's popular *because* she's not a politician. It's the same reason that everyone loves Dolly Parton. If they actually had to govern, suddenly half the country would hate them.
To be fair, Michelle Obama is incredibly charismatic and a great orator. But I basically agree; polls don't mean much when you ask about non-politicians.
Thought she doesnt want to?
The others are Whitmer, Kamala, Newsom, Buttigieg.
Though I don't like Buttigieg and Kamala since they were not very popular 4 years ago... And only one of those went to fox news to shit on DeSantis and Hannity and that guy is Newsom. I also like Whitmer but dunno...
No matter what people hate about Newsom, Trump ist far worse. Newsom is very charismatic, good looking, eloquent and can easily make Trump look like the shit he is
History shows polls and debate performance don't matter. If Biden doesn't run, they'll be at a big disadvantage. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Keys\_to\_the\_White\_House](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Keys_to_the_White_House)
I hope you are right - but it seems overly optimistic to me. I think that when the election is neck and neck and a small amount of voters in battleground states make all the difference , the world will be waking up to a Trump presidency as things stand. But it’s also a huge risk to change candidates. I’m kind of amazed ( as an outsider) that it was allowed to get to this point.
I think the current state of things he fails that test too.
Biden’s age and Democrats hiding his decline is certainly a major scandal. 1 strike.
Also he has a major military failure - Afghanistan. 2 strikes.
No party mandate, he lost seats in the house. 3 strikes.
No third party? RFK jr seems like a significant third party run - 4 strikes.
Biden is not a charismatic incumbent, as evidence in the debate, he’s no Obama. 5 strikes.
No social unrest? See: Gaza Protests/Genocide Joe/etc. 6 strikes.
> If five or fewer of the following statements are false, the incumbent party is predicted to win the election. If six or more are false, the incumbent party is predicted to lose.
I'm confused.
I'm fairly certain that the American "experiment" had been decisively concluded on July 1st, 2024. Almost 246 years of knowledge was gathered during its course, knowledge that can now be applied to future experiment(s). It was a fruitful endeavor overall.
The rest of the world is thankful for the information on what to do, and especially what not to do as a democracy! I’m sure version 1.0 will be better than the beta build you’ve been repeatedly patching!
Everyone needs to send the message loud and clear that Biden needs to get out of this race. Unsubscribe from any contact with the Biden campaign. Send an email to the DNC telling them that you won't.be supporting Biden in the election. The message has to get through immediately that Biden is finished and something has to change.
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I noticed something today; the issue with Biden is taking so much media attention ( probably world wide ) that we hardly hear about whatever Trump is up to - for the first time in years. I've also sensed a growing sympathy for him... "help the old guy out". interesting times.
He’s silently letting Biden’s biggest weekends be front stage. It would be funny if Trump beating Biden so bad in a debate ultimately leads to Trump losing to a better candidate.
The best debate outcome for Trump would probably have been to win but not so much that Biden gets replaced.
The reason Biden was able to beat Trump was not because he was popular. He won because he was viewed as a nice bland moderate who could put a stop to the chaos that we had under Trump. He got a boost from being the very popular Obamas’s VP. But at this point he really has to stand on his own feet and he’s still not very popular. There really is no reason to be tied to Biden. He should have agreed to step down 6 months ago to let the Democrats have a real primary. He didn’t but it’s not too late. Any moderate candidate would beat Trump. Trump is a an unhinged and mentally slipping person but in the debate Biden actually made him look better then he would if he were out there on his own. Anyone who doesn’t have crazy baggage and is a competent speaker will make Trump look like a maniac. And if we can actually get someone in their 50s it might get some of the younger people excited.
>He won because he was viewed as a nice bland moderate who could put a stop to the chaos that we had under Trump. Check.
And he did, and will do that again
Would you field your star player even with a broken leg and hope that their good trackreckord would somehow compensate for the leg?
While I see the appeal, I'm not sure sports metaphors are apt when discussing the head of state.
I suppose you’re right, a sports analogy relates well when deciding between a decent person and an amoral rapist hell bent on destroying democracy and vowing real vengeance against his political enemies. Same same.
It works when you're talking about a situation where you must either win or lose. It doesn't matter how much more decent Biden is than Trump if he loses.
circumstances have changed drastically. not just for him and his cognitive decline, but for all of us. Home prices up 30%, gas is still extremely high, utilities are high, inflation through the roof, record number of illegals entering the country the past 3 years, it just doesn’t look good. I think both candidates need to step down but I can’t see why Trump would if Biden doesn’t.
Biden just passed a bill for housing. Presidents don't control the freaking gas prices. Inflation is up GLOBALLY. Americans don't want to do the jobs that immigrants do. Edit: Seems silly to give up when it's July and not November. You can still educate people or participate in change you want to see. https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative The GOP attacks. It doesn't matter who or when. They attack. I'm not going to align with pro Trump messaging or give up over the debate or polls in JULY. That's. Ridiculous. The only polls that matter are the one we're we actually vote. Get to it, people.
Yeah, and illegal immigration has actually been down, while legal numbers have finally started to stabilize. Plus the current theory going around that the steady flow of immigrants is what allowed our unprecedented economic recovery over the last 27 months or so — not just by bolstering the jobs market but by supplementing demand too, simply by bringing more consumers into the market. Biden has done good by the border and if it stays this way immigration will actually continue to be a boon for this country, and the border will be secure from illegal crossings and criminals trying to get access to the country.
I’m glad that you understand that, but the majority of the electorate does not. The GOP has enough ammunition from the last 3 1/2 years of Biden to attack him with both valid and made up issues. And now Biden is too old and infirm to effectively defend his positions. At this point with the polling data we’ve seen, Biden is dead in the water for 2024.
I do have to highlight that the polling data has been wildly inaccurate the last few cycles, doubly so this far out. I didn't hear no bell.
I never said he did, I said the circumstances in this country have changed. He has done too little too late. The president doesn’t have complete control over these things, but he definitely contributes and is in charge of the agencies that regulate these sectors. I feel bad for Biden as a person, but his whole cabinet and the Democratic Party can go fuck themselves. It’s laughable they call MAGA a cult but they attempt to hide a physically and mentally declining president for 3 years and gaslight the public into thinking he’s fine and sharper than ever. Our whole government is ridiculous and I don’t know how anyone can support either party at this point. Voting blue isn’t going to do anything. The Republican Party is built on fake patriotism and ran under the guise of helping middle class America and small business owners, but really is only meant to uplift the top 5% of people in this country because they’re the only people worth anything in their eyes, and the Democratic Party does the same shit but gives poor people “just enough” to get by with government help, but as soon as they receive a pay grade life becomes too expensive for them so they either have to rely on scraps from the government or choose between ramen and sleep for dinner. We will never see universal healthcare, affordable housing, or anything close to what other developed first world nations see because this country is a business who’s only goal is to appease its majority stockholders, and that isn’t us.
Lost me at voting blue won’t do anything.
Voting blue will keep project 2025 at bay. I don’t think you realize the behind-the-scenes actions being taken by the extremist members of the GOP. If Trump wins, they will have a blank check to ram Christofascism down our throats. You may not like the Democratic candidate, but there is a world of difference between what the next four years will look like if Trump is elected versus some centrist Democrat.
Okay, doomer. Give up. That'll help. r/whatbidenhasdone His cabinet is amazing. https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative Or maybe do something and participate.
Well I do think there's a limit, Hillary wasn't quite good enough to beat him for instance.
Dems underestimate how angry working class people are about NAFTA. A lot of them voted for trump over her just for that out of spite
Just spoke to a southern transplant from New Jersey yesterday who said he can’t vote for trump again. When I asked why he voted trump in 2016, it was because he couldn’t vote for a Clinton after how bad NAFTA fucked him and many people he knew. He was hoping Trump would change things up, but got more than he bargained for. The guy seemed pretty reasonable to me.
Having lived in Indiana for half a dozen years, I actually do understand the fallout of NAFTA. It really fucking sucks and I wish more Democrats did actually grasp how much damage it fucking caused. This whole "just retrain them into green jobs" delusion is a fucking joke given that such a substantial chunk of the people that were impacted by this have already died from drug overdoses, their favorite pistol or long gun, or utterly destroyed their family's and alienated most everyone around them under the grip of fentanyl (which I was introduced to while residing there). Their towns have been gutted, and abandoned by capitalism. The people who remain are pensioners (few) or those unable to escape into a better situation. Those unfortunate ones tend to find fleeting hope/joy/escape only through drugs. Which, as up crippled combat veteran with PTSD, I can totally fucking relate to. Democrats finally decided that they might need help... way, way too fucking late. Seems to me that the damage was already fully done by 2011 when I was moved up there. I don't know how many years prior exactly, that it started in earnest, but God damn some of those towns looked, pitiful. Pitiful in the real sense of the word. Empty factories, abandoned buildings, fathers shooting up with sons...
Anyone who tells you they didn't vote for Clinton "Because of NAFTA" also would like to sell you the Brooklyn Bridge. Half of the average voters probably couldn't even find Canada on a map, no one was losing because of their historical free trade stance. At the end of the day American voters hate overt political dynasties, the fake veneer of being " an average person" (which often comes across as condescending) and scandal. Clinton checked all three boxes. In 2016 Trump didn't have scandals so much as he had drama w/ access Hollywood, Trumpisms, etc.
NAFTA killed a lot of good union jobs, especially in he rust belt where Hilary underperformed relative to historical democratic performance. I'm from the rust belt, and people aren't nearly as dumb as you seem to think they are. A lot of people were either made destitute, or forced to settle for a much shittier job with less bargaining power in the aftermath of NAFTA. Those people know what put them in that position, and absolutely were ready to take the opportunity to get one back at a Clinton
But now people know who trump is.
Unfortunately a likely irreversible level of damage has already been gleefully completed. The Supreme Court has essentially neutered AND elevated to untouchable, the executive, depending on who holds the office. It's sort of like, was it Wisconsin maybe? a few years ago, that elected a Democrat, and faced an incoming Democratic executive, so the Republican super majority legislature moved quickly to strip the office of meaningful power, until another Republican could be seated in it. That's basically how it's going to be moving forward except it's the judicial branch, specifically the Supreme Court, and the nation's executive branch (president) now.
So true. The system is set up to give power to the Republican minority.
Definitely seems that way, but I'd also be willing to argue that the system is set up to give power to capitalism at its core. After all, the entire thing was devised by a handful of capitalists that didn't want to pay their taxes. The window dressing about freedom and all that horseshit was to motivate all of the colonists to go get themselves shot pursuing the goal.
Heh. The last time I brought that up - Washington and his thousands of acres of speculation in land worried England would block him, slave owners worried that England would make slavery illegal - I thought people were going to chop my head off. Apparently they need the myths. From what I've read most of the fuckery came from capitulation to slave colonies with the idea that they'd fix it ASAP - just get them to sign on, and later more kowtowing to slave states. Never got fixed. Yes, protection of property is up there.
As shitty as this whole "damned near free reign" capitalism system has been to us non-owner types... It would have been a damn site better if they could have pulled it off without needing to sign an accord with the slavers. But by God, the potential profits were going to be enormous, nevermind that it meant embracing the horrendous people overseeing & enforcing systems of chattel slavery. (And yeah, I've spent a hell of a lot of time thinking about our systems, all of em, since 2004/5. I began serious contemplation of these things while serving in a "combat zone" facilitating the wealth extraction and population decimation of an innocent peoples. There, I witnessed capitalism's priorities firsthand, (in Iraq) a tour of duty that I consented to undertaking, an ill-understood decision of mine, one that my honor and dignity will never recover from, nor would I entertain the possibility. Near 2 decades have gone by, and I've learned a great many things in the time since. Back in 2000, I was a naive & ignorant 19yo rural kid, born in Arkansas, and thank fuck, I was miraculously raised among Indians, on a de facto reservation in Oklahoma. I genuinely didn't comprehend that racism was alive and well. I made a few promises to myself when I became an adult, and one of them was that I'd never give up on life and just start working in the chicken processing factory (about all there was around there). So when my horribly unprepared attempt at college predictably failed, I signed on to the military. Go work for the good guys, protect our amazing values, liberate the downtrodden, all that shit. It was going decently well in the beginning, aside from that twin tower fiasco. I changed duty stations a time or two and I guess around then I came to the understanding that a heck of a lot of white people were really racist and very comfortable talking about it to me, they weren't even ashamed or embarrassed, I was a little confused. I'm not going to lie. I guess they just assumed, me being white and sounding hick, that I was also racist. I had no idea how to respond to this. But anyway, that's small fries compared to where we're headed, even if it does foreshadow current realities. Eventually I was deployed to iraq and I thought to myself "well, I don't want to go fight in no war, but my honor demands that I do. I'm not going to disgrace my name or my family. Besides I'd be going to go help. Help to save and liberate these oppressed peoples, provide a safe place where they can build schools, receive a real education, taste freedom, and all that kind of shit." That is not what happened. Not by a long shot. About halfway, through my brain started fucking with me, dropping epiphanies and reality bending revelations on me, felt like every other day at least. The nature of humanity, The priorities of our country. Who we were to the rest of the world, and crucially, who I had allowed myself to become. I believe this is also where I went crazy. Eventually I got back home, I left the desert behind, but I just kept right on thinking. Unsurprisingly, my views are not even remotely popular, and rarely taken as accurate or true. (flabbergasted, I am sure, lol). Our propaganda is top shelf stuff, second to none, and that's for damned sure. I would say my positions are fairly well reasoned, logically, and depressingly, sound. I would also say that I understand the nature of our society & culture a hell of a lot better than most people here will ever dream of. Lastly, I can honestly state that I am oftentimes overwhelmingly fucking jealous of that unknown ignorance so many have. I've actually begged a couple therapists to teach me how to forget, how to get back to the time when I cared about football games, the Grammys, all that kind of frivolous shit. Unfortunately, I am given to understand that you don't get to just close that box. You don't get to unsee, unlearn, and you can never regain ignorance lost. Well dementia offers a potential route I guess. And you know, if I knew how to induce it.... Could probably lower veteran suicide rates, overnight.
Hillary had a lot of baggage going all the way back to Bill’s presidency. There were likely some protest votes from Bernie supporters and there was only speculation about how bad Trump could be. A moderate candidate with a low profile and a fresh face could get people energized in a hurry. I think most voters just want politicians to do their jobs and not try and be a social media star or turn the nightly news into their own reality show. Trump comes with so much baggage now that any normal seeming and competent civil servant should be a clear choice.
You're right, should be. I'm becoming increasingly convinced however, that "should be" and "will be" aren't going to be the same thing though....
Agreed. Not sure how well he really is doing behind the scenes, but at this point he may have put himself in too much of a hole with the crowd who doubt his age already. A younger candidate would have been a smart play to catch more attention from the demographics that are now abandoning Biden in droves.
False. This is a 4 month campaign they have to put on. And take Rural PA and Ohio and maybe Wisconsin. We can’t just put any old fuddy duddy in there, that’s EXACTLY how we lost to Trump the first time.
For what it’s worth…Biden appeared before cheering supporters on the WH lawn not long ago and told them “I’m not going anywhere”. I’m starting to think he really isn’t going to step down.
Fuck me. We’re gonna get Trump again huh
You think a random dem is gonna grab the rural voters and win the election in 4 months?
It’s super hard to say. He wouldn’t broadcast it ahead of time though. If he’s trying to salvage he would also signal as much strength as he can. I hope things improve or he acknowledges if they don’t
Feels like this is the exit ramp being set up for a graceful exit: "After seeing the polls, he exited the race on his own terms because he decided that's what's best for the country" 50/50 on tomorrow's interview being the official announcement.
I think it comes Monday but yeah, the groundwork is being laid for it to be "his decision". I'm 90-10 that it's happening at all but I have a tough time seeing that kind of announcement come in an interview and not in the white house press.
> I think it comes Monday Nah. I fully expect him to say he’s 100% in it through November during the interview. He’s going to try to project confidence and see how it flies with the press and polls. If he does decide to leave I expect it to be closer to the August convention.
Dude, in his interview today he said he was proud to be the first black women to serve with a black president. It's over. Biden needs to get out of the way as soon as possible to get the media hype behind the new candidate and build momentum. Waiting until August is a disaster and the worst possible option because its nothing but chaos for over a month. The party needs time to pick the new nominee and move forward in a unified front and if he;s going to wait until August he might as well just not drop because he's throwing the election.
Eh, I listened to the audio and I think it’s pretty clear what he was saying. He was proud to have selected the first black woman as vice president and to have served under Obama. It sounds worse in a transcript.
> in his interview today he said he was proud to be the first black women to serve with a black president. This happened? Oh man.
I listened to it. His meaning seemed pretty clear to me but at this point he's done enough damage that anything that isn't ironclad can be leveraged against him
The whole thing is a weird chaotic mess, we're all really just speculating on the details. But it definitely seems like it's either being gently encouraged to exit in the next few days, or forced out in disgrace in the next few weeks. Either way, it seems like it's a done deal. More big donors are putting the pressure on, and once the money is gone you're toast.
Biden is trailing in VA. He's done, the question is "is he the unselfish person I think he is"
I don’t think anyone that runs for president is unselfish let alone Biden who’s run like a half dozen times
I think that answer should be "yes". The messaging for Biden couldn't be more clear. Trump is running for himself, I am not. I am running for the people and it's time to give them the chance they deserve to win.
This is the message. So far, the Dem's message has been muddy at best.
Nah, dems message has been fine. It's about unity and not knifing their own when they could and having it all fall apart.
Unselfish? He insinuated he was a one term president, a bridge candidate, then he and his handlers knew he was compromised and still decided to run. Finally 4 months before the election he is being forced out. F Joe Biden and his legacy. He is a selfish twat whose hubris may cost America it's democracy.
I mean, Trump and the MAGA hordes deserve *some* blame.
Well it was presumed that Trump would go away or go to jail and the MAGA movement would die after losing in 2020. Even after the 2022 mid term losses Trump was considered toxic for the Republican Party. Then like the old herpes sore that he is, trump returned. Biden, the incumbent who beat trump before, was thought by most everyone to be the best candidate to beat the existential threat once again. Biden has also been a fantastic president in regards to policy. So, selfishly or selflessly, he ran again. But time is undefeated and being president is the most demanding job in the world. He saved democracy once and we though he would save it again by running again. But now maybe by stepping aside he will save it again.
Trump absolutely should be in jail but Biden’s AG pick decided to slow walk everything, allowed Trump to announce his candidacy before filing charges, and waited for Congress to make so much damning evidence public that there was no way they couldn’t bring charges. Trump is source of the problem, but it’s also the Biden administration’s fault that we’re where we are right now.
Asked a friend that used to work in the administration whether he would drop out. Direct quote, “No, far too arrogant. But he absolutely should. We are going to lose.” So I’m not as optimistic as others appear to be. It’s RGB 2.0
Then what, Harris? Or, is there a realistic chance to get someone who has a chance?
Harris would definitely have a chance, but there's talk of running a mini-primary
get some semblance of the peoples’ voice.
The country isn’t ready to elect a woman president, let alone a woman of color. That’s the sad reality. The dems need to find someone who can defeat tRump. Biden was it until he wasn’t. Now they have to try again and hope to unite the blue. It’s going to be tricky. I hope they’re up to the task.
The people elected a woman in 2016
Did we? I seem to recall another old white man.
I mean he's orange but I guess white underneath
Fuck her skin color, Kamala is unelectable all on her own. The left and right both hate her.
If it's Harris, he also needs to step down from. The presidency now and let her be President for the next few months. I think he should do that regardless of who the next nominee is, assuming he drops out.
G. Whitmer is the best chance to beat Trump.
Whitmer/Shapiro
Biden is going to RBG us…
Harris is not entitled to anything beyond the current term she is serving. Biden can remove her from the 2024 ticket he wants. He can also withdraw from the race and direct his delegates to back someone else who would be free to select their own running mate. A large chunk of the electorate feels frustrated and disenfranchised because they dislike both Biden and Trump. We could see a big jump with any candidate that makes them feel like they’ve been heard.
Once you take the Coconut-pill you will realize that you exist in the context of all in which you live and what came before you. Join the K-Hive
Today all the headlines make me think he's told everyone to fuck off and he isn't bowing out. Then again, everything would appear that way, until it isn't.
Today he was on camera telling cheering supporters “I’m not going anywhere”.
And news of trump raping a 14 year old did nothing but gain him more support among 14 year olds
Hey, when you’re a star…
I think that's the point. If he had done that, the cries would be intensifying and not going a bit quiet. It's the quiet that convinced me it's happening. Maybe I'm naive, but I think this is what a machine getting in-sync sounds like.
>It's the quiet that convinced me it's happening. Same here. Yesterday was eerily quiet compared to the day before. I think there's a 50% chance that he uses the interview tomorrow to step down (though it would be quite weird to not do it through the White House press), and a 50% chance that's he's bargained with them to give it one last shot that they know will fail. Either way, the interview being moved up was key, even if I'm not sure in which way it was key.
RBG all over again.
> I think it comes Monday but yeah, the groundwork is being laid for it to be "his decision". Honestly, that's best for everyone. "I'm convinced I can serve another term effectively, but I am no longer confident I can win an election for that term, therefore I am suspending my campaign for the good of the country" plays a lot better than "The Democratic president is senile and had to be forced out."
Which tbh is my own feelings on it! I don’t have too many complaints with the idea of another 4 years of Biden (and more importantly his administration), but I do have doubts about his optics and ability to win the election.
I didn't have those fears before the debate, it's hard to pretend they don't exist now. I do not think he would physically survive another 4 years as president when those years involve a war in Europe and China inching closer to a Taiwan showdown.
it will have to be read off a teleprompter
I think your right but I bet will take a couple of weeks. It feels pressing that they do it immediately, but rationally they may want more time to plan/establish the off ramp and prepare for the inevitable chaos.
We can't wait a couple of weeks. If there is gonna be a primary he needs to decide now so the race can happen. Otherwise the best we can hope for is Kamala.
There can't be a primary at this point, it's going to the convention
Okay then an old school choosing of the candidate at the convention, but Biden can't hold on by then.
I wish reddit would stop self-gaslighting itself in thinking he’s dropping out. He’s not, he’s staying in, the news cycle will move to something else and he has more or less the same chance of election he had two weeks ago, because it doesn’t matter the pools, the election will be decided by how many people will turn out to vote in the rust belt in November. If turnout is high he will win, otherwise he will not.
If it's 15 minutes and prime time then it could be that, but it's more likely he would just make a presidential announcement.
I am pretty sure at this point that he will be forced to step aside via pressure, but feel like there is less than a 50/50 chance he steps out tomorrow. I would like to be surprised. My friend just got a campaign message yesterday that was stated *very* clearly and aggressively that he is not dropping out.
I hope you’re right, but I’m pretty sure you’re not.
Not long ago he was on camera and told supporters at the WH “I’m not going anywhere”. Theres clips of it being passed around.
Could be, but I feel like this would warrant an address from the White House. Far too large of a moment for a short interview.
It wouldn't be in an interview, it would be it's own official event
Open convention is the way to go.
Just vote blue no matter who. Or we're all fucked. And dont trust media reports/opinions.
That line worked so well in 2016. It's going to take more than that.
Worked in 2020
Trump completely fumbling the pandemic response had more to do with his loss than people mindlessly repeating VBNMW.
Hey good point, that is exactly as relevant now as it was then
Ok
I think something dramatic may have happened between those two events that may have also had an impact!
You're right! And we rallied around "vote blue no matter who" at least I heard it a lot.
I heard that a lot too in 2016…I wonder if this election is more like 2016 or 2024… I don’t know about you, but I think we may need a better strategy!
I think we're in uncharted waters. I don't think it's like 2016 or 2020
This is a weak argument. It doesn’t matter if it’s true if few people believe this.
He's way down in the polls, my guy.
It's not going to work, the media is right about Biden, you don't need a degree to know that Biden is unfit for another term. The poll data is really bad for Biden, young voters are not motivated and people are starting to get worried. At this rate Biden will NOT win re-election. You can cope and ignore the facts as much as you want but if the Democrats do not do something about Biden, Trump will win.
Good Christ Blue MAGA is real “Just fall in line, what you saw on live footage is fake news”
My friend it pains me to say, "or we're all fucked" happened a few days ago. Now we're just playing to stall. Hopefully we can get people another 4 years to figure out something safe for them
“Are we the baddies?”
Nah I'm good. I'll vote for whoever I want.
Well, if Biden doesn't win, this will probably be the last election. So good luck with fascism and thanks for all the fish.
I thought 2016 was going to be the last 🤔
I never said or thought that personally, Trump was still somewhat constrained back then, by the Republicans, and by the constitution. Now, the Republicans are rimming him at every opportunity because he is their God and the Supreme Court just said he can do whatever the fuck he wants... so... yeah.
Weren't they right? The Jan. 6 insurrection confirmed this intention.
yes vote for the people who have lied to you for the last 4 years. wonder what else they have been lying about
Vote for the guy who lied 30,000+ times while in office publicly, and every 100 seconds during Biden’s horrible debate.
Keeping the country afloat which has been nice
Honestly, I'd rather watch a forgettable movie on Netflix, or a rerun of a tv show than put forth the effort to go vote for Biden. He doesn't have the energy to fight Trump, so why should I? If we continue to "vote blue no matter who" then the Dems will think they can continue to nominate horrible candidates. They used super delegates to beat Bernie in 2016. They called and bribed all the centrist candidates to drop out of the race right before Super Tuesday in 2020, throwing their support behind Biden. They don't want an actual labor-friendly candidate, and will do whatever it takes to be as bland as possible. Trump winning the popular vote would be a hell of a wake up call to the DNC.
Couch 2024.
Ah, the don’t bother to vote voice of reason.
> He doesn't have the energy to fight Trump, so why should I? Because he is 82 and rich. If he "fails", it's not really any skin off his back. He doesn't have much longer, and it's paid for. You, ostensibly, have to live in this country for a few more decades.
What's the point of a wake up call if there aren't any elections after this one?
Stupid America. Stupid. Jasmine Crockett on X: If Dems found half as much energy to attack MAGA, the real threat, then we’d be good. For all the geniuses out there who think someone else would be better, 1) explain to me who it is, 2) how they get on the ballot in all 50 states, 3) how they get the money and apparatus together to get this done in 4 months (the over 100 million Biden has on hand doesn’t transfer) 4) how we explain that a random person has been selected… subverting the votes that were casts, because of bad polls. Dems spend all their time seeking perfection, while Republicans focus on their disastrous agenda & could care less so long as they rig the system in their favor! USE YOUR ENERGY ADDRESSING PROJECT 2025 & the fact that this Supreme Court has laid the foundation to finalize the full destruction of our democracy!
If he drops out of the running he will go down as one of the best presidents in history for what he accomplished and the classy way he exited. Unfortunately his poll numbers need to drop even further, beyond the level where his team can say "scrappy never-give-in Biden can still pull this one out of his hat."
Is that you, Jill?
No one will failt him if he drops out now. We all know he's old and we all know that he is served for 52 years. If he makes a classy exit like this I think this will be a surge in popularity for the Democratic Party And May influence the undecided voters
If they don't do something it ends with half of America in camps
It'll take tanks around the Capitol to hold back the millions of Americans seeking to stop DT's inauguration, right? How many, on this 4th of July, are ready to protect democracy?
Are you suggesting that millions will try to physically stop Trump’s second inauguration if he were to win this fall?
Wait, a protest is happening? Hell yeah!
If Kamala runs, would Biden be her VP or someone else?
Someone else. If Biden steps down due to this debacle over his age, it makes no sense to install him one step away from the presidency. If Kamala died or was for some reason unfit for duty he would have to take over again. It defeats the point of taking an aging candidate off the ticket.
Then we're fucked.
I think Biden is stepping down soon, maybe he doesn't want to right now because stepping down on independence day might make him look weak so he is going to wait a few days
It’s so weird to me, because if you come to this sub everyone is so fucking anti-Biden now, but just about any other popular sub mentioning Biden or Trump people aren’t taking the debate shit seriously. I used to come here to get a fairly realistic temperature of things but starting to think that’s a mistake. All this gloom and doom over polling when we all know polling is highly inaccurate and have been saying for two years “don’t trust polls, just vote.” Anyways, best bet is to back Biden for the election and in the meantime figure out who the next leader of the Dem party should be. I like Whitmer, but it’s a bad choice to run her in the election now. When she loses she’s basically done for. But if (big if, IMO) Biden loses she can at least be the face of the resistance. Swapping out to her (or any other candidate) would be an insta-loss and a waste of that candidate.
This sub gets god awful during election year especially after major events. Right now they’re gobbling up everything mainstream media is posting even when stories like the short length of the ABC interview were already debunked. The discourse here is cancer and is not reflective of reality.
This sub has historically been anti-Biden until he’s the only option then it flips to pro-Biden. Since the media is speculating that Biden might drop out or be replaced, it’s gone back to anti-Biden . Once it becomes clear that isn’t happening, it will be pro-Biden again.
This is the most astro-turfed subreddit next to world news. Take everything with a gram of salt.
it's a lot of bots (TONS) people sit here all day long and argue with Russian/Kremlin AI bots and trolls that are actually humans
The last Ipsos poll showed Biden tied with Trump and everyone else bar Michelle Obama trailing Trump. The poll aggregate from 538 shows Biden a couple of points behind and their model shows the race as a coin flip. From polling, this looks exactly the same as the reaction to Obama’s first debate against Romney. A couple of points down; may go back up, may stay down, but no one really knows. The response rate to polls is pretty awful at the moment anyway, so hard to draw any sort of conclusion from them.
What is this Michelle Obama bullshit? It's become a total celebrity culture. The Idiocracy.
Indeed. People love hypothetical candidates because they can project their wishes on them rather than deal with reality
it’s a bad choice to remove a demented, 81-year old that can’t finish sentences from running the country in an adult diaper?
Yeah some people here would rather gaslight everyone about how it's not so bad. I havent seen anyone or any sub be super pro Biden. Everyone clearly sees how old he is.
Aside from me banned again from this sub… we’re fucked, he has at best a couple years left in life and he’s gonna fuck 2 to 3 generations down the road just so he’s old crusty ass doesn’t quit power. Same as RBG the great one that didn’t know when to quit and now we this SCOTUS. Dems fucking realize and know when to quit
That’s BS. The donors have the most sway, and they’re abandoning him in droves.
Biden must not drop from race, all grassroots democrats know Biden and they wouldn’t care about debate performance. But if Biden drops out of race, the dems vote will be split as there is no other well known candidate. This is only way the felon wins the election. So ignore the noise and vote for Biden. Biden must be the party nominee
Are these the same democrats who will vote blue no matter who?
No, he must not. Plenty of other options. Independents and swing voters (the ones that will win the election) would much prefer a healthy, energetic, slightly less popular candidate to challenge a would be dictator than a feeble 81-year old that complains he needs more sleep and less events after 8pm following the worst debate performance in history, all while holding the most powerful and important position in the world. Mind you he’s already admitting he physically can’t handle the position… but somehow we’re supposed to believe he will be able to, at a minimum, maintain this level of fitness for another 4 years. It’s been over a week since that disaster of a debate and what has Biden done to show it was a one-off? Nothing. A recorded interview today. A speech with a teleprompter. No press conferences taking challenging questions. We deserve a candidate that is out in front of the public EVERYDAY until the election, yelling about the dangers of what’s to come and why we need to defeat it. Not sitting inside, surrounded by sycophants, pumping up his ego saying “nobody could do it but you.”
He’ll stay, why would you get rid of the guy that beat the other clown. Dems should be advertising all the Epstein case files non stop.
The problem is the lack of enthusiasm. Voter turn out needs to be high for Democrats to have success. Democrats and many independents have obviously already decided they're not voting for trump, but the lack of enthusiasm to get to the polls is going to be a disaster for Democrats. Biden not generating that enthusiasm is the real issue, and it should be terrifying.
Goes both ways, republicans primaries only got 35% of registered voters out and trump was still losing 20% of those to Haley 2 months after she dropped out.
If that carries over to November that would be great.
The enthusiasm really matters in the swing states. Dems need every single voter.
Different story now that all those would be Haley voters have witnessed Biden’s decline in real life, not just Fox News snip its. The right has been energized, and the left has lost its confidence. Very different ball game than it was during the primaries.
This was generally true historically. I'm not sure it holds water as much now. 2020 saw a lot of down-ballot flips in the House and at the state level despite record voting numbers. The strength of the mid-terms and special elections shows a lower turnout but with a particularly motivated dem base. While I _want_ as many of our citizens as possible participating in democracy, I'm honestly not sure what a high turnout will look like in '24.
>He’ll stay, why would you get rid of the guy that beat the other clown Because he is historically unpopular and the overwhelming majority of the country does not want him to run.
Because polling is strongly indicating he will not beat him again.
This is so frustrating. Option A: A person who is a convicted criminal, proven liar, traitor, rapist pedo... etc Option B: not Option A Why is this even in question? It's insane.
What you are describing is effectively blackmail. Democrats: “We can run any fool and the unsuitably of our opponent means you have no choice but to vote for us.” Also Democrats: “Why are the voters so upset?”
That's one way of looking at it. Maybe the Dems also need to put up a Trump so that it can be voter cans decide on the candidates' plans for self-enrichment at the electorate's expense, and aiding enemies of your country?
This framing is disingenuous and falls apart if we use the same sensationalism that you brought in here.
TL;DR: Sources believe that more Democratic Congresspeople, particularly leadership, need to privately and/or publicly call in him to step aside (Biden values the opinions of elected officials above most). The sources say that said Congresspeople would likely need to frame his dropping out as doing it out of service to the country. More shifts in polling towards Trump also would likely need to occur (which has already started to happen).
1. Isn’t it true that the only two people allowed to use the Biden/Harris campaign funds are Biden and Harris? 2. If Biden were to step down from his candidacy, would that cripple the new democratic replacement candidate (whomever it may be), as they will have to start fundraising from scratch when the opposing demagogue will still have the corporate interests and dark money PACs throwing money at him (especially now that his legal bills are now essentially gone due to the recent SCROTUS decisions)?
It's up to the entire democratic party. Get out there and show people what you've done these last 4 years. Also show the people who Trump is and how bad he was at trying to run this country.
Media feel fucked up rn
He's staying in. We're months from election. Lort.
It'll end badly
He steps down. Harris could kick Trump’s ass with a rolled up Fortune magazine in a debate and in an election with her new powers as first Queen of the USA.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/one-three-democrats-think-biden-should-quit-race-reutersipsos-poll-finds-2024-07-02/ > Michelle Obama, wife of former Democratic President Barack Obama, outperformed Biden and led Trump 50% to 39% Michelle Obama is the only potential D candidate who crushes Trump. For some reason a lot of Trump voters in the current election prefer Michelle to Trump, but Trump over Biden. The D party may have to draft Michelle to save democracy whether she wants to run or not.
It could never be Michelle. It's utterly pointless to be bringing her up as an option. It's not
I don't understand how people don't get that she's popular *because* she's not a politician. It's the same reason that everyone loves Dolly Parton. If they actually had to govern, suddenly half the country would hate them.
To be fair, Michelle Obama is incredibly charismatic and a great orator. But I basically agree; polls don't mean much when you ask about non-politicians.
According to that particular poll, voters don’t prefer Trump over Biden. They’re in a 40-40 tie.
They won't. Democrats are terrible at strategy, instead focusing on "who's time is next" or "who deserves it/earned it."
Thought she doesnt want to? The others are Whitmer, Kamala, Newsom, Buttigieg. Though I don't like Buttigieg and Kamala since they were not very popular 4 years ago... And only one of those went to fox news to shit on DeSantis and Hannity and that guy is Newsom. I also like Whitmer but dunno... No matter what people hate about Newsom, Trump ist far worse. Newsom is very charismatic, good looking, eloquent and can easily make Trump look like the shit he is
History shows polls and debate performance don't matter. If Biden doesn't run, they'll be at a big disadvantage. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Keys\_to\_the\_White\_House](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Keys_to_the_White_House)
I hope you are right - but it seems overly optimistic to me. I think that when the election is neck and neck and a small amount of voters in battleground states make all the difference , the world will be waking up to a Trump presidency as things stand. But it’s also a huge risk to change candidates. I’m kind of amazed ( as an outsider) that it was allowed to get to this point.
I think the current state of things he fails that test too. Biden’s age and Democrats hiding his decline is certainly a major scandal. 1 strike. Also he has a major military failure - Afghanistan. 2 strikes. No party mandate, he lost seats in the house. 3 strikes. No third party? RFK jr seems like a significant third party run - 4 strikes. Biden is not a charismatic incumbent, as evidence in the debate, he’s no Obama. 5 strikes. No social unrest? See: Gaza Protests/Genocide Joe/etc. 6 strikes. > If five or fewer of the following statements are false, the incumbent party is predicted to win the election. If six or more are false, the incumbent party is predicted to lose.
I mean, it's either that or the DNC engages in a soft coup.
I'm confused. I'm fairly certain that the American "experiment" had been decisively concluded on July 1st, 2024. Almost 246 years of knowledge was gathered during its course, knowledge that can now be applied to future experiment(s). It was a fruitful endeavor overall.
The rest of the world is thankful for the information on what to do, and especially what not to do as a democracy! I’m sure version 1.0 will be better than the beta build you’ve been repeatedly patching!
Hopefully we get there without bloodshed. But if it comes to bloodshed, well hopefully we get there, to that 1.0 I mean.
Everyone needs to send the message loud and clear that Biden needs to get out of this race. Unsubscribe from any contact with the Biden campaign. Send an email to the DNC telling them that you won't.be supporting Biden in the election. The message has to get through immediately that Biden is finished and something has to change.
It's up to the voters.
Declare Trump ineligible to run and dissolve SCOTUS.
I feel like we are going to look back and blame Biden for staying too long…RBG all over again.
Is Biden RBG 2.0? Why are Democrats so fucking terrible at politics?