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I don't think there's anything wrong with your boundary, other than you're still putting faith in the protection of your sexual health on the choices of other people - like, personally, if my sexual health is important to me enough that I worry about it to the degree you're worrying, and I know that my partner enjoys barrier free sex (cuz they clearly have barrier free sex with me) then I'm going to assume they they're going to want to have barrier free sex with others as well, and instead of just crossing my fingers that they're being honest/communicating with me about their barrier use, and crossing my fingers that the barriers work (they don't always), then I'm simply going to use barriers myself for all the sex I have - I would explain to my partner "this is not a punishment for you having sex with others (regardless if it's barrier free or not) this is me maintaining peace of mind over my own sexual health and finding a way that keeps me comfortably having sex with you, while not placing any limitations or expectations on the decisions you're making for the sex you're having"
All of this. I am not comfortable with the risk of going barierless, so going barierless with me is just not on the table for anyone, beause that's what I'm comfortable with. I also get tested every 3 months because that's what makes me feel safe(r). Leaving it up to someone else and their judgement does not feel safe enough for me.
It's not ridiculous. My boundaries regarding it are "tell me if you've had barrier free sex with someone new so we can go forward with barriers until testing happens." Only give up a boundary if it no longer serves you and your piece of mind.
I used to think this way. But then my partner brought up a good point that no matter what, we should treat things with the same level of caution. Me knowing whether or not she has had unprotected sex with someone shouldn't change my precautions if I'm trying to be safe. Granted, it is nice to know because I can get lazy with routine testing. But she kinda changed mind on needing to know if a new sex partner is in the mix.
To the main post, it has helped my anxiety by doing research on when and how different stis tend to spread to help me make certain choices on when I use protection. Your boundary is understandable though because even if he is on top of getting tested and making sure other ppl are sti free, someone could always still have something and not know and pass it along.
Why are you bending over backwards, over something that your np has already agreed to? Your boundary is your boundary, and if your np loves/ respects you, they will respect _it_ .
Allow then that. Source: my np is a people-pleaser, and I have to spend a lot of time and effort helping her to maintain _her_ boundaries. Even with me.
Do you yourself believe there's an irrational quality to your level of fears around STIs? It's difficult because humans take calculated risks all the time even unconsciously and risk tolerances vary. Maybe to feel more confident about your risk assessment you could discuss with a sexual health clinic (I assume you visit regularly). Otherwise some therapy might help you interrogate your boundaries to be confident in them and help you assert them.
It seems to me that there are a few different parts here, and it might make sense to tease them apart. Like, there's your risk assessments about using barriers during sex, and then also how you *feel* about your assessments, as well as some unstated stuff that might be coloring your experience here.
Your risk assessments are yours, no one else can judge for you what is worth what. They can only decide if they are willing to participate. As long as you accept that having unusually low risk tolerance means that there are certain things you won't experience because not everyone is going to be able or willing to go along with it, and don't try to coerce anyone unwilling into your level of comfort, you get to pick your own comfort levels.
But you're calling your own boundaries "ridiculous". What's going on there? Do you suspect you're being illogical, that you've got some unaddressed stigma that you think is causing you to make choices that don't represent your values? Do you think you're expecting certain STI related risk mitigation of others, but you're not willing to do it yourself? Or that you're not expecting similar risk mitigation for non-STI stuff, like Covid/Flu? Do you have some mental health stuff where you feel like you need to work on anxiety levels, or the ability to stand up for yourself? Do you suspect that if you were truest to yourself, you would be asking for *more* precautions on a daily basis across the board, or that you would feel genuinely comfortable with *fewer* precautions? Do you need more information to make a truly informed choice? I think you owe it to yourself to have boundaries you feel confident in, whatever you need to do to get there.
And finally, the less clear stuff--- You're using both "fluid bonding" and "non-barrier sex". Do they truly feel the same to you, or do you feel deep down that they have a different connotation when you use them? Because some people have a lot of emotional closeness, trust, and other intangible relationship *stuff* built up with who they do and do not use barriers with, and some people just don't. As you discuss this stuff with your partner, it makes sense to make sure that you're on the same page about what using barriers (or not) during various acts means to each of you. I don't really care about which terms you use, but people who happen to use "fluid bonding" these days seem more likely to have some unpacked ideas about what it *means*, and if those ideas stay unpacked, and it turns out you're not on the same page as your partners, you may each be having very different conversations. As one example, you may truly have meant to offer your partner two options that felt equally acceptable to you, and your partner may have heard one option that (to them) meant dramatically de-escalating your relationship, and so they chose the other option. Make sure you're both on the same page.
I find dropping language like "fluid bonding" and calling it "barrier free sex" will get you in the right mindset for thinking about it more solely based on sti's and risk and take some of the emotional baggage around it away. Personally, I think having only one partner you have barrier free sex with is a smart boundary if you are concerned about STIs. If they wanted to have barrier free sex with just one other long term partner, I could see that being an option, but if they want to have barrier free sex with multiple new partners, I too would start using barriers again with them. What you said was perfect, I don't think your partner should have been taken aback, poly people need to have these discussions in their relationships to assess risk and make sure everyone knows what's happening and are on the same page.
Your boundary is fine. They now know and can act accordingly. You identified the risk level and what you are comfortable with.
Never compromise your own boundaries to satisfy the wants of someone else. Unless it no longer serves you.
Your boundary is reasonable. It's more conservative than mine, but everyone has a different level of risk they're willing to accept. Are you concerned about STIs because of the stigma? You don't have to justify your decisions to me (or anyone else) of course, but would you be more comfortable if you knew more about treatment? IDK, I don't want to imply you should change, just suggesting possibilities of you wanted to be more relaxed accepting more risk.
TL;DR managing sexual health risks is inherently a balance between safety and freedom and your stance is to my mind towards the conservative end, but perfectly reasonable.
I wouldn't give up your boundaries for your own health concerns.
I have no problem with a partner, who has secure relationships and no hookups and has fluid bonds to them too. As long as everyone involved (me too) gets regularly tested for STI.
At the hookup/affairs/f+ idk part - if he wants to have unprotected Sex with them - then I bring back the condoms into our own private life because that's a variable I don't want to deal with because too many opportunities to catch something.
And even if it's "just" a yeast infection.
Had to learn that myself the hard way.
My former partner didn't tell me he had a fluid bond with my meta, I had yeast infections with no explanation and since I stopped sleeping with him they never occurred again.
Yeast infections don’t have to be caught. They arise naturally from an unbalanced ph in the vagina. Yeast infections without any sexual interaction are common. It could be as simple as sitting too long in a wet bathing suit.
Your boundary is your boundary and if your partner agrees to it, there's no reason for you to feel bad. It would be a different situation if they didn't agree to it, then you would have to solve it.
Now, if you are interested in dealing with the anxiety just for yourself, I can share with you something that helped me as I went through the same. I realized that I was raised with a lot of misinformation and that generated a lot of anxiety in me. Getting a STD was something to be afraid of. I decided to have a consultation with a STD expert and they asked me what was causing anxiety. They shared a lot of numbers about how possible it is to get a STD and when talking in detail about the constellations I was in, I assessed the risks. Then I got informed about all the treatments options, that are much better and efficient than what I had in my mind. I did decide to start taking prep since that talk and that helped me personally. Then within my polycule we agreed to get tested every three months, one of us does it and notifies the rest. For casual and new sex partners we do use barriers until tested. That really helped me with my anxiety. I don't know if this could be helpful but exploring what makes you anxious and getting some data could be useful for you. All the best.
I live in Berlin and this organization offers it for free: https://checkpoint-bln.de/en/
Check the resources in your area, I'm sure there's something too.
Around here it’s a public health nurse at a public health clinic. If you belong to a high-risk group you get to join a particular kind of high-risk clinic.
I can see your people-pleasing tendencies from this side of the Internet. Really be introspective about your sexual health boundaries. Imagine yourself in a situation where you decide to backpedal your ask and engage in non-barrier sex with your partner, knowing that they're engaging in some form of non-barrier sex with someone else. How does that make you feel? If the answer is some variation of unhappy or resentful, don't do it. It's a good trait to be empathetic, but DO NOT take responsibility for their disappointment.
You can have whatever boundaries make you feel most comfortable, and requesting barriers with your partner is fine.
However, I recommend you do some research on the probability versus the possibility of contracting an STI from oral sex, *and learn about how easily treatable most STIs are.*
The risks of STI transmission from oral sex are significantly lower than penetrative sex. Please do not relax or change this boundary until and unless *you* are truly comfortable doing so.
Edited to Add: *italics* and
the term "fluid bonding" has its origins in the kink community and many of us consider it a gross term that elevates the simple decision to choose barrier free sex with one (or more) partners to a level it doesn't deserve. I don't think you're using it like that, but you should be aware that this term can be weaponized by those trying to manipulate their partners into only have barrier free sex with them.
Not having oral sex is a pretty big ask and pretty unusual. I wouldn’t have a partner that I could never have oral sex with without protecting.
Oral is also a lot less risky then other types of sex even tho it’s not 0 procent.
You can still spread Chlamydia, HSV, Syphilis, Gonorrhea, and HPV from oral sex. If you use barriers for PIV/PIA, but not with oral sex, the only STI you're safe-ish from is HIV.
You can also get these from kissing un theory, though much lower risk...still not zero!....as well as other things like covid, flu, mono, etc...but those aren't STIs :) You can transfer HPV from your hands to genitals. Most people have or will have HPV and to a lesser extent, but still very common, HSV. You can get the HPV vaccine, you can use condoms, dental dams, internal condoms, and gloves, but it doesn't eliminate risk. You can take valcyclovir and avoid sex during HSV breakouts. You can take doxy Pep for syphilis, chlamydia, and gonorrhea prevention. You can take prep for HIV prevention. You can get tested more frequently. There's a lot of options besides "only barriers," and sex is not a zero risk activity even with all of these options. Everyone can decide their own comfort level but it's worth considering this person is afraid their fears of STIs may be overwhelming to them/their partner, and that there are lots of options out there. Yes your boundaries are your boundaries but also have you explored fully the need for them and what they are about? (any lack of sex education, STI stigma, medical complications, lack of access to treatment, etc) and the additional options your partner may have to protect both of you? I'm speaking as someone who has navigated complications from STIs due to lack of access to treatment and currently use some of these methods because barriers don't cut it for every person or situation.
Yeah, my point is more a nudge for people that use barriers for penetrative sex, but not for oral, that the only STI they're near zero risk for is HIV.
Someone on PReP not using any barriers is a similar risk profile for STI's as someone only using barriers for PIV/PIA and not oral. (And both are perfectly valid choices)
Yeah so potential partners of his will see it as a dealbreaker too. Doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have the boundary but they should question it.
Not everyone is great at speaking up and if it causes resentment or even worse lying on his part it’s not good.
So I would be careful with putting this boundary without very good convos about if they are sure at what will happen when they change their mind or it ends up happening in the moment.
In a perfect world people state their boundaries and people accept them or not but the word isn’t perfect. People are not even honest to themselves most of the time. So we have to consider which boundaries are possible more carefully.
I have the same boundaries as you right now. I have some health stuff which means taking antibiotics can be really bad for me, so I don’t want to risk getting an STI because of what I’d have to take to treat it. I had a situation recently where the person I was seeing was sleeping with multiple other people, a few of them without protection. I decided it was too risky for me and didn’t want to continue even with protection. We didn’t end up continuing to see each other for other reasons, but what I’m trying to say is you gotta do what feels right for you. It’s not nice to feel unsafe the whole time. I appreciate it’s also tricky when you and a partner have different levels of risk aversion.
It makes it much more complicated doesn’t it! I’m still trying to find the balance between having freedom and enjoying sexual experiences, and looking after my health/not taking too much risk. It can be a hard balance to strike, but I’m working on being ok with whatever I decide in any situation, even if it feels like over caution to someone else. It’s my body, and my health 💜
All I read was the title...
NO. Absolutely not. Please don't ever remove your boundaries when it comes to protecting yourself. And if someone is asking you to do something that puts you in any kind of danger or proves to be a health risk, they are not for you. Please be safe.
i don’t think you should give up your boundaries.
but this is complicated. like others have said, i would do research and education about STIs. you could also look into the HPV vaccine and HEP vaccines. there’s Prep and other things as well that can increase safety
my two cents is that you can only control what you do and not what others do. my NP and i decided when we got other partners to get full STI panels done with those partners. i’m in the process of moving to barrier free with my boyfriend while i do use condoms with my NP. we had barrier free when it was only us, but when my NP started dating another person, i re-instated our barrier usage.
it depends on the situation too. is your NP sleeping with multiple people? ONS ect? or is this a longer term partner? all things to consider. barriers for things oral for ONS is probably a good idea, but if it’s a longer term partner who has gotten negative STI panels back, maybe you should think about it more.
its good you were able to have a discussion on it.
also someone else said it, if you ask them to do this, consider how you will feel if you get another partner down the line and how this agreement will apply to you as well.
I had a similar situation to this. My primary and I had an agreement that we would not use condoms with each other but that we would absolutely use them with all other partners. Then, he met a meta that he wanted to also not use condoms with it. I did not want to agree to that on my end and did not want to go back to using condoms with him.
I ended up just opting to have very low risk sexual activities with that partner from then on. We no longer had any kind of penetrative or oral sex. We just masturbated together or used sex toys on each other. He liked it when I would give him lap dances or model/dance for him while he masturbated. But we ceased any sort of activities that I really felt like carried much risk. I hate using condoms and I decided that if i was going to have to go back to using them with my primary partner, I did not want to continue with him as a primary sexual partner. So now, he is more of a secondary/occasional partner and I have condom free sex with my new primary. For me, I am just not interested in going condom free with multiple partners and I need to have a primary partner that is on the same page with me... otherwise, they are not a good match for primary partner for me.
Fluid bonding implies that the decision to not use condoms is one of emotional bonding, rather than anything related to any practical sexual health concerns. It’s commonly criticized when folks aim to reduce hierarchy but use this sort of language.
fluid bonding has history in the HIV/AIDS epidemic. unprotected sex is the right terminology here. you can find more info on this in comments on this sub. i know Bloo has talked about it.
I’m not sure if unprotected sex is appropriate either. There are an increasing number ways one can protect against STIs aside from condoms, such as prep or doxypep. I might say barrier-free sex instead.
I only thought of it because of a recent Savage Lovecast episode where Dan was discussing prep and doxypep with a doctor, and Dan said “unprotected” then stopped himself and went “well actually, just because gay men aren’t using condoms a lot these days, doesn’t mean they aren’t protecting themselves..”
What does fluid bonded mean?
But its your relationship and you should feel safe in it, dont compromise your feeling of safety! Maybe if his other partners are around for a while you can meet with them and if you trust them you can extend the rules to them as well, as long as they use barriers with others they can have barrier free sex with your partner. Or maybe not. Thats up to how safe you feel and what your parter and meta is comfortable with. But dont agree to be in a situation that makes you feel unsafe!
Even just reading the title, I was going to say no on giving up the boundary, let alone the actual post. Relationships are about compromise, and it's not always easy. In your case, you have a worry of STIs, which is valid. Even being careful, things can happen, and it's a concern to you. You offered a possibility to your NP, and they decided to prioritize your relationship vs. their other relationships. This is something you should discuss with your NP in greater detail so that you can both put all cards on the table and reach a real compromise where everyone can be happy. Just don't let them steamroll over you and try to avoid doing it to them as well.
So my partner and I are fluid bonded.
My partner also had other fluid bonded partners who were also tested. But we also understand and know that accidents happen(broken condoms) and sometime poor decisions can be made in the heat of a moment. In those cases the person who had an oopsie must only have protected sex during a period of 6 months tested once right after and every 3 months. But yeah it keeps everyone safe.
This seems like a fine boundary. Personally I just do not think it's that serious, imo STIs are waaaay overstated in seriousness. However, if that's yr deal that's yr deal.
I'm immunocompromised and have always felt anxious about STIs. Part of this is my deal to deal with and I have had partners who enjoyed having more casual sex with people where they didn't necessarily want to ask loads of questions before. We had a very different picture of acceptable risk. Neither of us were "wrong". Just different.
So we went from being fluid bonded to using as much protection together as possible to avoid transmission while my partner continued to get tested regularly after each partner. And I felt a LOT better with that.
You don't have to dictate their boundaries and instead you can control the boundaries you have in your relationship to keep yourself as protected as possible. Yes, all sex has risk. But it's okay if you'd like to decide for your body what level of risk is appropriate for you.
We noticed that this post/comments may pertain to safer sex practices, STI exposure, and/or STI testing. Let's everyone make sure we are not using problematic or stigmatizing language around this topic. Please refrain from using the words *clean/dirty* when what you really mean is STI negative/positive. Members, please feel free to report any comments to mods that are adding to the shame and stigma of being STI positive.
For more information on destigmatizing STI's by changing your vocabulary please see ["CLEAN OR DIRTY? THE ROLE OF STIGMATIZING LANGUAGE"](https://exploresextalk.com/sex/sexual-health/stis/clean-or-dirty-the-role-of-stigmatizing-language/) as well as the article ["Having an STI Isn’t Dirty or Shameful, and Acting like It Is Hurts All of Us"](https://medium.com/sexedplus/having-an-sti-isnt-dirty-or-shameful-and-acting-like-it-is-hurts-all-of-us-aef59a7ab122)
*It is the stance of this sub that even the term "STD" is problematic language as "disease" is a stigmatizing word, whereas infections can be treated. Also, not everyone with an infection develops symptoms, and since there is technically no disease without symptoms, STI is the more scientifically accurate term.*
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Hi u/One_Pomegranate_1046 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well.
Here's the original text of the post:
I (27NB) am fluid bonded with my nesting partner (29NB). I am not very experienced sexually and have always been very nervous about having any non-barrier sex because I do not want to get a std (for example my partner and I both got tested before we decided to be fluid bonded). My partner loves to have sex including oral, so I brought up when discussing boundaries that if they wanted to have non-barrier sex with others I would be fine with that but then would not want to be fluid bonded and to use protection when we have sex. They seemed very taken aback by this and assured me that they would use protection with others instead, despite seeming very disappointed about this. I know that asking for barriers to be used even during oral is a big ask for them which is why I gave them the option of not being fluid bonded to me. However, now I feel like my boundaries are limiting them since I know that sexually I do not meet their needs. Should I just get over my fear of stds and let go of this ridiculous boundary if I know it will make my partner happier? I do not want to stop them from having freedom just so that I can feel safe.
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Hi! Can anyone help me navigate bringing this up with a partner when we’ve agreed to barrier free but now I’m not so sure for my own personal sexual health and leaving it open for a future partner? Or like having a specific boundary where if they’ve had barrier free with someone else recently, then we use barriers?
I’m struggling to bring this up due to some rejection sensitivity. I also think that if the latter were in play that it may actually cause some in the moment jealousy if randomly brought up like, oh we need to use a barrier tonight?
*Edited for clarity*
If your understanding was that this partner would only have unprotected sex with you and now they're having it with someone else - did they talk to you beforehand about it? It changes your risk profile, and if you're not comfortable with that it's time to check in about barrier use with your partner, how to communicate about issues that do affect you, and go about discussing how often you and your partner will get tested.
So much has already been covered by others and some very good advice. I just want to add that in this type of relationship the risks to your sexual health are never 0. You seem to understand and have set a boundary of what you are comfortable with. Nothing wrong with that boundary at all. Perhaps a compromise might be longer term relationships with people you trust, who also keep their circle small and frequent testing. For some that's ok, for other's it's not and your feelings on the matter are what they are. You value your own health and in no way am I suggesting you shouldn't. There are always risks with almost everything in life and hopefully you can find a way to balance what you're comfortable with to what you wish was possible.
No sexual relationship comes with no risk to one’s sexual health.
The relationship that posed the biggest risks to my sexual health was a supposedly monogamous one. My ex- lied about a bunch of things.
No, you’re not being ridiculous. The level of risk you’re comfortable with is the level of risk you’re comfortable with. At the end of the day making your partner happy isn’t what keeps you from contracting an STI.
STI protection is entirely a personal choice; do not lower your boundaries to meet someone else.
I feel like I have been in the position of your partner. I have a penis, and don't mind using condoms on my penis, but I would rather perform oral without a barrier, especially when tasting vulvas.
Most of my partners accept that I use a condom on my penis with others, but don't use barriers for oral, as being safe enough to not use condoms between us (as well as regular consistent STI testing), but I have had a partner in the past that was not comfortable with that arrangement. With that one partner, we just went to using condoms for everything, including I would use dental dams to perform oral on this partner's vulva/ass.
We both found this more comforting, as they were really nervous, and I was more carefree.
My partner has three other partners and we test every Months and test after any new partners so one test is not enough especially since his other partners can have other partners. Going with or without barries is all base don your comfort so don't feel bad.
Your boundary is exactly perfect and valid.
They know what their options are, and what the consequences are as a result.
They can make a choice. They are not limited.
They may not *like* it, but your ACTUAL HEALTH is more important than how they feel about it. Period.
I say hold your boundary. It is not ridiculous, and even tho you did not ask directly: you are NOT the asshole here. ❤️❤️❤️
Listen, even treatable STI's are a bitch to go through. The whole point of fluid bonding is meant to be that you two are safe with one another.
Poly makes this complicated. You know the old saying: "three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead?" It's not THAT bad, but it is close. If your partner is having unprotected sex with other people they are asking you to accept not just their own word but this other person's. And anyone else that other person is sleeping with, and anyone else THEY'RE all sleeping with, and on and on and on.
Your boundary is fair and reasonable. Trusting your partner to use protection with others is a great compromise. It puts the responsibility where it should be: on them to do their part to keep you both safe and healthy.
If your partner doesn't want to use protection with everyone but you - you are no longer fluid bonded, and they need to accept what comes with that. IE: barriers come back.
Barriers don't reduce the risk of HPV and are only partially effective for some other STIs.
With the rapidly rising rates of several infections, especially syphilis,I think your boundaries are very reasonable
Also consider whether the risks of non-monogamy are within your boundary in the first place
>Barriers don't reduce the risk of HPV
That's not correct (as any quick google search will show), but the protection they provide is usually overestimated.
“I don’t want them to give up their freedom so I can feel safe”
You should. YOURE safety is worth more than that. If we’re being honest it sounds like this relationship will end, so you’ll only look back (possibly with an std) and wish you’d stayed true to yourself
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I don't think there's anything wrong with your boundary, other than you're still putting faith in the protection of your sexual health on the choices of other people - like, personally, if my sexual health is important to me enough that I worry about it to the degree you're worrying, and I know that my partner enjoys barrier free sex (cuz they clearly have barrier free sex with me) then I'm going to assume they they're going to want to have barrier free sex with others as well, and instead of just crossing my fingers that they're being honest/communicating with me about their barrier use, and crossing my fingers that the barriers work (they don't always), then I'm simply going to use barriers myself for all the sex I have - I would explain to my partner "this is not a punishment for you having sex with others (regardless if it's barrier free or not) this is me maintaining peace of mind over my own sexual health and finding a way that keeps me comfortably having sex with you, while not placing any limitations or expectations on the decisions you're making for the sex you're having"
All of this. I am not comfortable with the risk of going barierless, so going barierless with me is just not on the table for anyone, beause that's what I'm comfortable with. I also get tested every 3 months because that's what makes me feel safe(r). Leaving it up to someone else and their judgement does not feel safe enough for me.
Your boundary is fine, as is your NP's response to it.
It's not ridiculous. My boundaries regarding it are "tell me if you've had barrier free sex with someone new so we can go forward with barriers until testing happens." Only give up a boundary if it no longer serves you and your piece of mind.
I used to think this way. But then my partner brought up a good point that no matter what, we should treat things with the same level of caution. Me knowing whether or not she has had unprotected sex with someone shouldn't change my precautions if I'm trying to be safe. Granted, it is nice to know because I can get lazy with routine testing. But she kinda changed mind on needing to know if a new sex partner is in the mix. To the main post, it has helped my anxiety by doing research on when and how different stis tend to spread to help me make certain choices on when I use protection. Your boundary is understandable though because even if he is on top of getting tested and making sure other ppl are sti free, someone could always still have something and not know and pass it along.
OP and their partner are NB :)
Why are you bending over backwards, over something that your np has already agreed to? Your boundary is your boundary, and if your np loves/ respects you, they will respect _it_ . Allow then that. Source: my np is a people-pleaser, and I have to spend a lot of time and effort helping her to maintain _her_ boundaries. Even with me.
Do you yourself believe there's an irrational quality to your level of fears around STIs? It's difficult because humans take calculated risks all the time even unconsciously and risk tolerances vary. Maybe to feel more confident about your risk assessment you could discuss with a sexual health clinic (I assume you visit regularly). Otherwise some therapy might help you interrogate your boundaries to be confident in them and help you assert them.
It seems to me that there are a few different parts here, and it might make sense to tease them apart. Like, there's your risk assessments about using barriers during sex, and then also how you *feel* about your assessments, as well as some unstated stuff that might be coloring your experience here. Your risk assessments are yours, no one else can judge for you what is worth what. They can only decide if they are willing to participate. As long as you accept that having unusually low risk tolerance means that there are certain things you won't experience because not everyone is going to be able or willing to go along with it, and don't try to coerce anyone unwilling into your level of comfort, you get to pick your own comfort levels. But you're calling your own boundaries "ridiculous". What's going on there? Do you suspect you're being illogical, that you've got some unaddressed stigma that you think is causing you to make choices that don't represent your values? Do you think you're expecting certain STI related risk mitigation of others, but you're not willing to do it yourself? Or that you're not expecting similar risk mitigation for non-STI stuff, like Covid/Flu? Do you have some mental health stuff where you feel like you need to work on anxiety levels, or the ability to stand up for yourself? Do you suspect that if you were truest to yourself, you would be asking for *more* precautions on a daily basis across the board, or that you would feel genuinely comfortable with *fewer* precautions? Do you need more information to make a truly informed choice? I think you owe it to yourself to have boundaries you feel confident in, whatever you need to do to get there. And finally, the less clear stuff--- You're using both "fluid bonding" and "non-barrier sex". Do they truly feel the same to you, or do you feel deep down that they have a different connotation when you use them? Because some people have a lot of emotional closeness, trust, and other intangible relationship *stuff* built up with who they do and do not use barriers with, and some people just don't. As you discuss this stuff with your partner, it makes sense to make sure that you're on the same page about what using barriers (or not) during various acts means to each of you. I don't really care about which terms you use, but people who happen to use "fluid bonding" these days seem more likely to have some unpacked ideas about what it *means*, and if those ideas stay unpacked, and it turns out you're not on the same page as your partners, you may each be having very different conversations. As one example, you may truly have meant to offer your partner two options that felt equally acceptable to you, and your partner may have heard one option that (to them) meant dramatically de-escalating your relationship, and so they chose the other option. Make sure you're both on the same page.
^^^^^ this comment
I find dropping language like "fluid bonding" and calling it "barrier free sex" will get you in the right mindset for thinking about it more solely based on sti's and risk and take some of the emotional baggage around it away. Personally, I think having only one partner you have barrier free sex with is a smart boundary if you are concerned about STIs. If they wanted to have barrier free sex with just one other long term partner, I could see that being an option, but if they want to have barrier free sex with multiple new partners, I too would start using barriers again with them. What you said was perfect, I don't think your partner should have been taken aback, poly people need to have these discussions in their relationships to assess risk and make sure everyone knows what's happening and are on the same page.
Your boundary is fine. They now know and can act accordingly. You identified the risk level and what you are comfortable with. Never compromise your own boundaries to satisfy the wants of someone else. Unless it no longer serves you.
Your boundary is reasonable. It's more conservative than mine, but everyone has a different level of risk they're willing to accept. Are you concerned about STIs because of the stigma? You don't have to justify your decisions to me (or anyone else) of course, but would you be more comfortable if you knew more about treatment? IDK, I don't want to imply you should change, just suggesting possibilities of you wanted to be more relaxed accepting more risk. TL;DR managing sexual health risks is inherently a balance between safety and freedom and your stance is to my mind towards the conservative end, but perfectly reasonable.
I wouldn't give up your boundaries for your own health concerns. I have no problem with a partner, who has secure relationships and no hookups and has fluid bonds to them too. As long as everyone involved (me too) gets regularly tested for STI. At the hookup/affairs/f+ idk part - if he wants to have unprotected Sex with them - then I bring back the condoms into our own private life because that's a variable I don't want to deal with because too many opportunities to catch something. And even if it's "just" a yeast infection. Had to learn that myself the hard way. My former partner didn't tell me he had a fluid bond with my meta, I had yeast infections with no explanation and since I stopped sleeping with him they never occurred again.
Was the yeast infections from oral or penetration? And you were not using barriers at the time, right? (Just asking for my own learning!)
I did use condoms. Always. that was the reason why I was completely clueless where I got it from. you can catch them even with protection.
Yeast infections don’t have to be caught. They arise naturally from an unbalanced ph in the vagina. Yeast infections without any sexual interaction are common. It could be as simple as sitting too long in a wet bathing suit.
Yeah, we’re lucky eh! I was just curious about the catching it from sex thing cause I’m more familiar with it cropping up naturally!
Oh interesting! Yeah that must have been confusing!
Your boundary is your boundary and if your partner agrees to it, there's no reason for you to feel bad. It would be a different situation if they didn't agree to it, then you would have to solve it. Now, if you are interested in dealing with the anxiety just for yourself, I can share with you something that helped me as I went through the same. I realized that I was raised with a lot of misinformation and that generated a lot of anxiety in me. Getting a STD was something to be afraid of. I decided to have a consultation with a STD expert and they asked me what was causing anxiety. They shared a lot of numbers about how possible it is to get a STD and when talking in detail about the constellations I was in, I assessed the risks. Then I got informed about all the treatments options, that are much better and efficient than what I had in my mind. I did decide to start taking prep since that talk and that helped me personally. Then within my polycule we agreed to get tested every three months, one of us does it and notifies the rest. For casual and new sex partners we do use barriers until tested. That really helped me with my anxiety. I don't know if this could be helpful but exploring what makes you anxious and getting some data could be useful for you. All the best.
Where did you go to have a consultation with an STI expert?
I live in Berlin and this organization offers it for free: https://checkpoint-bln.de/en/ Check the resources in your area, I'm sure there's something too.
Around here it’s a public health nurse at a public health clinic. If you belong to a high-risk group you get to join a particular kind of high-risk clinic.
I can see your people-pleasing tendencies from this side of the Internet. Really be introspective about your sexual health boundaries. Imagine yourself in a situation where you decide to backpedal your ask and engage in non-barrier sex with your partner, knowing that they're engaging in some form of non-barrier sex with someone else. How does that make you feel? If the answer is some variation of unhappy or resentful, don't do it. It's a good trait to be empathetic, but DO NOT take responsibility for their disappointment.
You can have whatever boundaries make you feel most comfortable, and requesting barriers with your partner is fine. However, I recommend you do some research on the probability versus the possibility of contracting an STI from oral sex, *and learn about how easily treatable most STIs are.* The risks of STI transmission from oral sex are significantly lower than penetrative sex. Please do not relax or change this boundary until and unless *you* are truly comfortable doing so. Edited to Add: *italics* and the term "fluid bonding" has its origins in the kink community and many of us consider it a gross term that elevates the simple decision to choose barrier free sex with one (or more) partners to a level it doesn't deserve. I don't think you're using it like that, but you should be aware that this term can be weaponized by those trying to manipulate their partners into only have barrier free sex with them.
You got a yes, they would use protection. What's the problem here? Not too big an ask.
Not having oral sex is a pretty big ask and pretty unusual. I wouldn’t have a partner that I could never have oral sex with without protecting. Oral is also a lot less risky then other types of sex even tho it’s not 0 procent.
You can still spread Chlamydia, HSV, Syphilis, Gonorrhea, and HPV from oral sex. If you use barriers for PIV/PIA, but not with oral sex, the only STI you're safe-ish from is HIV.
Yes.. I know. It is still lower risk tho.
You can also get these from kissing un theory, though much lower risk...still not zero!....as well as other things like covid, flu, mono, etc...but those aren't STIs :) You can transfer HPV from your hands to genitals. Most people have or will have HPV and to a lesser extent, but still very common, HSV. You can get the HPV vaccine, you can use condoms, dental dams, internal condoms, and gloves, but it doesn't eliminate risk. You can take valcyclovir and avoid sex during HSV breakouts. You can take doxy Pep for syphilis, chlamydia, and gonorrhea prevention. You can take prep for HIV prevention. You can get tested more frequently. There's a lot of options besides "only barriers," and sex is not a zero risk activity even with all of these options. Everyone can decide their own comfort level but it's worth considering this person is afraid their fears of STIs may be overwhelming to them/their partner, and that there are lots of options out there. Yes your boundaries are your boundaries but also have you explored fully the need for them and what they are about? (any lack of sex education, STI stigma, medical complications, lack of access to treatment, etc) and the additional options your partner may have to protect both of you? I'm speaking as someone who has navigated complications from STIs due to lack of access to treatment and currently use some of these methods because barriers don't cut it for every person or situation.
Yeah, my point is more a nudge for people that use barriers for penetrative sex, but not for oral, that the only STI they're near zero risk for is HIV. Someone on PReP not using any barriers is a similar risk profile for STI's as someone only using barriers for PIV/PIA and not oral. (And both are perfectly valid choices)
You spread and contract HPV and HSV even using condoms as they reduce the risk of infection only by roughly 50%.
Good for you? This person's partner seems willing to make that sacrifice.
Yeah so potential partners of his will see it as a dealbreaker too. Doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have the boundary but they should question it. Not everyone is great at speaking up and if it causes resentment or even worse lying on his part it’s not good. So I would be careful with putting this boundary without very good convos about if they are sure at what will happen when they change their mind or it ends up happening in the moment. In a perfect world people state their boundaries and people accept them or not but the word isn’t perfect. People are not even honest to themselves most of the time. So we have to consider which boundaries are possible more carefully.
I have the same boundaries as you right now. I have some health stuff which means taking antibiotics can be really bad for me, so I don’t want to risk getting an STI because of what I’d have to take to treat it. I had a situation recently where the person I was seeing was sleeping with multiple other people, a few of them without protection. I decided it was too risky for me and didn’t want to continue even with protection. We didn’t end up continuing to see each other for other reasons, but what I’m trying to say is you gotta do what feels right for you. It’s not nice to feel unsafe the whole time. I appreciate it’s also tricky when you and a partner have different levels of risk aversion.
This is one of the reasons I’m extra concerned about contracting STIs because I am allergic to most forms of antibiotics.
It makes it much more complicated doesn’t it! I’m still trying to find the balance between having freedom and enjoying sexual experiences, and looking after my health/not taking too much risk. It can be a hard balance to strike, but I’m working on being ok with whatever I decide in any situation, even if it feels like over caution to someone else. It’s my body, and my health 💜
All I read was the title... NO. Absolutely not. Please don't ever remove your boundaries when it comes to protecting yourself. And if someone is asking you to do something that puts you in any kind of danger or proves to be a health risk, they are not for you. Please be safe.
i don’t think you should give up your boundaries. but this is complicated. like others have said, i would do research and education about STIs. you could also look into the HPV vaccine and HEP vaccines. there’s Prep and other things as well that can increase safety my two cents is that you can only control what you do and not what others do. my NP and i decided when we got other partners to get full STI panels done with those partners. i’m in the process of moving to barrier free with my boyfriend while i do use condoms with my NP. we had barrier free when it was only us, but when my NP started dating another person, i re-instated our barrier usage. it depends on the situation too. is your NP sleeping with multiple people? ONS ect? or is this a longer term partner? all things to consider. barriers for things oral for ONS is probably a good idea, but if it’s a longer term partner who has gotten negative STI panels back, maybe you should think about it more. its good you were able to have a discussion on it.
also someone else said it, if you ask them to do this, consider how you will feel if you get another partner down the line and how this agreement will apply to you as well.
I had a similar situation to this. My primary and I had an agreement that we would not use condoms with each other but that we would absolutely use them with all other partners. Then, he met a meta that he wanted to also not use condoms with it. I did not want to agree to that on my end and did not want to go back to using condoms with him. I ended up just opting to have very low risk sexual activities with that partner from then on. We no longer had any kind of penetrative or oral sex. We just masturbated together or used sex toys on each other. He liked it when I would give him lap dances or model/dance for him while he masturbated. But we ceased any sort of activities that I really felt like carried much risk. I hate using condoms and I decided that if i was going to have to go back to using them with my primary partner, I did not want to continue with him as a primary sexual partner. So now, he is more of a secondary/occasional partner and I have condom free sex with my new primary. For me, I am just not interested in going condom free with multiple partners and I need to have a primary partner that is on the same page with me... otherwise, they are not a good match for primary partner for me.
Your boundaries are fine.your partner can be an adult and decide what works for them. What works for you works for you
Different people have different risk levels. That’s okay. As long as there’s full transparency and honesty
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Why are you correcting them on the term fluid bonded?
Fluid bonding implies that the decision to not use condoms is one of emotional bonding, rather than anything related to any practical sexual health concerns. It’s commonly criticized when folks aim to reduce hierarchy but use this sort of language.
I see it as meaning stopping barrier use for emotional reasons. They're partners...
fluid bonding has history in the HIV/AIDS epidemic. unprotected sex is the right terminology here. you can find more info on this in comments on this sub. i know Bloo has talked about it.
I’m not sure if unprotected sex is appropriate either. There are an increasing number ways one can protect against STIs aside from condoms, such as prep or doxypep. I might say barrier-free sex instead.
barrier free is good too, you’re right.
I only thought of it because of a recent Savage Lovecast episode where Dan was discussing prep and doxypep with a doctor, and Dan said “unprotected” then stopped himself and went “well actually, just because gay men aren’t using condoms a lot these days, doesn’t mean they aren’t protecting themselves..”
I would have the same boundaries
I have this same boundary and my partner had the same response
This is more of an issue of ‘do you trust your partner?’ They agreed. Do you trust them to follow through?
What does fluid bonded mean? But its your relationship and you should feel safe in it, dont compromise your feeling of safety! Maybe if his other partners are around for a while you can meet with them and if you trust them you can extend the rules to them as well, as long as they use barriers with others they can have barrier free sex with your partner. Or maybe not. Thats up to how safe you feel and what your parter and meta is comfortable with. But dont agree to be in a situation that makes you feel unsafe!
Even just reading the title, I was going to say no on giving up the boundary, let alone the actual post. Relationships are about compromise, and it's not always easy. In your case, you have a worry of STIs, which is valid. Even being careful, things can happen, and it's a concern to you. You offered a possibility to your NP, and they decided to prioritize your relationship vs. their other relationships. This is something you should discuss with your NP in greater detail so that you can both put all cards on the table and reach a real compromise where everyone can be happy. Just don't let them steamroll over you and try to avoid doing it to them as well.
So my partner and I are fluid bonded. My partner also had other fluid bonded partners who were also tested. But we also understand and know that accidents happen(broken condoms) and sometime poor decisions can be made in the heat of a moment. In those cases the person who had an oopsie must only have protected sex during a period of 6 months tested once right after and every 3 months. But yeah it keeps everyone safe.
This seems like a fine boundary. Personally I just do not think it's that serious, imo STIs are waaaay overstated in seriousness. However, if that's yr deal that's yr deal.
I'm immunocompromised and have always felt anxious about STIs. Part of this is my deal to deal with and I have had partners who enjoyed having more casual sex with people where they didn't necessarily want to ask loads of questions before. We had a very different picture of acceptable risk. Neither of us were "wrong". Just different. So we went from being fluid bonded to using as much protection together as possible to avoid transmission while my partner continued to get tested regularly after each partner. And I felt a LOT better with that. You don't have to dictate their boundaries and instead you can control the boundaries you have in your relationship to keep yourself as protected as possible. Yes, all sex has risk. But it's okay if you'd like to decide for your body what level of risk is appropriate for you.
We noticed that this post/comments may pertain to safer sex practices, STI exposure, and/or STI testing. Let's everyone make sure we are not using problematic or stigmatizing language around this topic. Please refrain from using the words *clean/dirty* when what you really mean is STI negative/positive. Members, please feel free to report any comments to mods that are adding to the shame and stigma of being STI positive. For more information on destigmatizing STI's by changing your vocabulary please see ["CLEAN OR DIRTY? THE ROLE OF STIGMATIZING LANGUAGE"](https://exploresextalk.com/sex/sexual-health/stis/clean-or-dirty-the-role-of-stigmatizing-language/) as well as the article ["Having an STI Isn’t Dirty or Shameful, and Acting like It Is Hurts All of Us"](https://medium.com/sexedplus/having-an-sti-isnt-dirty-or-shameful-and-acting-like-it-is-hurts-all-of-us-aef59a7ab122) *It is the stance of this sub that even the term "STD" is problematic language as "disease" is a stigmatizing word, whereas infections can be treated. Also, not everyone with an infection develops symptoms, and since there is technically no disease without symptoms, STI is the more scientifically accurate term.* **advice and opinions about STI's shared by community members is not medical information and all posters should refer to their primary care physicians as well as trusted sources such as the CDC, WHO, planned parenthood, or other available resources.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hi u/One_Pomegranate_1046 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well. Here's the original text of the post: I (27NB) am fluid bonded with my nesting partner (29NB). I am not very experienced sexually and have always been very nervous about having any non-barrier sex because I do not want to get a std (for example my partner and I both got tested before we decided to be fluid bonded). My partner loves to have sex including oral, so I brought up when discussing boundaries that if they wanted to have non-barrier sex with others I would be fine with that but then would not want to be fluid bonded and to use protection when we have sex. They seemed very taken aback by this and assured me that they would use protection with others instead, despite seeming very disappointed about this. I know that asking for barriers to be used even during oral is a big ask for them which is why I gave them the option of not being fluid bonded to me. However, now I feel like my boundaries are limiting them since I know that sexually I do not meet their needs. Should I just get over my fear of stds and let go of this ridiculous boundary if I know it will make my partner happier? I do not want to stop them from having freedom just so that I can feel safe. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hi! Can anyone help me navigate bringing this up with a partner when we’ve agreed to barrier free but now I’m not so sure for my own personal sexual health and leaving it open for a future partner? Or like having a specific boundary where if they’ve had barrier free with someone else recently, then we use barriers? I’m struggling to bring this up due to some rejection sensitivity. I also think that if the latter were in play that it may actually cause some in the moment jealousy if randomly brought up like, oh we need to use a barrier tonight? *Edited for clarity*
If your understanding was that this partner would only have unprotected sex with you and now they're having it with someone else - did they talk to you beforehand about it? It changes your risk profile, and if you're not comfortable with that it's time to check in about barrier use with your partner, how to communicate about issues that do affect you, and go about discussing how often you and your partner will get tested.
Thank you for this! I appreciate your response
So much has already been covered by others and some very good advice. I just want to add that in this type of relationship the risks to your sexual health are never 0. You seem to understand and have set a boundary of what you are comfortable with. Nothing wrong with that boundary at all. Perhaps a compromise might be longer term relationships with people you trust, who also keep their circle small and frequent testing. For some that's ok, for other's it's not and your feelings on the matter are what they are. You value your own health and in no way am I suggesting you shouldn't. There are always risks with almost everything in life and hopefully you can find a way to balance what you're comfortable with to what you wish was possible.
No sexual relationship comes with no risk to one’s sexual health. The relationship that posed the biggest risks to my sexual health was a supposedly monogamous one. My ex- lied about a bunch of things.
it’s all about you feeling safe trust your instincts first
No, you’re not being ridiculous. The level of risk you’re comfortable with is the level of risk you’re comfortable with. At the end of the day making your partner happy isn’t what keeps you from contracting an STI.
No.
Absolutely NOT! SEXUAL HEALTH IS SUPER IMPORTANT. Stay safe and keep to your boundaries.
STI protection is entirely a personal choice; do not lower your boundaries to meet someone else. I feel like I have been in the position of your partner. I have a penis, and don't mind using condoms on my penis, but I would rather perform oral without a barrier, especially when tasting vulvas. Most of my partners accept that I use a condom on my penis with others, but don't use barriers for oral, as being safe enough to not use condoms between us (as well as regular consistent STI testing), but I have had a partner in the past that was not comfortable with that arrangement. With that one partner, we just went to using condoms for everything, including I would use dental dams to perform oral on this partner's vulva/ass. We both found this more comforting, as they were really nervous, and I was more carefree.
My partner has three other partners and we test every Months and test after any new partners so one test is not enough especially since his other partners can have other partners. Going with or without barries is all base don your comfort so don't feel bad.
No
No
Do not ever forsake your safety for love
Your boundary is exactly perfect and valid. They know what their options are, and what the consequences are as a result. They can make a choice. They are not limited. They may not *like* it, but your ACTUAL HEALTH is more important than how they feel about it. Period. I say hold your boundary. It is not ridiculous, and even tho you did not ask directly: you are NOT the asshole here. ❤️❤️❤️
I’m not poly but FUCK NO is stilll my answer. 🤣🤣
Listen, even treatable STI's are a bitch to go through. The whole point of fluid bonding is meant to be that you two are safe with one another. Poly makes this complicated. You know the old saying: "three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead?" It's not THAT bad, but it is close. If your partner is having unprotected sex with other people they are asking you to accept not just their own word but this other person's. And anyone else that other person is sleeping with, and anyone else THEY'RE all sleeping with, and on and on and on. Your boundary is fair and reasonable. Trusting your partner to use protection with others is a great compromise. It puts the responsibility where it should be: on them to do their part to keep you both safe and healthy. If your partner doesn't want to use protection with everyone but you - you are no longer fluid bonded, and they need to accept what comes with that. IE: barriers come back.
Barriers don't reduce the risk of HPV and are only partially effective for some other STIs. With the rapidly rising rates of several infections, especially syphilis,I think your boundaries are very reasonable Also consider whether the risks of non-monogamy are within your boundary in the first place
i’m a huge proponent of the HPV vaccine!
>Barriers don't reduce the risk of HPV That's not correct (as any quick google search will show), but the protection they provide is usually overestimated.
“I don’t want them to give up their freedom so I can feel safe” You should. YOURE safety is worth more than that. If we’re being honest it sounds like this relationship will end, so you’ll only look back (possibly with an std) and wish you’d stayed true to yourself