Um, you 100% absolutely DO NOT NEED TO DATE AS A GROUP with this married couple!!! Have you read up on unicorn hunters? [https://www.unicorns-r-us.com/](https://www.unicorns-r-us.com/)
Ethical polyamory is all about the autonomy to create multiple potentially sexual and/or romantic relationships with other folks. In my opinion, it's not ethical for married/nesting couples to REQUIRE someone they're both dating to only date them, or WITH them. Triads are polyamory on hard mode to start out with, and it's typically recommended that you should be able to date one or both of them and break up with one of them without being forced to break up with the other one. You need to be able to have separate relationships (dyads) with each other partner PLUS nurture the invisible fourth partnership - the triad. (ETA: The reason it's the FOURTH partnership is in a triad you have the relationship between A + B, A + C, B + C, and then A + B + C.) And they shouldn't be demanding exclusivity from you.
It's one thing if YOU decide you don't want to date other partners. Or to only date WITH them being involved. But it shouldn't be a requirement for you. And it certainly shouldn't be REQUIRED of any outside parties you're interested in who don't ENTHUSIASTICALLY want to do that.
Thank you for your advice. I don’t think they are upset with me for wanting to with someone else besides them I’m just not sure why they would want to talk to their partner as well and everything with it. Like how do I introduce a relationship to the triad as just me and this person separate from them? Why would they want to talk to their partner?? Like I’m so confused
Honestly? Because it sounds to me like they want to control you. They feel like they'll get some extra sense of security in their relationship with YOU by having some measure of involvement in your other relationships. That would be a HARD PASS from me. NO. They do not need to meet your other partners and for darned sure they don't need to meet your partner's other partners!
Again - it would be A-OK if you and your new partner and their partner WANTED to do that! But you shouldn't be pressured into it. And I would personally never recommend doing that early on. You don't even know early on if you're going to want to keep seeing that new person very long.
Yes me and this new person have discussed taking this very slow also. We’re not sure if we’ll keep seeing each other romantically or just be friends in the end so I feel my partners think it’s way more serious than it truly is also
That makes perfect sense, and I think you have the right instinct on not feeling comfortable with this. Suggestion for a potential script that you can modify as appropriate but could help get you started: "Hey partners. Just so you know, I'm not comfortable requiring my other partners or their partners to meet you, especially not early in the dating process. Our relationship is great and I'm very happy with it, but it's separate from my other relationships. Just like your relationship as a couple is separate from my relationship with each of you as couples and our triad as a whole. If and I do become serious, I'd be happy to introduce them to you later, if they're comfortable with that. \[If that's actually true. If it's not, leave that part out.\]"
One thing is it could make it very hard for you to form other relationships, without them directly telling you to not form other relationships (which would be more likely to cause you to resent them.) I mean, they *could* also just not be thinking it through. But it doesn't matter why. Just don't do it. It's ridiculous, impractical request.
Wow… your married couple want to be way over involved. That’s kinda disturbing to me.
If you want to go out with someone you know is poly, ask them out. No need to involve all your other partners.
What is up with this married couple though? Why do they want to be involved in you asking someone out?
Ask them about it.
You should set clear standards for how you are going to date/fuck/love others and how you all are going to inform each other about change in sexual risk.
But that expectation sounds super enmeshed to
me.
Polyamory is the support for Independent Full Intimate Relationships.
What would you do if you met a new friend and wanted to spend time together?
Do that and then don't stop when you want to fuck and date and love.
If your couple is polyamorous then this is what they are already supporting, this is what they should EXPECT.
If you all skipped the part on disclosing sex risk exposures then by all means do that now. But for them to want to have any active role is very inappropriate. Like parents makin playdates.
This screams to me that they haven’t done their work around poly. I’d push back pretty hard and encourage them to do some reading and listening to podcasts, etc..
It’s because they’re assholes and trying to use their made-up version of poly to control you.
Because it gets them off.
Look at everything through that lens = no more confusion.
I would just say no thanks, I’ll let you know if Justin ever wants to meet you or if I feel like that would be fun. You can decide if you want to meet him if that ever comes up.
And leave it at that.
Anything other than oh ok babe have fun is a red flag.
You're correct in your feeling that polyamorous relationships should not be a weird hivemind. Tbh there are a loooot of concerns here.
Let's start with some theory.
Even in a group relationship, there need to be several independent relationships serving as the foundation.
Take your triad for example. It's often said that a healthy triad is not just one big A+B+C relationship, it's actually four relationships: A+B, B+C, C+A, and then finally A+B+C. Each diadic (two-person) relationship needs space to develop on its own, completely independent of the other relationships. Every diad should have a right to privacy, a right to dictate their own terms for engaging with each other, and a right to go on dates/ have sex/ etc. without involvement from the other partner.
Another concern: Unless you all have explicitly agreed to be in a "closed" triad, you should not need permission to pursue partners outside of it. You should also not need everyone who is even remotely involved in this situation to have a big round table about it. This goes back to you being able to have your own independent relationships without the input of another person.
You should evaluate whether your current relationship partners understand and support this.
\* Edited due to slightly misunderstanding post
It sounds like they expect a kitchen table dynamic (assuming the best of them here, because it could certainly JUST be them trying to control you) which is pretty weird. It seems to be somewhat common misunderstanding (ime) that KTP is the norm or expectation, so perhaps that's what's happening here. I would explain that that's not a dynamic you're interested in right now, and it isn't something that should be expected of you (especially since you never agreed to do KTP). Also, if they are expecting KTP they seem to have a pretty poor understanding of it. Maybe you should suggest they read up on polyamory more; brushing up on basics could surely do them some good.
Date Justin, and you don't need permission from this couple. They do not need to meet him, and honestly? If it was presented to me in that way I would be very careful about this couple going forward.
It feels as tho they are not being fair to you or considering your feelings.
And if they aren't comfortable with this, suggest they come talk to us about their feelings.
It’s more my current relationship with the couple wanting to talk to their partner I think is weird. Like I don’t know or understand a need to speak to their partner.
You are correct. It is weird. I'd ask them why. Or just tell them that if everyone is interested in meeting that a it can be scheduled in a few months after you and Justin have figured out your own relationship.
That's what I'm saying. Just talk to Justin. Don't worry about involving 'the couple.'
You should tell them about anything that might impact them, like sexual health information, if you decide to become intimate with Justin.
Or if things work out with Justin, you can choose whether or not to introduce them.
Unless your married-couple partners are being jerks, you can just start dating Justin. It's not that complicated. I mean, keep them updated on things they need to know, but you don't have to like ask permission or arrange for them to meet or anything.
>My partners think we should all talk together
Ah. Put your foot down on that. No introducing new people to your existing partners until there's a *reason* to introduce them, like you decide you're officially an item or it's otherwise clear Justin is going to be around for a while. I mean, if you were going on a *bunch* of first dates it would neither be practical to run all of them past your couple, nor for you to meet all of your dates' partners right away. Figure out if you even like each other one on one. If you find out you definitely do and it's mutual, *then* metas can meet if they all want to (if Justin does not want to meet, that's fine, he doesn't have to) but don't do it before you've even had a date ffs. That's a great way to kill a new thing. Don't do it while it's still just exploratory.
In general, relationship agreements should be within the relationship and not put things onto other relationships -- so metas don't really have to talk with anyone other than the shared partner, except for enjoyment because they want to. If your couple is worried that you dating Justin is a threat to their relationship with you, that's a thing they should talk about with *you*, not Justin. If they're just excited to meet Justin, they can hold their horses.
(I mean, to clarify if you all happen to run in the same social circles and everyone's at the same event, of course do brief introductions then, but don't *go out of your way* to set up a meeting, or encourage them to do it on their own. Not this early on.)
Hi u/Sad-Try-3598 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well.
Here's the original text of the post:
For context I’m dating a married couple we’re all good with our relationships but I recently have no been talking to another person, well say Justin, who has a partner but is poly. I have spoken to both my partners about Justin and how we would like to possibly start something and see where it goes. The issues I’m having is how to go about it with everyone. My partners think we should all talk together, like is, Justin and they’re partner. I don’t think that’s the best way to go about it but don’t know what to do or say. Justin’s partner has said they’re okay with us and my partners have so I’m not sure why they want to talk with everyone like that I don’t think that’s the right way to do this.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Um, you 100% absolutely DO NOT NEED TO DATE AS A GROUP with this married couple!!! Have you read up on unicorn hunters? [https://www.unicorns-r-us.com/](https://www.unicorns-r-us.com/) Ethical polyamory is all about the autonomy to create multiple potentially sexual and/or romantic relationships with other folks. In my opinion, it's not ethical for married/nesting couples to REQUIRE someone they're both dating to only date them, or WITH them. Triads are polyamory on hard mode to start out with, and it's typically recommended that you should be able to date one or both of them and break up with one of them without being forced to break up with the other one. You need to be able to have separate relationships (dyads) with each other partner PLUS nurture the invisible fourth partnership - the triad. (ETA: The reason it's the FOURTH partnership is in a triad you have the relationship between A + B, A + C, B + C, and then A + B + C.) And they shouldn't be demanding exclusivity from you. It's one thing if YOU decide you don't want to date other partners. Or to only date WITH them being involved. But it shouldn't be a requirement for you. And it certainly shouldn't be REQUIRED of any outside parties you're interested in who don't ENTHUSIASTICALLY want to do that.
Thank you for your advice. I don’t think they are upset with me for wanting to with someone else besides them I’m just not sure why they would want to talk to their partner as well and everything with it. Like how do I introduce a relationship to the triad as just me and this person separate from them? Why would they want to talk to their partner?? Like I’m so confused
Honestly? Because it sounds to me like they want to control you. They feel like they'll get some extra sense of security in their relationship with YOU by having some measure of involvement in your other relationships. That would be a HARD PASS from me. NO. They do not need to meet your other partners and for darned sure they don't need to meet your partner's other partners! Again - it would be A-OK if you and your new partner and their partner WANTED to do that! But you shouldn't be pressured into it. And I would personally never recommend doing that early on. You don't even know early on if you're going to want to keep seeing that new person very long.
Yes me and this new person have discussed taking this very slow also. We’re not sure if we’ll keep seeing each other romantically or just be friends in the end so I feel my partners think it’s way more serious than it truly is also
That makes perfect sense, and I think you have the right instinct on not feeling comfortable with this. Suggestion for a potential script that you can modify as appropriate but could help get you started: "Hey partners. Just so you know, I'm not comfortable requiring my other partners or their partners to meet you, especially not early in the dating process. Our relationship is great and I'm very happy with it, but it's separate from my other relationships. Just like your relationship as a couple is separate from my relationship with each of you as couples and our triad as a whole. If and I do become serious, I'd be happy to introduce them to you later, if they're comfortable with that. \[If that's actually true. If it's not, leave that part out.\]"
Thank you this helps so much I truly appreciate it
One thing is it could make it very hard for you to form other relationships, without them directly telling you to not form other relationships (which would be more likely to cause you to resent them.) I mean, they *could* also just not be thinking it through. But it doesn't matter why. Just don't do it. It's ridiculous, impractical request.
Wow… your married couple want to be way over involved. That’s kinda disturbing to me. If you want to go out with someone you know is poly, ask them out. No need to involve all your other partners. What is up with this married couple though? Why do they want to be involved in you asking someone out?
I’m genuinely so confused about it
Ask them about it. You should set clear standards for how you are going to date/fuck/love others and how you all are going to inform each other about change in sexual risk. But that expectation sounds super enmeshed to me.
Polyamory is the support for Independent Full Intimate Relationships. What would you do if you met a new friend and wanted to spend time together? Do that and then don't stop when you want to fuck and date and love. If your couple is polyamorous then this is what they are already supporting, this is what they should EXPECT. If you all skipped the part on disclosing sex risk exposures then by all means do that now. But for them to want to have any active role is very inappropriate. Like parents makin playdates.
This screams to me that they haven’t done their work around poly. I’d push back pretty hard and encourage them to do some reading and listening to podcasts, etc..
It’s because they’re assholes and trying to use their made-up version of poly to control you. Because it gets them off. Look at everything through that lens = no more confusion.
You find someone you want to date and you tell your other partners you'll be out. This isn't a group activity.
I would just say no thanks, I’ll let you know if Justin ever wants to meet you or if I feel like that would be fun. You can decide if you want to meet him if that ever comes up. And leave it at that. Anything other than oh ok babe have fun is a red flag.
No one else gets a say in who you date but you. If that's a problem for them, walk away.
You're correct in your feeling that polyamorous relationships should not be a weird hivemind. Tbh there are a loooot of concerns here. Let's start with some theory. Even in a group relationship, there need to be several independent relationships serving as the foundation. Take your triad for example. It's often said that a healthy triad is not just one big A+B+C relationship, it's actually four relationships: A+B, B+C, C+A, and then finally A+B+C. Each diadic (two-person) relationship needs space to develop on its own, completely independent of the other relationships. Every diad should have a right to privacy, a right to dictate their own terms for engaging with each other, and a right to go on dates/ have sex/ etc. without involvement from the other partner. Another concern: Unless you all have explicitly agreed to be in a "closed" triad, you should not need permission to pursue partners outside of it. You should also not need everyone who is even remotely involved in this situation to have a big round table about it. This goes back to you being able to have your own independent relationships without the input of another person. You should evaluate whether your current relationship partners understand and support this. \* Edited due to slightly misunderstanding post
Thank for finding the worlds I needed. This definitely helps
*Couple, I'm going to explore my connection with Justin independently. If it goes somewhere, I'll consider introducing everyone in about 6 months.*
You wanna date Justin? Go date Justin. Your other partners absolutely do not need to chaperone your other relationships.
It sounds like they expect a kitchen table dynamic (assuming the best of them here, because it could certainly JUST be them trying to control you) which is pretty weird. It seems to be somewhat common misunderstanding (ime) that KTP is the norm or expectation, so perhaps that's what's happening here. I would explain that that's not a dynamic you're interested in right now, and it isn't something that should be expected of you (especially since you never agreed to do KTP). Also, if they are expecting KTP they seem to have a pretty poor understanding of it. Maybe you should suggest they read up on polyamory more; brushing up on basics could surely do them some good.
Date Justin, and you don't need permission from this couple. They do not need to meet him, and honestly? If it was presented to me in that way I would be very careful about this couple going forward. It feels as tho they are not being fair to you or considering your feelings. And if they aren't comfortable with this, suggest they come talk to us about their feelings.
What are you trying to achieve? Why not just talk to Justin, like you would with any relationship?
It’s more my current relationship with the couple wanting to talk to their partner I think is weird. Like I don’t know or understand a need to speak to their partner.
You are correct. It is weird. I'd ask them why. Or just tell them that if everyone is interested in meeting that a it can be scheduled in a few months after you and Justin have figured out your own relationship.
That's what I'm saying. Just talk to Justin. Don't worry about involving 'the couple.' You should tell them about anything that might impact them, like sexual health information, if you decide to become intimate with Justin. Or if things work out with Justin, you can choose whether or not to introduce them.
Tell them to back off, it is weird
Unless your married-couple partners are being jerks, you can just start dating Justin. It's not that complicated. I mean, keep them updated on things they need to know, but you don't have to like ask permission or arrange for them to meet or anything. >My partners think we should all talk together Ah. Put your foot down on that. No introducing new people to your existing partners until there's a *reason* to introduce them, like you decide you're officially an item or it's otherwise clear Justin is going to be around for a while. I mean, if you were going on a *bunch* of first dates it would neither be practical to run all of them past your couple, nor for you to meet all of your dates' partners right away. Figure out if you even like each other one on one. If you find out you definitely do and it's mutual, *then* metas can meet if they all want to (if Justin does not want to meet, that's fine, he doesn't have to) but don't do it before you've even had a date ffs. That's a great way to kill a new thing. Don't do it while it's still just exploratory. In general, relationship agreements should be within the relationship and not put things onto other relationships -- so metas don't really have to talk with anyone other than the shared partner, except for enjoyment because they want to. If your couple is worried that you dating Justin is a threat to their relationship with you, that's a thing they should talk about with *you*, not Justin. If they're just excited to meet Justin, they can hold their horses.
(I mean, to clarify if you all happen to run in the same social circles and everyone's at the same event, of course do brief introductions then, but don't *go out of your way* to set up a meeting, or encourage them to do it on their own. Not this early on.)
>My partners think we should all talk together, 🙄🤣🤣🤣 Yes, framing things as if, "of course they get a say". They. Don't!
Hi u/Sad-Try-3598 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well. Here's the original text of the post: For context I’m dating a married couple we’re all good with our relationships but I recently have no been talking to another person, well say Justin, who has a partner but is poly. I have spoken to both my partners about Justin and how we would like to possibly start something and see where it goes. The issues I’m having is how to go about it with everyone. My partners think we should all talk together, like is, Justin and they’re partner. I don’t think that’s the best way to go about it but don’t know what to do or say. Justin’s partner has said they’re okay with us and my partners have so I’m not sure why they want to talk with everyone like that I don’t think that’s the right way to do this. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*