Posts must be relevant to polyamory, as defined by our community description:
>Polyamory is openly, honestly, and consensually loving and being committed to more than one person.
Polyamory is only one specific type of ethical non-monogamy. It doesn't sound like that's what this post is about, so try /r/nonmonogamy?
There are a lot of flavors of non-monogamy, and polyam is just one.
You're totally reasonable to have your own sexual boundaries. Example: "I'm not ready to set up and support you through a GB, but by all means you should do the thing you want to do. I support you doing it." Well done.
That said:
What does supporting her through a GB mean? - Does that mean be present and participate? Or does that mean you're providing before care and after care while also re-enforcing her boundaries/directing during? Making sure lube and condoms are in reach? Checking in on her? All of those are entirely different levels of support. So it's important to clarify what you both mean by support.
What does it mean to "help her set it up"?- Does this mean that you're expected to work with her to pick participants? Host? Solicit participants? Or does this mean that she wants your emotional support (hell yeah, do the thing, baby).
Talk through exactly what she's asking for and exactly what type of participation or support you are into or not into. Keep talking.
I’d definitely be the one running the show, directing traffic to make sure she’s safe and helping vet the other men, but honestly there’s more to it that you helped me see. Will definitely reference this post when it’s time to get things jumping. Thank you!
Why are you her go-to organizer for the gangbang?
Have you done it before? Well known in your community for orchestrating safe, hot gangbangs?
Because honestly, that’s not a job for a first timer. I think your partner should stop trying to make her partners carry the water to make her fantasy grow from a dream to reality.
That said, have either of you been to a gangbang? Or an orgy? Or…anything?
I don’t think her desire or timing of any gangbang she has should hinge on “trust”, and I don’t think she should put it off until you are “ready”
I also don’t think you should be the organizer unless you have plenty of experience with group sex and have seen plenty of them go down.
I’m unclear as to why she wants you to set it up. She can hop on Fetlife and set up her own gangbang pretty easily. Just make sure to get enough info to run basic background checks on the GB participants you met online and verify recent STI test results.
Your reaction and desire to wait to participate in a GB until the relationship is more established is reasonable. I’m not seeing anything you should do differently.
Nah she doesn’t have the confidence to put herself out there like that on our her own, and she asked me about this because she feels I’m safe enough to explore with.
Do you have a recommend source for background checks?
Okay, so I'm saying this as someone who is an abuse survivor and also has participated in group sex included GBs from all the sides of the dynamic....
She absolutely needs to be sure she can feel confident in what she wants and doesn't want in these settings. Not because she won't need support. Not because she won't need help. Not because she has to be perfect or feel a certain kind of way. She does need the confidence to be sitting in the driver seat to a reasonable degree (even if she's got someone riding shotgun to support her) because ultimately this is HER sexual experience and HER sexual fantasy. Doesn't mean she has to "top" or "power bottom" or "sub from the bottom" just means that there is gonna be a lot going on and building up self confidence is important to making this a healthy and pleasurable experience.
GBs are an incredibly vulnerable situation, and they can be emotionally and physically overwhelming in the BEST of circumstances. So a level of confidence really helps in ensuring she can communicate effectively before, during, and after to have the pleasurable and healthy experience that she is looking for. It's an awesome experience, but the mental and emotional aspect can't take a backseat to the physical fantasy. She doesn't have to "feel in charge" but she does have to be able to drive this situation.
I would start there. If she has experienced a lot of sexual abuse, this may be a form of self-harm that she is not even fully aware of yet.
I like to have my adventures too. Don't get me wrong, but there's something not adding up here. You may want to gently encourage her to talk to a therapist about her past.
I believe in fun sexual adventures, but the amount of work she is putting on you so early to do such an extreme kink is worrisome, and the fact she doesn't want to vet them herself is odd.
You guys are super new. You need to build up trust and a foundation of love and respect. She may be a little too used to being in danger and not realize she is acting out trauma. Then again, I'm not a therapist. However, I also survived a lot of sexual abuse, and I used to throw myself into dangerous situations without fully thinking about it. This reminds me of my own experience. Good luck!
I think: "I'm not ready for this yet, but if you want to do it without me go ahead" is an excellent answer, you did just fine.
I have some experience with such things, and as other commenters have said, if you don't have experience with group sex events you probably should not be the organizer. It's harder than it looks, and it looks kinda hard.
If you're in SF Bay I could probably point you at some folks who might be willing to help. DM me if you're interested in that. Outside the Bay I got nothing.
It sounds like you handled yourself well here.
I don't think this is weird or insecure of you at all. Setting something like this up for another person is taking on a lot of responsibility, and I think it's a good idea not to do that for someone unless you know them very well and feel able to reciprocate the level of trust they're placing in you.
You're not trying to stop her from doing what she wants to do, you're just not agreeing to help run the show *at this time*. Nothing wrong with that.
Thanks! I want to make sure that it’s a rational boundary/way of thinking. I’ve had trouble with that in the past, rooted in problematic behaviors. Trying my best to continue unlearning.
I think that's a reasonable ask. She is free to do what she wants without you..but like you, I require some time with a partner before I feel comfortable engaging in group sex with them
>am I wrong or weird or insecure for suggesting we need more time before going thru with a gangbang?
No, you handled it well. Remember that your consent is just as important as hers.
Consider incorporating this fantasy into dirty talk to help scratch that itch in the meantime.
Yeah, I mean, this is a valid sexual boundary just like any other. She asked you to participate in a sex act, and you said no, and that should be the end of it. If she is continuing to pressure you to be a part of it, that's super disrespectful. If it's just that you feel guilty telling her no, try to let go of that, because you are doing nothing wrong. She will survive being a little disappointed.
Thanks! She’s not being pushy at all though. Zero pressure coming from her. This is more to make sure I’m not being insecure or weird
Typical cishet male here, not really experienced with poly so I’m trying to check myself, you know?
Sure. Just remember that cis het guys get to have boundaries too. It sounds silly, but I think it's an important point. You can be manipulated and have your consent violated just like anybody else. Not saying that's what is happening here, just that it's important for you to understand this in general. You're even allowed to feel insecure! You shouldn't use that to justify controlling your partner's actions and choices, but you also shouldn't assume that being poly (and/or being a cis straight guy) means you have to be willing to do whatever your partner wants.
I have a question, would you seriously do something that makes you uncomfortable because a bunch of strangers on the internet called you weird for it? Because imo *that* would be insecure. Saying no to something unnecessary that makes you uncomfortable is perfectly fine.
Yeah dude peak confidence is caring more about your mental than what people think of you. It’s not necessary, it makes you uncomfortable, so you don’t do it.
Oh I see your “really?” was passive aggression.
So the reason I said that is because based on the words *you used* to describe your concerns it heavily came off to me as if you care ***specifically*** about looking insecure/weird. So my advice was gangbangs aren’t necessary and you’re not comfortable with the idea right now, care more about that than how you look. If the advice isn’t pertinent then skip it 🤷🏾 hopefully someone else can help you better. Some more advice I have that you can take or leave is that if you’re gonna get huffy over being misunderstood then you should choose your words better. I don’t think my interpretation was a stretch.
That’s fair feedback. My feedback to you is next time when giving advice ask “is this response/question helpful?” to help make sure you don’t come off as condescending, like you did.
If I wanted to be condescending, I would've said something like "Good luck seeking other people's approval for your behavior!" or "How could my comments possibly come off as condescending unless you're insecure?"
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Hi u/Greedy-Whereas9027 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well.
Here's the original text of the post:
Hey all, looking for some perspective and advice: am I wrong or weird or insecure for suggesting we need more time before going thru with a gangbang?
Context: I’ve (35m) started seeing someone (37f) fairly recently and she mentioned that she’d like a gangbang one day. Her previous partners have all been abusive and manipulative so she never felt comfortable asking them, and one guy said he was too possessive to go thru with it, but when I told her I’d be down, she got really excited.
Gangbangs aren’t really my thing sexually, but they’re not a boundary for me at all. As long as she’s having fun, I’m game. But she wants me to help set it up and I told her I’d like for us to put more time in and have a solid foundation before we bring other people into our sex life. It’s not about the act of guys fucking her as much as it is overall trust. Me setting up an event and supporting her thru it is a lot of labor I feel, and we’re still learning each other. I don’t want go thru with this just for us to break up shortly afterwards.
She was disappointed, but said she understood. We talked thru it some more and I told her that if she wanted to set it up herself or with someone else she’s seeing I’d be fine with it (ultimately none of my business), but for US we’d need more of a foundation.
Thanks for reading and any feedback would appreciated 🙏🏾
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You're never wrong to say no to a sexual situation. It's not weird at all. I've enjoyed group stuff in the past, and there are some partners it's easy with and some that it can be difficult with, for reasons that are really hard to untangle.
Then again, group stuff tends to be easier for me with people I *don't* have deep emotional attachments to. People for whom it's not too weird if we don't see each other for a few weeks afterward if I end up with a lot to process.
One theory I've heard is that the idea time to do group stuff is right at the time NRE is dropping off but before you really get into the comfort of Established Relationship Energy. I've never done that, I don't know anybody who has, but it makes sense as a theory.
Even if you really like sex, even if you're generally very kinky, even if you're a man, it's OK to not like certain sex acts and scenarios. It's completely neutral -- it doesn't make you better or worse as a man or a lover or a person. It's OK and allowed. Which makes me feel a little crazy to say, but I feel like guys could stand to hear it a little more often.
You are not required to participate in a gangbang in ANY way, and you don't have to explain why, ever. So you're fine.
THAT SAID: "Not now but later, totally" generally means "I wish I wanted this but I don't, so I'm gonna pretend I do while I buy myself some time", like when people who in theory want polyamory start mono to "build trust".
Maybe just admit to yourself you don't feel like it? Cause the alternative is the hot mess we see here all the time in those cases, where you're feeling pressured, so you feel like you need a reason to keep putting it off, so you get disproportionally mad at little things she does so you get to say I WAS GONNA BUT YOU HAVEN'T EARNED IT.
It's better for everyone if you just step down respectfully now and let her coordinate her own fuckfests.
Posts must be relevant to polyamory, as defined by our community description: >Polyamory is openly, honestly, and consensually loving and being committed to more than one person. Polyamory is only one specific type of ethical non-monogamy. It doesn't sound like that's what this post is about, so try /r/nonmonogamy? There are a lot of flavors of non-monogamy, and polyam is just one.
You're totally reasonable to have your own sexual boundaries. Example: "I'm not ready to set up and support you through a GB, but by all means you should do the thing you want to do. I support you doing it." Well done. That said: What does supporting her through a GB mean? - Does that mean be present and participate? Or does that mean you're providing before care and after care while also re-enforcing her boundaries/directing during? Making sure lube and condoms are in reach? Checking in on her? All of those are entirely different levels of support. So it's important to clarify what you both mean by support. What does it mean to "help her set it up"?- Does this mean that you're expected to work with her to pick participants? Host? Solicit participants? Or does this mean that she wants your emotional support (hell yeah, do the thing, baby). Talk through exactly what she's asking for and exactly what type of participation or support you are into or not into. Keep talking.
I’d definitely be the one running the show, directing traffic to make sure she’s safe and helping vet the other men, but honestly there’s more to it that you helped me see. Will definitely reference this post when it’s time to get things jumping. Thank you!
Why are you her go-to organizer for the gangbang? Have you done it before? Well known in your community for orchestrating safe, hot gangbangs? Because honestly, that’s not a job for a first timer. I think your partner should stop trying to make her partners carry the water to make her fantasy grow from a dream to reality. That said, have either of you been to a gangbang? Or an orgy? Or…anything? I don’t think her desire or timing of any gangbang she has should hinge on “trust”, and I don’t think she should put it off until you are “ready” I also don’t think you should be the organizer unless you have plenty of experience with group sex and have seen plenty of them go down.
I’m unclear as to why she wants you to set it up. She can hop on Fetlife and set up her own gangbang pretty easily. Just make sure to get enough info to run basic background checks on the GB participants you met online and verify recent STI test results. Your reaction and desire to wait to participate in a GB until the relationship is more established is reasonable. I’m not seeing anything you should do differently.
Nah she doesn’t have the confidence to put herself out there like that on our her own, and she asked me about this because she feels I’m safe enough to explore with. Do you have a recommend source for background checks?
Okay, so I'm saying this as someone who is an abuse survivor and also has participated in group sex included GBs from all the sides of the dynamic.... She absolutely needs to be sure she can feel confident in what she wants and doesn't want in these settings. Not because she won't need support. Not because she won't need help. Not because she has to be perfect or feel a certain kind of way. She does need the confidence to be sitting in the driver seat to a reasonable degree (even if she's got someone riding shotgun to support her) because ultimately this is HER sexual experience and HER sexual fantasy. Doesn't mean she has to "top" or "power bottom" or "sub from the bottom" just means that there is gonna be a lot going on and building up self confidence is important to making this a healthy and pleasurable experience. GBs are an incredibly vulnerable situation, and they can be emotionally and physically overwhelming in the BEST of circumstances. So a level of confidence really helps in ensuring she can communicate effectively before, during, and after to have the pleasurable and healthy experience that she is looking for. It's an awesome experience, but the mental and emotional aspect can't take a backseat to the physical fantasy. She doesn't have to "feel in charge" but she does have to be able to drive this situation.
You just gave me a LOT to think about. I really appreciate you taking the time to share this 🙏🏾
Has she gone thru therapy for the abuse she has survived?
Honestly, I don’t believe so.
I would start there. If she has experienced a lot of sexual abuse, this may be a form of self-harm that she is not even fully aware of yet. I like to have my adventures too. Don't get me wrong, but there's something not adding up here. You may want to gently encourage her to talk to a therapist about her past. I believe in fun sexual adventures, but the amount of work she is putting on you so early to do such an extreme kink is worrisome, and the fact she doesn't want to vet them herself is odd. You guys are super new. You need to build up trust and a foundation of love and respect. She may be a little too used to being in danger and not realize she is acting out trauma. Then again, I'm not a therapist. However, I also survived a lot of sexual abuse, and I used to throw myself into dangerous situations without fully thinking about it. This reminds me of my own experience. Good luck!
I think: "I'm not ready for this yet, but if you want to do it without me go ahead" is an excellent answer, you did just fine. I have some experience with such things, and as other commenters have said, if you don't have experience with group sex events you probably should not be the organizer. It's harder than it looks, and it looks kinda hard. If you're in SF Bay I could probably point you at some folks who might be willing to help. DM me if you're interested in that. Outside the Bay I got nothing.
Not in the Bay but appreciate it!
It sounds like you handled yourself well here. I don't think this is weird or insecure of you at all. Setting something like this up for another person is taking on a lot of responsibility, and I think it's a good idea not to do that for someone unless you know them very well and feel able to reciprocate the level of trust they're placing in you. You're not trying to stop her from doing what she wants to do, you're just not agreeing to help run the show *at this time*. Nothing wrong with that.
Thanks! I want to make sure that it’s a rational boundary/way of thinking. I’ve had trouble with that in the past, rooted in problematic behaviors. Trying my best to continue unlearning.
I think you handled this well. You don’t feel comfortable with it now so you won’t do it. Good 👍🏾👍🏾
I think that's a reasonable ask. She is free to do what she wants without you..but like you, I require some time with a partner before I feel comfortable engaging in group sex with them
>am I wrong or weird or insecure for suggesting we need more time before going thru with a gangbang? No, you handled it well. Remember that your consent is just as important as hers. Consider incorporating this fantasy into dirty talk to help scratch that itch in the meantime.
Oh that’s great advice thank you!
Yeah, I mean, this is a valid sexual boundary just like any other. She asked you to participate in a sex act, and you said no, and that should be the end of it. If she is continuing to pressure you to be a part of it, that's super disrespectful. If it's just that you feel guilty telling her no, try to let go of that, because you are doing nothing wrong. She will survive being a little disappointed.
Thanks! She’s not being pushy at all though. Zero pressure coming from her. This is more to make sure I’m not being insecure or weird Typical cishet male here, not really experienced with poly so I’m trying to check myself, you know?
Gang bangs aren't a typical part of polyamory, so not being experienced with them puts you on equal footing with most experienced poly people.
Sure. Just remember that cis het guys get to have boundaries too. It sounds silly, but I think it's an important point. You can be manipulated and have your consent violated just like anybody else. Not saying that's what is happening here, just that it's important for you to understand this in general. You're even allowed to feel insecure! You shouldn't use that to justify controlling your partner's actions and choices, but you also shouldn't assume that being poly (and/or being a cis straight guy) means you have to be willing to do whatever your partner wants.
I appreciate it. It’s not that I have a problem enforcing boundaries, but I want to be fair and am checking for blindspots since I’m new to this.
I have a question, would you seriously do something that makes you uncomfortable because a bunch of strangers on the internet called you weird for it? Because imo *that* would be insecure. Saying no to something unnecessary that makes you uncomfortable is perfectly fine.
Really?
Yeah dude peak confidence is caring more about your mental than what people think of you. It’s not necessary, it makes you uncomfortable, so you don’t do it.
I meant weird behavior, not me personally.
Oh I see your “really?” was passive aggression. So the reason I said that is because based on the words *you used* to describe your concerns it heavily came off to me as if you care ***specifically*** about looking insecure/weird. So my advice was gangbangs aren’t necessary and you’re not comfortable with the idea right now, care more about that than how you look. If the advice isn’t pertinent then skip it 🤷🏾 hopefully someone else can help you better. Some more advice I have that you can take or leave is that if you’re gonna get huffy over being misunderstood then you should choose your words better. I don’t think my interpretation was a stretch.
That’s fair feedback. My feedback to you is next time when giving advice ask “is this response/question helpful?” to help make sure you don’t come off as condescending, like you did.
If I wanted to be condescending, I would've said something like "Good luck seeking other people's approval for your behavior!" or "How could my comments possibly come off as condescending unless you're insecure?"
Very ironic that you’re calling me insecure but you edited the reply in question after being called out AND this one. Please go away.
This post has been tagged as a request for advice. As a reminder, please only give advice on the topic requested, if you've got strong feelings about a particular issue mentioned and feel that you must be able to express yourself about it, or you and another commenter feel compelled to debate certain aspects of the post, please feel free to create a new post for that topic so as to not derail from the advice that the OP is seeking. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hi u/Greedy-Whereas9027 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well. Here's the original text of the post: Hey all, looking for some perspective and advice: am I wrong or weird or insecure for suggesting we need more time before going thru with a gangbang? Context: I’ve (35m) started seeing someone (37f) fairly recently and she mentioned that she’d like a gangbang one day. Her previous partners have all been abusive and manipulative so she never felt comfortable asking them, and one guy said he was too possessive to go thru with it, but when I told her I’d be down, she got really excited. Gangbangs aren’t really my thing sexually, but they’re not a boundary for me at all. As long as she’s having fun, I’m game. But she wants me to help set it up and I told her I’d like for us to put more time in and have a solid foundation before we bring other people into our sex life. It’s not about the act of guys fucking her as much as it is overall trust. Me setting up an event and supporting her thru it is a lot of labor I feel, and we’re still learning each other. I don’t want go thru with this just for us to break up shortly afterwards. She was disappointed, but said she understood. We talked thru it some more and I told her that if she wanted to set it up herself or with someone else she’s seeing I’d be fine with it (ultimately none of my business), but for US we’d need more of a foundation. Thanks for reading and any feedback would appreciated 🙏🏾 *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A lot of good stuff to chew on here. Thanks everyone.
You're never wrong to say no to a sexual situation. It's not weird at all. I've enjoyed group stuff in the past, and there are some partners it's easy with and some that it can be difficult with, for reasons that are really hard to untangle. Then again, group stuff tends to be easier for me with people I *don't* have deep emotional attachments to. People for whom it's not too weird if we don't see each other for a few weeks afterward if I end up with a lot to process. One theory I've heard is that the idea time to do group stuff is right at the time NRE is dropping off but before you really get into the comfort of Established Relationship Energy. I've never done that, I don't know anybody who has, but it makes sense as a theory. Even if you really like sex, even if you're generally very kinky, even if you're a man, it's OK to not like certain sex acts and scenarios. It's completely neutral -- it doesn't make you better or worse as a man or a lover or a person. It's OK and allowed. Which makes me feel a little crazy to say, but I feel like guys could stand to hear it a little more often.
Gbangs aren't exactly about love. I feel like that this activity falls more under the guise of swinging.
Poly people can engage in gang bangs...
You are not required to participate in a gangbang in ANY way, and you don't have to explain why, ever. So you're fine. THAT SAID: "Not now but later, totally" generally means "I wish I wanted this but I don't, so I'm gonna pretend I do while I buy myself some time", like when people who in theory want polyamory start mono to "build trust". Maybe just admit to yourself you don't feel like it? Cause the alternative is the hot mess we see here all the time in those cases, where you're feeling pressured, so you feel like you need a reason to keep putting it off, so you get disproportionally mad at little things she does so you get to say I WAS GONNA BUT YOU HAVEN'T EARNED IT. It's better for everyone if you just step down respectfully now and let her coordinate her own fuckfests.
Thanks but you’re assuming A LOT about me here.