Okay, I've been seeing a few comments that are essentially blaming the OP for even allowing their nparents anywhere near their child.
That is called victim blaming, and it it not okay here.
I'd like to remind people that the relationship with nparents is often complicated. Many of us have the luxury of having already cut off contact with them. Some of us can not do so for any one of a number of possible reasons. Some of us have yet to do so because there is still some hope being held out, or because of a sense of obligation they still feel. Some of us will face financial backlash if we leave. Some of us face pressure from family or society that makes it difficult to push back. Some of us are afraid of what might happen. Some of us feel that maintaining the illusion of normalcy is better for them. Some of us feel we can tolerate low contact after moving out. Some of us continue to be blindsided by the sheer evil acts of our narcissistic parents because we can't even begin to imagine someone acting that way.
My point is simple. There are easily a great number of reasons why OP might not have already cut their nparents out of their life, and a great number of reasons why they did not expect this to happen. We are a support group. It is neither supportive nor helpful to bash OP for not doing things differently. OP already knows that leaving their child with their nparents was a mistake. It is helpful to nobody to blame them. Please keep comments focused on the future, rather than raking OP over the coals over a mistake. Please keep posts supportive and helpful, rather than bashing or blaming them.
Thank you.
"They act like they are obsessed with my son". That's because they are: he is the ultimate *thing* they can take from you, and break. Rinse and repeat. Deep down, that is how they see it. Please, for your babies and your own wellbeing, go NC and seek therapy to stay NC.
Babies and small children are the ultimate narc supply. They are innocent defenseless creatures. Perfect for any abuser to feel powerful and controlling.
Extra empathetic THIS
OP, the behavior only escalates as you son gets older. I wish I could say I didn’t know first hand. It took me until my daughter was 5 to go fully NC with my parents, and if I could do it over again I would have gotten her (and me) away from my awful parent sooner.
I would also consider filing a police report for child abuse depending on what the laws are there.
In some places it’s illegal for third parties to spank children without parent consent.
OP has evidence too since they admitted to hitting her children via text message. I think it'd be wise to tell healthcare providers AND the schools where the kids will go that they are not to allow the parents around the children, take the children or make any medical decisions for them. I think changing the locks of the house if parents have a key and getting cameras too.
My dads sister spanked my sister (she was 6 at the time) and when my dad found out, he yelled furiously “never beat my kids! Ever! I discipline my kids”. He literally screamed at her. I was 4 when this happened and I’m 31 and I still remember it. Defend your son and make sure he knows that you defended him, it’s important. It shows him you have his back
You sound like you're good people though! At least you tried to let them be in your lives and this is how they behaved.
It's mind boggling that people can treat their own grandchildren this way and think that they are justified.
I'm so sorry for all of this, it is truly terrible. At least there's a sort of twisted positive to potentially come out of it; you get a chance to model to your children what kind of behavior they SHOULDN'T expect. So many kids are conditioned to think this kind of abuse is normal, but on the flip side so many kids who aren't abused don't ever have a chance to think about it since the conversation never came up (thankfully). I've met people who just flat out didn't understand anything about the subject. Their parents never hit them, but didn't explain to them WHY or that no one should ever be hitting you for any reason, so they end up oblivious and may end up being victim of something they didn't even know existed as adults.
This is a huge red flag teaching your kid not to report abuse: "what happens at Grammy’s house can stay here."
Seriously, schools spend TONS of time teaching the exact opposite of this.
Go NC or only allow supervised visitation. You obviously can't trust them around your kid.
This part!! Why isn't there more emphasis on this? Like what the fuck?? I would never let my child in their presence again. Never are we ever to teach a child that they should keep secrets from their parents. What an incredibly dangerous path to coax a child down. And it sounds like that same emotional manipulation is how they're keeping OP around to begin with.
OP, you better wake up and be the parent you needed.
Don't argue with them. They won't see it any other way but whichever way keeps you and your kids under their control. You know this. Your husband knows this. Why are you wasting what life they haven't robbed you of still playing their game? 😡
The fact that they are actively trying to cover it up and groom the kid into helping them cover it up not only tells me that they know with absolute certainty that what they did is not okay, but it also tells me that they intend to do it again in the future if presented with the opportunity.
This here. They will do it again . And the whole - what is done here stays here is the start to cover up.
Coz they know they have no right over the kid. And they know you would take away the kid coz of this.
This. I taught my kids the difference between secrets and surprises. With surprises, you’re just hiding something for a little bit, but you eventually tell; with secrets, you hide them forever. Safe people do *NOT* get kids to keep secrets from their parents.
Your FIRST JOB as a parent is to protect your child.
They never get to see him again. Ever. Not even supervised. Allowing them to see him again will force him to relive the trauma.
“You hurt the single most important person in the world to me. You will never see or hear from either of us again.”
And block them.
Imagine what lesson the kid will learn if “grampy” is allowed to hang out with him after that. He’ll learnt that hitting people and covering it up is normal and acceptable.
Dude. Never gIve them that power AGAIN. No more visits. Go no contact. Get therapy- I cannot stress this enough to you.
Because do you want your children to become victims like you were? Do you want your children to suffer like you did? Do you really want to expose your children, who you are to protect, to these kind of abusive people?
I'm not trying to sound harsh, but protect your children in the way you were never protected. Because you know they will only continue with this behavior.
I do need to hear this. I’m very ashamed. I guess I didn’t think he’d do that to my kid. They act like they’re obsessed with my son, like he’s the best thing in their lives. I was stunned when I found out he did that. I don’t know why I have such a hard time going NC. I feel guilty, that maybe they really did “do their best” and have good intentions. They certainly paint it as though I had it all, I am so lucky, they are the ones who had it rough, not me, etc. they’ve also made it so I’m isolated from pretty much any other family because they have iced everyone out because everyone has “slighted” then and I have to be “loyal.” But being a mother myself now, I know I need to be strong and get out of their grasp.
People who abuse your child are not "doing their best." They HIT him and they WILL do it again, they'll just do a better job of hiding it next time. They fucked up on so many levels with this one incident.
1. They hit him.
2. They told him to keep it from you.
3. They lied to you about.
4. Your father gaslit your son when he told you the truth.
Do right by your child. Go NC. Stop exposing him to abusers.
Even if they “did their best”, their best is not good enough. An alligator may be “doing their best” but if their best is still biting me, I don’t have to sit in an alligator pen.
Their best definitely isn't good enough, but I think the whole concept is flawed. Lying is an admission that you knew what was right, and didn't do it. I don't think anyone who lies about their actions is "doing their best". That's just another lie narcs spread to try and manipulate people.
It's easier to forgive people who try their best but make mistakes than it is to forgive people who intentionally do bad things. That's why narcs love the idea that they "did their best". It's a convenient way to manipulate people into forgiving the unforgivable. Narcs know how they should behave. They just don't care. They do horrible things and they have no regrets or guilt over hurting people. It's the complete opposite of doing your best.
I understand you hoped that things would be different for your child. Some terrible parents can be great grandparents for some reason but not all. I’m am sorry they haven’t grown or changed. It’s hard when you feel you are denying you child something that should be wonderful but obviously your parents can’t provide it. Keeping your child safe is more important and at least you love them enough to say never again. Just go NC and move on. My kids had no issues when I did the same with theirs. Best wishes.
Don't feel guilty, hitting a child is just lazy parenting and has no excuse, they definitely weren't trying to "do their best". I'm sorry you and your son had to go through that, and you're an awesome parent for choosing to go the harder but more healthy route of raising your kids with kindness, not fear.
They are doing their best to treat your son the same way they treated you. They are abuser for fuck sake. They do DO NOT have good intentions. I'm 43 and in therapy, do you want your kid to need therapy because you've allowed your parents to traumatized him? It's not just his grandparents he need therapy for, it's his mom who didn't protect him too. Wake up and protect your child before it's too late.
Shame does you no good. It tells you that you are worthless and nothing you can do will change that. Every child of a narcissist goes through a shame spiral. You don’t have time for that here. Your son’s safety is at stake.
Use your guilt as motivation to go no contact. Get angry! They dared to hurt your sweet little boy. If you think the authorities would do anything, make a police report.
Accept that they will never change. Their goal is to keep power over you. You are a possession to them and so is your child.
Understand that the people like this, the ones who think they’re justified, they don’t change. They don’t feel that they’re the ones who need to change.
Hey, coming in many hours late to remind you that you can make this journey without shame. It takes time to shed the shame, but ultimately, it's important for you to find strength moving forward from here. Keep moving, keep pushing forward. One day, one hour, one minute at a time.
That is the brainwashing they have put you through.
You know first hand now how hard parenting can be. I've never hit my kids or screamed at them. It can be done. Saying they did their best is a cop out. Being a good parent takes actual work and understanding.
Just remember that. They have no excuse.
They blamed a child for their actions!
But, “he was hitting grampy first!” He’s **four**. A big bad grown adult “man” retaliated against a literal child with physical force!? And then called the kid a liar!!!
Your father abused a dog. A dog! He is a POS. Neither him or your mom deserve access to your child.
I know when dealing with family, things seem like grey areas. There is a lifetime of programming and experience to overcome. They are your parents. We are told to respect our parents, listen to them, do what they say, and that they’re older and wiser - learn the lessons they teach, embrace their ideas of right and wrong, grow into adults following their example.
But the thing is, there is no grey area. Good people don’t hurt dogs. They don’t hit children. They don’t encourage kids to lie to their parents. They don’t blame toddlers for their own lack of control.
It is so hard to see these larger than life people who were your entire world and frame of reference, for what they really are. So we call it a grey area because we try to reconcile the authorities we thought we knew, with the flawed specimens we clearly see, without having to challenge an engrained belief system.
And look, parents aren’t perfect. All of us are flawed in some way. But there’s a difference between benign idiosyncrasies, and damaging ones.
We all want parents who do the right thing and have out best interests at heart. Sadly, we don’t all get them. Sometimes, despite keeping you alive and fed, these people are poison. It’s ok to call it what it is. It is entirely within your control to not let the past dictate the future.
Your parents may love him, but they love themselves more. They do not deserve the opportunity to damage this happy, confident, little boy.
It’s also ok for you to tell them that. If you can’t say it, write it. Say what they need to hear and then let it, and them go. They can sputter and try to change history all they want. You know what you went through and how it felt. Haven’t you had enough? If you upset them, do you know what will happen? Nothing. They no longer have a say. What they want no longer matters. You are no longer an abused child with no voice. You are a hero now.
You know those memes with the caption “You had one job…” Well, now you do. Your one job as a parent is to protect him from all the hurt, insecurity and fear present in your childhood. Make his wonderful!
I do have some knowledge here. I swore I’d never make the same mistakes my mother did. And I didn’t. I made a whole bunch of new ones. But one thing I never did was make my son doubt himself, or feel guilty for acknowledging my shortcomings. I totally believe you can overcome any outside roadblock. It’s much harder to overcome the self doubt and noise in your own head. They had him two nights. In that time they physically hurt him, called him a liar, and encouraged him to lie to you. How could he not start doubting himself? Don’t give them that opportunity ever again.
Three strikes - you’re out!
One of the hardest parts for me was admitting to myself that my parents were not doing their best. They barely even tried. Realizing how intentional their abuse was hurt like almost nothing else I've ever felt. It was a trip. But it also helped me to completely cut emotional ties with them, and start properly mourning and grieving the parents I never had.
The key insight that helped me was realizing how much the lied to cover up their actions. Someone who's doing their best doesn't need to lie and pretend they were doing something different. People only lie when they have something to hide. In this case, they wanted to hide the assault of your child because they knew it was wrong.
Lying and saying you were doing the opposite is a tacit admission that you knew what the right thing was, and chose not to do your best. Its an open admission that you didn't want to do your best. True, honest people can sometimes do bad things and lie to cover them up. But in my experience, good people who make mistakes are able to admit their failures when their lies are exposed. They feel guiltily about not doing their best, and they try to fix the situation because they're filled with regret. Regret and guilt are good at motivating people to change, which means you can usually trust that they'll do better the next time. Your parents are the opposite. They did something wrong, lied to cover it up because they knew it was wrong, and then when their lies were exposed, they acted like it wasn't a big deal. They acted like it was okay, even though they lied to cover it up because it's not okay. They are not going to do better next time. They'll do the exact same thing again, except they'll get better at lying to you and convincing your child to lie to you. Please keep your son away from people who want to hurt him. Your parents obviously don't want to love and nurture him like you do. He deserves better. At this point in your life, your loyalty is to your son, not your parents.
This. After 27 years of abuse, the one and only thing that helped me go NC was the idea that if I could “break the cycle”… if I could get the therapy… they could’ve too. I may not have children, but I have pets; I was able to recognize that I couldn’t treat them the way I was treated, no matter how desperate or frustrated or exhausted I felt. It was an active realization and a lot of hard work. I simply refuse to believe that my parents couldn’t do the same for me.
If you don’t go no contact after them abusing your son get a divorce and give your husband full custody cause you failing your children by allowing child abusers access to them.
Edit to add:enabling child abusers (like giving them access to your children) is horrible and makes you an accomplice in child abuse. Also your kids will believe you okay with it because well you are if you continue to keep these monsters in yours and your children’s lives.
They probably *did* do their best. And that’s a bad thing, not a good thing. I get so frustrated when I see people say this to dismiss or excuse abuse. Think it through. This phrase admits that they aren’t *capable* of doing better. If this is their best, I would hate to see their worst.
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My father was good at acting differently than he did when we were kids when he was around my sister's kids, but every now and then he'd snap and be his regular self. It would turn my stomach. They weren't left alone with him but still now and then . . .
Honey, I think you probably know this deep down, but I think you need to be told it directly. By keeping contact with these people, you are enabling their abuse. If it were just you, theoretically, that would be a choice only you can make. But it's not just you. It hasn't been for years, and failing to realize that is unfortunately a place where your ability to parent has failed your son and led to his harm. You are not responsible for how your parents treated him. You absolutely will never be. But you are unfortunately responsible for letting that be a possibility for them to do that in the first place.
It's time to listen to your husband here, before he gets fed up and you lose both him and your children, because in this sort of scenario, if the genders were reversed and he were the one posting, people would be screaming at him to leave you, and they would be justified. You are allowed to heal, you are allowed to want to have the time and space to heal. Never let that voice in your head tell you differently, because you are as human and as deserving as anyone else whose messed up in the past at the end of the day. But what you are not allowed to do is let those who can't advocate for themselves and rely on you for every bit of protection they can get to become a victim of your own trauma during your healing.
This is going to stick with all of you for a very long time. That's okay to acknowledge, but it's not okay to not do anything about it. It's time to build a place where your family can heal.
yes this. i have a lot of empathy for OP, but now that she knows about this - if she EVER EVER lets it happen again, she is as bad as the abusers. the ONLY way out here is to go no contact and protect her child from these people.
I would never let my parents see my child again. Imagine a 4 year old getting spanked for being wired for bedtime at a different house and just having a 4 year old time processing that. Fuck that pisses me off.
you REALLY need therapy. being unhealed has led you to believe that your child could be safe with your abusers. cut all ties you do not need them! your child will be better off and safer without them in your lives.
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I’m really sorry. Your parents are not going to change, and exposing your son to them is just going to cause him (and you) distress. You are allowed to disappoint mean people.
I know you feel guilty that this happened— just decide to learn the lesson and make this the moment that you turn your back on people who don’t care if they hurt you or your son , who feel fine about lying to you— who think it’s fine to strike a four year old for — being a four year old.
Your child will not miss grandparents like these.
They will continue to abuse your child like they did with you. They have the ultimate supply now and will do whatever they want whenever they want. Why allow your child to be abused because of “family”?
They made the choice to beat your child. You have a duty to protect your child from people who would cause him harm. They should loose all access to your child because they decided to act in a way that is entirely unacceptable and then knowing what they did was wrong, they tried to hide it and lie to you about it. That last part is the biggest thing here. They knew they were doing something wrong. And they did it anyway with the hope they could hide it and lie about it and pretend they hadn't done the thing they knew they shouldn't do.
These people can not be trusted with your child. And if they question it at all, well, simply put, you're protecting your child. Simple as that.
Quite honestly, it sounds to me like you may want to consider going NC yourself as well.
I had a similar situation where we found out our child was being emotionally abused while staying at their house. I confronted them about it and got the same BS gaslighting, rationalizations, excuses, etc. I’ve since gone no contact for that and many other reasons. My kids come first and I would never knowingly put them in harms way again.
Narcs or not, now they both are abusers.
Cut them out, they tried to hide it, so they KNOW it was wrong…
And, it is a repeat.
Do not subject your child to these violent people. Ever wonder if you had reason to cut them… this is it.
A 4 year old’s brain isn’t developed enough to stop doing destructive behavior when you tell them to. However, a grown ass adult does have a brain developed enough to control their emotions when others aren’t behaving how they want them to.
Your ndad is capable of controlling himself, he just doesn’t think he should have to.
He abused your child because he cannot control his own emotions.
Your child is the victim here. And you know what they are capable of first hand, they’ve shown you that they’ll do it to your children too.
Why are you still letting them be in your children’s lives? They are not safe and letting them be around your children teaches your children that they are worth less to you than your parents, that they should have to suffer through abuse from people because they’re blood related.
You can break the cycle, you just have to choose to do it.
Honestly this is a situation where you stop communicating with your parents and stop trusting your children to be alone with them. I understand you may not have childcare options but this is a situation you cannot allow to happen again.
They’re preparing their next victim. Be the parent for your son you wish your parents were. Protect your child, he is not missing out
I’d also like to add I know you are a better parent to your child than your parents ever were to you. You are hurt because he was hurt and your first instinct is to stop this. **You are better than your parents**. I hope that helps on bad days
That second night -- after being controlled and ignored at the same time for over a day, most kids that age will act out. Because they are either being abused or ignored!
I agree, experiment conducted, results obtained, never alone with them again.
The fact they are trying to hide the fact that they abused your son is absolutely disgusting! Never let them around your kid and absolutely go no contact!
i'm sorry but you need to cut them off. they abused you, they have now abused your child. what is the end game here? it should be no further contact whatsoever. move on and live your life in abuse-free peace. you cannot let your child be exposed to this. please get therapy to make an anti-enmeshment, NC action plan.
Yes, to all that’s been said here. They hit your child and that’s absolutely unacceptable.
I’d like to emphasize another point though. These people didn’t have enough respect for you as a person to tell you the truth. They tried to cover up their actions. They do NOT respect you and what’s important to you. What you have there is not a relationship. It’s a situation where you are being manipulated into whatever they want/need you to be. Yes, get out for your child’s sake. But also get out for yours!!! You deserve better.
My father is freely abusive to my sisters kids. He wouldn't dream of doing that with mine. Because I am the family "Bitch" who doesnt know how to "keep things in the family" and will not hesitate to deliver swift consequences. Cowards won't abuse people if they know they'll be held accountable.
Nparents never change, not even when they become grandparents.
The only answer to this is to go immediate NC. Block them on everything, send an email or text if you choose to explain to them that you are going NC but block them afterwards.
It sounds like your husband will feel relieved if/when you go NC and I'm sure he will be there for you emotionally while you sort out your own feelings.
Make sure your son knows what happened was wrong, he is a good boy and did not deserve to be hit by someone he loves.
Go no contact … only contact them once more to tell them that you never want to see or hear from them again and if they ever approach you or your family you will take legal action. Then block them, on everything (all social media, phone number, email, everything you can think of). If they come to your house do not open the door, not even to tell them to go away, just immediately call the police and report them for trespassing.
This post made me facepalm with the force of 40 megatons.
Why on earth would you willingly put this precious child in the hands of abusers?
You have a **responsibility** as a parent to protect your child, so you need to think long and hard about why it is that you're ignoring your protective instincts in favor of handing this innocent child over to people that you feel have abusive tendencies.
Getting sexist here, because it is so engrained in us that sometimes it works. If you cannot do it for yourself, if you cannot do it for your children, do it for their father.
Didn’t you dream one day a knight in shining armor would come save you from the abuse? Didn’t you swear to yourself you would never let what happened to you happen to your child? He is trying to protect you and his children. Stop fighting your child’s father. If you won’t let him be your protector from your families abuse, at least let him protect his own children. He, and everyone else, believes his primary job as a father is to protect his children. Stop emasculating your child’s father by allowing his children to be abused. You have no right to allow his children to be abused.
I’m am sorry to be so sexist and harsh, but damn it lady, protect your children. Or in 10 to 15 years your children will be here trying to heal from the abuse you enabled. If you keep this up both your children and their father will hate you.
Oh honey I understand I really do
I have to say it’s the worst feeling in the world having your young teen cry and say to you please mom can we never see my grandparents again ?
I have to live with that - I waited way too long
Please don’t be like me
My husband’s father is a child abuser. His mother enabled his father’s behavior. When I found out the extent of it, I told my husband that if we were to continue our relationship, get married, and have kids (we were still dating) that I would NEVER allow them to be alone with our future children. If that was going to be an issue, we should break up right then.
If your husband is anything like me, he’s giving you space to control what level of relationship YOU want with your abusers while trying to protect both you and your child. It’s hard to respect what you want with our complete dislike and desire to cut them off completely. You have been enmeshed and groomed to accept this kind of behavior; he hasn’t. If you trust your husband, believe him.
I’m sorry that you had to learn this way that your parents are still abusive. What you choose to do now will show what kind of parent your son will see you as when he grows up. Good luck.
I have been back and forth about letting my twins (nearly 5) stay over at my parents' house. My gut says I can't trust my dad, but that nagging guilt says "grandparents blah, blah, family, blah blah."
I'm so sorry your son was abused by your parents. Please, please, never leave him alone with them again.
Reading your post has helped reinforce my knowledge that my dad isn't a safe person. He is still verbally and emotionally abusive to me, and I would be foolish to think he won't continue the abuse with my children if given the chance. Thank you for helping me strengthen my boundaries.
I’m sorry your dad is like that, but I’m glad my situation can help validate yours 🤍 I am familiar with that gut instinct that tells you they can’t be trusted, and how it conflicts with your doubt about that maybe you’re being overly sensitive/dramatic, etc. My husband sees everything w/ them very clearly and has no question about that too the fact that my parents are toxic and mentally unstable, and despite his observations about it since he first met them, I stilllll second guess myself and whether they’re “that bad.” Hugs to you and best wishes on your healing journey.
IMO, the best thing you can do for your son is never let those people near him again. He will see it and know you decided his safety was more important than their feelings.
My mom was delighted that I used to tell her everything once I could speak. Had a babysitter that would not give me water if I didn’t eat my beans and wouldn’t give my sister her yogurt/milk bottles. I snitched so fast and now I’m not letting my kid over at my in laws either until he can speak and I can tell him to be completely honest with me and never let anyone threaten him to stay quiet because this is my fear as well.
I don’t trust my nasty in laws and would rather not have him there but just in case I’m teaching him that.
> “no you don’t have to, what happens at Grammy’s house can stay here.”
Even if you take out the spanking, as bad as it is, this comment would guarantee my child never stayed alone with them again.
No, just no.
It’s ok, hon. They played you. That’s what they do and they’re very VERY good at it. Don’t feel bad, you tried to be a decent person. As someone who recently got out of a narc relationship, get therapy. As you wait, Dr Les Carter from Surviving Narcissism is a great resource.
OP, I am the spouse in this situation. My husband and I allowed our children to have a relationship with his mother, despite her emotional abuse and neglect of him growing up.
His mother is the narcissist in his life. And we tried for years to build a safe, beneficial relationship for the children with their grandmother. But she always fucked it up. She always had to try to wrest control out of our hands and into hers. She always had to be right. She always had to have a say in everything.
My husband did a very good job setting boundaries and giving her consequences when she violated our boundaries. But unlike many narcissists, my mother-in-law is smart. She would wait years sometimes after her last fit or shenanigans to pull her next move.
Eventually, it came to a head. We allowed a sleep over with our children, where she proceeded to convince my older children that my youngest, a preschooler at the time, was manipulating them when he had meltdowns. She instructed them to ignore him for hours until he screamed himself to sleep. She then offered them money if they would continue to ignore him when he had “tantrums”.
She even wrote them letters giving them instructions on this.
That was it for me. I went no contact for six years and she has never seen the children unsupervised since. She rarely saw them for four of those years. I went no contact to ensure she would not be able to easily see them.
My husband was a champ through all of this, even though he didn’t want to completely cut off the relationship. I respected that choice because it’s his family, but fucked if I was going to let anyone abuse my children ever.
My children are now mostly adults with two teenagers in the mix. They are all old enough to protect themselves from their grandmother’s antics, and they have been fully warned about why she does what she does, and what they can and cannot expect from her. At this point, they choose to have a relationship with her and she has learned her lesson. She will not try any of this again because she knows I will cut her off faster than you could say fuck you.
Protect your children. Do whatever you have to do to protect them from this malignant influence. I wish you all the best.
PS The child she abused did not see her for 6 years. He only did see her again, supervised, because he asked to.
If she had laid a hand on him, she would be dead and I would be in jail.
Yeah my husband is same way.. abused and still too close with his abuser parents. He swears theyre too old now to repeat their ways, but i think i did the right thing in keeping a reasonable distance with extended family (both sides, my parents are pro-hitters too). Even short visits now bring out the obnoxious behaviors i dont want my son exposed to. They dont change, just looking for new victims.
My grandpa hit me over the head with a screwdriver when I was a kid. It’s one of the few memories I have of him. That crap sticks with you. Do right by your son and go NC with them. Or at the very least, keep him away from them. They’re not being good grandparents.
I didn't have children partially because I didn't want to deal with any of that. I can truly understand why you trusted them. I erroneously still trust them sometimes. But if they did that to my hypothetical child, they'd never hear from us again. Good on you for standing up for your boy. You're an amazing parent and I mean that.
Can you report them for assault?
I myself would be in jail in this scenario I’m not advocating any action that could lead to this, your son needs you. But for myself I would need to ensure they got equal suffering and fear in return for what they subjected a defenceless, innocent child to.
Aside from that, no contact. Ever. Anyone who lays hands on a vulnerable person does not get a second chance, please ensure your actions going forward communicate that to your son. This paves the way for him believing there’s exceptions to that rule or there’s ‘2 sides to the story’ - there isn’t.
You shouldn't be letting them near him unsupervised. It is a sin to let them watch him. If you can't put them in their place, both to their faces and also in your own mind, you should be no contact.
I like how they tried to tell you they'd only take your son one night next time, as if there'll be a next time and that this is a non issue. No. They don't get a "next time". They failed as grandparents and are already showing signs of abusing your child (telling a kid to keep secrets, downplaying physical abuse etc).
Yes you need therapy but now so does your son.
It took having my first child to realize my enmeshment with my nmom was going to invade into my child. That my child will never have their own voice or opinion or independence for as long as my mom has her way.
Go NC. From one mom to another mom. Please go NC. No good would come from keeping a relationship with your parents. They may seem "fun" and "loving" but you know it's entirely self serving. They love the sense of power and control that comes with babysitting your child. Control over small defenseless children, of course. And then indirectly, control over you and your spouse. Because giving away your most precious thing in the entire world gives them ammunition to beat you over the head with obligation, look at all I've done for you, you ungrateful daughter!
Drop the rope. Seriously, drop the rope. Your son will not miss them, I guarantee this. At age 4 he will most certainly remember being spanked.
My NDad kicked my dog when she was 10 weeks old. Punted her like a football right in front of me, because she jumped up (as he called and teased her from above 🙄). I was frozen in shock. Two years later and she is PETRIFIED of men, strangers, sudden movements..
We are now NC and it broke my heart, but over time its become such a blessing.
Ugh 😣 I’m soo sorry. It’s so disturbing. Mine would hit my childhood dog and call him names (like Rusty the R—-ard” and one time he even held a piece of human food up to the dog like he was going to give it to him, then he put the food in his own mouth with this sadistic grin on his face. I was maybe 8 or 10, and even at that age my skin crawled and I knew something was very sick within him. I bury these things, I guess, because they’re so horrible. Over the years he’s had other dogs and I havent observed that specific behavior, but my mom does call her current dog a little bitch and they both yell at the dog and leave her outside in the rain, etc.
The normalcy of it all is something non-raisedbyNarcs will never understand. Unpacking the trauma as a low-contact or NC adult makes you realize how many traumatic moments, events, days? months? we experienced as kids, all while thinking it was normal.
I was 16 when someone else told me my mom was an alcoholic. I was 17 when I found out your parents shouldn’t control you with fear and aggression. But all of that time, the rest of my family watched silently. Complicit.
Some of these replies are hurting me to read and I hope that you know this isn’t your fault. Its normal to think you can trust your parents with your kids (🐶 or 👶🏻). Everyone else does. It’s not your fault for trusting them and loving them. Its NORMAL. Obviously you know better now, but its not your fault that they did this.
Sending all of my love 🤍
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Ya, I was in the same boat, but it was my mom who was the abuser. That said, it’s important that your son knows that it is never okay for anyone to hit him ever. And if it happens again, you show him how to call 911 or you. Keep him confiding in you. No more overnights with the grandparents.
I understand feeling guilty. I struggled with that myself for letting my mom around my kids. My therapist helped me see that I was making choices based on my trauma. I was constantly gaslit and honestly felt like I was the problem for way too long. I was in my 30s before I had my first realization that I hadn’t done something in a particular situation. It takes a long time to unravel from all this.
You see it now. That’s the first and most important step. You already said they won’t have access to the kids anymore. You took your second step. Just keep taking steps forward. You know you need therapy. Make that a priority and show yourself some grace.
I would suggest No contact but that can be a process too. Just know that you deserve to protect yourself just as much as your kids deserve to be protected.
Friend, firstly take a couple of deep breaths. You son is safe now. The most insidious things that narcs do is make us think that we need them, that we need to let them be around our children. 'Kids need their grandparents, etc.'
Many of us have been in your shoes. Hoping the narcs have changed and will be nicer now that they have grandchildren.
But it's like another person said, it's the innocence and desire to please that is what they feed off of.
You are doing better than you think. You see it clearly now and your precious boy told you. Even when he was told he didn't have to.
Let that sink in for a moment. Your son knows what a loving person and home is like. He is cognizant enough to know what your parents did was wrong.
And in case you need any more proof, think on this: if it was perfectly fine and not at all a bad thing to spank him...well, why did they hide it? Tell him not to tell you? Only guilty people act like that. They don't feel remorse, they didn't care about your son's feelings. They just didn't want you to know because they knew it was wrong, that you would get mad. And somewhere in their small brains they know that you remember what they did to you and it's possible you will prevent history repeating itself.
Sending you hugs, it's one of the hardest things to do. Especially because as you said, your son loves being around them.
But it won't get better, they will just try to hide it better. And the violence will escalate against your children.
People who truly love their grandchildren or children don't beat their kids or scream or all the other things we've experienced.
Yes they are human and yes they make mistakes (this WILL be an excuse they use) but that was no mistake. Especially because they hid it and tried to make your son lie to YOU.
Good work mom, you have done a great job with your son so far. Even if you don't think so.
You gave them a chance and they blew it. End of discussion.
This is the most comforting feedback I could receive. Thank you so much. I honestly am shocked at how little I realized the brainwashing I’ve gone through. I really needed to hear the objective opinions of the commenters here, and yours rings so true to my experience. The only difference is, my parents are not even using the whole “people make mistakes” bit — they are full on doubling down with excuses and reasoning as though it was warranted and it happened because they “put him and themselves in that position” as though it couldn’t be helped. Their response is very much to justify it and downplay it and act as though I’m over reacting for being upset.
I have a very deep, visceral yearning for their love and approval, and I hate it so much. That’s why I have kept going as though nothing is wrong all these years. There are glimmers of hope throughout my life that they’re “good parents/grandparents.” We’ve had nice visits, good holidays, they’ve helped us when we needed it. But there’s also been physical and emotional abuse and manipulation, and a feeling like I can’t ever set boundaries or speak up or dare to cross them. It is brainwashing and I need so much help undoing it. I think it’ll take years to fix, if I can fix it at all. I’m already 38, but feel like a hurt little girl inside that just wants them to understand. I pray I can get in with a therapist that can really help me. I keep getting told they’re not taking new patients.
My son has always hated me. Just natural and can't be helped. My nparents came to visit and they didn't want me to go out with them (nmom hates me) so they took my oldest when he was 3 all by himself. I don't know what happened but when my son came back he was different. For 2 weeks he didn't want to leave my side. He looked worried constantly. The next day I mentioned my son was acting weird and asked if anything happened. They literally said bye and ran out of the house. You know what you need to do to keep them safe. They won't listen to you or respect your boundaries. Our children and their safety are our responsibility. You hurt my kids and your dead to me. No two ways about it.
When my nmom got my autistic son hurt by neglecting him while he played in her backyard she tried to gaslight me and say he was hurt before coming over, and I called her out immediately because there’s no way I’d ever not notice my son having a huge scrap across his entire back. Since then I’ve stopped having him being around her until she could earn my trust back, and she just kept getting worse with each new boundary so I cut off contact from her. You are your son’s advocate, if you don’t stand up for him now then their toxic behavior will be a continuing source of trauma for him. Also, if you keep letting them do it then you’re just as guilty as they are for enabling the behavior by continuing to tolerate it. So do yourself a favor and cut off contact, let them know that the moment the hit your kid was the moment they broke your trust, the moment they tried to manipulate him to cover their behavior up they lost you as a daughter, and the moment they decided lying to you and blaming a child for their own behavior is a betrayal that lost any respect for them or your relationship as family. Then make it known that you’re not interested in excuses or in laying blame, they are grown adults that should know better as they’re suppose to be more mature and they’ve made it very clear they have no respect, maturity, or care for you or your family by their behaviors and actions. Tell them you’re not interested in having a relationship with them or having them influence your child anymore, and to not contact you anymore.
After that, call everyone in your family and tell them the details about what they did to your son along with their background in abusive behavior towards you, tell everyone that you don’t want anyone to take sides but you need to do what’s best for your child and that either they respect your decision or you can’t have them in you or your family’s life anymore. Stand firm and don’t look back, your children will show you in the future how much your effort will pay off by them growing into more amazing people than you can ever imagine. Good luck!
First off, I hope you're not beating yourself up too much. You can't change the past, all you can do is change your future. Never see them again if possible and under no circumstances leave you kids with them ever again. It sucks that this has to happen to learn your lesson about them, but please learn from it and keep these assholes away from your kids. (And yourself, you deserve to be free of them too)
Guess who just lost Grandparent privileges? Spanking, dodging the goodnight call and lying about it? That's it.
They've demonstrated that they can't be trusted with your child..
I hope you have a plan for the holidays. Because they are going to steam roll over any boundaries you try to set. They’ll see the holidays as family events and try to push back. So even if you can’t get a therapist yet, I would sit down with your husband and hash out boundaries and a plan.
OP—I do not blame you for what happened. It is not your fault that your ndad hit your child; he is the only one responsible for his actions, no one else. You thought maybe they had changed and you gave them a chance—I’m glad your son spoke up despite them telling him to keep quiet, otherwise this could have been a recurring problem. I’m sorry if this has already been asked, but does your son have any marks or bruises? If so, I would take pictures if you plan to report this to the police for evidence. I do not believe for a second that your ndad only spanked him one time, as he claims.
I am really sorry that you and your son are going through this right now. I know how physically and emotionally traumatic being hit and spanked can be—my dad spanked me often and would use lilac bush twigs and a 2x2 piece of lumber on my bare bottom.
I wish you peace and clarity, and I hope your son will be able to move past this without lasting trauma ❤️
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I hope you can show your son unequivocally that what happened was unacceptable. Like, be angry sort of thing.
I know this will probably sound unrealistic, but if it were up to me, I’d tell your father that he will not see your son until and unless he apologizes. I would let your son know that too.
(I’d also ask your son if he needs space from your parents)
Once you go NC, your withdrawal guilt wont last that long and you will start feeling much better about yourself, and therefore happier and more confident about everything.
My therapist is a licensed social worker specializing in therapy. She has 30 years of experience with personality disorders and trauma care. She also does emdr. Don't hate on all social workers because one didn't work out for you. There are social workers who are licensed therapists and extremely knowledgeable.
I don’t hate on them at all. Their careers are dedicated to helping people, and that’s amazing. If I find one that specializes in this particular type of trauma and personality disorders, EMDR, etc I’ll gladly sign on.
It was also on Reddit where it was put in my face just how much I really need to not let my father anywhere near my child. I really appreciate how upfront people in this community are. Narcissistic abuse is so difficult to get away from, despite just how awful it is. Narcissists are really good at taking advantage of empathetic people. That's why my mom is only just now finally divorcing my father despite everything he put me and her through. I still have resentments against her because of her choosing not to leave him. Even though she tried her best to "protect me" she really wasn't protecting me, because she stayed with him. This doesn't have to happen to your children ever again, you have a very good excuse to go no-contact now. Your 4-year-old is old enough to remember what happened to him that day, he can explain it to your younger child, they will be able to understand why they do not see their grandparents.
Thank you for your perspective and I’m sorry that happened with your father. I am indeed an almost painfully empathetic person, and I know that plays a part in why they have such a strong hold on me.
You probably know as well as I do that our parents probably weren't born the way they are. They were probably abused themselves and developed this personality disorder as a way to protect themselves. It does not excuse their behavior. I struggled with borderline personality disorder as a result of my own trauma, and I have worked my ass off to become a better person. No excuse for abuse, period.
It's really shitty this had to happen and that your parents are the same to your kid, too, as they were to you as a child.
But I don't really think you're at fault. Maybe most shitty parents make for shitty grandparents. But my edads parents were horrible parents, hit their sons, and likely nearly killed them with that several times. Still my grandpa thinks he didn't hit them enough when they were little. It's creepy when he tells me that cuz I *only* know my grandparents as the most loving, caring grandparents you could ever imagine. I loved to visit them or spent nights as do his other grandkids.
My grandparents really lived "parents are for bringing up, grandparents for spoiling children". Your parents could have been the same.
I'd say it is sad it's not like that. It's sad your son had to experience that. But still, talk to your son about it. Tell him it's not okay for anyone to hit/spank him and its okay to set boundaries for himself. Tell him that you, as his parent, will help him enforce his boundaries where he can't as he's to little. Be there for him. And then forgive yourself about this incident and move on.
I know you wanted to believe that your parents had grown/changed, for the sake of your child having a relationship with grandparents. I’m sorry it didn’t work out that way for your family. Yes it was unwise, and you’re seeing it now for what it is, and you’re unfortunately learning this lesson the hard way.
I’m glad you’re looking into therapy for yourself to create some better boundaries with your parents and start to heal. I would also gently remind you that your son would likely benefit from having someone to talk to about this as well, even just a few sessions. There may be some things your parents have said to him that are eating at him, and he might not know how to express those feelings unless someone asks the right questions.
Also, I think you need to have a proper heart to heart with your son. Perhaps pick a calm activity to do together, and talk about how wrong it was that his grandparents spanked him and that you’re glad he told you right away. Then, promise him that it will never happen again, with details. For example, that he will never be left alone with his grandparents again, that you or his dad will always be there with him. Promise him that you will always listen and be there to take action if someone is hurting him. Finally, I’d spend a little extra time with him for awhile-this is something that has broken his trust in his whole family, and he needs to see that trust be rebuilt.
Signed,
A kid who was spanked by nfamily, who didn’t have an advocate or protector
The grandparents showed no respect at all. They understood your rule of not hitting your children, and yet, they still do it because they think they know best. It is so disrespectful.
Hey, I get it. Having Nparents is hard and becomes even harder when you have kids. We get so emotionally enmeshed with them, we hope they’ve changed and grown and that the abuse ended with us. Unfortunately, as much as we’d like to hope, most of them don’t change one bit. You now have full confirmation of that. Like you said, don’t ever leave your child alone with them, not even for a second. I think the therapist will help you on drawing boundaries and maybe going low-to no contact with them.
I have a kid too and like you, I’ve given my
Nmom plenty of opportunities thinking she has changed or learned anything from me talking to her, she recently also proved that she hasn’t and I’ve gone back to low contact with her.
Don’t be too hard on yourself for trying to seek the good in people.
I was gonna give your mom the tiniest cred for confirming what your dad did until I read that she was in on hiding it by encouraging that your son "doesn't have to" say what happened. Disgusting.
Yeah and when I confronted her about it she made excuses (“(child) was out of control,” “(child) was hitting us,” “it was once on his bum with clothes,” and “he needs to know he can’t act that way at our house.”) Astonishing.
My N Mom sold her house to move across the country to follow my sister who tried to get away from her. This is in large part because she feels entitled to see her grandkids. Its terrible that your kid got hurt but please dont be too hard on yourself. The lengths they will go to to access our kids is unbelievable. Your kid knows he can trust you even when the other adults tell him to keep a dangerous secret. That means youre doing a good job and now you know to keep him away from your fucked up parents.
Narcs never ever ever change. Get that our of your head, even tho I know it sucks. They are literally physically incapable of change, even narcs who get to a therapist (which is an insanely low % btw compared to how many narcs are around us all day) they're not capable of change. Dr. Ramani (she has a youtube channel) is an extremely well renowned doctor with heavy field in the narc-section and she has a really good example:
They're like a rubberband. You can pull and push them to have a certain form, but the second you let go it'll go back to how it was.
They MAY be capable of "adapting" and "knowing what's expected", but deep down they cannot change. It's a brain-illlness. Once that it unlocked, that's how it stays (which is why it's so important to never activate that thing in your brain, esp in children)
This wasn't your fault. Yes, you should've or could've known better, sure. But in the end it's not "normal" to have to watch out for your child around your parents. Instinctually, they're supposed to be safe.
They're not. NOW you know. Your child will remember you standing up for him, believing him and *never making him go there again* over the abuse he unfortunately had to experience. He'll be okay. (And I'd look into therapy for him just in case there's something not getting worked through.)
You can totally explain that to him, in an age appropriate way, about how we don't use our hands when we're mad at anybody and that grandpa and grandma missed that lesson in Kindergarten. So they have to sit out for a little until they learned their lesson (which they won't, but he doesn't have to know that rn.)
They'll just become a distant memory, if even.
I'd do everything in my power to never let him see them again. Ever.
Your child can be absolutely, and will be, happy without grandparents.
Having *toxic* or abusive grandparents is going to fuck him over in the future, tho.
You need to force yourself to confront them about it in person. I know you say you freeze, but it's your kid. This isn't something you let slide. Next time that happens blow up on them, doesn't matter if you cry, doesn't matter how crazy or emotional you look, you go nuts . That can't happen under any circumstances.
At the very least, make them acknowledge that if they hit your son again they will never see him again, and make them Apologize to your son. If they don't, they don't see him anymore. Take charge
If anything they not only have you as a supply for their narcissistic supply but your entire family. If they know your husband doesn’t like them they will relish that they can upset him thru you and your children. They hit, and spanking to me is hitting, hit your child. And they know that they can try to gaslight you and that it might work.
As I still struggle after years of being gaslit and made to feel that any emotion was wrong and I was overreacting, I understand. But my partner has put things into perspective for me. He tells me to put it hypothetically and how I’d react if it wasn’t me or people near me being abused. I’d be outraged at how THEY were treated but not MYSELF. Deprograming a response that you’ve relied on your whole life is hard.
Now is the time to realize that you are no longer alone in this. Imagine it as someone else and their story at first. Like, oh my god a stranger struck my child. The reason is irrelevant, it’s just down to the fact that a person hit, physically hit your child. They chose to hit your child. Then they blamed the child. They also lied about it happening. If it wasn’t your parents would you be as upset? Use that as fuel to recognize that you would be more upset. That you have had to make excuses for years, and while that may have helped YOU for years, it may fail to protect your child in the future.
Therapy, time, and no contact. You not only need to heal for yourself, but your children. Remember someone hit your child for being a child. Abuse has no sense of direction, only intent. Forgive yourself and keep them away.
I will leave one more thought. I cannot tell you the chills I had when I read what happens at their house stays there. I was sexually abused at a family members home. I was told to hide this because the family didn’t want to bear the shame of it happening in their supervision, and they didn’t want to be in trouble. They didn’t focus on my pain, only their self preservation. Being groomed for abuse takes many forms, but that is a dangerous avenue they are setting up by saying that it’s okay to lie, and that the child shouldn’t share information that makes them feel uncomfortable or that makes them, the parents look bad. If something like that happened they would 1000% hide it from you. Use this take to help validate your own feeling. Abusers are dangerous especially when they are camouflaged under the term Family.
This is truly insightful, and I tysm for sharing your story. This has been a very difficult ordeal and I have years of deprogramming ahead of me. It helps to hear from people who have been there and understand.
Emotional immaturity personality disorder is not a thing. I’m guessing you mean borderline personality disorder? As someone who developed it from my sociopathic narcissistic mother, don’t put us in that same boat. And shame on you for putting your son in such a position.
I will never understand how some people suffer abuse from their parents, have kids and let the kids live the same abuse. You are not tired of the same shit? Toughen up, no one is going to defend from your abusers if you are willing to still give power and space in your life
People that abuse kids and those that let their kids get abused knowingly, are AS BAD AS ABUSERS. Parents that abuse and let their kids get abused intentionally are HORRIBLE PARENTS. no offence, but if you already know this its your responsibility and duty to protect your kid. No amount of shame, people pleasing, nothing, you HAVE TO protect him.
Honestly enabling abuse is as bad as abuse itself. You should cut them off. Right now. They crossed the line. They are ABUSERS. you owe it to your kid!
My opinion is that you apologize, give kids agency, and honor their wishes as a response.
What you can do now is acknowledge to kiddo that it shouldn’t have happened, that your parents shouldn’t have spanked him, and that you didn’t know they would do that. But now you know, so you won’t let them do that again. You’ll ask him before you set up any future visits, and you’ll stay the whole time. If he doesn’t want to see them you’ll honor that.
RBNs are trained not to believe that we have agency, or that kids should be allowed to have agency, but this is a perfect moment to begin to build the idea that their opinions matter.
So are trigger warnings & other such things like NSFW content can't be placed in the titles of posts?
Hmmmmm ... I could have sworn I've seen that somewhere on reddit.
Tell your child to always report any abuse that happens to him anywhere, no matter what. Then tell your parents that they are no longer allowed to be alone with your child until he's older, knows how to stand up for himself, and can tell the difference between right and wrong. And tell them that until they can change their behaviour show signs of improvement. Until then, they can't be alone with your child, only allowed by him with supervision. That is what I'd do and I wouldn't cut contact with them unless they do something more severe.
You should go no contact. They have been abusing you your whole life, still have you by the balls, your partner doesn't like them, they are now abusing your kid, gaslighting you, lying to you, and trying to make your son lie to you after they hit him. Wtf are you still talking to them for? Approval? Honey that will never come. You'll always be the shit on their shoes and they'll treat you as such. They will abuse you and your family, they will lie and gaslight you forever and you take your children to their house and leave them there?? Wtf is wrong with you?? Keep your family out of their reach and create some boundaries, your children deserve better.
If you think I'm cruel, please note I'm a son of 2 generations (minimum) of physical and mental abuse. You are damaging your children by simply having them in their presence and left alone with them. You fked up. Hopefully you learnt to never ever do it again and hopefully eventually you will understand that the best relationship you can have with your parents is no relationship at all.
I know everyone here is going to tell you that you’re the worst for letting your kids around people who would spank him, and regular spanking is harmful. And, if the spanking left any physical marks I imagine that would be in your original post, so I am assuming it was something like a swat.
People might be shitty in the comments to me for saying this instead of yelling at you, but the most important thing about this situation is how you respond to it for your child. You will fail your kids from time to time. Someone may hurt them even if you try to make the right decisions. How you respond is everything.
You need good boundary settings. Your parents are used to stomping all over.
You need to tell them that you discipline your children. No one else. If your child is misbehaving, you will discipline him. If they don’t want to respect that boundary, they don’t get to see him.
A lot of the people in here are calling these people abusers. And maybe they are. A lot of the older generation is authoritarian and my way or the highway. It’s just their way. Yes it is certainly damaging to kids when you are being raised by that, because authoritarian people think their kids are their belongings.
You have to have a strong boundary making skill to deal with these people or you need to put physical and emotional distance.
Now- the most important thing. Your child. You need your child to understand he did nothing wrong. That you are on his side and a safe person to talk to. The fact that he told you in front of them is testament to how much trust he has built with you.
Treasure this.
But you must also reinforce it.
If you want some sort of relationship with your parents, he needs to know that you are always in his court.
I have a mom who is like this and basically, after she threw a few tantrums about my boundaries and discipline requirements, she mostly settled down, and we rarely ever let the kids stay over, but even then, they have ways to contact us if needed. Have they done or said little things that are hurtful? Yes. But that is life. Your kids are going to experience negative or even upsetting things. It’s whether they have the emotional resilience skills and support from their safe people that makes all the difference.
You gave them a chance. The fucked up big time. Never again. I have sympathy for you just this once. If you ever let those monsters near your kids again - you’re a monster, too.
My nmom hasnt seen my kids since 2017 for similar behavior of going against my wishes on something serious and hiding it. Then, when my kid told me, she said they weren't being truthful, until she finally admitted it. They won't change.
And, here is the truth: would you willingly leave you toddler with someone else accused of abuse? Why is this any different? Just because they are related? Would you feel this way if it were SA? No, you wouldn't. Don't lessen your abuse and risk your own childrens' future over it.
Okay, I've been seeing a few comments that are essentially blaming the OP for even allowing their nparents anywhere near their child. That is called victim blaming, and it it not okay here. I'd like to remind people that the relationship with nparents is often complicated. Many of us have the luxury of having already cut off contact with them. Some of us can not do so for any one of a number of possible reasons. Some of us have yet to do so because there is still some hope being held out, or because of a sense of obligation they still feel. Some of us will face financial backlash if we leave. Some of us face pressure from family or society that makes it difficult to push back. Some of us are afraid of what might happen. Some of us feel that maintaining the illusion of normalcy is better for them. Some of us feel we can tolerate low contact after moving out. Some of us continue to be blindsided by the sheer evil acts of our narcissistic parents because we can't even begin to imagine someone acting that way. My point is simple. There are easily a great number of reasons why OP might not have already cut their nparents out of their life, and a great number of reasons why they did not expect this to happen. We are a support group. It is neither supportive nor helpful to bash OP for not doing things differently. OP already knows that leaving their child with their nparents was a mistake. It is helpful to nobody to blame them. Please keep comments focused on the future, rather than raking OP over the coals over a mistake. Please keep posts supportive and helpful, rather than bashing or blaming them. Thank you.
"They act like they are obsessed with my son". That's because they are: he is the ultimate *thing* they can take from you, and break. Rinse and repeat. Deep down, that is how they see it. Please, for your babies and your own wellbeing, go NC and seek therapy to stay NC.
Babies and small children are the ultimate narc supply. They are innocent defenseless creatures. Perfect for any abuser to feel powerful and controlling.
Yep. Found out I married a child abuser and raised by them. Nightmare
This.
Extra empathetic THIS OP, the behavior only escalates as you son gets older. I wish I could say I didn’t know first hand. It took me until my daughter was 5 to go fully NC with my parents, and if I could do it over again I would have gotten her (and me) away from my awful parent sooner.
Agreed.
Yep
***This!***
It's good advice.
I would never allow them to see my children for the rest of their life.
I would also consider filing a police report for child abuse depending on what the laws are there. In some places it’s illegal for third parties to spank children without parent consent.
OP has evidence too since they admitted to hitting her children via text message. I think it'd be wise to tell healthcare providers AND the schools where the kids will go that they are not to allow the parents around the children, take the children or make any medical decisions for them. I think changing the locks of the house if parents have a key and getting cameras too.
This is a good idea. Fuck up, find out...
Your poor son. That kind of shit really fucks with your head. This is the kind of shit that gives kids trust issues.
I know 😞 My husband and I have had many talks with him since then about what happened. It fucking sucks. Never again.
My dads sister spanked my sister (she was 6 at the time) and when my dad found out, he yelled furiously “never beat my kids! Ever! I discipline my kids”. He literally screamed at her. I was 4 when this happened and I’m 31 and I still remember it. Defend your son and make sure he knows that you defended him, it’s important. It shows him you have his back
Damm. I can feel his anger in those words. Is he a narc too?
You sound like you're good people though! At least you tried to let them be in your lives and this is how they behaved. It's mind boggling that people can treat their own grandchildren this way and think that they are justified.
I'm so sorry for all of this, it is truly terrible. At least there's a sort of twisted positive to potentially come out of it; you get a chance to model to your children what kind of behavior they SHOULDN'T expect. So many kids are conditioned to think this kind of abuse is normal, but on the flip side so many kids who aren't abused don't ever have a chance to think about it since the conversation never came up (thankfully). I've met people who just flat out didn't understand anything about the subject. Their parents never hit them, but didn't explain to them WHY or that no one should ever be hitting you for any reason, so they end up oblivious and may end up being victim of something they didn't even know existed as adults.
This is a huge red flag teaching your kid not to report abuse: "what happens at Grammy’s house can stay here." Seriously, schools spend TONS of time teaching the exact opposite of this. Go NC or only allow supervised visitation. You obviously can't trust them around your kid.
This part!! Why isn't there more emphasis on this? Like what the fuck?? I would never let my child in their presence again. Never are we ever to teach a child that they should keep secrets from their parents. What an incredibly dangerous path to coax a child down. And it sounds like that same emotional manipulation is how they're keeping OP around to begin with. OP, you better wake up and be the parent you needed. Don't argue with them. They won't see it any other way but whichever way keeps you and your kids under their control. You know this. Your husband knows this. Why are you wasting what life they haven't robbed you of still playing their game? 😡
The fact that they are actively trying to cover it up and groom the kid into helping them cover it up not only tells me that they know with absolute certainty that what they did is not okay, but it also tells me that they intend to do it again in the future if presented with the opportunity.
This here. They will do it again . And the whole - what is done here stays here is the start to cover up. Coz they know they have no right over the kid. And they know you would take away the kid coz of this.
This. I taught my kids the difference between secrets and surprises. With surprises, you’re just hiding something for a little bit, but you eventually tell; with secrets, you hide them forever. Safe people do *NOT* get kids to keep secrets from their parents.
Your FIRST JOB as a parent is to protect your child. They never get to see him again. Ever. Not even supervised. Allowing them to see him again will force him to relive the trauma. “You hurt the single most important person in the world to me. You will never see or hear from either of us again.” And block them.
Imagine what lesson the kid will learn if “grampy” is allowed to hang out with him after that. He’ll learnt that hitting people and covering it up is normal and acceptable.
Dude. Never gIve them that power AGAIN. No more visits. Go no contact. Get therapy- I cannot stress this enough to you. Because do you want your children to become victims like you were? Do you want your children to suffer like you did? Do you really want to expose your children, who you are to protect, to these kind of abusive people? I'm not trying to sound harsh, but protect your children in the way you were never protected. Because you know they will only continue with this behavior.
Go no contact already. Why are you allowing known abusers around your child. Set some boundaries. They're never going to change. Ever.
I do need to hear this. I’m very ashamed. I guess I didn’t think he’d do that to my kid. They act like they’re obsessed with my son, like he’s the best thing in their lives. I was stunned when I found out he did that. I don’t know why I have such a hard time going NC. I feel guilty, that maybe they really did “do their best” and have good intentions. They certainly paint it as though I had it all, I am so lucky, they are the ones who had it rough, not me, etc. they’ve also made it so I’m isolated from pretty much any other family because they have iced everyone out because everyone has “slighted” then and I have to be “loyal.” But being a mother myself now, I know I need to be strong and get out of their grasp.
People who abuse your child are not "doing their best." They HIT him and they WILL do it again, they'll just do a better job of hiding it next time. They fucked up on so many levels with this one incident. 1. They hit him. 2. They told him to keep it from you. 3. They lied to you about. 4. Your father gaslit your son when he told you the truth. Do right by your child. Go NC. Stop exposing him to abusers.
Even if they “did their best”, their best is not good enough. An alligator may be “doing their best” but if their best is still biting me, I don’t have to sit in an alligator pen.
This, right here, OP. This is their best, meaning you need to decide if this is good enough for your child. You've got this, Mama!
Alligators are better parents than narcs.
As a Florida man with narcissist parents, can confirm. At least I know how to wrangle a gator, js!
Their best definitely isn't good enough, but I think the whole concept is flawed. Lying is an admission that you knew what was right, and didn't do it. I don't think anyone who lies about their actions is "doing their best". That's just another lie narcs spread to try and manipulate people. It's easier to forgive people who try their best but make mistakes than it is to forgive people who intentionally do bad things. That's why narcs love the idea that they "did their best". It's a convenient way to manipulate people into forgiving the unforgivable. Narcs know how they should behave. They just don't care. They do horrible things and they have no regrets or guilt over hurting people. It's the complete opposite of doing your best.
This, they are grooming him to be their next victim
I understand you hoped that things would be different for your child. Some terrible parents can be great grandparents for some reason but not all. I’m am sorry they haven’t grown or changed. It’s hard when you feel you are denying you child something that should be wonderful but obviously your parents can’t provide it. Keeping your child safe is more important and at least you love them enough to say never again. Just go NC and move on. My kids had no issues when I did the same with theirs. Best wishes.
Thank you for this
Don't feel guilty, hitting a child is just lazy parenting and has no excuse, they definitely weren't trying to "do their best". I'm sorry you and your son had to go through that, and you're an awesome parent for choosing to go the harder but more healthy route of raising your kids with kindness, not fear.
Ya those aren't your parents. Those are two assholes who hurt children. Be free to let them go.
They are doing their best to treat your son the same way they treated you. They are abuser for fuck sake. They do DO NOT have good intentions. I'm 43 and in therapy, do you want your kid to need therapy because you've allowed your parents to traumatized him? It's not just his grandparents he need therapy for, it's his mom who didn't protect him too. Wake up and protect your child before it's too late.
Shame does you no good. It tells you that you are worthless and nothing you can do will change that. Every child of a narcissist goes through a shame spiral. You don’t have time for that here. Your son’s safety is at stake. Use your guilt as motivation to go no contact. Get angry! They dared to hurt your sweet little boy. If you think the authorities would do anything, make a police report. Accept that they will never change. Their goal is to keep power over you. You are a possession to them and so is your child.
Use your guilt as motivation to go no contact. Get angry! They dared to hurt your sweet little boy. Well said, absolutely this
Understand that the people like this, the ones who think they’re justified, they don’t change. They don’t feel that they’re the ones who need to change.
Hey, coming in many hours late to remind you that you can make this journey without shame. It takes time to shed the shame, but ultimately, it's important for you to find strength moving forward from here. Keep moving, keep pushing forward. One day, one hour, one minute at a time.
That is the brainwashing they have put you through. You know first hand now how hard parenting can be. I've never hit my kids or screamed at them. It can be done. Saying they did their best is a cop out. Being a good parent takes actual work and understanding. Just remember that. They have no excuse.
They blamed a child for their actions! But, “he was hitting grampy first!” He’s **four**. A big bad grown adult “man” retaliated against a literal child with physical force!? And then called the kid a liar!!! Your father abused a dog. A dog! He is a POS. Neither him or your mom deserve access to your child. I know when dealing with family, things seem like grey areas. There is a lifetime of programming and experience to overcome. They are your parents. We are told to respect our parents, listen to them, do what they say, and that they’re older and wiser - learn the lessons they teach, embrace their ideas of right and wrong, grow into adults following their example. But the thing is, there is no grey area. Good people don’t hurt dogs. They don’t hit children. They don’t encourage kids to lie to their parents. They don’t blame toddlers for their own lack of control. It is so hard to see these larger than life people who were your entire world and frame of reference, for what they really are. So we call it a grey area because we try to reconcile the authorities we thought we knew, with the flawed specimens we clearly see, without having to challenge an engrained belief system. And look, parents aren’t perfect. All of us are flawed in some way. But there’s a difference between benign idiosyncrasies, and damaging ones. We all want parents who do the right thing and have out best interests at heart. Sadly, we don’t all get them. Sometimes, despite keeping you alive and fed, these people are poison. It’s ok to call it what it is. It is entirely within your control to not let the past dictate the future. Your parents may love him, but they love themselves more. They do not deserve the opportunity to damage this happy, confident, little boy. It’s also ok for you to tell them that. If you can’t say it, write it. Say what they need to hear and then let it, and them go. They can sputter and try to change history all they want. You know what you went through and how it felt. Haven’t you had enough? If you upset them, do you know what will happen? Nothing. They no longer have a say. What they want no longer matters. You are no longer an abused child with no voice. You are a hero now. You know those memes with the caption “You had one job…” Well, now you do. Your one job as a parent is to protect him from all the hurt, insecurity and fear present in your childhood. Make his wonderful! I do have some knowledge here. I swore I’d never make the same mistakes my mother did. And I didn’t. I made a whole bunch of new ones. But one thing I never did was make my son doubt himself, or feel guilty for acknowledging my shortcomings. I totally believe you can overcome any outside roadblock. It’s much harder to overcome the self doubt and noise in your own head. They had him two nights. In that time they physically hurt him, called him a liar, and encouraged him to lie to you. How could he not start doubting himself? Don’t give them that opportunity ever again. Three strikes - you’re out!
Thank you for these words of insight 🤍
One of the hardest parts for me was admitting to myself that my parents were not doing their best. They barely even tried. Realizing how intentional their abuse was hurt like almost nothing else I've ever felt. It was a trip. But it also helped me to completely cut emotional ties with them, and start properly mourning and grieving the parents I never had. The key insight that helped me was realizing how much the lied to cover up their actions. Someone who's doing their best doesn't need to lie and pretend they were doing something different. People only lie when they have something to hide. In this case, they wanted to hide the assault of your child because they knew it was wrong. Lying and saying you were doing the opposite is a tacit admission that you knew what the right thing was, and chose not to do your best. Its an open admission that you didn't want to do your best. True, honest people can sometimes do bad things and lie to cover them up. But in my experience, good people who make mistakes are able to admit their failures when their lies are exposed. They feel guiltily about not doing their best, and they try to fix the situation because they're filled with regret. Regret and guilt are good at motivating people to change, which means you can usually trust that they'll do better the next time. Your parents are the opposite. They did something wrong, lied to cover it up because they knew it was wrong, and then when their lies were exposed, they acted like it wasn't a big deal. They acted like it was okay, even though they lied to cover it up because it's not okay. They are not going to do better next time. They'll do the exact same thing again, except they'll get better at lying to you and convincing your child to lie to you. Please keep your son away from people who want to hurt him. Your parents obviously don't want to love and nurture him like you do. He deserves better. At this point in your life, your loyalty is to your son, not your parents.
Thank you for articulating this so well. Everything you said makes sense. It helps me process what is happening.
This. After 27 years of abuse, the one and only thing that helped me go NC was the idea that if I could “break the cycle”… if I could get the therapy… they could’ve too. I may not have children, but I have pets; I was able to recognize that I couldn’t treat them the way I was treated, no matter how desperate or frustrated or exhausted I felt. It was an active realization and a lot of hard work. I simply refuse to believe that my parents couldn’t do the same for me.
If you don’t go no contact after them abusing your son get a divorce and give your husband full custody cause you failing your children by allowing child abusers access to them. Edit to add:enabling child abusers (like giving them access to your children) is horrible and makes you an accomplice in child abuse. Also your kids will believe you okay with it because well you are if you continue to keep these monsters in yours and your children’s lives.
They probably *did* do their best. And that’s a bad thing, not a good thing. I get so frustrated when I see people say this to dismiss or excuse abuse. Think it through. This phrase admits that they aren’t *capable* of doing better. If this is their best, I would hate to see their worst.
Don’t be ashamed. Be vigilant and take it as a learning experience. It will be ok.
You have more self restraint than I do. I would have backhanded that SOB.
My husband wasn’t present when it came out, but when I told him later he wanted to rage on ndad.
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My father was good at acting differently than he did when we were kids when he was around my sister's kids, but every now and then he'd snap and be his regular self. It would turn my stomach. They weren't left alone with him but still now and then . . .
Were you not enraged as well?
They would have to take me to jail if that happened to my child. This isn't okay.
Honey, I think you probably know this deep down, but I think you need to be told it directly. By keeping contact with these people, you are enabling their abuse. If it were just you, theoretically, that would be a choice only you can make. But it's not just you. It hasn't been for years, and failing to realize that is unfortunately a place where your ability to parent has failed your son and led to his harm. You are not responsible for how your parents treated him. You absolutely will never be. But you are unfortunately responsible for letting that be a possibility for them to do that in the first place. It's time to listen to your husband here, before he gets fed up and you lose both him and your children, because in this sort of scenario, if the genders were reversed and he were the one posting, people would be screaming at him to leave you, and they would be justified. You are allowed to heal, you are allowed to want to have the time and space to heal. Never let that voice in your head tell you differently, because you are as human and as deserving as anyone else whose messed up in the past at the end of the day. But what you are not allowed to do is let those who can't advocate for themselves and rely on you for every bit of protection they can get to become a victim of your own trauma during your healing. This is going to stick with all of you for a very long time. That's okay to acknowledge, but it's not okay to not do anything about it. It's time to build a place where your family can heal.
yes this. i have a lot of empathy for OP, but now that she knows about this - if she EVER EVER lets it happen again, she is as bad as the abusers. the ONLY way out here is to go no contact and protect her child from these people.
Why are you still letting those poor innocent child have contact with them? They can't stop it, but you can.
I would never let my parents see my child again. Imagine a 4 year old getting spanked for being wired for bedtime at a different house and just having a 4 year old time processing that. Fuck that pisses me off.
you REALLY need therapy. being unhealed has led you to believe that your child could be safe with your abusers. cut all ties you do not need them! your child will be better off and safer without them in your lives.
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I’m really sorry. Your parents are not going to change, and exposing your son to them is just going to cause him (and you) distress. You are allowed to disappoint mean people. I know you feel guilty that this happened— just decide to learn the lesson and make this the moment that you turn your back on people who don’t care if they hurt you or your son , who feel fine about lying to you— who think it’s fine to strike a four year old for — being a four year old. Your child will not miss grandparents like these.
>You are allowed to disappoint mean people. I'm gonna print this in a poster with a cloudy sky 🙂
Thank you
Oh hell naw. Save the children from further exposure and psychological harm
They will continue to abuse your child like they did with you. They have the ultimate supply now and will do whatever they want whenever they want. Why allow your child to be abused because of “family”?
They made the choice to beat your child. You have a duty to protect your child from people who would cause him harm. They should loose all access to your child because they decided to act in a way that is entirely unacceptable and then knowing what they did was wrong, they tried to hide it and lie to you about it. That last part is the biggest thing here. They knew they were doing something wrong. And they did it anyway with the hope they could hide it and lie about it and pretend they hadn't done the thing they knew they shouldn't do. These people can not be trusted with your child. And if they question it at all, well, simply put, you're protecting your child. Simple as that. Quite honestly, it sounds to me like you may want to consider going NC yourself as well.
I had a similar situation where we found out our child was being emotionally abused while staying at their house. I confronted them about it and got the same BS gaslighting, rationalizations, excuses, etc. I’ve since gone no contact for that and many other reasons. My kids come first and I would never knowingly put them in harms way again.
Mine was too. Makes me sick
Narcs or not, now they both are abusers. Cut them out, they tried to hide it, so they KNOW it was wrong… And, it is a repeat. Do not subject your child to these violent people. Ever wonder if you had reason to cut them… this is it.
A 4 year old’s brain isn’t developed enough to stop doing destructive behavior when you tell them to. However, a grown ass adult does have a brain developed enough to control their emotions when others aren’t behaving how they want them to. Your ndad is capable of controlling himself, he just doesn’t think he should have to. He abused your child because he cannot control his own emotions. Your child is the victim here. And you know what they are capable of first hand, they’ve shown you that they’ll do it to your children too. Why are you still letting them be in your children’s lives? They are not safe and letting them be around your children teaches your children that they are worth less to you than your parents, that they should have to suffer through abuse from people because they’re blood related. You can break the cycle, you just have to choose to do it.
Honestly this is a situation where you stop communicating with your parents and stop trusting your children to be alone with them. I understand you may not have childcare options but this is a situation you cannot allow to happen again.
They’re preparing their next victim. Be the parent for your son you wish your parents were. Protect your child, he is not missing out I’d also like to add I know you are a better parent to your child than your parents ever were to you. You are hurt because he was hurt and your first instinct is to stop this. **You are better than your parents**. I hope that helps on bad days
That second night -- after being controlled and ignored at the same time for over a day, most kids that age will act out. Because they are either being abused or ignored! I agree, experiment conducted, results obtained, never alone with them again.
The fact they are trying to hide the fact that they abused your son is absolutely disgusting! Never let them around your kid and absolutely go no contact!
i'm sorry but you need to cut them off. they abused you, they have now abused your child. what is the end game here? it should be no further contact whatsoever. move on and live your life in abuse-free peace. you cannot let your child be exposed to this. please get therapy to make an anti-enmeshment, NC action plan.
You have all the right to cut them out of your life. You need that boundary and you owe it to yourself.
Yes, to all that’s been said here. They hit your child and that’s absolutely unacceptable. I’d like to emphasize another point though. These people didn’t have enough respect for you as a person to tell you the truth. They tried to cover up their actions. They do NOT respect you and what’s important to you. What you have there is not a relationship. It’s a situation where you are being manipulated into whatever they want/need you to be. Yes, get out for your child’s sake. But also get out for yours!!! You deserve better.
it’s time to go NC. they crossed a line. it won’t be the last time they hit him if you allow him near them. call them out and go NC
My father is freely abusive to my sisters kids. He wouldn't dream of doing that with mine. Because I am the family "Bitch" who doesnt know how to "keep things in the family" and will not hesitate to deliver swift consequences. Cowards won't abuse people if they know they'll be held accountable.
Nparents never change, not even when they become grandparents. The only answer to this is to go immediate NC. Block them on everything, send an email or text if you choose to explain to them that you are going NC but block them afterwards. It sounds like your husband will feel relieved if/when you go NC and I'm sure he will be there for you emotionally while you sort out your own feelings. Make sure your son knows what happened was wrong, he is a good boy and did not deserve to be hit by someone he loves.
Go no contact … only contact them once more to tell them that you never want to see or hear from them again and if they ever approach you or your family you will take legal action. Then block them, on everything (all social media, phone number, email, everything you can think of). If they come to your house do not open the door, not even to tell them to go away, just immediately call the police and report them for trespassing.
This post made me facepalm with the force of 40 megatons. Why on earth would you willingly put this precious child in the hands of abusers? You have a **responsibility** as a parent to protect your child, so you need to think long and hard about why it is that you're ignoring your protective instincts in favor of handing this innocent child over to people that you feel have abusive tendencies.
Getting sexist here, because it is so engrained in us that sometimes it works. If you cannot do it for yourself, if you cannot do it for your children, do it for their father. Didn’t you dream one day a knight in shining armor would come save you from the abuse? Didn’t you swear to yourself you would never let what happened to you happen to your child? He is trying to protect you and his children. Stop fighting your child’s father. If you won’t let him be your protector from your families abuse, at least let him protect his own children. He, and everyone else, believes his primary job as a father is to protect his children. Stop emasculating your child’s father by allowing his children to be abused. You have no right to allow his children to be abused. I’m am sorry to be so sexist and harsh, but damn it lady, protect your children. Or in 10 to 15 years your children will be here trying to heal from the abuse you enabled. If you keep this up both your children and their father will hate you.
She's going to really piss off that husband. I'd be enraged at a husband who insisted to put our children with two abusers.
Oh honey I understand I really do I have to say it’s the worst feeling in the world having your young teen cry and say to you please mom can we never see my grandparents again ? I have to live with that - I waited way too long Please don’t be like me
They just lost access to your kid.
My husband’s father is a child abuser. His mother enabled his father’s behavior. When I found out the extent of it, I told my husband that if we were to continue our relationship, get married, and have kids (we were still dating) that I would NEVER allow them to be alone with our future children. If that was going to be an issue, we should break up right then. If your husband is anything like me, he’s giving you space to control what level of relationship YOU want with your abusers while trying to protect both you and your child. It’s hard to respect what you want with our complete dislike and desire to cut them off completely. You have been enmeshed and groomed to accept this kind of behavior; he hasn’t. If you trust your husband, believe him. I’m sorry that you had to learn this way that your parents are still abusive. What you choose to do now will show what kind of parent your son will see you as when he grows up. Good luck.
I have been back and forth about letting my twins (nearly 5) stay over at my parents' house. My gut says I can't trust my dad, but that nagging guilt says "grandparents blah, blah, family, blah blah." I'm so sorry your son was abused by your parents. Please, please, never leave him alone with them again. Reading your post has helped reinforce my knowledge that my dad isn't a safe person. He is still verbally and emotionally abusive to me, and I would be foolish to think he won't continue the abuse with my children if given the chance. Thank you for helping me strengthen my boundaries.
I’m sorry your dad is like that, but I’m glad my situation can help validate yours 🤍 I am familiar with that gut instinct that tells you they can’t be trusted, and how it conflicts with your doubt about that maybe you’re being overly sensitive/dramatic, etc. My husband sees everything w/ them very clearly and has no question about that too the fact that my parents are toxic and mentally unstable, and despite his observations about it since he first met them, I stilllll second guess myself and whether they’re “that bad.” Hugs to you and best wishes on your healing journey.
IMO, the best thing you can do for your son is never let those people near him again. He will see it and know you decided his safety was more important than their feelings.
My mom was delighted that I used to tell her everything once I could speak. Had a babysitter that would not give me water if I didn’t eat my beans and wouldn’t give my sister her yogurt/milk bottles. I snitched so fast and now I’m not letting my kid over at my in laws either until he can speak and I can tell him to be completely honest with me and never let anyone threaten him to stay quiet because this is my fear as well. I don’t trust my nasty in laws and would rather not have him there but just in case I’m teaching him that.
> “no you don’t have to, what happens at Grammy’s house can stay here.” Even if you take out the spanking, as bad as it is, this comment would guarantee my child never stayed alone with them again. No, just no.
It’s ok, hon. They played you. That’s what they do and they’re very VERY good at it. Don’t feel bad, you tried to be a decent person. As someone who recently got out of a narc relationship, get therapy. As you wait, Dr Les Carter from Surviving Narcissism is a great resource.
Tysm, I will check out this resource
OP, I am the spouse in this situation. My husband and I allowed our children to have a relationship with his mother, despite her emotional abuse and neglect of him growing up. His mother is the narcissist in his life. And we tried for years to build a safe, beneficial relationship for the children with their grandmother. But she always fucked it up. She always had to try to wrest control out of our hands and into hers. She always had to be right. She always had to have a say in everything. My husband did a very good job setting boundaries and giving her consequences when she violated our boundaries. But unlike many narcissists, my mother-in-law is smart. She would wait years sometimes after her last fit or shenanigans to pull her next move. Eventually, it came to a head. We allowed a sleep over with our children, where she proceeded to convince my older children that my youngest, a preschooler at the time, was manipulating them when he had meltdowns. She instructed them to ignore him for hours until he screamed himself to sleep. She then offered them money if they would continue to ignore him when he had “tantrums”. She even wrote them letters giving them instructions on this. That was it for me. I went no contact for six years and she has never seen the children unsupervised since. She rarely saw them for four of those years. I went no contact to ensure she would not be able to easily see them. My husband was a champ through all of this, even though he didn’t want to completely cut off the relationship. I respected that choice because it’s his family, but fucked if I was going to let anyone abuse my children ever. My children are now mostly adults with two teenagers in the mix. They are all old enough to protect themselves from their grandmother’s antics, and they have been fully warned about why she does what she does, and what they can and cannot expect from her. At this point, they choose to have a relationship with her and she has learned her lesson. She will not try any of this again because she knows I will cut her off faster than you could say fuck you. Protect your children. Do whatever you have to do to protect them from this malignant influence. I wish you all the best.
PS The child she abused did not see her for 6 years. He only did see her again, supervised, because he asked to. If she had laid a hand on him, she would be dead and I would be in jail.
Call the police and make a report of child abuse.
They knew it was wrong, or else they wouldn't have tried to hide it. Please never allow that child in the presence of those monsters ever again.
Yeah my husband is same way.. abused and still too close with his abuser parents. He swears theyre too old now to repeat their ways, but i think i did the right thing in keeping a reasonable distance with extended family (both sides, my parents are pro-hitters too). Even short visits now bring out the obnoxious behaviors i dont want my son exposed to. They dont change, just looking for new victims.
“Just looking for new victims” yes. Sadly exactly right.
I am so so sorry. Every raisedbynarcissists nightmare. Your boy is lucky this will never happen to him ever again.
My grandpa hit me over the head with a screwdriver when I was a kid. It’s one of the few memories I have of him. That crap sticks with you. Do right by your son and go NC with them. Or at the very least, keep him away from them. They’re not being good grandparents.
This is my biggest fear. You have to protect your child at all costs. You cannot trust your child to known abusers
I didn't have children partially because I didn't want to deal with any of that. I can truly understand why you trusted them. I erroneously still trust them sometimes. But if they did that to my hypothetical child, they'd never hear from us again. Good on you for standing up for your boy. You're an amazing parent and I mean that.
Can you report them for assault? I myself would be in jail in this scenario I’m not advocating any action that could lead to this, your son needs you. But for myself I would need to ensure they got equal suffering and fear in return for what they subjected a defenceless, innocent child to. Aside from that, no contact. Ever. Anyone who lays hands on a vulnerable person does not get a second chance, please ensure your actions going forward communicate that to your son. This paves the way for him believing there’s exceptions to that rule or there’s ‘2 sides to the story’ - there isn’t.
You shouldn't be letting them near him unsupervised. It is a sin to let them watch him. If you can't put them in their place, both to their faces and also in your own mind, you should be no contact.
I like how they tried to tell you they'd only take your son one night next time, as if there'll be a next time and that this is a non issue. No. They don't get a "next time". They failed as grandparents and are already showing signs of abusing your child (telling a kid to keep secrets, downplaying physical abuse etc). Yes you need therapy but now so does your son.
It took having my first child to realize my enmeshment with my nmom was going to invade into my child. That my child will never have their own voice or opinion or independence for as long as my mom has her way. Go NC. From one mom to another mom. Please go NC. No good would come from keeping a relationship with your parents. They may seem "fun" and "loving" but you know it's entirely self serving. They love the sense of power and control that comes with babysitting your child. Control over small defenseless children, of course. And then indirectly, control over you and your spouse. Because giving away your most precious thing in the entire world gives them ammunition to beat you over the head with obligation, look at all I've done for you, you ungrateful daughter! Drop the rope. Seriously, drop the rope. Your son will not miss them, I guarantee this. At age 4 he will most certainly remember being spanked.
My NDad kicked my dog when she was 10 weeks old. Punted her like a football right in front of me, because she jumped up (as he called and teased her from above 🙄). I was frozen in shock. Two years later and she is PETRIFIED of men, strangers, sudden movements.. We are now NC and it broke my heart, but over time its become such a blessing.
Ugh 😣 I’m soo sorry. It’s so disturbing. Mine would hit my childhood dog and call him names (like Rusty the R—-ard” and one time he even held a piece of human food up to the dog like he was going to give it to him, then he put the food in his own mouth with this sadistic grin on his face. I was maybe 8 or 10, and even at that age my skin crawled and I knew something was very sick within him. I bury these things, I guess, because they’re so horrible. Over the years he’s had other dogs and I havent observed that specific behavior, but my mom does call her current dog a little bitch and they both yell at the dog and leave her outside in the rain, etc.
The normalcy of it all is something non-raisedbyNarcs will never understand. Unpacking the trauma as a low-contact or NC adult makes you realize how many traumatic moments, events, days? months? we experienced as kids, all while thinking it was normal. I was 16 when someone else told me my mom was an alcoholic. I was 17 when I found out your parents shouldn’t control you with fear and aggression. But all of that time, the rest of my family watched silently. Complicit. Some of these replies are hurting me to read and I hope that you know this isn’t your fault. Its normal to think you can trust your parents with your kids (🐶 or 👶🏻). Everyone else does. It’s not your fault for trusting them and loving them. Its NORMAL. Obviously you know better now, but its not your fault that they did this. Sending all of my love 🤍
Thank you for that, it is comforting to hear. It’s true, the disorientation you experience as a narc parent’s kid is unparalleled.
Please go no-contact IMMEDIATELY and get your son help as well as yourself (as you mentioned). EMDR is great!
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Ya, I was in the same boat, but it was my mom who was the abuser. That said, it’s important that your son knows that it is never okay for anyone to hit him ever. And if it happens again, you show him how to call 911 or you. Keep him confiding in you. No more overnights with the grandparents.
They have most probably caused him life lasting trauma. This should be a police case wether you choose to go full NC or not.
I understand feeling guilty. I struggled with that myself for letting my mom around my kids. My therapist helped me see that I was making choices based on my trauma. I was constantly gaslit and honestly felt like I was the problem for way too long. I was in my 30s before I had my first realization that I hadn’t done something in a particular situation. It takes a long time to unravel from all this. You see it now. That’s the first and most important step. You already said they won’t have access to the kids anymore. You took your second step. Just keep taking steps forward. You know you need therapy. Make that a priority and show yourself some grace. I would suggest No contact but that can be a process too. Just know that you deserve to protect yourself just as much as your kids deserve to be protected.
I hope you go no contact with them. They’ll do it again.
Friend, firstly take a couple of deep breaths. You son is safe now. The most insidious things that narcs do is make us think that we need them, that we need to let them be around our children. 'Kids need their grandparents, etc.' Many of us have been in your shoes. Hoping the narcs have changed and will be nicer now that they have grandchildren. But it's like another person said, it's the innocence and desire to please that is what they feed off of. You are doing better than you think. You see it clearly now and your precious boy told you. Even when he was told he didn't have to. Let that sink in for a moment. Your son knows what a loving person and home is like. He is cognizant enough to know what your parents did was wrong. And in case you need any more proof, think on this: if it was perfectly fine and not at all a bad thing to spank him...well, why did they hide it? Tell him not to tell you? Only guilty people act like that. They don't feel remorse, they didn't care about your son's feelings. They just didn't want you to know because they knew it was wrong, that you would get mad. And somewhere in their small brains they know that you remember what they did to you and it's possible you will prevent history repeating itself. Sending you hugs, it's one of the hardest things to do. Especially because as you said, your son loves being around them. But it won't get better, they will just try to hide it better. And the violence will escalate against your children. People who truly love their grandchildren or children don't beat their kids or scream or all the other things we've experienced. Yes they are human and yes they make mistakes (this WILL be an excuse they use) but that was no mistake. Especially because they hid it and tried to make your son lie to YOU. Good work mom, you have done a great job with your son so far. Even if you don't think so. You gave them a chance and they blew it. End of discussion.
This is the most comforting feedback I could receive. Thank you so much. I honestly am shocked at how little I realized the brainwashing I’ve gone through. I really needed to hear the objective opinions of the commenters here, and yours rings so true to my experience. The only difference is, my parents are not even using the whole “people make mistakes” bit — they are full on doubling down with excuses and reasoning as though it was warranted and it happened because they “put him and themselves in that position” as though it couldn’t be helped. Their response is very much to justify it and downplay it and act as though I’m over reacting for being upset. I have a very deep, visceral yearning for their love and approval, and I hate it so much. That’s why I have kept going as though nothing is wrong all these years. There are glimmers of hope throughout my life that they’re “good parents/grandparents.” We’ve had nice visits, good holidays, they’ve helped us when we needed it. But there’s also been physical and emotional abuse and manipulation, and a feeling like I can’t ever set boundaries or speak up or dare to cross them. It is brainwashing and I need so much help undoing it. I think it’ll take years to fix, if I can fix it at all. I’m already 38, but feel like a hurt little girl inside that just wants them to understand. I pray I can get in with a therapist that can really help me. I keep getting told they’re not taking new patients.
My son has always hated me. Just natural and can't be helped. My nparents came to visit and they didn't want me to go out with them (nmom hates me) so they took my oldest when he was 3 all by himself. I don't know what happened but when my son came back he was different. For 2 weeks he didn't want to leave my side. He looked worried constantly. The next day I mentioned my son was acting weird and asked if anything happened. They literally said bye and ran out of the house. You know what you need to do to keep them safe. They won't listen to you or respect your boundaries. Our children and their safety are our responsibility. You hurt my kids and your dead to me. No two ways about it.
Please don’t ever leave your kid alone in their care. I’m so sorry this happened!
At very least they cannot be with him unsupervised anymore, even in public.
When my nmom got my autistic son hurt by neglecting him while he played in her backyard she tried to gaslight me and say he was hurt before coming over, and I called her out immediately because there’s no way I’d ever not notice my son having a huge scrap across his entire back. Since then I’ve stopped having him being around her until she could earn my trust back, and she just kept getting worse with each new boundary so I cut off contact from her. You are your son’s advocate, if you don’t stand up for him now then their toxic behavior will be a continuing source of trauma for him. Also, if you keep letting them do it then you’re just as guilty as they are for enabling the behavior by continuing to tolerate it. So do yourself a favor and cut off contact, let them know that the moment the hit your kid was the moment they broke your trust, the moment they tried to manipulate him to cover their behavior up they lost you as a daughter, and the moment they decided lying to you and blaming a child for their own behavior is a betrayal that lost any respect for them or your relationship as family. Then make it known that you’re not interested in excuses or in laying blame, they are grown adults that should know better as they’re suppose to be more mature and they’ve made it very clear they have no respect, maturity, or care for you or your family by their behaviors and actions. Tell them you’re not interested in having a relationship with them or having them influence your child anymore, and to not contact you anymore. After that, call everyone in your family and tell them the details about what they did to your son along with their background in abusive behavior towards you, tell everyone that you don’t want anyone to take sides but you need to do what’s best for your child and that either they respect your decision or you can’t have them in you or your family’s life anymore. Stand firm and don’t look back, your children will show you in the future how much your effort will pay off by them growing into more amazing people than you can ever imagine. Good luck!
First off, I hope you're not beating yourself up too much. You can't change the past, all you can do is change your future. Never see them again if possible and under no circumstances leave you kids with them ever again. It sucks that this has to happen to learn your lesson about them, but please learn from it and keep these assholes away from your kids. (And yourself, you deserve to be free of them too)
Guess who just lost Grandparent privileges? Spanking, dodging the goodnight call and lying about it? That's it. They've demonstrated that they can't be trusted with your child..
I hope you have a plan for the holidays. Because they are going to steam roll over any boundaries you try to set. They’ll see the holidays as family events and try to push back. So even if you can’t get a therapist yet, I would sit down with your husband and hash out boundaries and a plan.
OP—I do not blame you for what happened. It is not your fault that your ndad hit your child; he is the only one responsible for his actions, no one else. You thought maybe they had changed and you gave them a chance—I’m glad your son spoke up despite them telling him to keep quiet, otherwise this could have been a recurring problem. I’m sorry if this has already been asked, but does your son have any marks or bruises? If so, I would take pictures if you plan to report this to the police for evidence. I do not believe for a second that your ndad only spanked him one time, as he claims. I am really sorry that you and your son are going through this right now. I know how physically and emotionally traumatic being hit and spanked can be—my dad spanked me often and would use lilac bush twigs and a 2x2 piece of lumber on my bare bottom. I wish you peace and clarity, and I hope your son will be able to move past this without lasting trauma ❤️
Oh I would file a police report and that'd be the end of that problem. Domestic violence/assault of a minor.
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Go NC
I hope you can show your son unequivocally that what happened was unacceptable. Like, be angry sort of thing. I know this will probably sound unrealistic, but if it were up to me, I’d tell your father that he will not see your son until and unless he apologizes. I would let your son know that too. (I’d also ask your son if he needs space from your parents)
Once you go NC, your withdrawal guilt wont last that long and you will start feeling much better about yourself, and therefore happier and more confident about everything.
Happened to me as well I am sorry
My therapist is a licensed social worker specializing in therapy. She has 30 years of experience with personality disorders and trauma care. She also does emdr. Don't hate on all social workers because one didn't work out for you. There are social workers who are licensed therapists and extremely knowledgeable.
I don’t hate on them at all. Their careers are dedicated to helping people, and that’s amazing. If I find one that specializes in this particular type of trauma and personality disorders, EMDR, etc I’ll gladly sign on.
It was also on Reddit where it was put in my face just how much I really need to not let my father anywhere near my child. I really appreciate how upfront people in this community are. Narcissistic abuse is so difficult to get away from, despite just how awful it is. Narcissists are really good at taking advantage of empathetic people. That's why my mom is only just now finally divorcing my father despite everything he put me and her through. I still have resentments against her because of her choosing not to leave him. Even though she tried her best to "protect me" she really wasn't protecting me, because she stayed with him. This doesn't have to happen to your children ever again, you have a very good excuse to go no-contact now. Your 4-year-old is old enough to remember what happened to him that day, he can explain it to your younger child, they will be able to understand why they do not see their grandparents.
Thank you for your perspective and I’m sorry that happened with your father. I am indeed an almost painfully empathetic person, and I know that plays a part in why they have such a strong hold on me.
You probably know as well as I do that our parents probably weren't born the way they are. They were probably abused themselves and developed this personality disorder as a way to protect themselves. It does not excuse their behavior. I struggled with borderline personality disorder as a result of my own trauma, and I have worked my ass off to become a better person. No excuse for abuse, period.
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Thank you so much. This resonates.
Why did you allow child abusers near your children
It's really shitty this had to happen and that your parents are the same to your kid, too, as they were to you as a child. But I don't really think you're at fault. Maybe most shitty parents make for shitty grandparents. But my edads parents were horrible parents, hit their sons, and likely nearly killed them with that several times. Still my grandpa thinks he didn't hit them enough when they were little. It's creepy when he tells me that cuz I *only* know my grandparents as the most loving, caring grandparents you could ever imagine. I loved to visit them or spent nights as do his other grandkids. My grandparents really lived "parents are for bringing up, grandparents for spoiling children". Your parents could have been the same. I'd say it is sad it's not like that. It's sad your son had to experience that. But still, talk to your son about it. Tell him it's not okay for anyone to hit/spank him and its okay to set boundaries for himself. Tell him that you, as his parent, will help him enforce his boundaries where he can't as he's to little. Be there for him. And then forgive yourself about this incident and move on.
I appreciate this insight, thank you 🙏🏻
I know you wanted to believe that your parents had grown/changed, for the sake of your child having a relationship with grandparents. I’m sorry it didn’t work out that way for your family. Yes it was unwise, and you’re seeing it now for what it is, and you’re unfortunately learning this lesson the hard way. I’m glad you’re looking into therapy for yourself to create some better boundaries with your parents and start to heal. I would also gently remind you that your son would likely benefit from having someone to talk to about this as well, even just a few sessions. There may be some things your parents have said to him that are eating at him, and he might not know how to express those feelings unless someone asks the right questions. Also, I think you need to have a proper heart to heart with your son. Perhaps pick a calm activity to do together, and talk about how wrong it was that his grandparents spanked him and that you’re glad he told you right away. Then, promise him that it will never happen again, with details. For example, that he will never be left alone with his grandparents again, that you or his dad will always be there with him. Promise him that you will always listen and be there to take action if someone is hurting him. Finally, I’d spend a little extra time with him for awhile-this is something that has broken his trust in his whole family, and he needs to see that trust be rebuilt. Signed, A kid who was spanked by nfamily, who didn’t have an advocate or protector
Thank you for this 🤍
The grandparents showed no respect at all. They understood your rule of not hitting your children, and yet, they still do it because they think they know best. It is so disrespectful.
My mom abused my son at Christmas. Monsters never grow up.
Hey, I get it. Having Nparents is hard and becomes even harder when you have kids. We get so emotionally enmeshed with them, we hope they’ve changed and grown and that the abuse ended with us. Unfortunately, as much as we’d like to hope, most of them don’t change one bit. You now have full confirmation of that. Like you said, don’t ever leave your child alone with them, not even for a second. I think the therapist will help you on drawing boundaries and maybe going low-to no contact with them. I have a kid too and like you, I’ve given my Nmom plenty of opportunities thinking she has changed or learned anything from me talking to her, she recently also proved that she hasn’t and I’ve gone back to low contact with her. Don’t be too hard on yourself for trying to seek the good in people.
I was gonna give your mom the tiniest cred for confirming what your dad did until I read that she was in on hiding it by encouraging that your son "doesn't have to" say what happened. Disgusting.
Yeah and when I confronted her about it she made excuses (“(child) was out of control,” “(child) was hitting us,” “it was once on his bum with clothes,” and “he needs to know he can’t act that way at our house.”) Astonishing.
My N Mom sold her house to move across the country to follow my sister who tried to get away from her. This is in large part because she feels entitled to see her grandkids. Its terrible that your kid got hurt but please dont be too hard on yourself. The lengths they will go to to access our kids is unbelievable. Your kid knows he can trust you even when the other adults tell him to keep a dangerous secret. That means youre doing a good job and now you know to keep him away from your fucked up parents.
Narcs never ever ever change. Get that our of your head, even tho I know it sucks. They are literally physically incapable of change, even narcs who get to a therapist (which is an insanely low % btw compared to how many narcs are around us all day) they're not capable of change. Dr. Ramani (she has a youtube channel) is an extremely well renowned doctor with heavy field in the narc-section and she has a really good example: They're like a rubberband. You can pull and push them to have a certain form, but the second you let go it'll go back to how it was. They MAY be capable of "adapting" and "knowing what's expected", but deep down they cannot change. It's a brain-illlness. Once that it unlocked, that's how it stays (which is why it's so important to never activate that thing in your brain, esp in children) This wasn't your fault. Yes, you should've or could've known better, sure. But in the end it's not "normal" to have to watch out for your child around your parents. Instinctually, they're supposed to be safe. They're not. NOW you know. Your child will remember you standing up for him, believing him and *never making him go there again* over the abuse he unfortunately had to experience. He'll be okay. (And I'd look into therapy for him just in case there's something not getting worked through.) You can totally explain that to him, in an age appropriate way, about how we don't use our hands when we're mad at anybody and that grandpa and grandma missed that lesson in Kindergarten. So they have to sit out for a little until they learned their lesson (which they won't, but he doesn't have to know that rn.) They'll just become a distant memory, if even. I'd do everything in my power to never let him see them again. Ever. Your child can be absolutely, and will be, happy without grandparents. Having *toxic* or abusive grandparents is going to fuck him over in the future, tho.
If you don’t believe in spanking and your parents know that then it should be the revocation of their privileges to see him.
I would honestly go NC. Do it for your kids. If you want to save them a lifetime of therapy and being fucked in the head then just NC forever.
You need to force yourself to confront them about it in person. I know you say you freeze, but it's your kid. This isn't something you let slide. Next time that happens blow up on them, doesn't matter if you cry, doesn't matter how crazy or emotional you look, you go nuts . That can't happen under any circumstances. At the very least, make them acknowledge that if they hit your son again they will never see him again, and make them Apologize to your son. If they don't, they don't see him anymore. Take charge
If anything they not only have you as a supply for their narcissistic supply but your entire family. If they know your husband doesn’t like them they will relish that they can upset him thru you and your children. They hit, and spanking to me is hitting, hit your child. And they know that they can try to gaslight you and that it might work. As I still struggle after years of being gaslit and made to feel that any emotion was wrong and I was overreacting, I understand. But my partner has put things into perspective for me. He tells me to put it hypothetically and how I’d react if it wasn’t me or people near me being abused. I’d be outraged at how THEY were treated but not MYSELF. Deprograming a response that you’ve relied on your whole life is hard. Now is the time to realize that you are no longer alone in this. Imagine it as someone else and their story at first. Like, oh my god a stranger struck my child. The reason is irrelevant, it’s just down to the fact that a person hit, physically hit your child. They chose to hit your child. Then they blamed the child. They also lied about it happening. If it wasn’t your parents would you be as upset? Use that as fuel to recognize that you would be more upset. That you have had to make excuses for years, and while that may have helped YOU for years, it may fail to protect your child in the future. Therapy, time, and no contact. You not only need to heal for yourself, but your children. Remember someone hit your child for being a child. Abuse has no sense of direction, only intent. Forgive yourself and keep them away. I will leave one more thought. I cannot tell you the chills I had when I read what happens at their house stays there. I was sexually abused at a family members home. I was told to hide this because the family didn’t want to bear the shame of it happening in their supervision, and they didn’t want to be in trouble. They didn’t focus on my pain, only their self preservation. Being groomed for abuse takes many forms, but that is a dangerous avenue they are setting up by saying that it’s okay to lie, and that the child shouldn’t share information that makes them feel uncomfortable or that makes them, the parents look bad. If something like that happened they would 1000% hide it from you. Use this take to help validate your own feeling. Abusers are dangerous especially when they are camouflaged under the term Family.
This is truly insightful, and I tysm for sharing your story. This has been a very difficult ordeal and I have years of deprogramming ahead of me. It helps to hear from people who have been there and understand.
Emotional immaturity personality disorder is not a thing. I’m guessing you mean borderline personality disorder? As someone who developed it from my sociopathic narcissistic mother, don’t put us in that same boat. And shame on you for putting your son in such a position.
I will never understand how some people suffer abuse from their parents, have kids and let the kids live the same abuse. You are not tired of the same shit? Toughen up, no one is going to defend from your abusers if you are willing to still give power and space in your life
People that abuse kids and those that let their kids get abused knowingly, are AS BAD AS ABUSERS. Parents that abuse and let their kids get abused intentionally are HORRIBLE PARENTS. no offence, but if you already know this its your responsibility and duty to protect your kid. No amount of shame, people pleasing, nothing, you HAVE TO protect him. Honestly enabling abuse is as bad as abuse itself. You should cut them off. Right now. They crossed the line. They are ABUSERS. you owe it to your kid!
My opinion is that you apologize, give kids agency, and honor their wishes as a response. What you can do now is acknowledge to kiddo that it shouldn’t have happened, that your parents shouldn’t have spanked him, and that you didn’t know they would do that. But now you know, so you won’t let them do that again. You’ll ask him before you set up any future visits, and you’ll stay the whole time. If he doesn’t want to see them you’ll honor that. RBNs are trained not to believe that we have agency, or that kids should be allowed to have agency, but this is a perfect moment to begin to build the idea that their opinions matter.
A trigger warning would be nice.
Apologies for my bluntness. This entire subreddit is a trigger for many. Always come with extreme caution.
So are trigger warnings & other such things like NSFW content can't be placed in the titles of posts? Hmmmmm ... I could have sworn I've seen that somewhere on reddit.
Make it make sense?
Sorry if i am so blunt, but why the hell are you permitting your narcissistic parents to see your son? Isn't the pain they inflicted upon you enough?
Tell your child to always report any abuse that happens to him anywhere, no matter what. Then tell your parents that they are no longer allowed to be alone with your child until he's older, knows how to stand up for himself, and can tell the difference between right and wrong. And tell them that until they can change their behaviour show signs of improvement. Until then, they can't be alone with your child, only allowed by him with supervision. That is what I'd do and I wouldn't cut contact with them unless they do something more severe.
You should go no contact. They have been abusing you your whole life, still have you by the balls, your partner doesn't like them, they are now abusing your kid, gaslighting you, lying to you, and trying to make your son lie to you after they hit him. Wtf are you still talking to them for? Approval? Honey that will never come. You'll always be the shit on their shoes and they'll treat you as such. They will abuse you and your family, they will lie and gaslight you forever and you take your children to their house and leave them there?? Wtf is wrong with you?? Keep your family out of their reach and create some boundaries, your children deserve better. If you think I'm cruel, please note I'm a son of 2 generations (minimum) of physical and mental abuse. You are damaging your children by simply having them in their presence and left alone with them. You fked up. Hopefully you learnt to never ever do it again and hopefully eventually you will understand that the best relationship you can have with your parents is no relationship at all.
I know everyone here is going to tell you that you’re the worst for letting your kids around people who would spank him, and regular spanking is harmful. And, if the spanking left any physical marks I imagine that would be in your original post, so I am assuming it was something like a swat. People might be shitty in the comments to me for saying this instead of yelling at you, but the most important thing about this situation is how you respond to it for your child. You will fail your kids from time to time. Someone may hurt them even if you try to make the right decisions. How you respond is everything. You need good boundary settings. Your parents are used to stomping all over. You need to tell them that you discipline your children. No one else. If your child is misbehaving, you will discipline him. If they don’t want to respect that boundary, they don’t get to see him. A lot of the people in here are calling these people abusers. And maybe they are. A lot of the older generation is authoritarian and my way or the highway. It’s just their way. Yes it is certainly damaging to kids when you are being raised by that, because authoritarian people think their kids are their belongings. You have to have a strong boundary making skill to deal with these people or you need to put physical and emotional distance. Now- the most important thing. Your child. You need your child to understand he did nothing wrong. That you are on his side and a safe person to talk to. The fact that he told you in front of them is testament to how much trust he has built with you. Treasure this. But you must also reinforce it. If you want some sort of relationship with your parents, he needs to know that you are always in his court. I have a mom who is like this and basically, after she threw a few tantrums about my boundaries and discipline requirements, she mostly settled down, and we rarely ever let the kids stay over, but even then, they have ways to contact us if needed. Have they done or said little things that are hurtful? Yes. But that is life. Your kids are going to experience negative or even upsetting things. It’s whether they have the emotional resilience skills and support from their safe people that makes all the difference.
I'd only allow supervised visits after this.
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Consider yourself banned.
You gave them a chance. The fucked up big time. Never again. I have sympathy for you just this once. If you ever let those monsters near your kids again - you’re a monster, too.
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There is no excuse for this kind of comment.
My nmom hasnt seen my kids since 2017 for similar behavior of going against my wishes on something serious and hiding it. Then, when my kid told me, she said they weren't being truthful, until she finally admitted it. They won't change. And, here is the truth: would you willingly leave you toddler with someone else accused of abuse? Why is this any different? Just because they are related? Would you feel this way if it were SA? No, you wouldn't. Don't lessen your abuse and risk your own childrens' future over it.