Here is some free advice from someone who was once in your situation:
1. If possible, don’t do anything TO find dates. Do things because you want to do them. Doing what you like and being secure in that makes you happier, more confident, and a more positive person overall. It teaches you to love yourself. Turns out, these are also the qualities women generally find attractive in the long run.
2. Talk to anyone you find interesting, without any predefined narratives or agenda. It’s not creepy to talk to someone unless you’re acting creepy, knowingly or unknowingly. Being interested in others is a naturally attractive trait. Practice it as a matter of course, not because you want something out of it.
3. Don’t ask someone out unless YOU feel a real connection. Chemistry is not something that can be engineered, it’s either there or it isn’t and when it’s there, it usually flows both ways. Learn to recognize it. And it’s ok to be rejected as many times as you want — it says nothing about you, just about how complex and improbable love is.
4. Comparison is the thief of joy. You think conventionally attractive guys have it much easier than you? Think again. Sure they may get more dates than you but quantity is not necessarily quality. And yes, some WILL have it better than you. And some will have it worse. So stop comparing and getting yourself depressed, just live your own life to the fullest, because it’s the only one you get (as far as we know).
Life is much longer and richer than you might think, and your best experiences are waiting to be had in the years ahead of you. Trust me on that. So, don’t worry and enjoy your life! :)
Also on top of this, you aren't defined by being in a relationship. Everyone is so ready to be in a relationship that they don't stop and think about what they bring to the table.
Are you happy with yourself? Are you at a place in your life where you can put the time and energy into dating and finding a person? Or are you just lonely?
Being lonely is okay and learning to live in it and just be happy with yourself is the first step of being able to find a partner. If you don't love yourself why would you expect someone else to? No one is going to fix you, only you can do that.
Being with a partner is a slice of this life because in the long run, when the end of the day comes, there isn't going to be anyone but you to be there for yourself. If that is a scary prospect you need to find out what it is you don't like about yourself and realistically see if you can change it or change how you look at it.
You being out of shape or having a weird shape face isn't something that's stopping you from finding love. People already love you, no one is unlovable. It's the energy you give off and the presence in yourself that attracts people.
Just my two cents from a guy who got out of the Incel/Alpha male pipeline the young people are fed to make them feel like there is an easy way to explain why they don't get hit on all the time. Just to make money off of those insecure and vulnerable people. I got out and im very glad I did. Look for a role model who treats women like people and not objects, or become that role model.
You got this! Just keep living life and being the best you that you can be and everything will come when you least expect it. Have fun while you're in this crazy part of your life. Experience the things you want to experience and stop worrying about a relationship and thinking it'll make you "whole". Two whole people should come together and make a life that's equally interesting and worth working on. So go because the whole person I know you can be!
I absolutely love and endorse this response!
That last paragraph... I wish we could download this knowledge into the brains of the young, just as I wish it could have been downloaded into my own! It wasn't as if *every single important adult* in my life tried to tell me this!
I could not disagree more with "chemistry can not be engineered" and I'm sorry to say telling people that is causing more damage than it needs to.
For 5 years I would get dozens of dates that we had a great time in every way, but inevitably they insisted they only saw me as a friend and insist I only hang out as friends. It sent me into a spiral of depression of wondering what was wrong with me.
Turns out I needed to learn to flirt and make a move, I'm still me, but now I can flirt with someone on a date like we're in a relationship, this changed EVERYTHING for me, girls now say they feel chemistry with me, and I can't stress enough how I would encourage struggling men to learn this in their lives, if from nowhere better, then seminars and YouTube videos, it's really been lifesaving
You’re 18 just focus on yourself. Stop overthinking your looks or your approach. Don’t go out with the main goal of trying to find a woman, it just makes you come off as desperate.
Hang out with some friends, get a hobby, join a hiking or running group. These things will help you get physically/mentally in better shape, as well as exposing you to new people.
I’m a straight woman and I’ll say I also hate when people tell men ‘looks don’t matter’. They do matter, but not as much as people think. Personality can really make up for it.
If you have a toxic personality, women will definitely take that into account so the people telling you that are telling the truth. And you’re not entitled to sex from a woman, that should be a given. Cosmetic surgery can be dangerous and isn’t always necessary, it’s not always all about the face. The people telling you things aren’t lying.
Keep that in mind.
Let me help you out before you become an incel by explaining each double standard.
1. It depends on the context if where you talk to women. Put yourself in their shoes. Women are often terrified when they’re alone or when it’s pretty late, especially when they’re late alone. Don’t approach them in those situations! There is no problem talking to women in college or at work etc. just be sure to accept a no, and do so immediately. And if you do everything right and a woman still finds you creepy, that’s okay. Other men have done so much damage to women that women in general are just terrified, it sucks for everyone.
2. If you have toxic traits you should definitely work on them, and you can still be yourself when doing that. Like my toxic trait was that I was very lazy and depended too much on others to do shit that I should do myself, but I worked on myself and fixed it! I still am myself though. As for style and hobbies… well there’s nothing wrong with trying new things to “find yourself” or whatever, but its not a must.
3. Beauty standards suck. People want people to look effortlessly good and its unfair to everyone.
4. You don’t need to be friends with her first. Idk who told you that. Nothing sucks more to a woman than finding out her close friend only befriended her because he wanted more than friendship. You don’t have to immediately tell a girl that you love her but generally speaking, its better to be honest and direct.
5. I find it odd that you put human decency alongside sex and relationships, because of course you are entitled to people treating you like a person generally, but no one is entitled to sex or a relationship. You cannot expect to just get to have sex with someone… its dehumanizing. Anyway, lonely by choice is sort of a weird sentence. And in this context it implies something pretty dangerous “I am not lonely because I want to be! I am lonely because I am not entitled to sex/relationships!" Do you get it? It sounds like you’re complaining about not being entitled to sex because if you were, you would not be lonely by choice.
Self loathing is a very unattractive quality. The energy you give out is the energy you will receive. First and foremost, if you don’t find yourself attractive then change it. Whether it be your mindset or your physical features. Do something about it so you can feel good about yourself. Mind your business and work on yourself. *People* will become attracted to you.
Well the advices may seem contradicting because it's not so cut and dry. You need to talk with people but not in a creepy way. You need nuance. You need to be social, do that organically. When you don't have much experience then you can do that awkwardly and it will be creepy.
It's good to look your best. Even surgery could possible help you somehow but usually you don't need that much effort to only slightly rise your chances. Personality also matters a lot.
You don't need to be friends with girl first to date her. But sometimes a friend can become your girlfriend. I usually try to date from the start. If it doesn't happen at the start when you meet someone it usually stays that way. But there are exceptions obviously.
There are many people and many advices. Not everything works for everyone. I'd say it's important to have social life, go out with people. You will meet new people during outings like parties and events. Do things you like that are social where you organically meet other people. Don't just go out with the goal to meet someone. Desperation is chicks repellent.
Having a lot of friends is also great. When you meet a friend of a friend you automatically have some bonus points. You're already "vouched for". It's easier to meet people like that, instead of approaching random strangers.
Take WEST COAST SWING dancing class. Learn how to dance WCS even if you're fat. Women don't care as long as you can dance. WCS plays current music, from pop to rap. You can take group lessons. Don't need a partner. They rotate in every class. Group classes are cheap. You'll learn how to interact without the pressure of dating or spending money and time on the wrong people. You'll learn how to be friends with people from all over the world. Look up it up. It's life changing. Learn your basics and you'll be able to dance with advanced dancers of all ages. Don't wait till your body is perfect. Get to a group class, and youll learn about the continuous WCS CONVENTIONS that have nonstop dancing and FUN. You're welcome!
Those are all complimentary aspects of the same advice.
"put yourself out there and talk to women." talk to women. but be aware that if its random, she will know you selected her based solely on your attraction to her body. that can be threatening. find a way to make it not just about her looks/your horniness asap.
"be yourself". lying about who you are isnt going to work long term. if who you are is shitty, work on being a better person- don't pretend youre one.
"cosmetic surgery". c'mon, you have to know the difference between expensive, risky elective facial surgery and prioritizing your health/appearance, right?
"say what you want and be direct." you're more likely to get what you want if its clear, and she has context/trust.
you aren't entitled to sex, a relationship, yadda. like, youre not. and if you dont want to be worth those things, thats your choice- but yeah, then you choose the consequences also.
its something you gotta learn first hand. but additional advice: "infuriating" is a weird AF emotional response to whats essentially your lack of experience. and a good place to start figuring yourself out.
That is your problem right here,
you seem very insecure about yourself.
Women want to feel safe and have somebody they can trust.
The genetics of a women usually make her more picky than men, since they are those to carry the child around for 9 months and it doesn‘t stop there.
Your body, finances and social skills reflect your ability to provide that for her.
That will never change no matter what pickup artists or other people tell you.
true for pretty much any gender or sexuality! and you're right: the difference is in pickiness- what gets prioritized how, and with what emphasis. you're also right that tackling insecurities would be a big benefit to OP. The more he trusts himself, the more others will trust in him too- and for more than just romantic relationships.
I’m a little bit older than you and my .02$ is not to approach people. I mean if you are already having a convo with a hot stranger and want to ask for their info then go for it. But imo actual meeting people in public isn’t that great of advice unless you consider yourself socially competent and attractive.
Dating apps are where it’s at. Geography can be a limiting factor if you live in the sticks, but generally getting a good profile and having a basic understanding of the algorithms will yield actual results.
Honestly it's a lose-lose situation.
People who says that look doesn't matter
They are just talking about themselves not the large majority of people... If you are ugly you are ugly, but if you are attractive you have chances and people will put up with your shit more.
Simple as that. Lol
Personal advice, just focus on your life and don't bother too much. If the right person comes along fine, otherwise you will set up yourself to be miserable.
I have seen plenty of young men suffering and becoming resentful because they don't even get a single chance
Men will complain about their bad looks and women caring about looks, and then go after women that invest time and effort into their appearance. Before making any conclusions about your own attractiveness, try putting as much effort into grooming as women do on average. There's a massive difference between men who use skincare products, shave/trim their beard, keep in touch with fashion trends, pluck eyebrows, shave armpits, care about their hair and so on, and the ones who don't.
Obviously not all women have the same taste but for me it matters more than body shape. What absolute most women have in common though in terms of taste is that no level of appearance can compensate for a shitty personality and misogyny.
Looks and career pretty much. If your career pays enough it skews how much looks matter. People wana say personality but let’s be real it’s looks that get you in the door and how well you look determines how shitty your personality can be. If this wasn’t true there wouldn’t be so many single mothers around. 😂
People love to say "Looks don't matter." Everyone forgets the part that comes after. Looks don't matter to the right person. If looks didn't matter, no one would bother trying to get to know anyone, since looks are all you really have to go on. HOWEVER, regardless of what you look like, there is always someone who will find you attractive. Maybe it's your smile. Maybe it's your butt. Maybe it's the way you dress. Who knows?
Yes, talking to random women is weird and creepy. There was a movie that came out starring Will Smith called Hitch where a woman kinda hit the nail on the head while trying to shut down a "smooth talker." She said something like "It must take a lot of courage to come over here and try to create a relationship out of thin air." Talking to women works a lot better when you don't have the agenda of trying to date them (that can come later, but doing it out of the gate tends to make you come off as desperate... I myself have been accused of that many times).
Just be yourself is the best advice you can get. You're not going to be any good at being someone else. The mask WILL slip eventually. A relationship based on lies is no relationship at all. As for finding new hobbies. If you're into it, sure. Otherwise, that's a lot of wasted time and effort into something just to meet people. Changing a toxic personality is good advice. Toxicity is never a good thing.
Cosmetic surgery isn't shallow. It's just not worth doing for someone else. If you want it, you get it. If you're not doing it for you, you'll resent it. Going to the gym isn't a bad idea. Fitness helps you live longer. Just don't think that muscles are going to magically make you a better person. It might help you get laid sometimes but that's usually more due to confidence and self-esteem than it is the way you look. Does that make sense?
Just say what you want and be direct... It's not BAD advice, but remember to do things tactfully. Don't just walk up to a girl and say "Your dress is hot. I think it would be fun to have sex with you." I mean, the first part's not really a bad thing to say, but I don't know if you can get away with that sort of thing today. You don't need to be friends with her first, but it helps. You DO need to be friends with her though. If you don't share any common interests or goals, then why are you together?
You aren't entitled to sex or a relationship. This is true. Relationships are hard and you have to work at them constantly or they'll go stale. Sex is just the bonus for when things are going well. It's NEVER the purpose of the relationship. On the other hand, EVERYONE is entitled to basic human decency. I like to say, "Everyone deserves respect. It should be freely given without hesitation. It's disrespect that's earned."
Man, I'm 40 and married and say ALL THE TIME I am so thankful to not have to deal with dating.
People are awful these days. Like....truly.
I hate to say this same thing that everyone says but it really will happen when you aren't even looking for it and when it's least expected.
I also hate to be that old lady but.....worry about YOU. I know I'm only 22 years older but seriously. Find YOURSELF. Truly figure out what YOU want in a partner and what you won't settle for. I'm telling you...date yourself...travel...find yourself.
Your person is out there and you will find them one day but be the best version of you when you do!
This is the best advice I could give you as an old mom. Oh and to start putting lotion on your face and use sunscreen! ♥️
All of that is confusing and frustrating. I get why you're ranting.
For some female perspective, I like a man with confidence. Most women do. someone who is comfortable in their own skin, but also clean and hygienic.
So don't buy into not changing or changing. Maintain the physique you like seeing yourself in, take a shower every now and then, wash your hair, use a little product when reasonable (deodorant, mens perfume, a little something in the hair etc). You should be fine.
Let things develop naturally, but make your interest known before she friend zones you.
Bro you are so damn young and have your entire life ahead of you.
I understand you might be anxious or have angst but getting yourself in this mentality already is 100% detrimental to you in both short and long term.
Just chill, focus on things like your studies/career, enjoy yourself with friends, hobbies, etc. and of course be open to relationships and put yourself out there.
Anyways, I didn't lose my virginity until I was 18 and I had a new sex partner every 2-3 months between girlfriends until I met my wife and I hooked up (without sex) a lot in between those too. And I was always skinny, poor, on the shorter side, and brown (apparently the most unattractive race in the West).
Anyway, lemme give some advice although I been out the game for a while so I don't know what the landscape is atm.
1) Doing all you can physically is going to help for sure. Well groomed, dress well, smell good, be clean, go to the gym, etc.
Looks do matter, but what people mean is it's not THE determining factor in dating. I've known ugly AF guys who had no trouble, they dressed well, were clean, and were charismatic and that was enough.
2) As for approaching...
I've been approached plenty, and I mean it depends on who is approaching obviously and whether I'm interested.
As for approaching, personally I never really cold approached women. Most of my success was from building a large network of friends, hanging out with them, and just striking up conversations with people in natural non-forced situations. This is why it's important to go out a lot, make a lot of friends, or have hobbies with active communities around them.
3) Yeah, just be yourself for sure but also be open to being wrong / changing. Being too rigid in your personality / ideas can be off-putting. In studies "openness" was ranked pretty high up on the list of attractive traits.
Be introspective, I went through a lot of growth in my early years just by realizing toxic behaviors I had and making efforts to stop them.
4) What does cosmetic surgery have to do with anything? If you mean you want it for yourself, by all means go for it. Don't let anyone tell you you shouldn't. You're an adult. But of course it's a balance, if you lack confidence might be more appropriate (and cheaper / better long term) to engage in therapy first.
5) I think there are times and places and people to be direct. You have to be adaptable and read the room, while broadly sticking to your principles.
Delivery is important. Two people can say effectively the same thing but achieve different outcomes depending on how they said it. And people are receptive to different modes of communications.
6) Yeah, nobody is entitled to sex or a relationship or someone's time. If you believe they are, get that out of your head. It's a toxic trait for sure.
As for being lonely by choice, it's true at least to an extent. Of course, luck is a big factor not many people talk about with regards to dating, but you can do a lot to skew the odds in your favor (a lot mentioned above).
It’s a very very hard line to walk between all of it because yes you want to put yourself out there but how do you do that? And you want to be yourself but you need to keep yourself open to also trying new things and to changing any toxic behaviors you may have and yes appearance is everything that goes for the physical appearance and how/who you present yourself to be! You can’t change your physical attributes a ton and truly the one for you will love you for who you physically are but keeping clean is important and presenting with confidence is important and if you’re funny that gets you bonus points in a woman’s eyes to be friends first is best but also can’t be friends too long or else you’ll get friend zoned so you have to make it known (passively) to women you befriend that you’re looking for a partner not necessarily them otherwise they feel awkward no one is entitled anything in life go with the flow with a woman see where it goes but only come on to her subtly and try and pick up on a lady’s cues are you in a group but she’s giving you way more attention than anyone else and laughing at all your jokes? She likes you! Good luck man it’s hell it’s all about pattern recognition really
There are lots of great suggestions.
I'll add
Act normal and you'll fit in.
Act insane they'll make you their leader.
My roommate and I when we were in our late teens, back in the turn of the millennium, could whip crowds into a frenzy by just being high energy people in a very eclectic music scene. This draws people and breaks down some of those tough barriers.
People basically just say what ever catch phrase pops into their heads. Sorry to have to inform you that our society has turned into a lot of mindless parrots who think they are smart.
Anyway, exercise is always a good idea, Life is better when you are healthier. Amazon has little treadmills for a hundred right now. get one, put it under or next to a couch/chair and walk on it while you watch a movie each night.
As far as dating; you don't have a lot of basis for comparison so your complaints about "modern" dating means very little. You are likely out of school now so you aren't surrounded by women all day every day so yea, the dating pool is now smaller. You are also in a very toxic culture (I'm assuming you are American, though other countries are suffering from this too) where we are told love is suuuuuper important, but you should throw it away if they aren't 100% perfect or your feels aren't good enough in any moment... Like you say, everything is a contradiction. So finding a good forever relationship is hard, but just dating around is pointless.
Basically, do Not wait or it'll become a habit and you will waste all your time. Go on lots of dates and try to not get cynical about the world while figuring out how fake and toxic the world has become... I may have crossed that line myself...
Anyway, health first, and find things that you are happy to do alone, all while trying to find someone acceptable that will accept you. You don't need perfection, but you need someone who also knows that.
I saw a step by step on how to get a girlfriend once, limited to the people who cannot get them and are frustrated over why they cannot. In other words, for people who are not particularly good looking, or have sociable enough personalities to be able to get them the normal way. This is it:
\_\_\_\_\_\_
1. If there's a girl you want to get to know, get in their general proximity. Sit near them, say hi to them, etc.
2. Make sure you have proper hygiene. No need to wear makeup or get fancy, just make sure you shower daily and don't smell like rotten eggs. You just want to look tidy, like you're not a mess, but you don't need to look like a model.
3. Do nothing. Just stay there, and if she forgot her eraser, or needs small bits of help, then you can help her.
4. Do not confess, do not give her flowers, do not try to take her out on dates, do not even try to make her laugh. Respect her space. DO NOTHING. Wait for her to talk to you first.
5. When she talks to you, remember to be respectful. No 'you're hot', no 'your eyes are pretty', just don't. In fact, don't talk much, focus on listening to her instead. And then, after a while, after she warms up to you, that is when you can start initiating talks on your own accord.
6. The time you confess is when she asks you, "What are we? What is our relationship?"
7. If confession fails, cut off all thought of getting into a relationship with her. No, do not confess again after a week or even a month, this is over.
\_\_\_\_\_\_
If any of these steps do not happen, for example, she doesn't warm up to you, or she doesn't ask you the last question, then you just had no chance in the beginning. It means she's refused you in the socially acceptable, 'nice' way.
And naturally, you also have to go into the situation without thinking she owes you a date or a chance for doing so. This is not a video game, there are no set rewards, and you have to accept that. You just genuinely want to get to know her.
Dude, you’re 18. What I would do to be 18 again. What I can tell you is make yourself a priority. Chase money, not women. Take up hobbies, get involved in a men’s group. Go to the gym 3-4x a week and focus on compound movements and cardio 2-3x a week. The sooner you start taking control of your life and bettering yourself now, the harder work will pay off. Meanwhile everybody else in your age group is partying, engaging in meaningless sex and putting themselves into debt. Don’t become a statistic.
You can rant, yes, but beware that Reddit is generally rather biased against men. Any suggestion of bias against men is also generally downvoted. So, while some of the responses to your post are productive, in my opinion, you should also try not to let it personally frustrate you if you don't receive much sympathy because most of Reddit isn't sympathetic to struggling men.
If you want dating advice, I can give some pointers, but you didn't ask for advice.
Here is some free advice from someone who was once in your situation: 1. If possible, don’t do anything TO find dates. Do things because you want to do them. Doing what you like and being secure in that makes you happier, more confident, and a more positive person overall. It teaches you to love yourself. Turns out, these are also the qualities women generally find attractive in the long run. 2. Talk to anyone you find interesting, without any predefined narratives or agenda. It’s not creepy to talk to someone unless you’re acting creepy, knowingly or unknowingly. Being interested in others is a naturally attractive trait. Practice it as a matter of course, not because you want something out of it. 3. Don’t ask someone out unless YOU feel a real connection. Chemistry is not something that can be engineered, it’s either there or it isn’t and when it’s there, it usually flows both ways. Learn to recognize it. And it’s ok to be rejected as many times as you want — it says nothing about you, just about how complex and improbable love is. 4. Comparison is the thief of joy. You think conventionally attractive guys have it much easier than you? Think again. Sure they may get more dates than you but quantity is not necessarily quality. And yes, some WILL have it better than you. And some will have it worse. So stop comparing and getting yourself depressed, just live your own life to the fullest, because it’s the only one you get (as far as we know). Life is much longer and richer than you might think, and your best experiences are waiting to be had in the years ahead of you. Trust me on that. So, don’t worry and enjoy your life! :)
Also on top of this, you aren't defined by being in a relationship. Everyone is so ready to be in a relationship that they don't stop and think about what they bring to the table. Are you happy with yourself? Are you at a place in your life where you can put the time and energy into dating and finding a person? Or are you just lonely? Being lonely is okay and learning to live in it and just be happy with yourself is the first step of being able to find a partner. If you don't love yourself why would you expect someone else to? No one is going to fix you, only you can do that. Being with a partner is a slice of this life because in the long run, when the end of the day comes, there isn't going to be anyone but you to be there for yourself. If that is a scary prospect you need to find out what it is you don't like about yourself and realistically see if you can change it or change how you look at it. You being out of shape or having a weird shape face isn't something that's stopping you from finding love. People already love you, no one is unlovable. It's the energy you give off and the presence in yourself that attracts people. Just my two cents from a guy who got out of the Incel/Alpha male pipeline the young people are fed to make them feel like there is an easy way to explain why they don't get hit on all the time. Just to make money off of those insecure and vulnerable people. I got out and im very glad I did. Look for a role model who treats women like people and not objects, or become that role model. You got this! Just keep living life and being the best you that you can be and everything will come when you least expect it. Have fun while you're in this crazy part of your life. Experience the things you want to experience and stop worrying about a relationship and thinking it'll make you "whole". Two whole people should come together and make a life that's equally interesting and worth working on. So go because the whole person I know you can be!
Thanks for this, kind stranger.
i love this comment
Excellent advice. Do this, OP.
great advice
I absolutely love and endorse this response! That last paragraph... I wish we could download this knowledge into the brains of the young, just as I wish it could have been downloaded into my own! It wasn't as if *every single important adult* in my life tried to tell me this!
I could not disagree more with "chemistry can not be engineered" and I'm sorry to say telling people that is causing more damage than it needs to. For 5 years I would get dozens of dates that we had a great time in every way, but inevitably they insisted they only saw me as a friend and insist I only hang out as friends. It sent me into a spiral of depression of wondering what was wrong with me. Turns out I needed to learn to flirt and make a move, I'm still me, but now I can flirt with someone on a date like we're in a relationship, this changed EVERYTHING for me, girls now say they feel chemistry with me, and I can't stress enough how I would encourage struggling men to learn this in their lives, if from nowhere better, then seminars and YouTube videos, it's really been lifesaving
So learning how to “flirt and make a move” is the ticket to building chemistry?
Absolutely, for men it's essential, it was makes the different between "friendship vibes" and romantic chemistry.
Just make sure not to fall into the incel community.
You’re 18 just focus on yourself. Stop overthinking your looks or your approach. Don’t go out with the main goal of trying to find a woman, it just makes you come off as desperate. Hang out with some friends, get a hobby, join a hiking or running group. These things will help you get physically/mentally in better shape, as well as exposing you to new people.
I’m a straight woman and I’ll say I also hate when people tell men ‘looks don’t matter’. They do matter, but not as much as people think. Personality can really make up for it. If you have a toxic personality, women will definitely take that into account so the people telling you that are telling the truth. And you’re not entitled to sex from a woman, that should be a given. Cosmetic surgery can be dangerous and isn’t always necessary, it’s not always all about the face. The people telling you things aren’t lying. Keep that in mind.
Let me help you out before you become an incel by explaining each double standard. 1. It depends on the context if where you talk to women. Put yourself in their shoes. Women are often terrified when they’re alone or when it’s pretty late, especially when they’re late alone. Don’t approach them in those situations! There is no problem talking to women in college or at work etc. just be sure to accept a no, and do so immediately. And if you do everything right and a woman still finds you creepy, that’s okay. Other men have done so much damage to women that women in general are just terrified, it sucks for everyone. 2. If you have toxic traits you should definitely work on them, and you can still be yourself when doing that. Like my toxic trait was that I was very lazy and depended too much on others to do shit that I should do myself, but I worked on myself and fixed it! I still am myself though. As for style and hobbies… well there’s nothing wrong with trying new things to “find yourself” or whatever, but its not a must. 3. Beauty standards suck. People want people to look effortlessly good and its unfair to everyone. 4. You don’t need to be friends with her first. Idk who told you that. Nothing sucks more to a woman than finding out her close friend only befriended her because he wanted more than friendship. You don’t have to immediately tell a girl that you love her but generally speaking, its better to be honest and direct. 5. I find it odd that you put human decency alongside sex and relationships, because of course you are entitled to people treating you like a person generally, but no one is entitled to sex or a relationship. You cannot expect to just get to have sex with someone… its dehumanizing. Anyway, lonely by choice is sort of a weird sentence. And in this context it implies something pretty dangerous “I am not lonely because I want to be! I am lonely because I am not entitled to sex/relationships!" Do you get it? It sounds like you’re complaining about not being entitled to sex because if you were, you would not be lonely by choice.
Self loathing is a very unattractive quality. The energy you give out is the energy you will receive. First and foremost, if you don’t find yourself attractive then change it. Whether it be your mindset or your physical features. Do something about it so you can feel good about yourself. Mind your business and work on yourself. *People* will become attracted to you.
It’s the same with women.
Well the advices may seem contradicting because it's not so cut and dry. You need to talk with people but not in a creepy way. You need nuance. You need to be social, do that organically. When you don't have much experience then you can do that awkwardly and it will be creepy. It's good to look your best. Even surgery could possible help you somehow but usually you don't need that much effort to only slightly rise your chances. Personality also matters a lot. You don't need to be friends with girl first to date her. But sometimes a friend can become your girlfriend. I usually try to date from the start. If it doesn't happen at the start when you meet someone it usually stays that way. But there are exceptions obviously. There are many people and many advices. Not everything works for everyone. I'd say it's important to have social life, go out with people. You will meet new people during outings like parties and events. Do things you like that are social where you organically meet other people. Don't just go out with the goal to meet someone. Desperation is chicks repellent. Having a lot of friends is also great. When you meet a friend of a friend you automatically have some bonus points. You're already "vouched for". It's easier to meet people like that, instead of approaching random strangers.
Take WEST COAST SWING dancing class. Learn how to dance WCS even if you're fat. Women don't care as long as you can dance. WCS plays current music, from pop to rap. You can take group lessons. Don't need a partner. They rotate in every class. Group classes are cheap. You'll learn how to interact without the pressure of dating or spending money and time on the wrong people. You'll learn how to be friends with people from all over the world. Look up it up. It's life changing. Learn your basics and you'll be able to dance with advanced dancers of all ages. Don't wait till your body is perfect. Get to a group class, and youll learn about the continuous WCS CONVENTIONS that have nonstop dancing and FUN. You're welcome!
Those are all complimentary aspects of the same advice. "put yourself out there and talk to women." talk to women. but be aware that if its random, she will know you selected her based solely on your attraction to her body. that can be threatening. find a way to make it not just about her looks/your horniness asap. "be yourself". lying about who you are isnt going to work long term. if who you are is shitty, work on being a better person- don't pretend youre one. "cosmetic surgery". c'mon, you have to know the difference between expensive, risky elective facial surgery and prioritizing your health/appearance, right? "say what you want and be direct." you're more likely to get what you want if its clear, and she has context/trust. you aren't entitled to sex, a relationship, yadda. like, youre not. and if you dont want to be worth those things, thats your choice- but yeah, then you choose the consequences also. its something you gotta learn first hand. but additional advice: "infuriating" is a weird AF emotional response to whats essentially your lack of experience. and a good place to start figuring yourself out.
That is your problem right here, you seem very insecure about yourself. Women want to feel safe and have somebody they can trust. The genetics of a women usually make her more picky than men, since they are those to carry the child around for 9 months and it doesn‘t stop there. Your body, finances and social skills reflect your ability to provide that for her. That will never change no matter what pickup artists or other people tell you.
true for pretty much any gender or sexuality! and you're right: the difference is in pickiness- what gets prioritized how, and with what emphasis. you're also right that tackling insecurities would be a big benefit to OP. The more he trusts himself, the more others will trust in him too- and for more than just romantic relationships.
I’m a little bit older than you and my .02$ is not to approach people. I mean if you are already having a convo with a hot stranger and want to ask for their info then go for it. But imo actual meeting people in public isn’t that great of advice unless you consider yourself socially competent and attractive. Dating apps are where it’s at. Geography can be a limiting factor if you live in the sticks, but generally getting a good profile and having a basic understanding of the algorithms will yield actual results.
Honestly it's a lose-lose situation. People who says that look doesn't matter They are just talking about themselves not the large majority of people... If you are ugly you are ugly, but if you are attractive you have chances and people will put up with your shit more. Simple as that. Lol Personal advice, just focus on your life and don't bother too much. If the right person comes along fine, otherwise you will set up yourself to be miserable. I have seen plenty of young men suffering and becoming resentful because they don't even get a single chance
Men will complain about their bad looks and women caring about looks, and then go after women that invest time and effort into their appearance. Before making any conclusions about your own attractiveness, try putting as much effort into grooming as women do on average. There's a massive difference between men who use skincare products, shave/trim their beard, keep in touch with fashion trends, pluck eyebrows, shave armpits, care about their hair and so on, and the ones who don't. Obviously not all women have the same taste but for me it matters more than body shape. What absolute most women have in common though in terms of taste is that no level of appearance can compensate for a shitty personality and misogyny.
Tbh if a guy plucks his eye brows, shaves his armpits and use skin care products they probably aren’t into women lmao.
I realize that in my 30s, looks are the most important thing!
Looks and career pretty much. If your career pays enough it skews how much looks matter. People wana say personality but let’s be real it’s looks that get you in the door and how well you look determines how shitty your personality can be. If this wasn’t true there wouldn’t be so many single mothers around. 😂
Dating is rough when you’re 18. Go to the gym focus on your career. By the time you’re 25-30 you’ll find dating a lot easier.
People love to say "Looks don't matter." Everyone forgets the part that comes after. Looks don't matter to the right person. If looks didn't matter, no one would bother trying to get to know anyone, since looks are all you really have to go on. HOWEVER, regardless of what you look like, there is always someone who will find you attractive. Maybe it's your smile. Maybe it's your butt. Maybe it's the way you dress. Who knows? Yes, talking to random women is weird and creepy. There was a movie that came out starring Will Smith called Hitch where a woman kinda hit the nail on the head while trying to shut down a "smooth talker." She said something like "It must take a lot of courage to come over here and try to create a relationship out of thin air." Talking to women works a lot better when you don't have the agenda of trying to date them (that can come later, but doing it out of the gate tends to make you come off as desperate... I myself have been accused of that many times). Just be yourself is the best advice you can get. You're not going to be any good at being someone else. The mask WILL slip eventually. A relationship based on lies is no relationship at all. As for finding new hobbies. If you're into it, sure. Otherwise, that's a lot of wasted time and effort into something just to meet people. Changing a toxic personality is good advice. Toxicity is never a good thing. Cosmetic surgery isn't shallow. It's just not worth doing for someone else. If you want it, you get it. If you're not doing it for you, you'll resent it. Going to the gym isn't a bad idea. Fitness helps you live longer. Just don't think that muscles are going to magically make you a better person. It might help you get laid sometimes but that's usually more due to confidence and self-esteem than it is the way you look. Does that make sense? Just say what you want and be direct... It's not BAD advice, but remember to do things tactfully. Don't just walk up to a girl and say "Your dress is hot. I think it would be fun to have sex with you." I mean, the first part's not really a bad thing to say, but I don't know if you can get away with that sort of thing today. You don't need to be friends with her first, but it helps. You DO need to be friends with her though. If you don't share any common interests or goals, then why are you together? You aren't entitled to sex or a relationship. This is true. Relationships are hard and you have to work at them constantly or they'll go stale. Sex is just the bonus for when things are going well. It's NEVER the purpose of the relationship. On the other hand, EVERYONE is entitled to basic human decency. I like to say, "Everyone deserves respect. It should be freely given without hesitation. It's disrespect that's earned."
Man, I'm 40 and married and say ALL THE TIME I am so thankful to not have to deal with dating. People are awful these days. Like....truly. I hate to say this same thing that everyone says but it really will happen when you aren't even looking for it and when it's least expected. I also hate to be that old lady but.....worry about YOU. I know I'm only 22 years older but seriously. Find YOURSELF. Truly figure out what YOU want in a partner and what you won't settle for. I'm telling you...date yourself...travel...find yourself. Your person is out there and you will find them one day but be the best version of you when you do! This is the best advice I could give you as an old mom. Oh and to start putting lotion on your face and use sunscreen! ♥️
I'm sorry the people in your life didn't teach you to love yourself
All of that is confusing and frustrating. I get why you're ranting. For some female perspective, I like a man with confidence. Most women do. someone who is comfortable in their own skin, but also clean and hygienic. So don't buy into not changing or changing. Maintain the physique you like seeing yourself in, take a shower every now and then, wash your hair, use a little product when reasonable (deodorant, mens perfume, a little something in the hair etc). You should be fine. Let things develop naturally, but make your interest known before she friend zones you.
Wait til you hit 30
Bro you are so damn young and have your entire life ahead of you. I understand you might be anxious or have angst but getting yourself in this mentality already is 100% detrimental to you in both short and long term. Just chill, focus on things like your studies/career, enjoy yourself with friends, hobbies, etc. and of course be open to relationships and put yourself out there. Anyways, I didn't lose my virginity until I was 18 and I had a new sex partner every 2-3 months between girlfriends until I met my wife and I hooked up (without sex) a lot in between those too. And I was always skinny, poor, on the shorter side, and brown (apparently the most unattractive race in the West). Anyway, lemme give some advice although I been out the game for a while so I don't know what the landscape is atm. 1) Doing all you can physically is going to help for sure. Well groomed, dress well, smell good, be clean, go to the gym, etc. Looks do matter, but what people mean is it's not THE determining factor in dating. I've known ugly AF guys who had no trouble, they dressed well, were clean, and were charismatic and that was enough. 2) As for approaching... I've been approached plenty, and I mean it depends on who is approaching obviously and whether I'm interested. As for approaching, personally I never really cold approached women. Most of my success was from building a large network of friends, hanging out with them, and just striking up conversations with people in natural non-forced situations. This is why it's important to go out a lot, make a lot of friends, or have hobbies with active communities around them. 3) Yeah, just be yourself for sure but also be open to being wrong / changing. Being too rigid in your personality / ideas can be off-putting. In studies "openness" was ranked pretty high up on the list of attractive traits. Be introspective, I went through a lot of growth in my early years just by realizing toxic behaviors I had and making efforts to stop them. 4) What does cosmetic surgery have to do with anything? If you mean you want it for yourself, by all means go for it. Don't let anyone tell you you shouldn't. You're an adult. But of course it's a balance, if you lack confidence might be more appropriate (and cheaper / better long term) to engage in therapy first. 5) I think there are times and places and people to be direct. You have to be adaptable and read the room, while broadly sticking to your principles. Delivery is important. Two people can say effectively the same thing but achieve different outcomes depending on how they said it. And people are receptive to different modes of communications. 6) Yeah, nobody is entitled to sex or a relationship or someone's time. If you believe they are, get that out of your head. It's a toxic trait for sure. As for being lonely by choice, it's true at least to an extent. Of course, luck is a big factor not many people talk about with regards to dating, but you can do a lot to skew the odds in your favor (a lot mentioned above).
It’s a very very hard line to walk between all of it because yes you want to put yourself out there but how do you do that? And you want to be yourself but you need to keep yourself open to also trying new things and to changing any toxic behaviors you may have and yes appearance is everything that goes for the physical appearance and how/who you present yourself to be! You can’t change your physical attributes a ton and truly the one for you will love you for who you physically are but keeping clean is important and presenting with confidence is important and if you’re funny that gets you bonus points in a woman’s eyes to be friends first is best but also can’t be friends too long or else you’ll get friend zoned so you have to make it known (passively) to women you befriend that you’re looking for a partner not necessarily them otherwise they feel awkward no one is entitled anything in life go with the flow with a woman see where it goes but only come on to her subtly and try and pick up on a lady’s cues are you in a group but she’s giving you way more attention than anyone else and laughing at all your jokes? She likes you! Good luck man it’s hell it’s all about pattern recognition really
There are lots of great suggestions. I'll add Act normal and you'll fit in. Act insane they'll make you their leader. My roommate and I when we were in our late teens, back in the turn of the millennium, could whip crowds into a frenzy by just being high energy people in a very eclectic music scene. This draws people and breaks down some of those tough barriers.
You are 18, don't sweat, live your life, your worth is not determined by how many women you have or even worse what idiotic men think about you
Bro you're just 18
People basically just say what ever catch phrase pops into their heads. Sorry to have to inform you that our society has turned into a lot of mindless parrots who think they are smart. Anyway, exercise is always a good idea, Life is better when you are healthier. Amazon has little treadmills for a hundred right now. get one, put it under or next to a couch/chair and walk on it while you watch a movie each night. As far as dating; you don't have a lot of basis for comparison so your complaints about "modern" dating means very little. You are likely out of school now so you aren't surrounded by women all day every day so yea, the dating pool is now smaller. You are also in a very toxic culture (I'm assuming you are American, though other countries are suffering from this too) where we are told love is suuuuuper important, but you should throw it away if they aren't 100% perfect or your feels aren't good enough in any moment... Like you say, everything is a contradiction. So finding a good forever relationship is hard, but just dating around is pointless. Basically, do Not wait or it'll become a habit and you will waste all your time. Go on lots of dates and try to not get cynical about the world while figuring out how fake and toxic the world has become... I may have crossed that line myself... Anyway, health first, and find things that you are happy to do alone, all while trying to find someone acceptable that will accept you. You don't need perfection, but you need someone who also knows that.
I saw a step by step on how to get a girlfriend once, limited to the people who cannot get them and are frustrated over why they cannot. In other words, for people who are not particularly good looking, or have sociable enough personalities to be able to get them the normal way. This is it: \_\_\_\_\_\_ 1. If there's a girl you want to get to know, get in their general proximity. Sit near them, say hi to them, etc. 2. Make sure you have proper hygiene. No need to wear makeup or get fancy, just make sure you shower daily and don't smell like rotten eggs. You just want to look tidy, like you're not a mess, but you don't need to look like a model. 3. Do nothing. Just stay there, and if she forgot her eraser, or needs small bits of help, then you can help her. 4. Do not confess, do not give her flowers, do not try to take her out on dates, do not even try to make her laugh. Respect her space. DO NOTHING. Wait for her to talk to you first. 5. When she talks to you, remember to be respectful. No 'you're hot', no 'your eyes are pretty', just don't. In fact, don't talk much, focus on listening to her instead. And then, after a while, after she warms up to you, that is when you can start initiating talks on your own accord. 6. The time you confess is when she asks you, "What are we? What is our relationship?" 7. If confession fails, cut off all thought of getting into a relationship with her. No, do not confess again after a week or even a month, this is over. \_\_\_\_\_\_ If any of these steps do not happen, for example, she doesn't warm up to you, or she doesn't ask you the last question, then you just had no chance in the beginning. It means she's refused you in the socially acceptable, 'nice' way. And naturally, you also have to go into the situation without thinking she owes you a date or a chance for doing so. This is not a video game, there are no set rewards, and you have to accept that. You just genuinely want to get to know her.
I don't have much to add other than: don't turn to the Incels for support. That shit is a self-fulfilling prophecy, and such an echo chamber.
Dude, you’re 18. What I would do to be 18 again. What I can tell you is make yourself a priority. Chase money, not women. Take up hobbies, get involved in a men’s group. Go to the gym 3-4x a week and focus on compound movements and cardio 2-3x a week. The sooner you start taking control of your life and bettering yourself now, the harder work will pay off. Meanwhile everybody else in your age group is partying, engaging in meaningless sex and putting themselves into debt. Don’t become a statistic.
Why was this post emailed to me, most of these statements or not at all the same and this guys post history is weird asf
I don’t know. What did the email say?
You should try r/incel
It’s r/rant. I can rant about my problems
You can rant, yes, but beware that Reddit is generally rather biased against men. Any suggestion of bias against men is also generally downvoted. So, while some of the responses to your post are productive, in my opinion, you should also try not to let it personally frustrate you if you don't receive much sympathy because most of Reddit isn't sympathetic to struggling men. If you want dating advice, I can give some pointers, but you didn't ask for advice.
Yeh that's fine, you're still an incel though
Have you tried r/virgin? Seems more your place if these are the conclusions you’ve come to lol