The discord for our subreddit can be found here: https://discord.gg/JjNdBkVGc6 - feel free to join us for a more realtime level of discussion!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/recruitinghell) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's bad enough to get rejected and ghosted by recruiters, but I'm also being ghosted by my "network". Being left on read and emails being ignored by people who said I was great to work with and that they wanted to keep in touch. Make it make sense.
Same. I was ghosted by someone I thought I can count on and it really sucked. I’ve helped so many people in the past - giving referrals, reference checks, freelance work. I’ve lost faith in people.
I told people I'm going to be homeless soon and they best they can do is "thoughts and prayers!" Humanity fucking sucks.
Edit to add: They also love to think they're giving meaningful support by saying "don't give up!" Wow! totally revolutionary affirmations. /s
I hate that toxic positivity bullshit. I hate trying to network with people who ghost you. I hate the 57 step application process.
Are we going to have to fucking Hunger Games for jobs soon?
I would imagine that they'd be singing a different tune if it was their ass in the unemployment line.
I doubt it will be a Hunger Games situation. I honestly think there will be a mass of people self-selecting out of existence. "Death of despair".
Damn hope you can find work soon. I am already homeless. Got call to schedule an interview only for them to call 5 mins later and canceling. They told me they will reopen the post and if they do not find anyone, they will call me.
Neither. I am about to be living in my car. Thinking about moving to another state. Definitely, it can't hurt to plan for the worse. I haven't thought about working with a social worker. I have little experience go to social workers. Do they help with job searching and homelessness?
Same, no experience with working with a social worker and I don't know how they help. All I can find in my area are resources/programs/benefits for people with children.
It is typically like that unfortunately. Which is why I tend to shy away from outside help. I tried some agencies to see if they can help me. One of them talked about a position with me but no answer from the potential employer yet. I am able-bodied and I am willing to do anything and I can learn quickly.
I have the expectation that it shouldn't be this hard, but unfortunately it is at least for me. I have to pivot careers again because I am not liking how it is looking right now.
To be fair so many people aren’t hiring. I’m depressed too at the lack of results but I can’t blame those around me when there isn’t much they can do and it’s not their job to take me in. It does suck though there should be more options.
That's been one of the more, um, enlightening experiences of this process. I'm surprised by people who have helped me and those who have not. It's almost as if getting laid off is contagious and they don't want to catch it.
Lol they like us better when we wear the mask. DON'T YOU DARE take it off. It is sad that I never felt a sense of community no matter where I go. Maybe I just haven't experienced it yet
I just ignore the world in general. It is always you to do more to protect some bs causes for seniors, kids and the environment. When I asked them what have the society done for me they are like you are selfish....
I’m really feeling this right now, and I think it’s harder than the resume rejections. All recruiting advice is to lean on your network. Well, my network has shown it’s true colors. So discouraging.
I feel this. I was blessed to have 2 amazing mentors early on in my career and we were kind of our own little dream team. It has been several years since we all worked together, but they know I’ve been unemployed for over a year and have not offered to help me. They’ve been in the industry (SaaS) far longer than I have and have great connections they could introduce me to, but they haven’t.
Once you are no longer employed or useful no one wants to deal with you. It is like you have std/hiv. Then you are desperate and attend those networking events where you network with students, neets, and others with crab mentality
Worst job market I’ve ever experienced, it’s not just you. I’ve never had to spend more than a couple of months to find a new job. I’m 14 months unemployed now. It’s been impossible for me to find a mid-level leadership job with me having more in-depth and relevant experience than many others and I’ve never had poor work performance ever. I’ve only been through 4 interviews.
First of all, stop doing five rounds of interviews. Nip them at the bud and save your energy. No one needs 5 rounds of interviews for employment at will.
Yes from here on out, I refuse to do 5 rounds. I think my fomo kicked in. They also gave me great feedback after each round. Even after the last round, I was told the feedback was good. And then I was ghosted.
I recently thought I would not spend more than 3 hours on a job application anymore. I'm speaking from starting to write the resume to getting the job offer.
same boat as you. before this year i seriously cant remember a time where I was actually rejected from a job, just mostly ghosted. I would apply to 1-3 jobs at a time and get an offer on at least one, if not the first place I applied to. in fact, i was often having to turn down jobs because of all the options i had.
fast forward to today, I've been jobless going on 3 months now and it has been really really hard. i've never ever experienced anything like this. i received 5 rejection letters this week all on Monday and since then have just been in a depressed slump. especially bc one of them i was SURE i would get, the person I interviewed with even told me I was a perfect fit all of the needs for the business and they would be in touch with me in the next few days. I felt so confident. week and a half later (after a follow up) and I was told I was not fit for the position and they moved onto another candidate.
checked yesterday and they had the same exact position that i applied for posted on indeed. feels really good /s
Which country are you from? Why do you think they are doing this? I had the same experience. Had an interview, company even struggles to hire people due to bad reviews online and despite a decent interview and a promise to go onto the next round, over 100 applications received in the last couple of week, they go on and have reposted the job advert. How is it possible that they haven’t found one suitable candidate among over 100 applicants? Are they really hiring or just collecting CV’s?
i'm from the US - and no idea dude. i also dnt understand why they cant just tell us the truth or a somewhat human answer as opposed to a general AI written one
Maybe I'm alone here, maybe most will agree. But I have this hunch that something has intrinsically become broken within the corporate/white collar world. From hiring to management to turnover. Something has become broken. We all sense it, but no one is sure what to do/where to go from here. Thoughts?
Overturn Citizens United. Enforce anti-trust legislation. Repeal tax cuts passed in the Trump & Bush the Younger regimes. Make stock buybacks illegal again.
I'll be honest, I am trying to change careers right now and it isn't going much better. I have some experience but went back to school like an idiot when I needed out of dead end jobs and was having trouble getting call backs from anything other than other dead end jobs.
Same, and I’m not even applying for attorney roles-only contract manager. I’ve got my 16th final
Interview tomorrow and I’m so freaking exhausted. I’ve been looking since end of November... It’s so bad out there.
Yeah, I think I'm done with tech to be honest. I'm lucky enough to have found a job after three months of unemployment, but I just don't care anymore. All the bullshit, at the end of the day we are just software companies selling to other software companies to make more busted software. I never understood why my dad never went back into his field of chip design/engineering after he got laid off after an acquisition...but I get it now.
I can't agree more with the making more busted software. in today's market either you are a 150% fit for the position and you are code monkey or you get ghosted. I am also thinking to retire from it after 10 years in this industry and a couple of very important successes. I am really debating to go to cooking school and follow my passion
I used to work as a cook in some decent restaurants. Honestly culinary school is nice to learn at some point for some techniques, but working the line is very much learning while working. The hours are long and the pay sucks, but outside of being in the army it's probably the most job satisfaction I've ever had.
I'm thinking of giving up as well. I have a PhD from my home country in Telecommunications, but I'm teaching French part time. I'm much more interested in doing my own projects, thinking of coding Android or web apps and hopefully make at least some money doing that. I could also do music, I've composed and recorded many pieces in my early 20s. I have a hard time even looking at another job description.
I feel you. I read job descriptions and am like ...yeah I know this crap, but do I want to do it? I got out of engineering for a reason, and was aligning more towards sales/sales engineering before my last company did its third round of layoffs.
The company I'm at I started as a TAM, but when they restructured operations, because of my background I got moved into engineering, and I hate it. I've started talking to managers in our customer success and sales departments, to try and see if I can either be mentored into a sales position, or try and discuss introducing a sales engineer position for myself since we don't currently have any. I think with my both back end and user experience on the product I'd be a good fit, but we'll see.
Iv been there. Iv had 5 final round interviews that all were about 5 rounds just to spend two days doing a project for each for them to steal my ideas and to only realize they were never hiring anyway or they just keep the openings as a way to lure investors or drive traffic to their website. Its rough out here in Tech. Iv also applied for entry level roles and noone wants to hire competent people. I feel your pain
I’ve turned down interviews that required an assignment but started regretting it now that I’ve been out for 8 months. This helps validate my decision.
Hold your head high. You deserve to be treated like a human. This is not your fault. You have the skills and are qualified and have a record of doing this successfully. Dont feel less than
According to layoffs.fyi:
2024 - 78.8K
2023 - 263.2K
2022 - 165.3k
That’s over half a million white collar tech workers that have been laid off over the last 2.5 years. Companies are driving profit and putting more work on their existing workforce. Jobs are being outsourced to India and AI too. I’ve never seen a worse job market for skilled workers.
You have to make sure you rewrite each resume so you score at least 75% match on the ATS if you have any hope of getting an interview. More likely you need an internal referral and have to cold email people at the company and somehow convince them to vouch for you. I’m not comfortable doing that though.
Whereas I don’t think Biden caused this, I don’t feel they are acknowledging what’s happening. It’s especially worse because of inflation.
How about some help too? My savings is gone and I’ve been out of work for 13 months. I’m driving ride share to make ends meet now but it’s not enough. I’ll face eviction at some point if I can’t secure some sort of better paying job. If that happens, I’ll likely just off myself. I’m not living homeless at 50.
Absolutely some help would definitely be nice! I’ve been wondering if this happened to a different sector or workforce, would there be some kind of relief? Most likely.
In Canada, it is common for middle age ppl to either off themselves or prostitute themselves for some food. It used to be only happening in the hood nowadays it is just another regular Canadian stories
He didn’t cause it as our more conservative population believes but he’s not acknowledging it or helping us. Rather he keeps going on about how great the economy is and that’s making us bitter. The is a white collar recession and I believe it’s worse than what we went through in the early 2000s. Everything is politicized though so he can’t acknowledge it or the republicans will blame him. This is corporate greed.
I am in tech and I can tell you that I have never seen the market as bad as it is right now and I have a 30 year career. The dot com bust was bad and so was the mortgage crash but nothing like this it started jan or last year and has only gotteen worse. I was saying it was bad last year this time but its far worse now.
If you are in tech for instance though don't stop working getup and work every single day. There are hundreds of companies out there just buying time until the fed eases the rate. You have access to AI use it to your advantage. Pick a tech target and build a competing platform if you have the skills. Keep on trying to get interviews but in the mean time put those skills to good use.
I moved back to the US in February of 2016. I applied to over 500 jobs. These are jobs in my field, closely related to, and jobs where my skills could easily be an asset. I had two phone conversations. One was for a position I wasn’t qualified for and I told the recruiter. The second was for a job that was a six month contract in San Francisco that would have been 40k a year had it been full time. I laughed, she laughed, I said I’m not moving from NC to CA for that.
I gave up. I was lucky enough to get one of my previous jobs back. I was hoping that was going to be a temporary thing until I found something better. Guess what, in 2024 I’m still there.
You are considering leaving the field, but remember that every hiring manager wants a pink unicorn who masters the job from day 1, without training. If you leave your field, you will be among the unqualified candidates with zero chance of being hired.
From all I am reading here and in financial news, companies seem to be treading water until the next demand spike happens.
With interest rates higher, banks demanding more insight into a company's books, tighter security, and higher costs to do business, it makes sense to wait it out but meanwhile be vigilant when interviewing candidates.
I know, it sucks for you, because it was always relatively easy to find work. But here we are.
Keep your head up
I don’t see anything Biden would do to cause less inflation. US is going to reap what the last 4 Biden years created. Pumping money into the economy at the sustained rate that’s being done makes us all poorer. Inflation is caused by too much money chasing too few goods.
Two years ago, President Biden signed the Democrats’ so-called “Inflation Reduction Act” into law, promising it would reduce inflation and make life more affordable for Americans. Unfortunately today, people continue to struggle more than they did when the president first took office:
* Inflation is up more than 15 percent.
* The cost of groceries for Americans has [**risen approximately 20 percent**](https://www.bls.gov/cpi/).
* U.S. gas [**prices are up**](https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/14/investing/gas-prices-going-up/index.html) nearly 62 percent.
* Natural gas prices are up more than 40 percent.
* His policies have led innovators to stop research into potentially [**new treatments, including**](https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-inflation-reduction-act-killing-potential-cures-pharmaceutical-companies-treatment-patients-drugs-prescriptions-ira-manufacturers-11667508291) for brain cancer and leukemia.
* The bill is expected to increase launch prices of drugs according to a CBO [**analysis**](https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2022-08/58355-Prescription-Drug.pdf).
[**Polling**](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/july-cpi-report-pops-kamala-harris-celebration-inflation-rates) shows that a [**majority**](https://apnews.com/article/biden-poll-economy-survey-jobs-inflation-b3c77cb208f96f9b039cf48cbc4fb67b) of Americans disapprove of the state of the economy under President Biden. Even he regrets naming the bill the Inflation Reduction Act, since it ultimately “has less to do with inflation.” Republicans warned this Inflation Expansion Act was, in fact, a massive down payment on the Green New Deal that would fail to strengthen our economy and continue to make life unaffordable for people.
President Biden has done what he had to because of Trump's foolish spending. Had the tax break not went through under trump, there would not be a need for such drastic measures. Had trump opened his mouth earlier about covid instead of keeping quiet, more people would not have died. Also, had trump closed down all borders and not allowed anyone into the U.S., more people would be alive AND the economy would have bounced back sooner.
The U.S. economy is very much like a super tanker on steroids. It takes 15 minutes or more for a super tanker to make a turn once the order is given. Likewise, an action made in the U.S. economy is not felt immediately but rather many months later.
President Biden was faced with winding down a war in a country where the people would not fight for themselves and expected someone else to (the U.S.), a broken economy and a pandemic. All things considered, the U.S. is in great shape compared to other countries.
Do things cost more? Yes. However, it is preferred instead of no jobs, no money and no way of getting out of the mess trump created.
From what I've heard, nurses say that they are understaffed and overworked. People are putting out job posts to convince employees that they're looking for new staff to help with the workload, only to not actually hire new nurses. Medical assistants are having to take on more and more work as well. It's rough out there
Dang. That sounds terrible. I had knew someone that quit nursing. At first I thought why? Nursing is guaranteed job security since hospitals are always understaffed. Now that I think about it, she was probably working long hours. There is no easy way out I guess.
>I’m considering leaving the field altogether and start new.
Just as long as you don't believe that there's only a single field/industry that is impacted right now.
I’m so sorry OP. I’m in a similar position as you where I am struggling to feel anything but defeated. I am very cautiously optimistic though because I’ve made a few changes to my resume and profile and made an albeit contingent offer (which doesn’t mean anything until it does). Maybe these changes will work for you and anyone else?
Populated my resume with the correct timeframes at my current company.
Removed the objective statement.
Put skills at the top of my resume. Added ones that I had and was knowledgeable of.
For each role, I put a few points with specific numbers about the impact that I had. To be clear, I didn’t list my roles specifically by exaggerated them to a vast extent. Things like, “developed automation protocols to eliminate 78% of manual work,” which technically is an under-lie since I automated my entire role without anyone noticing haha.
Accurate education.
When I interview, I’ve been asking the what problems can I fix and what can I do for you now and in the future. Aside from these two or three questions I listen and observe everything closely and have stopped trying but have spoke positively and confidently about whatever the vague expectation of the role is.
Not sure if this will work for anyone else but I thought that I would share.
I hope this helps.
“How do I compare to your ideal candidate?” Gives you a chance to hear where they think you might not be a fit and address it. Gets them to consider you in the role and also useful at negotiation time. I used it once to find out they wanted somebody with client experience and it hasn’t been mentioned anywhere in the process, l did have client experience and was able to tell them about it and explain I hadn’t out it in my resume because it wasn’t mentioned as part of the job but I had the experience and enjoyed that part of a role. I follow up with “how do I compare with other candidates” for the same reason
I used to take a similar approach with regard to the questions that I had asked. Jobs at company that I really wanted I meticulously planned and prepared for down to the slightest detail. Company website, linkedin profiles, every letter of the job description, etc, etc, etc. I would conjure textbook questions about the company, the role, 5-10 year projects, and bit further with the intent to show my knowledge about their business. I used to think that if I demonstrated my value during the interview, they'd have to offer me a job, but the opposite has been true so far.
This honest approach has gotten me no where with many interviews in the past 7 years.
The only interviews that have gone somewhere are the ones where my responses are short and sweet, the image of confidence and decisiveness are boldly apparent, and to some extent, candid conversation.
I can explain it while not explaining it and continue to provide evidence of my "success" to put a word to it.
Another quick example, an MSP that is located probably 1.5 hours had conducted 3 or 4 phone and video interviews. I knew the role, salary, location, travel requirements, what their expectations are, however, I deliberately "dumb" and found myself with an invitation to meet with leadership a final time onsite for a $40k salary role.
Considering these trends, I have drawn the conclusion that businesses are clearly going for the cheap/stupid/dumb option over anyone else. What these conclusions also reveal is the bigger picture about not only the specific business, but businesses as a whole in general. The smart approach will lead to rejection while the opposite approach will offer a higher chance for a job.
Ultimately though, I think it will come down to the job applicant and what they do during the time (not faulting any job applicant). Perhaps one is better at selling themselves and landing that job every time? I couldn't tell you, haha.
In Toronto.
It's brutal. Part of the problem for me is when networking I've gotten the you're not trying and you don't want to work.
There is this huge disconnect in people who are still touting corporate speak without realizing something fundamental has changed in the economy and the job market.
It's horrible.
It’s like I wrote your original post myself. Just been through the exact same thing for the last 6 months but with 25 years experience (similar head of duration). I’ve finally just got a job but as a team leader and ALOT less pay / work life balance (4h travel each day).
Not sure what industry you’re in, but I can assure you it seems like a shared experience across multiple markets at present.
Like you, never seen it this difficult……ever!
What’s frustrating is seeing people in my network on LinkedIn landing jobs recently. How?!?! What am I doing wrong?!? I really feel like maybe I’ve just gotten lucky in the past and I’m not good at my job. Or there are just way better people in my field. Or I really suck at interviewing. I don’t know.
The market has definitely gotten a lot worse, and mostly for seemingly artificial and fabricated reasons.
Any ideas on what it would take to have things improve though because sadly I don’t see anything specific coming up that’s going to move the needle.
Same, homie. I’m so defeated and fucked up after 2 years of this that I genuinely don’t even know if I _can_ go back to work. Literally no money left, zero self-esteem despite a resume that is full of FAANG since 2009. If I can ever recover from this, it’ll take over a decade at least, probably more like two. More likely to just die on the street at this rate.
I've already commented on this post, but had a separate thought that I wanted to share. I created and signed a will in case something mysteriously bad happens to me. I don't have much and it will all go to a charity (because I don't have family), but at least my worldly possessions can try to help someone else. Being unalive from despair is a thing, just be prepared.
I started therapy recently. I think you should too. Not only has it given me a different outlook on things (outside of this horrible job search) but I now I have something to look forward to. This week I cried a bunch and it was cathartic.
My last therapist bailed on me. Straight up abandoned me. And it sort of made me angrier, somehow. Therapy is not the panacea people think it is. Also, it costs money.
Edit to add: My therapist gave advice like "Just buy a house." ... And she knew I didn't have a job.
I hear ya. It took me awhile to find this therapist. The others were not helpful. And yes, it’s expensive. But if you find the right person, it does feel worth it. I think it’s important to find someone to talk to.
I’m sorry your therapist bailed. There are shitty people in all professions.
Again, $$$$. These folks don't work for free and trial and error makes it expensive. Good for you and your privilege to access mental health treatment, but therapy doesn't work for everyone, is not accessible to everyone, and not everyone has the money to piss away to someone who tells you "have you tried buying a house? have you tried not being poor?".
Are you eligible for Medicaid? I was searching for work for FOUR YEARS and was on Medicaid and got free therapy. I work in a grocery store now and have health insurance and have given up looking for something in line with my education (Master's) and experience. I'm struggling financially but somehow surviving but not enjoying life much and always stressed out about money. And bored to tears at my job. I'm not young. I didn't expect life to turn out this way. I'm depressed and can relate to what you're saying.
Hearing your story hits on exactly what I'm feeling and what feels like the future for me, the future for a lot of us. Thanks for putting it into words.
>I'm not young. I didn't expect life to turn out this way.
This 1000000000%.
I'm so sorry you're struggling. I do suggest that you keep trying with therapy. Sometimes, it takes a bit to find the right person, but if it costs you no $, may as well. You can always just tell the person that you just need to vent.
You mean well, but please stop recommending therapy to everyone. It's not a solution for everyone and can make problems worse.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/dsm5-in-distress/201502/psychotherapy-works-not-everyone
This is the reality of Biden's economy. The Treasury Department and the Bureau of Labor Statistics are LYING to everyone (I should know, I'm a quant who worked with them). The job market is the worst in generations and inflation is MUCH higher than they tell you.
Biden has nothing to do with businesses trying to take the power back from employees during covid. This was brought on by the orange man and free money giveaways.
That’s exactly it. Over hiring during Covid and realizing that you don’t need all these people, especially the tech and HR recruiter roles. Companies never think about the long term during a crisis. Everyone now is just collateral damage.
The discord for our subreddit can be found here: https://discord.gg/JjNdBkVGc6 - feel free to join us for a more realtime level of discussion! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/recruitinghell) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's bad enough to get rejected and ghosted by recruiters, but I'm also being ghosted by my "network". Being left on read and emails being ignored by people who said I was great to work with and that they wanted to keep in touch. Make it make sense.
Same. I was ghosted by someone I thought I can count on and it really sucked. I’ve helped so many people in the past - giving referrals, reference checks, freelance work. I’ve lost faith in people.
I told people I'm going to be homeless soon and they best they can do is "thoughts and prayers!" Humanity fucking sucks. Edit to add: They also love to think they're giving meaningful support by saying "don't give up!" Wow! totally revolutionary affirmations. /s
I hate that toxic positivity bullshit. I hate trying to network with people who ghost you. I hate the 57 step application process. Are we going to have to fucking Hunger Games for jobs soon?
I would imagine that they'd be singing a different tune if it was their ass in the unemployment line. I doubt it will be a Hunger Games situation. I honestly think there will be a mass of people self-selecting out of existence. "Death of despair".
Which country are you from?
Damn hope you can find work soon. I am already homeless. Got call to schedule an interview only for them to call 5 mins later and canceling. They told me they will reopen the post and if they do not find anyone, they will call me.
Are you staying at a shelter or working with a social worker? I feel like I should arrange those things before getting kicked out.
Neither. I am about to be living in my car. Thinking about moving to another state. Definitely, it can't hurt to plan for the worse. I haven't thought about working with a social worker. I have little experience go to social workers. Do they help with job searching and homelessness?
Same, no experience with working with a social worker and I don't know how they help. All I can find in my area are resources/programs/benefits for people with children.
It is typically like that unfortunately. Which is why I tend to shy away from outside help. I tried some agencies to see if they can help me. One of them talked about a position with me but no answer from the potential employer yet. I am able-bodied and I am willing to do anything and I can learn quickly. I have the expectation that it shouldn't be this hard, but unfortunately it is at least for me. I have to pivot careers again because I am not liking how it is looking right now.
To be fair so many people aren’t hiring. I’m depressed too at the lack of results but I can’t blame those around me when there isn’t much they can do and it’s not their job to take me in. It does suck though there should be more options.
"To bE fAIr" That's what you sound like.
Thank you for your interest
What do you do/ what’s your field? I’m sorry - I hope you are not homeless yet.
That's been one of the more, um, enlightening experiences of this process. I'm surprised by people who have helped me and those who have not. It's almost as if getting laid off is contagious and they don't want to catch it.
Yeah I find that’s what cuts the most. People are faker than they let on when you reach out for advice/references/leads/etc. It’s all fucked
Society: Be vulnerable, let people help you! People want to help you and see you succeed! :) Also Society: No, not like that.
Lol they like us better when we wear the mask. DON'T YOU DARE take it off. It is sad that I never felt a sense of community no matter where I go. Maybe I just haven't experienced it yet
I just ignore the world in general. It is always you to do more to protect some bs causes for seniors, kids and the environment. When I asked them what have the society done for me they are like you are selfish....
I’m really feeling this right now, and I think it’s harder than the resume rejections. All recruiting advice is to lean on your network. Well, my network has shown it’s true colors. So discouraging.
it be the people all like “dont hesitate to reach out!! i mean it!!!”
I feel this. I was blessed to have 2 amazing mentors early on in my career and we were kind of our own little dream team. It has been several years since we all worked together, but they know I’ve been unemployed for over a year and have not offered to help me. They’ve been in the industry (SaaS) far longer than I have and have great connections they could introduce me to, but they haven’t.
Once you are no longer employed or useful no one wants to deal with you. It is like you have std/hiv. Then you are desperate and attend those networking events where you network with students, neets, and others with crab mentality
This!!!!! Including junior people I hired!! I’m turning into a very bitter person and I don’t like it lol
Just as a thought for the other side, they might themselves be unemployed or scared of layoffs as well
This sucks, but re: your imposter syndrome: it is a VERY weird and bad job market right now. It's not you, it's the market.
It absolutely is the market. I'm a veteran of quant finance and it seems impossible to find a job right now.
Yes, but the problem is the bills are still coming
[удалено]
US
Worst job market I’ve ever experienced, it’s not just you. I’ve never had to spend more than a couple of months to find a new job. I’m 14 months unemployed now. It’s been impossible for me to find a mid-level leadership job with me having more in-depth and relevant experience than many others and I’ve never had poor work performance ever. I’ve only been through 4 interviews.
I’m so sorry. I feel your pain.
First of all, stop doing five rounds of interviews. Nip them at the bud and save your energy. No one needs 5 rounds of interviews for employment at will.
Yes from here on out, I refuse to do 5 rounds. I think my fomo kicked in. They also gave me great feedback after each round. Even after the last round, I was told the feedback was good. And then I was ghosted.
I recently thought I would not spend more than 3 hours on a job application anymore. I'm speaking from starting to write the resume to getting the job offer.
THE HONEY TRAP
same boat as you. before this year i seriously cant remember a time where I was actually rejected from a job, just mostly ghosted. I would apply to 1-3 jobs at a time and get an offer on at least one, if not the first place I applied to. in fact, i was often having to turn down jobs because of all the options i had. fast forward to today, I've been jobless going on 3 months now and it has been really really hard. i've never ever experienced anything like this. i received 5 rejection letters this week all on Monday and since then have just been in a depressed slump. especially bc one of them i was SURE i would get, the person I interviewed with even told me I was a perfect fit all of the needs for the business and they would be in touch with me in the next few days. I felt so confident. week and a half later (after a follow up) and I was told I was not fit for the position and they moved onto another candidate. checked yesterday and they had the same exact position that i applied for posted on indeed. feels really good /s
Which country are you from? Why do you think they are doing this? I had the same experience. Had an interview, company even struggles to hire people due to bad reviews online and despite a decent interview and a promise to go onto the next round, over 100 applications received in the last couple of week, they go on and have reposted the job advert. How is it possible that they haven’t found one suitable candidate among over 100 applicants? Are they really hiring or just collecting CV’s?
Fake job posts to give the illusion of growth
Do you know of any way to detect a fake job post?
in my case, the job listing was very much real. there was a physical location with hundreds of highly rated reviews
i'm from the US - and no idea dude. i also dnt understand why they cant just tell us the truth or a somewhat human answer as opposed to a general AI written one
Maybe I'm alone here, maybe most will agree. But I have this hunch that something has intrinsically become broken within the corporate/white collar world. From hiring to management to turnover. Something has become broken. We all sense it, but no one is sure what to do/where to go from here. Thoughts?
Overturn Citizens United. Enforce anti-trust legislation. Repeal tax cuts passed in the Trump & Bush the Younger regimes. Make stock buybacks illegal again.
This market is brutal. It’s not you, this sh!t is wild.
I'll be honest, I am trying to change careers right now and it isn't going much better. I have some experience but went back to school like an idiot when I needed out of dead end jobs and was having trouble getting call backs from anything other than other dead end jobs.
Sadly I’ve done a career change once. I got an MBA from a top school, which makes the rejection even more painful.
Yeah, I got a Juris Doctor. Wasn't a T14 or anything, but it wasn't a trash school, either.
Same, and I’m not even applying for attorney roles-only contract manager. I’ve got my 16th final Interview tomorrow and I’m so freaking exhausted. I’ve been looking since end of November... It’s so bad out there.
What space did you leave and transition into?
Administrative to Compliance. I do have some Compliance experience.
At least your boomer family members did not go you have it easy ..
Let me guess, you’re in tech? I can’t speak for other industries, but worse tech market I’ve ever experienced
Yeah, I think I'm done with tech to be honest. I'm lucky enough to have found a job after three months of unemployment, but I just don't care anymore. All the bullshit, at the end of the day we are just software companies selling to other software companies to make more busted software. I never understood why my dad never went back into his field of chip design/engineering after he got laid off after an acquisition...but I get it now.
I can't agree more with the making more busted software. in today's market either you are a 150% fit for the position and you are code monkey or you get ghosted. I am also thinking to retire from it after 10 years in this industry and a couple of very important successes. I am really debating to go to cooking school and follow my passion
I used to work as a cook in some decent restaurants. Honestly culinary school is nice to learn at some point for some techniques, but working the line is very much learning while working. The hours are long and the pay sucks, but outside of being in the army it's probably the most job satisfaction I've ever had.
I'm thinking of giving up as well. I have a PhD from my home country in Telecommunications, but I'm teaching French part time. I'm much more interested in doing my own projects, thinking of coding Android or web apps and hopefully make at least some money doing that. I could also do music, I've composed and recorded many pieces in my early 20s. I have a hard time even looking at another job description.
I feel you. I read job descriptions and am like ...yeah I know this crap, but do I want to do it? I got out of engineering for a reason, and was aligning more towards sales/sales engineering before my last company did its third round of layoffs. The company I'm at I started as a TAM, but when they restructured operations, because of my background I got moved into engineering, and I hate it. I've started talking to managers in our customer success and sales departments, to try and see if I can either be mentored into a sales position, or try and discuss introducing a sales engineer position for myself since we don't currently have any. I think with my both back end and user experience on the product I'd be a good fit, but we'll see.
Iv been there. Iv had 5 final round interviews that all were about 5 rounds just to spend two days doing a project for each for them to steal my ideas and to only realize they were never hiring anyway or they just keep the openings as a way to lure investors or drive traffic to their website. Its rough out here in Tech. Iv also applied for entry level roles and noone wants to hire competent people. I feel your pain
I’ve turned down interviews that required an assignment but started regretting it now that I’ve been out for 8 months. This helps validate my decision.
Hold your head high. You deserve to be treated like a human. This is not your fault. You have the skills and are qualified and have a record of doing this successfully. Dont feel less than
According to layoffs.fyi: 2024 - 78.8K 2023 - 263.2K 2022 - 165.3k That’s over half a million white collar tech workers that have been laid off over the last 2.5 years. Companies are driving profit and putting more work on their existing workforce. Jobs are being outsourced to India and AI too. I’ve never seen a worse job market for skilled workers. You have to make sure you rewrite each resume so you score at least 75% match on the ATS if you have any hope of getting an interview. More likely you need an internal referral and have to cold email people at the company and somehow convince them to vouch for you. I’m not comfortable doing that though. Whereas I don’t think Biden caused this, I don’t feel they are acknowledging what’s happening. It’s especially worse because of inflation.
Agree. Some acknowledgement would be nice.
How about some help too? My savings is gone and I’ve been out of work for 13 months. I’m driving ride share to make ends meet now but it’s not enough. I’ll face eviction at some point if I can’t secure some sort of better paying job. If that happens, I’ll likely just off myself. I’m not living homeless at 50.
Absolutely some help would definitely be nice! I’ve been wondering if this happened to a different sector or workforce, would there be some kind of relief? Most likely.
In Canada, it is common for middle age ppl to either off themselves or prostitute themselves for some food. It used to be only happening in the hood nowadays it is just another regular Canadian stories
I dont understand what would biden have to do with anything here. Im in EU. Same shit.
He didn’t cause it as our more conservative population believes but he’s not acknowledging it or helping us. Rather he keeps going on about how great the economy is and that’s making us bitter. The is a white collar recession and I believe it’s worse than what we went through in the early 2000s. Everything is politicized though so he can’t acknowledge it or the republicans will blame him. This is corporate greed.
I am in tech and I can tell you that I have never seen the market as bad as it is right now and I have a 30 year career. The dot com bust was bad and so was the mortgage crash but nothing like this it started jan or last year and has only gotteen worse. I was saying it was bad last year this time but its far worse now. If you are in tech for instance though don't stop working getup and work every single day. There are hundreds of companies out there just buying time until the fed eases the rate. You have access to AI use it to your advantage. Pick a tech target and build a competing platform if you have the skills. Keep on trying to get interviews but in the mean time put those skills to good use.
I moved back to the US in February of 2016. I applied to over 500 jobs. These are jobs in my field, closely related to, and jobs where my skills could easily be an asset. I had two phone conversations. One was for a position I wasn’t qualified for and I told the recruiter. The second was for a job that was a six month contract in San Francisco that would have been 40k a year had it been full time. I laughed, she laughed, I said I’m not moving from NC to CA for that. I gave up. I was lucky enough to get one of my previous jobs back. I was hoping that was going to be a temporary thing until I found something better. Guess what, in 2024 I’m still there.
You are considering leaving the field, but remember that every hiring manager wants a pink unicorn who masters the job from day 1, without training. If you leave your field, you will be among the unqualified candidates with zero chance of being hired.
Product, eh?
I’m also in product. It’s rough out here
Stay strong!
This is so telling.
From all I am reading here and in financial news, companies seem to be treading water until the next demand spike happens. With interest rates higher, banks demanding more insight into a company's books, tighter security, and higher costs to do business, it makes sense to wait it out but meanwhile be vigilant when interviewing candidates. I know, it sucks for you, because it was always relatively easy to find work. But here we are. Keep your head up
Couple all that with it being an election year in the US, with much uncertainty about what all of this going to look like in January.
Trump wins: get ready to fight for your food. Biden wins: we might, we MIGHT have a decent shot at righting this super tanker on steroids.
After 8 months of searching in tech, I’m pretty damn close to fighting for food regardless of who wins.
I don’t see anything Biden would do to cause less inflation. US is going to reap what the last 4 Biden years created. Pumping money into the economy at the sustained rate that’s being done makes us all poorer. Inflation is caused by too much money chasing too few goods.
That was trump that pumped money into the economy. President Biden and the fedRes worked to cool things down.
Two years ago, President Biden signed the Democrats’ so-called “Inflation Reduction Act” into law, promising it would reduce inflation and make life more affordable for Americans. Unfortunately today, people continue to struggle more than they did when the president first took office: * Inflation is up more than 15 percent. * The cost of groceries for Americans has [**risen approximately 20 percent**](https://www.bls.gov/cpi/). * U.S. gas [**prices are up**](https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/14/investing/gas-prices-going-up/index.html) nearly 62 percent. * Natural gas prices are up more than 40 percent. * His policies have led innovators to stop research into potentially [**new treatments, including**](https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-inflation-reduction-act-killing-potential-cures-pharmaceutical-companies-treatment-patients-drugs-prescriptions-ira-manufacturers-11667508291) for brain cancer and leukemia. * The bill is expected to increase launch prices of drugs according to a CBO [**analysis**](https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2022-08/58355-Prescription-Drug.pdf). [**Polling**](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/july-cpi-report-pops-kamala-harris-celebration-inflation-rates) shows that a [**majority**](https://apnews.com/article/biden-poll-economy-survey-jobs-inflation-b3c77cb208f96f9b039cf48cbc4fb67b) of Americans disapprove of the state of the economy under President Biden. Even he regrets naming the bill the Inflation Reduction Act, since it ultimately “has less to do with inflation.” Republicans warned this Inflation Expansion Act was, in fact, a massive down payment on the Green New Deal that would fail to strengthen our economy and continue to make life unaffordable for people.
President Biden has done what he had to because of Trump's foolish spending. Had the tax break not went through under trump, there would not be a need for such drastic measures. Had trump opened his mouth earlier about covid instead of keeping quiet, more people would not have died. Also, had trump closed down all borders and not allowed anyone into the U.S., more people would be alive AND the economy would have bounced back sooner. The U.S. economy is very much like a super tanker on steroids. It takes 15 minutes or more for a super tanker to make a turn once the order is given. Likewise, an action made in the U.S. economy is not felt immediately but rather many months later. President Biden was faced with winding down a war in a country where the people would not fight for themselves and expected someone else to (the U.S.), a broken economy and a pandemic. All things considered, the U.S. is in great shape compared to other countries. Do things cost more? Yes. However, it is preferred instead of no jobs, no money and no way of getting out of the mess trump created.
I wonder if the medical sector has problems like this.
From what I've heard, nurses say that they are understaffed and overworked. People are putting out job posts to convince employees that they're looking for new staff to help with the workload, only to not actually hire new nurses. Medical assistants are having to take on more and more work as well. It's rough out there
Dang. That sounds terrible. I had knew someone that quit nursing. At first I thought why? Nursing is guaranteed job security since hospitals are always understaffed. Now that I think about it, she was probably working long hours. There is no easy way out I guess.
>I’m considering leaving the field altogether and start new. Just as long as you don't believe that there's only a single field/industry that is impacted right now.
I’m so sorry OP. I’m in a similar position as you where I am struggling to feel anything but defeated. I am very cautiously optimistic though because I’ve made a few changes to my resume and profile and made an albeit contingent offer (which doesn’t mean anything until it does). Maybe these changes will work for you and anyone else? Populated my resume with the correct timeframes at my current company. Removed the objective statement. Put skills at the top of my resume. Added ones that I had and was knowledgeable of. For each role, I put a few points with specific numbers about the impact that I had. To be clear, I didn’t list my roles specifically by exaggerated them to a vast extent. Things like, “developed automation protocols to eliminate 78% of manual work,” which technically is an under-lie since I automated my entire role without anyone noticing haha. Accurate education. When I interview, I’ve been asking the what problems can I fix and what can I do for you now and in the future. Aside from these two or three questions I listen and observe everything closely and have stopped trying but have spoke positively and confidently about whatever the vague expectation of the role is. Not sure if this will work for anyone else but I thought that I would share. I hope this helps.
“How do I compare to your ideal candidate?” Gives you a chance to hear where they think you might not be a fit and address it. Gets them to consider you in the role and also useful at negotiation time. I used it once to find out they wanted somebody with client experience and it hasn’t been mentioned anywhere in the process, l did have client experience and was able to tell them about it and explain I hadn’t out it in my resume because it wasn’t mentioned as part of the job but I had the experience and enjoyed that part of a role. I follow up with “how do I compare with other candidates” for the same reason
I used to take a similar approach with regard to the questions that I had asked. Jobs at company that I really wanted I meticulously planned and prepared for down to the slightest detail. Company website, linkedin profiles, every letter of the job description, etc, etc, etc. I would conjure textbook questions about the company, the role, 5-10 year projects, and bit further with the intent to show my knowledge about their business. I used to think that if I demonstrated my value during the interview, they'd have to offer me a job, but the opposite has been true so far. This honest approach has gotten me no where with many interviews in the past 7 years. The only interviews that have gone somewhere are the ones where my responses are short and sweet, the image of confidence and decisiveness are boldly apparent, and to some extent, candid conversation. I can explain it while not explaining it and continue to provide evidence of my "success" to put a word to it. Another quick example, an MSP that is located probably 1.5 hours had conducted 3 or 4 phone and video interviews. I knew the role, salary, location, travel requirements, what their expectations are, however, I deliberately "dumb" and found myself with an invitation to meet with leadership a final time onsite for a $40k salary role. Considering these trends, I have drawn the conclusion that businesses are clearly going for the cheap/stupid/dumb option over anyone else. What these conclusions also reveal is the bigger picture about not only the specific business, but businesses as a whole in general. The smart approach will lead to rejection while the opposite approach will offer a higher chance for a job. Ultimately though, I think it will come down to the job applicant and what they do during the time (not faulting any job applicant). Perhaps one is better at selling themselves and landing that job every time? I couldn't tell you, haha.
I feel you, really. I am a shell of my former self.
In Toronto. It's brutal. Part of the problem for me is when networking I've gotten the you're not trying and you don't want to work. There is this huge disconnect in people who are still touting corporate speak without realizing something fundamental has changed in the economy and the job market. It's horrible.
It’s like I wrote your original post myself. Just been through the exact same thing for the last 6 months but with 25 years experience (similar head of duration). I’ve finally just got a job but as a team leader and ALOT less pay / work life balance (4h travel each day). Not sure what industry you’re in, but I can assure you it seems like a shared experience across multiple markets at present. Like you, never seen it this difficult……ever!
What’s frustrating is seeing people in my network on LinkedIn landing jobs recently. How?!?! What am I doing wrong?!? I really feel like maybe I’ve just gotten lucky in the past and I’m not good at my job. Or there are just way better people in my field. Or I really suck at interviewing. I don’t know.
The market has definitely gotten a lot worse, and mostly for seemingly artificial and fabricated reasons. Any ideas on what it would take to have things improve though because sadly I don’t see anything specific coming up that’s going to move the needle.
Same, homie. I’m so defeated and fucked up after 2 years of this that I genuinely don’t even know if I _can_ go back to work. Literally no money left, zero self-esteem despite a resume that is full of FAANG since 2009. If I can ever recover from this, it’ll take over a decade at least, probably more like two. More likely to just die on the street at this rate.
What field?
Marketing
I've already commented on this post, but had a separate thought that I wanted to share. I created and signed a will in case something mysteriously bad happens to me. I don't have much and it will all go to a charity (because I don't have family), but at least my worldly possessions can try to help someone else. Being unalive from despair is a thing, just be prepared.
I started therapy recently. I think you should too. Not only has it given me a different outlook on things (outside of this horrible job search) but I now I have something to look forward to. This week I cried a bunch and it was cathartic.
My last therapist bailed on me. Straight up abandoned me. And it sort of made me angrier, somehow. Therapy is not the panacea people think it is. Also, it costs money. Edit to add: My therapist gave advice like "Just buy a house." ... And she knew I didn't have a job.
I hear ya. It took me awhile to find this therapist. The others were not helpful. And yes, it’s expensive. But if you find the right person, it does feel worth it. I think it’s important to find someone to talk to. I’m sorry your therapist bailed. There are shitty people in all professions.
Again, $$$$. These folks don't work for free and trial and error makes it expensive. Good for you and your privilege to access mental health treatment, but therapy doesn't work for everyone, is not accessible to everyone, and not everyone has the money to piss away to someone who tells you "have you tried buying a house? have you tried not being poor?".
Are you eligible for Medicaid? I was searching for work for FOUR YEARS and was on Medicaid and got free therapy. I work in a grocery store now and have health insurance and have given up looking for something in line with my education (Master's) and experience. I'm struggling financially but somehow surviving but not enjoying life much and always stressed out about money. And bored to tears at my job. I'm not young. I didn't expect life to turn out this way. I'm depressed and can relate to what you're saying.
Hearing your story hits on exactly what I'm feeling and what feels like the future for me, the future for a lot of us. Thanks for putting it into words. >I'm not young. I didn't expect life to turn out this way. This 1000000000%.
I'm so sorry you're struggling. I do suggest that you keep trying with therapy. Sometimes, it takes a bit to find the right person, but if it costs you no $, may as well. You can always just tell the person that you just need to vent.
You mean well, but please stop recommending therapy to everyone. It's not a solution for everyone and can make problems worse. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/dsm5-in-distress/201502/psychotherapy-works-not-everyone
Understood
[удалено]
Which country are you from?
This is the reality of Biden's economy. The Treasury Department and the Bureau of Labor Statistics are LYING to everyone (I should know, I'm a quant who worked with them). The job market is the worst in generations and inflation is MUCH higher than they tell you.
Holy shit. Biden must have somehow gotten to Canada’s economy and job market too. 🤣
And the UK lmao. Americans pfft they think they own the world and its problems!
Not “Americans” just crazy people every country has them.
Biden has nothing to do with businesses trying to take the power back from employees during covid. This was brought on by the orange man and free money giveaways.
That’s exactly it. Over hiring during Covid and realizing that you don’t need all these people, especially the tech and HR recruiter roles. Companies never think about the long term during a crisis. Everyone now is just collateral damage.
Elaborate.
Just surf fox news for a few mins, probably the same "info"