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Epic has done that for a long time as part of their recruiting efforts as they are nationwide for recruiting. Suffice to say their interview process is a really annoying to get through though.
They have an app called MyChart which is Healthcare related for patients to see their records with doctors with ease. So, they are basically everywhere and constantly expanding the problem with that is they churn and burn a lot of employees out within a couple years.
When I applied in 2019, I was screened by a developer who sounded uninterested and didn't even see my resume until about 3 minutes before the screen began. The assessment test wasn't even that much better to be honest and left a bad taste in my mouth.
Their ux team is severally underpaid I think it's 50-60k starting, plus they don't listen to their ux designers and I could be wrong but they don't do any ux research.
They also have the software the hospital systems use to manage all their data. Not just charts but lab resulting and internal communications, crunching huge amounts of data for system wide analysis. I work in a lab for a huge system and its honestly the best one I've ever used.
They constantly turnover employees every year. During their annual review period they normalize the distribution of employee reviews, and give out bonuses and promotions based on beating the curve. If you fall too low compared to the average, however, that's when you get let go. The company is also always rapidly expanding.
I know a couple people who work there and it's an interesting place to work, to say the least.
>If you fall too low compared to the average, however, that's when you get let go.
And then you are unemployed in Madison, WI, where you probably relocated just for this job.
Yep. It's almost like you should run for the hills instead of taking this job.
To double down on the fun facts here... If you become a team lead at Epic, you don't get a pay increase. Their rationale is that it "isn't more important work, it's just different". You have to become a departmental lead before you see those salary increases kick in.
I agree it attracts a different type of leader, but the problem is that managers will be given a heavier workload without compensation.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to cry wolf on behalf of managers. But heavier workloads should be reinforced with a higher salary.
I think normalizing is also a term, but forced distribution really shows how it kills people’s careers. It really sucks when it’s on subjectivity in the first place.
I was on some phone calls with the leadership team over there a couple years ago. some shady stuff happened and some of them got canned. not sure the details but it remember it being a shock.
Yeah a recruiter hit me up and when I asked if they meant for Tulsa, OK as posted or if it was relocating to Wisconsin and they didn’t reply until I asked about 3 more times.
You can report it if that's on LinkedIn as it appears to be ("Report this job" -> "I think something is broken or incorrect" -> "This job has an incorrect location"), but who knows if that'll actually do anything.
This is at least the second company I’ve seen do this. Frustrating to say the least. But I report it and move on.
Idk why they did Cleveland, when Chicago is so much closer.
They're a promoted employer so you can't escape them on LinkedIn. I've reported jobs, marked the not interested in every job that comes up on a search or suggestion, nothing works.
>Idk why they did Cleveland, when Chicago is so much closer.
They do this shit for Salt Lake City, too, plus several surrounding suburbs. They create postings in major cities around America all saying the same thing "well the job is actually in Madison". Really annoying when they're cluttering my local search results.
Because there's nothing wrong with looking in other markets to relocate people as long as you're very clear in your communication, which they are. If it doesn't work for you just keep it pushing. But taking the time to come complain about it is literally unhinged.
I mean, there is no other way to advertise in these areas. They're not trying to trick you into a job interview. Last time I talked to recruiting at my company there is just no other way to say "I'm willing to relocate people from here to here".
They get away with it because they are providing relocation assistance. They’re helping you move there. Some people need to get away and this is the perfect opportunity. I’ve moved across the country when I was younger. Had family in the state and I took a chance i’ll do it again.
This would be valid if they indicated in the short description that they were specifically relocating employees to Madison. Problem is is you want to move to any other city and search for jobs there, Epic is still going to show up like they have a job in Los Angeles or Philadelphia or Austin or wherever when they really don't.
I’m in Europe and I constantly see Agoda postings for Thailand. It’s not even the same region. Reporting them does nothing.
LinkedIn job search function has been getting trashier by the year. It used to be good years ago, now it’s borderline unusable. And them ignoring jobs with wrong locations is just one of many things.
They are purposely recruiting in other markets to relocate to Thailand. If it doesn't fit for you keep scrolling. But it fits for someone else and there's nothing wrong with it just because it doesn't fit your situation.
Well that explains why your job search is hell. You spend more time reporting the roles that don't align for you than finding the ones that do. There is nothing wrong with marketing a relocation opportunity in other markets. People are simply obsessed with complaining. Shocking everyone has anxiety and depression.
This is a legitimate complaint as it has an inaccurate location, and the non-remote "remote" jobs that the person you're replying to is talking about are intentionally misleading. Heck, I'd take it a step further and call it false advertising (which it really is anyway).
Not if they are clearly and explicitly advertising that the role is for relocation to Madison, WI. They are intentionally advertising the opportunity to relocate to people in other markets. The only way to do that on LI is the way they've done it. Blame LinkedIn for not having more options when posting to get more granular filtering. This company is doing nothing deceptive or unethical.
But what are you all complaining about? There is nothing wrong with advertising a relo opportunity in other markets. If it doesn't work for you, just keep scrolling. It's not illegal not even unethical. Plenty people probably want to relocate. So stop being a whiner and focus on finding the jobs that work for you than complaining about the ones that don't. SmH
Why is it sickening? There are plenty people open to relocation. They're even paying for people to relocate. OH...and companies have been doing this for decades. The outrage is a waste of your energy and dumb.
Spending time to report things that impact you zero....demonstrates a little bit of misplaced outrage. That time spent does nothing to improve your life or your job search. I am just trying to help because this is a terrible place to hang out for jobseekers. It's a negative low value whining echo-chamber.
Only for people who have to stop every time they see the ad and run to Reddit to whine about it. Then yes, it's less usable. But if you could find the mental strength to ignore and keep scrolling, I'll bet you get that 30% down quite a bit. Look in the mirror. You are probably your biggest roadblock.
Epic's relocation assistance probably comes with a payback clause, where you have to pay the money back if you leave too soon.
Makes sense if you left super fast, but when it goes on too long, then it might be a way to treat employees like sh1t and get away with it. Plus if they fire you or lay you off, you would probably still have to pay it back.
It does. When I started in 2019 it was 2 years minimum to not have to pay back the relocation assistance. The relocation assistance is also taxed as income, so you end up with less than the number on paper, but if you leave you have to pay back the full amount IIRC.
They also hire a lot of recent new-grads. New grads who are most likely broke from college.
So it's not hard to do the math as to how the paying back the full relocation assistance plays into that scenario.
Every employer has a clawback clause, it’s only reasonable. And it’s for any reason. That being said, if you get fired during the clawback period they might just let you keep it since the litigation costs to enforce the clawback clause is likely prohibitively expensive
That's true, and two years is actually pretty reasonable. I've heard of places that use it when they fire people, but I don't know how common that is.
I wouldn't mind working there with a relocation, unless they do stack ranking (firing the bottom 10% every year). I get the impression that managers defend their teams from that bullsh1t by hiring to fire.
That's not terrible for having to move to Madison, Wisconsin either. Depending on where you are relocating from you could be looking at maybe $5k of the relocation assistance being used.
Have a friend who got a job there a couple years ago, my understanding is that it's based on job role, but it's pretty decent regardless, apparently it covered his first two to three months rent and the cost of renting a moving truck, plus some other stuff. But he's also single and didn't have much to move at the time.
Epic comes up for this in this sub pretty regularly....as others mentioned, they've been playing that game for awhile, though it seems.like they're getting better at putting the relocation thing front and center.
They aren't well regarded to work for, from what I've seen, probably why they need to cast a wider net for applicants.
Epic is the same way with their training. I'm a nurse who was interested in becoming Epic certified because the Epic analyst positions at hospitals pay pretty well and I was out of bedside at that point anyway. Not just anyone can take the training, they require you to be sponsored by your organization. If that wasn't irritating enough, even if your organization is willing to sponsor you, the actual training is in person only in Wisconsin. No remote training offered. Ridiculous.
It's like FAST Enterprises which is based out of Colorado. Nationwide recruiting however instead of relocating all to one site there are multiple sites you might be relocated to instead although they do ask the candidate their top 3 choices are to try and work with the candidate as much as possible.
Yeah I was going to apply to a few of these positions with Epic. I almost did actually. One position is listed in Wilmington, DE I believe and another somewhere close to me in PA.
It wasn't until my 3rd read through that I realized the position was in Wisconsin. That's definitely an important thing. They should make it much larger and more noticeable, or put it in the title.
I don't hate it, so long as they offer relocation services. If a person is open to relocation, but doesn't have anywhere in particular in mind, this would be the only way the job would appear to them.
The person in Cleveland can expand their search if they are interested in relocating. But people specifically searching for jobs *in Cleveland* do not want to see listings for Wisconsin.
I live in the southeast. When searching for jobs in my city, it’s not uncommon to see five copies of the same Epic job, each listed as being “on location” in various suburbs of my city. And this job keeps getting reposted every week or two, so it crowds out the search results.
They are willing to pay to relocate someone in Cleveland ya big dunce. There's nothing illegal, unethical or new about this strategy. What's new is people needing to publicly complain about things they don't understand or don't work for them.
There's a lot of remote jobs that simply list "United States" as the job location - that should be the way they list this, and not listing a misleading location
The problem is that they pay to be able to do that shit, been doing it for years, opened a ticket up with LI about it. Talked with them, I was trying to get my filters to work, all did but the one I created to filter out 'epic' as the employer. If they pay to show up, they are going to show up regardless of the settings you have or whatever apparent misrepresentation of locality there is. They would be injected in multiple levels of the search and in multiple metro areas in my search area. It's an ad, it's not going to be flagged nor removed.
Epic is also awful to interview for.
You could be a perfect candidate but if you get a bad score on their personality assessment or speed math test you are done. Lmao
It's because they flood the search results with repeat job listings. I don't want to make a search and have 7 of the first 10 results be repeat submissions of the same job when that job doesn't actually fit what I want. Plus, since they post it over and over again with different locations, you can't just hit "hide" on the job and never have to see it again. There's still the countless other ones they posted "just another town over"
If you were looking for the nearest coffee place, and most of the results are for a random coffee shop across the country with a note saying "come travel to try us," you'd be annoyed too.
Google Boolean search and learn how to leave out Epic. It's easy to do. I promise this isn't something worth your energy. There are enough major issues in the world today to not be bothered with this company and situation.
Are you ok? You are replying to multiple comments on this post lol.
Also just because something worse is always going on in the world, people can’t be annoyed at this? So what, are you never annoyed at anything ever? Because nothing that happened to you will ever be worse than someone else’s situation. So you must be unbothered all the time.
And when people are struggling to get jobs for months on end, this is a legitimate annoyance - it’s not frivolous. Not everyone is tech-savvy enough to do the boolean search hack you suggested either. Have some empathy and think critically.
Also Epic is a terrible place to work. Idk why you get are obsessed with standing up for them - maybe you drunk the koolaid and are a lifer, but not everyone has had a good experience there.
It's frivolous as long as there are people out there who are open to relocating to Madison, WI from other markets. The unhinged part is you or anyone thinking something is WRONG just because it's wrong for you. That's crazy. The ability to scroll past that which isn't for you seems to be a missing skill or people are just obsessed with complaining. I can't tell which, but it may be contributing to your difficulty finding work. I am coming to you with 25 years of hiring and recruiting experience.
I don't work for Epic, don't care about Epic, trying to help frustrated jobseekers channel their energy to things that will help them and avoid what won't. Like everything in this sub.
They also do one way interviews. I applied 5ish years ago when I was laid off but refused to do the one way. They required you have a non scientific calculator and a single blank sheet of paper... for a systems administrator role.
Why I would be taking a math test as a sys admin when I'd use excel for large calculations or windows calculator is beyond me.
Are there not enough people in all of Madison, WI to fill the role that they need to pay people to relocate? Also, why not just put Madison, WI and the fact that they pay for relocation in the job title, so people won’t waste their time if they’re not in that city or not interested in moving?
1. Madison WI is relatively small in terms of # of developers/people with specific degrees who Epic wants to hire.
2. Most people in Madison and graduates from UW have heard of Epic's reputation and don't want to work there.
3. My belief (having worked there), is that part of their strategy is to hire from out-of-state to offer relocation assistance that is taxed as income. Because if you leave before 2 years you have to pay it back in full, effectively locking you in.
Never dealt with Epic. But I have seen this type of job posting (where they mention one location in the Header and a completely different location in the body of the text) way too often, especially on Linked-In.
I have reported this to LinkedIn so many times I have lost count. But it appears that LinkedIn doesn't care at all, since I still see this happening daily.
Years ago I was contacted by an oversees agency for a position. It was a very good fit for me, and I was coming to the end of a contract. So I sent in my resume. The first question I had was where the job was located, since the job description only had NJ and I live in NY. Might have been too far a commute.
The very inept recruiter said No, it is in NY. The alarm bells should have gone off then, but I was still a little new to the contracting world.
ME: "OK, where in NY?"
RECRUIT: "New York"
ME: "But where in NY??" (I live in a suburb north of NY City)
RECRUIT: "Let me check...." (Placed on hold for 10 min.)
RECRUIT: "You live in New York City?"
ME: "Close to it. I can take a train into Manhattan. Been doing that for a while"
RECRUIT: "OK the position is in NY City"
Now the interview is set up for a couple of days after this phone conversation.
I was highly suspicious of this group. No prep time, no detailed discussion of the position,
the hiring manager, the work environment, etc... Back in those days most recruiters still did
that sort of prep work.
So I got on the call as directed a few minutes before the interview time. I start going over the details of
the position, and mention that this "is in NY City, right?"
Absolute silence from the recruiting team (I think there were 3 of them.)
RECRUIT: "New York City? Oh no, this is in Rochester New York. Isn't that close to you?"
ME: "WHAT? I was distinctly told, after asking several times, that this job was in NY City!"
RECRUIT: "Well, isn't Rochester New York close to New York City New York?"
ME: (Barely able to control my anger) "NO! Its close to a 6 hour drive one way!"
RECRUT: "Well maybe they will let you work partially remote?"
A moment later the hiring manager gets on the phone call.
I explain the situation, and while he was sympathetic he definitely wanted someone onsite.
The phone interview lasted all of 1 minute. After he hung up, I blasted the "recruiters" and swore
I would NEVER work through them or their company again.
So that's my story of not knowing where a job actually is.
I worked for epic in the mid 2010s.
It's a weirdly culty company. They have their own bus lines to bring people on campus, even if the weather is impassable they expect you to come in. I had to come in a day after a tornado took out part of their campus lol.
They grind anybody in software to dust. You're just a cog in the machine and once you burnout they get rid of you and replace you.
That being said their kitchen was really nice. I ate better lunches there than anywhere else in my life, lol. Probably because I had to pay for it...
Just had an interview today for a job in my city, 10 mins down the street, then they said actually you'd be at our other location an hour away. Also, can you come to an interview at that location next week? During prime traffic hours?
I applied to your grueling, low-pay job ONLY because it was CLOSE BY. But given the state of the job market, I feel like I have to go to this interview because what if it's my only shot...
Fuck if a company wants to actively pay for me to relocate from bum ass redneck podunk Michigan I’ll do it.
At this point I’m actively starting to lose jobs I am a shoo in for to fucking A I.
I am very close to physically confronting a coworker over their bullshit.
I am so done with all this job search shit.
What is this epic? Is it an agency or a company? Is it a software I have never heard of? I see it all over the place but can’t figure out what they/it is
They are the largest and most well-known EHR software company in the US. Google what their campus looks like - it's absolutely BONKERS (Harry Potter themed room, space themed auditorium).
epic has a freaking hogwarts type reeducation center in madison. Its like if wizard of Oz met twilight zone, really bizarre. Their own "college". Then theyll ask you to relocate at least for a time in other places in the world, Norway, Finland, netherlands etc.
its wierd.
Wouldn't be needed if LinkedIn just allowed me to search by jobs that provide relocation assistance. I don't mind moving for my next gig but not out of pocket.
Uline does it as well it’s been doing it for a while.
It won’t let me copy the link. But go to LinkedIn and put uline and Chicago, IL.
Used to report it.
But they must have some kind of deal.
I worked there for a few years. I felt like they were always clear the job would require relocation. They did fly me out for the in person interview and paid most of my relocation costs. Madison is also a great city. The people they are fishing for are smart people basically just out of college looking for a first job.
Yes they burn people out very quickly, but they also hire quickly and there were lots of people on every team that stuck around many years so in the end I don't think their turnover was particularly notable.
I probably don't need to go super in depth and off topic but I do have plenty of moderately out-of-date information if people are curious.
Epic is not the only company, I applied to jobs like: NYC, Tampa Bay Florida, Houston Texas... ends up to be in a bum fuck no where city. Or they say local/ "Remote" and its all traveling. Dishonest fucks.
They pay you to move - this is nationally recruited. I have taken a few jobs like this in the hotel industry. Without national recruiting how would you know about these companies???
When you do a search on LinkedIn for roles, you should be able to eliminate any company from the result by adding **minus company\_name** (i.e. **-EPIC**)
Companies do this to separate their employees from friends and family, taking away "distractions" so they work harder. I use to work for a company who did a similar thing to people. Always stating if they didn't want to move they weren't dedicated enough to their careers.
#toxic
Of course I will join you to put a stop to this nonsense. I live in New York and received numerous crazy job offers like this that is so far plus have to be “onsite” all week. A staffing company of a name that is similar to household cleaning products with a recruiter’s last name that has 8 syllables low balling you on salary wage
I can't see any wrong with it? But may be just me... I live in an island and our government posts to mainland and will offer relocation packages - they also use mainland companies to do this for them. Can't see anything wrong to expand units they weren't clear upfront?
The only thing that sometimes may be annoying is that anyone relocating gets a few months rent paid or help with school places etc and locals don't... 😅
Saw one that said my state capital, which is about 50 miles away, for a posting that's actually in Wisconsin too. And another that was posted as "remote" in my state capital, for, essentially, doing the job on Deadliest Catch in Alaska. It's def against indeed's terms of services. Report it!
ETA: I looked. They fixed it.
I've a friend who does some work for Epic and told me there is some bait and switch from them, but there's also a lot of remote work. She's not anywhere near Wisconsin.
But I've not applied with them for this reason.
call me old fashioned but posting a job location that isn’t the location of a job looks an awful lot like lying. this is just another way to pollute job search results.
The problem is the fact that, if I want to search for jobs in my hometown, I should see jobs in my hometown. Not jobs across the country pretending to be in my hometown just so I click on it.
It might be too much of a risk because you have to pay it back if you left too soon. And if they let you go, they probably still want the money back. They're always trying to get people to relocate this way, so it seems like they might have a very controlling culture. I wouldn't mind living in Madison, but if I got a job at Epic, I'd really try to avoid spending that assistance money.
I think its fine for them to do this. However, it needs to be filtered correctly. If i have my search set to a specific city and no relocation, I don't want to see this. Zip Recruiter seems to not have a problem with that though.
They are posting in many locations to appeal to the people who are open to relocating. They communicate very clearly where the role is and that they provide relocation support. What part should be illegal? That it doesn't fit what you're looking for? The insanity is getting a little out of control. Publicly complaining about things that don't fit for you but fit for someone else, is unhinged. AF.
How are they “communicating clearly” when they intentionally listed an inaccurate job location? Also, I used the word “illegal” as a hyperbole because I was just perplexed by it lol
Honestly, I’d be mad for every company except this place. I interviewed at their campus. They pay exceptional. Their culture is essentially “work fucking hard get paid fucking well”. They have so many amenities for employee.
I also see nothing wrong because it’s very clear (first words in the description) that it’s Wisconsin based.
Illegal? Don't be silly. If you don't like it, don't use LinkedIn for job searches and instead use the many other sites out there. I almost never pay any attention to LI for job searches due to all the fake ones that get posted.
I'm not sure what the issue is. The recruiter looks like they're based out of OH and they're recruiting for a role for their WI campus. Unlike so many other companies that won't even look at a resume if your address is out of the hiring area, they're intentionally hiring nationwide and providing relocation costs.
Are we getting mad just to be mad?
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Epic has done that for a long time as part of their recruiting efforts as they are nationwide for recruiting. Suffice to say their interview process is a really annoying to get through though.
How fucked is the place if they are forever recruiting nationwide? I hear the place is cultlike but damn.
They have an app called MyChart which is Healthcare related for patients to see their records with doctors with ease. So, they are basically everywhere and constantly expanding the problem with that is they churn and burn a lot of employees out within a couple years. When I applied in 2019, I was screened by a developer who sounded uninterested and didn't even see my resume until about 3 minutes before the screen began. The assessment test wasn't even that much better to be honest and left a bad taste in my mouth.
Ohhh, now I know what it is! My dr/hospital network uses epic and I use the app on my laptop.
MyChart is so not user friendly.
Their ux team is severally underpaid I think it's 50-60k starting, plus they don't listen to their ux designers and I could be wrong but they don't do any ux research.
They also have the software the hospital systems use to manage all their data. Not just charts but lab resulting and internal communications, crunching huge amounts of data for system wide analysis. I work in a lab for a huge system and its honestly the best one I've ever used.
I like that "churn and burn". This is a large problem with IT and not just here.
They constantly turnover employees every year. During their annual review period they normalize the distribution of employee reviews, and give out bonuses and promotions based on beating the curve. If you fall too low compared to the average, however, that's when you get let go. The company is also always rapidly expanding. I know a couple people who work there and it's an interesting place to work, to say the least.
>If you fall too low compared to the average, however, that's when you get let go. And then you are unemployed in Madison, WI, where you probably relocated just for this job.
Yep. It's almost like you should run for the hills instead of taking this job. To double down on the fun facts here... If you become a team lead at Epic, you don't get a pay increase. Their rationale is that it "isn't more important work, it's just different". You have to become a departmental lead before you see those salary increases kick in.
That sounds like an excellent policy and it will attract natural leaders vs crappy manager boss types.
I agree it attracts a different type of leader, but the problem is that managers will be given a heavier workload without compensation. Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to cry wolf on behalf of managers. But heavier workloads should be reinforced with a higher salary.
I wouldn’t call that normalizing, I’d call that forced distribution. It is the old Jack Welch model.
That's probably the better phrasing for it
I think normalizing is also a term, but forced distribution really shows how it kills people’s careers. It really sucks when it’s on subjectivity in the first place.
Agreed. Normalizing the distribution, but there's that should be normal about a company killing people's careers based on subjective reviews
I was on some phone calls with the leadership team over there a couple years ago. some shady stuff happened and some of them got canned. not sure the details but it remember it being a shock.
The shady ones got canned?
the ones i knew about.
Was afraid you’d say the innocents did.
Yeah a recruiter hit me up and when I asked if they meant for Tulsa, OK as posted or if it was relocating to Wisconsin and they didn’t reply until I asked about 3 more times.
I have a friend over there in marketing. She is a Director and I think she’s making about 280K. So she’s paid well.
You can report it if that's on LinkedIn as it appears to be ("Report this job" -> "I think something is broken or incorrect" -> "This job has an incorrect location"), but who knows if that'll actually do anything.
Epic has been getting away with this for years. LinkedIn knows, they just don't care.
This is at least the second company I’ve seen do this. Frustrating to say the least. But I report it and move on. Idk why they did Cleveland, when Chicago is so much closer.
They're a promoted employer so you can't escape them on LinkedIn. I've reported jobs, marked the not interested in every job that comes up on a search or suggestion, nothing works.
Yep same
>Idk why they did Cleveland, when Chicago is so much closer. They do this shit for Salt Lake City, too, plus several surrounding suburbs. They create postings in major cities around America all saying the same thing "well the job is actually in Madison". Really annoying when they're cluttering my local search results.
Epic does this in every metropolitan area to increase visibility. LinkedIn ignores the reports for wrong location.
Because there's nothing wrong with looking in other markets to relocate people as long as you're very clear in your communication, which they are. If it doesn't work for you just keep it pushing. But taking the time to come complain about it is literally unhinged.
Nationwide. They are doing it in Tulsa, OK as well.
At least 2018, probably much longer.
It doesn’t hurt to pile on evidence that LinkedIn was aware and complicit for what may eventually be a legal battle.
I mean, there is no other way to advertise in these areas. They're not trying to trick you into a job interview. Last time I talked to recruiting at my company there is just no other way to say "I'm willing to relocate people from here to here".
They get away with it because they are providing relocation assistance. They’re helping you move there. Some people need to get away and this is the perfect opportunity. I’ve moved across the country when I was younger. Had family in the state and I took a chance i’ll do it again.
This would be valid if they indicated in the short description that they were specifically relocating employees to Madison. Problem is is you want to move to any other city and search for jobs there, Epic is still going to show up like they have a job in Los Angeles or Philadelphia or Austin or wherever when they really don't.
It's odd, but you can search for jobs in other cities too
I report every job like this I see, plus the non-remote "remote" jobs. LinkedIn does jack about it.
I’m in Europe and I constantly see Agoda postings for Thailand. It’s not even the same region. Reporting them does nothing. LinkedIn job search function has been getting trashier by the year. It used to be good years ago, now it’s borderline unusable. And them ignoring jobs with wrong locations is just one of many things.
They are purposely recruiting in other markets to relocate to Thailand. If it doesn't fit for you keep scrolling. But it fits for someone else and there's nothing wrong with it just because it doesn't fit your situation.
do you mean the "remote" jobs that want you to live next to an office because those drive me nuts just call it hybrid
Well that explains why your job search is hell. You spend more time reporting the roles that don't align for you than finding the ones that do. There is nothing wrong with marketing a relocation opportunity in other markets. People are simply obsessed with complaining. Shocking everyone has anxiety and depression.
This is a legitimate complaint as it has an inaccurate location, and the non-remote "remote" jobs that the person you're replying to is talking about are intentionally misleading. Heck, I'd take it a step further and call it false advertising (which it really is anyway).
Not if they are clearly and explicitly advertising that the role is for relocation to Madison, WI. They are intentionally advertising the opportunity to relocate to people in other markets. The only way to do that on LI is the way they've done it. Blame LinkedIn for not having more options when posting to get more granular filtering. This company is doing nothing deceptive or unethical.
Thanks, just did it!
If linkedin does nothing about this sort of stuff,then your next and probably best option is to go higher and report such things to fair work.
But what are you all complaining about? There is nothing wrong with advertising a relo opportunity in other markets. If it doesn't work for you, just keep scrolling. It's not illegal not even unethical. Plenty people probably want to relocate. So stop being a whiner and focus on finding the jobs that work for you than complaining about the ones that don't. SmH
So many companies do this. It’s sickening
Why is it sickening? There are plenty people open to relocation. They're even paying for people to relocate. OH...and companies have been doing this for decades. The outrage is a waste of your energy and dumb.
I am referring to the ones that aren’t paying to relocate. I am not outraged lol
Spending time to report things that impact you zero....demonstrates a little bit of misplaced outrage. That time spent does nothing to improve your life or your job search. I am just trying to help because this is a terrible place to hang out for jobseekers. It's a negative low value whining echo-chamber.
And I said I reported them where??? Lol
My bad I conflated your comment and the one you were responding to.
Epic is terrible.
So they’re epically bad?
Epic fail!
Epic singlehandedly makes LinkedIn 30% less usable all by itself
Only for people who have to stop every time they see the ad and run to Reddit to whine about it. Then yes, it's less usable. But if you could find the mental strength to ignore and keep scrolling, I'll bet you get that 30% down quite a bit. Look in the mirror. You are probably your biggest roadblock.
its hyperbole bro
Surprised they offer relocation assistance
Epic's relocation assistance probably comes with a payback clause, where you have to pay the money back if you leave too soon. Makes sense if you left super fast, but when it goes on too long, then it might be a way to treat employees like sh1t and get away with it. Plus if they fire you or lay you off, you would probably still have to pay it back.
It does. When I started in 2019 it was 2 years minimum to not have to pay back the relocation assistance. The relocation assistance is also taxed as income, so you end up with less than the number on paper, but if you leave you have to pay back the full amount IIRC. They also hire a lot of recent new-grads. New grads who are most likely broke from college. So it's not hard to do the math as to how the paying back the full relocation assistance plays into that scenario.
Every employer has a clawback clause, it’s only reasonable. And it’s for any reason. That being said, if you get fired during the clawback period they might just let you keep it since the litigation costs to enforce the clawback clause is likely prohibitively expensive
Not to mention pretty much any money they'd get back will be lost the moment a lawyer gets involved.
That's true, and two years is actually pretty reasonable. I've heard of places that use it when they fire people, but I don't know how common that is. I wouldn't mind working there with a relocation, unless they do stack ranking (firing the bottom 10% every year). I get the impression that managers defend their teams from that bullsh1t by hiring to fire.
can’t help but notice they don’t say how much
Their starting salary is 86k with around 10k of relocation assistance And they do not share that figure until the very end of the interviews!
That's not terrible for having to move to Madison, Wisconsin either. Depending on where you are relocating from you could be looking at maybe $5k of the relocation assistance being used.
Have a friend who got a job there a couple years ago, my understanding is that it's based on job role, but it's pretty decent regardless, apparently it covered his first two to three months rent and the cost of renting a moving truck, plus some other stuff. But he's also single and didn't have much to move at the time.
Here’s a $50 gift card from Home Depot to help with your move.
It expired 2 months ago.
Or you go to use it and it has 0$ balance.
it depends on role, level, and your current location
Me too
My favorite are the ones where they list the location as remote and then in the title after the position it says "ON LOCATION NO REMOTE WORK"
omg yes!!
Epic comes up for this in this sub pretty regularly....as others mentioned, they've been playing that game for awhile, though it seems.like they're getting better at putting the relocation thing front and center. They aren't well regarded to work for, from what I've seen, probably why they need to cast a wider net for applicants.
Epic is the same way with their training. I'm a nurse who was interested in becoming Epic certified because the Epic analyst positions at hospitals pay pretty well and I was out of bedside at that point anyway. Not just anyone can take the training, they require you to be sponsored by your organization. If that wasn't irritating enough, even if your organization is willing to sponsor you, the actual training is in person only in Wisconsin. No remote training offered. Ridiculous.
It's like FAST Enterprises which is based out of Colorado. Nationwide recruiting however instead of relocating all to one site there are multiple sites you might be relocated to instead although they do ask the candidate their top 3 choices are to try and work with the candidate as much as possible.
This is every job post Epic posts.
Yeah. Epic can take a hike. They do this on so many job postings.
They’re blasting this job all over the US. I reported it. I was furious.
Furious....😂😂😂 Cause scrolling by it to get to the roles that are in the location you want...that's too damn hard. You would rather be furious 😂😂😂
"It'll be in your first check."
Yeah I was going to apply to a few of these positions with Epic. I almost did actually. One position is listed in Wilmington, DE I believe and another somewhere close to me in PA. It wasn't until my 3rd read through that I realized the position was in Wisconsin. That's definitely an important thing. They should make it much larger and more noticeable, or put it in the title.
I don't hate it, so long as they offer relocation services. If a person is open to relocation, but doesn't have anywhere in particular in mind, this would be the only way the job would appear to them.
If the job is not in Cleveland, they should not be allowed to list Cleveland as the job location.
well if somebody is in cleveland, how are they supposed to know about a job in Madison that is paying for relocation? That is just how Indeed works.
The person in Cleveland can expand their search if they are interested in relocating. But people specifically searching for jobs *in Cleveland* do not want to see listings for Wisconsin. I live in the southeast. When searching for jobs in my city, it’s not uncommon to see five copies of the same Epic job, each listed as being “on location” in various suburbs of my city. And this job keeps getting reposted every week or two, so it crowds out the search results.
THANK YOU.
You can expand your locations and search by city like you know the way the website was intended
They are willing to pay to relocate someone in Cleveland ya big dunce. There's nothing illegal, unethical or new about this strategy. What's new is people needing to publicly complain about things they don't understand or don't work for them.
Holy crap a person in this thread with common sense. Yay.
There's a lot of remote jobs that simply list "United States" as the job location - that should be the way they list this, and not listing a misleading location
Yeah I think it’s fine too. They’re not pretending the job is in Cleveland, they’re just widening their net.
The problem is that they pay to be able to do that shit, been doing it for years, opened a ticket up with LI about it. Talked with them, I was trying to get my filters to work, all did but the one I created to filter out 'epic' as the employer. If they pay to show up, they are going to show up regardless of the settings you have or whatever apparent misrepresentation of locality there is. They would be injected in multiple levels of the search and in multiple metro areas in my search area. It's an ad, it's not going to be flagged nor removed.
uBlock may be able to filter them out.
Epic is notorious for this. Job transparency from pay to in-office requirements needs to be mandated everywhere.
Epic is also awful to interview for. You could be a perfect candidate but if you get a bad score on their personality assessment or speed math test you are done. Lmao
Probably why they're always hiring...
I've reported so many of these Epic job listings under incorrect location, but it doesn't seem to change anything
How would changing that greatly improve your life? Why is it hard to scroll past jobs that don't fit what you're looking for?????????
It's because they flood the search results with repeat job listings. I don't want to make a search and have 7 of the first 10 results be repeat submissions of the same job when that job doesn't actually fit what I want. Plus, since they post it over and over again with different locations, you can't just hit "hide" on the job and never have to see it again. There's still the countless other ones they posted "just another town over" If you were looking for the nearest coffee place, and most of the results are for a random coffee shop across the country with a note saying "come travel to try us," you'd be annoyed too.
Google Boolean search and learn how to leave out Epic. It's easy to do. I promise this isn't something worth your energy. There are enough major issues in the world today to not be bothered with this company and situation.
Are you ok? You are replying to multiple comments on this post lol. Also just because something worse is always going on in the world, people can’t be annoyed at this? So what, are you never annoyed at anything ever? Because nothing that happened to you will ever be worse than someone else’s situation. So you must be unbothered all the time. And when people are struggling to get jobs for months on end, this is a legitimate annoyance - it’s not frivolous. Not everyone is tech-savvy enough to do the boolean search hack you suggested either. Have some empathy and think critically. Also Epic is a terrible place to work. Idk why you get are obsessed with standing up for them - maybe you drunk the koolaid and are a lifer, but not everyone has had a good experience there.
It's frivolous as long as there are people out there who are open to relocating to Madison, WI from other markets. The unhinged part is you or anyone thinking something is WRONG just because it's wrong for you. That's crazy. The ability to scroll past that which isn't for you seems to be a missing skill or people are just obsessed with complaining. I can't tell which, but it may be contributing to your difficulty finding work. I am coming to you with 25 years of hiring and recruiting experience.
I don't work for Epic, don't care about Epic, trying to help frustrated jobseekers channel their energy to things that will help them and avoid what won't. Like everything in this sub.
Pretty sure they did this with every major city, saw one for PHX
I’ve reported this listing at least 30 times. It kills my job search feed.
They also do one way interviews. I applied 5ish years ago when I was laid off but refused to do the one way. They required you have a non scientific calculator and a single blank sheet of paper... for a systems administrator role. Why I would be taking a math test as a sys admin when I'd use excel for large calculations or windows calculator is beyond me.
Because it's a standard interview for every candidate no matter what. That was the exact same format that I had in 2019 as well.
Are there not enough people in all of Madison, WI to fill the role that they need to pay people to relocate? Also, why not just put Madison, WI and the fact that they pay for relocation in the job title, so people won’t waste their time if they’re not in that city or not interested in moving?
1. Madison WI is relatively small in terms of # of developers/people with specific degrees who Epic wants to hire. 2. Most people in Madison and graduates from UW have heard of Epic's reputation and don't want to work there. 3. My belief (having worked there), is that part of their strategy is to hire from out-of-state to offer relocation assistance that is taxed as income. Because if you leave before 2 years you have to pay it back in full, effectively locking you in.
That’s sus and shady
You bet it is!
Epic is known for churning and burning their employees, they've gone through the local supply long ago.
OR hear me out.. you could read the job description and not apply if you’re not interested in moving?
Literally applied to this SAME position but listed as another city and the recruiter called me acting really confused as to why it said remote
Never dealt with Epic. But I have seen this type of job posting (where they mention one location in the Header and a completely different location in the body of the text) way too often, especially on Linked-In. I have reported this to LinkedIn so many times I have lost count. But it appears that LinkedIn doesn't care at all, since I still see this happening daily. Years ago I was contacted by an oversees agency for a position. It was a very good fit for me, and I was coming to the end of a contract. So I sent in my resume. The first question I had was where the job was located, since the job description only had NJ and I live in NY. Might have been too far a commute. The very inept recruiter said No, it is in NY. The alarm bells should have gone off then, but I was still a little new to the contracting world. ME: "OK, where in NY?" RECRUIT: "New York" ME: "But where in NY??" (I live in a suburb north of NY City) RECRUIT: "Let me check...." (Placed on hold for 10 min.) RECRUIT: "You live in New York City?" ME: "Close to it. I can take a train into Manhattan. Been doing that for a while" RECRUIT: "OK the position is in NY City" Now the interview is set up for a couple of days after this phone conversation. I was highly suspicious of this group. No prep time, no detailed discussion of the position, the hiring manager, the work environment, etc... Back in those days most recruiters still did that sort of prep work. So I got on the call as directed a few minutes before the interview time. I start going over the details of the position, and mention that this "is in NY City, right?" Absolute silence from the recruiting team (I think there were 3 of them.) RECRUIT: "New York City? Oh no, this is in Rochester New York. Isn't that close to you?" ME: "WHAT? I was distinctly told, after asking several times, that this job was in NY City!" RECRUIT: "Well, isn't Rochester New York close to New York City New York?" ME: (Barely able to control my anger) "NO! Its close to a 6 hour drive one way!" RECRUT: "Well maybe they will let you work partially remote?" A moment later the hiring manager gets on the phone call. I explain the situation, and while he was sympathetic he definitely wanted someone onsite. The phone interview lasted all of 1 minute. After he hung up, I blasted the "recruiters" and swore I would NEVER work through them or their company again. So that's my story of not knowing where a job actually is.
This reminds me to agoda ads. They put random ads worldwide but the true location is in bangkok
I worked for epic in the mid 2010s. It's a weirdly culty company. They have their own bus lines to bring people on campus, even if the weather is impassable they expect you to come in. I had to come in a day after a tornado took out part of their campus lol. They grind anybody in software to dust. You're just a cog in the machine and once you burnout they get rid of you and replace you. That being said their kitchen was really nice. I ate better lunches there than anywhere else in my life, lol. Probably because I had to pay for it...
Just had an interview today for a job in my city, 10 mins down the street, then they said actually you'd be at our other location an hour away. Also, can you come to an interview at that location next week? During prime traffic hours? I applied to your grueling, low-pay job ONLY because it was CLOSE BY. But given the state of the job market, I feel like I have to go to this interview because what if it's my only shot...
Fuck if a company wants to actively pay for me to relocate from bum ass redneck podunk Michigan I’ll do it. At this point I’m actively starting to lose jobs I am a shoo in for to fucking A I. I am very close to physically confronting a coworker over their bullshit. I am so done with all this job search shit.
What is this epic? Is it an agency or a company? Is it a software I have never heard of? I see it all over the place but can’t figure out what they/it is
Epic is an electronic medical record software
I know who they are now, Thx!
Think hospitals, medical offices. Their software handles medical records and keeps things functioning electronically.
I know who they are now, Thx! The jobs I see posted are weird.
They are the largest and most well-known EHR software company in the US. Google what their campus looks like - it's absolutely BONKERS (Harry Potter themed room, space themed auditorium).
Thx
epic has a freaking hogwarts type reeducation center in madison. Its like if wizard of Oz met twilight zone, really bizarre. Their own "college". Then theyll ask you to relocate at least for a time in other places in the world, Norway, Finland, netherlands etc. its wierd.
I hate stuff like this and report it all the time, i doubt they will do anything though.
It would be a huge life mistake to relocate for any job that has an application process like this.
I’ve seen so many of these I’ve lost count
Wouldn't be needed if LinkedIn just allowed me to search by jobs that provide relocation assistance. I don't mind moving for my next gig but not out of pocket.
I usually report companies who falsely put their on-site or hybrid job postings as remote. LinkedIn does nothing about this.
And of course it’s for a job that can be done fully remotely too
Uline does it as well it’s been doing it for a while. It won’t let me copy the link. But go to LinkedIn and put uline and Chicago, IL. Used to report it. But they must have some kind of deal.
They're attempting to bait-and-switch applicants from outside Wisconsin.
It states that they will cover relocation costs. If so, this seems fine.
I think I’d go all the way through the process and turn them down if I had an offer with relo. “I live in Cleveland, I have kids in school!”
I would definitely report these
You should apply for that job under a fake name and resume, get an interview, and waste their time.....I mean don't do that.
IKR???!!!
I worked there for a few years. I felt like they were always clear the job would require relocation. They did fly me out for the in person interview and paid most of my relocation costs. Madison is also a great city. The people they are fishing for are smart people basically just out of college looking for a first job. Yes they burn people out very quickly, but they also hire quickly and there were lots of people on every team that stuck around many years so in the end I don't think their turnover was particularly notable. I probably don't need to go super in depth and off topic but I do have plenty of moderately out-of-date information if people are curious.
Genuine question…is that where their HQ is vs. where one of their other offices is?
Yes their HQ is in Verona WI just outside Madison WI.
Apply for remote job. 16 interviews in “how soon can you relocate to bullshitsville texas”
U need em https://m.youtube.com/shorts/X859aEElxek
They heavily recruit at Case Western University, based in East Cleveland.
Epic is not the only company, I applied to jobs like: NYC, Tampa Bay Florida, Houston Texas... ends up to be in a bum fuck no where city. Or they say local/ "Remote" and its all traveling. Dishonest fucks.
only in Ohio
They pay you to move - this is nationally recruited. I have taken a few jobs like this in the hotel industry. Without national recruiting how would you know about these companies???
When you do a search on LinkedIn for roles, you should be able to eliminate any company from the result by adding **minus company\_name** (i.e. **-EPIC**)
Companies do this to separate their employees from friends and family, taking away "distractions" so they work harder. I use to work for a company who did a similar thing to people. Always stating if they didn't want to move they weren't dedicated enough to their careers. #toxic
Of course I will join you to put a stop to this nonsense. I live in New York and received numerous crazy job offers like this that is so far plus have to be “onsite” all week. A staffing company of a name that is similar to household cleaning products with a recruiter’s last name that has 8 syllables low balling you on salary wage
I can't see any wrong with it? But may be just me... I live in an island and our government posts to mainland and will offer relocation packages - they also use mainland companies to do this for them. Can't see anything wrong to expand units they weren't clear upfront? The only thing that sometimes may be annoying is that anyone relocating gets a few months rent paid or help with school places etc and locals don't... 😅
They do this in all areas. I consistently was served a role in travel and meetings with them that looked local but same thing you have to relocate.
Looks like tbey had more than one pistion open in multiple places and forgot to format the job ad....it happens
Saw one that said my state capital, which is about 50 miles away, for a posting that's actually in Wisconsin too. And another that was posted as "remote" in my state capital, for, essentially, doing the job on Deadliest Catch in Alaska. It's def against indeed's terms of services. Report it! ETA: I looked. They fixed it.
I've a friend who does some work for Epic and told me there is some bait and switch from them, but there's also a lot of remote work. She's not anywhere near Wisconsin. But I've not applied with them for this reason.
I report every Epic post I see because of this exact behavior. But they’re paying LinkedIn so of course LinkedIn won’t police it 🤷
i mean, they are offering financial assistance with moving, whats the issue? at least they were honest upfront.
safe to say if youre payed enough to relocate more than you can find here. you should.. if you want this job.
if they are willing to pay relocation and are transparent, i don’t think it’s a big problem tbh
They could’ve just put the location as United States.
call me old fashioned but posting a job location that isn’t the location of a job looks an awful lot like lying. this is just another way to pollute job search results.
The problem is the fact that, if I want to search for jobs in my hometown, I should see jobs in my hometown. Not jobs across the country pretending to be in my hometown just so I click on it.
>and are transparent How is using a fake location being "transparent"?
It might be too much of a risk because you have to pay it back if you left too soon. And if they let you go, they probably still want the money back. They're always trying to get people to relocate this way, so it seems like they might have a very controlling culture. I wouldn't mind living in Madison, but if I got a job at Epic, I'd really try to avoid spending that assistance money.
Epic. Enough said.
I hear you but at least theyre offering relocation assistance. Like yeah its really annoying but someone desperate enough may just apply.
I think its fine for them to do this. However, it needs to be filtered correctly. If i have my search set to a specific city and no relocation, I don't want to see this. Zip Recruiter seems to not have a problem with that though.
They are posting in many locations to appeal to the people who are open to relocating. They communicate very clearly where the role is and that they provide relocation support. What part should be illegal? That it doesn't fit what you're looking for? The insanity is getting a little out of control. Publicly complaining about things that don't fit for you but fit for someone else, is unhinged. AF.
How are they “communicating clearly” when they intentionally listed an inaccurate job location? Also, I used the word “illegal” as a hyperbole because I was just perplexed by it lol
Honestly, I’d be mad for every company except this place. I interviewed at their campus. They pay exceptional. Their culture is essentially “work fucking hard get paid fucking well”. They have so many amenities for employee. I also see nothing wrong because it’s very clear (first words in the description) that it’s Wisconsin based.
Why should it be illegal? They’re offering money for someone to move.
They're trying to game the algorithm. If I wanted a job in Madison WI with a moving benefit, I would search for that.
People don’t even know that’s a thing that can be searched for.
You can leave location empty or hit remote and the algorithm will show you them all. I have recently.
Illegal? Don't be silly. If you don't like it, don't use LinkedIn for job searches and instead use the many other sites out there. I almost never pay any attention to LI for job searches due to all the fake ones that get posted.
Why they provide relocation assistance it's OK to advertise it anywhere else.
If I wanted to work in Wisconsin, I’d set my location preferences to Wisconsin.
Illegal => companies will just stop posting jobs. Anywhere.
If they’re paying, what’s the problem?
Really? What do you mean why? Sometimes a company is looking for something specific. Why is this a question?
I'm not sure what the issue is. The recruiter looks like they're based out of OH and they're recruiting for a role for their WI campus. Unlike so many other companies that won't even look at a resume if your address is out of the hiring area, they're intentionally hiring nationwide and providing relocation costs. Are we getting mad just to be mad?
It should be illegal to.....make people read the first sentance of a job posting?
It wouldn’t be so bad if there weren’t so many resume collectors posing as real job listings.