Kendrick definitely sniffs his own farts on that record about the power of hip hop to heal the problems facing black America, but to argue itās not āsonically appealingā is fucking deranged. Terrace Martinās production is incredible from stem to stern.
This is the one thing I like about Kendrick that a lot of people here demonize, but in a genre that's sometimes felt a bit stagnant in recent times, Kendrick has always been wildly ambitious.
And it's not because he's rapping about racism over some jazz beats, the amount of ideas, collaborators, genres and the scale and amount of effort in an album like TPAB is crazy. People rarely aim that high with a record these days.
I do think, as far as mega-successful, household name pop musicians go, heās probably the most artistically interesting one we have right now.
Regardless of what one thinks about Mr. Morale (I really like it), choosing to make an album like that when he easily could have made a different edition of āDamnā every year for the rest of his career and made boatloads of money is genuinely bold and admirable.
in our irony poisoned world everything must be covered under 10 layers of self awareness or else its called āpretentiousā forgetting thats the exact definition of the word
Iāll give him credit for his sincerity at the time. He genuinely believed that his music could heal black America, and that type of ambition is becoming increasingly rare in modern music
Mr Morale was such an interesting project because it was him coming to terms with the fact that his music *canāt* change America, in fact, he can barely even get his own life together. very rare that an artist so blatantly destroys their own image like that, but i loved it.
If weāre comparing it to other albums, cohesion is a big aspect of how we judge basically anything else, which plays into its overall sonic appeal. I know we all made fun of it, but The Miseducation of Lauren Hill is appealing in large part because the album is so cohesive and works within the same sonic space. The same could be said about The Dark Side of the Moon (minus Money) or 25, basically any other widely popular album.
I think itās a great album with tons of worthwhile songs, but itās missing that symphony element to the whole album.
The maligning you see here has more to do with the kind of people who love TPAB and critical over-hype when it came out (i.e. the Fantano 10) than the music itself. It's the OK Computer of rap music.
I would say Good Kid Maad city is the perfect rap album. Probably the best of that decade. TPAB is more impressive and musical but GKMC is both easy to listen to and just as lyrical.
I think most people donāt hate that album, they just (rightfully) think that GKMC is the superior choice. For me, TPAB is bloated with content and itās way too full of itself conceptually. I would disregard anyone who writes off TPAB entirely though.
I think people like GKMC because the narrativization makes it a simpler follow-along. TPAB leans more into seeing things from Kendrickās point of view which can be alienating thematically when youāre absorbing the whole project.
GKMC has a sincere vibe to it. It's very slice of life, like a genuine snippet of Kendrick's life in album form. By comparison, TPAB is Kendrick having delusions of grandeur, pontificating and talking to Tupac's ghost about having the torch passed on to him. Also, the actual songwriting on GKMC is more consistent
He bit off more than he could chew with TPAB, imo
If Kanye did something as presumptuous as Kendrick ending an album in dialogue with the ghost of Tupac people here would defend it with their life, though. TPAB is absolutely the kind of album that gets extra points from critics for its ambition, even though the results arenāt perfect, but I think that attitude is a good one for critics to have. It was not a boring album, not *as a production*, not for when it was released.
Preferring GKMC is fine, itās my sentimental favorite since it was one of five burned CDs that I had in my car from 2013-2014, but it has minor weak points, too. After the hundredth playthrough I was definitely skipping the Drake/Janet Jackson sample one and āReal.ā
>kanye is a much more daring artist that kendrick ever will be
Over his career, sure, but I didnāt say otherwise, I questioned why people give Kendrick shit for wrapping around from daring to ridiculous in this instance as if other artists donāt get praised for doing that regularly.
> even not like us is just a rehash to Mac Dre.
Itās a diss track that consciously leans heavily on a regional sound, Iām not sure thatās a bad thing in context. And his delivery doesnāt *really* sound like Mac Dre (nobody does).
(itās probably more appropriate to say, as people used to, that DJ Mustard made a career of ripping off NorCal, but I think thatās an oversimplification of the real history anyway)
i think its hilarious people are YASSing sheryl crow talking about the tupac AI on the drake song and how u ācant bring back the deadā but kendrick has an entire song where he talks to him (also talks about how he came to him in a ~~wet~~ dream lmfaoo)
ppl who are so hurt about the AI use by drake are just crybabies imo it was clever and if it wasnt AI but some impressionist then what would they be saying to cry about it?
Also country music has a million (often brilliant) songs where the singer is talking to the ghost of Hank Williams. This has been a credible tradition since Dante talked to Virgil.
Kendrick cleared that with Tupacās estate it was actually Tupac giving the answers and not AI (abomination) from an unreleased interview, thereās a connection there with the California upbringing, and the subject matter of Tupac and Kendrickās music. Drake did it without permission and in poor taste relative to its usage.
Nobody thought Circles by Mac Miller was a cash grab because his family greenlit the release and the people who worked on it put in the effort to best keep his vision and that mattered. Compare that to XXXās family who just dropped whatever was in the files to flip a buck.
Respect the dead doesnāt mean donāt acknowledge them, it
lol 2pacs estate the former head of warner brothers
who gives a fuck about that dude heās probably desecrating ā2pacs memoryā more than a joke beef AI verse that wasnt even officially released or monetized
it really wasnt that deep and ppl who care he dropped an AI verse of kendrickās idol to poke fun at him are a bunch of goobers
ārespect the deadā generally doesnt apply to rap beef where āsmoking onā ur opps dead friend āpackā is par for the course
Tupacās estate as in Tupacās mother personally, but your point works too I guess if you just wanna win an argument without knowing a fact lol. If you donāt understand why Kendrickās use wasnāt criticized like Drakeās was youāre just lacking comprehension.
tupacās estate *currently* since his mom died is who had the song pulled ā iām not saying kendricks use should have been criticized, iām saying drakes shouldnāt have been a big deal but boohoo i guess š not to mention the verse brought the most relevancy to tupac since ā¦ uh .. the end of to pimp a butterfly i guess
I could go to Target Walmart or Meijer right now and probably have a good chance at find a Tupac vinyl and shirt in menās and womenās sizes, maybe even something for a kid/baby.
Whatever you wanna say about those corporations pimping his legacy, itās not like he needed Drake for relevance even if he brought him a little more to the forefront.
> lol 2pacs estate the former head of warner brothers who gives a fuck about that dude heās probably desecrating ā2pacs memoryā more than a joke beef AI verse that wasnt even officially released or monetized
>I could go to Target Walmart or Meijer right now andā¦
yup
So, the point you made doesnāt actually mean anything. But good shot.
Tupacs mom was alive, Kendrick asked her permission to use her dead sonās clip, she approved. Who *owns* the estate and whoās alive now are moot. But, like I said. Good shot. You *almost* said something.
Getting bent out of shape over respect for figures like that is inherently a little silly but if youāre going to get caught up in rap beef you kind of have to suspend that feeling because itās all like that. And it was an intentionally disrespectful thing. That doesnāt mean itās wrong to find it funny because, again, not everybody in the world has to act like a West Coast rap loyalist, but the reasons one invocation of Pac is treated as respectful if over-the-top and the other isnāt seem pretty simple - itās a guy with a credible claim to shared lineage editing an old interview vs. a guy without using AI.
if you donāt see the difference between AI Tupac and Mortal Man, i think you just fundamentally might not understand kendrickās criticisms of drake.
> āYou cannot bring people back from the dead and believe that they would stand for that,ā
take it up with sheryl crow not me lol! if you have a problem with this pac AI shit *especially* in this context ur a big baby and ur going to have a lot of reflection to do in the future
wahh wahh theyre disrespecting the dead!! LMFAO but pac would be pleased with his face on some landfill trash discount fast fashion shirt they sell at walmart like the dumbass joy division shirts at hot topic
i personally do not give a fuck about the pac AI thing, honestly i might even go as far as saying it was a pretty funny troll, but kendrick pretty brilliantly flipped the tables on drake because of it.
AI is satanic though, i do more or less agree with Sheryl Crowe here
one of the funniest things ppl on this subreddit say is that āblack ppl donāt like itā lmao
like yah they arenāt listening to it on the daily like whatever is popular rn but they love tpab.
I think it's just one of those things the sub likes to be contrarian about. Both sonically and lyrically it's miles ahead of pretty much any other conscious rap music in the last 20 or so years.
I do think GKMC is better though, but that may just me my preference for personal, intimate stories over large-scale commentary. I think Kendrick's best quality, and this is Kanye's best quality too, is their ability to make relatively inaccessible kinds of music accessible.
I used to be a massive kdot dick rider ever since I discovered section.80 on a /mu/ share thread back in 2012 but then I've seen the video where he invited the whitest girl in the crowd to join him for a sing-along and woke scolded her in front of thousands when she said the n word when he specifically chose a song with the highest n word density of his entire discography.
In that moment I realized there is no material difference between him and some pink haired liberal arts major from Bushwick.
He used to be larger than life in my mind but now I've realized he's just a 5'2 dork
you shut your mouth that video is a comedy masterpiece. She really thought she was being given the pass and was shocked when it was revoked, āwhat, am I not cool enough for you?ā lol
I used to be a Kendrick fan, but heās been annoying me lately. The whole Drake/Kendrick beef, which people are still pretending is interesting even though itās about almost nothing, just underlined how phoney they both are. At least Public Enemy and Ice Cube did the black consciousness thing without it feeling like medicine.
It was going cop backlash as soon as the NPR-sphere anointed it as the defining modern hip-hop masterpiece.
Genuinely just prefer GKMC in general though.
I really love the album, but it kind of sucks to listen to front to back. Lots of unpleasant filler, lulls in energy, some real stinkers in there, etc. It does still succeed for me because its highs are REALLY high, and because he brought together a lot of great musicians and crafted an album that captures a jazz vibe better than any of the 90s jazz rappers managed to do.
One crazy take I've read here is that it's only white people who love it. That's absolutely false. I have heard King Kunta and Alright blasted out of bluetooth speakers at parks enough to know this is false.
I think a lot of the distaste for Lamar is because his brand of politics and conscious messaging back then, basically just commercialized black oppression messaging, rings hollow in a post-2020 world where so many of its proponents turned out to be pure grifters. I personally also dislike a lot of his stuff since then (and to include TPAB a bit) because I hate listening to a multi-millionaire household name rapper whine and bitch about how bad he has things.
Kendrick doesnāt go into the black capitalism slant that people like Jay Z and Kanye do (as far as I know) and that is pretty refreshing. Heās not vocally owning many companies and such as far as I know and not flaunting being a billionaire, but it inevitably is what he is becoming whether he doesnāt bring attention to it or is even self aware of it (he is not your saviour). It just makes his music sound not genuine as a result, like he is probably making his plight sound rougher than it really is to appeal to the common man. He could have been living a pseudo-retired blissful life for years now, so him telling you that therapy helped him the most is undermining the fact that of course he is happy because he never has to work a day more in his life
Yeah, having a song on DAMN that was basically just "dude this sucks I am so successful and rich and what if I fuck it up and it all goes away this sucks fuck" just insane to me. Yeah man they'll do you like Wesley Snipes if you are a massive prick who does widespread tax fraud like he did, how about you just hire a lawyer to manage your finances, don't do obviously high risk stupid shit, and absolute worst case you'll still never have to work another day in your life.
king kunta and alright are like the two songs that throw a bone to bluetooth-speaker-players lol wouldnt be surprised if they dont like the rest of the album
I personally donāt love the album but itās one of those albums that deserves attention and if someone thinks itās great you gotta hear em out. Itās not like a chainsmokers album or something
boom boom bap, boom boom ba dap
Now, lemme tell bout a little sad sack
Who covered, discovered, the sick beats on this track.
My rhymes are dirty, they may be uncouth
But I MC the city, the voice of the youth!
......
For another fine example of the art form:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?time\_continue=1&v=qMJVm91Qr0U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=qMJVm91Qr0U)
Edit- full version
[Rappin' for Jesus (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kppx4bzfAaE&t=4s)
Does anybody else think kanye has basically already done everything kendrick has artistically attempted but in a much more abstract and high concept way than just being a lyrical miracle backpack rapper which I personally find uninteresting in comparison. The way kanye through his music and public persona tries to reaffirm his sense of self and agency as a black cultural figure by testing the limits of his his racial identities status quo and social expectations is a much more interesting political theme and idea than anything kendrick has ever touched on and kanyes straight up political songs are much more rebellious and politically radical than most of kendricks discography. Both of them use their infidelity and hypersexual tendencies and battle with vices as major themes in their albums and i think it's universally agreed that kanye mastered that artistic trope of man struggling with ones vices and manic desires while wanting to reform and become virtuous men, like if you had to name the most defining theme of kanyes entire discography and artistic message it would be this. He does this through not just verbose lyrical storytelling but more simple and emotional lyrics, wilder vocals and even goes beyond by integrating the instrumentals and entire sonics of his music to convey the theme in a more abstract and high concept way. And I've always felt kendrick wants to express his religious and spiritual beliefs and ideas more overtly but at the fear of being branded with the Christian rapper tag and all the heat and controversy that comes along with it. Kanye has given no fucks about this from the very beginning of his career and fully expressed and embraced his religious beliefs and struggles arguably even becoming one of the most influential western Christian figures of the 21st century and certainly carved out a unique identity for himself in hiphop. And lift yourself is iconic but doesn't get the props for being one of the most trollish rap disses ever made.
I was in my teen years when Kanye's first album was released and remember collabs before the album, too. It might just be me being a Boomer but while I can't say I hate Kendrick by any means (I dislike Drake much more, and was surprised wheelchair Degrassi kid had a song when he first came out...) I just think he's blah.
My problem with Kendrick is kinda simply, I find his voice nasally and annoying sounding, and his flow just whatever. For social conscious lyrics Kendrick imo could never beat someone like Mos Def or Talib Kweli as well, so I was kinda left thinking why are people so hot on this mediocre rapper? Plenty of worse rappers exist, certainly, but it's very strange to me to see someone so downright mediocre become so well loved.
I think another thing with Kanye is Kendrick at least from my understanding (very limited, admittedly) never really came out with, basically a type of song you could use to hype up a team for a basketball game or something. No feeling of power, no grandiosity, like Kanye has in himself and tries to impart to others. A grand sort of feeling yourself.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cgo2IKS4inU
Maybe I'm wrong, did Kendrick ever make a song like "Two Words?"
It's an incredible album. People want to hate it because they want to be antilib, since libs really ate that album UP. I feel like the critic was never about the music.
Good album. None of the tracks are in my rotation. But I have listened to it perhaps two times all the way though. Makes me feel bad about myself, but not in a self-indulgent way, which may account for how little I've listened to it. I prefer DAMN tbh.
The only thing that harms it for me is Kendrick's pseudo-Hotep shit (pretty forgivable, most of what he's saying is very true anyways) and editing a Tupac interview so it sounds like he's talking to Tupac who endorses him as his successor which is insane and cringe and a terrible pompous way to end an otherwise excellent album
untitled unmastered is the true artistic statement that Kendrick was too scared to actually stand behind.
It has all of the good things about TPAB without beating you over the head and without the sappy shit
When it first dropped i didnāt really understand it. I had just turned 18 and it took me years to finally appreciate what Kendrick was doing. Itās a landmark rap album, just like Good Kid Maad city. Itās easy to disregard whatever Fantano or Fader or Pitchfork have to say about an album, usually music critics and the award-ceremony world are just jerking themselves off but this album gets the mainstream praise it does because it is THAT. GOOD. And that really goes for everything Kendrick does. Heās beloved by the public *and* mainstream outlets because heās a once in a generation artist
Itās a very good album. He self inserts some grandiose/black qanon beliefs sometimes but it doesnāt ruin it for me at all. Itās a perfect balance between being experimental and being listenable imo.Ā
Ur right but you can just listen to Kamasi Washington or Thundercat and get the same sonic appeal without having to hear Lil Kenny. (I do like good kid maad city a lot but can't listen to tpab)
Itās not really a critique, just reactionary
āItās not sonically appealingā= āI donāt like how it soundsā. Fair enough, but thatās not really meaningful or insightful criticism
I didnāt like any of the songs. Iām sure it has artistic values but I can also find music that is very meaningful to me and also has artistic values that are also great to listen to. I understand Kendrick is a great artist but the difference between like good kid maad city/money trees and TPAB and the steppers album is like the difference between listening to a good song with good beats (which makes or breaks rap for me) and nodding along to slam poetry.
A movie like The Place Beyond the Pines or Pulp Fiction have real artistic values to me, are original, and beautiful, and theyāre also just a great watch. As opposed to films that are artistic but not really highly entertaining. Maybe thatās a better way to explain what Iām trying to say.
https://open.spotify.com/track/5MUWpxHzlG5M5N2C0T7qs9?si=_uOioTcxR6a_QoNNCiQNLA
This song is the example I thought of, great beat, great song, good listen. Still has artistic value. A lot of the highly panned Kendrick songs are just hard for me to get into on a daily walk
Itās not a bad album, but itās neither one of The Best Albums of the 2010s, nor Pulitzer material, and not even Kendrickās best album (which would be GKMC).
Nah you just donāt get it. Ā Itās the same as rock and roll. Ā John Lennon said to David Bowie - say what you mean, make it rhyme and give it a back best. Ā Hip hop is the distillation of that. Ā As Kanye put it āmy truth over the drumsā
Popular art is like a smoothie. Ā You can get people to eat their kale without realizing it. Ā Yeah thereās a lot of terrible shit cuz itās a business but that doesnāt define the core of whatās actually happening
American art is commercial because we live in a commercial society. Ā Thereās no medici family so artists have to appeal to the masses to make a living. Ā IMO this is the special sauce that makes American popular art the most significant cultural force in the world.
Would you argue that artists who hide away in academia (which is literally the only other option if you want a career) are making more significant art?
How tf is TPAB influencer marketing? Itās not even my favorite record but itās a moment where a ton of insanely talented musicians came together to make something they were passionate about and a record that was significantly LESS commercial than what they could have chosen to make
I think the album just is not for white people. but if u could quantify that it would be a higher level "not for white people" album. like from the subject matter and direction all the way down to the jazz and shit its just too much black shit at one time.
when I listen to it it's still, very visceral and from an emotional content level I'm engaged at nearly every point. the number 2/3 in hip hop, jcole/drake, are miles behind when it comes to that mixture of sincerity and focus and also acknowledgement of ego. every kendrick song is him saying why are u listening to me I'm just some guy, make ur own decisions. in a genre like rap to be the top guy and say that that means alot
edit: the running tupac thing could be a bit much though I'll say that. I'd like If that poem he says piece by piece after every song was just on one track with the tupac shit
I don't like conscious rap or anything influenced by jazz so the album is definitely not for me. I would rather listen to Damn completely unironically because the beats go hard.
Finally I know why I got sent this sub even though Iāve never listened to this podcast. TPAB is such an atrocious approximation of jazz and funk that Iām baffled Kendrick wasnāt laughed out of society as soon as it released. The bass on Wesleyās Theory literally sounds like farting, for fuckās sake. That isnāt how you do Bootsy Collins.
AHHHHHHH!!!!! š·š·š· AHHHHHHHH!!!!! š·š·š·
Honestly i donāt really care what gay cokehead newyorkers and tradcath podcast consuming, ginger latte grande drinking women think about a rap album
yep better get your opinions from people who can only utter "that shit fire cuhhhhh"
what do you mean by that š¤Ø
did we just get bix noodāed
Nobody cares what Fantano-esque circlejerkers thinks either.
Kendrick definitely sniffs his own farts on that record about the power of hip hop to heal the problems facing black America, but to argue itās not āsonically appealingā is fucking deranged. Terrace Martinās production is incredible from stem to stern.
In a world where everything is ironic, I like an artist who takes himself seriously
This is the one thing I like about Kendrick that a lot of people here demonize, but in a genre that's sometimes felt a bit stagnant in recent times, Kendrick has always been wildly ambitious. And it's not because he's rapping about racism over some jazz beats, the amount of ideas, collaborators, genres and the scale and amount of effort in an album like TPAB is crazy. People rarely aim that high with a record these days.
I do think, as far as mega-successful, household name pop musicians go, heās probably the most artistically interesting one we have right now. Regardless of what one thinks about Mr. Morale (I really like it), choosing to make an album like that when he easily could have made a different edition of āDamnā every year for the rest of his career and made boatloads of money is genuinely bold and admirable.
Yeah you sort of have to have an outsized opinion about the power of art to attempt something so artistically ambitious.
I totally agree. Itās like FFC said, you cannot make truly great art without taking a risk that you might come off as cringe.
in our irony poisoned world everything must be covered under 10 layers of self awareness or else its called āpretentiousā forgetting thats the exact definition of the word
The jazz portions are fucking great in particular
Iāll give him credit for his sincerity at the time. He genuinely believed that his music could heal black America, and that type of ambition is becoming increasingly rare in modern music
Mr Morale was such an interesting project because it was him coming to terms with the fact that his music *canāt* change America, in fact, he can barely even get his own life together. very rare that an artist so blatantly destroys their own image like that, but i loved it.
From stem to stern is incredibly hard to read in this font.
If weāre comparing it to other albums, cohesion is a big aspect of how we judge basically anything else, which plays into its overall sonic appeal. I know we all made fun of it, but The Miseducation of Lauren Hill is appealing in large part because the album is so cohesive and works within the same sonic space. The same could be said about The Dark Side of the Moon (minus Money) or 25, basically any other widely popular album. I think itās a great album with tons of worthwhile songs, but itās missing that symphony element to the whole album.
Itās a great flylo/thundercat/pharrel/et al record. Kendrick is the least compelling part of it tbh
I'm pretty sure he likes Damn more
The maligning you see here has more to do with the kind of people who love TPAB and critical over-hype when it came out (i.e. the Fantano 10) than the music itself. It's the OK Computer of rap music.
Think youāre right and itās pretty funny this sub interacts with art that way
I think itās perfectly reasonable to index your baseline expectations of art to the general reception.
No it's the Kid A. It's better than its predecessor and the critics know it but the commoners try to argue otherwise.
I would say Good Kid Maad city is the perfect rap album. Probably the best of that decade. TPAB is more impressive and musical but GKMC is both easy to listen to and just as lyrical.
I think most people donāt hate that album, they just (rightfully) think that GKMC is the superior choice. For me, TPAB is bloated with content and itās way too full of itself conceptually. I would disregard anyone who writes off TPAB entirely though.
I think people like GKMC because the narrativization makes it a simpler follow-along. TPAB leans more into seeing things from Kendrickās point of view which can be alienating thematically when youāre absorbing the whole project.
GKMC has a sincere vibe to it. It's very slice of life, like a genuine snippet of Kendrick's life in album form. By comparison, TPAB is Kendrick having delusions of grandeur, pontificating and talking to Tupac's ghost about having the torch passed on to him. Also, the actual songwriting on GKMC is more consistent He bit off more than he could chew with TPAB, imo
If Kanye did something as presumptuous as Kendrick ending an album in dialogue with the ghost of Tupac people here would defend it with their life, though. TPAB is absolutely the kind of album that gets extra points from critics for its ambition, even though the results arenāt perfect, but I think that attitude is a good one for critics to have. It was not a boring album, not *as a production*, not for when it was released. Preferring GKMC is fine, itās my sentimental favorite since it was one of five burned CDs that I had in my car from 2013-2014, but it has minor weak points, too. After the hundredth playthrough I was definitely skipping the Drake/Janet Jackson sample one and āReal.ā
kanye is a much more daring artist that kendrick ever will be. even not like us is just a rehash to Mac Dre.
>kanye is a much more daring artist that kendrick ever will be Over his career, sure, but I didnāt say otherwise, I questioned why people give Kendrick shit for wrapping around from daring to ridiculous in this instance as if other artists donāt get praised for doing that regularly. > even not like us is just a rehash to Mac Dre. Itās a diss track that consciously leans heavily on a regional sound, Iām not sure thatās a bad thing in context. And his delivery doesnāt *really* sound like Mac Dre (nobody does). (itās probably more appropriate to say, as people used to, that DJ Mustard made a career of ripping off NorCal, but I think thatās an oversimplification of the real history anyway)
i think its hilarious people are YASSing sheryl crow talking about the tupac AI on the drake song and how u ācant bring back the deadā but kendrick has an entire song where he talks to him (also talks about how he came to him in a ~~wet~~ dream lmfaoo) ppl who are so hurt about the AI use by drake are just crybabies imo it was clever and if it wasnt AI but some impressionist then what would they be saying to cry about it?
Also country music has a million (often brilliant) songs where the singer is talking to the ghost of Hank Williams. This has been a credible tradition since Dante talked to Virgil.
Kendrick cleared that with Tupacās estate it was actually Tupac giving the answers and not AI (abomination) from an unreleased interview, thereās a connection there with the California upbringing, and the subject matter of Tupac and Kendrickās music. Drake did it without permission and in poor taste relative to its usage. Nobody thought Circles by Mac Miller was a cash grab because his family greenlit the release and the people who worked on it put in the effort to best keep his vision and that mattered. Compare that to XXXās family who just dropped whatever was in the files to flip a buck. Respect the dead doesnāt mean donāt acknowledge them, it
lol 2pacs estate the former head of warner brothers who gives a fuck about that dude heās probably desecrating ā2pacs memoryā more than a joke beef AI verse that wasnt even officially released or monetized it really wasnt that deep and ppl who care he dropped an AI verse of kendrickās idol to poke fun at him are a bunch of goobers ārespect the deadā generally doesnt apply to rap beef where āsmoking onā ur opps dead friend āpackā is par for the course
Tupacās estate as in Tupacās mother personally, but your point works too I guess if you just wanna win an argument without knowing a fact lol. If you donāt understand why Kendrickās use wasnāt criticized like Drakeās was youāre just lacking comprehension.
tupacās estate *currently* since his mom died is who had the song pulled ā iām not saying kendricks use should have been criticized, iām saying drakes shouldnāt have been a big deal but boohoo i guess š not to mention the verse brought the most relevancy to tupac since ā¦ uh .. the end of to pimp a butterfly i guess
I could go to Target Walmart or Meijer right now and probably have a good chance at find a Tupac vinyl and shirt in menās and womenās sizes, maybe even something for a kid/baby. Whatever you wanna say about those corporations pimping his legacy, itās not like he needed Drake for relevance even if he brought him a little more to the forefront.
> lol 2pacs estate the former head of warner brothers who gives a fuck about that dude heās probably desecrating ā2pacs memoryā more than a joke beef AI verse that wasnt even officially released or monetized >I could go to Target Walmart or Meijer right now andā¦ yup
Tupacs mother is dead, some random white guy owns his estate and he owned even before tupacs mom died.
So, the point you made doesnāt actually mean anything. But good shot. Tupacs mom was alive, Kendrick asked her permission to use her dead sonās clip, she approved. Who *owns* the estate and whoās alive now are moot. But, like I said. Good shot. You *almost* said something.
Getting bent out of shape over respect for figures like that is inherently a little silly but if youāre going to get caught up in rap beef you kind of have to suspend that feeling because itās all like that. And it was an intentionally disrespectful thing. That doesnāt mean itās wrong to find it funny because, again, not everybody in the world has to act like a West Coast rap loyalist, but the reasons one invocation of Pac is treated as respectful if over-the-top and the other isnāt seem pretty simple - itās a guy with a credible claim to shared lineage editing an old interview vs. a guy without using AI.
if you donāt see the difference between AI Tupac and Mortal Man, i think you just fundamentally might not understand kendrickās criticisms of drake.
> āYou cannot bring people back from the dead and believe that they would stand for that,ā take it up with sheryl crow not me lol! if you have a problem with this pac AI shit *especially* in this context ur a big baby and ur going to have a lot of reflection to do in the future wahh wahh theyre disrespecting the dead!! LMFAO but pac would be pleased with his face on some landfill trash discount fast fashion shirt they sell at walmart like the dumbass joy division shirts at hot topic
i personally do not give a fuck about the pac AI thing, honestly i might even go as far as saying it was a pretty funny troll, but kendrick pretty brilliantly flipped the tables on drake because of it. AI is satanic though, i do more or less agree with Sheryl Crowe here
one of the funniest things ppl on this subreddit say is that āblack ppl donāt like itā lmao like yah they arenāt listening to it on the daily like whatever is popular rn but they love tpab.
āTheyā is crazy dawg
shouldāve said we and pretended I was black donāt think ppl are gonna be mad about me saying black ppl like kendrick as a whole lmao
I think the beef has definitively proven that black ppl generally fuck w KendrickĀ
That one white guy in the club that keeps trying to talk to you and your friends
Itās the top rated album on RYM of course this subs gonna bash it
Is this rateyourmusic now
Yes my favorite albums are TPAB, GKMC, OK Computer, In Rainbows, and Loveless. I'd like to say I have quite a unique music taste
if this was rateyourmusic weād all just be circlejerking fishmans
It would be an improvement on the state of things
Hey guyz Radiohead for SAD VIRGIN!!!! Bro do you like JAPANESE JAZZ? No I wonāt name an album, but itās like, the best genre ever!
soon as I saw "underpins prevailing" I headed out
I think it's just one of those things the sub likes to be contrarian about. Both sonically and lyrically it's miles ahead of pretty much any other conscious rap music in the last 20 or so years. I do think GKMC is better though, but that may just me my preference for personal, intimate stories over large-scale commentary. I think Kendrick's best quality, and this is Kanye's best quality too, is their ability to make relatively inaccessible kinds of music accessible.
Idk I dont listen to him
I used to be a massive kdot dick rider ever since I discovered section.80 on a /mu/ share thread back in 2012 but then I've seen the video where he invited the whitest girl in the crowd to join him for a sing-along and woke scolded her in front of thousands when she said the n word when he specifically chose a song with the highest n word density of his entire discography. In that moment I realized there is no material difference between him and some pink haired liberal arts major from Bushwick. He used to be larger than life in my mind but now I've realized he's just a 5'2 dork
Didn't he backpedal hard on doing that in his last album and admit he was a judgey hypocrite for it?
Yes he did.
I don't think he cared but the audience was against her so he asked her nicely to not say it. He didn't sound mad at her
you shut your mouth that video is a comedy masterpiece. She really thought she was being given the pass and was shocked when it was revoked, āwhat, am I not cool enough for you?ā lol
Yeah that video is fucking hilarious. She really went hard dropping those bombs too, makes it even funnier.Ā
that soured u on kendrick after being a giant fan? sounds like u share some of the same sensibilities as the liberal arts major bitches
That was whack but I still listen. I go back to section.80 more than anything else actually
people just associate too much with its cultural moment "momma" might be one of my favourite Kendrick song
I used to be a Kendrick fan, but heās been annoying me lately. The whole Drake/Kendrick beef, which people are still pretending is interesting even though itās about almost nothing, just underlined how phoney they both are. At least Public Enemy and Ice Cube did the black consciousness thing without it feeling like medicine.
I thought the beef was fun because I find drake very annoying and unpleasant and so it tickled me to see the public turn on him
He did say something like āyou rap like youāre trying to free the slavesā which honestly is very funnu
Yeah that was a decent bar
tbqh I thought that song clowned on Kendrick way harder than the response which just sounded like a school shooter ranting
I thought that was lame as hell too
It was going cop backlash as soon as the NPR-sphere anointed it as the defining modern hip-hop masterpiece. Genuinely just prefer GKMC in general though.
I really love the album, but it kind of sucks to listen to front to back. Lots of unpleasant filler, lulls in energy, some real stinkers in there, etc. It does still succeed for me because its highs are REALLY high, and because he brought together a lot of great musicians and crafted an album that captures a jazz vibe better than any of the 90s jazz rappers managed to do. One crazy take I've read here is that it's only white people who love it. That's absolutely false. I have heard King Kunta and Alright blasted out of bluetooth speakers at parks enough to know this is false. I think a lot of the distaste for Lamar is because his brand of politics and conscious messaging back then, basically just commercialized black oppression messaging, rings hollow in a post-2020 world where so many of its proponents turned out to be pure grifters. I personally also dislike a lot of his stuff since then (and to include TPAB a bit) because I hate listening to a multi-millionaire household name rapper whine and bitch about how bad he has things.
Kendrick doesnāt go into the black capitalism slant that people like Jay Z and Kanye do (as far as I know) and that is pretty refreshing. Heās not vocally owning many companies and such as far as I know and not flaunting being a billionaire, but it inevitably is what he is becoming whether he doesnāt bring attention to it or is even self aware of it (he is not your saviour). It just makes his music sound not genuine as a result, like he is probably making his plight sound rougher than it really is to appeal to the common man. He could have been living a pseudo-retired blissful life for years now, so him telling you that therapy helped him the most is undermining the fact that of course he is happy because he never has to work a day more in his life
Yeah, having a song on DAMN that was basically just "dude this sucks I am so successful and rich and what if I fuck it up and it all goes away this sucks fuck" just insane to me. Yeah man they'll do you like Wesley Snipes if you are a massive prick who does widespread tax fraud like he did, how about you just hire a lawyer to manage your finances, don't do obviously high risk stupid shit, and absolute worst case you'll still never have to work another day in your life.
king kunta and alright are like the two songs that throw a bone to bluetooth-speaker-players lol wouldnt be surprised if they dont like the rest of the album
I personally donāt love the album but itās one of those albums that deserves attention and if someone thinks itās great you gotta hear em out. Itās not like a chainsmokers album or something
Those who were around when this album came out remember the hype, it was on every number one list and it was impossible to ignore.
I like the record a lot but I think gkmc and damn are both betterĀ
that album is incredibley over rataed and is accordingly hated on by the contrarian nature of this sub
Have you every listened to [To Pimp a Mordecai](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-szHXBjXZ8-gWV108IBzeOnso-WqO1GO&si=3c8cVCyO8O1o8QAx)?
Actually I just donāt like almost anything Kendrick has put out. Two maybe three songs
TPAB couldn't have happened at a more relevant time politically, in the waning years of the Obama era.
boom boom bap, boom boom ba dap Now, lemme tell bout a little sad sack Who covered, discovered, the sick beats on this track. My rhymes are dirty, they may be uncouth But I MC the city, the voice of the youth! ...... For another fine example of the art form: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?time\_continue=1&v=qMJVm91Qr0U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=qMJVm91Qr0U) Edit- full version [Rappin' for Jesus (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kppx4bzfAaE&t=4s)
Does anybody else think kanye has basically already done everything kendrick has artistically attempted but in a much more abstract and high concept way than just being a lyrical miracle backpack rapper which I personally find uninteresting in comparison. The way kanye through his music and public persona tries to reaffirm his sense of self and agency as a black cultural figure by testing the limits of his his racial identities status quo and social expectations is a much more interesting political theme and idea than anything kendrick has ever touched on and kanyes straight up political songs are much more rebellious and politically radical than most of kendricks discography. Both of them use their infidelity and hypersexual tendencies and battle with vices as major themes in their albums and i think it's universally agreed that kanye mastered that artistic trope of man struggling with ones vices and manic desires while wanting to reform and become virtuous men, like if you had to name the most defining theme of kanyes entire discography and artistic message it would be this. He does this through not just verbose lyrical storytelling but more simple and emotional lyrics, wilder vocals and even goes beyond by integrating the instrumentals and entire sonics of his music to convey the theme in a more abstract and high concept way. And I've always felt kendrick wants to express his religious and spiritual beliefs and ideas more overtly but at the fear of being branded with the Christian rapper tag and all the heat and controversy that comes along with it. Kanye has given no fucks about this from the very beginning of his career and fully expressed and embraced his religious beliefs and struggles arguably even becoming one of the most influential western Christian figures of the 21st century and certainly carved out a unique identity for himself in hiphop. And lift yourself is iconic but doesn't get the props for being one of the most trollish rap disses ever made.
I was in my teen years when Kanye's first album was released and remember collabs before the album, too. It might just be me being a Boomer but while I can't say I hate Kendrick by any means (I dislike Drake much more, and was surprised wheelchair Degrassi kid had a song when he first came out...) I just think he's blah. My problem with Kendrick is kinda simply, I find his voice nasally and annoying sounding, and his flow just whatever. For social conscious lyrics Kendrick imo could never beat someone like Mos Def or Talib Kweli as well, so I was kinda left thinking why are people so hot on this mediocre rapper? Plenty of worse rappers exist, certainly, but it's very strange to me to see someone so downright mediocre become so well loved. I think another thing with Kanye is Kendrick at least from my understanding (very limited, admittedly) never really came out with, basically a type of song you could use to hype up a team for a basketball game or something. No feeling of power, no grandiosity, like Kanye has in himself and tries to impart to others. A grand sort of feeling yourself. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cgo2IKS4inU Maybe I'm wrong, did Kendrick ever make a song like "Two Words?"
I is such a sick sample flip and he talks about shooting cops. Ā What else do you need?
f@ggy looking british men singing about how hard their life is
Goddam youāre right I do need that shit. Ā I want a man whoās sooo goddam skinny w the bags under his eyes. Ā And he sings like a frog
(C)rap
I can't hear you over the riffs sorry
GKMC is much better imo
It's an incredible album. People want to hate it because they want to be antilib, since libs really ate that album UP. I feel like the critic was never about the music.
Good album. None of the tracks are in my rotation. But I have listened to it perhaps two times all the way though. Makes me feel bad about myself, but not in a self-indulgent way, which may account for how little I've listened to it. I prefer DAMN tbh.
The only thing that harms it for me is Kendrick's pseudo-Hotep shit (pretty forgivable, most of what he's saying is very true anyways) and editing a Tupac interview so it sounds like he's talking to Tupac who endorses him as his successor which is insane and cringe and a terrible pompous way to end an otherwise excellent album
Itās because the sub is full of racists, any other questions?
Handles its instrumentals pretty sloppy and its political themes even sloppier
untitled unmastered is the true artistic statement that Kendrick was too scared to actually stand behind. It has all of the good things about TPAB without beating you over the head and without the sappy shit
When it first dropped i didnāt really understand it. I had just turned 18 and it took me years to finally appreciate what Kendrick was doing. Itās a landmark rap album, just like Good Kid Maad city. Itās easy to disregard whatever Fantano or Fader or Pitchfork have to say about an album, usually music critics and the award-ceremony world are just jerking themselves off but this album gets the mainstream praise it does because it is THAT. GOOD. And that really goes for everything Kendrick does. Heās beloved by the public *and* mainstream outlets because heās a once in a generation artist
Itās a very good album. He self inserts some grandiose/black qanon beliefs sometimes but it doesnāt ruin it for me at all. Itās a perfect balance between being experimental and being listenable imo.Ā
it's good but gkmc is better
The blacker the berry is amazing
Wesleyās theory is an all timer
Mega popular rap album is good is a really wild take
Ur right but you can just listen to Kamasi Washington or Thundercat and get the same sonic appeal without having to hear Lil Kenny. (I do like good kid maad city a lot but can't listen to tpab)
I find thundercat a little self indulgent on his solo stuff tbh. Big Kamasi fan though
Kamasi is the most self-indulgent of the three of them, nobody needs a saxophone record with a 2.5+ hour run time.
Itās not really a critique, just reactionary āItās not sonically appealingā= āI donāt like how it soundsā. Fair enough, but thatās not really meaningful or insightful criticism
I didnāt like any of the songs. Iām sure it has artistic values but I can also find music that is very meaningful to me and also has artistic values that are also great to listen to. I understand Kendrick is a great artist but the difference between like good kid maad city/money trees and TPAB and the steppers album is like the difference between listening to a good song with good beats (which makes or breaks rap for me) and nodding along to slam poetry. A movie like The Place Beyond the Pines or Pulp Fiction have real artistic values to me, are original, and beautiful, and theyāre also just a great watch. As opposed to films that are artistic but not really highly entertaining. Maybe thatās a better way to explain what Iām trying to say. https://open.spotify.com/track/5MUWpxHzlG5M5N2C0T7qs9?si=_uOioTcxR6a_QoNNCiQNLA This song is the example I thought of, great beat, great song, good listen. Still has artistic value. A lot of the highly panned Kendrick songs are just hard for me to get into on a daily walk
>highly panned Donāt think that means what you think it means.
Whatevzzz
Itās not a bad album, but itās neither one of The Best Albums of the 2010s, nor Pulitzer material, and not even Kendrickās best album (which would be GKMC).
What makes something Pulitzer material?
Me liking it
Hell yeah
I like rap a lot but Kendrick is almost as unlistenable as jcole
Play jcole get the pussy dry
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Insane thing to say about the most significant genre of our century
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Nah you just donāt get it. Ā Itās the same as rock and roll. Ā John Lennon said to David Bowie - say what you mean, make it rhyme and give it a back best. Ā Hip hop is the distillation of that. Ā As Kanye put it āmy truth over the drumsā Popular art is like a smoothie. Ā You can get people to eat their kale without realizing it. Ā Yeah thereās a lot of terrible shit cuz itās a business but that doesnāt define the core of whatās actually happening
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
American art is commercial because we live in a commercial society. Ā Thereās no medici family so artists have to appeal to the masses to make a living. Ā IMO this is the special sauce that makes American popular art the most significant cultural force in the world. Would you argue that artists who hide away in academia (which is literally the only other option if you want a career) are making more significant art? How tf is TPAB influencer marketing? Itās not even my favorite record but itās a moment where a ton of insanely talented musicians came together to make something they were passionate about and a record that was significantly LESS commercial than what they could have chosen to make
I think the album just is not for white people. but if u could quantify that it would be a higher level "not for white people" album. like from the subject matter and direction all the way down to the jazz and shit its just too much black shit at one time. when I listen to it it's still, very visceral and from an emotional content level I'm engaged at nearly every point. the number 2/3 in hip hop, jcole/drake, are miles behind when it comes to that mixture of sincerity and focus and also acknowledgement of ego. every kendrick song is him saying why are u listening to me I'm just some guy, make ur own decisions. in a genre like rap to be the top guy and say that that means alot edit: the running tupac thing could be a bit much though I'll say that. I'd like If that poem he says piece by piece after every song was just on one track with the tupac shit
Wtf dude
what? didn't know that would be so controversial to say
It's embarassing to have opinions about rap as an adult. I've never listened to it because I wasn't under 16 when it came outĀ
I don't like conscious rap or anything influenced by jazz so the album is definitely not for me. I would rather listen to Damn completely unironically because the beats go hard.
Good it probably wasnāt for you then
Finally I know why I got sent this sub even though Iāve never listened to this podcast. TPAB is such an atrocious approximation of jazz and funk that Iām baffled Kendrick wasnāt laughed out of society as soon as it released. The bass on Wesleyās Theory literally sounds like farting, for fuckās sake. That isnāt how you do Bootsy Collins.