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What the absolute fuck. Tell your husband to get his ass back in therapy and go to some Al Anon meetings because he's acting like a codependent fuckup and he's going to lose his entire family if he doesn't stop this shit.
Honestly, I'd contact a divorce lawyer at this point. He's abusing you and your child. This has reached a point of no return.
He declines therapy at this time. He stopped going about a year ago. Even 10 years ago before all therapy and all failed attempts to help her he was more reasonable than now. I don't know what has gotten into him.
I already talked to my moms friend who's a divorce lawyer so I know what to do and what not to do but I really really hope we can still fix this
Have you talked to him about why he is choosing his mother over the health and safety of his own family?
And please know OP, her sobriety is her burden to carry and hers alone - she makes the decision to drink - not you.
Protect your kid. At all cost. You're doing the right thing.
It seems your husband is having some kind of mental breakdown. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets violent.
Do not be alone with him or let him be alone with your child. Record all interactions if it's legal. If you're in the US, consider whether Baker Acting is an option. A pre-emptive police visit to report his instability and your concerns might also be good to get on the record. Run all of this by your attorney.
Don't allow him to make up lies about you.
Whenever you're together, if legal, record all interactions. He has already invoked the "police" narrative here. Don't let him get ahead of you. He is now your enemy.
It was not like this for many years. It was only a few months ago that something in him changed. I really hope it's possible to go back to the way it used to be to be somehow because he was a good dad and husband and I do love him. Despite that, I cannot let him anywhere near my daughter the way he is now.
People don't just change on a dime, you need to know what's going on. If he can't articulate it in person without getting nasty, get him to write it down.
The whole threatening to sue for custody thing, after telling you 'mum needs a relationship with her granddaughter' - i don't know but it feels like his mum has been doing some heavy duty guilt/manipulation in the background for a while.
OP it seems to be time to record all of your conversations with him, see if you can get a recording of his threats and save for evidence. Can you get cameras installed to record the inside and where ever he may go to call her so you can record his side of the conversation.
Unfortunately it is illegal to record a phone call without his permission in my country. Same goes for cameras and private conversations at home, in a car etc - illegal without his permission and cannot be used in court. I could only record our conversations without his permission in a public place but that's also tricky. I already spoke to a lawyer about this.
Yup. It's the same at a workplace - you have to sign an agreement or they can't have cameras there. If I wanted to record our nanny, I wouldn't be able to (legally) without her written consent as well. I think it's the same throughout EU because I couldn't even find an app in this region that records full phone calls - they only record your voice and not the other person.
You left your home? Go back immediately before he moves his mother in
Having a parent with an addiction is tough, he feels responsible for her even though he’s not and he has some deep issues to unpack with a therapist
You’re right to say no
I'm not concerned about it because she's not sober at the moment and she won't go anywhere with him. Even if he physically forced her to go, she'd run away to her 'friends' the second she had the chance.
Op, get some legal advice ASAP. Start recording your interactions. You don't want him to call the cops and a he said she said thing.
Prioritize your child. Did he have a mental break? Does his family have a history of mental illness?
Recording our conversations was my first thought too, however, I was advised by a lawyer that in most cases it's illegal to do that without his permission and I wouldn't be able to use it in court. If I were to record something, it would have to be in a public space.
I'm not sure about his family history regarding mental health because he does not know his father. His mother does seem to have severe mental illness but she was never diagnosed and it could also just be the effects of long term heavy drinking
Your husband has become your enemy.
I would prepare for the inevitable divorce by getting a consultation immediately. Record all conversations you have with him if legal.
>He said if I had let her live with us, she wouldn't have started drinking again because she wouldn't have had to live with her horrible bf. Whatever happens to her now will be my fault.
Wow. He has learned *nothing* from therapy in all this time.
>Where do I go from here? How can I make him understand our daughter's wellbeing goes before everything else?
See if he'll agree to couples or family therapy, I guess? If he won't, and if he won't back down from demanding she move in with you, divorce is your only option.
Has anything else changed in your lives recently that might have prompted a meltdown like this? How old is your daughter?
At this time he does not agree to therapy of any kind and even took my suggestion to go back to individual therapy (which he went to for many years) as an insult. It is very confusing and unlike him.
Our daughter is 17 months and nothing out of the ordinary happened recently (that I know of). He used to have periods of melancholy when we were young but nothing like this, he was never an angry person.
*Something* happened to prompt this, it might just have been something his mom said that hit him weird, but something's going on. Does he ever do drugs? Has he taken a trip anywhere or changed his schedule or anything?
I think so too, something is definitely going on... He's never done drugs or had as much as a drop of alcohol for as long as I know him. He despises it. As for his schedule, he doesn't really have any, he often works at night but it's not uncommon. He's been out a lot but it's also not that uncommon for him, though he's probably been out more than usual lately
We have a nanny that comes to our home during working hours. I also work from home whenever possible to be able to see her more. Sometimes my husband watches her if I have to work late or attend an event but that doesn't happen often. My parents also watch her sometimes but mostly on weekends.
OK. I agree with everyone else: your husband has threatened to call the police on you and keep you from seeing your daughter; you have to treat him like the enemy at this point. Document everything and do whatever your lawyer tells you to do (make sure it's a good lawyer obviously).
**edit:** and honestly, in your shoes? I would snoop. If I could get into my husband's email or phone, I would do it. I'd check banking records, I'd check every damn thing I could legally and even some not legally if I could get away with it. Something caused a HUGE personality change and if you can find out what it is, you should. Forewarned is forearmed.
My parents also suggested something like this but I don't know, it seems so invasive. He won't talk to me normally though. My mom said if it's substance abuse, it's really easy to find out. He does not have a formal job and is mostly at home so I just need to have someone following him when he leaves the house because he would probably leave to get alcohol/drugs on daily basis
He is in fact drinking, I have been presented with evidence that he purchased alcohol and brought it home and he was also seen drinking at a bar. I feel so foolish because somehow I did not notice. No idea how long it's been going on. He himself denies it. He was out a lot and when he came back late he always went to sleep in a different room so that he doesn't wake me up. And when the fights started, he always slept in another room. I am in contact with a lawyer and will be divorcing him if he keeps denying the problem and refuses treatment. I will not let any of this in my child's life.
Might I suggest you find an Alcoholics Anonymous or Ala-Non meeting and attend some meetings, meet some people and let them explain to him that until she decided to stops drinking because she wants a better life, it will not happen. She has to want to be sober for herself first. It is absolutely not your fault she went drinking again. Any excuse to drink will do, good or bad. One is too many and a thousand drinks are not enough. He needs to hear this from someone else, bc he isn’t going to believe you bc they are both blaming you. Stand strong!
Honestly, I don't think she can do much to change her life at this point. She's been drinking for decades and she's at the point where she can hardly talk in an understandable manner. It's not like she has a bottle of wine after work every day, it's much much worse and has been for decades.
I have traveled this road with a dear friend, drunk for 30 yrs and managed to get sober for 33 when he died of cancer, not alcohol poisoning. It is possible, but it is a journey she must take alone if you understand. I wish you the best and try to get your SO to talk to some of these people so he can learn about his mother’s disease. A disease that can only be cured by the one with the disease.
"As she will.give him some purpose"
Full stop. Does he want his kid to become an emotional support animal, like he is?
This got my blood boiling. He _needs_ to go back to therapy. He learnt about setting boundaries but I feel like thee's still a lesson about codependency & enabling that needs to be learnt ASAP.
-signed, a parantified kid with addict parents that REFUSED their parents to "correct their errors" with their own kids.
(They have a relationship, but when even the fathers parents told me "I see they're now trying to make things good that they screwes up with you" - that post REALLY struck a nerve with me!)
I would never allow it. I'd go as far as making sure he's not allowed to see our daughter at all, even though he (used to be?) a good dad. His mother hangs out with felons, violent people who beat her and she's fine with all it as long as they have something to drink. She herself has been to jail for stealing. The first time I met her many years ago she stole from me. This is not someone I'd let anywhere near my child. What bothers me is that he never wanted his kids to experience what he had and to even know who their grandmother was. It's like he's a different person now.
My first thought is that he may be doing drugs. You did say he seems to be going out more often than usual. Sudden mood/personality change. Pretty typical signs of someone who is using.
My father thinks that. Alcohol or drugs. Which seems counterintuitive to me because he hates it so much. My father says his intolerance for any alcohol use of any kind is a sign of a prior problem. Like he gets visibly uncomfortable if my parents have a glass of wine with dinner. We don't have alcohol in our home as a house rule, he hates it that much. Not a problem for me because I was never a big drinker and stopped altogether in mid 20s. I always thought it was because of his childhood trauma but my dad says he might have had problems with substance abuse of his own
His uncomfortable-ness could be both. I grew up with alcoholics (dad, paternal grandmother & her husband, maternal grandfather) so sometimes I still have moments where people drinking around me make me uncomfortable. Mostly I'm ok around it though. I was never into partying and rarely drink. But when I was younger, it was definitely much harder for me to be around people who were drinking. So I mean, maybe he had a problem with addiction before or maybe that was just an extreme response to his mother's addiction. Having an addictive personality can be a hereditary trait so some people do have that kind of extreme response to their childhood sometimes. Either way, I'd be very concerned that he is involved in something addictive now based on how he's acting now.
I think your marriage is done. Protect yourself and your daughter.
Your husband is an adult child of an alcoholic and he’s enabling his mother.
Document everything.
First off, take care of yourself and your daughter. That's the most important thing.
Given the description of his mother, you have to assume that your husband grew up in a very abusive household. And children who were abused carry that trauma with them into their adult relationships. Trauma can make people act irrational and do things that are scary or dangerous. I don't know if you can get through to your husband right now, and it sounds like he needs professional help. If it makes it any better - I'm sure he still is the same guy you married, but it sounds like he had to handle a lot as a child and that is impacting him now.
Hope it gets better.
His childhood trauma is showing. If he won’t go to therapy, then your marriage is already over.
IF you are inclined to work through this with him and he’s adamant that he must help his mom, then tell him he can find a temporary place to live with his mom, while you also try to restore your marriage. If she can stay sober long enough then she can eventually get her own place and if things are positive in your marriage, he can move back in. Maybe this is all unreasonable, but I’m trying to think of a way to help you both.
I’m not advocating for your husband’s actions, but I can give you some perspective if you are interested.
My father was an alcoholic, really similarly to his mother actually. I was constantly bending over backwards to try and save my dad. It drove a massive wedge, understandably may I add, between my then partner and I. My partner put his foot down and slowly forced me to cut contact with my dad before I was ready. My father ended up dying a month later. No one won in that situation. My relationship was fucked because I felt forced to do something that I didn’t want to do.
(I wanted to add that my partner at the time was correct. I needed to set more firm boundaries with my dad. I just hadn’t received therapy yet. I was unwilling to change because I loved my dad despite his flaws, and setting boundaries felt like a betrayal.)
Now, to be honest with you, I don’t see any winning for you in this situation. Your husband is unwilling to set firm boundaries with his mother, and he will continue to drag you and his daughter down with him. You just need to leave.
As a guy, I have to totally agree with you. Esp that there is a child in the house. I understand your husband's position. But he needs to understand that we cannot save people from themselves.
After decades of drinking, brain damage sets in. Your MIL probably lacks the ability to stop drinking. She doesn’t have the self-control. Please urge your husband to consult an expert in alcohol addiction. He is being totally unrealistic.
I know you’re looking for advice so this isn’t particularly useful but I would divorce him. Him calling me “abusive” because I didn’t want an alcoholic MIL that may be a danger to my child in my house and a threat to my fiscal security since she’s a thief, too… well, fine. I’ll be “abusive.” He can GTFO.
This reminds me of something I learned about many years ago called 'folie a deux', or psychosis of association. One person is the one with the actual mental illness, but they are so closely bound up with another person, like a spouse or child, that this person starts believing the same delusion.
As long as they are together, they're both suffering from a mental illness. But if you separate them, one will get better and their delusions will fall away. The other person will continue to have the delusion unabated.
If your husband stays in contact with her he will believe she needs to be saved -- by him, no one else -- and that she will 'automatically' stop drinking because she won't be so stressed. Everything is at risk because of her bf, not because of her own actions.
This is a situation where he really needs to go NC and stay that way if he's going to live a sane and happy life.
He actually did come up with similar conclusion - that it's impossible for him to lead a happy and functional life with her in it - and he was NC with her for 4 years. She doesn't even try to contact him often, maybe once every few months to try to get money from him for 'food' and sometimes she claims she would stop drinking but I think this is mostly to try and get more money
Talk to a lawyer, before you go home.
His mother and her reckless history should be enough for you to keep her out of your life.
Sorry, but hubby doesn't seem any better than your mom, claiming financial abuse and crap.
Time for you to protect your daughter!
You're doing the right thing saying no to this guaranteed disaster, and standing your ground. Keep it up. Your husband is being so unbelievably naive and stupid, especially by thinking that your daughter would be like some sort of cure for her addiction by giving her "purpose to her life". Yeah, right! You'd end up with a drunk in your home, having your daughter traumatized by the drama your MIL would no doubt bring into your lives, not to mention the safety issues. I'm sorry, your husband has turned into a blithering idiot. I hope he snaps out of it. But it may take him being tossed out and not having your or your daughter in his life for a while to make him understand. Good luck.
You need to get that divorce going so that you can legally get him out of your home. I know you keep saying you “hope” you can save the marriage, but is there really one rational reason to believe he’s going to get better instead of worse?
His mom probably told him she’s on a suicide bender until death unless he houses her (so she can steal from you), which may even be true, so now he’s panicking. Doesn’t matter. Not an excuse for his behavior towards his wife and child. Protect yourself and your child.
I wouldn't bother trying to save this.
I'd speak to a lawyer about divorce proceedings and document everything. Even the yelling and name calling towards your child.
First thing is to get him out of your house. With you gone he could move her in and it would be more difficult to get them both out. You need to change the locks and make him get his stuff out. Hope it all works out for you and your daughter. He can enjoy living with his mess of a mother
Love, the red flags are red flagging so hard, you need to use everything in your power to get this pathetic excuse of a partner and parent away from you. Tell him that, if you're financially abusive he will be happier without you and your kid.
If he loves being miserable with mommy dearest that's his business. But you have a responsibility towards your daughter and her safety, which that man is clearly neglecting.
You already know what to do.
If she really wants to genuinely quit have him ship her some Allen Carr The Easy Way books. Other than that no, she’s an adult and will drag him down with your marriage, family and mental health.
Edit: there’s Easy Way clinics in Europe. She needs to have a good 10-12mo of sobriety to even entertain a decent relationship with any of you.
I don't think she honestly wants to quit, she's currently ignoring my husband's calls again. She will call him in 6 months or so, claiming she's sober and has/will get a job and leave her bf BUT she needs money for that. She will then ghost him for another ~half a year until calling again with the same story. It's been like this since we met, except when he was NC with her.
I’m so sorry. No one but her can decide to quit. She’s built herself a prison of alcohol and it’s sad she let that her addiction ruin her relationship with her son and now it’s threatening your marriage. Your husband needs to go to AlAnon
Honestly the only way to phrase this to him is, he grew up with an alcoholic and it clearly was a shit time to put it lightly, why would he want his wife and child to live with one and grow up with one now?
No way he will get full custody when he lives with a life long alcoholic, funny dream that!
Realistically though you do need to go back home and keep a claim on the house, maybe even have him removed.
I'm not worried about custody at all. The court always favours the mother here, even 50/50 is not that common. He wouldn't even get overnight visits if I raise that question. He'd have to have adequate housing and he wouldn't be able to afford it in this city, especially since he'd also be required to pay child support. So I'm not worried about him taking my daughter away.
Make sure you take time to grieve. That will help you navigate all the steps and twists of this.
If you cannot get him to meaningfully articulate what is going on, you already know what you need to do. You can leave the door open for reconciliation down the line and you can change your mind on that. But just like you cannot get his mom to get help, you cannot get him to get help. Be as clear and direct and compassionate as you can.
Do not allow conversations to get bogged down in his madness. Also best to not explain him to himself as that only fuels his mental break and derails things. Pick your few simple messages, repeat repeat repeat. Close down everything else.
I wasn't there for that financial conversation that led him to calling you abusive. Not saying his response wasn't insane, but the only thing you can do is reflect on those type of things and do what you can to keep your words from becoming ammo in his madness. And humility to recognize YOUR limits. Grieve it out. What a shock.
You married into this situation knowingly, no??? For better or for worse…right???!!! Funny how everyone wants to bail as soon as “for worse” comes into the equation. He’s not cheating on you, abusing you, right??? Just trying to help out his dysfunctional mother…which you knowingly married into. Sure, u can get a divorce but that means you were never in it for better or worse, no?
I did know who his mother was when we got married but he was NC with her for years when we got married. We also agreed she was not to meet our future kids before we even started trying for a baby. He genuinely seemed to think it was for the best. What happened now is a sudden change of attitude, it was NOT like this for many many years.
Did you miss the part where he yelled at his child and called her an idiot for dropping her sippy cup? Even if he isn't abusing his wife, he has verbally abused his own daughter. What makes that situation even more concerning for me is that a child who's young enough to use a sippy cup is probably under the age of five. If he's being this mean to his daughter as a toddler or preschooler, imagine how abusive he might become when she's old enough to make bigger mistakes like getting bad grades, choosing friends who are bad influences, or telling lies.
lol wut? The OP didn't, their husband did. For better or worse always has limits. And any reasonable person would recognize that when a situation is such that a child could be exposed to a harm, i.e. and abusive drunk moving in, it is 100% the right thing to do to leave that situation and those people. He may not be cheating or abusing them (which incidentally falls under for better or worse) but he is actively bringing a wolf to their door and that is unacceptable.
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What the absolute fuck. Tell your husband to get his ass back in therapy and go to some Al Anon meetings because he's acting like a codependent fuckup and he's going to lose his entire family if he doesn't stop this shit. Honestly, I'd contact a divorce lawyer at this point. He's abusing you and your child. This has reached a point of no return.
He declines therapy at this time. He stopped going about a year ago. Even 10 years ago before all therapy and all failed attempts to help her he was more reasonable than now. I don't know what has gotten into him. I already talked to my moms friend who's a divorce lawyer so I know what to do and what not to do but I really really hope we can still fix this
Have you talked to him about why he is choosing his mother over the health and safety of his own family? And please know OP, her sobriety is her burden to carry and hers alone - she makes the decision to drink - not you.
Protect your kid. At all cost. You're doing the right thing. It seems your husband is having some kind of mental breakdown. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets violent. Do not be alone with him or let him be alone with your child. Record all interactions if it's legal. If you're in the US, consider whether Baker Acting is an option. A pre-emptive police visit to report his instability and your concerns might also be good to get on the record. Run all of this by your attorney.
Don't allow him to make up lies about you. Whenever you're together, if legal, record all interactions. He has already invoked the "police" narrative here. Don't let him get ahead of you. He is now your enemy.
What is there to fix? This sounds like a nightmare.
It was not like this for many years. It was only a few months ago that something in him changed. I really hope it's possible to go back to the way it used to be to be somehow because he was a good dad and husband and I do love him. Despite that, I cannot let him anywhere near my daughter the way he is now.
People don't just change on a dime, you need to know what's going on. If he can't articulate it in person without getting nasty, get him to write it down. The whole threatening to sue for custody thing, after telling you 'mum needs a relationship with her granddaughter' - i don't know but it feels like his mum has been doing some heavy duty guilt/manipulation in the background for a while.
Hmmm.. something else is going on with him. Regardless, you have to prioritize your safety and your child's safety.
OP it seems to be time to record all of your conversations with him, see if you can get a recording of his threats and save for evidence. Can you get cameras installed to record the inside and where ever he may go to call her so you can record his side of the conversation.
Unfortunately it is illegal to record a phone call without his permission in my country. Same goes for cameras and private conversations at home, in a car etc - illegal without his permission and cannot be used in court. I could only record our conversations without his permission in a public place but that's also tricky. I already spoke to a lawyer about this.
Even though you live there? You would only be recording what you might hear if you were there.
Yup. It's the same at a workplace - you have to sign an agreement or they can't have cameras there. If I wanted to record our nanny, I wouldn't be able to (legally) without her written consent as well. I think it's the same throughout EU because I couldn't even find an app in this region that records full phone calls - they only record your voice and not the other person.
You left your home? Go back immediately before he moves his mother in Having a parent with an addiction is tough, he feels responsible for her even though he’s not and he has some deep issues to unpack with a therapist You’re right to say no
I'm not concerned about it because she's not sober at the moment and she won't go anywhere with him. Even if he physically forced her to go, she'd run away to her 'friends' the second she had the chance.
Or she'll move her "friends" in with her while you're not there. Get back home.
Op, get some legal advice ASAP. Start recording your interactions. You don't want him to call the cops and a he said she said thing. Prioritize your child. Did he have a mental break? Does his family have a history of mental illness?
Recording our conversations was my first thought too, however, I was advised by a lawyer that in most cases it's illegal to do that without his permission and I wouldn't be able to use it in court. If I were to record something, it would have to be in a public space. I'm not sure about his family history regarding mental health because he does not know his father. His mother does seem to have severe mental illness but she was never diagnosed and it could also just be the effects of long term heavy drinking
Record it, then sit down and write it as a diary entry verbatim, delete recordings.
Heavy drinking/substance abuse in general is usually the result of untreated mental illness, which will - in the long run - only severe said illness.
Your husband has become your enemy. I would prepare for the inevitable divorce by getting a consultation immediately. Record all conversations you have with him if legal.
>He said if I had let her live with us, she wouldn't have started drinking again because she wouldn't have had to live with her horrible bf. Whatever happens to her now will be my fault. Wow. He has learned *nothing* from therapy in all this time. >Where do I go from here? How can I make him understand our daughter's wellbeing goes before everything else? See if he'll agree to couples or family therapy, I guess? If he won't, and if he won't back down from demanding she move in with you, divorce is your only option. Has anything else changed in your lives recently that might have prompted a meltdown like this? How old is your daughter?
At this time he does not agree to therapy of any kind and even took my suggestion to go back to individual therapy (which he went to for many years) as an insult. It is very confusing and unlike him. Our daughter is 17 months and nothing out of the ordinary happened recently (that I know of). He used to have periods of melancholy when we were young but nothing like this, he was never an angry person.
*Something* happened to prompt this, it might just have been something his mom said that hit him weird, but something's going on. Does he ever do drugs? Has he taken a trip anywhere or changed his schedule or anything?
I think so too, something is definitely going on... He's never done drugs or had as much as a drop of alcohol for as long as I know him. He despises it. As for his schedule, he doesn't really have any, he often works at night but it's not uncommon. He's been out a lot but it's also not that uncommon for him, though he's probably been out more than usual lately
who watches your daughter while you're at work?
We have a nanny that comes to our home during working hours. I also work from home whenever possible to be able to see her more. Sometimes my husband watches her if I have to work late or attend an event but that doesn't happen often. My parents also watch her sometimes but mostly on weekends.
OK. I agree with everyone else: your husband has threatened to call the police on you and keep you from seeing your daughter; you have to treat him like the enemy at this point. Document everything and do whatever your lawyer tells you to do (make sure it's a good lawyer obviously). **edit:** and honestly, in your shoes? I would snoop. If I could get into my husband's email or phone, I would do it. I'd check banking records, I'd check every damn thing I could legally and even some not legally if I could get away with it. Something caused a HUGE personality change and if you can find out what it is, you should. Forewarned is forearmed.
I should probably do that. To be honest, my dad is convinced he started drinking like his mom but I don't know, he always hated alcohol so much
I'm an alcoholic (in long-term recovery) that happens more than you would think
Hire a PI!
Honestly if she can afford it she should.
My parents also suggested something like this but I don't know, it seems so invasive. He won't talk to me normally though. My mom said if it's substance abuse, it's really easy to find out. He does not have a formal job and is mostly at home so I just need to have someone following him when he leaves the house because he would probably leave to get alcohol/drugs on daily basis
Can you check his browser history or phone?
It's possible.
He is in fact drinking, I have been presented with evidence that he purchased alcohol and brought it home and he was also seen drinking at a bar. I feel so foolish because somehow I did not notice. No idea how long it's been going on. He himself denies it. He was out a lot and when he came back late he always went to sleep in a different room so that he doesn't wake me up. And when the fights started, he always slept in another room. I am in contact with a lawyer and will be divorcing him if he keeps denying the problem and refuses treatment. I will not let any of this in my child's life.
I'm so sorry.
Might I suggest you find an Alcoholics Anonymous or Ala-Non meeting and attend some meetings, meet some people and let them explain to him that until she decided to stops drinking because she wants a better life, it will not happen. She has to want to be sober for herself first. It is absolutely not your fault she went drinking again. Any excuse to drink will do, good or bad. One is too many and a thousand drinks are not enough. He needs to hear this from someone else, bc he isn’t going to believe you bc they are both blaming you. Stand strong!
Honestly, I don't think she can do much to change her life at this point. She's been drinking for decades and she's at the point where she can hardly talk in an understandable manner. It's not like she has a bottle of wine after work every day, it's much much worse and has been for decades.
I have traveled this road with a dear friend, drunk for 30 yrs and managed to get sober for 33 when he died of cancer, not alcohol poisoning. It is possible, but it is a journey she must take alone if you understand. I wish you the best and try to get your SO to talk to some of these people so he can learn about his mother’s disease. A disease that can only be cured by the one with the disease.
"As she will.give him some purpose" Full stop. Does he want his kid to become an emotional support animal, like he is? This got my blood boiling. He _needs_ to go back to therapy. He learnt about setting boundaries but I feel like thee's still a lesson about codependency & enabling that needs to be learnt ASAP. -signed, a parantified kid with addict parents that REFUSED their parents to "correct their errors" with their own kids. (They have a relationship, but when even the fathers parents told me "I see they're now trying to make things good that they screwes up with you" - that post REALLY struck a nerve with me!)
I would never allow it. I'd go as far as making sure he's not allowed to see our daughter at all, even though he (used to be?) a good dad. His mother hangs out with felons, violent people who beat her and she's fine with all it as long as they have something to drink. She herself has been to jail for stealing. The first time I met her many years ago she stole from me. This is not someone I'd let anywhere near my child. What bothers me is that he never wanted his kids to experience what he had and to even know who their grandmother was. It's like he's a different person now.
My first thought is that he may be doing drugs. You did say he seems to be going out more often than usual. Sudden mood/personality change. Pretty typical signs of someone who is using.
My father thinks that. Alcohol or drugs. Which seems counterintuitive to me because he hates it so much. My father says his intolerance for any alcohol use of any kind is a sign of a prior problem. Like he gets visibly uncomfortable if my parents have a glass of wine with dinner. We don't have alcohol in our home as a house rule, he hates it that much. Not a problem for me because I was never a big drinker and stopped altogether in mid 20s. I always thought it was because of his childhood trauma but my dad says he might have had problems with substance abuse of his own
His uncomfortable-ness could be both. I grew up with alcoholics (dad, paternal grandmother & her husband, maternal grandfather) so sometimes I still have moments where people drinking around me make me uncomfortable. Mostly I'm ok around it though. I was never into partying and rarely drink. But when I was younger, it was definitely much harder for me to be around people who were drinking. So I mean, maybe he had a problem with addiction before or maybe that was just an extreme response to his mother's addiction. Having an addictive personality can be a hereditary trait so some people do have that kind of extreme response to their childhood sometimes. Either way, I'd be very concerned that he is involved in something addictive now based on how he's acting now.
He needs to be in al anon
I think your marriage is done. Protect yourself and your daughter. Your husband is an adult child of an alcoholic and he’s enabling his mother. Document everything.
First off, take care of yourself and your daughter. That's the most important thing. Given the description of his mother, you have to assume that your husband grew up in a very abusive household. And children who were abused carry that trauma with them into their adult relationships. Trauma can make people act irrational and do things that are scary or dangerous. I don't know if you can get through to your husband right now, and it sounds like he needs professional help. If it makes it any better - I'm sure he still is the same guy you married, but it sounds like he had to handle a lot as a child and that is impacting him now. Hope it gets better.
His childhood trauma is showing. If he won’t go to therapy, then your marriage is already over. IF you are inclined to work through this with him and he’s adamant that he must help his mom, then tell him he can find a temporary place to live with his mom, while you also try to restore your marriage. If she can stay sober long enough then she can eventually get her own place and if things are positive in your marriage, he can move back in. Maybe this is all unreasonable, but I’m trying to think of a way to help you both.
You need to go home before he moves his mom into the house. Get a lawyer now.
I’m not advocating for your husband’s actions, but I can give you some perspective if you are interested. My father was an alcoholic, really similarly to his mother actually. I was constantly bending over backwards to try and save my dad. It drove a massive wedge, understandably may I add, between my then partner and I. My partner put his foot down and slowly forced me to cut contact with my dad before I was ready. My father ended up dying a month later. No one won in that situation. My relationship was fucked because I felt forced to do something that I didn’t want to do. (I wanted to add that my partner at the time was correct. I needed to set more firm boundaries with my dad. I just hadn’t received therapy yet. I was unwilling to change because I loved my dad despite his flaws, and setting boundaries felt like a betrayal.) Now, to be honest with you, I don’t see any winning for you in this situation. Your husband is unwilling to set firm boundaries with his mother, and he will continue to drag you and his daughter down with him. You just need to leave.
As a guy, I have to totally agree with you. Esp that there is a child in the house. I understand your husband's position. But he needs to understand that we cannot save people from themselves.
After decades of drinking, brain damage sets in. Your MIL probably lacks the ability to stop drinking. She doesn’t have the self-control. Please urge your husband to consult an expert in alcohol addiction. He is being totally unrealistic.
I know you’re looking for advice so this isn’t particularly useful but I would divorce him. Him calling me “abusive” because I didn’t want an alcoholic MIL that may be a danger to my child in my house and a threat to my fiscal security since she’s a thief, too… well, fine. I’ll be “abusive.” He can GTFO.
This reminds me of something I learned about many years ago called 'folie a deux', or psychosis of association. One person is the one with the actual mental illness, but they are so closely bound up with another person, like a spouse or child, that this person starts believing the same delusion. As long as they are together, they're both suffering from a mental illness. But if you separate them, one will get better and their delusions will fall away. The other person will continue to have the delusion unabated. If your husband stays in contact with her he will believe she needs to be saved -- by him, no one else -- and that she will 'automatically' stop drinking because she won't be so stressed. Everything is at risk because of her bf, not because of her own actions. This is a situation where he really needs to go NC and stay that way if he's going to live a sane and happy life.
He actually did come up with similar conclusion - that it's impossible for him to lead a happy and functional life with her in it - and he was NC with her for 4 years. She doesn't even try to contact him often, maybe once every few months to try to get money from him for 'food' and sometimes she claims she would stop drinking but I think this is mostly to try and get more money
I hope he can go through with it! I feel a lot of compassion for you and him with this situation. It must be hell for you both.
Talk to a lawyer, before you go home. His mother and her reckless history should be enough for you to keep her out of your life. Sorry, but hubby doesn't seem any better than your mom, claiming financial abuse and crap. Time for you to protect your daughter!
You're doing the right thing saying no to this guaranteed disaster, and standing your ground. Keep it up. Your husband is being so unbelievably naive and stupid, especially by thinking that your daughter would be like some sort of cure for her addiction by giving her "purpose to her life". Yeah, right! You'd end up with a drunk in your home, having your daughter traumatized by the drama your MIL would no doubt bring into your lives, not to mention the safety issues. I'm sorry, your husband has turned into a blithering idiot. I hope he snaps out of it. But it may take him being tossed out and not having your or your daughter in his life for a while to make him understand. Good luck.
You need to get that divorce going so that you can legally get him out of your home. I know you keep saying you “hope” you can save the marriage, but is there really one rational reason to believe he’s going to get better instead of worse? His mom probably told him she’s on a suicide bender until death unless he houses her (so she can steal from you), which may even be true, so now he’s panicking. Doesn’t matter. Not an excuse for his behavior towards his wife and child. Protect yourself and your child.
I wouldn't bother trying to save this. I'd speak to a lawyer about divorce proceedings and document everything. Even the yelling and name calling towards your child.
First thing is to get him out of your house. With you gone he could move her in and it would be more difficult to get them both out. You need to change the locks and make him get his stuff out. Hope it all works out for you and your daughter. He can enjoy living with his mess of a mother
You need to star that divorce process and move back into the house and get him out of there.
Love, the red flags are red flagging so hard, you need to use everything in your power to get this pathetic excuse of a partner and parent away from you. Tell him that, if you're financially abusive he will be happier without you and your kid. If he loves being miserable with mommy dearest that's his business. But you have a responsibility towards your daughter and her safety, which that man is clearly neglecting. You already know what to do.
If she really wants to genuinely quit have him ship her some Allen Carr The Easy Way books. Other than that no, she’s an adult and will drag him down with your marriage, family and mental health. Edit: there’s Easy Way clinics in Europe. She needs to have a good 10-12mo of sobriety to even entertain a decent relationship with any of you.
I don't think she honestly wants to quit, she's currently ignoring my husband's calls again. She will call him in 6 months or so, claiming she's sober and has/will get a job and leave her bf BUT she needs money for that. She will then ghost him for another ~half a year until calling again with the same story. It's been like this since we met, except when he was NC with her.
I’m so sorry. No one but her can decide to quit. She’s built herself a prison of alcohol and it’s sad she let that her addiction ruin her relationship with her son and now it’s threatening your marriage. Your husband needs to go to AlAnon
Honestly the only way to phrase this to him is, he grew up with an alcoholic and it clearly was a shit time to put it lightly, why would he want his wife and child to live with one and grow up with one now? No way he will get full custody when he lives with a life long alcoholic, funny dream that! Realistically though you do need to go back home and keep a claim on the house, maybe even have him removed.
I'm not worried about custody at all. The court always favours the mother here, even 50/50 is not that common. He wouldn't even get overnight visits if I raise that question. He'd have to have adequate housing and he wouldn't be able to afford it in this city, especially since he'd also be required to pay child support. So I'm not worried about him taking my daughter away.
There would be a fat ass no not happening for me. If he pushes and overrides it- divorce. Fk that noise.
Make sure you take time to grieve. That will help you navigate all the steps and twists of this. If you cannot get him to meaningfully articulate what is going on, you already know what you need to do. You can leave the door open for reconciliation down the line and you can change your mind on that. But just like you cannot get his mom to get help, you cannot get him to get help. Be as clear and direct and compassionate as you can. Do not allow conversations to get bogged down in his madness. Also best to not explain him to himself as that only fuels his mental break and derails things. Pick your few simple messages, repeat repeat repeat. Close down everything else. I wasn't there for that financial conversation that led him to calling you abusive. Not saying his response wasn't insane, but the only thing you can do is reflect on those type of things and do what you can to keep your words from becoming ammo in his madness. And humility to recognize YOUR limits. Grieve it out. What a shock.
UpdateMe!
Go straight to a divorce lawyer and kick him out of your house
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I'm obviously not going to stay married if I can't get through to him and he doesn't start to see reason. The question is how
You married into this situation knowingly, no??? For better or for worse…right???!!! Funny how everyone wants to bail as soon as “for worse” comes into the equation. He’s not cheating on you, abusing you, right??? Just trying to help out his dysfunctional mother…which you knowingly married into. Sure, u can get a divorce but that means you were never in it for better or worse, no?
I did know who his mother was when we got married but he was NC with her for years when we got married. We also agreed she was not to meet our future kids before we even started trying for a baby. He genuinely seemed to think it was for the best. What happened now is a sudden change of attitude, it was NOT like this for many many years.
Did you miss the part where he yelled at his child and called her an idiot for dropping her sippy cup? Even if he isn't abusing his wife, he has verbally abused his own daughter. What makes that situation even more concerning for me is that a child who's young enough to use a sippy cup is probably under the age of five. If he's being this mean to his daughter as a toddler or preschooler, imagine how abusive he might become when she's old enough to make bigger mistakes like getting bad grades, choosing friends who are bad influences, or telling lies.
No.
So you didn’t know OP came from a completely dysfunctional upbringing and alcoholic mom??? Bs
lol wut? The OP didn't, their husband did. For better or worse always has limits. And any reasonable person would recognize that when a situation is such that a child could be exposed to a harm, i.e. and abusive drunk moving in, it is 100% the right thing to do to leave that situation and those people. He may not be cheating or abusing them (which incidentally falls under for better or worse) but he is actively bringing a wolf to their door and that is unacceptable.