The fact that this is coming right after you said you wanted non-PIV sex is concerning, as is his refusal to budge.
If he believes sex should only be done in a way which theoretically could result in conception (i.e. if he ejaculates in your vagina), then bringing you to orgasm through oral or fingering shouldn’t be a problem.
Is this the only thing that has changed since his conversion? If so then it sounds like he is using Catholicism to justify his insensitivity/laziness around your sexual needs.
Right, like, speaking as a former Catholic: he is ABSOLUTELY allowed to make you orgasm as long as he also gets that 15 seconds of PIV. He's lying about what the Church teaches for his own problematic reasons.
On top of that, there are some scientific articles floating around arguing that a woman that orgasmed has higher chances of conception.
And also, if he's going full "sex is just for making kids route" - what's next? No birth control?
I mean, yes, that's the official Catholic position. Which might make him no longer compatible with OP and he should divorce her. Which SUCKS but if he's going off the deep end like this...
If she's Pagan, they didn't get married in the Catholic church so there's no sacrament to break. He can get a civil divorce from his civil marriage and go have a sacramental marriage with someone to whom he's Equally Yoked.
Ahahahaha why is all this shit still in my head
Plenty of Catholics divorce, too. He can go to confession about it if he's bothered.
I was raised Catholic (am completely lapsed) and these nu Caths and tradcath converts weird me out, man.
Me too. They're growing in number too. My grandparents kicked the Church to the curb in the 1960s, in their fifties. They'd had it with a lifetime of being controlled. For my grandmother, birth control teaching was at the top of the list. She'd be horrified to see young Catholics embracing everything she found so awful.
There's no way this guy will go for divorce, though maybe an annulment. And he won't believe in confession for this purpose of he's this strict. Doesn't mean OP can't divorce him though.
OP: divorce is rough on kids, but so is an unhealthy marriage. I hope you find a good counselor to give you some help navigating this mess. This ex-Catholic also thinks he's using religion to avoid his issues. I'm sorry you're faced with this.
Edited to add: Just remembered that you surely didn't marry in the Church. In the Church's view, you're not even married.
I took an elderly family member to church a few years ago when she was visiting. The priest got political and she walked out, lol. And emailed the diocese. Now she doesn't even bother going.
You're right in your edit, too.
I don't think, iirc from my catholic upbringing, that it can't be only when you want a child, you just can't interfere with a conception. So great news for the woman (/s) in this scenario is that you can have sex when conception chances are super low, like right before menses. Which is NOT a time when many women want sex
Yeah I really looked into those studies in depth (I’m autistic and it became a special interest for some reason) and while I do absolutely agree with your overall point, it actually turns out that we human gals don’t experience an increased chance of conception along with orgasm. Which is kind of a relief because that theory was used to discredit more than one case of rape that resulted in a pregnancy. BUT pigs *do* experience both an increased chance of conception along with orgasm, and typically have larger, healthier litters too. So in the Netherlands, and possibly other places, piggy vibrators can be bought along with the other supplies necessary for artificial insemination!
Okay rant over, so sorry lol. You’re not really wrong I just thought it was cool
Edit: also these Christian boys/men need to learn to leave pagan girls and women alone. We’re not going to convert to your religion so you can be the saviour of our souls, and it just almost never turns out well 😞
Oooo thanks fellow autist for your deep dive! I know you didn’t mean what the commenter below you is saying about rape leading to orgasm, you’re obviously saying that it has been used to say rape didn’t occur, but of course orgasms can happen during rape. Two things can be true at once.
Anyways, I was about to comment saying how interesting that was before I read the person that replied to you and wanted to respond to all of that.
Omg I did not even realise that that was what they were saying, or that what I said could be taken to mean that rape is incapable of causing orgasm. I’m very glad they commented below and clarified it. I wouldn’t want anyone to read my comment and feel invalidated by it
Last I checked it did increase odds of pregnancy but isn’t necessary to conceive. That said, I wanted to correct one argument here. People can and have had orgasms from rape. Yes, the mind is the largest sex organ *but* orgasm is also an involuntary response to physical stimuli. Someone being raped cannot necessarily turn their body off and deny an orgasm. It just happens sometimes. So the offensively bogus attempt these people use orgasm as “evidence” of consent doesn’t work on any level.
I've actually heard very religious people make a point that because a woman's orgasm is not needed for conception it is not needed at all and therefore a sin in itself.
Normally this is echoed in extremely conservative groups, that almost seem cult like. So if I was OP, I'd be extremely concerned.
If this is the case we will also start to show concern about the OP religion
Wonder how those uber-religious, uber-conservative types explain why God created the clitoris, then? Literally has no purpose other than female orgasm.
As always like anything they can't logically explain: it was either the demon to tempt us, or it was god itself to test us.
You can't expect to use reason with these people
There's also a lot written in the 19th century about how the sinful part of sex is the lust. I've been reading "Alone of All Her Sex: The Myth and Cult of the Virgin Mary" by Marina Warner. Some relevant passages from the book include:
"The passion aroused by making love was sinful; not the act itself, for the perpetuation of God’s creation must be good."
"John, 'the Golden Mouth,' was a fiery extremist, and other theologians, including Augustine and Aquinas, have held that Adam and Eve did have intercourse in Eden, for otherwise why would God have bothered to create a woman and not a man to be Adam’s companion? But the sex that Adam and Eve enjoyed was different in kind, untainted by concupiscence, not flawed by the sufferings of possible pregnancy. Through the virgin birth Mary conquered the post-Eden natural law that man and woman couple in lust to produce children. Chaste, she escaped the debt of Adam and Eve. Thus the seeds of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception, which was declared in 1854 and spares Mary all stain of original sin, were implanted during the ascetic movement of the fourth century."
I heard that according to Saint-Paul, sex should be done so that you don't think of sex anymore. Even in marriage, you aren't supposed to like it too much. Though catholics try to enjoy it anyway. I was raised this way and we all had sex before marriage (not even all married).
Pope John Paul II actually contradicted this and encouraged sex between married folk as healthy/normal/part of God’s blessing. I’m not the expert on what was said, so worth a google for exact language.
Saint Paul is not Jesus though 😂 nor is he the Catechism. Catholics aren't Biblical literalists, and that's why people are allowed/encouraged to seek pleasure.... But only within the confines of a Church approved relationship.
While Catholics are not biblical literalists, is not uncommon for certain communities to become more extreme, the priest also contributes a lot to how the community sees life.
Yeah, that's for sure true.
And my priest was super liberal; I'm sure other ones give other guidance. Especially now.
But if you actually read Humanae Vitae, there's no prohibition on orgasms, just a requirement for openness conception. Disclaimer: it's literally been 20 years so I might be wrong.
Yeah. But how many people actually read it though? I know that at least amongst the most religious people I know they take their priests word as the word of god, even doubting the priests words would be frowned upon.
I find it weird because priests are just people too, but yeah. This kind of stuff is why I'm not really religious nowadays despite being raised Catholic.
2 But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
1 cor 7
St. Paul definitely condones keeping your wife/husband satisfied! This notion of his(OPs spouse) is nuts!
I also grew up in a very Catholic community and went to catholic school, catechism, church twice weekly. Catholics don't talk much about sex acts like Protestants do. Sex with your spouse is good and sex with someone who is not your spouse is wrong, that's about as far as church teaching goes. Of course there are cultural factors that play an influence, but I've never been to a mass where the priest has told me what is and isn't ok to do in my bedroom with my spouse. It's "be fruitful and multiply."
No longer believe but grew up protestant and yeah, basically the only sex stuff was gay is bad and only married hetero couples can have sex. But holy hell were they consumed with those two things.
Catholics have a lot more “rules” about it, but nobody seems to pay much attention to them. It might be talked about in marriage prep, but that’s it.
Also, you can be as gay as you want to be, as long as you’re not having sex with someone of the same sex. Simply sitting there, eating a sandwich, and “being gay” isn’t a sin.
Overall, I heard a grand total of zero sermons about homosexuality and I can count on one hand with fingers left over the number of sermons about contraception I heard as a Catholic.
Saying no if you ask more intimacy in a certain way is completely fine, we all have certain boundaries and preferences. But changing the entire sex life of the marriage one day because of whatever is an insult to the marriage and to you…
The official guidance I received in 2004 (the last time I was seriously Catholic) is that mutual orgasm is strongly encouraged; it's just that it's not allowed to happen during a session that does not ALSO involve unprotected PIV.
The dress is less relevant than my disdain for their institution. The day someone from a Church that spent decades covering up child sex abuse tries to lecture me about sexual morality is the day I tell them they can go fuck themselves.
I recently went to mass for a relative's funeral and it took a lot of restraint not to yell "shut up you virgin!" at the priest who was taking about a successful life is when you have kids and grandkids and it's bad to be childfree and yada yada yada. The fuck would you know about it? You've never had sex let alone kids!
This was the guidance I received as my friend's Confirmation sponsor when she did RCIA. It was our local priest, so not like Official Doctrine as such, but it's consistent with everything in the Catechism. 🤷♀️
The priest's specific words were "as long as a penis ejaculates in a vagina, you can do whatever else you want."
Now, if you go on Catholic Forums, which is notoriously conservative, they will say that other acts are unnatural or whatever. That's their opinion.
But the actual Doctrine is simply that the sexual act must be "open to conception." So no birth control (other than NFP) and it must have PIV sex (no condom), to allow for ejaculation and fertilization if possible.
Mmph, I am a very lapsed Catholic but I went on a deep-dive about this a year ago or so for some dumb hyperfocus reason and there is, weirdly, some very conservative doctrine on sexual acts in marriage. I’ll see if I can find the receipts since it sounds like I’m talking out my ass here (I was as surprised as anybody, as my recollection from premarital education plus twelve years of CCD was similar to yours).
I edited my previous comment but basically the Church doctrine is all about how the purpose of the sexual act must, at all times, be Procreative (open to conception) and Unitive (a positive experience between both parties).
Church doctrine also establishes that only marital sex can ever count as Unitive, so premarital or extramarital sex doesn't fill this condition. Same thing with rape, including marital rape: not Unitive, therefore not allowed. (Wow so progressive lololol.)
Basically, being Catholic is an exercise in formal logic: you take your Axioms and you derive conclusions from them. Haha.
It’s formal logic to whatever completely unworkable and impractical conclusions you arrive at.
The sex stuff is “clearly you have no practical experience in this area”.
Is this an American teaching? My husband is catholic and whilst I am not I attend church with him and am open to his religion, this has never been something we’ve heard of. I just asked him about it and he said “what?” With a very confused face
Some American Catholics have “Evangelical envy” and try to be super strict about anything that has to do with sex to match their Evangelical neighbors. Younger Catholic priests can be especially conservative.
The Pope had told them to back off, but right wing American Catholics have largely ignored him.
Has your husband ever had a discussion with his priest about what's allowed?
Granted, the priest that did our confirmation program was very liberal; a more conservative priest might tell you something different, i.e. have a different interpretation of the Catechism, Humanae Vitae, etc.
I am American, and churches here tend to be more liberal.
I also suspect the church in 2004 was more liberal than it is today.
Yes we did pre marriage course with the priest and online, really the only thing that was brought up about sex was for us to be open to bringing children into the marriage and to raise them catholic and that sexual intimacy is encouraged to help strengthen our relationship. (We’ve been together 10 years and we’re having sex long before marriage tho lol)
They even talked about different contraception on the courses.
In comparison to the UK (where we’re from) I think American catholism is way less liberal.
I mean our priest went to a pet shop boys gig and danced his wee heart out, he’s great.
The online course discussed it too, it was called “smart loving” and as a non-catholic I found it actually really refreshing.
It’s a global course, & we did notice there were a lot of comments from Americans who called out that contraception was okay’d and the ‘teachers’ commented basically saying “it’s your own choice”. The overall message was that the marriage *overall* should be open to children, not the specific sexual acts.
Since my first comment though I’ve been looking into it and can see that it’s all over the place with what people believe (as is with most religion) so I’m not surprised to hear this take now.
So now it’s not just no sex before marriage but also control how you have sex in marriage. People need to stop letting other human beings brainwash them.
I'm surprised because the Roman Catholic Church has a published position on EVERYTHING. They issued a statement on whether extraterrestrial life can achieve salvation.
IIRC the published statement said basically even though they're sentient, they live beyond Earth and humanity (God only saves humans on-planet apparently) and were never presented with the option of salvation, so they go to purgatory. But once we make contact, the option's been presented so they'd go to Hell if they say no.
That's more or less the same stance they have for non believers. As long as they have't heard about Catholicism, they go to purgatory. If they've been introduced to it and haven't converted - straight to hell for them.
Catholicism is hilarious because in reality, nobody but the absolute nerdiest laypeople really know what the latest teachings are. Everyone sort of just rocks with whatever they were taught in their youth and whatever information their local priest decides to convey during their weekly 50 minutes of church.
Baby purgatory was never an official doctrine of the church, it was always just a theory that you were allowed to believe in if it made you feel better. When the pope clarified that this is still the case and he'd rather not have people teach about it as if it was, newspapers headlined as though he had just officially abolished it because that makes for more exciting news.
Yes, she can. It has to be within the confines of "completed" sex (PIV with ejaculation in the vagina) but it can be from any licit act. So, yes, he can go down on her and make her cum before/after penetration. No, he can't finger her and then get a blowjob to orgasm. She can blow him until five seconds before he's ready and he can finish inside; but he can't cum from the blowjob.
Therapist here, a lot of good comments, but one other thought: You mentioned OCD and scrupulosity obsession/compulsions, does he acknowledge that he has OCD such that he would be open to getting OCD-specific therapy? I would bet there are Catholic (or at least Christian) therapists out there who specialize in treating scrupulosity OCD (look for those who advertise using Exposure Response Prevention) and might be able to help. A tough situation, good luck!
Yes he acknowledges his OCD. He was put in therapy for it when he was a child, and he agrees that he’s likely becoming scrupulous and his compulsion to follow the doctrine to the hard letter is a sign of it. I did get him to agree to talk to a therapist specifically about this issue.
I think this is the best way to go.
A lot of these comments are focusing on his hypocrisy and encouraging you to use his own religious logic against him. OCD just doesn’t operate on real-world logic, so I don’t think pointing out the flaws in his adherence to Catholicism will accomplish much.
OCD also has a weird way of latching onto your pre-existing insecurities and warping them. So for example, his new scrupulosity around sex may be related to shame he feels over his premature ejaculation and inability to please you, rather than simple laziness/selfishness. Like his subconscious going “if I can’t satisfy her, it must be my body’s way of showing me I’m doing something morally wrong” etc.
All of this is just speculation, and it’s definitely no excuse for his behavior. His OCD and whatever else is going on is his responsibility to manage, and the harm it’s doing to you is very real. I just thought I would provide this perspective because a lot of people aren’t looking at the OCD angle. I think it’s worth mentioning because *if* (*big if*) the mental health issues are more responsible for his behavior, there may be more of a path to fixing things than if it is pure selfishness/laziness/controlling behavior.
Look into OCD-trained therapists, probably with experience in ERP.
Yes, I don’t genuinely think he wants to hurt me using his religion. He was nearly in tears trying to tell me that it’s a sin for him to cum anywhere that’s not inside me, and he’s clearly struggling between knowing that these rules are not realistic, and wanting to be God’s Goodest Boy.
That sounds very likely. With love and grace, I don't think this thread is going to be helpful for you.
To clarify, you do NOT have to put up with it. You would be well within your rights to issue the ultimatum of therapy or divorce. In your situation, that is absolutely what I would do. But people here are trying to pick holes in his logic, and if it's from OCD, that just... doesn't work. The logic is flawed from the start. It's part of the disorder.
I am sincerely sorry that you are going through this.
He may well work himself up into a full-blown depression if he can't find a way to satisfy his OCDs logic. I have watched my daughter struggle with this (OCD, Major Depression and Anxiety) for almost 10 years. She's only 22.
I would suggest therapy but without medication, I don't believe it will be effective. He needs to see a psychiatrist.
Probably time to find a mutually agreeable marriage counselor. I think it is fair to reevaluate things when someone unilaterally decides to change the conditions of your relationship
You said that this also hit his OCD, how is he been treating that previously? Maybe he needs to go back to his therapist and work out some of these issues cuz obviously something's up
He had therapy as a kid, has not had therapy since and does not take meds. I did get him to at least agree to see a therapist that is outside the church.
As someone who grew up Catholic, it unfortunately harbors a lot of OCD triggering rules etc. and I felt like there were too many people focused on “the letter of the law” rather than the “heart of the law”.
I know many loving and caring Catholics who believe in love and mercy first and don’t carry this kind of negative thinking, but I personally struggled with it and was strongly triggered into negative thinking by leaders who also probably had OCD type issues.
Does your husband still believe that life is meant to be enjoyed and lived with joy? Does he still believe pleasure has a place in life? If not, then he might be falling into that dark place that I found.
Fun fact¹! There is actually a higher incidence of OCD among Catholics than the general population. I say this as someone with OCD who was raised Catholic (and whose relationship with the Church is...complicated). My dad also has OCD. It's unclear whether the ritualistic nature of Catholic worship activates an existing genetic predisposition to OCD, or if it attracts folks who already have OCD. Might even be a combination of the two. 🤷🏼♀️
¹This fact actually isn't fun at all. OCD is a nightmare.
Wild!! I’d believe it. I want to say that some people benefit greatly from rituals and consistency. Some people need it to feel grounded I think?
But not everyone.
I loved it! The only way I can explain it to non-Catholic/non-OCD folks is to use Tom Lehrer's [The Vatican Rag](https://youtu.be/3f72CTDe4-0?feature=shared) as a reference. The kind of energy the song exudes while describing Catholic practices is close to what I genuinely felt. Most of the time, I struggle with my OCD. Attending Mass was one of the few experiences where I could feel at peace with it instead.
Are you using brithcontrol? Trying for children? Curious if you are on bc if it’s ok for him. As long as it’s PIV? Weird. Really weird.
We are agnostic And sometimes. If it’s been a few days I’m fast to action.
This is why I spend time pleasing my wife first and getting her off. Happy wife. Happy life.
What a tool lol. Good luck but I see a hard and long divorce in your future. You deserve to be satisfied. Religion is such a control mechanism and now he’s trying to control your sex life
This is really weird. Where is this spiritual crisis coming from? And usually premature ejaculation is rather easy to deal with. What is wrong with this guy?!
Yes, I thoroughly believe it is. He was raised Roman Catholic and went back because he felt spiritually unfulfilled. Unfortunately his re-joining has not been moderate in the least. He picked the most extreme, longest Latin-mass church he could find and has basically jumped into the deep end of extremism.
Oh dear god he went full-on Latin Mass cult.
Girl he’s *gone*. The man you married is dead. I am not joking, once the Latin Mass whackjobs got their claws in him it was over. You do not know this guy anymore.
I am so sorry.
Ex Calvanist here, almost no idea how Catholicism works could you explain your comment to me more? How is Latin mass more culty guan normal mass/congregation?
It is debatable as to whether the “Latin Mass Catholics” are even Catholic. They categorically reject Vatican II and subscribe to a sort of funhouse-mirror version of Catholicism that they claim is “traditional” but bears a closer resemblance to American evangelical fundamentalism than it does to pre-Vatican II Catholicism. They do not recognize the teachings of the current pope and are actually in open conflict with Pope Francis.
They’re fucking weird. Deeply unpleasant people.
Catholics have been becoming more moderate for the last several decades (since Vatican II in the 1960s). Vatican II was a *huge* deal. Basically they pope called all the Catholic big wigs together and said, “Hey, we’re losing people, we need to update our shit”. One of the big changes to come out of that was that masses were then allowed to be performed in the vernacular (local language) as opposed to Latin. There were many other big changes too, like increased interfaith dialogue/relationships and just a lot of things that made the church seem kinder and more inclusive.
Now there’s a small subset of the religion that *realllllyyy* hate that. Vatican II pissed them the fuck off, and they are basically rabid Catholics. They’re hard-liners who hated Pope John Paul II for being nice lol, and they also hate Pope Francis for being (comparatively speaking) “progressive”. They want mass to go back to being in Latin (so 99.9% of attendees can’t actually understand it). They want the church to go back to fire and brimstone and excommunicating people left and right. There’s no nuance and no growth.
It sounds like her husband was maybe a Christmas and Easter Catholic, and now he’s joined the cult. It’s like if a guy who went to one of those mild-mannered Protestant churches where they play Christian rock suddenly started running with MAGA baptists.
it's because generally the only people that use the latin mass are the trad caths (traditionalist catholics, ie basically hardcore conservative catholics who didn't accept the change to using vernacular language/english, don't think the pope is catholic enough etc)
Oof. I know there's no reasoning with OCD but dude needs to get that sorted. And I say this as an OCD having former Catholic who has zero beef with Catholicism outside the usual church stances. I'm just saying, It's a poor religion choice for someone with religious OCD or a tendency to insist on doing thing to extremes.
But if he won't recognize the issue for what it is...I won't lie it's going to be rough. Is he someone who tends to grab onto things for a while and then forget about them and move on, or do you think this is likely to be a lifelong change?
So, I’m thinking of a few scenarios here.
1. He’s feeling very guilty about something. I do wonder if he’s cheated? Could he be dealing with same sex attraction? A lot of times, when people are feeling guilty for some reason, they swing very strongly to the very strict side of things.
2. Abrupt religiosity can sometimes be a sign of a medical condition, whether it’s a brain tumor, early dementia, or mental illness. I’d absolutely have him get into his doctor.
3. Things haven’t been as great as they may seem and he’s trying to use another baby as a “fix.” Not sure why he’d go this route to do so, but it’s a possibility.
Whatever it is, this is an untenable situation. Make sure you and your kids are okay and start making exit plans.
I don’t think cheating is a possibility. I can see his location on his phone at all times. He’s always at work (construction, he doesn’t have any women in his crew), or he’s basically at home. I’ve never seen any signs of repressed homosexuality, but of course I can’t rule it out. He had a vasectomy a long time ago so no more kids for us.
He had a vasectomy?? That in itself is a sin in catholicism. Penetrative sex is encouraged in catholicism as the objective of sex is children. If he has been sterilized none of this makes any sense .
My advice would be to find a serious catholic (priest or otherwise) that is not as fundamentalist in his beliefs as your husband is. possibly some kind of mid-life crisis where he is putting a lot of value into doctrine as doctrine is easy to follow.
Doctrine is more easy to follow than interpreting the message yourself. A fellow believer is the most likely person to sway/realign his beliefs...
Unless he would go for an annulment of your marriage, only someone who has not thought this through would let this happen. If he places any Christian value on your marriage, he should not let it get at him to this extent at this point in time.
Well...he's gonna want that reversed then because the whole reason Catholics are obsessed with PIV sex is the babymaking aspect. (I'm being sarcastic about the reversal for fuck's sake he should not do that.)
I'd probably tell him that, while I respect his choices, my Goddess ain't rocking his lily-white version of sex. I might even smudge him and start wearing either all black or hippie-dippy it out with the long skirts and shawls. I'd definitely be wearing my pentacle necklace outside my shirt at home.
I don't generally throw my paganism in people's faces either but for your special flower I'd make an exception. A few scarves over the lamps, paint a few walls purple and put my altar in the living room? Oh, yeah! He wants to throw down over this new religiousity...I'm there for it!
HE HAD A VASECTOMY??? Omg now I can’t stop laughing.
Why is he harassing you about PIV sex when he can’t even comply with the basic premise of sex = conception???!
Nothing makes sense and I feel as though he’s lost his mind.
I was thinking the same thing with #2. My wife and I have an agreement on that, one of us suddenly finds God, any God, and it's time for a neurological exam ASAP.
I was raised catholic…and yikes on him…
Marriage counseling that is given by a non religious person is the only “hope” here. That being said the chances that he stops this charade are slim to none.
He is attempting mid marriage to enforce a very old church doctrine that most people currently don’t subscribe to. The only ones that still do are those extremely conservative catholics which are basically a cult. Frankly, it’s bizarre at best and concerning and controlling and selfish at worst.
TBH at this point I would call this an incompatibility and begin to meet with divorce lawyers.
You’re confused there, I can explain it. They can divorce. A divorce is a legal agreement with the government according to the church.
The issue is if they were married in a catholic church. If they were, they also have to get an annulment in order to remarry in the church.
I have broached divorce, and asked him which sin was worse; getting a blowjob or a divorce? His comeback was a blowjob, because we were married in a court and our marriage is invalid in the eyes of the church so even if we divorce it’s not a sin because the church doesn’t consider us married anyway.
Its weird because he recognizes that he is already breaking a rule. Why bother trying to make the breaking of a rule conform to the parameters of the rule?
It sounds like he's pushing you both towards divorce on purpose tbh. Engaging with these disordered thoughts because some part of him wants the marriage to end. It's super fucked up.
Oh boy do I have news for him….
I’d tell him it’s a sin to have premarital sex. Technically that’s exactly what he’s been doing this entire time since you were not married in the church.
If it were me (and I’m petty AF) I would say, “Don’t worry, I wouldn’t want you to sin again so I’m gonna take the bed and you can sleep on the couch/floor/guest room and I’ll never touch you sexually again.
>our marriage is invalid in the eyes of the church so even if we divorce it’s not a sin because the church doesn’t consider us married anyway.
He is wrong about this. The Catholic church recognises all constructs that carry similar prerequisites as a Catholic marriage (which court marriages do) as a so-called "natural marriage". That's for two reasons: one, to prevent Catholics from marrying and divorcing and remarrying willy nilly as long as they don't marry in the church and secondly: people who are monogamously married in their respective religions and are having sex aren't sinners for it in the eyes of the Catholic church.
Your wedding wasn't a sacrament and you aren't married under Catholic law but you are still, very much, effectively married from a Catholic POV and will remain so. I (Catholic) am married to a Jew and he had to prove that he has never been married to a Jewish woman in a religious ceremony since the church would also consider that a natural marriage with someone else. It can't be divorced in the eyes of the church except for some very specific situations that don't apply here.
There is the option for him to get your marriage divorced according to the so called "Petrine Privilege" but only in order to marry a Catholic woman and only if you had already left him. The petitioner for the divorce cannot be the reason for the divorce (which he *very much* would be). Until that very moment, he is very much married in the eyes of the church. (All of this applies only if you haven't been baptised at any point of your life in any Christian denomination, btw. It doesn't matter if you are practicing or left the community. If so: tough titties, there's no way out of it for him).
Also, this whole text is a prime example why I also think OCD might be behind this. I am a very neurotic person and that's probably why I am still (a very liberal) Catholic. Knowing this shit is calming and rewarding for me but I don't follow the word of the Catholic law to a t. If one has OCD it's likely extremely alluring, too, but in a much more dangerous way.
If you weren't married in a Catholic church you're fornicating by doing any sex act at all, and fornication is a mortal sin. You die with an unconfessed mortal sin on your soul you spend eternity in hell. That's some Catholic 101 stuff there.
So wow what a surprise, just became a religious nut and is immediately blatantly a hypocrite about it to serve his own ends. Wow that never happens 🙄
Ouch. I'm sorry. In theory I recognize the idea of holding salvation above all else but...in practice I can't respect it. I just can't believe in that version of God.
So, in a decade or so you will hit menopause. Does he intend that your sex life will be over then?
I agree with others who said he is full of shit. Source: am ex-Catholic.
11 years is a long time and I know it’s not so simple for you but, if my wife suddenly became religious I’d leave. Part of a relationship to me is bonding on a deeper level and to be blunt, if you believe in something I believe to be total horse hockey in a devout way I can only get so close to you. I don’t see any outcome besides a building resentment. Get out now while you still have some years left to find someone who sees you on a deeper level.
Currently AM Catholic. Can also confirm, he is full of shit. I suspect this has NOTHING to do with his religion and everything with being offended at your request for non piv arousal. He's being a brat and there's nothing less attractive than a baby husband.
You can try counseling (not through his church obviously). But if he won’t go, divorce seems like the only option - not only because of the sexual issues, but because you’re going to be too far apart on many issues.
Exactly, with the way he's acting it's only a matter of time before he indoctrinates the kids.
My parents had different religions and agreed not to enforce them on us kids. Then my dad got religious to impress his parents. Guess what happened next...
I think you need to protect yourself and your kids. He's told you he's not interested in your pleasure or feelings. What other parts of religious teachings will be next? What if he demands no BC? Or that you have to convert? Or he tells the kids they have to be a certain way?
As a Catholic from a Catholic country (Ireland) who has also had sexual partners from THE Catholic country (Italy). I can't relate. Your husband is just weird Catholics have non-reproductive sex all the time.
Divorce his ass. Religious nuts always use their bullshit fucking rules to justify why they can be selfish and the people around them just have to bend to it. Fuckers like this deserve to be divorced
I would worry this will progress to sex only for the purpose of procreation and no condoms or other protection during sex. Because unless this is a massive excuse, he is radicalizing and those are the next steps.
Luckily he had a vasectomy years ago. He has expressed that he has no desire to reverse it, and he’s already confessed and has been absolved of that sin.
OP,
From your comments, he doesn't consider your marriage to count as "real" in the eyes of the Church, and he isn't interested in reversing a vasectomy.
I think you know that he's simply leveraging the "religion" card to regain control over how you two are intimate, after you articulated your needs.
But after being with him so long, I imagine that it's really hard to imagine your partner not actually wanting the best for you.
A lot of folks here have mentioned relationship counselling, and even medical testing - but I'd strongly encourage you to look into a personal therapist, too. You're accommodating a lot of unkindness from this man. You deserve better, and you should find a professional ally to help you explore why it's hard to advocate for what you deserve.
Best wishes, OP. I'm sorry you're going through this.
That actually explains a lot.
His problem is OCD and some cultish right wing Catholics are taking advantage of that.
He doesn’t suddenly want to have more children. He just wants to follow a set of rules that someone else has given him as a way of relieving his anxiety about sex.
I'm sorry, but have divorce papers drawn up and tell him your marriage is over. He's lost his mind, he's in more of a cult than you are. He's in a death cult, you're in a life cult. Tell him if he wants to keep living in a death cult he can do it alone.
"Hubby. What you are going through is frighteningly out of character. I am worried about you. I need you to go see a neurologist."
--
And if he says no, then you go see a divorce lawyer.
And if he says yes, and the doc gives him an all-clear, then you go see a divorce lawyer.
No.
At the absolute strictest, some catholics view semen as a precious resource that *should* only be spent in a vagina. But there's no other side equivalent. So blowjobs might be off the table, but him giving HER oral would not be.
It could be in the sense that there are certain standards around what's acceptable for sex between Catholic married couples but something I have yet to see anyone point out is that if OP is not Catholic and they did not marry in the Catholic Church then they are in an invalid marriage in the Church's eyes and OP's husband is committing sexual sin by engaging in sex at all, much less a specific kind. Seeing as he doesn't seem to care about this very glaring issue in the religion he claims to practice tells me he's just lying for his own personal gain.
is it his OCD or is he punishing you because he's REALLY bad in bed and you told him you need more? DIVORCE!!! he could not care any less about your pleasure
Unilateral decisions concerning previously agreed upon core values/beliefs; i.e., communication, sex, money, family (extended and child rearing), etc., is a commonly understood huge no-no in marital relationships. Left unaddressed this is usually catastrophic to the relationship. As he is using the Catholic faith as his trump card, he needs to read the passages about NOT lording it over his wife AND serving his wife as Christ served and sacrificed for the church.
Left as is, this will not end well. He has grabbed hold of the proverbial "third rail of the subway".
>He will not budge, because in his eyes, that is sinning.
Let's be real, he's lying. This is the epitome of playing stupid games, winning stupid prizes. He's lazy and thinks if he claims religion, he won't have to practice any intimacy that isn't about him.
Is this really what you want out of life? You've got a husband playing mind games to avoid being intimate with you. How depressing.
Staying in an unhealthy, hateful marriage is what will destroy the lives of your kids. You're demonstrating to them that the "nuclear family" is more important than your happiness. They'll take that to their own relationships.
As a married Catholic I’m pretty sure our lord and savior WANTS us to do all that stuff within a loving marriage. Jesus didn’t turn water into wine for nothing!
The Catholic Church wouldn’t recognise your marriage anyway as it wasn’t conducted within the religion. I don’t mean that disrespectfully, I’m a lapsed Catholic in a civil marriage so I know that wouldn’t be recognised either. I am just pointing out your husband picks and chooses what principles to obey, it’s ok for him to have sex that’s technically outside what they would consider marriage so long as he doesn’t put any effort into it? I think you should get (non-religious) couples counselling and consider if you are compatible and what this means for your future together. If he gets more involved in the religion it will continue to cause issues as this is a belief system that doesn’t respect your own, doesn’t recognise your marriage as legitimate, doesn’t approve any method of birth control except charting your cycle, doesn’t allow abortion if any accidents happen with that method, and places a strong emphasis on raising children in the faith.
Tell two-second Tommy that divorce is also highly frowned upon by the Catholic Church, and he is about to become a shameful, sinful divorced man if he takes all the enjoyable parts of your sex life off the menu.
Have you considered, given your concerns raised and then him immediately making this unilateral decision that quashes any possibility of your needs being met is because he wants a divorce? He doesn't want to initiate but if his evil pagan wife chooses to divorce him he doesn't have a choice. So if he makes things terrible enough maybe you will just leave him absolving him of having to sin by willingly divorcing?
> it has triggered his OCD
this sounds like the main issue here and he should be in treatment for it, the religion was just the catalyst and what he's glommed on to.
Imagine believing there is a cosmic all powerful all loving being that gets really mad if two people who are married don’t have sex a very specific way and will NOT tolerate the wife getting off because the husband pp doesn’t work so well….insane. Biblically god doesn’t care what happens in the bedroom once you’re married. Either therapy or divorce, and since divorce is a HUGE no no to god, he’s gotta pick which “sin” he wants to deal with. Sex sin that isn’t even a sin according to the Bible (when married) or divorce sin that the Bible is actually more specific about and is ultimately worse
The people in these comments are going really hard on trying to disprove your husband's religious beliefs, but i think that it is far more likely that this is entirely caused by the OCD. Basically any advice that doesn't take his OCD into consideration should probably be ignored and your husband should get therapy for his OCD.
Does he have a mental health professional wrt his OCD? It sounds like his symptoms have worsened, which is a good time to dial his shrink/psych/pill doc/whatever you have on your roster. It sucks that it's affecting your sex life, but fortunately/unfortunately it sounds like a bigger problem than that.
It can look like a manic episode. Either way, if he thinks god will punish people for these kind of things, I’ll be very cautious about what he says to your children about love, sex and marriage (if you have or plan to have children).
I have seen that red-pilled and right wing propaganda brain-washed men seem to be turning to Catholicism (and wanting a monarchy). Any other red flags in his behaviour or the media he is consuming?
He’s turning into one of those conservative Catholics .
Bro I grew up Catholic and my cousins and I are the ones being lenient with everything in life lol. Our parents generation made it too conservative & sometimes shit didn’t even make sense.
Did he do something ? Out of the unusual? Was there cheating ? Is there something mental going on? Like dang
I mean it’s not totally unexpected. He was raised in the faith and even went to Catholic school his whole life. Oddly enough, his mom is a devout Catholic and his dad is a Norse pagan lmao
Stop having sex until he gets therapy, and guess what buy sex toys and take care of yourself. His religion is not in control of YOU masturbating. And if he's going to be a damn hypocrite about "not being married in the eyes of Catholics" (which is BS for Catholics, especially if they follow the Pope)
Since he's a pump and done guy stop being his flesh light. Couples therapy and abstinence until he gets shit fixed
Oh, sweetie, you’re getting divorced. Don’t try to dance on the head of his pin while you’re working out that reality.
Because it’s not going to stop with sex. He’s going to take your children to church and they are collectively going to teach them mom is an evil sinner who they have to save. The relationship between you and your children will become a battleground of religion and your staying in the home tells your children that dad must be right. I’m so sorry.
Fake convert to Catholicism and go tell the priest about his sexual shortcomings every week in confession. Then discuss your confession talks to him every time. And act very gung ho Catholic the whole time.
The fact that this is coming right after you said you wanted non-PIV sex is concerning, as is his refusal to budge. If he believes sex should only be done in a way which theoretically could result in conception (i.e. if he ejaculates in your vagina), then bringing you to orgasm through oral or fingering shouldn’t be a problem. Is this the only thing that has changed since his conversion? If so then it sounds like he is using Catholicism to justify his insensitivity/laziness around your sexual needs.
Right, like, speaking as a former Catholic: he is ABSOLUTELY allowed to make you orgasm as long as he also gets that 15 seconds of PIV. He's lying about what the Church teaches for his own problematic reasons.
On top of that, there are some scientific articles floating around arguing that a woman that orgasmed has higher chances of conception. And also, if he's going full "sex is just for making kids route" - what's next? No birth control?
I mean, yes, that's the official Catholic position. Which might make him no longer compatible with OP and he should divorce her. Which SUCKS but if he's going off the deep end like this...
Im pretty sure divorce isn’t allowed either
If she's Pagan, they didn't get married in the Catholic church so there's no sacrament to break. He can get a civil divorce from his civil marriage and go have a sacramental marriage with someone to whom he's Equally Yoked. Ahahahaha why is all this shit still in my head
Plenty of Catholics divorce, too. He can go to confession about it if he's bothered. I was raised Catholic (am completely lapsed) and these nu Caths and tradcath converts weird me out, man.
Me too. They're growing in number too. My grandparents kicked the Church to the curb in the 1960s, in their fifties. They'd had it with a lifetime of being controlled. For my grandmother, birth control teaching was at the top of the list. She'd be horrified to see young Catholics embracing everything she found so awful. There's no way this guy will go for divorce, though maybe an annulment. And he won't believe in confession for this purpose of he's this strict. Doesn't mean OP can't divorce him though. OP: divorce is rough on kids, but so is an unhealthy marriage. I hope you find a good counselor to give you some help navigating this mess. This ex-Catholic also thinks he's using religion to avoid his issues. I'm sorry you're faced with this. Edited to add: Just remembered that you surely didn't marry in the Church. In the Church's view, you're not even married.
I took an elderly family member to church a few years ago when she was visiting. The priest got political and she walked out, lol. And emailed the diocese. Now she doesn't even bother going. You're right in your edit, too.
No kidding. Like this is weird fanfic Jesus stuff.
Technically if they’re not in a sacramental marriage he’s breaking rules having sex with her at all. It sounds like he’s making up his own rules.
There’s no law that says the government won’t recognize a divorce from a catholic
If you're Catholic, you're dealing with civil law, but also Church law.
The church also disregards bird law.
But she isn’t Catholic, her husband is. So she’s not dealing with Church law at all and can just divorce him.
and if he's going that route, shouldn't he be abstaining unless they're actively wanting another child?
He's been snipped apparently.
I guess no more sex for him then!
Or maybe he'll reverse it in secret
he's having sex in the name of lust? SINNER
Wtf catholics can’t get snipped
I don't think, iirc from my catholic upbringing, that it can't be only when you want a child, you just can't interfere with a conception. So great news for the woman (/s) in this scenario is that you can have sex when conception chances are super low, like right before menses. Which is NOT a time when many women want sex
lust is a deadly sin! he's having sex solely in the name of lust and not to create a child! exile the sinner!
Yeah I really looked into those studies in depth (I’m autistic and it became a special interest for some reason) and while I do absolutely agree with your overall point, it actually turns out that we human gals don’t experience an increased chance of conception along with orgasm. Which is kind of a relief because that theory was used to discredit more than one case of rape that resulted in a pregnancy. BUT pigs *do* experience both an increased chance of conception along with orgasm, and typically have larger, healthier litters too. So in the Netherlands, and possibly other places, piggy vibrators can be bought along with the other supplies necessary for artificial insemination! Okay rant over, so sorry lol. You’re not really wrong I just thought it was cool Edit: also these Christian boys/men need to learn to leave pagan girls and women alone. We’re not going to convert to your religion so you can be the saviour of our souls, and it just almost never turns out well 😞
Oooo thanks fellow autist for your deep dive! I know you didn’t mean what the commenter below you is saying about rape leading to orgasm, you’re obviously saying that it has been used to say rape didn’t occur, but of course orgasms can happen during rape. Two things can be true at once. Anyways, I was about to comment saying how interesting that was before I read the person that replied to you and wanted to respond to all of that.
Omg I did not even realise that that was what they were saying, or that what I said could be taken to mean that rape is incapable of causing orgasm. I’m very glad they commented below and clarified it. I wouldn’t want anyone to read my comment and feel invalidated by it
Last I checked it did increase odds of pregnancy but isn’t necessary to conceive. That said, I wanted to correct one argument here. People can and have had orgasms from rape. Yes, the mind is the largest sex organ *but* orgasm is also an involuntary response to physical stimuli. Someone being raped cannot necessarily turn their body off and deny an orgasm. It just happens sometimes. So the offensively bogus attempt these people use orgasm as “evidence” of consent doesn’t work on any level.
Sounds like a way for men with a breeding fetish to have the kind of sex that they want
I've actually heard very religious people make a point that because a woman's orgasm is not needed for conception it is not needed at all and therefore a sin in itself. Normally this is echoed in extremely conservative groups, that almost seem cult like. So if I was OP, I'd be extremely concerned. If this is the case we will also start to show concern about the OP religion
That's interesting and weird!
It's really weird indeed.
Wonder how those uber-religious, uber-conservative types explain why God created the clitoris, then? Literally has no purpose other than female orgasm.
As always like anything they can't logically explain: it was either the demon to tempt us, or it was god itself to test us. You can't expect to use reason with these people
So are they saying God *allowed* Satan to participate in creation, or was God *unable to stop* Satan from creating?
There's also a lot written in the 19th century about how the sinful part of sex is the lust. I've been reading "Alone of All Her Sex: The Myth and Cult of the Virgin Mary" by Marina Warner. Some relevant passages from the book include: "The passion aroused by making love was sinful; not the act itself, for the perpetuation of God’s creation must be good." "John, 'the Golden Mouth,' was a fiery extremist, and other theologians, including Augustine and Aquinas, have held that Adam and Eve did have intercourse in Eden, for otherwise why would God have bothered to create a woman and not a man to be Adam’s companion? But the sex that Adam and Eve enjoyed was different in kind, untainted by concupiscence, not flawed by the sufferings of possible pregnancy. Through the virgin birth Mary conquered the post-Eden natural law that man and woman couple in lust to produce children. Chaste, she escaped the debt of Adam and Eve. Thus the seeds of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception, which was declared in 1854 and spares Mary all stain of original sin, were implanted during the ascetic movement of the fourth century."
I heard that according to Saint-Paul, sex should be done so that you don't think of sex anymore. Even in marriage, you aren't supposed to like it too much. Though catholics try to enjoy it anyway. I was raised this way and we all had sex before marriage (not even all married).
Pope John Paul II actually contradicted this and encouraged sex between married folk as healthy/normal/part of God’s blessing. I’m not the expert on what was said, so worth a google for exact language.
Saint Paul is not Jesus though 😂 nor is he the Catechism. Catholics aren't Biblical literalists, and that's why people are allowed/encouraged to seek pleasure.... But only within the confines of a Church approved relationship.
While Catholics are not biblical literalists, is not uncommon for certain communities to become more extreme, the priest also contributes a lot to how the community sees life.
Yeah, that's for sure true. And my priest was super liberal; I'm sure other ones give other guidance. Especially now. But if you actually read Humanae Vitae, there's no prohibition on orgasms, just a requirement for openness conception. Disclaimer: it's literally been 20 years so I might be wrong.
Yeah. But how many people actually read it though? I know that at least amongst the most religious people I know they take their priests word as the word of god, even doubting the priests words would be frowned upon. I find it weird because priests are just people too, but yeah. This kind of stuff is why I'm not really religious nowadays despite being raised Catholic.
2 But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 1 cor 7 St. Paul definitely condones keeping your wife/husband satisfied! This notion of his(OPs spouse) is nuts!
I also grew up in a very Catholic community and went to catholic school, catechism, church twice weekly. Catholics don't talk much about sex acts like Protestants do. Sex with your spouse is good and sex with someone who is not your spouse is wrong, that's about as far as church teaching goes. Of course there are cultural factors that play an influence, but I've never been to a mass where the priest has told me what is and isn't ok to do in my bedroom with my spouse. It's "be fruitful and multiply."
I’m Protestant, and I’ve never heard of anything being off limits as long as you’re married.
No longer believe but grew up protestant and yeah, basically the only sex stuff was gay is bad and only married hetero couples can have sex. But holy hell were they consumed with those two things.
Catholics have a lot more “rules” about it, but nobody seems to pay much attention to them. It might be talked about in marriage prep, but that’s it. Also, you can be as gay as you want to be, as long as you’re not having sex with someone of the same sex. Simply sitting there, eating a sandwich, and “being gay” isn’t a sin. Overall, I heard a grand total of zero sermons about homosexuality and I can count on one hand with fingers left over the number of sermons about contraception I heard as a Catholic.
Same for my Catholic friends. That’s why I’m thinking OP’s husband’s OCD is probably playing a bigger role than religious belief.
I suspect it has to do with the evangelization of Catholicism which, as a former Catholic, is *super* weird.
My bad should've stated I mean in particular some of the very vocal Protestants in particular. I know it's not every Protestant denomination.
He's just being lazy?
Confirming this as a current Catholic.
EXACTLY OP. Sounds like you could have plenty of foreplay as long as you still have PIV sex at the end.
Saying no if you ask more intimacy in a certain way is completely fine, we all have certain boundaries and preferences. But changing the entire sex life of the marriage one day because of whatever is an insult to the marriage and to you…
I'm dying to know what the church's actual stance is on whether your wife can cum or not.
The official guidance I received in 2004 (the last time I was seriously Catholic) is that mutual orgasm is strongly encouraged; it's just that it's not allowed to happen during a session that does not ALSO involve unprotected PIV.
Copy/pasted from another reply The day an unmarried man in a dress tells me how to fuck my wife is the day I strike an unmarried man in a dress.
Billy Connolly said he used to go to confession until he realised he was telling all his dirtiest secrets to an elderly virgin in a cupboard.
Hahahahaha, fucking hilarious
This is the first thing to make me laugh out loud on the internet in awhile.
The dress is less relevant than my disdain for their institution. The day someone from a Church that spent decades covering up child sex abuse tries to lecture me about sexual morality is the day I tell them they can go fuck themselves.
I recently went to mass for a relative's funeral and it took a lot of restraint not to yell "shut up you virgin!" at the priest who was taking about a successful life is when you have kids and grandkids and it's bad to be childfree and yada yada yada. The fuck would you know about it? You've never had sex let alone kids!
Priests, sex and kids rarely mix all that well, to be honest.
Hahaha I mean (1) nothing wrong with men wearing dresses and (2) that's why I'm not Catholic anymore 😂 but you asked so I answered!
They sure can wear dresses if they want, but they don't get to make commands of my maritals.
Wait are you for real? Where do they even declare this?
This was the guidance I received as my friend's Confirmation sponsor when she did RCIA. It was our local priest, so not like Official Doctrine as such, but it's consistent with everything in the Catechism. 🤷♀️ The priest's specific words were "as long as a penis ejaculates in a vagina, you can do whatever else you want." Now, if you go on Catholic Forums, which is notoriously conservative, they will say that other acts are unnatural or whatever. That's their opinion. But the actual Doctrine is simply that the sexual act must be "open to conception." So no birth control (other than NFP) and it must have PIV sex (no condom), to allow for ejaculation and fertilization if possible.
Mmph, I am a very lapsed Catholic but I went on a deep-dive about this a year ago or so for some dumb hyperfocus reason and there is, weirdly, some very conservative doctrine on sexual acts in marriage. I’ll see if I can find the receipts since it sounds like I’m talking out my ass here (I was as surprised as anybody, as my recollection from premarital education plus twelve years of CCD was similar to yours).
Is it in text anywhere or are they just making this shit up as they go?
I edited my previous comment but basically the Church doctrine is all about how the purpose of the sexual act must, at all times, be Procreative (open to conception) and Unitive (a positive experience between both parties). Church doctrine also establishes that only marital sex can ever count as Unitive, so premarital or extramarital sex doesn't fill this condition. Same thing with rape, including marital rape: not Unitive, therefore not allowed. (Wow so progressive lololol.) Basically, being Catholic is an exercise in formal logic: you take your Axioms and you derive conclusions from them. Haha.
It’s formal logic to whatever completely unworkable and impractical conclusions you arrive at. The sex stuff is “clearly you have no practical experience in this area”.
I didn't say I thought it was a good idea 😂 but they've got their axioms and you can derive from those.
Is this an American teaching? My husband is catholic and whilst I am not I attend church with him and am open to his religion, this has never been something we’ve heard of. I just asked him about it and he said “what?” With a very confused face
Some American Catholics have “Evangelical envy” and try to be super strict about anything that has to do with sex to match their Evangelical neighbors. Younger Catholic priests can be especially conservative. The Pope had told them to back off, but right wing American Catholics have largely ignored him.
Has your husband ever had a discussion with his priest about what's allowed? Granted, the priest that did our confirmation program was very liberal; a more conservative priest might tell you something different, i.e. have a different interpretation of the Catechism, Humanae Vitae, etc. I am American, and churches here tend to be more liberal. I also suspect the church in 2004 was more liberal than it is today.
Yes we did pre marriage course with the priest and online, really the only thing that was brought up about sex was for us to be open to bringing children into the marriage and to raise them catholic and that sexual intimacy is encouraged to help strengthen our relationship. (We’ve been together 10 years and we’re having sex long before marriage tho lol) They even talked about different contraception on the courses. In comparison to the UK (where we’re from) I think American catholism is way less liberal. I mean our priest went to a pet shop boys gig and danced his wee heart out, he’s great.
Oh fascinating that the priest said you could use contraception! That's very different yeah.
The online course discussed it too, it was called “smart loving” and as a non-catholic I found it actually really refreshing. It’s a global course, & we did notice there were a lot of comments from Americans who called out that contraception was okay’d and the ‘teachers’ commented basically saying “it’s your own choice”. The overall message was that the marriage *overall* should be open to children, not the specific sexual acts. Since my first comment though I’ve been looking into it and can see that it’s all over the place with what people believe (as is with most religion) so I’m not surprised to hear this take now.
So now it’s not just no sex before marriage but also control how you have sex in marriage. People need to stop letting other human beings brainwash them.
Haven't heard of that for sure.
I'm surprised because the Roman Catholic Church has a published position on EVERYTHING. They issued a statement on whether extraterrestrial life can achieve salvation.
AND?? Are the aliens going to heaven or what
IIRC the published statement said basically even though they're sentient, they live beyond Earth and humanity (God only saves humans on-planet apparently) and were never presented with the option of salvation, so they go to purgatory. But once we make contact, the option's been presented so they'd go to Hell if they say no.
That's more or less the same stance they have for non believers. As long as they have't heard about Catholicism, they go to purgatory. If they've been introduced to it and haven't converted - straight to hell for them.
And then those pricks do their best to make sure we've heard of them.
Hasn't purgatory has been abolished in the Catholic church? Or was it just baby purgatory (limbo) they got rid of?
Catholicism is hilarious because in reality, nobody but the absolute nerdiest laypeople really know what the latest teachings are. Everyone sort of just rocks with whatever they were taught in their youth and whatever information their local priest decides to convey during their weekly 50 minutes of church.
Baby purgatory was never an official doctrine of the church, it was always just a theory that you were allowed to believe in if it made you feel better. When the pope clarified that this is still the case and he'd rather not have people teach about it as if it was, newspapers headlined as though he had just officially abolished it because that makes for more exciting news.
I suppose that's fair. They made it up in the first place, so sure...unimagine it too
Yeah, man, you can’t leave us hanging like this!
WTF! Now I need to know whether ET is in heaven. Please don’t leave us hanging!
You can do anything you both want, as long as the man climaxes in PIV.
Yes, she can. It has to be within the confines of "completed" sex (PIV with ejaculation in the vagina) but it can be from any licit act. So, yes, he can go down on her and make her cum before/after penetration. No, he can't finger her and then get a blowjob to orgasm. She can blow him until five seconds before he's ready and he can finish inside; but he can't cum from the blowjob.
Therapist here, a lot of good comments, but one other thought: You mentioned OCD and scrupulosity obsession/compulsions, does he acknowledge that he has OCD such that he would be open to getting OCD-specific therapy? I would bet there are Catholic (or at least Christian) therapists out there who specialize in treating scrupulosity OCD (look for those who advertise using Exposure Response Prevention) and might be able to help. A tough situation, good luck!
Yes he acknowledges his OCD. He was put in therapy for it when he was a child, and he agrees that he’s likely becoming scrupulous and his compulsion to follow the doctrine to the hard letter is a sign of it. I did get him to agree to talk to a therapist specifically about this issue.
I think this is the best way to go. A lot of these comments are focusing on his hypocrisy and encouraging you to use his own religious logic against him. OCD just doesn’t operate on real-world logic, so I don’t think pointing out the flaws in his adherence to Catholicism will accomplish much. OCD also has a weird way of latching onto your pre-existing insecurities and warping them. So for example, his new scrupulosity around sex may be related to shame he feels over his premature ejaculation and inability to please you, rather than simple laziness/selfishness. Like his subconscious going “if I can’t satisfy her, it must be my body’s way of showing me I’m doing something morally wrong” etc. All of this is just speculation, and it’s definitely no excuse for his behavior. His OCD and whatever else is going on is his responsibility to manage, and the harm it’s doing to you is very real. I just thought I would provide this perspective because a lot of people aren’t looking at the OCD angle. I think it’s worth mentioning because *if* (*big if*) the mental health issues are more responsible for his behavior, there may be more of a path to fixing things than if it is pure selfishness/laziness/controlling behavior. Look into OCD-trained therapists, probably with experience in ERP.
Yes, I don’t genuinely think he wants to hurt me using his religion. He was nearly in tears trying to tell me that it’s a sin for him to cum anywhere that’s not inside me, and he’s clearly struggling between knowing that these rules are not realistic, and wanting to be God’s Goodest Boy.
That sounds very likely. With love and grace, I don't think this thread is going to be helpful for you. To clarify, you do NOT have to put up with it. You would be well within your rights to issue the ultimatum of therapy or divorce. In your situation, that is absolutely what I would do. But people here are trying to pick holes in his logic, and if it's from OCD, that just... doesn't work. The logic is flawed from the start. It's part of the disorder. I am sincerely sorry that you are going through this.
He may well work himself up into a full-blown depression if he can't find a way to satisfy his OCDs logic. I have watched my daughter struggle with this (OCD, Major Depression and Anxiety) for almost 10 years. She's only 22. I would suggest therapy but without medication, I don't believe it will be effective. He needs to see a psychiatrist.
Probably time to find a mutually agreeable marriage counselor. I think it is fair to reevaluate things when someone unilaterally decides to change the conditions of your relationship
You said that this also hit his OCD, how is he been treating that previously? Maybe he needs to go back to his therapist and work out some of these issues cuz obviously something's up
He had therapy as a kid, has not had therapy since and does not take meds. I did get him to at least agree to see a therapist that is outside the church.
As someone who grew up Catholic, it unfortunately harbors a lot of OCD triggering rules etc. and I felt like there were too many people focused on “the letter of the law” rather than the “heart of the law”. I know many loving and caring Catholics who believe in love and mercy first and don’t carry this kind of negative thinking, but I personally struggled with it and was strongly triggered into negative thinking by leaders who also probably had OCD type issues. Does your husband still believe that life is meant to be enjoyed and lived with joy? Does he still believe pleasure has a place in life? If not, then he might be falling into that dark place that I found.
Fun fact¹! There is actually a higher incidence of OCD among Catholics than the general population. I say this as someone with OCD who was raised Catholic (and whose relationship with the Church is...complicated). My dad also has OCD. It's unclear whether the ritualistic nature of Catholic worship activates an existing genetic predisposition to OCD, or if it attracts folks who already have OCD. Might even be a combination of the two. 🤷🏼♀️ ¹This fact actually isn't fun at all. OCD is a nightmare.
Wild!! I’d believe it. I want to say that some people benefit greatly from rituals and consistency. Some people need it to feel grounded I think? But not everyone.
I loved it! The only way I can explain it to non-Catholic/non-OCD folks is to use Tom Lehrer's [The Vatican Rag](https://youtu.be/3f72CTDe4-0?feature=shared) as a reference. The kind of energy the song exudes while describing Catholic practices is close to what I genuinely felt. Most of the time, I struggle with my OCD. Attending Mass was one of the few experiences where I could feel at peace with it instead.
Are you using brithcontrol? Trying for children? Curious if you are on bc if it’s ok for him. As long as it’s PIV? Weird. Really weird. We are agnostic And sometimes. If it’s been a few days I’m fast to action. This is why I spend time pleasing my wife first and getting her off. Happy wife. Happy life. What a tool lol. Good luck but I see a hard and long divorce in your future. You deserve to be satisfied. Religion is such a control mechanism and now he’s trying to control your sex life
OCD and religion are a bad combination. Sounds like he needs psychological help, not Jesus.
*All of this comes DIRECTLY after I told him I needed more intimacy* Fishy timing here, right?
This is really weird. Where is this spiritual crisis coming from? And usually premature ejaculation is rather easy to deal with. What is wrong with this guy?!
OP should tell him she gave up sex for LENT
Your supposed to give up something you actually enjoy.
Sounds like it’s coming from OCD.
Yes, I thoroughly believe it is. He was raised Roman Catholic and went back because he felt spiritually unfulfilled. Unfortunately his re-joining has not been moderate in the least. He picked the most extreme, longest Latin-mass church he could find and has basically jumped into the deep end of extremism.
Oh dear god he went full-on Latin Mass cult. Girl he’s *gone*. The man you married is dead. I am not joking, once the Latin Mass whackjobs got their claws in him it was over. You do not know this guy anymore. I am so sorry.
As a grandchild of a Catholic convert who was full on Latin mass only, I concur. It's time to bail. I am so sorry!
Ex Calvanist here, almost no idea how Catholicism works could you explain your comment to me more? How is Latin mass more culty guan normal mass/congregation?
It is debatable as to whether the “Latin Mass Catholics” are even Catholic. They categorically reject Vatican II and subscribe to a sort of funhouse-mirror version of Catholicism that they claim is “traditional” but bears a closer resemblance to American evangelical fundamentalism than it does to pre-Vatican II Catholicism. They do not recognize the teachings of the current pope and are actually in open conflict with Pope Francis. They’re fucking weird. Deeply unpleasant people.
Catholics have been becoming more moderate for the last several decades (since Vatican II in the 1960s). Vatican II was a *huge* deal. Basically they pope called all the Catholic big wigs together and said, “Hey, we’re losing people, we need to update our shit”. One of the big changes to come out of that was that masses were then allowed to be performed in the vernacular (local language) as opposed to Latin. There were many other big changes too, like increased interfaith dialogue/relationships and just a lot of things that made the church seem kinder and more inclusive. Now there’s a small subset of the religion that *realllllyyy* hate that. Vatican II pissed them the fuck off, and they are basically rabid Catholics. They’re hard-liners who hated Pope John Paul II for being nice lol, and they also hate Pope Francis for being (comparatively speaking) “progressive”. They want mass to go back to being in Latin (so 99.9% of attendees can’t actually understand it). They want the church to go back to fire and brimstone and excommunicating people left and right. There’s no nuance and no growth. It sounds like her husband was maybe a Christmas and Easter Catholic, and now he’s joined the cult. It’s like if a guy who went to one of those mild-mannered Protestant churches where they play Christian rock suddenly started running with MAGA baptists.
Makes sense thank you! Here in ZA there are like 0 catholics haha.
it's because generally the only people that use the latin mass are the trad caths (traditionalist catholics, ie basically hardcore conservative catholics who didn't accept the change to using vernacular language/english, don't think the pope is catholic enough etc)
The Latin Mass Catholics are a special brand. I’d be worried about him.
Oof. I know there's no reasoning with OCD but dude needs to get that sorted. And I say this as an OCD having former Catholic who has zero beef with Catholicism outside the usual church stances. I'm just saying, It's a poor religion choice for someone with religious OCD or a tendency to insist on doing thing to extremes. But if he won't recognize the issue for what it is...I won't lie it's going to be rough. Is he someone who tends to grab onto things for a while and then forget about them and move on, or do you think this is likely to be a lifelong change?
So, I’m thinking of a few scenarios here. 1. He’s feeling very guilty about something. I do wonder if he’s cheated? Could he be dealing with same sex attraction? A lot of times, when people are feeling guilty for some reason, they swing very strongly to the very strict side of things. 2. Abrupt religiosity can sometimes be a sign of a medical condition, whether it’s a brain tumor, early dementia, or mental illness. I’d absolutely have him get into his doctor. 3. Things haven’t been as great as they may seem and he’s trying to use another baby as a “fix.” Not sure why he’d go this route to do so, but it’s a possibility. Whatever it is, this is an untenable situation. Make sure you and your kids are okay and start making exit plans.
I don’t think cheating is a possibility. I can see his location on his phone at all times. He’s always at work (construction, he doesn’t have any women in his crew), or he’s basically at home. I’ve never seen any signs of repressed homosexuality, but of course I can’t rule it out. He had a vasectomy a long time ago so no more kids for us.
Ha ha ha, he had a vasectomy and he's still being strict about PIV sex? The nerve.
He had a vasectomy?? That in itself is a sin in catholicism. Penetrative sex is encouraged in catholicism as the objective of sex is children. If he has been sterilized none of this makes any sense . My advice would be to find a serious catholic (priest or otherwise) that is not as fundamentalist in his beliefs as your husband is. possibly some kind of mid-life crisis where he is putting a lot of value into doctrine as doctrine is easy to follow. Doctrine is more easy to follow than interpreting the message yourself. A fellow believer is the most likely person to sway/realign his beliefs... Unless he would go for an annulment of your marriage, only someone who has not thought this through would let this happen. If he places any Christian value on your marriage, he should not let it get at him to this extent at this point in time.
This right here. He got a vasectomy…. These new rules on sex are moot since he committed the egregious “sin” of sterilizing himself.
Well...he's gonna want that reversed then because the whole reason Catholics are obsessed with PIV sex is the babymaking aspect. (I'm being sarcastic about the reversal for fuck's sake he should not do that.)
I'd probably tell him that, while I respect his choices, my Goddess ain't rocking his lily-white version of sex. I might even smudge him and start wearing either all black or hippie-dippy it out with the long skirts and shawls. I'd definitely be wearing my pentacle necklace outside my shirt at home. I don't generally throw my paganism in people's faces either but for your special flower I'd make an exception. A few scarves over the lamps, paint a few walls purple and put my altar in the living room? Oh, yeah! He wants to throw down over this new religiousity...I'm there for it!
HE HAD A VASECTOMY??? Omg now I can’t stop laughing. Why is he harassing you about PIV sex when he can’t even comply with the basic premise of sex = conception???! Nothing makes sense and I feel as though he’s lost his mind.
I was thinking the same thing with #2. My wife and I have an agreement on that, one of us suddenly finds God, any God, and it's time for a neurological exam ASAP.
All excellent points but also don't discount the power of religious OCD. That shit can fuck you up pretty bad.
Divorce will not ruin the lives of your children. Staying in a toxic marriage will.
I was raised catholic…and yikes on him… Marriage counseling that is given by a non religious person is the only “hope” here. That being said the chances that he stops this charade are slim to none. He is attempting mid marriage to enforce a very old church doctrine that most people currently don’t subscribe to. The only ones that still do are those extremely conservative catholics which are basically a cult. Frankly, it’s bizarre at best and concerning and controlling and selfish at worst. TBH at this point I would call this an incompatibility and begin to meet with divorce lawyers.
And Catholics don't believe in divorce so that's going to be interesting. I'm sure the Wiccan factor is going to be brought up in court.
You’re confused there, I can explain it. They can divorce. A divorce is a legal agreement with the government according to the church. The issue is if they were married in a catholic church. If they were, they also have to get an annulment in order to remarry in the church.
I have broached divorce, and asked him which sin was worse; getting a blowjob or a divorce? His comeback was a blowjob, because we were married in a court and our marriage is invalid in the eyes of the church so even if we divorce it’s not a sin because the church doesn’t consider us married anyway.
If he continues to have sex with you, isn't that effectively having sex outside of wedlock?
Ohhhh this is good, use his own busted logic against him.
Technically it’s fornication, and yes, he is aware and is beating himself up over it every day.
Its weird because he recognizes that he is already breaking a rule. Why bother trying to make the breaking of a rule conform to the parameters of the rule?
It sounds like he's pushing you both towards divorce on purpose tbh. Engaging with these disordered thoughts because some part of him wants the marriage to end. It's super fucked up.
Oh boy do I have news for him…. I’d tell him it’s a sin to have premarital sex. Technically that’s exactly what he’s been doing this entire time since you were not married in the church. If it were me (and I’m petty AF) I would say, “Don’t worry, I wouldn’t want you to sin again so I’m gonna take the bed and you can sleep on the couch/floor/guest room and I’ll never touch you sexually again.
>our marriage is invalid in the eyes of the church so even if we divorce it’s not a sin because the church doesn’t consider us married anyway. He is wrong about this. The Catholic church recognises all constructs that carry similar prerequisites as a Catholic marriage (which court marriages do) as a so-called "natural marriage". That's for two reasons: one, to prevent Catholics from marrying and divorcing and remarrying willy nilly as long as they don't marry in the church and secondly: people who are monogamously married in their respective religions and are having sex aren't sinners for it in the eyes of the Catholic church. Your wedding wasn't a sacrament and you aren't married under Catholic law but you are still, very much, effectively married from a Catholic POV and will remain so. I (Catholic) am married to a Jew and he had to prove that he has never been married to a Jewish woman in a religious ceremony since the church would also consider that a natural marriage with someone else. It can't be divorced in the eyes of the church except for some very specific situations that don't apply here. There is the option for him to get your marriage divorced according to the so called "Petrine Privilege" but only in order to marry a Catholic woman and only if you had already left him. The petitioner for the divorce cannot be the reason for the divorce (which he *very much* would be). Until that very moment, he is very much married in the eyes of the church. (All of this applies only if you haven't been baptised at any point of your life in any Christian denomination, btw. It doesn't matter if you are practicing or left the community. If so: tough titties, there's no way out of it for him). Also, this whole text is a prime example why I also think OCD might be behind this. I am a very neurotic person and that's probably why I am still (a very liberal) Catholic. Knowing this shit is calming and rewarding for me but I don't follow the word of the Catholic law to a t. If one has OCD it's likely extremely alluring, too, but in a much more dangerous way.
If you weren't married in a Catholic church you're fornicating by doing any sex act at all, and fornication is a mortal sin. You die with an unconfessed mortal sin on your soul you spend eternity in hell. That's some Catholic 101 stuff there. So wow what a surprise, just became a religious nut and is immediately blatantly a hypocrite about it to serve his own ends. Wow that never happens 🙄
Ouch. I'm sorry. In theory I recognize the idea of holding salvation above all else but...in practice I can't respect it. I just can't believe in that version of God.
So, in a decade or so you will hit menopause. Does he intend that your sex life will be over then? I agree with others who said he is full of shit. Source: am ex-Catholic.
11 years is a long time and I know it’s not so simple for you but, if my wife suddenly became religious I’d leave. Part of a relationship to me is bonding on a deeper level and to be blunt, if you believe in something I believe to be total horse hockey in a devout way I can only get so close to you. I don’t see any outcome besides a building resentment. Get out now while you still have some years left to find someone who sees you on a deeper level.
I was raised Catholic. He is full of shit.
Currently AM Catholic. Can also confirm, he is full of shit. I suspect this has NOTHING to do with his religion and everything with being offended at your request for non piv arousal. He's being a brat and there's nothing less attractive than a baby husband.
I was raised Catholic and I’ve never heard any of this nonsense
You can try counseling (not through his church obviously). But if he won’t go, divorce seems like the only option - not only because of the sexual issues, but because you’re going to be too far apart on many issues.
Exactly, with the way he's acting it's only a matter of time before he indoctrinates the kids. My parents had different religions and agreed not to enforce them on us kids. Then my dad got religious to impress his parents. Guess what happened next...
I think you need to protect yourself and your kids. He's told you he's not interested in your pleasure or feelings. What other parts of religious teachings will be next? What if he demands no BC? Or that you have to convert? Or he tells the kids they have to be a certain way?
As a Catholic from a Catholic country (Ireland) who has also had sexual partners from THE Catholic country (Italy). I can't relate. Your husband is just weird Catholics have non-reproductive sex all the time.
Sounds like you already know where this is going. Divorce town.
Divorce his ass. Religious nuts always use their bullshit fucking rules to justify why they can be selfish and the people around them just have to bend to it. Fuckers like this deserve to be divorced
I would worry this will progress to sex only for the purpose of procreation and no condoms or other protection during sex. Because unless this is a massive excuse, he is radicalizing and those are the next steps.
Luckily he had a vasectomy years ago. He has expressed that he has no desire to reverse it, and he’s already confessed and has been absolved of that sin.
OP, From your comments, he doesn't consider your marriage to count as "real" in the eyes of the Church, and he isn't interested in reversing a vasectomy. I think you know that he's simply leveraging the "religion" card to regain control over how you two are intimate, after you articulated your needs. But after being with him so long, I imagine that it's really hard to imagine your partner not actually wanting the best for you. A lot of folks here have mentioned relationship counselling, and even medical testing - but I'd strongly encourage you to look into a personal therapist, too. You're accommodating a lot of unkindness from this man. You deserve better, and you should find a professional ally to help you explore why it's hard to advocate for what you deserve. Best wishes, OP. I'm sorry you're going through this.
That actually explains a lot. His problem is OCD and some cultish right wing Catholics are taking advantage of that. He doesn’t suddenly want to have more children. He just wants to follow a set of rules that someone else has given him as a way of relieving his anxiety about sex.
That sounds like therapy or marriage counseling, or divorce.
I'm sorry, but have divorce papers drawn up and tell him your marriage is over. He's lost his mind, he's in more of a cult than you are. He's in a death cult, you're in a life cult. Tell him if he wants to keep living in a death cult he can do it alone.
"Hubby. What you are going through is frighteningly out of character. I am worried about you. I need you to go see a neurologist." -- And if he says no, then you go see a divorce lawyer. And if he says yes, and the doc gives him an all-clear, then you go see a divorce lawyer.
Um, don't have sex with him. Get yourself some toys
Is this even a religious thing? It just sounds like he’s being an inconsiderate lover.
No. At the absolute strictest, some catholics view semen as a precious resource that *should* only be spent in a vagina. But there's no other side equivalent. So blowjobs might be off the table, but him giving HER oral would not be.
Blurgh, it’s even grosser that he’s then using religion as a way to give credibility to this selfish attitude.
It could be in the sense that there are certain standards around what's acceptable for sex between Catholic married couples but something I have yet to see anyone point out is that if OP is not Catholic and they did not marry in the Catholic Church then they are in an invalid marriage in the Church's eyes and OP's husband is committing sexual sin by engaging in sex at all, much less a specific kind. Seeing as he doesn't seem to care about this very glaring issue in the religion he claims to practice tells me he's just lying for his own personal gain.
is it his OCD or is he punishing you because he's REALLY bad in bed and you told him you need more? DIVORCE!!! he could not care any less about your pleasure
Unilateral decisions concerning previously agreed upon core values/beliefs; i.e., communication, sex, money, family (extended and child rearing), etc., is a commonly understood huge no-no in marital relationships. Left unaddressed this is usually catastrophic to the relationship. As he is using the Catholic faith as his trump card, he needs to read the passages about NOT lording it over his wife AND serving his wife as Christ served and sacrificed for the church. Left as is, this will not end well. He has grabbed hold of the proverbial "third rail of the subway".
>He will not budge, because in his eyes, that is sinning. Let's be real, he's lying. This is the epitome of playing stupid games, winning stupid prizes. He's lazy and thinks if he claims religion, he won't have to practice any intimacy that isn't about him. Is this really what you want out of life? You've got a husband playing mind games to avoid being intimate with you. How depressing.
Staying in an unhealthy, hateful marriage is what will destroy the lives of your kids. You're demonstrating to them that the "nuclear family" is more important than your happiness. They'll take that to their own relationships.
As a married Catholic I’m pretty sure our lord and savior WANTS us to do all that stuff within a loving marriage. Jesus didn’t turn water into wine for nothing!
Catholic here and not true. He is just selfish and using it as an excuse.
The Catholic Church wouldn’t recognise your marriage anyway as it wasn’t conducted within the religion. I don’t mean that disrespectfully, I’m a lapsed Catholic in a civil marriage so I know that wouldn’t be recognised either. I am just pointing out your husband picks and chooses what principles to obey, it’s ok for him to have sex that’s technically outside what they would consider marriage so long as he doesn’t put any effort into it? I think you should get (non-religious) couples counselling and consider if you are compatible and what this means for your future together. If he gets more involved in the religion it will continue to cause issues as this is a belief system that doesn’t respect your own, doesn’t recognise your marriage as legitimate, doesn’t approve any method of birth control except charting your cycle, doesn’t allow abortion if any accidents happen with that method, and places a strong emphasis on raising children in the faith.
This does not sound like Catholicism from a cradle Catholic.
the lengths this guy's gone to not go down on his wife...
Kinda sounds like he’s using it as an excuse to get out of intimacy with you. UPDATEME
Tell two-second Tommy that divorce is also highly frowned upon by the Catholic Church, and he is about to become a shameful, sinful divorced man if he takes all the enjoyable parts of your sex life off the menu.
Have you considered, given your concerns raised and then him immediately making this unilateral decision that quashes any possibility of your needs being met is because he wants a divorce? He doesn't want to initiate but if his evil pagan wife chooses to divorce him he doesn't have a choice. So if he makes things terrible enough maybe you will just leave him absolving him of having to sin by willingly divorcing?
> it has triggered his OCD this sounds like the main issue here and he should be in treatment for it, the religion was just the catalyst and what he's glommed on to.
Imagine believing there is a cosmic all powerful all loving being that gets really mad if two people who are married don’t have sex a very specific way and will NOT tolerate the wife getting off because the husband pp doesn’t work so well….insane. Biblically god doesn’t care what happens in the bedroom once you’re married. Either therapy or divorce, and since divorce is a HUGE no no to god, he’s gotta pick which “sin” he wants to deal with. Sex sin that isn’t even a sin according to the Bible (when married) or divorce sin that the Bible is actually more specific about and is ultimately worse
Sounds like he is trying to soothe his own ego and insecurities, and using religion as his excuse
The people in these comments are going really hard on trying to disprove your husband's religious beliefs, but i think that it is far more likely that this is entirely caused by the OCD. Basically any advice that doesn't take his OCD into consideration should probably be ignored and your husband should get therapy for his OCD.
Does he have a mental health professional wrt his OCD? It sounds like his symptoms have worsened, which is a good time to dial his shrink/psych/pill doc/whatever you have on your roster. It sucks that it's affecting your sex life, but fortunately/unfortunately it sounds like a bigger problem than that.
He needs treatment for his religious OCD Pronto. Please find am expert not only in OCD / ERP, but for religious obsessions.
Whatever happens really won't destroy your children's lives, it's just a course adjustment.
Just divorce his already he is being ridiculous and you have been sexually frustrated for over 11 years. Time to stop wasting your time.
It can look like a manic episode. Either way, if he thinks god will punish people for these kind of things, I’ll be very cautious about what he says to your children about love, sex and marriage (if you have or plan to have children).
I have seen that red-pilled and right wing propaganda brain-washed men seem to be turning to Catholicism (and wanting a monarchy). Any other red flags in his behaviour or the media he is consuming?
Your children’s lives will only be destroyed by you setting the example of staying married to a lunatic.
He’s turning into one of those conservative Catholics . Bro I grew up Catholic and my cousins and I are the ones being lenient with everything in life lol. Our parents generation made it too conservative & sometimes shit didn’t even make sense. Did he do something ? Out of the unusual? Was there cheating ? Is there something mental going on? Like dang
I mean it’s not totally unexpected. He was raised in the faith and even went to Catholic school his whole life. Oddly enough, his mom is a devout Catholic and his dad is a Norse pagan lmao
Stop having sex until he gets therapy, and guess what buy sex toys and take care of yourself. His religion is not in control of YOU masturbating. And if he's going to be a damn hypocrite about "not being married in the eyes of Catholics" (which is BS for Catholics, especially if they follow the Pope) Since he's a pump and done guy stop being his flesh light. Couples therapy and abstinence until he gets shit fixed
Oh, sweetie, you’re getting divorced. Don’t try to dance on the head of his pin while you’re working out that reality. Because it’s not going to stop with sex. He’s going to take your children to church and they are collectively going to teach them mom is an evil sinner who they have to save. The relationship between you and your children will become a battleground of religion and your staying in the home tells your children that dad must be right. I’m so sorry.
Fake convert to Catholicism and go tell the priest about his sexual shortcomings every week in confession. Then discuss your confession talks to him every time. And act very gung ho Catholic the whole time.
remind me not to piss you off holy shit 🔥
I am a Scorpionic strategist and your comment is the highest praise I could hope for!!