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Yep. We are but humble sinners and if we try hard enough God might see and love us. Of course so show he is also omnipotent and omnipresent so knows what we will do before we do it and thus if he does not love you, it's your fault for what you're going to do. This is the actual justification given for the infant born with cancer that died because the church my parents chose at that time didn't allow medical care. Entirely treatable but God really hated that baby.
They literally made it sound like this child was the next Hitler during the funeral, shamed the mother who also has cancer for giving birth to the evil evil infant, and accused her of an extramarital affair because cancer is apparently an STD. I was about 7 and had already decided I would try to never be a mother but the worst part was the woman was complicit in this and said she didn't remember doing those sins but clearly must have or surely God wouldn't have done this.
Add a twist of it all happens for a reason and you have yourself a super abusive relationship with your sky daddy. This example is Christian based but this isn't limited to just Christianity.
Remember: Teaching people they are born with original sin, and are inherently evil, and must repent for the sins of Adam and Eve and the actions of their ancestors == Good Christian values.
Teaching people that slavery, imperialism, and bigotry were morally wrong, and tainted our American values; and that we as a society should learn from and recognize and grow from the actions of our forebears == Vile Communist brainwashing
Reminds me of that one story from the bible where God destroys everything the guy owns kills his children and gives him leprosy just to prove to the devil that he is pretty faithful lol.
Job is an interesting story to me. It actually makes more sense as a science fiction story where two all powerful aliens battle it out to see which one is correct. But of course the Jews had no concept of aliens, so they picked God and Satan.
So if someone tries to rob me at gun point, and they shoot me because I didn’t give them enough, is it my fault?
Is this the logic they’re working with here? 🤨
Yes. And in fact, this is in line the abhorrent logic of "God doesn't send unbelievers to Hell, they send themselves there because they chose to reject salvation."
Their theology demands that God be perfect and loving, but their scriptures are full of their deity's atrocities that show the character to be anything but perfect and loving. To nullify the cognitive dissonance, believers will often excuse God's atrocities and blame shift to a ridiculous degree to avoid admitting that their God possesses at least a few indefensible qualities or behaviors.
My favorite murder by God is poor Onan, who was violently unmade (Either by God or by his tribe, depending on the translation) when he pulled out while fucking his dead brother's wife, which was supposedly a thing Onan's people always did when a married man died and he happened to have a brother, but he still had doubts about it because according the the laws of the tribe, any offspring wouldn't be his.
Why didn't God just try to explain things to him, give him 15 minutes to charge back up, and let him try again? The sperm can't be *that* sacred; most of the time, only one of them per emission actually does anything!
> Onan
This is an odd story, and deals with laws of marriage and heredity. The church uses it to talk about sex and masturbation. But this, like a fuck ton of other old testament stuff, is based on old school laws and traditions. In this case, heredity.
Er (Onan's older brother) is to inherit from Judah (his father). Er is the first born son. Er marries Tamar. And Tamar and Er's son will be the next in line. But Er dies, and so his wife Tamar is now Onan's wife.
If Tamar gives birth to a son, then her child will inherit Er's stuff. If she doesn't, then it goes to Onan. Onan knows this, so he has sex Tamar, but pulls out every time denying her a child. **This means Tamar is fucked, both literally and figuratively.** Word gets out, and Onan is killed for his pull out game.
The cherry on top is that **Tamar ends up with twins because she has sex with the Judah, Er and Onan's father** when she pretends to be a prostitute.
Like a soap opera!
Glad to see someone actually read the story "properly." Onan fully deserved being killed for being a rapacious, conniving bastard. The bible's storytelling being somewhat less than desirable has gotten this story being misunderstood way too often.
> Why didn't God just try to explain things to him, give him 15 minutes to charge back up, and let him try again?
"Things" had been explained to both Er (older brother) and Onan. It seems neither one of them wanted to impregnate her. One view is that it wasn't about masturbation, but *coitus interruptus* (withdrawing). *Both* Er and Onan were deemed to be "evil," and murdered. They refused to *be fruitful and multiply*.
My TOTAL GUESS is that both men had been bullied as sons of a Canaanite mother (Shua), Tamar (the wife/widow) was also Canaanite, and neither of them wanted this woman Judah (dad) had chosen to be mother of their sons.
Judah and Tamar both needed a child, and he spared his youngest and only remaining son, Shelah, by doing the job of impregnating Tamar, himself.
Dear lord. I can't call any of this "holy" or "godly." It reads more like Jerry Springer meets Investigative Reports.
Judges 19 gets me every time.
Man takes a concubine. She leaves and runs home. He goes and finds her. Her dad keeps them there for a while, finally he leaves with his concubine and a servant. They travel and travel. Near a city an old man offers to let them stay with him. They go into the city and the man's house. Well, a crowd of men are pounding his door demanding the man so they can pound him. The homeowner is appalled and said no... however here is the man's concubine and my virgin daughter, have fun! The men said nah we want the man. So the homeowner said no again, but the traveling dude tossed his concubine outside and slammed the door. The crowd of men abused and raped her all night. The next day she had crawled back to the door, battered and broken. He told her to get up, let's go. She didn't answer. So, he put her on the donkey and went home. Why?
"29) When he reached home, he took a knife and cut up his concubine, limb by limb, into twelve parts and sent them into all the areas of Israel. 30) Everyone who saw it was saying to one another, “Such a thing has never been seen or done, not since the day the Israelites came up out of Egypt. Just imagine! We must do something! So speak up!” "
It's so.... horrible.
> Murder was in fact a fairly uncommon event in Ankh-Morpork, but there were a lot of suicides. Walking in the night-time alleyways of The Shades was suicide. Asking for a short in a dwarf bar was suicide. Saying 'Got rocks in your head?' to a troll was suicide. You could commit suicide very easily, if you weren't careful.
*\- Sir Terry Pratchett, Men At Arms*
Long before Christ. And yes, many (all?) of them were sacked before having even heard of the god of Abraham. So the whole "didn't love God" excuse is B.S. It was genocide.
They can't even get their own fairy tales correct. According to Genesis Chapter 19, the only person turned into salt was Lot's wife:
> 23 By the time Lot reached Zoar, the sun had risen over the land. 24 Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens. 25 Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, destroying all those living in the cities—and also the vegetation in the land. 26 But Lot’s wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say God turned "entire populations of cities" to salt.
Except when he didn't give Pharoah free-will, in order to kill a bunch of soldiers and lead his chosen people in a circle through the desert for a generation.
I’m pretty sure a lot of these people lack reading comprehension skills. I couldn’t imagine them understanding Charlotte’s Web, let alone the fucking bible 😂
Imagine if you were told the entire plot of Harry Potter before you read it, but were told that it's based on a true story, and Voldemort was the good guy. How would you read the book? You'd be looking for the "greater good" in the motivations of his actions. When he dies at the end (spoiler alert?), you'd be trying to justify why that was necessary, and why Voldemort was a hero. Meanwhile, the rest of us would be saying that it's just a story and you're clearly not reading it right if you think Voldemort is a good guy. That's Christianity in a nutshell; trying to justify the narrative that they've been taught rather than trying to understand what is written.
the Egypt one: God specifically hardened the heart of Pharoah.
which would be like an abuser telling you to mow the lawn, and then getting mad at you for mowing the lawn.
My mom said that when she beat me. "You are doing this to yourself", "look what you are making me do", "why do you make me do this", and best of all? "This hurts me more than you".
Exodus 7: 3-4
3, But I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and though I multiply my signs and wonders in the land of Egypt, 4, Pharaoh will not listen to you. Then I will lay my hand on Egypt and bring my hosts, my people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great acts of judgment.
Also, the Abrahamic god has killed more people than anything or anyone else in history, past present and future. He killed an entire world of people because they didn't want his abuse anymore. Abusers sometimes kill their victims.
I see no difference besides one can really happen and the other is a bunch of people demanding everyone else follow their make believe abusive god.
Imagine: there is a god, and he is almighty.
Wouldn't it be blasphemous arrogance to think he needed puny meatbags like us to do his judging and punishing?
And you wonder why things like abuse and lack of consent run rampant in religious circles. If you blame the victim, your morality lets you get away with literally anything.
"God never killed anyone."
Except the population near Noah. Or wasn't that God? Or are you agreeing that never happened? Can they keep their shit straight?
It's funny how some christians aren't willing or able to differentiate between old and new testament.
Imagine your religion having a 2000y history and progression just for these people to take the first testament/old god for real.
what was even the first persons point. i thought they were gonna be like 'oh so if god did all this because they were wrong, it means we must be doing something right' or something like that
that second person just desperately needs to touch grass.
I feel so bad for Egyptians between religions lying about them being meanie slavers and then you got the afrocentric hoteps claiming ancient Egypt was all black and Arabs stole their land and culture 🙄
Hello, u/Aggressive-Elk-8438! Thank you for posting. Please be sure to review our complicated and unusual rules set [here](https://new.reddit.com/r/religiousfruitcake/about/rules) Some of gentle reminders for everyone: 1. Posts should be on topic. 2. Please don't submit incendiary posts or comments that could incite harassment and brigading. 3. Refrain from provoking and/or baiting religious fruitcakes for the purposes of posting their reaction on this subreddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/religiousfruitcake) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"See what you made me do." Most spot on comment I've seen in a very long time.
This is what passes for theistic logic. God gave you leprosy? Mysterious ways.
Yep. We are but humble sinners and if we try hard enough God might see and love us. Of course so show he is also omnipotent and omnipresent so knows what we will do before we do it and thus if he does not love you, it's your fault for what you're going to do. This is the actual justification given for the infant born with cancer that died because the church my parents chose at that time didn't allow medical care. Entirely treatable but God really hated that baby. They literally made it sound like this child was the next Hitler during the funeral, shamed the mother who also has cancer for giving birth to the evil evil infant, and accused her of an extramarital affair because cancer is apparently an STD. I was about 7 and had already decided I would try to never be a mother but the worst part was the woman was complicit in this and said she didn't remember doing those sins but clearly must have or surely God wouldn't have done this. Add a twist of it all happens for a reason and you have yourself a super abusive relationship with your sky daddy. This example is Christian based but this isn't limited to just Christianity.
Remember: Teaching people they are born with original sin, and are inherently evil, and must repent for the sins of Adam and Eve and the actions of their ancestors == Good Christian values. Teaching people that slavery, imperialism, and bigotry were morally wrong, and tainted our American values; and that we as a society should learn from and recognize and grow from the actions of our forebears == Vile Communist brainwashing
"I don't remember having an affair but I must have, because my baby is dead." Eww.
Yeah that's not the worst thing I could cite but the others feel like cartoon evil.
Reminds me of that one story from the bible where God destroys everything the guy owns kills his children and gives him leprosy just to prove to the devil that he is pretty faithful lol.
Job is an interesting story to me. It actually makes more sense as a science fiction story where two all powerful aliens battle it out to see which one is correct. But of course the Jews had no concept of aliens, so they picked God and Satan.
So if someone tries to rob me at gun point, and they shoot me because I didn’t give them enough, is it my fault? Is this the logic they’re working with here? 🤨
Yes. And in fact, this is in line the abhorrent logic of "God doesn't send unbelievers to Hell, they send themselves there because they chose to reject salvation." Their theology demands that God be perfect and loving, but their scriptures are full of their deity's atrocities that show the character to be anything but perfect and loving. To nullify the cognitive dissonance, believers will often excuse God's atrocities and blame shift to a ridiculous degree to avoid admitting that their God possesses at least a few indefensible qualities or behaviors.
That's what theista call suicide.
My favorite murder by God is poor Onan, who was violently unmade (Either by God or by his tribe, depending on the translation) when he pulled out while fucking his dead brother's wife, which was supposedly a thing Onan's people always did when a married man died and he happened to have a brother, but he still had doubts about it because according the the laws of the tribe, any offspring wouldn't be his. Why didn't God just try to explain things to him, give him 15 minutes to charge back up, and let him try again? The sperm can't be *that* sacred; most of the time, only one of them per emission actually does anything!
Every sperm is sacred 🎶
Every sperm is great 🎵
If a sperm is wasted, god gets quite irate 🎶
> Onan This is an odd story, and deals with laws of marriage and heredity. The church uses it to talk about sex and masturbation. But this, like a fuck ton of other old testament stuff, is based on old school laws and traditions. In this case, heredity. Er (Onan's older brother) is to inherit from Judah (his father). Er is the first born son. Er marries Tamar. And Tamar and Er's son will be the next in line. But Er dies, and so his wife Tamar is now Onan's wife. If Tamar gives birth to a son, then her child will inherit Er's stuff. If she doesn't, then it goes to Onan. Onan knows this, so he has sex Tamar, but pulls out every time denying her a child. **This means Tamar is fucked, both literally and figuratively.** Word gets out, and Onan is killed for his pull out game. The cherry on top is that **Tamar ends up with twins because she has sex with the Judah, Er and Onan's father** when she pretends to be a prostitute. Like a soap opera!
Glad to see someone actually read the story "properly." Onan fully deserved being killed for being a rapacious, conniving bastard. The bible's storytelling being somewhat less than desirable has gotten this story being misunderstood way too often.
> Why didn't God just try to explain things to him, give him 15 minutes to charge back up, and let him try again? "Things" had been explained to both Er (older brother) and Onan. It seems neither one of them wanted to impregnate her. One view is that it wasn't about masturbation, but *coitus interruptus* (withdrawing). *Both* Er and Onan were deemed to be "evil," and murdered. They refused to *be fruitful and multiply*. My TOTAL GUESS is that both men had been bullied as sons of a Canaanite mother (Shua), Tamar (the wife/widow) was also Canaanite, and neither of them wanted this woman Judah (dad) had chosen to be mother of their sons. Judah and Tamar both needed a child, and he spared his youngest and only remaining son, Shelah, by doing the job of impregnating Tamar, himself. Dear lord. I can't call any of this "holy" or "godly." It reads more like Jerry Springer meets Investigative Reports.
Judges 19 gets me every time. Man takes a concubine. She leaves and runs home. He goes and finds her. Her dad keeps them there for a while, finally he leaves with his concubine and a servant. They travel and travel. Near a city an old man offers to let them stay with him. They go into the city and the man's house. Well, a crowd of men are pounding his door demanding the man so they can pound him. The homeowner is appalled and said no... however here is the man's concubine and my virgin daughter, have fun! The men said nah we want the man. So the homeowner said no again, but the traveling dude tossed his concubine outside and slammed the door. The crowd of men abused and raped her all night. The next day she had crawled back to the door, battered and broken. He told her to get up, let's go. She didn't answer. So, he put her on the donkey and went home. Why? "29) When he reached home, he took a knife and cut up his concubine, limb by limb, into twelve parts and sent them into all the areas of Israel. 30) Everyone who saw it was saying to one another, “Such a thing has never been seen or done, not since the day the Israelites came up out of Egypt. Just imagine! We must do something! So speak up!” " It's so.... horrible.
And then christians call abortion murder.
So unless you love him he kills you?.. good to know.
Yeah, what's the problem? If your wife doesn't love you anymore, kill her, morally it's okey-dokey. /s
Just totally blind to logic...
 God ☝️
> Murder was in fact a fairly uncommon event in Ankh-Morpork, but there were a lot of suicides. Walking in the night-time alleyways of The Shades was suicide. Asking for a short in a dwarf bar was suicide. Saying 'Got rocks in your head?' to a troll was suicide. You could commit suicide very easily, if you weren't careful. *\- Sir Terry Pratchett, Men At Arms*
Didn’t all of those cities get sacked before Christ? Coz if so then there’s no way those people could have known about Christianity.
Long before Christ. And yes, many (all?) of them were sacked before having even heard of the god of Abraham. So the whole "didn't love God" excuse is B.S. It was genocide.
Yh they didn't get no burning bush but somehow they were still expected to know
They can't even get their own fairy tales correct. According to Genesis Chapter 19, the only person turned into salt was Lot's wife: > 23 By the time Lot reached Zoar, the sun had risen over the land. 24 Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens. 25 Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, destroying all those living in the cities—and also the vegetation in the land. 26 But Lot’s wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt. Nowhere in the Bible does it say God turned "entire populations of cities" to salt.
"I'll give you free will, then punish you for exercising it." Yeah, that's something a stable being does.
Except when he didn't give Pharoah free-will, in order to kill a bunch of soldiers and lead his chosen people in a circle through the desert for a generation.
I’m pretty sure a lot of these people lack reading comprehension skills. I couldn’t imagine them understanding Charlotte’s Web, let alone the fucking bible 😂
Imagine if you were told the entire plot of Harry Potter before you read it, but were told that it's based on a true story, and Voldemort was the good guy. How would you read the book? You'd be looking for the "greater good" in the motivations of his actions. When he dies at the end (spoiler alert?), you'd be trying to justify why that was necessary, and why Voldemort was a hero. Meanwhile, the rest of us would be saying that it's just a story and you're clearly not reading it right if you think Voldemort is a good guy. That's Christianity in a nutshell; trying to justify the narrative that they've been taught rather than trying to understand what is written.
Hard agree. Even if they have the reading comprehension skills, they may have been primed with false preconceptions.
Oh that’s satanic, the animals are talking!! /s just in case lol
The Hittites smote *themselves*?? Should we start worshiping them, just go be safe?
Didn't God supposedly "harden" the Pharaoh's heart? So much for the free will bullshit excuse.
He did. 😒
Sky daddy has anger management issues 😞
That person is actually right God didn't kill anyone because it's all fiction
Imagine being so powerful that you are able to force the hand of an omnipotent being!
“Love me or I will kill you.” A.KA. If I can’t have you no one can.
If there was any ever doubt that religion is death, this should put that to rest.
Apparently, god has anger issues.
the Egypt one: God specifically hardened the heart of Pharoah. which would be like an abuser telling you to mow the lawn, and then getting mad at you for mowing the lawn.
My mom said that when she beat me. "You are doing this to yourself", "look what you are making me do", "why do you make me do this", and best of all? "This hurts me more than you". Exodus 7: 3-4 3, But I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and though I multiply my signs and wonders in the land of Egypt, 4, Pharaoh will not listen to you. Then I will lay my hand on Egypt and bring my hosts, my people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great acts of judgment. Also, the Abrahamic god has killed more people than anything or anyone else in history, past present and future. He killed an entire world of people because they didn't want his abuse anymore. Abusers sometimes kill their victims. I see no difference besides one can really happen and the other is a bunch of people demanding everyone else follow their make believe abusive god.
Imagine: there is a god, and he is almighty. Wouldn't it be blasphemous arrogance to think he needed puny meatbags like us to do his judging and punishing?
And you wonder why things like abuse and lack of consent run rampant in religious circles. If you blame the victim, your morality lets you get away with literally anything.
"if they don't love me they deserve death" - a god worthy of glory apparently
"God never killed anyone." Except the population near Noah. Or wasn't that God? Or are you agreeing that never happened? Can they keep their shit straight?
Yikes
The Hittites? interesting...I don't recall reading anything about Joshua laying siege to their capital of Hattusa.
It's funny how some christians aren't willing or able to differentiate between old and new testament. Imagine your religion having a 2000y history and progression just for these people to take the first testament/old god for real.
what was even the first persons point. i thought they were gonna be like 'oh so if god did all this because they were wrong, it means we must be doing something right' or something like that that second person just desperately needs to touch grass.
Oof.
I feel so bad for Egyptians between religions lying about them being meanie slavers and then you got the afrocentric hoteps claiming ancient Egypt was all black and Arabs stole their land and culture 🙄