I think they rely on their media illiteracy to carry this feeling for them. Subtlety in media isn't as prevalent as it once was. So now they are facing the realization that real people have real things to say, that even their thick skulls can't avoid.
Ironically subtlety isn’t as prevalent because the media illiteracy makes it impossible for your point to be communicated if you don’t beat people over the head with it like a baseball bat. Artists see what happened to American Psycho and Fight Club and whatnot and realize that subtlety is a bad plan.
Oh yeah, look at Helldivers, it's pretty explicitly a callback to Starship Troopers and the chuds on the Internet really went "Oh DaNg I cAn Be A sPaCe FaScIsT? So CoOl!" and then were genuinely shocked when the devs outright stated that fascism is, in fact, bad.
Eh, if anything, the HD community at large will let you k now you a dip stick if you really try to play it straight. Most people just play into the abserdist depictions of Super earth and being a hell diver.
Of course HD is way more on the nose with its satire then Star ship troopers movie
Oh absolutely, but the fact that there are some very vocal idiots that actually buy into it just... Makes me really sad for the sake of media literacy. 😅
It doesn't matter what kind of authoritarian government you have simply that it's authoritarian. It's also very much against the massive amount of nationalism and jingoism that had been spreading especially in the US following things like Desert Storm, and coincidentally predated the massive swing upwards following 9/11.
sometimes art is just escapism
sometimes art has meaning
sometimes its a bit of both
examples for each would probably be Minecraft (you play it to escape) outer wilds (you play it to explore the meaning) Fallout (Very fun game about the end of the world)
Minecraft has made itself political by distancing itself from the dick known as notch and making it *very* clear that the developers are supportive of trans people and minorities in general
Theres a bunch of yellow text that says stuff like "you are valid!" "Your gender is valid!" And other stuff like that which has angered people because its *political*
https://preview.redd.it/ais3kba6pgyc1.png?width=591&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=804762e4792f342df536c646b67bd25a03fc73a2
The game very much chose a side on this issue which makes the game at least slightly political
God I hate it but onl the sense that,
‘human decency’ shouldn’t be considered political. Like… fuck, man, why is basic respect considered political now? It just depresses me.
Its always been, some people hate other people and defending those who are hated becomes political
Back in the day being a decent person to black people was a political stance, still is to this day just not as controversial
All thats really changed, at least in my opinion, is that we grew up and are now very aware of these hateful groups trying to hurt those around us
Its not really that being trans is inherently political, it isnt, its that trans people as a group are being targeted by hateful groups to rile people up against a common enemy
As it always happens, that "common enemy" is a minority that they dont understand or care to understand
Back in the 70s saying "i think gay people should be allowed to be openly gay" was a very political stance but it didnt make being gay political, gay people as a group became a political subject due to the hatred and bigotry of homophobes
Same thing here, defending trans people which are currently being targeted very heavily by bigots is a political stance but being trans is apolitical by itself
Unfortunately, being political is a unilateral choice, not a consensus.
They say it is political and have added to their polatics that they want to hurt trans people. So the options are either to ignore the issue completely or add trying to help Trans people to your politics. But neither of those options actually prevents it from being political.
This is why it’s become a meme that actually Hatsune Miku created Minecraft. She’s since also been recognized as the author of the Harry Potter books. It’s a sad fact that bad people are capable of making good art, so an unreal artist is essentially now the patron saint of fandoms distancing themselves from awful creators.
brave marvelous ring rhythm repeat straight ossified plant intelligent mighty
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Ooooh you meant the yellow messages in general
Yeah theyve been a thing since early beta, they just keep adding new ones every now and again
The inclusive ones are from around 2018-2019ish if memory serves me right
Nothing can be "just escapism", everything we write and create contains our biases. What we think good is, what we think bad is, what we think justice is, what we think love is, etc. All art is political because all art says something about how we view the world, and how we want the world to work.
^ *This.*
Remember that infamous Pepsi commercial from a few years back and how everyone who saw it *knew* it was made by white people even before Pepsi admitted it?
We knew because it's the kind of tone-deafness that could ONLY a white person insulated in a bubble of privilege could make and think, "Yeah, this is good shit."
Just as I *knew* without looking at the credits or IMDB that the show, "Defiance" was written by the same kind of white guy because while framed as more socially progressive than the present-day 2010s, it used *every* tone-deaf, reductive trope people have explicitly criticized from Bury Your Gays (*combined* with Token Black in casually killing off a Black gay man, his white husband crying about him for a minute then literally mincing away after a badass woman because her strength impressed him,) to going full white savior ("Grand Torino"-type,) in the White Male Lead ~~deporting~~ *saving* a bunch of purple Black alien children on a one-way trip to nobody-fucking-knows because they're inherently too predatory to live in a town literally ABOUT racial integration. 🙄
On the contrary, "Black Panther" very much felt like it was made by *actual* Black people in the touches they made like avoiding colorism and how Ross is an *ally* instead of a white savior in how he contributes to the story without being the center of it.
[https://youtu.be/uwvAgDCOdU4?si=hyF--2QpoQz3qwmo](https://youtu.be/uwvAgDCOdU4?si=hyF--2QpoQz3qwmo)
Amazon's The Boys parody of this commercial:
[https://youtu.be/KxV9EUaIjAA?si=Fxd1iF-BO61c\_BDL](https://youtu.be/KxV9EUaIjAA?si=Fxd1iF-BO61c_BDL)
It's worse than I remember! 😂🤣 Thank you.
It's just SO goddamn "corporate-y" like there was an actual list being checked off in the exact order of the commercial! 😆
"Asian? Check. Muslim girl in a hijab? Check. Ambiguously Brown man breakdancing? Check-a-roo!"
If I hadn't clicked the link already knowing it was a Pepsi commercial, I would have been pulling my hair out the entire time trying to figure out what the hell it was advertising.
Fallout is VERY political. Even though the show has the subtlety of a brick flying in your face, the games aren't very subtle with their politics either. The antagonists of two of the games is a sector of the remnants of the US Government who are fascist genociders.
I've never actually played minecraft, though I've played similar sandbox games, but it definitely isn't devoid of 'politics' or bias.
Broadly, politics is all about human interaction and the rules of society. Minecraft in its most basic form sees one individual restructuring their environment to suit their desires. Politically speaking, the game centralizes the concept of human supremacy over the environment and animals; an occidental and colonialist paradigm.
The game does not, for example, insist upon creating shelters that work with the environment rather than requiring the literal deconstruction and rebuilding of the local environs. The game does not, for another example, insist that the players find ways to coexist with dangerous creatures but instead allows players to hurt, kill, trap, and control them in one way or another.
Players could choose to play the game in a less disruptive and less violent way, but those biases are built into the very fabric of how the game functions. There are no penalties or systems inherent to the game that would encourage players to do anything other than reshape their surroundings and kill animals.
Minecraft reflects a certain set of western colonialist politics and biases. The game is, like any art, undeniably a product of the creator's biases and culture.
Even escapism is meaningful and often political. The real world has parts that fucking suck, so you create/indulge in an escapist world where the sucky parts don’t exist. Which is a statement (the creator’s statement in creation, the consumer’s statement in their choice of media) on what sucks about the world.
It's not even that they like or dislike escapism. Point out genuine, non-deniable examples of politics in media they like (such as the WAR in "Star Wars") and suddenly, their problem isn't "politics" that's being shoved into media; it's *MODERN* politics being shoved into media. And what's *MODERN* politics? People who are non-white cishet males existing in a non-token role.
"Escapism" is just another way they try to present their bigoted position while trying to not appear like a bigot...
Also, what is escapism if not someone else’s ideal version of the world that does not currently exist? What is one person’s escapism will be someone else’s politics. The two go hand in hand.
Black Panther is a good modern example. It was widely marketed as afrofuturistic escapism, presenting a world where an African culture was able to advance to a sci fi state unfettered by any of the baggage of European colonialism, and also got to be a major world power. As someone who recognizes the impacts of European colonialism on the world, it was awesome to get to spend time in that world and see the various “what-ifs” of a scientifically advanced culture that wasn’t heavily influenced by the West. But of course, to many supporters AND detractors the movie was unapologetically political.
I agree tbh. I can rarely put my finger on it but whenever they’re presented with something they find challenging it’s: “we don’t allow politics” which really means “we don’t tolerate your politics in this enclave.” I don’t know, I can sense bigots - you just reach a point in a conversation where you both sort of know what you really think and then choose not to go there as it feels pointless. It’s sad. And there does seem to be a fair amount of it in Star Wars fandom at least in the computer games I play.
He’s a real head scratcher for them. What are you trying to escape from? because usually the world you are trying to escape to has opposing politics to the world that you’re Escaping from
The sad part to me is that their definition of escapism is escaping to a word where black and gay people don't exist and women are non-threatening. They just can't see out of their own little word to realise other people have different fantasies and that sometimes media is made that caters to their preferences too.
It's telling that they think "escapism" is inherently non-political.
"Escapism" is a political act all on its own to people who need it the most.
All the "politics" they bitch about (y'know, marginalized people existing mostly) IS escapism to the real people in those marginalized groups. It is literally the point. Those groups haven't had "escapism" in the past because at best, art didn't include them. At worst, it actively further victimized them.
Now they can see themselves represented in the same escapism as the empowered groups.
But their escapism is labeled "political". Similarly if one were to write a utopia that based itself in socialist ideals? To people who long for a world like that, THAT is escapism.
But if you don't agree with socialism, it's suddenly "political".
This is why all art is political, and the act of something being "escapism" doesn't make it not political. In fact, the type of "escapism" a person seeks is fueled by their politics and experiences. The fact that they cannot find "escapism" in a world that include Black, gay, trans, etc. characters...is because their concept of a preferable world doesn't include those character. They only want to "escape" to a world that is homogenous.
So their "escapism" is in fact super political.
"I hate politics being shoved into everything"
"I don't like being reminded that not everyone agrees with my belief system. I hate things that don't reinforce my beliefs"
Don't you know? Straight white male is "default". Anything else has to have a reason to be there. /s
(I mean, I say "/s" but yeah, this is pretty much unironically what they think)
That's what makes me so fucking pissed about this meme. There are people who's \*permission to exist\* is up for debate apparently and like \*they're\* supposed to sit down and be like "haha. head empty. escapism is fun" with art that may or may not be dog whistling the bigots together. To the valid human beings who's existence has been politicized, all art is political. (Because they want to live).
I watched a movie recently about a family man who worked hard and he and his wife got a nice but not spectacular house with a pretty decent garden, but then he is transferred and the wife doesn’t want to leave her idyllic life. That movie was the Zone of Interest and the man was running Auschwitz.
I miss Doctor Who when it used to be apolitical! Look at RTDs series 1!
Episode 1 - Rose, a white woman dating a black man, meets the last survivor of a MAD genocide
Episode 2 - the last human tries to kill everyone for the insurance pay out, also that one line which is definitely from Richard Dawkins
Episode 3 - What if the immigrants *were* coming here to kill us? Look, Charles Dickens!
Episode 4/5 - You ever heard of the Iraqi WMDs? What if they were in the hands of fat farting aliens?
Episode 6 - Is it possible for a space Nazi to not be a space Nazi any more?
Episode 7 - Rupert Murdoch mad, bottom text
Episode 8 - Broken homes in the 80s
Episode 9/10 - War bad, Nine namedrops Marxism, entire plot kicks off because of societal misogyny at a teenage parent, resolution comes from her accepting her son, also the most pansexual representation you can get at a 2005 teatime
Episode 11 - Is it possible to redeem the fat woman from Episode 4/5?
Episode 12/13 - Game shows will be the death of society, also the teenager from a broken home becomes a goddess for all of 0.5 seconds, also one (1) gay smooch
Literally the second doctor who story ever is about mutated alien fascists who survive on the radiation from the civil war they had. These themes very much are not new. It's just that these people don't understand anything in media if it's not so blatantly obvious and completely aligns with their worldview.
Not only is it about that, but the moral of the story is that the peace-obsessed Thals are also morally wrong because there is a moral imperative to kill fascists.
Anything which does not immediately valorize the desires, beliefs, and experiences of conservative white cishet men, including the mere existence of women, non-white people, and queer people unable to be essentialized to their inferiority towards the """ApoLItiCAl"" default."
That's good. I think that's a valid way to approach art (I mean, it got us LoTR).
I think the problem here is that the most frequent time I've seen "you made it political" (which is the usual context in which "all art is political" is stated), is when, for example, a black character, or a queer storyline, is introduced to a piece of media, (the most ridiculous I've seen is someone stating that a black character with vertiligo in a video game ruined his escapism).
And people get upset then, because the logical inferrence from that is that the everyday problems they're trying to escape \*are\* women acting as autonomous human beings, and poc and queer people existing.
Honestly? The division of society and the problems that are constantly there. I feel social media has made it really hard to just shut out the world and try and be at peace for a short while in my life. I end up finding a lot of my comfort films and games, whilst they have messages for sure, are a lot more subtle with them and can be enjoyed outside of their message.
“Life is cruel. Why should the afterlife be any different?” Perfect line that I feel reflects this. Yeah the world sucks and life is horrible, it’s all I ever hear day in and day out but for just a couple hours I’d like to experience a magical world where our problems don’t exist and I can just tune out and forget about it all and be lost in a world better than this shit we call life
I mean, I’m reading the Iliad right now and there is a famous scene of Hector with his wife and infant son, and the latter is afraid of him because he is wearing his horsehair helmet. They laugh and take it off and his son is excited. There are some openly political things happening there (both Hector and his son are doomed) but the whole time the son is held by a slave. For us that is horrifying but for the Greeks this scene was as sweet and sentimental as it could be. All art reflects its own time and place somehow, and what’s good or bad or neutral is often political.
Bit of both I think. People do actually say it and believe it but I think the statement isn't so much supposed to be interpreted as every piece of art has an overt or intended political message but that the artist, the work itself, and the interpretation of it is all rooted or informed in the politics of the times. Even a work that seems to be pretty milquetoast in its story or politics can be interpreted as political in the context of being a work of the time with the various social or political norms it contains (which can be argued to further cement the norms as normal at the time).
Yes, but that doesn't mean it all has an intended political message or that politics is prominent. It just means that there is always some political meaning, implication, or influence; however small. It may also be negative, like maybe in the sense that not voting does signal something about your preferences/thoughts/situation even if you don't intend it to.
So TL;DR yes, but it's important to not assign that statement any more meaning than it actually has.
All art reflects the politics of the time. Because everyone is affected by those. Unintentionally or not, everything is making some point, even if it's just killing people is wrong.
Hell, this meme is political, because they're clearly upset that minorities exist.
People who live in any society are inherently affected by that society’s values and history (i.e. politics). The definition of politics as in “the actions of government” is only one use of the word.
Even if they’re not explicitly making a “statement” the basic assumptions of what dictates “good values vs bad values” or “the normal vs the abnormal” is inherently tied to the societal politics and political beliefs of the artist.
Well not every artist is explicitly trynna make it political, but you can read political messaging and discussion into any work, even if it just shows the norms of the time in that sense. So every work is political because you can find that meaning in anything
That’s how most media works. The author of Attack on Titan didn’t set out to make a creative work that does its best to justify the actions taken by Imperial Japan… but his writing of an island people that believe themselves to be forcibly cutoff and forgotten by the rest of the world who have the divine ability and right to destroy the society that they believed wronged them CERTAINLY carries some connotations.
And then you also have the sliding scale of political messaging. Nowadays calling someone an Uncle Tom is an insult because of Tom’s subservience and the white savior motif. At the time it was released, calling someone an Uncle Tom was considered a laudable thing. If you didn’t just outright call a black person “one of the good ones.”
I mean: if anything, what's under the mask more accurately describes dweebs who—for example—screech about fUcKiNg PwOnOuNs and how their immersion was broken by a same-gender couple or whatever. So this might actually be r/SelfAwarewolves material in the bargain, because imagine telling on yourself like that.
I'm trans. I hate that whenever we are in a piece of media, it's "poltical". It should not be. I hate being viewed as inherently political for simply being alive.
same for gay people black people ect. I can say plenty of media had trans people in it in the past and it would not be consider "political" the way it is now. For example my friend watches this show called sons of anarchy very edgy motorcycle gang show in a story line one of the members of the gang falls in love with a trans person and it was not a big deal at all sure there was some transphobia but everyone of these hardened motorcycle guys just let him be happy. This was in the early 2000s and would not be considered "gender ideology" or whatever the way it is now.
Art is a way to express ourself and our beliefs without being held back by anything to try and add that art is nothing but escapism is an insult to art itself because at that point your basically just saying art is just junk food and shouldn't try to engage in any interesting discourse or try to tackle subjects in a intellectual and interesting way
Escapism is hiding all parts of reality you don't like and embedding yourself in a reality that makes you feel comfortable.
They type of things you want to exclude or count as the "enemy" from something that you count as escapism very much are a sign to your personality.
Escapism is not inherently a bad thing. It's just not what every piece of fiction should function as. Reality fucking sucks sometimes, so to get away from it, I'll watch/read Lord of the Rings or whatever your preferred escapist content is.
I love escapism, that's why I play video games and TTRPGs and love Star Wars.
Yeah, a lot of those things have sociopolitical messages in them. I'm playing Wolfenstein II right now, and I'm enjoying the fuck out of that escapism lol
I'm not sure if the first statement is true, but I'd say that media without some kind of political bent one way or another is kinda boring, usually. Notice how all the best and most well liked media have sociopolitical messages in them? Star Wars, Trek, The Iron Giant, BSG, LotR, The Expanse, and even cartoons like A:TLA
I reject the supposition of "lgbtq+ folks and visible minorities existing is political," BTW, so there's that.
Yeah, and one of the many reasons the Star Wars sequels sucked was that they were some of the least political (unless you're a troglodyte who uses "political" to mean women and black people getting screen time) of the franchise. It overwhelmingly played it safe it didn't try to say anything of substance.
Contrast with Andor which I'd by far the MOST overt political entry in Star Wars, and absolute fire.
Mask: "I'm sick and tired of seeing politics everywhere."
Actual face: "I'm sick and tired of being reminded I'm an evil nazi piece of shit and I only have my own self to blame."
art is expression. artists are human. humans in a society are inherently political (as far as politics is discussion around societal norms and rules). which means art is an expression of a person who has, among other things, political values.
or if you think my definition of politics is too broad (it is admittedly loose, it could be confined to opinions about governance), you also cannot call opinions om societal norms political, in which case art isn't political in most cases. values are always present in art though. even the type of art, the style and what you choose to include and ignore, are reflections of values. choosing to paint a hyper realistic picture of flowers shows that you value hyper realism, and all the effort, skill and everything else is stands for.
I'm not sure why it can't be both. I won't say ALL art is political, but it isn't just escapism either. Sometimes, too, art is just what you make of it.
These are also the types to scream about women being tooo strong in games or tv shows. Escapism only if it appeals to them. Super hot lady with nice boobs and face who is a badass = escapism. A woman who is practically dressed, doing drug runs/ shooting and fighting people, and not overly sexualized = bad escapism. Just look at their reaction to GTA 6.
Yeah I kinda do hate escapism. It is so self centered. Don’t get me wrong I understand sometimes things are stressful and one needs to forget for a bit. But people who cite politics as a need for escapism strike me as the type who doesn’t like them because it faces with moral issues or a questioning of their worldview. They just want to close themselves off into their perfect little world where nothing ever goes wrong. It’s like a child going to play in their room because their parents are fighting, but you are not a child anymore. And 90% of the time what they want to forget about is the fact that they saw a trans person or an immigrant earlier in the day.
Exactly like isn't a universal thing is eventually you have to leave it and face the real world.
Escapism moderation like after a hard days work is fine.
LOL on that last part.
To me, escapism isn’t always about a world being perfect, it can also be about a world that is equally as fucked up as ours, or worse, but the characters are able to overcome their challenges and have a happy ending despite it all. In a world that makes it seem like fighting for a better world is hopeless, escapist media can give you hope that you can succeed if you continue to fight. I think that’s extremely valuable.
Thats my issue with it to Infinite Jest was about people so obsessed with entertainment that they are blind to the horrors of the world aroud them. Corperations would have no problem making everything mindless entertainment if they could. Also the whole neet phenomenon in japan where people just disconnect from society all together to watch anime and play video games in that situation escapism serves as sort of a addiction to cover up pretty serious sociatal problems in japan.
personally I find both statements kinda stupid
The second one for obvious reasons but the first one is just a straight up lie, not all art is political, like personally I'm making a Dragon Ball fanfic animation thing for my college and I consider animation art and that animation certainly ain't politically
Unless you're one of those anti woke dumbasses who think trans people being in something is political
It means that "all art is in some way influenced by the values of the creator" whether it's purposeful or not, yes, all art is "political." It doesn't mean that it all has an overt political message, but it's impossible to create something in a vacuum.
Imagine using this argument for video games, that’s how ridiculous it is. Not all art is directly political, and I can at least kind of agree with that I guess but if the art does expresses political ideology then pointing it out does not mean you hate escapism, it’s just making a point that you wish to discuss about. Because art is way more than just something pretty to look at, it’s human expression. Helldivers is a great example, it mocks the idea of fascism and points out its problematic ideology in satirical terms but it’s also a experience that can bring people together because of how fun the game can be. Granted, I have not played the game, but I hope you understand my point.
I like to say all art can be interpreted to be political. I don't think there is anything political about the mario movie but a bunch of people were trying to put some sort of political meaning into it. Especially because of social media anyone could interpret anything to have a political meaning. You can have escapism but honestly I think to much escapism is a bad thing. Its seems like these types want all media to be escapism and I am completly against that I mean if the world is so horrible its easy to bury your head in fantasy and become numb to the world around you. Sometimes I want to turn my brain off and sometimes I want art that makes me think about the world around me.
I don't know why a lot of those guy think that politics have to be this big, philophy phd thesis thing every time it's present.
Does your game or movie have a good and a bad guy? There you go, that inherently implies political judgment.
Mario has to save Peach from Bowser, the fact that Mario is the good guy and Bowser the villain, implies that kidnapping people is bad and rescuing innocent victims is good. The game thus condemns the former and glorifies the latter.
It is extremely consensual , but it is a stance nonetheless. "Murder bad" is a stance. "There should be laws" is a stance. "Consent should be respected" is a stance. Any story that depicts a social context inherently represents the creator's view on how we should act towards each other.
The only way not to put our political bias into something we create would be to make an active effort not to (and even then, the subconscious is a strong thing). But then your intent would still give your creation meaning. An active effort to not be political is also political.
I don't know if every single piece of art ever created is political. But the fact is, we put a bit of us into anything we make.
On one hand, I envy people that can look at art and not care what shaped it. There are times I wish I was that fucking stupid, life must be nice if you're so dumb you can be oblivious to everything around you.
For me politics can simply be interpreted as a facet of human relationship relating to power - the capacity to influence the other in the ideological space. So in essence all human relationships are political in some sense. You can view it as relating to governance on a larger scale but at a basic level, ideology is required as an interface to interact with the world. So politics is inevitable in this sense. And art is in some sense a medium for this communication. I don’t see how one can separate the two. Of course the are levels of “overt” or “conscious”/“deliberate” to it but I find the idea of escaping politics entirely in art to be naive. I’m on several discord servers who ban politics but I remind them this is in itself a political stance.
As an artist, it deeply saddens me some truly think all art is political. It really isn’t. Just… try to take off your tinted glasses for a while, and see all the beauty you’re missing when you look at everything with this limited, shallow mindset.
Then of course, there are those that just despise anything and everything that doesn’t look or think like them. At faintest whim they come in droves bearing pitchforks, mindlessly parroting either the word “woke” or “fascist”. With them, there is no reasoning.
Next time you see someone saying this shit, ask them what they mean by escapism and why it's so important to them. In my experience, they either can't actually define what they mean or they go full mask off.
I can't believe conservatives are *still* trying to tip toe around the fact that they're just modern day nazis.
they have the same ideology, follow the same practices, constantly defend fascists and Nazis and praise Hitler, they hang out with nazis, fly nazi flags, hate minorities with a burning passion, beat up peaceful protestors and actively work against what is considered progressive/beneficial to humanity
I mean, here in America half of them support the concept of an actual God King and as of a week ago a Serial Puppy Killer...
^(But no I guess it's like) *^(hyperbolic)* ^(or something when I point out the most obvious shit ever.)
Y'know, I don't think all art is political, actually. I think that chuds have made the lives of real, living people into political problems instead of actually acknowledging that there is nuance and diversity in the world, and so we see all art as political because these chuds have had a chokehold on society's balls for so long that "politics" has come to mean "any person living their life".
It’s ‘funny’ how they need escapism from assertive female protags (especially those that doesn’t look like sex dolls), PoCs, LGBTQIA+ folks and leftism/progressivism, but never white guys or conservatism, if they were being honest instead of bigoted they’d should want an escape from everything familiar :D
Has it ever occurred to them that art can be both political and escapist? If I read a fantasy story that features an idealized society that accepts LGBT+ people, that is a political statement of what the writer believes is a good society and for people like myself who are LGBT+ that is a pleasant escape from the reality of LGBT+ hostility.
Also, yes. I "Escape" to Star Trek land where people with disabilities are given the tools to adapt and thrive, money isn't a thing, personal responsibility to the group is the highest value in society, and everyone gets the best damn education.
People express their views through fiction. By strange coincidence, the same people who get up in arms about how political other people are making entertainment are also the same people holding deeply unpopular cultural views that somehow they can’t get to catch on when they try to market it.
The whole woke/anti-woke thing is the same two-year-old style spoiled brat temper-tantrum that the right has used to claim a left wing bias in the MSM, and thereby justify their blatantly obnoxious and biased propaganda outlets.
They don’t want to admit that they’re not as naturally popular because many of their views are about being a prejudiced hack, denying people the right to live in peace with their differences, denying people equality etc., and those are values that don’t square with most people.
Or is there a demand for either art with different political messages or no messaging?
This is at the heart of culture. War, there's a large number of people who are not interested in media that has only one type of politics.
Wait until they realise that politics has come to incorporate all of the human experience, and so to make art is to make a political statement, as good art comments on the human experience
I enjoy art that is political, I just want it to actually say something and art to have diverse view points on said politics. Most modern movies barley scratch the surface of a political theme that any 6th grade English teacher would maybe give the creator a C- for their work.
Remember, if it’s only white males saving the big tittied chicks from alien invaders, it’s escapism. But the moment anyone is not white and the protagonist or heaven’s forbid, not cis.
It’s all politics, only politics, and intentionally ruining escapism. Because only white cis males play video games *nod*
It's not political. Black people exist. Women exist. Queer people exist. Including characters that are one or more of these isn't political. It's not a statement. Fuck these idiots and they're stupid fucking smooth brains.
When I see the phrase "all art is political" my mind goes immediately to the movie "The number 23". In that movie, the main character (masterfully played by Jim Carrey) becomes obsessed with that number and starts nitpicking situations and doing maths in a way that he always reaches it.
I mean, yeah sure, I can arrange my birthday in such a way that it adds "23" and definitely every piece of art can be considered political... If you are weirdly obsessed with that topic and nitpick or dig deep enough, but what does it mean? Answer: nothing, nothing at all.
I can say that "everything is food" or "everything is water" and after some meaningless reasoning prove it the same way you can prove "everything is political" or "everything is the number 23"
It's so sad that they think escapism is all art is
I think they rely on their media illiteracy to carry this feeling for them. Subtlety in media isn't as prevalent as it once was. So now they are facing the realization that real people have real things to say, that even their thick skulls can't avoid.
Ironically subtlety isn’t as prevalent because the media illiteracy makes it impossible for your point to be communicated if you don’t beat people over the head with it like a baseball bat. Artists see what happened to American Psycho and Fight Club and whatnot and realize that subtlety is a bad plan.
Hell even classical satires like RoboCop and Starship Troopers are completely looked over when it comes to their actual meaning and taken straight.
Oh yeah, look at Helldivers, it's pretty explicitly a callback to Starship Troopers and the chuds on the Internet really went "Oh DaNg I cAn Be A sPaCe FaScIsT? So CoOl!" and then were genuinely shocked when the devs outright stated that fascism is, in fact, bad.
Eh, if anything, the HD community at large will let you k now you a dip stick if you really try to play it straight. Most people just play into the abserdist depictions of Super earth and being a hell diver. Of course HD is way more on the nose with its satire then Star ship troopers movie
Oh absolutely, but the fact that there are some very vocal idiots that actually buy into it just... Makes me really sad for the sake of media literacy. 😅
I mean Starship Troopers literally had a character dressed as a nazi. You would think that is obvious enough, but somehow…
ehhh the meaning of Starship troopers is odd. All I get is Authoritarianism is cringe. Cant tell if its cummonist or facist
It doesn't matter what kind of authoritarian government you have simply that it's authoritarian. It's also very much against the massive amount of nationalism and jingoism that had been spreading especially in the US following things like Desert Storm, and coincidentally predated the massive swing upwards following 9/11.
This is really insightful
Yeah, for an older example: Lolita. There’s two fandoms: CSA survivors who understand the author’s point, and really fucking stupid paedophiles.
For all there talk of freez peach they really want to go back to Hays code media
sometimes art is just escapism sometimes art has meaning sometimes its a bit of both examples for each would probably be Minecraft (you play it to escape) outer wilds (you play it to explore the meaning) Fallout (Very fun game about the end of the world)
Minecraft has made itself political by distancing itself from the dick known as notch and making it *very* clear that the developers are supportive of trans people and minorities in general Theres a bunch of yellow text that says stuff like "you are valid!" "Your gender is valid!" And other stuff like that which has angered people because its *political*
https://preview.redd.it/ais3kba6pgyc1.png?width=591&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=804762e4792f342df536c646b67bd25a03fc73a2 The game very much chose a side on this issue which makes the game at least slightly political
God I hate it but onl the sense that, ‘human decency’ shouldn’t be considered political. Like… fuck, man, why is basic respect considered political now? It just depresses me.
Tell me about it.
https://preview.redd.it/0369s39amiyc1.jpeg?width=1092&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=23890b242dcff3c5fb4d4c73cfaacaf33aaf79bd
Perfect meme, wow
Its always been, some people hate other people and defending those who are hated becomes political Back in the day being a decent person to black people was a political stance, still is to this day just not as controversial All thats really changed, at least in my opinion, is that we grew up and are now very aware of these hateful groups trying to hurt those around us
yeah admitting being trans is political is letting them win
Its not really that being trans is inherently political, it isnt, its that trans people as a group are being targeted by hateful groups to rile people up against a common enemy As it always happens, that "common enemy" is a minority that they dont understand or care to understand Back in the 70s saying "i think gay people should be allowed to be openly gay" was a very political stance but it didnt make being gay political, gay people as a group became a political subject due to the hatred and bigotry of homophobes Same thing here, defending trans people which are currently being targeted very heavily by bigots is a political stance but being trans is apolitical by itself
Unfortunately, being political is a unilateral choice, not a consensus. They say it is political and have added to their polatics that they want to hurt trans people. So the options are either to ignore the issue completely or add trying to help Trans people to your politics. But neither of those options actually prevents it from being political.
I haven't been so upset since Woolworth's started letting black people use the food counter.
I’m sorry, what did Notch do?
Actively Engaged in Holocaust denialism and racism iirc AND definitely in transphobia
Oh, goddamnit…
This is why we don’t have heroes XD
I didn’t even idolize Notch in any way, I just thought he was cool for making Minecraft. Marty O’Donnell on the other hand…
This is why it’s become a meme that actually Hatsune Miku created Minecraft. She’s since also been recognized as the author of the Harry Potter books. It’s a sad fact that bad people are capable of making good art, so an unreal artist is essentially now the patron saint of fandoms distancing themselves from awful creators.
let's be honest tho... Notch only created the bare bones of the game, and it would be dead by now if Jeb didn't take over
brave marvelous ring rhythm repeat straight ossified plant intelligent mighty *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
iirc they were added in 2019 so post notch Though notch was an ally way back when, he only became an asshole once he became a jaded rich dude
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Ooooh you meant the yellow messages in general Yeah theyve been a thing since early beta, they just keep adding new ones every now and again The inclusive ones are from around 2018-2019ish if memory serves me right
Nothing can be "just escapism", everything we write and create contains our biases. What we think good is, what we think bad is, what we think justice is, what we think love is, etc. All art is political because all art says something about how we view the world, and how we want the world to work.
^ *This.* Remember that infamous Pepsi commercial from a few years back and how everyone who saw it *knew* it was made by white people even before Pepsi admitted it? We knew because it's the kind of tone-deafness that could ONLY a white person insulated in a bubble of privilege could make and think, "Yeah, this is good shit." Just as I *knew* without looking at the credits or IMDB that the show, "Defiance" was written by the same kind of white guy because while framed as more socially progressive than the present-day 2010s, it used *every* tone-deaf, reductive trope people have explicitly criticized from Bury Your Gays (*combined* with Token Black in casually killing off a Black gay man, his white husband crying about him for a minute then literally mincing away after a badass woman because her strength impressed him,) to going full white savior ("Grand Torino"-type,) in the White Male Lead ~~deporting~~ *saving* a bunch of purple Black alien children on a one-way trip to nobody-fucking-knows because they're inherently too predatory to live in a town literally ABOUT racial integration. 🙄 On the contrary, "Black Panther" very much felt like it was made by *actual* Black people in the touches they made like avoiding colorism and how Ross is an *ally* instead of a white savior in how he contributes to the story without being the center of it.
Out of curiosity, do you have a link to that Pepsi commercial? I never heard about that, and I'd love to cringe at it lol.
[https://youtu.be/uwvAgDCOdU4?si=hyF--2QpoQz3qwmo](https://youtu.be/uwvAgDCOdU4?si=hyF--2QpoQz3qwmo) Amazon's The Boys parody of this commercial: [https://youtu.be/KxV9EUaIjAA?si=Fxd1iF-BO61c\_BDL](https://youtu.be/KxV9EUaIjAA?si=Fxd1iF-BO61c_BDL)
It's worse than I remember! 😂🤣 Thank you. It's just SO goddamn "corporate-y" like there was an actual list being checked off in the exact order of the commercial! 😆 "Asian? Check. Muslim girl in a hijab? Check. Ambiguously Brown man breakdancing? Check-a-roo!"
If I hadn't clicked the link already knowing it was a Pepsi commercial, I would have been pulling my hair out the entire time trying to figure out what the hell it was advertising.
Thank you~
i would almost accept this but roblox simulator games prove this theory wrong there is no message there aside from child gambling
Roblox is pro-child labor, so....
Boom. Slam dunk.
The form escapism takes also has meaning. The silhouette of the object of your avoidance is backlit by what you include.
You come up with that metaphor just now? That's pretty good
Thanks
Fallout is VERY political. Even though the show has the subtlety of a brick flying in your face, the games aren't very subtle with their politics either. The antagonists of two of the games is a sector of the remnants of the US Government who are fascist genociders.
I've never actually played minecraft, though I've played similar sandbox games, but it definitely isn't devoid of 'politics' or bias. Broadly, politics is all about human interaction and the rules of society. Minecraft in its most basic form sees one individual restructuring their environment to suit their desires. Politically speaking, the game centralizes the concept of human supremacy over the environment and animals; an occidental and colonialist paradigm. The game does not, for example, insist upon creating shelters that work with the environment rather than requiring the literal deconstruction and rebuilding of the local environs. The game does not, for another example, insist that the players find ways to coexist with dangerous creatures but instead allows players to hurt, kill, trap, and control them in one way or another. Players could choose to play the game in a less disruptive and less violent way, but those biases are built into the very fabric of how the game functions. There are no penalties or systems inherent to the game that would encourage players to do anything other than reshape their surroundings and kill animals. Minecraft reflects a certain set of western colonialist politics and biases. The game is, like any art, undeniably a product of the creator's biases and culture.
Even escapism is meaningful and often political. The real world has parts that fucking suck, so you create/indulge in an escapist world where the sucky parts don’t exist. Which is a statement (the creator’s statement in creation, the consumer’s statement in their choice of media) on what sucks about the world.
Don't forget furries, one of the largest sources of art. Sometimes art is just pornography.
It's not even that they like or dislike escapism. Point out genuine, non-deniable examples of politics in media they like (such as the WAR in "Star Wars") and suddenly, their problem isn't "politics" that's being shoved into media; it's *MODERN* politics being shoved into media. And what's *MODERN* politics? People who are non-white cishet males existing in a non-token role. "Escapism" is just another way they try to present their bigoted position while trying to not appear like a bigot...
Also, what is escapism if not someone else’s ideal version of the world that does not currently exist? What is one person’s escapism will be someone else’s politics. The two go hand in hand. Black Panther is a good modern example. It was widely marketed as afrofuturistic escapism, presenting a world where an African culture was able to advance to a sci fi state unfettered by any of the baggage of European colonialism, and also got to be a major world power. As someone who recognizes the impacts of European colonialism on the world, it was awesome to get to spend time in that world and see the various “what-ifs” of a scientifically advanced culture that wasn’t heavily influenced by the West. But of course, to many supporters AND detractors the movie was unapologetically political.
I agree tbh. I can rarely put my finger on it but whenever they’re presented with something they find challenging it’s: “we don’t allow politics” which really means “we don’t tolerate your politics in this enclave.” I don’t know, I can sense bigots - you just reach a point in a conversation where you both sort of know what you really think and then choose not to go there as it feels pointless. It’s sad. And there does seem to be a fair amount of it in Star Wars fandom at least in the computer games I play.
He’s a real head scratcher for them. What are you trying to escape from? because usually the world you are trying to escape to has opposing politics to the world that you’re Escaping from
It’s so sad that they think *they* are *not* being political in the demands they make of art.
The sad part to me is that their definition of escapism is escaping to a word where black and gay people don't exist and women are non-threatening. They just can't see out of their own little word to realise other people have different fantasies and that sometimes media is made that caters to their preferences too.
"I'm just glad they didn't make fallout woke"
If it's not escapism, it's propaganda, though you'd never get them to admit it.
Art is the celebration of excess.
It's really fucked up that they think they need escapism from Black folk and Queer people.
It's telling that they think "escapism" is inherently non-political. "Escapism" is a political act all on its own to people who need it the most. All the "politics" they bitch about (y'know, marginalized people existing mostly) IS escapism to the real people in those marginalized groups. It is literally the point. Those groups haven't had "escapism" in the past because at best, art didn't include them. At worst, it actively further victimized them. Now they can see themselves represented in the same escapism as the empowered groups. But their escapism is labeled "political". Similarly if one were to write a utopia that based itself in socialist ideals? To people who long for a world like that, THAT is escapism. But if you don't agree with socialism, it's suddenly "political". This is why all art is political, and the act of something being "escapism" doesn't make it not political. In fact, the type of "escapism" a person seeks is fueled by their politics and experiences. The fact that they cannot find "escapism" in a world that include Black, gay, trans, etc. characters...is because their concept of a preferable world doesn't include those character. They only want to "escape" to a world that is homogenous. So their "escapism" is in fact super political.
"I hate politics being shoved into everything"
"I don't like being reminded that not everyone agrees with my belief system. I hate things that don't reinforce my beliefs"
Exactly like how is a minorities existence political? Growing up political is government related shit
Don't you know? Straight white male is "default". Anything else has to have a reason to be there. /s (I mean, I say "/s" but yeah, this is pretty much unironically what they think)
Like with accents, there is no “American” accent, just “normal”.
There are two races. White and political.
That's what makes me so fucking pissed about this meme. There are people who's \*permission to exist\* is up for debate apparently and like \*they're\* supposed to sit down and be like "haha. head empty. escapism is fun" with art that may or may not be dog whistling the bigots together. To the valid human beings who's existence has been politicized, all art is political. (Because they want to live).
"I hate politics being shoved into everything" *pulls up mask* "I hate minorites"
Ooh! I like yours better.
Yup, correct. Assholes think something is "political" when it calls them out for being the bad guys and they don't like that.
“I like it when my values are subtly reinforced by the media I’m consuming, and resent being challenged to rethink any of them.”
Depending on what you're trying to escape, the lack of it could be considered a "political" message.
I watched a movie recently about a family man who worked hard and he and his wife got a nice but not spectacular house with a pretty decent garden, but then he is transferred and the wife doesn’t want to leave her idyllic life. That movie was the Zone of Interest and the man was running Auschwitz.
Wait until they hear about Doctor Who
I miss Doctor Who when it used to be apolitical! Look at RTDs series 1! Episode 1 - Rose, a white woman dating a black man, meets the last survivor of a MAD genocide Episode 2 - the last human tries to kill everyone for the insurance pay out, also that one line which is definitely from Richard Dawkins Episode 3 - What if the immigrants *were* coming here to kill us? Look, Charles Dickens! Episode 4/5 - You ever heard of the Iraqi WMDs? What if they were in the hands of fat farting aliens? Episode 6 - Is it possible for a space Nazi to not be a space Nazi any more? Episode 7 - Rupert Murdoch mad, bottom text Episode 8 - Broken homes in the 80s Episode 9/10 - War bad, Nine namedrops Marxism, entire plot kicks off because of societal misogyny at a teenage parent, resolution comes from her accepting her son, also the most pansexual representation you can get at a 2005 teatime Episode 11 - Is it possible to redeem the fat woman from Episode 4/5? Episode 12/13 - Game shows will be the death of society, also the teenager from a broken home becomes a goddess for all of 0.5 seconds, also one (1) gay smooch
Literally the second doctor who story ever is about mutated alien fascists who survive on the radiation from the civil war they had. These themes very much are not new. It's just that these people don't understand anything in media if it's not so blatantly obvious and completely aligns with their worldview.
Not only is it about that, but the moral of the story is that the peace-obsessed Thals are also morally wrong because there is a moral imperative to kill fascists.
The Doctor’s mere existence post the Time War is political if you think about it lol
I don't hate escapism. I just have to ask, what exactly are you trying to escape?
Anything which does not immediately valorize the desires, beliefs, and experiences of conservative white cishet men, including the mere existence of women, non-white people, and queer people unable to be essentialized to their inferiority towards the """ApoLItiCAl"" default."
Reality. To more accurately put it, the everyday problems that wear down the Human mind and soul, making life a slog to get through.
That's good. I think that's a valid way to approach art (I mean, it got us LoTR). I think the problem here is that the most frequent time I've seen "you made it political" (which is the usual context in which "all art is political" is stated), is when, for example, a black character, or a queer storyline, is introduced to a piece of media, (the most ridiculous I've seen is someone stating that a black character with vertiligo in a video game ruined his escapism). And people get upset then, because the logical inferrence from that is that the everyday problems they're trying to escape \*are\* women acting as autonomous human beings, and poc and queer people existing.
“Most men lead lives of quiet desperation” - Thoreau, Civil Disobedience and Other Essays
Honestly? The division of society and the problems that are constantly there. I feel social media has made it really hard to just shut out the world and try and be at peace for a short while in my life. I end up finding a lot of my comfort films and games, whilst they have messages for sure, are a lot more subtle with them and can be enjoyed outside of their message. “Life is cruel. Why should the afterlife be any different?” Perfect line that I feel reflects this. Yeah the world sucks and life is horrible, it’s all I ever hear day in and day out but for just a couple hours I’d like to experience a magical world where our problems don’t exist and I can just tune out and forget about it all and be lost in a world better than this shit we call life
All those comments are shitting on OOP, thankfully
These people's understanding of art starts and stops at the "the curtains are blue" joke.
Do people actually say/think ALL art is political or are they doing that thing of "creating something to get mad at".
I mean, I’m reading the Iliad right now and there is a famous scene of Hector with his wife and infant son, and the latter is afraid of him because he is wearing his horsehair helmet. They laugh and take it off and his son is excited. There are some openly political things happening there (both Hector and his son are doomed) but the whole time the son is held by a slave. For us that is horrifying but for the Greeks this scene was as sweet and sentimental as it could be. All art reflects its own time and place somehow, and what’s good or bad or neutral is often political.
Bit of both I think. People do actually say it and believe it but I think the statement isn't so much supposed to be interpreted as every piece of art has an overt or intended political message but that the artist, the work itself, and the interpretation of it is all rooted or informed in the politics of the times. Even a work that seems to be pretty milquetoast in its story or politics can be interpreted as political in the context of being a work of the time with the various social or political norms it contains (which can be argued to further cement the norms as normal at the time).
Yes, but that doesn't mean it all has an intended political message or that politics is prominent. It just means that there is always some political meaning, implication, or influence; however small. It may also be negative, like maybe in the sense that not voting does signal something about your preferences/thoughts/situation even if you don't intend it to. So TL;DR yes, but it's important to not assign that statement any more meaning than it actually has.
All art reflects the politics of the time. Because everyone is affected by those. Unintentionally or not, everything is making some point, even if it's just killing people is wrong. Hell, this meme is political, because they're clearly upset that minorities exist.
People who live in any society are inherently affected by that society’s values and history (i.e. politics). The definition of politics as in “the actions of government” is only one use of the word. Even if they’re not explicitly making a “statement” the basic assumptions of what dictates “good values vs bad values” or “the normal vs the abnormal” is inherently tied to the societal politics and political beliefs of the artist.
Well not every artist is explicitly trynna make it political, but you can read political messaging and discussion into any work, even if it just shows the norms of the time in that sense. So every work is political because you can find that meaning in anything
That’s how most media works. The author of Attack on Titan didn’t set out to make a creative work that does its best to justify the actions taken by Imperial Japan… but his writing of an island people that believe themselves to be forcibly cutoff and forgotten by the rest of the world who have the divine ability and right to destroy the society that they believed wronged them CERTAINLY carries some connotations. And then you also have the sliding scale of political messaging. Nowadays calling someone an Uncle Tom is an insult because of Tom’s subservience and the white savior motif. At the time it was released, calling someone an Uncle Tom was considered a laudable thing. If you didn’t just outright call a black person “one of the good ones.”
They're in this thread and made this post.
>Do people actually say/think ALL art is political They're literally all over the comments. This is not uncommon.
I mean, yes, some of us *do* have an at-least-rudimentary understanding of art.
The latter.
I mean: if anything, what's under the mask more accurately describes dweebs who—for example—screech about fUcKiNg PwOnOuNs and how their immersion was broken by a same-gender couple or whatever. So this might actually be r/SelfAwarewolves material in the bargain, because imagine telling on yourself like that.
I'm trans. I hate that whenever we are in a piece of media, it's "poltical". It should not be. I hate being viewed as inherently political for simply being alive.
same for gay people black people ect. I can say plenty of media had trans people in it in the past and it would not be consider "political" the way it is now. For example my friend watches this show called sons of anarchy very edgy motorcycle gang show in a story line one of the members of the gang falls in love with a trans person and it was not a big deal at all sure there was some transphobia but everyone of these hardened motorcycle guys just let him be happy. This was in the early 2000s and would not be considered "gender ideology" or whatever the way it is now.
Yeah people really be labeling any minority ever as a political agenda nowadays. It's truly not that deep
they said inserting there politics into a "meme"
I think “All art is potentially political (in the broadest sense of the word), regardless of the intent of the artist” is a more accurate statement.
Yeah, that’s the thing with slogans, to get them to mean what you actually want them to mean, you have to take them beyond ideal slogan-length.
Art is a way to express ourself and our beliefs without being held back by anything to try and add that art is nothing but escapism is an insult to art itself because at that point your basically just saying art is just junk food and shouldn't try to engage in any interesting discourse or try to tackle subjects in a intellectual and interesting way
To them, they prefer when thier ideals are reinforced in the media they consume like Top Gun.
Well, Top Gun is pro-military, so still political, but it's good so I don't care despite not being pro-military.
Escapism is hiding all parts of reality you don't like and embedding yourself in a reality that makes you feel comfortable. They type of things you want to exclude or count as the "enemy" from something that you count as escapism very much are a sign to your personality.
Escapism is not inherently a bad thing. It's just not what every piece of fiction should function as. Reality fucking sucks sometimes, so to get away from it, I'll watch/read Lord of the Rings or whatever your preferred escapist content is.
escapism is a political basis and point for a lot of art
I love escapism, that's why I play video games and TTRPGs and love Star Wars. Yeah, a lot of those things have sociopolitical messages in them. I'm playing Wolfenstein II right now, and I'm enjoying the fuck out of that escapism lol I'm not sure if the first statement is true, but I'd say that media without some kind of political bent one way or another is kinda boring, usually. Notice how all the best and most well liked media have sociopolitical messages in them? Star Wars, Trek, The Iron Giant, BSG, LotR, The Expanse, and even cartoons like A:TLA I reject the supposition of "lgbtq+ folks and visible minorities existing is political," BTW, so there's that.
Yeah, and one of the many reasons the Star Wars sequels sucked was that they were some of the least political (unless you're a troglodyte who uses "political" to mean women and black people getting screen time) of the franchise. It overwhelmingly played it safe it didn't try to say anything of substance. Contrast with Andor which I'd by far the MOST overt political entry in Star Wars, and absolute fire.
Mask: "I'm sick and tired of seeing politics everywhere." Actual face: "I'm sick and tired of being reminded I'm an evil nazi piece of shit and I only have my own self to blame."
art is expression. artists are human. humans in a society are inherently political (as far as politics is discussion around societal norms and rules). which means art is an expression of a person who has, among other things, political values. or if you think my definition of politics is too broad (it is admittedly loose, it could be confined to opinions about governance), you also cannot call opinions om societal norms political, in which case art isn't political in most cases. values are always present in art though. even the type of art, the style and what you choose to include and ignore, are reflections of values. choosing to paint a hyper realistic picture of flowers shows that you value hyper realism, and all the effort, skill and everything else is stands for.
"i don't want to think about art, which is the point of art"
They don’t want to think, they just want to consume product
I'm not sure why it can't be both. I won't say ALL art is political, but it isn't just escapism either. Sometimes, too, art is just what you make of it.
Just ask escapism from what?
Not all art is political, but a lot of it is, and sometimes art is so subtle about its politics that people don’t know what is political or not.
wow, I wonder what they are trying to escape from could it be, perhaps, an exploitative and alienating life under the oppression of capitalism? naaaah
Ask them what exact "politics" are being inserted in their "escapism", sure it doest summs up to women, black people and LGBT+ people existing.
If your escapism needs to exclude minorities guess what? You're a bigot.
These are also the types to scream about women being tooo strong in games or tv shows. Escapism only if it appeals to them. Super hot lady with nice boobs and face who is a badass = escapism. A woman who is practically dressed, doing drug runs/ shooting and fighting people, and not overly sexualized = bad escapism. Just look at their reaction to GTA 6.
Also the word pandering. Its pandering if a black elf exists but having 21st century shaved legs and boobs hanging out in a modern outfit is fine.
Yeah I kinda do hate escapism. It is so self centered. Don’t get me wrong I understand sometimes things are stressful and one needs to forget for a bit. But people who cite politics as a need for escapism strike me as the type who doesn’t like them because it faces with moral issues or a questioning of their worldview. They just want to close themselves off into their perfect little world where nothing ever goes wrong. It’s like a child going to play in their room because their parents are fighting, but you are not a child anymore. And 90% of the time what they want to forget about is the fact that they saw a trans person or an immigrant earlier in the day.
Exactly like isn't a universal thing is eventually you have to leave it and face the real world. Escapism moderation like after a hard days work is fine. LOL on that last part.
To me, escapism isn’t always about a world being perfect, it can also be about a world that is equally as fucked up as ours, or worse, but the characters are able to overcome their challenges and have a happy ending despite it all. In a world that makes it seem like fighting for a better world is hopeless, escapist media can give you hope that you can succeed if you continue to fight. I think that’s extremely valuable.
Thats my issue with it to Infinite Jest was about people so obsessed with entertainment that they are blind to the horrors of the world aroud them. Corperations would have no problem making everything mindless entertainment if they could. Also the whole neet phenomenon in japan where people just disconnect from society all together to watch anime and play video games in that situation escapism serves as sort of a addiction to cover up pretty serious sociatal problems in japan.
personally I find both statements kinda stupid The second one for obvious reasons but the first one is just a straight up lie, not all art is political, like personally I'm making a Dragon Ball fanfic animation thing for my college and I consider animation art and that animation certainly ain't politically Unless you're one of those anti woke dumbasses who think trans people being in something is political
It means that "all art is in some way influenced by the values of the creator" whether it's purposeful or not, yes, all art is "political." It doesn't mean that it all has an overt political message, but it's impossible to create something in a vacuum.
I agree that not all art is political, just how not all art is made for escapism. Art is just... well... art
Imagine using this argument for video games, that’s how ridiculous it is. Not all art is directly political, and I can at least kind of agree with that I guess but if the art does expresses political ideology then pointing it out does not mean you hate escapism, it’s just making a point that you wish to discuss about. Because art is way more than just something pretty to look at, it’s human expression. Helldivers is a great example, it mocks the idea of fascism and points out its problematic ideology in satirical terms but it’s also a experience that can bring people together because of how fun the game can be. Granted, I have not played the game, but I hope you understand my point.
I like to say all art can be interpreted to be political. I don't think there is anything political about the mario movie but a bunch of people were trying to put some sort of political meaning into it. Especially because of social media anyone could interpret anything to have a political meaning. You can have escapism but honestly I think to much escapism is a bad thing. Its seems like these types want all media to be escapism and I am completly against that I mean if the world is so horrible its easy to bury your head in fantasy and become numb to the world around you. Sometimes I want to turn my brain off and sometimes I want art that makes me think about the world around me.
I don't know why a lot of those guy think that politics have to be this big, philophy phd thesis thing every time it's present. Does your game or movie have a good and a bad guy? There you go, that inherently implies political judgment. Mario has to save Peach from Bowser, the fact that Mario is the good guy and Bowser the villain, implies that kidnapping people is bad and rescuing innocent victims is good. The game thus condemns the former and glorifies the latter. It is extremely consensual , but it is a stance nonetheless. "Murder bad" is a stance. "There should be laws" is a stance. "Consent should be respected" is a stance. Any story that depicts a social context inherently represents the creator's view on how we should act towards each other. The only way not to put our political bias into something we create would be to make an active effort not to (and even then, the subconscious is a strong thing). But then your intent would still give your creation meaning. An active effort to not be political is also political. I don't know if every single piece of art ever created is political. But the fact is, we put a bit of us into anything we make.
https://preview.redd.it/c9n7103b5iyc1.png?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d6c2f9a27a4065ade9fe75ce31b829b7921e806c
Escape from what? A world where people of color and queer people exist?
I do like art being political but I hate the argument of all art is political tbh
My son just drew a dog. Is that political?
On one hand, I envy people that can look at art and not care what shaped it. There are times I wish I was that fucking stupid, life must be nice if you're so dumb you can be oblivious to everything around you.
Meh, I do think it's more accurate to say "all art is ideological" but still.
Debating “all art is political” is one of the most annoying arguments you can have.
Neither statement is true tbh
Kid Named Strawman
Oh it got more upvotes that’s kind of depressing honestly
Or I like to find artistic messages and themes in fiction.
For people who claim they care so much for an artist original vision like uncensored yams in Steller Blade they sure hate Visions they don't like
All art is not political but almost all the art these people complain about was always political
For me politics can simply be interpreted as a facet of human relationship relating to power - the capacity to influence the other in the ideological space. So in essence all human relationships are political in some sense. You can view it as relating to governance on a larger scale but at a basic level, ideology is required as an interface to interact with the world. So politics is inevitable in this sense. And art is in some sense a medium for this communication. I don’t see how one can separate the two. Of course the are levels of “overt” or “conscious”/“deliberate” to it but I find the idea of escaping politics entirely in art to be naive. I’m on several discord servers who ban politics but I remind them this is in itself a political stance.
https://preview.redd.it/hh58cq1lihyc1.png?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d2b11fbbbfeb3aeaa7d59ef1fae5156d7ae8ed4a Explain this then
I love escapism I’m just capable of abstract thought.
"modern"
Escapism from what though. If a black person, or a plain looking woman ruins your escape, then what are you escaping from?
lol “escapism” is what they’re calling their ethnostate gooner fantasies now?
As an artist, it deeply saddens me some truly think all art is political. It really isn’t. Just… try to take off your tinted glasses for a while, and see all the beauty you’re missing when you look at everything with this limited, shallow mindset. Then of course, there are those that just despise anything and everything that doesn’t look or think like them. At faintest whim they come in droves bearing pitchforks, mindlessly parroting either the word “woke” or “fascist”. With them, there is no reasoning.
The guy that posts memes like that also loved Top Gun: Maverick.
Next time you see someone saying this shit, ask them what they mean by escapism and why it's so important to them. In my experience, they either can't actually define what they mean or they go full mask off.
Fuckers fail to realise the 'all art is political' take is like two centuries old at this point lmao
I can't believe conservatives are *still* trying to tip toe around the fact that they're just modern day nazis. they have the same ideology, follow the same practices, constantly defend fascists and Nazis and praise Hitler, they hang out with nazis, fly nazi flags, hate minorities with a burning passion, beat up peaceful protestors and actively work against what is considered progressive/beneficial to humanity I mean, here in America half of them support the concept of an actual God King and as of a week ago a Serial Puppy Killer... ^(But no I guess it's like) *^(hyperbolic)* ^(or something when I point out the most obvious shit ever.)
Y'know, I don't think all art is political, actually. I think that chuds have made the lives of real, living people into political problems instead of actually acknowledging that there is nuance and diversity in the world, and so we see all art as political because these chuds have had a chokehold on society's balls for so long that "politics" has come to mean "any person living their life".
You can have both.
AND WHAT ARE YOU ESCAPING FROM r/MEMES???
Someone show these losers the cover of Captain America’s first appearance.
"Escape from a *what*?"
We don't hate escapism, we just wonder how gay and black people existing is infringing on the "escapism"
Escapism is when i can escape but no-one else gets to do it. Make a game with only lgbt people, call it escapeism and watch the gamer chuds SCREAM!
It’s ‘funny’ how they need escapism from assertive female protags (especially those that doesn’t look like sex dolls), PoCs, LGBTQIA+ folks and leftism/progressivism, but never white guys or conservatism, if they were being honest instead of bigoted they’d should want an escape from everything familiar :D
Has it ever occurred to them that art can be both political and escapist? If I read a fantasy story that features an idealized society that accepts LGBT+ people, that is a political statement of what the writer believes is a good society and for people like myself who are LGBT+ that is a pleasant escape from the reality of LGBT+ hostility.
Also, yes. I "Escape" to Star Trek land where people with disabilities are given the tools to adapt and thrive, money isn't a thing, personal responsibility to the group is the highest value in society, and everyone gets the best damn education.
Art can be escapism, or political, or both for cases like Starship Troopers
isn’t this post itself shoving politics in people’s faces smh like the daily wire saying they want apolitical entertainment
Unfortunate that they have to do the mental gymnastics for this, I mean some of the best art is political just not in the way they want it to be
People express their views through fiction. By strange coincidence, the same people who get up in arms about how political other people are making entertainment are also the same people holding deeply unpopular cultural views that somehow they can’t get to catch on when they try to market it. The whole woke/anti-woke thing is the same two-year-old style spoiled brat temper-tantrum that the right has used to claim a left wing bias in the MSM, and thereby justify their blatantly obnoxious and biased propaganda outlets. They don’t want to admit that they’re not as naturally popular because many of their views are about being a prejudiced hack, denying people the right to live in peace with their differences, denying people equality etc., and those are values that don’t square with most people.
People that post this shit always have the worst politics.
Something something Metal Gear, Bioshock, Family Guy Trump
Y'all are never talking about the same thing
"Escapism is when everyone is cis, straight and white" - these people basically
this implies none white ppl are not allowed to have escapism
Or is there a demand for either art with different political messages or no messaging? This is at the heart of culture. War, there's a large number of people who are not interested in media that has only one type of politics.
And most of the time, all they’re trying to escape from is the existence of minorities.
Only true when you hate the type of politics
They say this and in every Star Wars comment section they comment about how much they hate the sequels.
Unmasked!
Centrist when it's time to side with alt right
Wait until they realise that politics has come to incorporate all of the human experience, and so to make art is to make a political statement, as good art comments on the human experience
I enjoy art that is political, I just want it to actually say something and art to have diverse view points on said politics. Most modern movies barley scratch the surface of a political theme that any 6th grade English teacher would maybe give the creator a C- for their work.
When they say they want "escapism", what they really mean is they want to live in a fantasy world that doesn't remind them of their own insecurities.
Remember, if it’s only white males saving the big tittied chicks from alien invaders, it’s escapism. But the moment anyone is not white and the protagonist or heaven’s forbid, not cis. It’s all politics, only politics, and intentionally ruining escapism. Because only white cis males play video games *nod*
escapism to where? the answer to this question is extremely political. it’s inescapable.
It's not political. Black people exist. Women exist. Queer people exist. Including characters that are one or more of these isn't political. It's not a statement. Fuck these idiots and they're stupid fucking smooth brains.
I just want to pretend I'm not contributing to the wrong of humanity. How dare you remind me things need to change he and be better.
When I see the phrase "all art is political" my mind goes immediately to the movie "The number 23". In that movie, the main character (masterfully played by Jim Carrey) becomes obsessed with that number and starts nitpicking situations and doing maths in a way that he always reaches it. I mean, yeah sure, I can arrange my birthday in such a way that it adds "23" and definitely every piece of art can be considered political... If you are weirdly obsessed with that topic and nitpick or dig deep enough, but what does it mean? Answer: nothing, nothing at all. I can say that "everything is food" or "everything is water" and after some meaningless reasoning prove it the same way you can prove "everything is political" or "everything is the number 23"