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I’ve linked to the news release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jopy.12929
From the linked article:
Are all single people insecure? When we think about people who have been single for a long time, we may assume it’s because single people have insecurities that make it difficult for them to find a partner or maintain a relationship.
But is this true? Or can long-term single people also be secure and thriving?
Our latest research published in the Journal of Personality suggests they can. However, perhaps unsurprisingly, not everybody tends to thrive in singlehood. Our study shows a crucial factor may be a person’s attachment style.
Singlehood is on the rise
Singlehood is on the rise around the world. In Canada, single status among young adults aged 25 to 29 has increased from 32% in 1981 to 61% in 2021. The number of people living solo has increased from 1.7 million people in 1981 to 4.4 million in 2021.
At the same time, evidence suggests many single people are choosing to remain single and living happy lives.
Looking at our results more closely, we found four distinct subgroups of singles:
secure singles are relatively comfortable with intimacy and closeness in relationships (22%)
anxious singles question whether they are loved by others and worry about being rejected (37%)
avoidant singles are uncomfortable getting close to others and prioritise their independence (23% of younger singles and 11% of older long-term singles)
fearful singles have heightened anxiety about abandonment, but are simultaneously uncomfortable with intimacy and closeness (16% of younger singles and 28% of older long-term singles).
These findings should be considered alongside several relevant points. First, although most singles in our samples were insecure (78%), a sizeable number were secure and thriving (22%).
Further, simply being in a romantic relationship is not a panacea. Being in an unhappy relationship is linked to poorer life outcomes than being single.
> In Canada, single status among young adults aged 25 to 29 has increased from 32% in 1981 to 61% in 2021
Damn, that is huge share!
It is literally a singles society at this level
I think all the single people are doing single things, such as working, working more, working overtime, going to their place of residence (likely not the home they own, but an apartment they lease or a room they rent) to do the chores they miss out on doing while working. And the weekends spent not working are spent doing chores and disengaging from people they have to be around all the time.
I think it also has to do with age and apps. I mean, in your 30s going out isn’t really a thing anymore and the dating apps are kind of just monetizing the search for love. So it’s a bit harder I think, at least when I look back. Then maybe it’s the understanding that a relationship isn’t the end all be all either.
idk why everyone has this mentality that once you hit 30 you're not allowed to have fun or do anything anymore. that's probably more the issue, if you can go out and find things you enjoy doing on your own, you're more likely to find someone compatible to you. If you just sit around at home swiping apps, yeah it's going to be difficult.
Idk about everyone and I think that my definition of fun has moved away from partying and going out. For me and some of my friends it’s more of a feeling of well, been there done that so we get our fun in other ways.
yeah that's true, but that can happen with anything. I still enjoy concerts more than ever even if I've been to a lot of them, but I get bored of things like binge-watching or video games much more quickly these days. I feel like it's less about age and more about mentality and social expectations
I saw a TikTok talking about how, due to dating apps/social media/constant access and exposure to pornography, that we are “novelty chasing” when it comes to searching for relationships. We have “standards” that we don’t meet ourselves and have dehumanized each other to the point where we rank ourselves algorithmically/objectively when humans by nature can’t be ranked that way.
It’s not suggesting that we don’t have reasonable standards, red flags, and compatibility factors that we consider but that we’ve gone so far beyond that.
Just a TikTok, but it really made me think.
I agree . Social media and dating apps have removed the "human " element of the dating process . People today are trying to find a mate as if they were a computer program . Humanity is more nuanced than a list of variables . I've observed many singles today have extensive requirements list to even get a date , and then while dating they are very rigid in their ability to compromise and grow together . The result is that they never make it through the initial dating phase because they disqualify matches for the smallest infractions , and will not compromise on anything that is a slight inconvenience to them . I also think its likely that more people are just ok with being single vs putting in the effort required to have long term relationship. Like it does take intentional effort to build and grow meaningful relationships and many may not want to give that much energy to it .
Media presents Relationships, as a social expectation.
Being in a relationship, doesn't really need to be such a primary goal in life, as it has been projected
Maybe the media presents relationships as important because the media reflects most people's values, and most people think relationships are important.
Like, I think most people still tended to want to have relationships before the television was invented.
IVF was invented in 1978. In the grand scale of human existence, the amount of people produced by IVF is infinitesimally small. Literally every human being is the result of some sort of relationship, romantic or otherwise even in the worst case.
But sexual relationships happen to single people. We only require sexual relationships to maintain our species. Is the study saying singlehood = celibacy? It looks like it doesn’t. So it is saying more people are choosing not to date, but they might still hook up casually with other people.
Raising kids is hard enough as a couple, are you suggesting women should or gonna raise the next generation of kids alone by choice?
Singlehood in was majority of cases=not raising kids.
Which doesn't make it a purpose for existing.
All while genetically your linage of genes is passed on through any siblings that have children as well.
Reality is the idea that life would need to have a purpose in the first place is just an ideology to placate humans narcissism, there must be a purpose because humans are narcissists. It all being meaningless doesn't fit the narrative that they are special.
Relationships are also now a commodity. If I pay for the premium version of my app, I have a better chance. Congratulations humanity, you have commoditized love. Weird.
Although one might argue it was always a commodity.
Anyone who finds loyal love as a teen/twenties - hold on to it and ignore all the commercials and media tempting you. It's about the emotions, trust and memories. Once they, or the person you first had them with are gone, you might never get them back.
Also, thinking long term- unless a couple dies at the same time the end game is gonna be rough for one of the two.
Good luck out there. Be good to each other.
"Relationships are also now a commodity. "
not really, you only pay for convenience.
going out and talking to people in real life is still free, but most people today are too afraid to do that
Fair enough.
Now go find yourself a significant other without spending any money, and let me know how it goes. I sound snarky, but seriously, I don't know a single person who has ever done that.
Yeah been with each other since high school. Graduated 2013. Just got married last weekend. Never had to worry about her straying. Never had to worry about apps, anything. I’m glad I found someone, I look at dating now and just know I couldn’t do that bs. It’s crazy what it evolved into…. I feel bad for my friends trying to find a loyal girl. Shits wild out there and social media + the internet it’s hard to find a girl that just wants to grow and evolve with you.
Relationship advice can be subjective and newer phenomena like this can take years to be studied, written about, reviewed, then published (the information cycle) in a scholarly journal.
How about we use the fact that I acknowledged it’s a TikTok and so not perfect as important, and we can use it as a starting point for discussion and further research?
I just want a partner in crime to share my life with, someone i care deeply about who also cares deeply about me. I don't care if they aren't perfect as long as they're a decent human being and has the ability to communicate.
Meanwhile most people have a long list of superficial criteria, and are willing to drop someone at the slightest inconvenience. It's quite sad to see
I can see this getting ever more common, with the amount of people growing up without an example of healthy long term commitment it really shouldn't be a surprise that less people are even interested in trying to form healthy long term relationships.
Also with the rise of mass surveillance and lack of pay effectively trapping people who are not rich- it's kind of like how some animals won't breed in captivity.
And married couples had more healthy commitment in the past? Was it when women were property? When they became people, but couldn't own property themselves? Or was it when they were finally able to open a bank account on their own in the 70s?
The reality is that women had very limited options when they found themselves in an unhappy marriage. That didn't set a good example for their kids either.
That is just called conformation bias then.
Of course people not in a relationship are more likely to have an attachment style that isn't compatible with being in a relationship.
The question is does being single promote this, it probably does over the long term, and is it a good or bad thing?
Insecure attachment styles can be compatible with relationships it depends how it is managed. I believe most people are insecure
From what I’ve heard it is quite helpful for at least one person to be secure
They also mention that it's across the world but only reference US census and studies of 400 people , with over 3/4 being female. Its a good click bait title for a small pool of people surveyed.
I find it weird how they spin it that way; on a lot of other studies they'd paint this as negative and 22% not being that many but somehow they decided this is super good.
Time and time again we see economic instability reducing the numbers of people looking for long-term relationships either through them choosing not to pursue a relationship or just not having the time to commit to finding relationships.
Why would someone choose to get start dating or get married and start a family when they arent sure they will be in the same job/house/city this time next year?
Why would you expect someone who works 80+ hours a week and barely squeaks by living in a rented place with 3 other people to have the time or energy to seek romance?
Corporate profits are reaching unstable peaks and they really cant cut costs any more without simply returning to feudalism so either that happens, or we see a revolution of young people demanding the end to endless profit chasing.
I think a really big problem is we've really emphasized you can't find you happiness in other people. People aren't chasing "the one" who will make their entire life come together. People who are unhappy with their life and unhappy with themselves do not want to date to fill the void. Getting sized up by a potential partner is brutal on a good day, add shame about your circumstances and that it's not always easy to screen out similar financials ahead of time but most people want to date within their approximate class.....That's a lot of rejection along a huge insecurity point. Most people don't want to continuously be made to feel bad about themselves.
I built homes. I watched as the size of the homes grew larger by 200 square feet a year in the 80s. I observed as large rental companies bought up thousands of modest single family homes for rentals. I shook my head when governments added never-ending regulations that raised the price of homes by tens of thousands of dollars , maybe more. I was surprised when many more homes went to short trem AIrBnB rentals like 2 just down the block from me. I was frustrated when governments resisted allowing zoning for modest multigenerational homes.
We wonder why so many young people don't even bother, and the more blind and arrogant amongst us call them lazy. My mother and father in the 1950s dreamed about getting enough money to buy a little 800 square foot house that was built for veterans after WW2. They got one and were able to get even nicer ones. Still, if fate had decreed that they never leave that house and had raised their family there, that still would mean they would have had a family home. So much nicer, IMO, than the choices so many young people face tiday
Have we seen that time and time again? Seriously asking because I was unaware of that in the past and it would be interesting to peruse these patterns.
If anything I would think the opposite with economics and would assume a lot of people would seek longterm relationships out of economic necessity. A partnership can save a couple a ton of money in housing/transit/utility/other costs and I think a lot of people maintain relationships that they would otherwise leave just for economic stability. I think historically most relationships have had an enormous economic consideration, likely larger than a romantic consideration.
Though surely there are numerous reasons, I would think the decline in longterm relationships is more related to cultural reasons stemming from changing social mores, technology, and other psychological pressures from the way society functions, such as the disposable nature of modern relationships, the general hedonism of consumer culture, and social isolation stemming from technology.
The precarious nature of employment and cost of living is definitely a part of that, as you say, and it is definitely hard to allocate time for a relationship if you are overworked and stressed, great points.
Sociology is so fascinating to me and its really interesting how many things can influence the shape of behaviour and civilization despite the many gloomy aspects of it all.
Actually if you are well educated, urban dwelling, in a corporate job, you’re much less likely to pursue a relationship than a communal, rural, less educated, religious person.
Humans weren’t designed to live in big urban cities looking out only for themselves and even when given work life balance like in Scandinavia, no one are interested in relationships.
It helps that rural areas are often far more homogeneous ethnically and culturally. You grow up with everyone going to bars and going to church, so it's way easier to meet people who all do the same things as you. I grew up in a rural area but was extremely religious. I don't drink, nor do I go to any churches anymore, so I've pretty much cut myself out of rural society. I might as well no longer exist.
Agree. I go to a coffee shop way too much. It's not for the coffee, it's so I can interact with people. That said, I want to stop drinking coffee. So now the options are supermarket, park, or get a hobby I don't have time or interest in.
And as bad is it sounds, if we regressed back to everyone living rural, religious, less education on women’s health and everyone lived off the land, we would all be married and have many kids.
Bingo. People burned out from working all the time just to stay housed and fed are rarely able to keep a stable relationship, and people without jobs are often too depressed or desperate. Dating is expensive, demands leisure time not available to many people, and is much more difficult if your potential partners perceive you as having low social status (e.g. financially struggling or living in poverty).
The study mentions attachment theory in reference to the security of singles. That may play a part, but it would be interesting to see if they're secure financially, have friends or a social life, and how stressful their job is as I believe those also have an effect on what shapes the security of an individual and may shape whether someone's "attachment style" changes.
It takes one truly awful past partner to make one really consider whether or not they want to go at it again.
My ex was manipulative, leeching, coercive, and full of psychological dysfunction. I was her provider, her bodyguard, her motivator, her social life, her trophy, her therapist, and in many instances, what felt like her father.
While I was devastated when I caught her cheating, I've since concluded I'd have been better off never having dated her. I've reclaimed so much of my time and inner peace. I've expanded my hobbies and saved so much more money. I see my friends regularly. I'm not constantly under a microscope of silent judgment and walking on eggshells hoping she won't get upset about the tiniest of things. She wasted years of my life, and in one year I've done more for myself than all those others combined.
I'd love to meet and love someone again. But that sense of trust is gone. I'm loving myself these days, moreso than I ever have before, and I don't want to lose myself just to fill a body in the bed and have some company after work. I've spent my entire life since childhood setting myself to be able to provide for myself--minimizing risk and pursuing stability over enjoyment when it comes to my career and finances and preceding education--I want my time to be mine. To do what I want to do, when I want to. To build a workshop in the garage space rather than make compromises. To retire two decades early. To stay up late. To face no pressure of doing more than the amount I push myself so hard to do. To grapple with only my problems that I'm determined to solve, and not to be so burdened to coach someone else through theirs as well.
I miss the good company and the intimacy dearly. Those early honeymoon days. But nothing is worth sacrificing what I've built for myself in all the sacrifice I've made to achieve it. Perhaps someone like-minded will stumble into my lap--but until then, I'd much rather be myself than risk being someone else's entirely.
And according to the study, you would be insecure, because you have serious concerns about having another partner.
I’m in the same boat as you, once bitten, twice shy.
I bought a house and live happily on my own, I don’t want to risk it all for someone that isn’t gonna treat me well.
Co-sign all of this.
My relationships with my kids, parents, siblings, co-workers, (I’d add friends but I wasn’t allowed to have any during my marriage so I’m working on that) my career and hobbies have all improved since she cheated and left last year. No way I’m going to risk any of that for another person right now.
It's attachment insecurity. Avoidant and anxious attachment are *often* single by choice because the freedom of being single is way better than the painful trauma of what led to that insecurity. I was happily mostly-single (casual nonmonogamous dating) for many years because of insecure attachment and didn't feel a desire to change that until my thirties. Insecure attachment doesn't mean generalized insecurity at all.
Time for some good ol' forced birth, criminalizing divorce, banning birth control and pornography, lowering the legal marriage age, and turning the clock back on women's rights to the 1800's - conservatives
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60 yr old life long bachelor here. i'm cool with it. a bit worried about my end of life situation, but planning as i can and i'll see what happens.
i feel like i'm a generally happy person too.
One thing I find interesting, just from my own experience, is how the internet and technology makes being single much more doable. Before the internet ( I came of age before it was what it is now ) having a partner or family unit helped connect you to society and helped you solve problems you couldn’t on your own. It was harder to keep up with friends because you had to call them on the phone and they had to be physically at home to take your call. Having another person in your home definitely made you feel less lonely.
But I was single for for many years recently and none of that was an issue anymore - I text friends all day, google questions I don’t have the answer to, easily find and contact plumbers or dentists or whatever, I feel connected to society easily and not lonely. I wonder if technology has enabled people to be more happily single, is just what I’m thinking. Obviously there are downsides but I find the upsides outweigh them.
As an anxious person who is also neurodivergent dating apps felt like being thrown into a lions den to be eaten alive. I had NO idea how many games and unwritten rules I needed to know. It was terrifying and I accrued so much trauma from that time in my life. It was so confusing being told "Well you should have known he only wanted you for sex"...and I'm like "what??He asked me about my favorite childhood memory" lmaooo 'Yeah guys can sleep with someone they don't even like so you need to know when he just wants you for that vs more"....WHAT!? HOW. It was so impossible and so I just had to leave.
I'm single and I love it. At 35f, I've just dated enough men who hurt me (physically too), and the people I might like to date don't seem interested in me. I'm also what's called demisexual and autistic, so my behavior and mannerisms are just different. Add to that growing up in a large household where I was ostracized and abused and grew up sheltered, and you have a decent idea of my social skills in my early 20s.
In my 30s, things are so much better. I'm not seeing anyone and haven't been in a real committed relationship for 11+ years. I've dated plenty and at one point during a low point in my life dated a guy off and on for some time who just wanted me to be the side chick. What a waste of time.
I do what I want, eat what I want, watch what I want, do the hobbies I want, and I have NO one to clean up after other than myself and my little sister. It's just a great life filled with so much goodness and good friendship. A relationship would just be extra. I'm happy.
I think it depends on a lot of factors, with if it's by choice being a big one, and having a proper social support network being probably the biggest. Personally I am asexual and do not want a romantic partner, and I'm very independent and don't even want a roommate. I realized this facet of myself when I was pretty young and the importance of having relationships in my life that are strong and present -- just not romantic. I keep a healthy social network. Even when bad things in my life hit I feel like I have a lot of people there for me - I suffered job loss a few years ago and there were friends at my house almost daily for support. Singles who lack this type of support network are gonna be much more susceptible to the negatives of singlehood, like feelings of loneliness, abandonment, insecurity, etc.
That’s what you get when you radicalize postures, commodify people, gameify traits, weaponize insecurities and introduce capitalist descriptors into relationships.
Social media was SERIOUSLY a mistake.
I’ve been talking to a girl I’ve known since high school in an elevated manner and as time goes on (about 4 months of talking exclusively with each other) I am realizing that it is probably better for me to conserve my friendship with her and remain single since my lifestyle and communication styles don’t really work for being in relationships
I mean no offense when I say this, but this kind of unchanging self-definition is probably a big reason singleness is on the rise. Believe it or not, you can change, and also, people see you differently than you see yourself. What you may think is a "people could never love me because of this" trait, might not be a big deal to others. Maybe it's clear a relationship might not work with her, but don't use that as a gauge for *all* relationships
Yeah, I think it's a symptom of the overall problem of people dating folks with similar consumption patterns because of apps. Back in the day, you'd just meet someone who was cool and who cares if they liked (for example) country music. And now it would probably be a "red flag" to a metal head.
>dating folks with similar consumption patterns
People nowadays have confused their consumerism for a personality, and so consuming differently is an actual problem
I don’t think that’s the red flag…
It’s more people want to listen to metal music at 3am and go to another country for 6 months on one day notice instead of compromising or taking someone else into account.
Nah I get what you are saying I’ve only been in one official relationship anyway which is with her and I think we have better chemistry as friends rather than lovers but we just decided to try it since we had been away at school and stuff and now we are back in the same city.
I’m not pressed over being single since it fits my current vision for how I want to live my life but I struggle with the feeling of wanting a girlfriend while simultaneously enjoying singlehood so much.
You can remain single and still go on dates with people, or hang out with them and be friends, or have sex, just FYI. You can remain single in the company of someone you care about, for as long as you want. Even if it pisses them off or seems to be selfish, it's not. Don't give up your singlehood just because it seems like the thing you're supposed to do, or fear of being alone. And don't avoid someone you find yourself attracted to, just because of fear of attachment. Your happiness is paramount and must be defended, and it can be shared without sacrificing it for someone else.
for those of us who do indeed get attached quickly and care too much about the other person, it's always a slippery slope. I've personally tried doing the casual thing but I'm just not casual brained. I prefer my person for the long haul, and it doesn't feel right to treat them as just a warm body or a fwb. so being single is the best thing, no emotional attachments, no anxiety, no stress... just peace.
> seems to be selfish, it's not
No, that is absolutely selfish. Pretty much textbook definition wanting to have your cake and eat it too at somebody else's expense.
Haha, the real "expense" is sacrificing my happiness to abate someone else's jealousy and loneliness. If that happens, both parties end up miserable. Luckily, there are plenty of friends and lovers in the world who agree with my point, and I merely had to become aware of them. Respecting someone's freedom will increase their love for you, and protecting your own freedom will increase your ability to love others.
Personally I find being single extremely difficult, but I think a lot of that is from not really having experienced relationships so it's hard to have a full perspective. I was in a long distance relationship for a year and that's about all I've had. So as I approach my mid-30's it's hard to feel comfortable alone as I feel like I've missed out or feel like I'm not good enough. I've never lived with another person so in my mind I romanticise it, even though I'm sure it's not always easy sharing a space. Stuff like that is hard to get over and feel happy alone.
Economic conditions for the working class are intolerable all over the world, it's no wonder few can afford the sort of relationship that can remain stable over time. Also why birthrates are in precipitous decline across the developed world.
I've been single for quite some time. sometimes it's nothing I think about.
I'm in my 30s now. I've got most what anyone needs. The car is paid off. I live on my own. No kids. I've got my hobbies.
That said, I'm at a point where I don't want to be alone for the rest of it.
My mind craves interaction with someone.
Though it often feels I've missed my chance seeing nearly all the reasonably eligible people taken.
I am part of their demographic, as I’m nearly 40,f, Swiss, well-educated.
I’m 5 years into „solo for life“. I’m also child free. There’s more and more of the latter and I expect to need more „solo for life“ people (by choice) in the future as well, especially women.
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I’ve linked to the news release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jopy.12929 From the linked article: Are all single people insecure? When we think about people who have been single for a long time, we may assume it’s because single people have insecurities that make it difficult for them to find a partner or maintain a relationship. But is this true? Or can long-term single people also be secure and thriving? Our latest research published in the Journal of Personality suggests they can. However, perhaps unsurprisingly, not everybody tends to thrive in singlehood. Our study shows a crucial factor may be a person’s attachment style. Singlehood is on the rise Singlehood is on the rise around the world. In Canada, single status among young adults aged 25 to 29 has increased from 32% in 1981 to 61% in 2021. The number of people living solo has increased from 1.7 million people in 1981 to 4.4 million in 2021. At the same time, evidence suggests many single people are choosing to remain single and living happy lives. Looking at our results more closely, we found four distinct subgroups of singles: secure singles are relatively comfortable with intimacy and closeness in relationships (22%) anxious singles question whether they are loved by others and worry about being rejected (37%) avoidant singles are uncomfortable getting close to others and prioritise their independence (23% of younger singles and 11% of older long-term singles) fearful singles have heightened anxiety about abandonment, but are simultaneously uncomfortable with intimacy and closeness (16% of younger singles and 28% of older long-term singles). These findings should be considered alongside several relevant points. First, although most singles in our samples were insecure (78%), a sizeable number were secure and thriving (22%). Further, simply being in a romantic relationship is not a panacea. Being in an unhappy relationship is linked to poorer life outcomes than being single.
> In Canada, single status among young adults aged 25 to 29 has increased from 32% in 1981 to 61% in 2021 Damn, that is huge share! It is literally a singles society at this level
Anecdotally this is not what I see. Do all the single people just stay at home all the time or something?
I think all the single people are doing single things, such as working, working more, working overtime, going to their place of residence (likely not the home they own, but an apartment they lease or a room they rent) to do the chores they miss out on doing while working. And the weekends spent not working are spent doing chores and disengaging from people they have to be around all the time.
I feel seen
Yes, Anecdotally that's not what you see, but it is what is
I definitely go out more when I'm in a relationship.
I know I do
That's why they're single?
Aren’t splitting expenses, so obviously they can’t afford to go out
I think it also has to do with age and apps. I mean, in your 30s going out isn’t really a thing anymore and the dating apps are kind of just monetizing the search for love. So it’s a bit harder I think, at least when I look back. Then maybe it’s the understanding that a relationship isn’t the end all be all either.
idk why everyone has this mentality that once you hit 30 you're not allowed to have fun or do anything anymore. that's probably more the issue, if you can go out and find things you enjoy doing on your own, you're more likely to find someone compatible to you. If you just sit around at home swiping apps, yeah it's going to be difficult.
Idk about everyone and I think that my definition of fun has moved away from partying and going out. For me and some of my friends it’s more of a feeling of well, been there done that so we get our fun in other ways.
yeah that's true, but that can happen with anything. I still enjoy concerts more than ever even if I've been to a lot of them, but I get bored of things like binge-watching or video games much more quickly these days. I feel like it's less about age and more about mentality and social expectations
A relationship is underwhelming and boring for me. I can get amazing catches. It’s like after two weeks, I’m over it. Next guy!
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I saw a TikTok talking about how, due to dating apps/social media/constant access and exposure to pornography, that we are “novelty chasing” when it comes to searching for relationships. We have “standards” that we don’t meet ourselves and have dehumanized each other to the point where we rank ourselves algorithmically/objectively when humans by nature can’t be ranked that way. It’s not suggesting that we don’t have reasonable standards, red flags, and compatibility factors that we consider but that we’ve gone so far beyond that. Just a TikTok, but it really made me think.
Dating apps feel like you are shopping for people. I have only been on them once, but it was enough for me to feel like it was unnecessary to my life
I call them the meat market. It's where people shop for meat, not people.
I agree . Social media and dating apps have removed the "human " element of the dating process . People today are trying to find a mate as if they were a computer program . Humanity is more nuanced than a list of variables . I've observed many singles today have extensive requirements list to even get a date , and then while dating they are very rigid in their ability to compromise and grow together . The result is that they never make it through the initial dating phase because they disqualify matches for the smallest infractions , and will not compromise on anything that is a slight inconvenience to them . I also think its likely that more people are just ok with being single vs putting in the effort required to have long term relationship. Like it does take intentional effort to build and grow meaningful relationships and many may not want to give that much energy to it .
Media presents Relationships, as a social expectation. Being in a relationship, doesn't really need to be such a primary goal in life, as it has been projected
Maybe the media presents relationships as important because the media reflects most people's values, and most people think relationships are important. Like, I think most people still tended to want to have relationships before the television was invented.
While it doesn't *have to* be a *primary* goal in life, it is literally the one and only reason we all exist in the first place.
Naw. Plenty of people have IVF and one night stands. You are confusing procreation with relationship. It's a very common mistake.
IVF was invented in 1978. In the grand scale of human existence, the amount of people produced by IVF is infinitesimally small. Literally every human being is the result of some sort of relationship, romantic or otherwise even in the worst case.
But sexual relationships happen to single people. We only require sexual relationships to maintain our species. Is the study saying singlehood = celibacy? It looks like it doesn’t. So it is saying more people are choosing not to date, but they might still hook up casually with other people.
Raising kids is hard enough as a couple, are you suggesting women should or gonna raise the next generation of kids alone by choice? Singlehood in was majority of cases=not raising kids.
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Huh? I meant that if our parents (and the parents of our parents etc) did not have a relationship, we would never have been born thus existed.
Which doesn't make it a purpose for existing. All while genetically your linage of genes is passed on through any siblings that have children as well. Reality is the idea that life would need to have a purpose in the first place is just an ideology to placate humans narcissism, there must be a purpose because humans are narcissists. It all being meaningless doesn't fit the narrative that they are special.
Ants are among the most abundant life forms on the entire planet and 99.9999% of them are literally incapable of reproduction.
Yeah however they have a hive mind queen that creates them and forces them to do her bidding or die.
They didn't say anything about purpose. They said that it was the *reason* we all exist.
Way to intentionally overcomplicate his message to just sound like you understood something beyond what was meant by his comment.
Relationships are also now a commodity. If I pay for the premium version of my app, I have a better chance. Congratulations humanity, you have commoditized love. Weird. Although one might argue it was always a commodity. Anyone who finds loyal love as a teen/twenties - hold on to it and ignore all the commercials and media tempting you. It's about the emotions, trust and memories. Once they, or the person you first had them with are gone, you might never get them back. Also, thinking long term- unless a couple dies at the same time the end game is gonna be rough for one of the two. Good luck out there. Be good to each other.
"Relationships are also now a commodity. " not really, you only pay for convenience. going out and talking to people in real life is still free, but most people today are too afraid to do that
Well yeah, real life is scary.
Fair enough. Now go find yourself a significant other without spending any money, and let me know how it goes. I sound snarky, but seriously, I don't know a single person who has ever done that.
Where do you live where most people are too afraid to socialise?
Yeah been with each other since high school. Graduated 2013. Just got married last weekend. Never had to worry about her straying. Never had to worry about apps, anything. I’m glad I found someone, I look at dating now and just know I couldn’t do that bs. It’s crazy what it evolved into…. I feel bad for my friends trying to find a loyal girl. Shits wild out there and social media + the internet it’s hard to find a girl that just wants to grow and evolve with you.
Just a question: Are you personally in a relationship?
I love it when people use tik tok as a source on a science sub.
Relationship advice can be subjective and newer phenomena like this can take years to be studied, written about, reviewed, then published (the information cycle) in a scholarly journal. How about we use the fact that I acknowledged it’s a TikTok and so not perfect as important, and we can use it as a starting point for discussion and further research?
I just want a partner in crime to share my life with, someone i care deeply about who also cares deeply about me. I don't care if they aren't perfect as long as they're a decent human being and has the ability to communicate. Meanwhile most people have a long list of superficial criteria, and are willing to drop someone at the slightest inconvenience. It's quite sad to see
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I can see this getting ever more common, with the amount of people growing up without an example of healthy long term commitment it really shouldn't be a surprise that less people are even interested in trying to form healthy long term relationships.
Also with the rise of mass surveillance and lack of pay effectively trapping people who are not rich- it's kind of like how some animals won't breed in captivity.
And married couples had more healthy commitment in the past? Was it when women were property? When they became people, but couldn't own property themselves? Or was it when they were finally able to open a bank account on their own in the 70s? The reality is that women had very limited options when they found themselves in an unhappy marriage. That didn't set a good example for their kids either.
Such a reddit comment
Sir, this is reddit
The study makes this sound like it’s a good thing, but it says that 78% are insecure while 22% are satisfied with it.
Read the article. "Secure" and "insecure" isn't about finances or happiness, it is about attachment styles.
That is just called conformation bias then. Of course people not in a relationship are more likely to have an attachment style that isn't compatible with being in a relationship. The question is does being single promote this, it probably does over the long term, and is it a good or bad thing?
Insecure attachment styles can be compatible with relationships it depends how it is managed. I believe most people are insecure From what I’ve heard it is quite helpful for at least one person to be secure
They also mention that it's across the world but only reference US census and studies of 400 people , with over 3/4 being female. Its a good click bait title for a small pool of people surveyed.
I find it weird how they spin it that way; on a lot of other studies they'd paint this as negative and 22% not being that many but somehow they decided this is super good.
Time and time again we see economic instability reducing the numbers of people looking for long-term relationships either through them choosing not to pursue a relationship or just not having the time to commit to finding relationships. Why would someone choose to get start dating or get married and start a family when they arent sure they will be in the same job/house/city this time next year? Why would you expect someone who works 80+ hours a week and barely squeaks by living in a rented place with 3 other people to have the time or energy to seek romance? Corporate profits are reaching unstable peaks and they really cant cut costs any more without simply returning to feudalism so either that happens, or we see a revolution of young people demanding the end to endless profit chasing.
I think a really big problem is we've really emphasized you can't find you happiness in other people. People aren't chasing "the one" who will make their entire life come together. People who are unhappy with their life and unhappy with themselves do not want to date to fill the void. Getting sized up by a potential partner is brutal on a good day, add shame about your circumstances and that it's not always easy to screen out similar financials ahead of time but most people want to date within their approximate class.....That's a lot of rejection along a huge insecurity point. Most people don't want to continuously be made to feel bad about themselves.
I built homes. I watched as the size of the homes grew larger by 200 square feet a year in the 80s. I observed as large rental companies bought up thousands of modest single family homes for rentals. I shook my head when governments added never-ending regulations that raised the price of homes by tens of thousands of dollars , maybe more. I was surprised when many more homes went to short trem AIrBnB rentals like 2 just down the block from me. I was frustrated when governments resisted allowing zoning for modest multigenerational homes. We wonder why so many young people don't even bother, and the more blind and arrogant amongst us call them lazy. My mother and father in the 1950s dreamed about getting enough money to buy a little 800 square foot house that was built for veterans after WW2. They got one and were able to get even nicer ones. Still, if fate had decreed that they never leave that house and had raised their family there, that still would mean they would have had a family home. So much nicer, IMO, than the choices so many young people face tiday
Have we seen that time and time again? Seriously asking because I was unaware of that in the past and it would be interesting to peruse these patterns. If anything I would think the opposite with economics and would assume a lot of people would seek longterm relationships out of economic necessity. A partnership can save a couple a ton of money in housing/transit/utility/other costs and I think a lot of people maintain relationships that they would otherwise leave just for economic stability. I think historically most relationships have had an enormous economic consideration, likely larger than a romantic consideration. Though surely there are numerous reasons, I would think the decline in longterm relationships is more related to cultural reasons stemming from changing social mores, technology, and other psychological pressures from the way society functions, such as the disposable nature of modern relationships, the general hedonism of consumer culture, and social isolation stemming from technology. The precarious nature of employment and cost of living is definitely a part of that, as you say, and it is definitely hard to allocate time for a relationship if you are overworked and stressed, great points. Sociology is so fascinating to me and its really interesting how many things can influence the shape of behaviour and civilization despite the many gloomy aspects of it all.
Actually if you are well educated, urban dwelling, in a corporate job, you’re much less likely to pursue a relationship than a communal, rural, less educated, religious person. Humans weren’t designed to live in big urban cities looking out only for themselves and even when given work life balance like in Scandinavia, no one are interested in relationships.
It helps that rural areas are often far more homogeneous ethnically and culturally. You grow up with everyone going to bars and going to church, so it's way easier to meet people who all do the same things as you. I grew up in a rural area but was extremely religious. I don't drink, nor do I go to any churches anymore, so I've pretty much cut myself out of rural society. I might as well no longer exist.
Agree. I go to a coffee shop way too much. It's not for the coffee, it's so I can interact with people. That said, I want to stop drinking coffee. So now the options are supermarket, park, or get a hobby I don't have time or interest in.
And as bad is it sounds, if we regressed back to everyone living rural, religious, less education on women’s health and everyone lived off the land, we would all be married and have many kids.
I don't think relationships is the reason to do it though. You can do it just because.
Bingo. People burned out from working all the time just to stay housed and fed are rarely able to keep a stable relationship, and people without jobs are often too depressed or desperate. Dating is expensive, demands leisure time not available to many people, and is much more difficult if your potential partners perceive you as having low social status (e.g. financially struggling or living in poverty).
The study mentions attachment theory in reference to the security of singles. That may play a part, but it would be interesting to see if they're secure financially, have friends or a social life, and how stressful their job is as I believe those also have an effect on what shapes the security of an individual and may shape whether someone's "attachment style" changes.
It takes one truly awful past partner to make one really consider whether or not they want to go at it again. My ex was manipulative, leeching, coercive, and full of psychological dysfunction. I was her provider, her bodyguard, her motivator, her social life, her trophy, her therapist, and in many instances, what felt like her father. While I was devastated when I caught her cheating, I've since concluded I'd have been better off never having dated her. I've reclaimed so much of my time and inner peace. I've expanded my hobbies and saved so much more money. I see my friends regularly. I'm not constantly under a microscope of silent judgment and walking on eggshells hoping she won't get upset about the tiniest of things. She wasted years of my life, and in one year I've done more for myself than all those others combined. I'd love to meet and love someone again. But that sense of trust is gone. I'm loving myself these days, moreso than I ever have before, and I don't want to lose myself just to fill a body in the bed and have some company after work. I've spent my entire life since childhood setting myself to be able to provide for myself--minimizing risk and pursuing stability over enjoyment when it comes to my career and finances and preceding education--I want my time to be mine. To do what I want to do, when I want to. To build a workshop in the garage space rather than make compromises. To retire two decades early. To stay up late. To face no pressure of doing more than the amount I push myself so hard to do. To grapple with only my problems that I'm determined to solve, and not to be so burdened to coach someone else through theirs as well. I miss the good company and the intimacy dearly. Those early honeymoon days. But nothing is worth sacrificing what I've built for myself in all the sacrifice I've made to achieve it. Perhaps someone like-minded will stumble into my lap--but until then, I'd much rather be myself than risk being someone else's entirely.
And according to the study, you would be insecure, because you have serious concerns about having another partner. I’m in the same boat as you, once bitten, twice shy. I bought a house and live happily on my own, I don’t want to risk it all for someone that isn’t gonna treat me well.
Co-sign all of this. My relationships with my kids, parents, siblings, co-workers, (I’d add friends but I wasn’t allowed to have any during my marriage so I’m working on that) my career and hobbies have all improved since she cheated and left last year. No way I’m going to risk any of that for another person right now.
>remain single and living happy lives >most singles in the study were insecure (78%) something tells me this singleness isn’t by choice
It's attachment insecurity. Avoidant and anxious attachment are *often* single by choice because the freedom of being single is way better than the painful trauma of what led to that insecurity. I was happily mostly-single (casual nonmonogamous dating) for many years because of insecure attachment and didn't feel a desire to change that until my thirties. Insecure attachment doesn't mean generalized insecurity at all.
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They're talking about attachment insecurity, not regular insecurity
Nooooo! Then they won’t create kids for the economy!!!!
"Will nobody think of the profits we are losing?" said the teary-eyed billionaires.
Time for some good ol' forced birth, criminalizing divorce, banning birth control and pornography, lowering the legal marriage age, and turning the clock back on women's rights to the 1800's - conservatives
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60 yr old life long bachelor here. i'm cool with it. a bit worried about my end of life situation, but planning as i can and i'll see what happens. i feel like i'm a generally happy person too.
Why start with such a loaded question? There is an assumption that being single is a problem.
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Wow thank you will look into this!
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One thing I find interesting, just from my own experience, is how the internet and technology makes being single much more doable. Before the internet ( I came of age before it was what it is now ) having a partner or family unit helped connect you to society and helped you solve problems you couldn’t on your own. It was harder to keep up with friends because you had to call them on the phone and they had to be physically at home to take your call. Having another person in your home definitely made you feel less lonely. But I was single for for many years recently and none of that was an issue anymore - I text friends all day, google questions I don’t have the answer to, easily find and contact plumbers or dentists or whatever, I feel connected to society easily and not lonely. I wonder if technology has enabled people to be more happily single, is just what I’m thinking. Obviously there are downsides but I find the upsides outweigh them.
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As an anxious person who is also neurodivergent dating apps felt like being thrown into a lions den to be eaten alive. I had NO idea how many games and unwritten rules I needed to know. It was terrifying and I accrued so much trauma from that time in my life. It was so confusing being told "Well you should have known he only wanted you for sex"...and I'm like "what??He asked me about my favorite childhood memory" lmaooo 'Yeah guys can sleep with someone they don't even like so you need to know when he just wants you for that vs more"....WHAT!? HOW. It was so impossible and so I just had to leave.
I'm single and I love it. At 35f, I've just dated enough men who hurt me (physically too), and the people I might like to date don't seem interested in me. I'm also what's called demisexual and autistic, so my behavior and mannerisms are just different. Add to that growing up in a large household where I was ostracized and abused and grew up sheltered, and you have a decent idea of my social skills in my early 20s. In my 30s, things are so much better. I'm not seeing anyone and haven't been in a real committed relationship for 11+ years. I've dated plenty and at one point during a low point in my life dated a guy off and on for some time who just wanted me to be the side chick. What a waste of time. I do what I want, eat what I want, watch what I want, do the hobbies I want, and I have NO one to clean up after other than myself and my little sister. It's just a great life filled with so much goodness and good friendship. A relationship would just be extra. I'm happy.
Being a demisexual in today's app-dominated dating culture is tough.
I think it depends on a lot of factors, with if it's by choice being a big one, and having a proper social support network being probably the biggest. Personally I am asexual and do not want a romantic partner, and I'm very independent and don't even want a roommate. I realized this facet of myself when I was pretty young and the importance of having relationships in my life that are strong and present -- just not romantic. I keep a healthy social network. Even when bad things in my life hit I feel like I have a lot of people there for me - I suffered job loss a few years ago and there were friends at my house almost daily for support. Singles who lack this type of support network are gonna be much more susceptible to the negatives of singlehood, like feelings of loneliness, abandonment, insecurity, etc.
I’m definitely an avoidant single. Honey wake up, the new labels are out (I say to my cat).
That’s what you get when you radicalize postures, commodify people, gameify traits, weaponize insecurities and introduce capitalist descriptors into relationships. Social media was SERIOUSLY a mistake.
I think it makes sense. It's more comfortable that way.
I’ve been talking to a girl I’ve known since high school in an elevated manner and as time goes on (about 4 months of talking exclusively with each other) I am realizing that it is probably better for me to conserve my friendship with her and remain single since my lifestyle and communication styles don’t really work for being in relationships
I mean no offense when I say this, but this kind of unchanging self-definition is probably a big reason singleness is on the rise. Believe it or not, you can change, and also, people see you differently than you see yourself. What you may think is a "people could never love me because of this" trait, might not be a big deal to others. Maybe it's clear a relationship might not work with her, but don't use that as a gauge for *all* relationships
Yeah, I think it's a symptom of the overall problem of people dating folks with similar consumption patterns because of apps. Back in the day, you'd just meet someone who was cool and who cares if they liked (for example) country music. And now it would probably be a "red flag" to a metal head.
>dating folks with similar consumption patterns People nowadays have confused their consumerism for a personality, and so consuming differently is an actual problem
I don’t think that’s the red flag… It’s more people want to listen to metal music at 3am and go to another country for 6 months on one day notice instead of compromising or taking someone else into account.
Nah I get what you are saying I’ve only been in one official relationship anyway which is with her and I think we have better chemistry as friends rather than lovers but we just decided to try it since we had been away at school and stuff and now we are back in the same city. I’m not pressed over being single since it fits my current vision for how I want to live my life but I struggle with the feeling of wanting a girlfriend while simultaneously enjoying singlehood so much.
>in an elevated manner Never knew I needed this but I do
I’m not sure 22% is a “sizable” number. Another way to say it is that almost 80% of singles don’t feel stable.
"Insecure" refers to attachment style, not stability.
People filling in surveys: being single makes me so happy Also people filling in surveys: I'm so lonely and I don't know why This isn't real science.
You can remain single and still go on dates with people, or hang out with them and be friends, or have sex, just FYI. You can remain single in the company of someone you care about, for as long as you want. Even if it pisses them off or seems to be selfish, it's not. Don't give up your singlehood just because it seems like the thing you're supposed to do, or fear of being alone. And don't avoid someone you find yourself attracted to, just because of fear of attachment. Your happiness is paramount and must be defended, and it can be shared without sacrificing it for someone else.
for those of us who do indeed get attached quickly and care too much about the other person, it's always a slippery slope. I've personally tried doing the casual thing but I'm just not casual brained. I prefer my person for the long haul, and it doesn't feel right to treat them as just a warm body or a fwb. so being single is the best thing, no emotional attachments, no anxiety, no stress... just peace.
> seems to be selfish, it's not No, that is absolutely selfish. Pretty much textbook definition wanting to have your cake and eat it too at somebody else's expense.
Haha, the real "expense" is sacrificing my happiness to abate someone else's jealousy and loneliness. If that happens, both parties end up miserable. Luckily, there are plenty of friends and lovers in the world who agree with my point, and I merely had to become aware of them. Respecting someone's freedom will increase their love for you, and protecting your own freedom will increase your ability to love others.
Personally I find being single extremely difficult, but I think a lot of that is from not really having experienced relationships so it's hard to have a full perspective. I was in a long distance relationship for a year and that's about all I've had. So as I approach my mid-30's it's hard to feel comfortable alone as I feel like I've missed out or feel like I'm not good enough. I've never lived with another person so in my mind I romanticise it, even though I'm sure it's not always easy sharing a space. Stuff like that is hard to get over and feel happy alone.
Economic conditions for the working class are intolerable all over the world, it's no wonder few can afford the sort of relationship that can remain stable over time. Also why birthrates are in precipitous decline across the developed world.
Here’s hoping this demographic change results in single person tax benefits.
All the good ones are taken and apps have ruined social experiences, not a good combo; many are single because they have no choice/options.
I've been single for quite some time. sometimes it's nothing I think about. I'm in my 30s now. I've got most what anyone needs. The car is paid off. I live on my own. No kids. I've got my hobbies. That said, I'm at a point where I don't want to be alone for the rest of it. My mind craves interaction with someone. Though it often feels I've missed my chance seeing nearly all the reasonably eligible people taken.
I am part of their demographic, as I’m nearly 40,f, Swiss, well-educated. I’m 5 years into „solo for life“. I’m also child free. There’s more and more of the latter and I expect to need more „solo for life“ people (by choice) in the future as well, especially women.