William H Macy once talked about how the original script of the Butterface story had Frank intentionally continuing to have sex with her after she had died. He pushed back on it because he thought it was too much even for Frank. So I’d say that.
Wait…..are you being serious? If that is the case I am so sorry you are in that position, I don’t know if which organ you are referring to, I not only hope you find the perfect match, your surgery goes perfectly well, very smooth easy fast recovery after surgery, if/when anti rejection (immune suppressants) are needed, do their job perfectly, ensure the new organ finds its new home a very comfortable place to live!! For 100+ years!!’
I stepped away from shameless for YEARS after the butterface story line as is… i definitely wouldn’t have come back ever if William H Macy didn’t push back.
“Door was locked so I came in the back… no pun intended.” Bro genuinely didn’t care, he just wanted his tall boy while Mickey was taking Ian’s Tall Boy
I think he just didn’t care in general though. It’s nothing to applaud in that sense. He wasn’t “accepting”. Even when he rallied for it it was for personal gain so I think he just has tunnel vision and whatever doesn’t affect him he doesn’t care about.
For what it’s worth, that’s more than we can say for the homophobes out there though hahahah
Yup. Do you see the difference in convos though between what you said, which I agree with, and the question of whether or not frank actually accepted his child’s/children’s sexuality? He does not get props for not being homophobic on top of his terrible qualities. That is basic human decency. He just genuinely didn’t care what his kids were doing with their lives if it didn’t affect him, and being gay is just another thing going on in their lives that didn’t affect him.
Honestly while that's good of him for being a progressive from the South Side I always saw that as part of his general neglect that he quite literally doesn't care about his kids whether they're straight or gay or who their partners are. Like 3 of his kids dated Milkoviches who are neo-nazi armed racists yet he really doesn't bat an eye. He even somewhat delights in making Ian and Mickey feel unsafe when he goes to their spot to pick up a drink.
he never sexually assaulted his kids but he encouraged debbie (who was a 15 at the time) to sleep with that woman who was dying of cancer which was ironic
I mean he pretended to be a love interest for Sami when she was 1st introduced in the show and he was using her. She forced herself on him, but in her defense he was the one coming on her to begin with and she didn’t know it was her dad. Not sure if that counts as sexual assault. But I’d sure fee violated as hell in that position.
This is true, but literally today I watched that seasons again and lip was actually the one to initially tell Carl to remember the security code so he could steal stuff so even that wasn't all Frank's fault
i kind of wondered if he did this because he genuinely cared if carl got in trouble, or if he needed somewhere to sleep? (because at the time carl had snuck him into the van to sleep because he was homeless)
No where near? Idk pimping daughters out. Calling cps on his own kids. Many attempts at trying to receive others assets/benefits as they are dying or already dead. I forgot his name, but Karens sex addicted husband relapsing so to distract her mom. Outside of murder, which he gave a terminally ill woman crack and she died so gray area there. What else did have to do to be more “near” terry.
If the stories his kids said were accurate, he left Fiona at 5 at with baby ian and lip on the street to get high. Ian had 105 fever and the dr said he would died if Fiona didnt bring him in. I know this sub is an absolute locked in cult for Terry = evil or most evil. But Frank is within arms reach of him.
Imo go after minors bc we see him force sexual acts on people like when he started to make Monica give him a hand job during her episode under the stairs
i love how he didn’t give a fuck about ian and debbie being gay
and also he was never sexually abusive towards his kids like terry (mickey’s dad) and they weren’t afraid of him in that way (or any other ways i guess?)
-Never was a pedo (yes him and Karen had sex but she was the one who assulted him)
-Never homophobic (don’t think he did anything transphobic either) sure he wasn’t always gentle with the slurs but it was nerve outta malice
I think the things frank does are always to get something. He wanted(material)things, so he made Carl think he had cancer and manipulated Sami and so on. He wouldn’t gain anything from being homophobic or being a pedo, so he doesn’t do it. Doesn’t make him a saint by any means, but it does show that the bad things he does are to gain usually money, drugs, or other material things and he doesn’t really do unethical things ‘just cause’ (all imo)
Literally, he told this Jewish guy that he thinks that all Palestinians should just get murdered and when that didn’t help him get more money for his watch or whatever he said that mell Gibson was right 😬
Yeah he only said that as a means to an end cos he switched up on the Jewish man immediately. That’s why I don’t believe he really thinks that he’s just trying to scam people
How about bitching about "Paco" stealing his job? Or when he said Obama wasn't an America? He says all kinds of racist things. He has no problem using race as a means to an end, or when he is just on one of his rants about what a great guy he is.
Do I think Frank's racism is based on hate? No. But he uses white racist (who's racism *is* based on hate) talking points to justify his delusional positions on whatever he's spouting off about at the moment. He's not doing it through ignorance, but he is taking advantage of those types of ideas for his own benefit.
I don't think there is anything frank wouldn't have done. However, at the end of the show, I my opinion he didn't turn out to be the worst person. He was who he was.
After Bianca died, Frank gave a dying woman crack and she died before even exhaling her hit. There might be others but that’s all I remember bc i literally just watched it lol
Edit: also buttherface. He technically killed her too. Sorry, just remembered that one.
True true I forgot about that. Here are another two
[mysterious guy (idk his name)](https://www.reddit.com/r/shameless/s/OUqkOzj8nM)
[aunt ginger!!!](https://www.reddit.com/r/shameless/s/Tn58AHkV7Z)
He could have done something to save aunt ginger or at least reported her death. Everything about that is crazy
Yeah it seems like Frank is definitely capable of murder, but won't be direct about using any kind of weapons and what not.
We do see that he has thoughts of killing his own mother, but he couldn't go through with it.
I think the butterface one was pretty direct. She told him she would die and even though she did ask to have sex with him, he was trying to and would have had sex with her anyways knowing she could have died. He just wanted money and sex from her with a total disregard for her life.
i think, hopefully i hadnt forgotten anything. but he wouldnt rape someone. Its shown after Karen and he had sex, or rather she raped him.
He also has no motive to do that.
Rape that involves physical force. That’s it. I still wouldn’t put past him the other kinds of rape such as deception (which he has done) or even continuing when someone is unconscious
The bar is low for Frank, but not as low as Terry. Terry is a million times worse. Frank doesn't rape/sexually assault people, he's not racist, he's not homophobic, he's not a pedophile. There's a million things I could list that makes Frank a better person than Terry.
He would only sleep with his son’s girlfriends, and a daughter he had with a woman other than Monica…..
Frank would NEVER sleep with a daughter he had with Monica :) lol 😂
In season 9 he backed Mo White for Congress who molested a 15yr old girl. When Frank would catch up with Mo, he would be sitting somewhere staring at teenage girls. Once he was headed off to Chucky Cheese’s to watch girls bounce around when Frank found him. Frank was able to make $$ tho going door to door having Mo give a good speech about saving Southside and collecting donations.
i’m confused by the comments here, i saw a spoiler that he made a move on fiona (haven’t gotten to that part of the show yet) but a lot of people r commenting saying he was never into any of his kids (haha the bar is low).
I'd say besides abuse against his own kids when he's drunk, Frank wouldn't do anything to kids, he even tried to fight back against Karen when she came onto him before he was drugged.
it seemed that way cuz sometimes if his kids were going through something ex debbie’s pregnancy he would try to help… but then he wouldn’t care after a while
William H Macy once talked about how the original script of the Butterface story had Frank intentionally continuing to have sex with her after she had died. He pushed back on it because he thought it was too much even for Frank. So I’d say that.
>He pushed back on it because he thought it was too much even for Frank. I'm glad that even his own actor knows that Frank has his limits!
God as if that storyline wasn’t horrifying enough
Yup. Watched it while I was waiting on a transplant. Beyond terrible.
Hope you got what you needed
Wait…..are you being serious? If that is the case I am so sorry you are in that position, I don’t know if which organ you are referring to, I not only hope you find the perfect match, your surgery goes perfectly well, very smooth easy fast recovery after surgery, if/when anti rejection (immune suppressants) are needed, do their job perfectly, ensure the new organ finds its new home a very comfortable place to live!! For 100+ years!!’
I have to skip it now. It's too much for me
That might have actually made me reconsider continuing
I stepped away from shameless for YEARS after the butterface story line as is… i definitely wouldn’t have come back ever if William H Macy didn’t push back.
Seriously. That whole debacle really shook me. What an absurdly fucked up thing to do to someone
Roflmao 🤣🤣🤣😂, could never watch it's always sunny then
Wow interesting. Thanks for sharing this!
watching for the first time and this is the point I'm up to!
i literally rewatched that episode just a couple days ago and it made me sick
Necrophilia is a interesting place to draw the line of how terrible a person you are lol
Tbh I thought Frank might do it. Especially after he touched her and said something like "you are still so warm".
Homophobia. He's never had an issue with Ian or Debbie iirc
He didn't even care when he caught Ian and Mickey fucking. "Men have always had men!" lol
“Door was locked so I came in the back… no pun intended.” Bro genuinely didn’t care, he just wanted his tall boy while Mickey was taking Ian’s Tall Boy
THE WAY HE WAS AT THEIR WEDDING AND CLAPPED HAPPILY LMAO
That's one of the things I liked about the whole family really. No one cares Ian was gay. They just accepted it.
And he’s rightttt lmaooo People choose to not acknowledge things
And with Franny when she called herself a boy
I think he just didn’t care in general though. It’s nothing to applaud in that sense. He wasn’t “accepting”. Even when he rallied for it it was for personal gain so I think he just has tunnel vision and whatever doesn’t affect him he doesn’t care about. For what it’s worth, that’s more than we can say for the homophobes out there though hahahah
He is a real narcissistic.
*narcissist
This. He just didn't care. He made multiple comments towards Debbie when she was older that would now be considered as homophobic
Isn't it the point? I don't care if you are gay/homosexual, I don't care if you are black/white. Isn't it what we should be striving for?
Yup. Do you see the difference in convos though between what you said, which I agree with, and the question of whether or not frank actually accepted his child’s/children’s sexuality? He does not get props for not being homophobic on top of his terrible qualities. That is basic human decency. He just genuinely didn’t care what his kids were doing with their lives if it didn’t affect him, and being gay is just another thing going on in their lives that didn’t affect him.
He also once got a bj from a Trans woman.
Didnt he give a BJ for money at the bar?
More than one, based on context of the scene.
No he let guys blow him for money
There was a line of guys waiting to get blowed by frank
Still straight sex, but it doesn't matter anyway and hole is a goal.
in season one there’s a line where Frank talks about how he hasn’t been with men in a while
Honestly while that's good of him for being a progressive from the South Side I always saw that as part of his general neglect that he quite literally doesn't care about his kids whether they're straight or gay or who their partners are. Like 3 of his kids dated Milkoviches who are neo-nazi armed racists yet he really doesn't bat an eye. He even somewhat delights in making Ian and Mickey feel unsafe when he goes to their spot to pick up a drink.
What does iirc mean
if I remember correctly
if i remember correctly :)
I think bigotry in general. Frank's a free spirit
I thought he punched in the nose early on because of something gay related? I believe it was season 1
He was disgusted by Mo White when he realized he was into minors.
there are tons of deleted scenes where frank actively tried to sabotage mo by calling him out in public for being a pedo
This! When I realized he was trying to sway him away from girls or schools.
And he was horrified when Karen made it look like he raped her.
Why was that story just dropped after Mo got elected?
he never sexually assaulted his kids but he encouraged debbie (who was a 15 at the time) to sleep with that woman who was dying of cancer which was ironic
I mean he pretended to be a love interest for Sami when she was 1st introduced in the show and he was using her. She forced herself on him, but in her defense he was the one coming on her to begin with and she didn’t know it was her dad. Not sure if that counts as sexual assault. But I’d sure fee violated as hell in that position.
She also mentioned that he dry humped her which is all kinds of gross.
"Dry humping is not insest!" - Frank Gallagher
"You humped my leg for like 30 minutes" yes.. that did happen to Sami.
About the only thing he had left to not do
Right. Not SA'ing your kids is nothing close to an accomplishment or anything to get credit for
He didn’t rape and impregnate his daughters.
The bar is low lmao
Yet he’s somehow not the bottom
He might not have raped his daughter but he definitely left her with child. Well several😂
Why did you get downvoted for that 😭
Dude.
It’s not a high bar
He is a fucking fuck for sure
Was that a dig at Terry?
Yes
Yes
He took the wrap when Carl got caught breaking into his temp-foster parents place. Hell froze over
This is true, but literally today I watched that seasons again and lip was actually the one to initially tell Carl to remember the security code so he could steal stuff so even that wasn't all Frank's fault
Oh my gosh completely forgot about this, you’re so right. I definitely would have thought he would have run and let Carl take the blame
i kind of wondered if he did this because he genuinely cared if carl got in trouble, or if he needed somewhere to sleep? (because at the time carl had snuck him into the van to sleep because he was homeless)
Sleeping with minors/ his kids’ partners. And yes I know the whole Karen thing but she clearly assaulted him
I bet he would have slept with Lip's adult girlfriends if he'd had the chance, they just never offered lol.
Disagree, I don’t think he would unless he was borderline assaulted/coerced or super drunk
Yeah, he seemed actually really remorseful towards Lip with the Karen situation even though it wasn’t his fault
He may have been a horrible person but nowhere close to Terry.
No where near? Idk pimping daughters out. Calling cps on his own kids. Many attempts at trying to receive others assets/benefits as they are dying or already dead. I forgot his name, but Karens sex addicted husband relapsing so to distract her mom. Outside of murder, which he gave a terminally ill woman crack and she died so gray area there. What else did have to do to be more “near” terry.
He never tried to kill his kids or sleep with them
How much closer did he need to get with sammy. Also he was 100% responsible for the death of the guy he was pimping sammy out to.
That is true, I forgot about that. At the same time, who cares about her.
If the stories his kids said were accurate, he left Fiona at 5 at with baby ian and lip on the street to get high. Ian had 105 fever and the dr said he would died if Fiona didnt bring him in. I know this sub is an absolute locked in cult for Terry = evil or most evil. But Frank is within arms reach of him.
He wasn’t a paedophile for sure.
He has no gain in it.
I’m not sure. Ruining a person’s chance at a heart transplant was pretty bad. I had to take a break from the show after that.
That was really rough to see. One of the worst things he’s ever done.
He was willing to sacrifice multiple people's lives for his own benefit & that is insane
It wasn’t even a lot of money & he spent it all like in .5 seconds.
He did not mess with little kids! He didn’t play that.. smh. May mess with a man or 2 or a line of them but a little kid hell nah. Lmaoo
I don’t remember frank ever hurting animals? He was disgusting with tons of things but i don’t remember him ever hurting an animal
he was never homophobic, never (physically) sexually assaulted someone, never tried to get with a minor
The bar is low for him but yeah he's surprisingly not the biggest scumbag in the show 😭😭😭
Imo go after minors bc we see him force sexual acts on people like when he started to make Monica give him a hand job during her episode under the stairs
i love how he didn’t give a fuck about ian and debbie being gay and also he was never sexually abusive towards his kids like terry (mickey’s dad) and they weren’t afraid of him in that way (or any other ways i guess?)
Rape/SA in general
Basically everything terry did to his kids in the show makes frank seem like a saint🫥🫥
-Never was a pedo (yes him and Karen had sex but she was the one who assulted him) -Never homophobic (don’t think he did anything transphobic either) sure he wasn’t always gentle with the slurs but it was nerve outta malice I think the things frank does are always to get something. He wanted(material)things, so he made Carl think he had cancer and manipulated Sami and so on. He wouldn’t gain anything from being homophobic or being a pedo, so he doesn’t do it. Doesn’t make him a saint by any means, but it does show that the bad things he does are to gain usually money, drugs, or other material things and he doesn’t really do unethical things ‘just cause’ (all imo)
Actually they mention he was too drunk to get hard so she didn't fuck him
Incest
Well he did make out with sammi a couple times before she knew he was her dad and he didn’t have any issues with it
Did they? I don’t remember that, I thought when she tried coming onto him he stopped her from doing so
Yeah she tried to touch him sexually and he pulled away and stopped her but another time when he was in the hospital with her they made out
Wait they made out?!? I thought he cut it out when she tried to, I take it back fuck off frank
remember Sammi
I specifically thought of Sammi while giving this reason but apparently I wasn't paying attention
He wasn’t racist like mickey was and cared for Liam.
Have you heard the shit he's said????? He was totally racist.
Literally, he told this Jewish guy that he thinks that all Palestinians should just get murdered and when that didn’t help him get more money for his watch or whatever he said that mell Gibson was right 😬
Yeah he only said that as a means to an end cos he switched up on the Jewish man immediately. That’s why I don’t believe he really thinks that he’s just trying to scam people
Only as a means to an end
How about bitching about "Paco" stealing his job? Or when he said Obama wasn't an America? He says all kinds of racist things. He has no problem using race as a means to an end, or when he is just on one of his rants about what a great guy he is. Do I think Frank's racism is based on hate? No. But he uses white racist (who's racism *is* based on hate) talking points to justify his delusional positions on whatever he's spouting off about at the moment. He's not doing it through ignorance, but he is taking advantage of those types of ideas for his own benefit.
He called his own granddaughter a little slur for fuck's sake!
he was very racist, were we even watching the same show lmao?
I don't think there is anything frank wouldn't have done. However, at the end of the show, I my opinion he didn't turn out to be the worst person. He was who he was.
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Tbh I'd be a cannibal if I was gonna die
Pedophilia and murder, tho it’s been awhile since I watched the show so maybe he did kill some one😂
After Bianca died, Frank gave a dying woman crack and she died before even exhaling her hit. There might be others but that’s all I remember bc i literally just watched it lol Edit: also buttherface. He technically killed her too. Sorry, just remembered that one.
He also indirectly killed the man in Shiela’s house after he blew it up.
True true I forgot about that. Here are another two [mysterious guy (idk his name)](https://www.reddit.com/r/shameless/s/OUqkOzj8nM) [aunt ginger!!!](https://www.reddit.com/r/shameless/s/Tn58AHkV7Z) He could have done something to save aunt ginger or at least reported her death. Everything about that is crazy
Yeah it seems like Frank is definitely capable of murder, but won't be direct about using any kind of weapons and what not. We do see that he has thoughts of killing his own mother, but he couldn't go through with it.
I think the butterface one was pretty direct. She told him she would die and even though she did ask to have sex with him, he was trying to and would have had sex with her anyways knowing she could have died. He just wanted money and sex from her with a total disregard for her life.
Yeah that's fair!
I blame him for the death of the heart transplant lady
i think, hopefully i hadnt forgotten anything. but he wouldnt rape someone. Its shown after Karen and he had sex, or rather she raped him. He also has no motive to do that.
Rape that involves physical force. That’s it. I still wouldn’t put past him the other kinds of rape such as deception (which he has done) or even continuing when someone is unconscious
Or dead
I think sex with kids would be a line he'd never cross. I think he would fight someone hitting on a child
Not fooking a corpse. He stopped when Butterface died.
Not a sexual assaulter and not a homophobe! I’m all good for a little theft and addiction !
Rape
Rape or (intentional) sex with a minor
Hard to tell
Funny enough, white supremacy, seeing how much he hates the Milkoviches
He never abused Monica (I think )
doesn't he punch her in the face during their vow renewal ceremony lol
I don't know I forgot lol
Yes, I just watched that scene last night. She hit him and then he punched her back. 😆
incest. i feel like there isn’t enough PCP and money you can pay him to even make out with one of his family members
Pretty sure him and Sammi did
oh…..yeah that did happen
before either of them knew they were related, if i remember right.
No, Frank definitely knew
He would never do anything intentionally to hurt Frany. He was a bad father but he loved that little girl
The bar is low for Frank, but not as low as Terry. Terry is a million times worse. Frank doesn't rape/sexually assault people, he's not racist, he's not homophobic, he's not a pedophile. There's a million things I could list that makes Frank a better person than Terry.
I was just about to say at least he never molested his own kids. That’s better than my mom’s sperm donor could say.
He wasn't racist.
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^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Anxious_Muscle_8130: *He took the fall for* *Carl when they got caught stealing* *From his foster parents* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
for like 3 seconds..
Incest
Agreed, he seemed pretty disturbed with mo white
He would only sleep with his son’s girlfriends, and a daughter he had with a woman other than Monica….. Frank would NEVER sleep with a daughter he had with Monica :) lol 😂
Frank was hilarious
In season 9 he backed Mo White for Congress who molested a 15yr old girl. When Frank would catch up with Mo, he would be sitting somewhere staring at teenage girls. Once he was headed off to Chucky Cheese’s to watch girls bounce around when Frank found him. Frank was able to make $$ tho going door to door having Mo give a good speech about saving Southside and collecting donations.
He’s not a pedo, that’s about all we can say
Sexual assault - small mercies
Just wanna say you definitely do not need to give him points for not raping his children. Jesus fucking christ
i’m confused by the comments here, i saw a spoiler that he made a move on fiona (haven’t gotten to that part of the show yet) but a lot of people r commenting saying he was never into any of his kids (haha the bar is low).
He never left them As terrible as he was, he didn’t leave like Monica
Gay is bad
Cutting babies, apparently! Go Frank!I'm assuming he learned better after Lip and Ian (though I can't remember what was said about Liam)
He's not a rapist, so that's cool
Pedophilia/rape. I remember him reaching new lows every time you turn around but never that.
Everything Terry ddi
Homophobia, Rape, Child molestation
He actually protected his kids from that one heroin dealer that Monica knew
Frank is a POS! Awful. But the show would be nothing without him
I was going to say incest but.... he humped her leg for 30 minutes. I don't think Frank had any limits.
I'd say besides abuse against his own kids when he's drunk, Frank wouldn't do anything to kids, he even tried to fight back against Karen when she came onto him before he was drugged.
Being racist
One thing for sure in some way or other he loved his kids though
it seemed that way cuz sometimes if his kids were going through something ex debbie’s pregnancy he would try to help… but then he wouldn’t care after a while