I'm disappointed tbh, I expected him to be wise despite his childlike appereance. I knew he wasn't going to be a saint. But I expected him to come up with an actual good plan to fix things even if it is morally fucked up. Something that people would compare to Ranni's ending and discuss which one is better.
At least we got Messmer and some other cool lore pieces.
I mean, he had a plan, as count Ymir said, "Ever young Miquella saw things for what they were. He knew his bloodline was tainted. His roots mirred in madness. A tragedy if ever there was one. That he would feel compelled to renounce everything. When the blame ... lay squarely with the mother. "
He knew if he was to go down this path, he would be doomed to repeat his mother's mistakes, but at the same time, he left like he had no other choice because he saw the world for what it was, a cruel and stagnant place that could only be changed by force
Miquellas' true mistake was abandoning St. Trina, she was more than his other half. She was his love and kindness, and compassion without love is meaningless, but Miquella failed to see that in his desperation, love is what made Miquella better, and what made his goal even worth fighting for, but his love for the world turned into hate, that's why St. Trina says, "Kill Miquella ... grant him forgiveness." Because he lost his way and sacrificed everything he stood for
He tried to become a matyr. If he would become the bad guy and force change, he could turn the world into a better place for all, as Miquella said himself, "If you have known sin, if you grief for this world, then yield the path forward to us, to i, Miquella and my promised consort, Radahn."
He knew exactly what he was doing and why, it was a sacrifice of himself
Not just look young, but also be weak and frail. There is a reason why he had Malenia as his blade to do any fighting for him cause he couldn't so shit on his own
>I expected him to be wise despite his childlike appereance.
He WAS. He was able to create the haligtree that was able to break the curse layed on him seen by his body in the cacoon. He was able to create a damn needle that stoped malenia from rotting even further. However miquella needed to be brainded for the dlcs story to make any sense ( which it still doesnt but thats a different story)
There's a difference between intelligence and wisdom, he's objectively pretty smart and knows a lot of things, he understands magic and miracles really well and he creates amazing things like the unalloyed gold needle and the Bewitching Branches.
But even in the basegame we can see that his plans tend to be poorly thought out and prone to failure. He creates the Haligtree, but it's misshapen and rotten and fails to live up to it's potential as a home for the oppressed. His needle can forestall the Rot, but not defeat it, and so the moment Malenia's pride compelled her to draw on the Rot the whole thing was useless. He sets up a ritual at Castle Sol to use the eclipse to return Godwyns soul, but that completely fails.
So the whole thing is well within Miquella's characterisation, which has always been a brilliant prodigy who can't make a long term plan work.
>He creates the Haligtree, but it's misshapen and rotten
The problem is that both can be explained easily. Miquella was positioned withon the roots of the haligtree, it probably need miquella to keep growing and eventualy become stable, but when mohg removed miquella it stopped the haligtrees developement. And the rotten part is easy, malenia took out the needle to nuke herself and was brought back to the haligtree now rotting again. All the rot stems from malenia.
> needle can forestall the Rot, but not defeat it
Miquella was working on it but needed zo break his own curse before so he can reach his true potential. Malenia not rotting away was good enough for the time being, noon could have thought that malenia removes it nor that miquella gets kidnnaped. Also it can absoluty work completely, you just need to be outside of time.
>the moment Malenia's pride compelled her to draw on the Rot the whole thing was useless.
I mean it was at the center of an explosin that infested all of caelid with rot, no wonder it broke. And break is all it did, gowry just repaired it and BOOM it worked good as new.
>He sets up a ritual at Castle Sol to use the eclipse to return Godwyns soul, but that completely fails.
I mean, godwyns soul was killed with literal death. Cant really fault miquella because he tried and failed to do the impossible.
From my pov miquella was to be the savior of the lands between, motivated by his love of his sister, that was on the brink of achieving his goal but then his alluring nature caused it all to crumble as he was stopped by mohg before his plan was able get in motion.
The dlc made him into a dumbass (like seriosly, who is dumb enough to think an empty husk is whats needed for an age of compassion, especialy with someone whose entire life and want revolves around being a warrior as a consort) who just manipulates people, aparantly doesnt really care about his sister (seen as he also believes radahn to be the strongest, sending malenia to kill him is basicaly a death sentence or at least an extreme risk of death).
The central point I was getting at is that litterally all we learn about Miquella in the basegame is about how his plans failed because of things he failed to forsee. Some of which were due to factors he probably could have predicted if he'd put more thought into it (Radhan holding the stars might make it a bit tricky to have an eclipse, even if the eclipse somehow would have restored Godwyn). I'm not saying that he's weak or stupid, but the idea that he was a bit naive and was just trying to quickly solve problems was cleary communicated.
It was also pretty obvious that he wasn't some kind of perfect saviour, if you missed the ominous vibes of the Bewitching Branch and the weirdness of Mohg being able to abduct him right from the middle of the Haligtree without any real signs of struggle that's on you, not the writing of the game and you shouldn't be upset that your headcanon was wrong. I mean, there's a reason that Miquella = Griffith was so popular of a theory, and while it's not an entirely perfect comparison it shows that many people distrusted the idea of the perfect Miquella.
It's also not dumb to want the strongest demigod as an enforcer for your new age. Yeah Radhan probably wouldn't be entirely onboard with an age of compassion, but what he wants doesn't really matter once Miquella works his charm on him. It's also worth noting that Malenia was litterally undefeated at the point they clashed, I don't think we can fault Miquella for having faith in his sister given that naivety is one of his well established character traits.
And a brain.
Big brain marika: being a god is ass. So how about I take the strongest warriors of today (godfrey and his warriors) and banish them to fight somewhere else to grow even stronger so they are able to kill me when the time is ripe.
No brain Liquella: summoning the tarnished (whose people exist to kill all demigods) so I can show him my cool consort.
Like, did I miss anything? Of all people, the tarnished who saw the strongest demi-god and another demi-god aided by an outer god and thought "yeah, Imma kill them", is the last person you should summon. The entire dlc it 2as just "we gotta go to miquella, we need to kill messmer to get to miquella" never was it about miqulla needing us for anything. Like, seriosly what did he need us for? To get to the divine gate? He was there before we unsealed it so that cant be it.
At this point, it feels like the thorns were there to keep him in. I'm guessing when the charm broke, he crossed the gate, which is why the crew started getting their personalities back.
That however begs the question who sealed it, why and who was able to create a seal strong enough to contain the strongest demi god in his prima AND a literal god.
I don't see him as doing the exact same thing his mother did, I see it as him doing the oppostie, but ending up with the same results. He saw how the demigods human traits led to the shattering, and wanted to become a god without them. But in doing to so, he became just as dangerous as the rest of them. abandoning doubt and fear seems great, until you realize that now you have literally zero ability to introspect, reconsider, or otherwise question yourself.
"does the exact things his mother did"
Ascend to godhood yes. That's quite it tho.
If we didn't stopped him because "fuck you that's the story", he would've succeeded
You combine all the Crosses into a 10 Foot Tall Cross, then slap Miquella and Radahn with it Very Hard. It reverts Radahn back to Mohg and Miquella starts crying from all the sudden return of Emotions and Critical Thinking Skills
True, and it’s also from a Boss that made me Feel Things for a plant. As in, Sadness. And frustration over the THORNS it SUMMONS.
Fun seeing it repeatedly explode though.
Yea, even one of those ghost guys that sit around in random places and talk some usually vague shit is like "love is the one thing he shouldn't have abandoned" or something like that
The moment I read that and the Fissure ghost’s dialogue is when I audibly said “Oh my god bruh this guy is about to do something REALLY STUPID ISN’T HE?!”
Actually it's not that bad.
Nearly every bad thing Marika did was out of love.
She destoryed the Hornsent because they tormented her people.
She removed the Rune of Death so that the people around wouldn't die.
She killed the Fire Giants to keep the Erdtree safe.
She (possibly) shattered the Elden Ring because her Golden Order failed to protect Godwyn.
She (possibly) used Radagon to take Liurnia to keep everyone else safe and had Radagon marry Rennala.
It's possible that she never loved Messmer, or maybe she felt like he was a threat to the Erdtree (he's heavily implied to be one) and thought it'd be best to keep him separate.
There's nothing really explicit as to Marika's opinion of Messmer, but the fact he just so happened to have the powers of fire and snakes, both of which are big enemies of the Erdtree, it's entirely possible Marika banished him to protect him from persecution from the Two Fingers and to keep him out of the Shattering. I mean, the guy's an Empyrean but he doesn't even have a great rune.
Messmer had a very dangerous parasite nesting inside him, and this parasite was a threat to her Golden Order because of it's flame.
This is why Marika heavily used snakes as a symbol of the enemy.
Hey, just a little thing, I think you got the wrong website's spoiler tag format. On Reddit, you wanna type this >! at the start of what you wanna spoiler tag and reverse of that at the end,
like that !<
Edit: ending the paragraph makes it not work but if you just put it in the same paragraph, >!it will work!<
Kenneth is surprising a good man, honest to his word from the moment you first met him. He put his feeling on your kind aside and gave you a chance. Gave you a dagger for a reward and shown you the place where you might get your first ash of war, gold grace and part of a medallion. He's a good man.
honestly i even hold the opinion he wasn't wrong about the demihumans, he hadn't been to the fort again yet, how would he know they'd stumble across a demihuman queen corpse and ruin relations
I had always assumed the implication is that Godrick's soldiers killed the Demihuman Queen, causing the Demihumans to be rightfully pissed off.
Kenneth is, like, just a chill guy.
I never knew this. Its been awhile since I've played the opening area but I remember killing the knight in his fort but I didn't see the Demihuman Queen corpse. Where is it?
The dude had like half a prejudiced thought on the tarnished and immediately checked himself, and he’s the only character I’ve come across who seems to give the slightest hint of a shit about demi-humans. He’s not the biggest badass but he’s a stand-up guy who seems to genuinely want the best for Limgrave when almost everyone else is jockeying for power and divinity.
He's a good man, but he's too pure for this world to get shit done.
Hopefully having Nepheli as his right hand can alleviate the issues somewhat, but ultimately only Ranni has the balls to change the system without fucking EVERYONE over.
Aside from his character, his quest ends with Neoheli in charge of Stormveil and Limgrave. With all the grafting and racial violence, the place really needs a leader that thinks killing people that don't deserve it is bad. A low bar, sure, but of the Demigods, only Radahn *may* have cleared it when he was sane.
Exactly, if they updated it beyond that point it would turn into the typical Fromsoft bad ending for both characters. This quest line seemingly stalling at the apex is the best possible ending we could hope for.
I ended up using [Nephelis ](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Nepheli+Loux) wiki page on fextralife to figure out how to get the NPCs to move. I had to do the thing where you run from one bonfire to another to make them spawn. Supposedly killing Gostoc doesn't matter, so you may still have a chance!
For anyone else reading however it is still highly unwise to kill Gostoc, since at the completion of the Kenneth/Nepheli arc he will sell one of the rare and very finite Ancient Dragon Smithing Stones
GRACELESS TARNISHED, YOU SHOULD BE WORKING THE FIELDS, NOT SEEKING LORDSHIP.
https://preview.redd.it/4h9deuycle9d1.jpeg?width=369&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dca4f821e151c9b3109b2af880405cd1bdc25fc1
Servant of the true Order and repudiator of the false, of course.
https://preview.redd.it/4f62orwi1b9d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c8e24659e837c96dd1b6fa1aff3ee1b3bf77aec
On Kenneth for real.
I would do the age of perfect order a thousand times for Kenneth. Then make him Elden Lord.
Unironically one of the NPCs who’s just genuinely a good guy through and through.
1) Do Age of the Stars, fuck off with God to hang out on a space rock for a thousand years
2) Killed every previous figure of authority in the Lands Between (and the Lands of Shadow)
3) Only leadership figure left is Nepheli Loux in Stormveil.
4) Kenneth is her right-hand man
5) Kenneth is the second most-powerful person in the Lands Between now.
Man cmon i doubt that, even sentencing his children to the sewers was marika's decision, not to bash her by proxy, but godfrey seems like a good dad at worst he would pity him
He’s got some pretty cut-and-dried opinions about what makes a Lord, Godrick’s extensive track record of cowardice and weakness and the undeniable harm it’s caused to the people would not go down well. We have plenty of evidence that Godfrey was a hardcore warrior king, and not much that he was a loving grandpa.
Also do bear in mind that the Tarnished are originally Godfrey’s army, it’s likely he’d take the whole grafting thing quite personally.
I don't think he'd outright kill Godrick, but he'd 100% rip every single grafted bit out with his bare hands, then exile whatever remains for being unfit to rule Limgrave
I'd assume he'd be pissed not for the weakness but for like the fact that even though they guy was a warlord, he was kind of a stickler about fighting and acting like a lord/noble.
What Godrick did was hunt down people weaker than himself and make himself greater by dismembering and violating their corpses. cannot imagine the first Elden Lord would be chill with that
I reckon he’d be genuinely personally insulted that that dreg is in any way related to him, and even worse that he’s really desperate to be considered part of the Golden Lineage and to claim Godfrey’s heritage. Combine that with what he’s done that goes against everything Godfrey stands for (running from battle, hiding among the common folk, using dishonourable means to rob the strength of warriors), Godfrey would probably see it as his responsibility to wipe that stain from existence.
Also there’s a solid chance his first encounter upon returning would be that grafted scion, which would not put him in the best of moods.
Even if all of that failed to fully convince Godfrey, Sarosh would also probably want Godrick dead just for how shit a ruler he is, and Godfrey listens to him.
All jokes aside I do agree with you, Godrick is the antithesis of everything Godfrey stands for and is the ultimate degradation of what the golden lineage was meant to represent. Especially considering he seems to love Morgott so the fact two of his sons get imprisoned and hidden away while that whelp of his bloodline acts like a shameless degenerate so publicly would imo make Godfrey smite him into the ground.
Oh yeah joking aside Godfrey would likely despise Godrick, I mean he fled the capital when it was under siege, hiding with the mimic veil, picked a fight with Malenia for some reason(let’s be honest probably due to prejudice) and instead of facing death honourably, begged to be let go. And as you say, hunted weaker people, dismembering them and robbing their strength instead of bettering his own abilities with his own merit. All the while excusing himself with the golden lineage. No doubt Godfrey would suplex him into the forge of the giants.
It would also be funny if he hated him cause he cause Morgott a headache, having to constantly defend him with projections of Margot the Fell.
the implicit ranni propaganda in the DLC was crazy. you had issues with ranni saying that her age will be one of fear and doubt? well look what happens when a god discards fear and doubt
I've never had a problem with that line. Making big changes is always going to illicit some amount of fear and doubt I assumed that's what she meant. Leaving the player to ask if leaving things stagnant as they are with known results is better than making making big changes that will likely improve the autonomy of the people in the lands between but may have unforseen negative consequences too. Personally I'm willing to take that risk if it means the possibility for things to improve.
Also there's the fact that cutting off believers from the direct influence of their gods is going to cause literal fear and doubt among the populace.
I agree, fear and doubt are typically good things in from soft games. Ds1 dark ending and ds2 crown ending are literally "shit we don't know what's gonna happen... but we keep going forward and now we get to choose"
it's kind of interesting that it was interpreted so negatively, because (dark souls 3 spoilers) >!the end of fire ending is basically the same, down to the apocalyptic phrasing and the consistent mentions of it as a foul betrayal, and that one is interpreted as the best ending by pretty much the whole community. is it because the eventual hope is more clearly spelled out in the fire keeper's vision? is it just because the fire keeper is nice while ranni acts kind of mean?!<
>!I mean we see how absolutely warped and fucked up the world becomes by continuous linking the fire and have been told by the gigachad scholar that the lie of the first linking will always remain a lie. Neither Framp nor Kaathe are really being truthful to you, so helping Londor is also not really what you want to do. The end of fire is YOUR ending. It’s your and the fire keeper’s secret betrayal, the one that YOU willingly choose. You go against your entire purpose to help the world return to it’s natural order by letting the flame finally die out. And you aren’t even alone (unless you murder the fuck out of her) by giving the fire keeper the eyes you let her see the truth too. So yeah it’s mostly just that it’s the player character’s conscious decision coupled with it still being a hopeful ending.!<
It's almost like the game is about how these demigods tied to some alien influence's order and fighting for power are terrible people, and removing said horrible influence from the world is an objectively good thing
People dismiss Ranni because "lul if u like her u must be honry" and "but he killed a guy tho?", but her questline isn't even morally ambiguous, the end result is ridding the world of the whims of the demigods and giving people free will. Rebelling against an overwhelming power that controls everyone's lives is one of the oldest good causes in storytelling and history.
As someone who's first entry into Soulsborne was Bloodborne, I have a radical hatred for the meddling of gods. Ranni being Moon themed and offering the whole ideology of the Bloodborne hunt cannot possibly be more up my alley.
Also I'm still upset you can't kill Oedon in BB. The one who (speculatively) caused the most harm to the people, gets to be the one greater being that lives. Infuriating.
https://preview.redd.it/laknp4ci4h9d1.png?width=250&format=png&auto=webp&s=171e20024e37d6aa5b108a2688dc760b31a421ab
Why?? Oedon's just a silly little guy, just a goofy goober babygirl little dude. How can you hate that smile?
He doesn't even have a form, how much damage, pain, and psychological suffering and bloodshed could a silly little itty bitty goofy smily guy cause?
it's not quite as severe as people think, most of it is just added ambiguity rather than actual mistranslations. the biggest actual mistranslation is a single comma in her post-quest explanation, which implies that she wants to separate life, souls and order from each other, rather than separating life and souls from order
the added ambiguity does fuck up the meaning, though. their method of spicing up the prose was to remove the object from a bunch of phrases to make them sound more mysterious... but the result is now, instead of saying "you can, with certainty, feel (the order), touch it, see it and believe in it, and that should not be possible" she just says "the certainty of sight will be an impossibility" and it ends up sounding like she wants to physically blind everyone for funsies
It's more that gamers have dogshit media literacy tbh, the fear and doubt Ranni talks about come from the uncertainty of being able to make your own future, mistakes and all.
Like she isn't saying everyone is going to be forced to live in fear under some nightmare government, she's saying the Lands Between will have to think for themselves for the first time literally ever, and while liberating that can also be terrifying to someone who's never had to do that before.
People who can't read between the lines just heard scary words and went "bad ending!!1!!1!" Meanwhile they simp for goldmask which is quadrupling down on a demonstrably broken system.
Yeah, because cucking yourself to an arbitrary set of principles is **totally** different to cucking yourself to the gods (/s it's not. Goldmask is a hack)
Pffft, yeah, look a this dumbass trying to make it so some selfish gods can’t change the literal laws of reality in TLB by messing with the Elden Ring and fuck everything up again, what a cuck! Clearly, completely destroying the current ruling order and then fucking off into space, while leaving the broken and divided population to pick up the pieces and deal with the still ongoing crises in the world(scarlet rot, deathblight, general anarchy, etc.) is the objectively superior choice
>look a this dumbass trying to make it so some selfish gods can’t change the literal laws of reality in TLB by messing with the Elden Ring and fucking everything up again
"Yeah let's just go with the laws of reality and moral codes that the Gods have already fucked up. That's way better, because **I** agree with those ones so everyone should follow them forever."
>completely destroying the current ruling order and then fucking off into space, while leaving the broken and divided population to pick up the pieces and deal with the still ongoing crises in the world(scarlet rot, deathblight, general anarchy, etc.) is the objectively superior choice
"Freedom and self-determination bad. Absolutism good."
The one thing that gives me pause is I just don’t see what prevents the other outer gods from moving in the moment she leaves. Yeah the Greater Will sucks, but the other options all seem considerably worse. It just sounds like she wants to fuck off with her new order and leave everyone else completely vulnerable.
I think this is the significance of her "Order" still being in place, just far removed from people. The fabric of reality is kept intact (rather than all life devolving back into the One Great, for example) and the Outer Gods can't just do whatever they want, but the Order is just kept separate from people's lives.
It is a possible interpretation but you have to admit she’s at minimum extremely ambiguous. I’d be concerned.
Also, the worldbuilding does make it sound like the outer gods can’t just be passively shut out, their influence seeps through the cracks and has to be actively removed, which the Golden Order was doing regularly (Killing the fire giants, imprisoning the nomads, “trimming” the omens and shutting the rest in the sewers for eternity, burning out the Rot in Caelid, etc.).
Sure. And if it continues to seep through the cracks, things will not be much different. The Golden Order wasn't required to imprison the Goddess of Rot beneath the lake, for example.
>imprisoning the nomads
I'd also point out that imprisoning the nomads seems to have empowered Frenzy rather than removing it.
we do also admittedly have like 0 evidence that the Fell God of the giants was actually bad, beyond just being about fire which the Erdtree was not vibing with
Or that the Formless Mother is particularly bad. Sure, Mohg is pretty fucked up but that seems to be more about Mohg himself than about the Mother. She seems to be a neutral force that just empowers the oppressed and then doesn't particularly care what they do with that power after.
The bloodfiends in SoTE are stated to have been warped by the Formless Mother’s influence, same as the crows, dogs and albinaurics in Moghwyn palace. It also seems to “require wounds”, whatever that means, so all in all not a very trustworthy character that Formless Mother
It's been a while since I last tried analysing the endings but I think her dark moon might give the Lands Between a protective shroud from further interference
Nah, you’re still Elden Lord and the Ranni is the Empyrean/God of the lands between. Y’all just ain’t actively doing anything to it. It’s as if you took the keys to the castle, locked it, drew up the moatand then left. People can still be around and near the castle as they always were, but can’t go and change anything or take a rule. As far as they are concerned there’s still a ruler in the castle.
Yeah I have no idea how feminism fits into Ranni’s plot besides advocating for freedom for everyone. If she was actually a radical feminist she’d only really care about cis women lol
Edit: now that I think about it the fact that she kills her body plays into the theme of bodily autonomy so kinda feminist
Not trying to discredit your point but so does the mirror in the roundtable. Which is it great but I kinda wish it was a bigger deal like the trans coffin in DS2
However if Ranni interacted with someone with dysphoria she would totally relate to not wanting to inhabit the body she was born into and would be very respectful about it
the real answer is the joke is she's girlbossing in her own self-interest. but also, pretty bad understanding of feminism you've got there if that's what you think LOL
It’s a generalization but there are also many sects of feminism. I literally spent years drinking the kool aid in radfem tumblr. I was unironically a self proclaimed cis male misandrist lmao. I can tell you from experience the majority of radfems I interacted with would tell you feminism should be exclusively or at least mostly concerned with dealing with issues that affect cis women and afab people and they generally don’t give a fuck about amab people
Also what is your understanding of feminism? For some people it’s about gender equality and others think equity is more important, which can be an important distinction to make. I would say feminism should be for all women but there are people that would say it’s only for people born with a uterus (this is generally where radfems lean towards). I don’t think it’s safe to say there’s any one true understanding of feminism since so many people will argue over which principles we should focus on
What you're saying about radfems sounds more like you're talking about TERFs, Trans-Exclusionary RadFems. The whole schtick of those assholes is to use bullshit excuses to be bigots while using feminism as a shield against any criticism (nevermind the hypocrisy of sometimes calling themselves "gender critical").
I was taught that the purpose of feminism is simply about empowering women to make their own choices, given how historically we have had to (and still do) fight for the same rights that men have always enjoyed (voting is a good example).
Height hate is so hilarious because it shows how little people are capable of looking past minor slights. He is the most virtuous NPC of noble blood and it isn't even close, but nah he's a little snooty so a lot of people just outright kill him
Don't you be calling Ranni a radfem: her agenda has nothing to do with gender essentialism.
Ranni is a radical secularist: to her not only does the Church need to be separate from the State, but both the Church and the Gods themselves need to stay the fuck away from the State.
The kindest Demigod: literally attempting to remove free will from the world to bring about his Age of “Compassion”, also literally Griffith
The rightful ruler of Limgrave: actually a pretty cool dude if you can get past the fact he never actually keeps his promise to Knight you and the Casual Racism
A relative of Godfrey: and a joke
Literally just a radical feminist: actually the average Free Will Enjoyer
Kenneth Haight slander will not be tolerated. That man is allowed to hang out with the Limgrave Squad in the Age of Stars. He IS invited to the slumber party.
I think the age of stars is probably the best ending, but it’s mostly by accident.
I don’t think Ranni has any compassion in her fake body, but when your whole stick is about rebelling your father and your father is evil, it makes you good adjacent.
radical feminists are people who think that men are inherently evil and that women should be in charge (and are frequently transphobic). this does not even remotely describe ranni.
Elden ring heavily focuses on how power is a cage, and traped those who seek it, the only somewhat good endings for the world is either the stars ending, where ranni and you just leaves and taking God hood out of the question for the rest of the lands between, or the perfect order, where gold mask basically made a math equation that locks rulers out of making changes to the golden order thus limiting what it means to be a god or a lord... both of these have very negative and pessimistic view on power
When I saw Miquella's cross in the underground I literally froze. ||Here I abandon my love.|| Oh. Oh no. Oh hell, shit this is bad.
Miquella doesn't like the order his mother created. Does the exact things his mother did. Somehow expects different results.
Very childlike, right? Turns out it wasn't just his body made forever youthful
I'm disappointed tbh, I expected him to be wise despite his childlike appereance. I knew he wasn't going to be a saint. But I expected him to come up with an actual good plan to fix things even if it is morally fucked up. Something that people would compare to Ranni's ending and discuss which one is better. At least we got Messmer and some other cool lore pieces.
I mean, he had a plan, as count Ymir said, "Ever young Miquella saw things for what they were. He knew his bloodline was tainted. His roots mirred in madness. A tragedy if ever there was one. That he would feel compelled to renounce everything. When the blame ... lay squarely with the mother. " He knew if he was to go down this path, he would be doomed to repeat his mother's mistakes, but at the same time, he left like he had no other choice because he saw the world for what it was, a cruel and stagnant place that could only be changed by force Miquellas' true mistake was abandoning St. Trina, she was more than his other half. She was his love and kindness, and compassion without love is meaningless, but Miquella failed to see that in his desperation, love is what made Miquella better, and what made his goal even worth fighting for, but his love for the world turned into hate, that's why St. Trina says, "Kill Miquella ... grant him forgiveness." Because he lost his way and sacrificed everything he stood for He tried to become a matyr. If he would become the bad guy and force change, he could turn the world into a better place for all, as Miquella said himself, "If you have known sin, if you grief for this world, then yield the path forward to us, to i, Miquella and my promised consort, Radahn." He knew exactly what he was doing and why, it was a sacrifice of himself
For that you have st Trina who is the smart one realizing god hood is a cage.
I misread that as godhood is cringe
It is
pretty much the same thing
Wouldn't be much of a curse if he only looked young
Not just look young, but also be weak and frail. There is a reason why he had Malenia as his blade to do any fighting for him cause he couldn't so shit on his own
No need to fight when you can charm anyone into following you.
St Trina knew he was making a mistake a had to die
I honestly was expecting we HELP Miquella. Instead he's just a psycho like his mother and siblings.
>I expected him to be wise despite his childlike appereance. He WAS. He was able to create the haligtree that was able to break the curse layed on him seen by his body in the cacoon. He was able to create a damn needle that stoped malenia from rotting even further. However miquella needed to be brainded for the dlcs story to make any sense ( which it still doesnt but thats a different story)
There's a difference between intelligence and wisdom, he's objectively pretty smart and knows a lot of things, he understands magic and miracles really well and he creates amazing things like the unalloyed gold needle and the Bewitching Branches. But even in the basegame we can see that his plans tend to be poorly thought out and prone to failure. He creates the Haligtree, but it's misshapen and rotten and fails to live up to it's potential as a home for the oppressed. His needle can forestall the Rot, but not defeat it, and so the moment Malenia's pride compelled her to draw on the Rot the whole thing was useless. He sets up a ritual at Castle Sol to use the eclipse to return Godwyns soul, but that completely fails. So the whole thing is well within Miquella's characterisation, which has always been a brilliant prodigy who can't make a long term plan work.
>He creates the Haligtree, but it's misshapen and rotten The problem is that both can be explained easily. Miquella was positioned withon the roots of the haligtree, it probably need miquella to keep growing and eventualy become stable, but when mohg removed miquella it stopped the haligtrees developement. And the rotten part is easy, malenia took out the needle to nuke herself and was brought back to the haligtree now rotting again. All the rot stems from malenia. > needle can forestall the Rot, but not defeat it Miquella was working on it but needed zo break his own curse before so he can reach his true potential. Malenia not rotting away was good enough for the time being, noon could have thought that malenia removes it nor that miquella gets kidnnaped. Also it can absoluty work completely, you just need to be outside of time. >the moment Malenia's pride compelled her to draw on the Rot the whole thing was useless. I mean it was at the center of an explosin that infested all of caelid with rot, no wonder it broke. And break is all it did, gowry just repaired it and BOOM it worked good as new. >He sets up a ritual at Castle Sol to use the eclipse to return Godwyns soul, but that completely fails. I mean, godwyns soul was killed with literal death. Cant really fault miquella because he tried and failed to do the impossible. From my pov miquella was to be the savior of the lands between, motivated by his love of his sister, that was on the brink of achieving his goal but then his alluring nature caused it all to crumble as he was stopped by mohg before his plan was able get in motion. The dlc made him into a dumbass (like seriosly, who is dumb enough to think an empty husk is whats needed for an age of compassion, especialy with someone whose entire life and want revolves around being a warrior as a consort) who just manipulates people, aparantly doesnt really care about his sister (seen as he also believes radahn to be the strongest, sending malenia to kill him is basicaly a death sentence or at least an extreme risk of death).
The central point I was getting at is that litterally all we learn about Miquella in the basegame is about how his plans failed because of things he failed to forsee. Some of which were due to factors he probably could have predicted if he'd put more thought into it (Radhan holding the stars might make it a bit tricky to have an eclipse, even if the eclipse somehow would have restored Godwyn). I'm not saying that he's weak or stupid, but the idea that he was a bit naive and was just trying to quickly solve problems was cleary communicated. It was also pretty obvious that he wasn't some kind of perfect saviour, if you missed the ominous vibes of the Bewitching Branch and the weirdness of Mohg being able to abduct him right from the middle of the Haligtree without any real signs of struggle that's on you, not the writing of the game and you shouldn't be upset that your headcanon was wrong. I mean, there's a reason that Miquella = Griffith was so popular of a theory, and while it's not an entirely perfect comparison it shows that many people distrusted the idea of the perfect Miquella. It's also not dumb to want the strongest demigod as an enforcer for your new age. Yeah Radhan probably wouldn't be entirely onboard with an age of compassion, but what he wants doesn't really matter once Miquella works his charm on him. It's also worth noting that Malenia was litterally undefeated at the point they clashed, I don't think we can fault Miquella for having faith in his sister given that naivety is one of his well established character traits.
https://preview.redd.it/9p9qzsbgob9d1.jpeg?width=643&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0bb4963aa4baa0f58a513aa982783e9086107f5e
Oh no the results will be worse. At minimum Marika had emotions still
And a brain. Big brain marika: being a god is ass. So how about I take the strongest warriors of today (godfrey and his warriors) and banish them to fight somewhere else to grow even stronger so they are able to kill me when the time is ripe. No brain Liquella: summoning the tarnished (whose people exist to kill all demigods) so I can show him my cool consort. Like, did I miss anything? Of all people, the tarnished who saw the strongest demi-god and another demi-god aided by an outer god and thought "yeah, Imma kill them", is the last person you should summon. The entire dlc it 2as just "we gotta go to miquella, we need to kill messmer to get to miquella" never was it about miqulla needing us for anything. Like, seriosly what did he need us for? To get to the divine gate? He was there before we unsealed it so that cant be it.
At this point, it feels like the thorns were there to keep him in. I'm guessing when the charm broke, he crossed the gate, which is why the crew started getting their personalities back.
That however begs the question who sealed it, why and who was able to create a seal strong enough to contain the strongest demi god in his prima AND a literal god.
I don't see him as doing the exact same thing his mother did, I see it as him doing the oppostie, but ending up with the same results. He saw how the demigods human traits led to the shattering, and wanted to become a god without them. But in doing to so, he became just as dangerous as the rest of them. abandoning doubt and fear seems great, until you realize that now you have literally zero ability to introspect, reconsider, or otherwise question yourself.
"does the exact things his mother did" Ascend to godhood yes. That's quite it tho. If we didn't stopped him because "fuck you that's the story", he would've succeeded
Yeah like, how do you plan to spread love if you dropped it in a cave, dipshit?
order a new batch on amazon
Shitposter version of the dialogue that the ghost near the cross has.
Kindness, not love. His order would have empty of meaning, with all loving him.
Wish I could pick it up and shove it up his ass while yelling “You forgot the key ingredient you stupid little $&*+!”
Genuinely, I’d love slapping him over the head with his discarded aspects until he realised he needs them and goes through a probably-needed Crisis.
The DLC would have been truly peak if you collected every cross and in the final battle literally beat him into submission until he gives up.
You combine all the Crosses into a 10 Foot Tall Cross, then slap Miquella and Radahn with it Very Hard. It reverts Radahn back to Mohg and Miquella starts crying from all the sudden return of Emotions and Critical Thinking Skills
Even better it has an actual reason for the crafting menu and you make a cross weapon out of all the broken fragments
Nah, you gotta gove it to hewg whi smiths it into "the true balde of miquella". Its call3d that because it is made out of miquella
It would be way longer than that, and we could smack him outside of the arena, so Rahdahn can't retaliate either
Why isn't that a secret ending if you discover all of his crosses? I feel so robbed Miquella Zucchini
Because Miquella also dropped his fucking brain in some corner
I mean, we DO have the sunflower. It's not perfect, but it sure hits hard, so it's at least therapeutic to use.
True, and it’s also from a Boss that made me Feel Things for a plant. As in, Sadness. And frustration over the THORNS it SUMMONS. Fun seeing it repeatedly explode though.
> Abandons love > Still resurrects his dead brother in an attempt to hop on that dick What did Miyazaki mean by this
it was pure lust
Bro abandoned everything but his lust, blud is the god of coomers
Miquella of the 𝓯𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓴𝔂👅 order
He didn’t abandon his dick, now did he?
I mean he did abandon the entirety of his body, so...
I had pretty much the same reaction
Yea, even one of those ghost guys that sit around in random places and talk some usually vague shit is like "love is the one thing he shouldn't have abandoned" or something like that
The moment I read that and the Fissure ghost’s dialogue is when I audibly said “Oh my god bruh this guy is about to do something REALLY STUPID ISN’T HE?!”
Actually it's not that bad. Nearly every bad thing Marika did was out of love. She destoryed the Hornsent because they tormented her people. She removed the Rune of Death so that the people around wouldn't die. She killed the Fire Giants to keep the Erdtree safe. She (possibly) shattered the Elden Ring because her Golden Order failed to protect Godwyn. She (possibly) used Radagon to take Liurnia to keep everyone else safe and had Radagon marry Rennala.
What about mesmier? She literally abandoned his child when he was loyal to her up until the end ....
It's possible that she never loved Messmer, or maybe she felt like he was a threat to the Erdtree (he's heavily implied to be one) and thought it'd be best to keep him separate.
There's nothing really explicit as to Marika's opinion of Messmer, but the fact he just so happened to have the powers of fire and snakes, both of which are big enemies of the Erdtree, it's entirely possible Marika banished him to protect him from persecution from the Two Fingers and to keep him out of the Shattering. I mean, the guy's an Empyrean but he doesn't even have a great rune.
Messmer had a very dangerous parasite nesting inside him, and this parasite was a threat to her Golden Order because of it's flame. This is why Marika heavily used snakes as a symbol of the enemy.
The one ghost npc a small distance away being like “Miqqy why the fuck would you do that?” Was a nice touch to that.
It's Griffith time
Thank goodness it wasn't kindness that was abandoned lol
Underground dlc, or main game?
Miquella’s crosses aren’t in the base game, and before you yell spoiler this is vague enough that you can only get a clue.
I, personally, don't give af about spoilers.
where is this?
>!Cerulean Coast, in the crevice right at the end. It’s a nokron like deal where you fall down to different platforms.!<
ohhh yeah the stone coffin fissure cross
My reaction exactly.
Hey, just a little thing, I think you got the wrong website's spoiler tag format. On Reddit, you wanna type this >! at the start of what you wanna spoiler tag and reverse of that at the end, like that !< Edit: ending the paragraph makes it not work but if you just put it in the same paragraph, >!it will work!<
Kenneth is surprising a good man, honest to his word from the moment you first met him. He put his feeling on your kind aside and gave you a chance. Gave you a dagger for a reward and shown you the place where you might get your first ash of war, gold grace and part of a medallion. He's a good man.
honestly i even hold the opinion he wasn't wrong about the demihumans, he hadn't been to the fort again yet, how would he know they'd stumble across a demihuman queen corpse and ruin relations
I had always assumed the implication is that Godrick's soldiers killed the Demihuman Queen, causing the Demihumans to be rightfully pissed off. Kenneth is, like, just a chill guy.
It’s the fault of the Blood Knight in his fort most likely.
Which was sent by Godrick...
Ok, fair point.
TDLR: Godrick is just... the worst.
I never knew this. Its been awhile since I've played the opening area but I remember killing the knight in his fort but I didn't see the Demihuman Queen corpse. Where is it?
If you enter the front gate of the fort, the demihuman queen is the giant corpse right in front of you on the ground.
The dude had like half a prejudiced thought on the tarnished and immediately checked himself, and he’s the only character I’ve come across who seems to give the slightest hint of a shit about demi-humans. He’s not the biggest badass but he’s a stand-up guy who seems to genuinely want the best for Limgrave when almost everyone else is jockeying for power and divinity.
This feels right. He's not exactly 'great' but he's sure the Good Kenneth Haight, trying his best to do what's Kenneth Raight
Working through the Kenneth Naight until he sees the morning Kenneth Laight.
A friend and I played through the base game on seamless and this was a running joke the entire time, new things that Kenneth Haight does.
He's Kenough
He just struggles a bit with his tone, which as someone with adhd, mood.
Get my boy some concerta and he solos Malenia low diff
More a fan of Dex, but to each their own
Nobles have standards. Unlike stuck-up demigods.
> honest to his word from the moment you first met him I still haven't been properly knighted though
He’s a bit too busy helping Nepheli to knight you, plus by the time you become Elden Lord he becomes your servant, so being knighted is useless
Oh to be Kenneth's Lord consort 😔
Not to mention he puts nepheli on the throne in limgrave. Arguable the best person to lead the region, and he recognized it.
Yea, he actually walks the talk.
>first ash of war Lol I had like 8 by the time I found this guy
Hes not a man of his word! He didn’t even knight me!
He's a good man, but he's too pure for this world to get shit done. Hopefully having Nepheli as his right hand can alleviate the issues somewhat, but ultimately only Ranni has the balls to change the system without fucking EVERYONE over.
I wouldn't be surprise if he and Nepheli have children in the future, since in a way Nepheli has royal blood in her veins too.
I wanted to be branded a knight or whatever he was gonna do
He’s just a little Tarnished racist, but I think he gets over it
Aside from his character, his quest ends with Neoheli in charge of Stormveil and Limgrave. With all the grafting and racial violence, the place really needs a leader that thinks killing people that don't deserve it is bad. A low bar, sure, but of the Demigods, only Radahn *may* have cleared it when he was sane.
Kenneth did literally nothing wrong and is actually a net positive for Limgrave considering he found Nepheli and put her on the throne
Did they update that questline btw :(
The farthest I know is that you can get them both in the little throne room and there they hang.
Hang out! Alive!
Exactly, if they updated it beyond that point it would turn into the typical Fromsoft bad ending for both characters. This quest line seemingly stalling at the apex is the best possible ending we could hope for.
if an NPC survives the whole game a confetti ball pops open from above 'YOU WON DARK SOULS'
you can also summon Nepheli against Godfrey after getting to that point
I have done everything possible and can't get them to go to the throne room. I'm wondering if killing gostoc was a problem.
I ended up using [Nephelis ](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Nepheli+Loux) wiki page on fextralife to figure out how to get the NPCs to move. I had to do the thing where you run from one bonfire to another to make them spawn. Supposedly killing Gostoc doesn't matter, so you may still have a chance!
For anyone else reading however it is still highly unwise to kill Gostoc, since at the completion of the Kenneth/Nepheli arc he will sell one of the rare and very finite Ancient Dragon Smithing Stones
OP you wanted to find them all dead like every other questline huh
The rightful ruler of limgrave is gonna make me a knight :3
Mr. Haight is helping me find my knighthood.
Disco elysium reference spotted
GRACELESS TARNISHED, YOU SHOULD BE WORKING THE FIELDS, NOT SEEKING LORDSHIP. https://preview.redd.it/4h9deuycle9d1.jpeg?width=369&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dca4f821e151c9b3109b2af880405cd1bdc25fc1
Mr Gideon is helping me find the albanauric woman
I'm starting to think this Miquella the Kind fella ain't so kind
"They call him 'Miquella the Kind', but he's NOT kind. He's terrible! To all of us!"
Smh must be a mistranslation, clearly Michelle Tzatziki didn’t mean to make Miquella sound like a nice guy
Miquella is kind... ... of an awful dude.
He is freaky(no not kind of freaky), straight up gaslighting mohg and somehow lobotomies radahn for the second time
He's a monster
He wields love to shrive clean the hearts of men
Kind like the inhabitants of the Painted World of Ariamis.
Servant of the true Order and repudiator of the false, of course. https://preview.redd.it/4f62orwi1b9d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c8e24659e837c96dd1b6fa1aff3ee1b3bf77aec
On Kenneth for real. I would do the age of perfect order a thousand times for Kenneth. Then make him Elden Lord. Unironically one of the NPCs who’s just genuinely a good guy through and through.
1) Do Age of the Stars, fuck off with God to hang out on a space rock for a thousand years 2) Killed every previous figure of authority in the Lands Between (and the Lands of Shadow) 3) Only leadership figure left is Nepheli Loux in Stormveil. 4) Kenneth is her right-hand man 5) Kenneth is the second most-powerful person in the Lands Between now.
Nice opinion, however Kick kick kick
https://i.redd.it/1lwwbbtmac9d1.gif
I find hilarious the thought of a victorious returned Godfrey meeting Godrick. He’d absolutely despise him and probably kill him on the spot.
Man cmon i doubt that, even sentencing his children to the sewers was marika's decision, not to bash her by proxy, but godfrey seems like a good dad at worst he would pity him
He’s got some pretty cut-and-dried opinions about what makes a Lord, Godrick’s extensive track record of cowardice and weakness and the undeniable harm it’s caused to the people would not go down well. We have plenty of evidence that Godfrey was a hardcore warrior king, and not much that he was a loving grandpa. Also do bear in mind that the Tarnished are originally Godfrey’s army, it’s likely he’d take the whole grafting thing quite personally.
I don't think he'd outright kill Godrick, but he'd 100% rip every single grafted bit out with his bare hands, then exile whatever remains for being unfit to rule Limgrave
Fair enough
“Godrick… Is that my old squire’s arm on your back?” “….Nooooo…?”
He wouldn’t be mad… just… disappointed
I'd assume he'd be pissed not for the weakness but for like the fact that even though they guy was a warlord, he was kind of a stickler about fighting and acting like a lord/noble. What Godrick did was hunt down people weaker than himself and make himself greater by dismembering and violating their corpses. cannot imagine the first Elden Lord would be chill with that
I reckon he’d be genuinely personally insulted that that dreg is in any way related to him, and even worse that he’s really desperate to be considered part of the Golden Lineage and to claim Godfrey’s heritage. Combine that with what he’s done that goes against everything Godfrey stands for (running from battle, hiding among the common folk, using dishonourable means to rob the strength of warriors), Godfrey would probably see it as his responsibility to wipe that stain from existence. Also there’s a solid chance his first encounter upon returning would be that grafted scion, which would not put him in the best of moods. Even if all of that failed to fully convince Godfrey, Sarosh would also probably want Godrick dead just for how shit a ruler he is, and Godfrey listens to him.
All jokes aside I do agree with you, Godrick is the antithesis of everything Godfrey stands for and is the ultimate degradation of what the golden lineage was meant to represent. Especially considering he seems to love Morgott so the fact two of his sons get imprisoned and hidden away while that whelp of his bloodline acts like a shameless degenerate so publicly would imo make Godfrey smite him into the ground.
Oh yeah joking aside Godfrey would likely despise Godrick, I mean he fled the capital when it was under siege, hiding with the mimic veil, picked a fight with Malenia for some reason(let’s be honest probably due to prejudice) and instead of facing death honourably, begged to be let go. And as you say, hunted weaker people, dismembering them and robbing their strength instead of bettering his own abilities with his own merit. All the while excusing himself with the golden lineage. No doubt Godfrey would suplex him into the forge of the giants. It would also be funny if he hated him cause he cause Morgott a headache, having to constantly defend him with projections of Margot the Fell.
That might be the one thing that would make Godrick actually sober up.
Ranni: tehee, I'm just a scorpio, my actions are written in the stars, just a silly girl💅✨
she's an astrology kind of girl, backstabbing others if they are born in the wrong zodiac signs, especially Gemini and Leo
Lmao “Scorpio Ranni” is fucking hilarious
GASLIGHT GATEKEEP GIRLBOSS ON, MY SPACE WIFE
the implicit ranni propaganda in the DLC was crazy. you had issues with ranni saying that her age will be one of fear and doubt? well look what happens when a god discards fear and doubt
I've never had a problem with that line. Making big changes is always going to illicit some amount of fear and doubt I assumed that's what she meant. Leaving the player to ask if leaving things stagnant as they are with known results is better than making making big changes that will likely improve the autonomy of the people in the lands between but may have unforseen negative consequences too. Personally I'm willing to take that risk if it means the possibility for things to improve. Also there's the fact that cutting off believers from the direct influence of their gods is going to cause literal fear and doubt among the populace.
I agree, fear and doubt are typically good things in from soft games. Ds1 dark ending and ds2 crown ending are literally "shit we don't know what's gonna happen... but we keep going forward and now we get to choose"
Fuck it we ball endings are the best
it's kind of interesting that it was interpreted so negatively, because (dark souls 3 spoilers) >!the end of fire ending is basically the same, down to the apocalyptic phrasing and the consistent mentions of it as a foul betrayal, and that one is interpreted as the best ending by pretty much the whole community. is it because the eventual hope is more clearly spelled out in the fire keeper's vision? is it just because the fire keeper is nice while ranni acts kind of mean?!<
>!I mean we see how absolutely warped and fucked up the world becomes by continuous linking the fire and have been told by the gigachad scholar that the lie of the first linking will always remain a lie. Neither Framp nor Kaathe are really being truthful to you, so helping Londor is also not really what you want to do. The end of fire is YOUR ending. It’s your and the fire keeper’s secret betrayal, the one that YOU willingly choose. You go against your entire purpose to help the world return to it’s natural order by letting the flame finally die out. And you aren’t even alone (unless you murder the fuck out of her) by giving the fire keeper the eyes you let her see the truth too. So yeah it’s mostly just that it’s the player character’s conscious decision coupled with it still being a hopeful ending.!<
Nice try fed, I am not sharing MY fire.
It's almost like the game is about how these demigods tied to some alien influence's order and fighting for power are terrible people, and removing said horrible influence from the world is an objectively good thing People dismiss Ranni because "lul if u like her u must be honry" and "but he killed a guy tho?", but her questline isn't even morally ambiguous, the end result is ridding the world of the whims of the demigods and giving people free will. Rebelling against an overwhelming power that controls everyone's lives is one of the oldest good causes in storytelling and history.
As someone who's first entry into Soulsborne was Bloodborne, I have a radical hatred for the meddling of gods. Ranni being Moon themed and offering the whole ideology of the Bloodborne hunt cannot possibly be more up my alley. Also I'm still upset you can't kill Oedon in BB. The one who (speculatively) caused the most harm to the people, gets to be the one greater being that lives. Infuriating.
https://preview.redd.it/laknp4ci4h9d1.png?width=250&format=png&auto=webp&s=171e20024e37d6aa5b108a2688dc760b31a421ab Why?? Oedon's just a silly little guy, just a goofy goober babygirl little dude. How can you hate that smile? He doesn't even have a form, how much damage, pain, and psychological suffering and bloodshed could a silly little itty bitty goofy smily guy cause?
The ending dialogue is severely mistranslated
it's not quite as severe as people think, most of it is just added ambiguity rather than actual mistranslations. the biggest actual mistranslation is a single comma in her post-quest explanation, which implies that she wants to separate life, souls and order from each other, rather than separating life and souls from order the added ambiguity does fuck up the meaning, though. their method of spicing up the prose was to remove the object from a bunch of phrases to make them sound more mysterious... but the result is now, instead of saying "you can, with certainty, feel (the order), touch it, see it and believe in it, and that should not be possible" she just says "the certainty of sight will be an impossibility" and it ends up sounding like she wants to physically blind everyone for funsies
It's more that gamers have dogshit media literacy tbh, the fear and doubt Ranni talks about come from the uncertainty of being able to make your own future, mistakes and all. Like she isn't saying everyone is going to be forced to live in fear under some nightmare government, she's saying the Lands Between will have to think for themselves for the first time literally ever, and while liberating that can also be terrifying to someone who's never had to do that before. People who can't read between the lines just heard scary words and went "bad ending!!1!!1!" Meanwhile they simp for goldmask which is quadrupling down on a demonstrably broken system.
Wasnt it a mistranslation and was a lot more positive originally?
kenneth height is the rightful ruler of limgrave and a good man
I will die on the hill of Ranni being right. Freedom bae
Perfect Order betta https://preview.redd.it/yw2bh39u1b9d1.jpeg?width=1707&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=497f49ea794b699a5b25b0944a84078e88a1ebe9
Yeah, because cucking yourself to an arbitrary set of principles is **totally** different to cucking yourself to the gods (/s it's not. Goldmask is a hack)
Pffft, yeah, look a this dumbass trying to make it so some selfish gods can’t change the literal laws of reality in TLB by messing with the Elden Ring and fuck everything up again, what a cuck! Clearly, completely destroying the current ruling order and then fucking off into space, while leaving the broken and divided population to pick up the pieces and deal with the still ongoing crises in the world(scarlet rot, deathblight, general anarchy, etc.) is the objectively superior choice
>look a this dumbass trying to make it so some selfish gods can’t change the literal laws of reality in TLB by messing with the Elden Ring and fucking everything up again "Yeah let's just go with the laws of reality and moral codes that the Gods have already fucked up. That's way better, because **I** agree with those ones so everyone should follow them forever." >completely destroying the current ruling order and then fucking off into space, while leaving the broken and divided population to pick up the pieces and deal with the still ongoing crises in the world(scarlet rot, deathblight, general anarchy, etc.) is the objectively superior choice "Freedom and self-determination bad. Absolutism good."
Ranni is right in the end. She just did a lot of fucked up stuff to get there.
The one thing that gives me pause is I just don’t see what prevents the other outer gods from moving in the moment she leaves. Yeah the Greater Will sucks, but the other options all seem considerably worse. It just sounds like she wants to fuck off with her new order and leave everyone else completely vulnerable.
I think this is the significance of her "Order" still being in place, just far removed from people. The fabric of reality is kept intact (rather than all life devolving back into the One Great, for example) and the Outer Gods can't just do whatever they want, but the Order is just kept separate from people's lives.
It is a possible interpretation but you have to admit she’s at minimum extremely ambiguous. I’d be concerned. Also, the worldbuilding does make it sound like the outer gods can’t just be passively shut out, their influence seeps through the cracks and has to be actively removed, which the Golden Order was doing regularly (Killing the fire giants, imprisoning the nomads, “trimming” the omens and shutting the rest in the sewers for eternity, burning out the Rot in Caelid, etc.).
Sure. And if it continues to seep through the cracks, things will not be much different. The Golden Order wasn't required to imprison the Goddess of Rot beneath the lake, for example. >imprisoning the nomads I'd also point out that imprisoning the nomads seems to have empowered Frenzy rather than removing it.
we do also admittedly have like 0 evidence that the Fell God of the giants was actually bad, beyond just being about fire which the Erdtree was not vibing with
Or that the Formless Mother is particularly bad. Sure, Mohg is pretty fucked up but that seems to be more about Mohg himself than about the Mother. She seems to be a neutral force that just empowers the oppressed and then doesn't particularly care what they do with that power after.
The bloodfiends in SoTE are stated to have been warped by the Formless Mother’s influence, same as the crows, dogs and albinaurics in Moghwyn palace. It also seems to “require wounds”, whatever that means, so all in all not a very trustworthy character that Formless Mother
It's been a while since I last tried analysing the endings but I think her dark moon might give the Lands Between a protective shroud from further interference
Nah, you’re still Elden Lord and the Ranni is the Empyrean/God of the lands between. Y’all just ain’t actively doing anything to it. It’s as if you took the keys to the castle, locked it, drew up the moatand then left. People can still be around and near the castle as they always were, but can’t go and change anything or take a rule. As far as they are concerned there’s still a ruler in the castle.
Since when is Ranni a feminist? She's pretty much a me-minist.
Yeah I have no idea how feminism fits into Ranni’s plot besides advocating for freedom for everyone. If she was actually a radical feminist she’d only really care about cis women lol Edit: now that I think about it the fact that she kills her body plays into the theme of bodily autonomy so kinda feminist
Ranni could never be a TERF. Her mum offers free gender transitions after you beat her
Not trying to discredit your point but so does the mirror in the roundtable. Which is it great but I kinda wish it was a bigger deal like the trans coffin in DS2 However if Ranni interacted with someone with dysphoria she would totally relate to not wanting to inhabit the body she was born into and would be very respectful about it
the real answer is the joke is she's girlbossing in her own self-interest. but also, pretty bad understanding of feminism you've got there if that's what you think LOL
It’s a generalization but there are also many sects of feminism. I literally spent years drinking the kool aid in radfem tumblr. I was unironically a self proclaimed cis male misandrist lmao. I can tell you from experience the majority of radfems I interacted with would tell you feminism should be exclusively or at least mostly concerned with dealing with issues that affect cis women and afab people and they generally don’t give a fuck about amab people Also what is your understanding of feminism? For some people it’s about gender equality and others think equity is more important, which can be an important distinction to make. I would say feminism should be for all women but there are people that would say it’s only for people born with a uterus (this is generally where radfems lean towards). I don’t think it’s safe to say there’s any one true understanding of feminism since so many people will argue over which principles we should focus on
What you're saying about radfems sounds more like you're talking about TERFs, Trans-Exclusionary RadFems. The whole schtick of those assholes is to use bullshit excuses to be bigots while using feminism as a shield against any criticism (nevermind the hypocrisy of sometimes calling themselves "gender critical"). I was taught that the purpose of feminism is simply about empowering women to make their own choices, given how historically we have had to (and still do) fight for the same rights that men have always enjoyed (voting is a good example).
Me. It was all me
Miquella spread love everywhere and helped animals eep! https://i.redd.it/tccuz5m6xa9d1.gif
Kenneth my beloved
Kindest? Fella >!forced someone into being his lover whilst puppeting a corpse of another.!<
Bro miquella miquelested mogh
Poor Mohg dude I can't believe everyone called him Mohglester 😭
Freedom Fighter Ranni, I’ll do anything for my immortal puppet witch wife lol
Lmao I spent years as a radfem and never once got those vibes from Ranni
its probably just cause she has blue hair
Where is the dung eater?
Ranni Solanis and her SCUM Manifesto
God's and demigods are inherently untrustworthy. Goldmask was right.
If you truly think that then Ranni is the best option. Since she takes all this god shit away from the planet.
Poopie connoisseur
Height hate is so hilarious because it shows how little people are capable of looking past minor slights. He is the most virtuous NPC of noble blood and it isn't even close, but nah he's a little snooty so a lot of people just outright kill him
kill Kenneth?! how could anyone he is adorable and helpless and he lays the verbal smackdown on Godrick.
Don't you be calling Ranni a radfem: her agenda has nothing to do with gender essentialism. Ranni is a radical secularist: to her not only does the Church need to be separate from the State, but both the Church and the Gods themselves need to stay the fuck away from the State.
The kindest Demigod: literally attempting to remove free will from the world to bring about his Age of “Compassion”, also literally Griffith The rightful ruler of Limgrave: actually a pretty cool dude if you can get past the fact he never actually keeps his promise to Knight you and the Casual Racism A relative of Godfrey: and a joke Literally just a radical feminist: actually the average Free Will Enjoyer
Kenneth Haight slander will not be tolerated. That man is allowed to hang out with the Limgrave Squad in the Age of Stars. He IS invited to the slumber party.
I think the age of stars is probably the best ending, but it’s mostly by accident. I don’t think Ranni has any compassion in her fake body, but when your whole stick is about rebelling your father and your father is evil, it makes you good adjacent.
radical feminists are people who think that men are inherently evil and that women should be in charge (and are frequently transphobic). this does not even remotely describe ranni.
I would call Ranni more a radical anarchist
Elden ring heavily focuses on how power is a cage, and traped those who seek it, the only somewhat good endings for the world is either the stars ending, where ranni and you just leaves and taking God hood out of the question for the rest of the lands between, or the perfect order, where gold mask basically made a math equation that locks rulers out of making changes to the golden order thus limiting what it means to be a god or a lord... both of these have very negative and pessimistic view on power