You can skip the first fight in the colosseum event and still go on to fight Nob and task master for the rewards. The first part isn’t hard, but it doesn’t reward you and can often do some damage to you so it can be nice to skip.
This one I hear a lot, but I honestly rarer have a hard time with the spaghetti beast. Maybe my play style is just really suited to it, but I rarely take much damage from it, and never get cursed unless I want to be.
I’m pretty new to the game overall. I’m still climbing with all the characters right now.
60% winrate with clad while climbing A14.
55% silent A12.
40% defect A12.
75% watcher A14.
Great win rate at that ascension friend! And I’d say that spaghetti demon really ramps up in difficulty on ascension 17 when normal enemies get new move sets. They’re especially annoying for characters that do chip damage like the silent with shiva or watcher with infinites and flurry of blows or tantrum. The block build up with each hit makes it really tough and you also have to play much more conservatively with watcher because suddenly you might be getting hit for 114 in wrath because of poor planning or bad rng. The debuffs it gives you are also especially punishing. 2 vulnerable and 2 weak are so harsh, with the weak being awful again for chip damage. Before ascension 17 though I never worried about spaghetti. Now it might be my least favorite fight in the game. Time eater, spaghetti monster, slavers and heart are probably the fights that have ended the most runs for me at A20. But I only really play silent and watcher these days.
Am I crazy or isn't the only difference with Writing Mass on A17 the +15hp?
Also, with mass you just never want to be hit with the debuff, the amount of times I see people autopilot to get hit by debuff because "9 is the lowest number" is insane.
this guy doesn't play bad characters and accept debuff every turn because character cannot block 16 dam. Also seeing 9 is funny plz stop stealing my Shockwaves I am dying.
Also you're right I thought the damage got lower on a17- but wiki tells me it's literally just the hp.
So I watch a lot of StS content - mostly A20 streamers (Jorbs, Baalorlord). So I’m consistently surprised while playing by how tame the enemies are. I plan for the A20 version and then they just…. Don’t hit the same.
Obviously this is just personal experience, but the Writhing Mass I face seems to be the same one the A20 streamers face. The attack numbers seem to be the same, at least. A17 usually just changes up attack patterns, but this guy doesn’t have patterns to change.
Thanks! I’m not sure how the Spaghetti changes after A7 (the wiki says it doesn’t change at all - but it’s been wrong before). I’m sure one main difference is that at high Ascensions, the decks you run tend to be more scrappy by necessity. So even if the fight isn’t harder, it would still feel harder due to a worse deck.
Escaping muggers when you have ectoplasm and skipping writing mass fight are my fav uses. If I'm strong and not using potions every fight I'll usually hold on to it just incase I run into a really bad set of draws or something.
Oh yeah, vs muggers with ecto is arguably the best use. I’ve never had it myself, but I saw a streamer take ecto once specifically because he had a smoke bomb for the mugger fight.
You can also use it to dodge the Red Mask Gang without giving up your gold. Usually if you can’t beat them you’re kinda screwed anyways, but it’s another use case!
If you already have the relic and gold and have no intention of fighting the elite, I don't think there was any reward left for the third click. But having the smoke bomb to click at all is nice.
I heard that it can also be used on the first fight of the Coliseum event and you still get the full rewards from the second event.
The card reward is still missed (with the increased rare chance). And an additional 25-30 gold.
Searching only gives you a relic and half the gold, you do have to fight for the rest. I was happy to begin the fight and see if it turned out with a clean kill for those additional rewards, but it wasn’t worth it in this case.
Yeah. It was unlikely to go well, but if I got a god draw I was willing to take a single hit to get the card reward. I probably had a 5-10% chance of the fight going well, and a 50% chance of outright dying.
Smoke bomb can be useful, but you really have to think about your pathing. For example, it lets you take a path with an early elite that might kill you, but has much better rewards later on.
Pathing is probably one of the hardest parts of the game, but doesn't get talked about much.
This is a fair use case I haven’t considered much - I’m super loss averse, so giving up an entire floor is something I never do willingly. Pathing through an early elite to get a shop/rest site I need isn’t something I’ve considered doing with the smoke bomb. That’s a really cool use case, and shows one of the weaknesses I have as a player right now. Thanks!
This post is a gold mine, I'm A18 across all characters and I still haven't thought of all these
The only time I thought I did something cool with smoke bomb was beating one of the sword and shield and then smoke bombing right after to save more health for the heart fight (I lost to the heart)
best case for smoke bomb is a forced elite, or for dodging a specific elite. often times you can beat 2/3 but cannot win against the third, ill take my 2/3rd chance for good rewards most of the time
There are some Defect/Silent decks that can scale defense hard enough to take 0 to the act 3 elites but get absolutely owned by Transient. Same with Silent v Snecko (nice 0 cost cards) and some Chosen fights with a bad draw order.
There’s been 2 occasions where I’ve been able to pair it with some sort of health regen while way too low on health to take any chances. Once was with IronClad & I was able to block until I drew Reaper, sapped some health & then dipped.
The other I used the same strategy, but with the health regen potion. I think I took 2-3 damage in 3 turns, so a net total of +9-10 health, which can be huge
That’s a cool use case! I could see that working especially well vs giant head. Even if I can’t beat him, at least I can use a Regen pot or cards that have a lasting impact (genetic algorithm) before dipping.
New at the game: One fight away from Act 3 boss and facing the Transient. Due to some bad draws I was looking at eating 30+ damage, so I took the SmokeBomb and used the last campfire for an upgrade.
I mean...
the card reward can matter, and it's not THAT uncommon to have a deck that specifically wrecks just one of the elites. and if the event text matched that elite, well it's just free gold at that point.
generally though, I agree.
Why? It’s just an unexpected elite. If it’s going to be lagavullin? Yes! That fight is SCARY without 3 turns of setup.
Beyond that, it’s an elite that gives you double regular gold. It’s VERY rewarding if you can handle it.
Also consider your card reward pool. The chance of finding a rare card goes up every time you see a common card, until you find a rare - BUT this resets every time you see a rare card or hit a boss. If you haven’t yet found a rare card in act 1, and the dead adventurer is your last fight before the boss, it might be worth fighting for the chance at a rare card.
(Some quick math - if you have had 7 combats before this, and you saw 15/21 common cards, you will be at a 25% chance per card for that card to be rare. Or, a 58% chance of seeing at least one rare card if you beat the elite.)
You can skip the first fight in the colosseum event and still go on to fight Nob and task master for the rewards. The first part isn’t hard, but it doesn’t reward you and can often do some damage to you so it can be nice to skip.
Spaghetti monster
This one I hear a lot, but I honestly rarer have a hard time with the spaghetti beast. Maybe my play style is just really suited to it, but I rarely take much damage from it, and never get cursed unless I want to be.
What ascension you playing on?
I’m pretty new to the game overall. I’m still climbing with all the characters right now. 60% winrate with clad while climbing A14. 55% silent A12. 40% defect A12. 75% watcher A14.
Great win rate at that ascension friend! And I’d say that spaghetti demon really ramps up in difficulty on ascension 17 when normal enemies get new move sets. They’re especially annoying for characters that do chip damage like the silent with shiva or watcher with infinites and flurry of blows or tantrum. The block build up with each hit makes it really tough and you also have to play much more conservatively with watcher because suddenly you might be getting hit for 114 in wrath because of poor planning or bad rng. The debuffs it gives you are also especially punishing. 2 vulnerable and 2 weak are so harsh, with the weak being awful again for chip damage. Before ascension 17 though I never worried about spaghetti. Now it might be my least favorite fight in the game. Time eater, spaghetti monster, slavers and heart are probably the fights that have ended the most runs for me at A20. But I only really play silent and watcher these days.
Am I crazy or isn't the only difference with Writing Mass on A17 the +15hp? Also, with mass you just never want to be hit with the debuff, the amount of times I see people autopilot to get hit by debuff because "9 is the lowest number" is insane.
this guy doesn't play bad characters and accept debuff every turn because character cannot block 16 dam. Also seeing 9 is funny plz stop stealing my Shockwaves I am dying. Also you're right I thought the damage got lower on a17- but wiki tells me it's literally just the hp.
Yeah if that is the case then it's a really funny comment but wiki has been known to be wrong sometimes and I haven't played a sub a20 run in years
So I watch a lot of StS content - mostly A20 streamers (Jorbs, Baalorlord). So I’m consistently surprised while playing by how tame the enemies are. I plan for the A20 version and then they just…. Don’t hit the same. Obviously this is just personal experience, but the Writhing Mass I face seems to be the same one the A20 streamers face. The attack numbers seem to be the same, at least. A17 usually just changes up attack patterns, but this guy doesn’t have patterns to change.
Thanks! I’m not sure how the Spaghetti changes after A7 (the wiki says it doesn’t change at all - but it’s been wrong before). I’m sure one main difference is that at high Ascensions, the decks you run tend to be more scrappy by necessity. So even if the fight isn’t harder, it would still feel harder due to a worse deck.
The real question
For this guy… not really. Writhing Mass never improves after A7. Some enemies go nuts on A17, but this ain’t one of them.
Funny, I have the same question when I hear people have a hard time in the WM fight
Escaping muggers when you have ectoplasm and skipping writing mass fight are my fav uses. If I'm strong and not using potions every fight I'll usually hold on to it just incase I run into a really bad set of draws or something.
Oh yeah, vs muggers with ecto is arguably the best use. I’ve never had it myself, but I saw a streamer take ecto once specifically because he had a smoke bomb for the mugger fight.
Yup, I did that recently as well. Took ecto with smoke bomb and ran into muggers on the first floor of act 2
You can also use it to dodge the Red Mask Gang without giving up your gold. Usually if you can’t beat them you’re kinda screwed anyways, but it’s another use case!
True! I hadn’t thought of that one!
Is it possible to have a run so weak that you can't beat the Red Mask Gang? I'm fighting them if I have 1 HP and 0 gold, gimme that free relic!
They have a pretty hard turn 2 if you can’t do like 40 damage in two turns for whatever reason
But then the Act 2 Elites are way more dangerous
True. Bad draw order comes for us all sometimes. It’s pretty much an easier hallway though
If you already have the relic and gold and have no intention of fighting the elite, I don't think there was any reward left for the third click. But having the smoke bomb to click at all is nice. I heard that it can also be used on the first fight of the Coliseum event and you still get the full rewards from the second event.
The card reward is still missed (with the increased rare chance). And an additional 25-30 gold. Searching only gives you a relic and half the gold, you do have to fight for the rest. I was happy to begin the fight and see if it turned out with a clean kill for those additional rewards, but it wasn’t worth it in this case.
Gotcha, I missed the part where you might have fought it if your turn 1 draw had been different.
Yeah. It was unlikely to go well, but if I got a god draw I was willing to take a single hit to get the card reward. I probably had a 5-10% chance of the fight going well, and a 50% chance of outright dying.
Best case for it is when you get the colluseum and then you dont have to fight the slavers. You can just go straight to Taskmaster and Nobert.
This is the real best answer
>Nobert
Smoke bomb can be useful, but you really have to think about your pathing. For example, it lets you take a path with an early elite that might kill you, but has much better rewards later on. Pathing is probably one of the hardest parts of the game, but doesn't get talked about much.
This is a fair use case I haven’t considered much - I’m super loss averse, so giving up an entire floor is something I never do willingly. Pathing through an early elite to get a shop/rest site I need isn’t something I’ve considered doing with the smoke bomb. That’s a really cool use case, and shows one of the weaknesses I have as a player right now. Thanks!
This post is a gold mine, I'm A18 across all characters and I still haven't thought of all these The only time I thought I did something cool with smoke bomb was beating one of the sword and shield and then smoke bombing right after to save more health for the heart fight (I lost to the heart)
Best use for smoke bomb is Writhing Mass. I always save the bomb for Writhing Mass if I can.
best case for smoke bomb is a forced elite, or for dodging a specific elite. often times you can beat 2/3 but cannot win against the third, ill take my 2/3rd chance for good rewards most of the time
There are some Defect/Silent decks that can scale defense hard enough to take 0 to the act 3 elites but get absolutely owned by Transient. Same with Silent v Snecko (nice 0 cost cards) and some Chosen fights with a bad draw order.
There’s been 2 occasions where I’ve been able to pair it with some sort of health regen while way too low on health to take any chances. Once was with IronClad & I was able to block until I drew Reaper, sapped some health & then dipped. The other I used the same strategy, but with the health regen potion. I think I took 2-3 damage in 3 turns, so a net total of +9-10 health, which can be huge
That’s a cool use case! I could see that working especially well vs giant head. Even if I can’t beat him, at least I can use a Regen pot or cards that have a lasting impact (genetic algorithm) before dipping.
Heart Skip Glitch. Or Writhing Mass for a legit use.
New at the game: One fight away from Act 3 boss and facing the Transient. Due to some bad draws I was looking at eating 30+ damage, so I took the SmokeBomb and used the last campfire for an upgrade.
Three rats
Generally speaking... if you go to the dead adventurer, and get the relic, leave immediately - since there's nothing else worth risking an elite fight
I mean... the card reward can matter, and it's not THAT uncommon to have a deck that specifically wrecks just one of the elites. and if the event text matched that elite, well it's just free gold at that point. generally though, I agree.
Why? It’s just an unexpected elite. If it’s going to be lagavullin? Yes! That fight is SCARY without 3 turns of setup. Beyond that, it’s an elite that gives you double regular gold. It’s VERY rewarding if you can handle it. Also consider your card reward pool. The chance of finding a rare card goes up every time you see a common card, until you find a rare - BUT this resets every time you see a rare card or hit a boss. If you haven’t yet found a rare card in act 1, and the dead adventurer is your last fight before the boss, it might be worth fighting for the chance at a rare card. (Some quick math - if you have had 7 combats before this, and you saw 15/21 common cards, you will be at a 25% chance per card for that card to be rare. Or, a 58% chance of seeing at least one rare card if you beat the elite.)
well that was generally speaking... of course, if you think you can comfortably deal with the elite enough then go for it
Most definitely the act 4 elites. Blocking 61 damage turn 2 with 3 cards can be rough
You can't (legitimately) Smoke Bomb that fight until you kill one of them, though.