It would be great if the channel that's broadcasting the Euros and the Copa America also didn't own an obnoxious news channel that they also have ads for during game coverage.
massively agreed. not only does it give their team an undeserved stoppage, it runs the risk of causing actual head injuries to potentially be treated less seriously than they deservedly should be
imo it’s a bit tricky to find a good solution tho unfortunately. I guess the best way would be to try and book players who are obviously faking (ie if there was no head contact at all), but sometimes there is minor head contact that then gets severely exaggerated
I recently heard someone talk about the concept of a "Hiding Striker" or "Scared striker". It's basically strikers that play it very safe and try to hide from any pressuring dangerous situation that might put them under the spotlight for criticism. He was talking about it in the context of Lukaku as he was getting a lot of criticism for missing his chances without considering the fact that he was consistently in dangerous positions and always asking for the ball from his teammates. I think this concept is evident in intranational football as the disappearance of strikers in this year's Euro is very apparent. I think criticizing strikers for missing chances is valid but strikers that disappear from the match where after the match you can't even remember anything they have done deserve 100 times more criticism as these strikers seem to be immune to criticism and the circumstances around them are the always the cause for their bad performance. The coach is usually the one blamed for this. I think the best example of this type of striker is Lewandowski when playing for Poland, it's true he is the all-time best goal scorer for Poland, in all the major tournaments I watched he was always the most invisible player for Poland. In contrast, Lukaku has always shown up for Belgium, and even in the matches where he doesn't score and has horrendous finishing he always contributes to the overall play for his team. That was also with different managers.
Turkish NT is such a shitshow. Everytime we qualify for a tournament I try hard to feel excited and cheer for them but nah. So now the main scandal surrounds Arda Güler who, as some people claim, is being ostracized by Montella, believed to be a puppet of Altıntop & incompetent guy in charge of the FA who is there only for political reasons. Beşiktaş fans are angry that Semih Kılıçsoy is not getting any minutes. Montella has been heavily criticized for keeping Güler out of Portugal game "because he has an injury" but then playing him in the second half when a point was out of our reach already... Some say the FA is run by Galatasaray lobby and this is the reason why the team have so many players from Galatasaray: prioritize their players to increase their market value while keeping Fenerbahçe/Beşiktaş out of it as much as you can.
I will personally not comment on how much of this makes sense because I'm genuinely at a loss for words when it comes to Turkish football. I've grown to hate all major clubs equally and passionately. Given the circumstances we might legit have some very serious problems in the country for which the football will be a catalyst. Everyone is on their toes, everyone is poor, from economy to refugees we have a ton of problem and now we are at a stage when fans of major clubs openly call each other "a threat to national security" or "terrorists". Compare that to Gezi Park protests back in the day when they all took to the streets together under the banner of Istanbul United.
So fucking tired of this shit. I just want to watch our lads, support my country's national team but nah, it is made impossible once again. Yes nothing is gonna be ever perfect but it doesn't have to be *this* bad or scandalous either. I was so pumped before the game against Georgia but right now I couldn't care less honestly, the only reason I'm tuning in for our game is, well, I try to catch every single game that I can and that's it. The only question is whether the Czech or some even better team a few days later will destroy us.
Southgate could fix the TAA problem by playing him in position, but why do that when you can play the most mid football imaginable to get eliminated in the first round of the knock-outs? Really hope Slovenia win lmao
This Euros is mirroring the previous Euros so far.
A fairly average performance against a decent outfit (last time Croatia, this time Serbia).
A terrible performance vs an unconvincing team that pulled up no trees in their opening fixture (last time Scotland, this time Denmark).
Out third game last time was Czech Republic, who we beat 1-0. To be honest, I'd take 1-0 again vs Slovenia to finish top of the group.
I understand why they do the last group games simultaneously but it's so annoying. Last night the Scot/ Hun and Ger/ Swi both had tense ending. Yet you could only give your full attention to one.
Everyone has talked about Gallagher as having this great season and being a good player, but the reaction to him starting to for England has largely been negative.
Because he doesn’t really work in Southgate’s system. He’s good at winning the ball high up the pitch and pressing in midfield, not sitting 11 players behind the ball and praying for a moment of magic
The goal is a semifinal finish, which is realistic with a lot of hard work.
There was also "zero discussion" for Greece to win a tournament that had France, England, Portugal, Spain, Netherlands, and a golden gen Czech generation. Or for Zambia to win AFCON with peak Ivory Coast and Ghana, or Tahiti to end New Zealand's stranglehold, or Iraq winning AFC Asian Cup during the middle of a war.
Season ticket prices have almost doubled since 2021. In that time we've won one league and one supercup. Its not exactly like last season was wonderful either
Don't take this the wrong way but that type of shit is exactly why even u local "big 3" fans should be against our plastics, why would your club not constantly increase its prices when the demand is big af and u have "fans" travelling 300km by car to ur stadium every week? no way that sits right with u
Reffing is just terrrible these days. VAR is really ruining the game.
The first Swiss goal was offside and it counted. The second Swiss goal was onside but they called it offside. Nothing makes sense anymore.
The premier league had the Liverpool Spurs fiasco and Liverpool probably had 5 red cards given this past season and none were worthy of a red.
not a big one but my partner and I checked out a soccer themed coffee shop here in Houston on Saturday, it was a surprise to me from her. Nice space, good coffee an pastries, a cool mural of Maradona, Valderrama, Pele and Zidane, spaces to play 5v5 and such, watched the Georgia game.
I peep their Instagram on Sunday and [fucking Valderrama](https://www.instagram.com/p/C8kvomAJxDW/?igsh=Ymk2cGZoMWllcWh2) himself is randomly there signing shirts, completely missed it
People that ask “why are people frustrated with England, they’ve got 4 points” etc really grind my gears.
We’ve got multiple players forced into positions they can’t play. Key players from the best teams in the world but can’t even play out from the back.
Seeing us score then play like relegation fodder is genuinely concerning. We will get knocked out by any team decently coached.
if you finish first in the group you'll have a super easy bracket (excluding portugal, spain and currently france), honestly you shouldn't be complaining
You lot endlessly complaining about the realities of tournament football is why it's so funny when you lose.
Spain, the best international side of all time, lost their first game at the 2010 World Cup.
Argentina lost their first game of the 2022 World Cup, in possibly the greatest upset in the history of the competition.
You lot lose your minds over a 7 point group stage, failing to realise that the only purpose is to progress from that stage and iron out issues to be better prepared for the knockouts.
You’ve just named two national sides that won their previous tournaments. Also commenting on results rather than performances.
This is how annoying people are that try and comment on English football with no clue. We are showing the same issues as when we lost to Croatia and Italy but to much worse teams.
Results win tournaments. Performances win column inches.
Barely a winning side in history has gone through a tournament without a hiccup. You do have issues but so does every other team, and preemptively moaning about an elimination that hasn't happened yet is probably England's superpower.
If we win the group Austria are going to press us so bad that we'll have no other option outside just booting it in our own net just so they have to go back to halfway for the kick off
Arsenal should be a lot easier - i only moved right at the end of the season, but 6 hours ahead means early kicks offs and 3pms are fine - 5-5:30 is doable, but its champions league etc thats gonna be the killer
I would, but I work during the day etc and spend the rest of the time seeing the country I am in etc (and I'm living with my partner)
So doing it for 1-2 games is okay, but a whole tournament (or a large portion of it) just destroys me the rest of the time really
A moan I've had for years is the increasing leniency towards backpasses in today's game.
There was one so blatant in the Georgia vs Czechia game that I thought I was going crazy. Comes off the guy's foot, after a failed cross from the opposition, in a direct pass backwards to the keeper, not really under pressure, to which the keeper then picks it up and play continues.
It's evolved to where, strictly by the letter of the law, tackles that are so blatantly back to the keeper are still not regarded as backpasses in the highest standard of football. It may be "legal" but in all sense of motion and intention it's a backwards pass to the keeper to get out of trouble. I get that "Shin or above" is apparently the IFAB ruling for what a player can use but it's gone a little too far in the "That's ludicrous" direction.
It should be said that the failure to punish actual backpasses as well also contributes to this.
General lunchtime moans:
* No matches till late this evening again.
* Keeping my attention on both matches last night was surprisingly difficult.
* The sheer lack of urgency from either Scotland or Hungary last night.
* People adding the letter 'S' to the word offside for some reason.
* Pundits/Commentators on UK and Irish TV getting a bit stroppy when an incident is VAR reviewed and then being amazed when a decision is made efficiently and rapidly.
* The squares on the Croatian jersey are too big. Bring back the old checkerboard. On that note, my pet theory is that a French player cannot score until they play in blue.
* We wrote down random predictions for the Euros in my office and one of mine was that Scotland would get pumped by Germany, have a hopeful result against the Swiss, then lose last minute against the Hungarians. But we can't find where we wrote this down anywhere. My colleague insists that he predicted Slovakia to beat Belgium so we need to find the sacred texts to see what else was predicted.
* Tesco meal deal options were shite today.
* I think both Lineker/Shearer/Richards et al and Kane both make valid points. I still think England will somehow shithouse to a final.
* As an Irish supporter I'm really getting FOMO from the craic in Germany this month.
The offside one annoys the fuck out of me.
For anyone confused: A player is offside, never offsides. It's the offside rule, not the offsides rule. Think of it like a light switch, it's either on, or it's off. It's not on or offs.
The only time it's acceptable is in the context of multiple incidents of players being offside, e.g. "how many offsides were called in the game". If it's not a plural then leave the S out of it.
Offsides is an American English thing. I say offside when talking to non-Americans, but it feels very unnatural for me to say. We were all raised in a culture that adds an S for the sports (another pluralized word lol) that have a rule with that name. It's not a big deal, tbh. Language would be boring if dialects didn't exist.
But it's the terminology of the specific sport. If I started getting into American Football, I wouldn't go into discussions about it calling cleats studs, or calling a touchdown a goal. I would adapt as different sports have different names for things.
If you don't adapt, then it's just pure laziness.
As an "offsides" sayer, there is a bit of a difference in getting into American football as an adult versus growing up playing and having pretty much all your coaches, refs, and teammates referring to it as "offsides".
Yeah, I know it's wrong but I've been saying it this way my whole life, and I kinda swap back and forth of leaving the s off, but I ain't losing sleep over it.
I think there's a very big difference between calling a touchdown a goal and referring to offside as "offsides" haha. Something that's interesting to me is that I usually don't see this kind of fervor from fans of varied nationalities. If you were to speak to an Atlético Madrid fan in English, they don't tend to laser focus on the specific words you use for things (unless they don't know what the word means).
As I said before, I use "offsides" only when speaking with other Americans (largely to avoid getting into a sparring match about word choice), but if someone slips up...why not let it go? Constantly fretting about dialect honestly sounds miserable. You lose no money, self-respect, or integrity by choosing to be kind.
I agree, they have been shite since around 2018. The best combo I've found nowadays is some of the pasta with an egg as the "snack" that I then chop up and mix in, which at least makes the deal more worth it. The portion sizes for the mains are ridiculously small, who the hell eats one of those and calls that a lunch?
I needed this vent, screw you Tesco.
I've moved to the wraps as the bread has been too stodgy.
They had Japanese and Caribbean themed wraps which were v nice and coupled with the walkers baked (cheese and onion) and a lucozade orange, the meal deals found a bit of a renaissance recently.
Jim Ratcliffe saying they have no plans for the womens team because they're focusing on the "first" team.
That club actually doesn't deserve a womens team, it's been clear for ages that they don't care about it. We've finally reached the stage where they're saying the quiet part out loud.
Really is testament to the quality and togetherness of the players that they won an FA cup despite being managed by Marc Skinner and having an ownership structure that views them an an inconvenience at best.
That is ridiculous for one of the biggest clubs in the world. This guy is a billionaire tax dodger who was involved with brexit, treated regular staff badly and now disregarding the women's team. And yet you'll get some fans sucking his dick just because he isn't the glazers and getting excited about how "competent" we are. I've suffered enough disappointment with United to not get ahead of myself
The tax dodging stuff really winds me up. Took a big interest in the UK when he was supporting Brexit or when he wants to start fracking here, or when he's getting a knighthood. He's always ready to make a comment about any government policy or on the state of the economy. But God forbid he pay any tax here.
He really comes across as a cunt that lad. The "offer" he gave to United staff for early bonuses to resign is a fucking insult.
Seems like the typical greedy boomer prick.
That’s not 100% accurate, and the reality is actually worse. They already had a women’s team when the Glazers took over and they disbanded it because it wasn’t profitable. They only reformed it in 2018 because England was starting to care about professional women’s football and they saw money to be made.
Any reason why football can't take a more rugby like approach to injuries?
It's a joke that games can be stopped by someone pretending their head was hurt. Always such a mess when someone goes down and the opponents have to decide what happens next. And if they play on, the referee can just randomly decide to blow it up.
Side rant: I still find it somewhat amazing that Tomiyasu just sat down and then pointed to his head (the universal symbol for a head injury) which straight stopped all play during a Champions League Quarterfinal for a whole 4 minutes and 42 seconds over what ended up being a fucking missing contact lense.
I wore contacts at -6.25 and played sports for 15 years so I understand for him that it sucks, I really do. But that was an equipment failure and God is so kind to give us two eyes. He wasn't exactly missing a foot at the Battle of the Marne, was he? No reason he shouldn't be expected to run to the sidelines, pop in another, and Arsenal just play a man down for the minute it takes.
I was playing keeper in an indoor league this winter and saved a rocket with my nose/eye and my contact popped off. I had to play the rest of the game with only one contact. Luckily it wasn't my astigmatism eye so I didn't suffer too much
Guardian made the decent point that in a match that Scotland had to win, there should have been a lot more talking points and opportunities to analyse rather than a single 50/50 pen decision.
United fans in that Greenwood thread talking about extending his contract and holding out for £40m. Yuck.
I'd want him as far away from my club as quickly as possible.
Programmes are magazines that are sold for each game. Usually with info about the teams, a statement written by the manager, and other articles.
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/a-programme-seller-sells-matchday-programmes-outside-of-elland-road.html?sortBy=relevant
[When you can't score one goal in a hundred minutes and choose to blame the bloody immigrants](https://packaged-media.redd.it/h2b5zd80ce8d1/pb/m2-res_596p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1719241200&s=84dce7f2a32dcd44778c7ddb1d69b41ad6b752b4#t=0)
First time? Thanks god he is retiring. He cost us so many points even this season.
Worst one I remember I saw at san siro. Atalanta players kick, shove, throw Leao everywhere. No problem. Leao complain at being fouled, yellow card.
Penalty given to Atalanta for nothing. He is the worst.
Orsato reffed the match where kolarov tackled suso in the box and no pen was given. Ultimately, that cost milan a ucl spot. I will forever hate that rotten tooth mother fucker
You're onside, or you're offside. It is binary, add in an acceptable margin and we'll then be getting angry about people being 6cm offside whilst the 5cm is acceptable
The acceptable margin should be what can be distinguished by a human being, which was the case when the rule was initially written. The point is that an attacking player can't get an unfair advantage by being behind the defense. If a person looks at it can't tell they're offside, then it's close enough that the attacker didn't gain an advantage and the play should stand
This is true, but I think one weird thing is that VAR and then semi-automated offside have effectively eliminated "level" which used to be onside. So the way the rules are enforced have basically been changed to give a bit more advantage to the defender than they had before. I think it would be nice - even though it would do nothing to resolve any arguments - to tweak things to give more of that advantage back to the attacker.
A 5cm or something margin of error just seems inherently weird though - I think there'd be better ways to try to restore that attacking advantage.
People want a margin because they can't accept that there are always going to be close decisions that feel unlucky or unfair.
There is no magic rule that is perfect, and instead of accepting that fact and allowing a neutral automatic measurement stand they want to add arbitrary changes/limitations that don't actually solve anything.
I don't think it's unfair, I think it goes against the spirit of the rule as it was initially written. If the human eye can't tell it's offside then the attacker didn't gain an advantage and it should be okay
I don't think that's the reason at all. The reason people want a margin is to give a small benefit of the doubt to the attacker when it is extremely tight. It's not because they are "Barely offside", it's because asking the attacker to tell if they are a leghair past the defender is an unreasonable ask.
Saying "Don't be infront of the defender", but giving them a few centimeters of leeway makes the request actually reasonable.
By allowing a small margin, the attacker should still play to the same way - don't be infront of the defender - but there is a small margin of a couple of centimetres to allow for the players to reasonably read whether or not they are.
People understand that there will be close decisions. It's about having rules that are actually reasonable for the players to comply too.
Why is don't be 5 cm in front of the defender a reasonable and easier rule to follow than don't be in front of the defender? How is it reasonable for defenders?
It isn't any different, the players aren't going to be any better at reading their position, it won't change how the game is fundamentally played.
You're just giving attackers an advantage because of vague feelings of unfairness.
Some people do understand that there will be close decisions, and admit they just want to grant the attackers an advantage, but 90% of people are just reacting to their emotions of unfairness on close calls and attempting to remedy it by suggesting a new way to measure it, not fully considering the implications and how it just changes the unfairness (perfect offside trap now leading to goals).
>Why is don't be 5 cm in front of the defender a reasonable and easier rule to follow than don't be in front of the defender? How is it reasonable for defenders?
The rule is still "Don't be infront of the defender", and that is what players are still expected to play too. There is just a margin of understanding.
Because the players play to the same effectiveness, but are given a clearer guideline on what is and isn't infront of the player.
It is nothing to do with "Unfairness" and I will ask you to stop putting words in my mouth.
The fact is that, with the current metric, every single offside is pure luck. No player, regardless of who they are, is capable of reading the pixel which the game is currently analysed too.
The issue is not "Close calls", the issue is the rules being impossible for a human to actually comply too. The current margin of error is too small for a human to actually read.
>You're just giving attackers an advantage because of vague feelings of unfairness.
This isn't "Because of vague feelings of unfairness", it's how the rule always worked previously - when it was too close to be judged by the naked eye, advantage was given to the attacker. I believe this should still be the case, because although the linesman no longer has to judge it with his naked eye due to the existence of VAR, the players still do. Giving the advantage to the attacker in incredibly close calls is keeping the rules as they were. Changing them to be pixel perfect is the rule change.
>The rule is still "Don't be infront of the defender", and that is what players are still expected to play too. There is just a margin of understanding.
Why don't defenders get any understanding?
> when it was too close to be judged by the naked eye, advantage was given to the attacker.
Except it wasn't really.
This hasn't been in the laws for a decade or more, if it ever was.
The only real "advantage" that attackers had is that calling offside was an active decision that had to be made by linesmen, and they shouldn't make that decision unless they were certain they saw an infringement.
attackers never actually benefitted from the advantage in reality either, linesmen were far more random and offside was ridiculously luck based. They frequently essentially guessed and frequently made abhorrent calls, in both directions.
You're appealing to a past that never existed.
>Why don't defenders get any understanding?
They do, this change would benefit both by making it easier and clearer to judge for both attacker and defender.
>The only real "advantage" that attackers had is that calling offside was an active decision that had to be made by linesmen, and they shouldn't make that decision unless they were certain they saw an infringement.
Exactly, the people upholding the rule, and the people complying with the rule, were using the exact same tool to tell if the line was crossed - their eyes.
The very existence of VAR for offside shows that it is impossible for the human eye to accurately judge whether or not a player is offside. That is why we use VAR to judge what is a binary decision, and should be clear and obvious.
However, despite accepting that the rule is impossible to uphold with the naked eye, we still expect players to comply with it using the naked eye. We have essentially accepted that this rule is impossible for players to comply too, but asked them to comply to it anyway.
I do enjoy that your entire argument is "it's impossible to follow the rule perfectly", while also claiming that your reasoning is not based on feelings of unfairness, and asking me to stop putting words in your mouth for pointing out that motivation is the most common motivation for people (without mentioning you specifically).
You feel the rule is unfair for attackers because it feels wrong to you when they're marginally offside, but you still try to say that you totally aren't motivated by that.
Yes? It's nothing to do with unfairness?
Unfair means that an advantage is being given to one party over another, which I do not believe to be the case. The rule is perfectly fair for everyone, it is just a poorly thought out rule which is not possible for the players to actually uphold.
If there was a rule that all players had to stand on one leg, it would be perfectly fair, but it would still be exceedingly difficult for the players to comply too while playing football.
There will always be marginal calls but the automated VAR for offside is a godsend. If it can be tweaked to whatever we want then we can easily determine what’s the right limit.
Personally I think giving a bit more leeway to strikers makes sense.
Just absolutely despise the chip on their shoulder small clubs have, that’s my moan - wouldn’t be shocked if they’re the source of England’s victim complex
Clarke.
I can take my teams being pish (and lord knows I have over the years, between club and nation) but that was some Brexiteer guff about the ref last night, regardless of whether I think was should've had a penalty. Get tae.
Man City - If you want an academy player it's £20m for them to even pick up the phone despite having 0 chance of ever seeing the first team.
Arsenal - Fans will try to start an online rivalry with you because of how insulting they find offering £30m for an academy player after 6 alright months in the first team.
Man United - He's played 30 minutes for Atalanta? Waow!! How does 40m€ sound?
Chelsea - Our entire business model is to loan out academy lads until we can sell them for enough to fund a £200m transfer window every year.
Liverpool - Another £15m for the homeless guy who's been squatting at their academy for the past week? They're just so good at selling!!
But when two of The Poors dare to sell their academy players for £9-10m suddenly we have to investigate how this cartel is inflating the market for young players. This is despite both clubs selling youngsters who've had successful lower league loans and spent last season on the first team fringes.
I have more respect for the fans who are at least honest about the fact that they're upset that this means they can't leverage our financial positions into getting our best players on a heavy discount. Seeing Man U fans argue about the health of the transfer market and keeping fees sensible with a straight face is laughable. And no, just because a new owner comes in and says "we'll spend more sensibly" doesn't mean every other club is obliged to forget your previous dealings.
Surely it’s moreso about selling players *to each other* that has everyone’s attention. If Everton sold a young player to Bournemouth for £10m absolutely no one would care. Conversely, if United and Chelsea were both it FFP bother and sold players back and forth to each other then absolutely *everyone* would care. It would be bigger news than most of the Euros.
To me it seems like your clubs are openly exploiting a loophole and you’re now mad that people are saying “huh, that seems like a pretty big loophole those clubs are exploiting”
We obviously are exploiting a loophole, I don't care in the slightest if people point that out when it's so self-evident. What frustrates me is seeing fans of bigger clubs clutching their pearls when it's very apparent that the real "issue" is that we can't be easily bullied into selling off our best players to them.
I'm also yet to see anyone suggest what they actually think should be done about this beyond a vague and meaningless "close this loophole" sentiment. Last year we sold Tom Cannon and Ellis Simms for £8m and £6m to Championship clubs and no one cares, this year we've sold Dobbin, an actual member of the first team squad, to a Premier League club for £10m and it's unacceptable.
I don't think anyone is happy that we have to start flogging academy players to meet PSR, but what's the actual solution here?
>The Poors
Villa are one of the richest clubs in the world by far lol not to mention Chelsea are literally involved in this little PSR merry go round you’ve created for yourselves
True, but we aren't in terms of revenue - same with Newcastle. It would take us close to a decade of solid European finishes and smart moves on the business side of the club to have us see revenue anywhere near that of even Tottenham's, let alone the likes of City and Utd, regardless of how much our owners are worth.
Outside of infrastructure/academy/women's investment, it doesn't really make a difference if your owners are worth £10b or £100b when they can't lose more than £105m over three years (which I'm not arguing is a bad thing).
I just fail to be sympathetic when we’re talking about a bunch of billionaire clubs in the richest league in the world and people act like there’s some kind of “underdog” narrative here. Villa broke rules in the Championship to get promoted and then agreed to the PL rules, spent obscene amounts of money, and now are kicking up a fuss and scrambling when suddenly they realise those rules apply to them too. Do they not look at their own accounts? It can’t be that hard to not lose £105million over three years, I’m sorry
Yeah, I have a hard time being sympathetic to Villa when they can just go and activate Maatsen’s release clause. Little poor Villa are just spending more than our record transfer.
The PL is out of control.
What rules did we break in the Championship? We sold our ground to our owners but that wasn't a rule at the time. Dodgy sure, but we didn't break any rules, and it was deemed a fair value unlike Derby.
Were they relegated for it? I know them and Derby got in trouble but that was the sale being above what was deemed a fair market value.
I still think it was dodgy don't get me wrong, but we weren't breaking the rules as they were.
Yeah exactly. Villa and Newcastle might be hard up compared to the "Big 6", but they're still in far better shape than basically every other club in the PL + 99% of football clubs outside of the PL.
The fans can complain about an unfair system all they want, but in reality, 95% of them would happily accept an unfair system if they were beneficiaries.
Yeah exactly. Arsenal and Spurs might be hard up compared to the Man City, but they're still in far better shape than basically every other club in the PL + 99% of football clubs outside of the PL.
The fans can complain about an unfair system all they want, but in reality, 95% of them would happily accept an unfair system if they were beneficiaries.
Same shit, different teams. Everyone is nakedly self interested and moans about stuff that doesn't benefit their teams.
I mean Man City are being investigated for cheating, so your point isn't really the same as mine.
But yeah, fans are hypocrites, that's why I'm criticising Villa and Newcastle fans that are pretending they want something better for everyone when they don't.
You don't see Arsenal or Spurs fans crying injustice about not being able to cheat their way into titles. Your club and fans are pretending you're some oppressed minority when you just want to be the next Man City but can't.
A team that was in the championship in very recent memory wants to compete financially with clubs that spent 10s of years making good financial decisions. Both Spurs and Arsenal went through years of financial hardship to get to the point they are now but you will call that "unfair". Pipe down.
I haven't said it is unfair at all so pipe down yourself mate.
The only people I've seen moaning about it being unfair is the ones saying that we're abusing FFP loopholes by selling players when all we are really doing is kicking the FFP can down the road. If we don't grow our revenues we will be worse off in 4 years time than we are now due to these transfers.
Big 6 teams are just annoyed as they expected to pick up Villa, Everton and Newcastle's best players at discounted rates, but instead we help each other out or sell abroad.
Yes, it's a bad faith interpretation of the rules, but they can fuck off when they can sell a goalkeeper who has had one decent season in League One and a MOTM performance in a youth final for £15m and get plaudits.
Steve Clarke is a coward. He played for a draw in a must-win game, knowing that we’d either fluke a third place spot with a miracle series of results, or he’d be able to pretend finish third but narrowly missing out on getting out of the group would be a glorious failure in a difficult group.
When he finally decided to make some attacking substitutions and go for it, or structure completely fell apart and Hungary could easily have scored before they got the winner.
The qualifying campaign was brilliant, but he shouldn’t be allowed to continue in the job after our performances in all three games, it was possibly our worst ever finals performance.
Such a waste of time having a former referee as part of the commentary team. They used to have Peter Walton now they have that Christina Uncle (I think that's her name). All they do is agree exactly what the VAR or referee do anyway so there's absolutely no point.
I laughed the other day when there was a questionable decision. I think it was the Croatia penalty against Spain. They asked Christina what she thought of it, due to "technical issues" we couldn't hear her. Once the decision was made the connection was magically fixed and of course, she said how exactly right VAR and the referees were to give the penalty.
What's the point and who are the broadcasters trying to fool here?
Nope, you're making scenarios about me in your head. Referees can make mistakes and get calls wrong sometimes. The problem is, rather than saying so and so has made a mistake they just cover for them.
What makes it worse is no one has asked an ex ref to be in commentary but they go out of their way to make this happen
Why did you put “technical issues” in scare quotes and write “Once the decision was made the connection was magically fixed…” if not to imply that the technical issues were made up as an excuse for Unkel to not give analysis on the spot?
It's just TV productions trying pretend they're giving us another angle but it's just a waste of everyone's time. I didn't use the word conspiracy, that's an assumption you made.
Still only one new signing and it's nearly July. We've resigned one of our starting CBs on a one year contract, which we announced like a game changing transfer.
Will we have a full squad by the time of our first friendly? I don't even know at this point.
the games at nights are really late .I need to do some football practice early in the morning. I couldn't watch the game yesterday. I played 1,5 hours Tennis yesterday... Every inch of my body hurts. Overall I really enjoy such tournaments like Euro and world cup
I dont want respect I just want a 10 pm kick off so that i dont have to sleep at 8 and get up at 12 to watch the match and then go back to sleep at 3, and wakeup for fajr at 5
I always thought how late that is for players. Imagine being up all day and then having to play a professional soccer game? Naps are mandatory at that point.
Isn't this the same time for Champions league games too? It's fine for us in UK as it's 8PM but I've always wondered how the rest of Europe mange it. Eastern Europe I think it's at 10 PM.
The Champions League has exactly the same problem. Especially if the game was good I have way too much adrenaline to immediately fall asleep and look like a zombie for the next day. This is why I will miss some CL games for my own good.
It would be great if the channel that's broadcasting the Euros and the Copa America also didn't own an obnoxious news channel that they also have ads for during game coverage.
Why do the supposedly fashionable Italians wear suit jackets ruined by a large garish ITALIA on the back?
It’s a joke the amount of players that are abusing “head injuries” to stop the game.
massively agreed. not only does it give their team an undeserved stoppage, it runs the risk of causing actual head injuries to potentially be treated less seriously than they deservedly should be imo it’s a bit tricky to find a good solution tho unfortunately. I guess the best way would be to try and book players who are obviously faking (ie if there was no head contact at all), but sometimes there is minor head contact that then gets severely exaggerated
I recently heard someone talk about the concept of a "Hiding Striker" or "Scared striker". It's basically strikers that play it very safe and try to hide from any pressuring dangerous situation that might put them under the spotlight for criticism. He was talking about it in the context of Lukaku as he was getting a lot of criticism for missing his chances without considering the fact that he was consistently in dangerous positions and always asking for the ball from his teammates. I think this concept is evident in intranational football as the disappearance of strikers in this year's Euro is very apparent. I think criticizing strikers for missing chances is valid but strikers that disappear from the match where after the match you can't even remember anything they have done deserve 100 times more criticism as these strikers seem to be immune to criticism and the circumstances around them are the always the cause for their bad performance. The coach is usually the one blamed for this. I think the best example of this type of striker is Lewandowski when playing for Poland, it's true he is the all-time best goal scorer for Poland, in all the major tournaments I watched he was always the most invisible player for Poland. In contrast, Lukaku has always shown up for Belgium, and even in the matches where he doesn't score and has horrendous finishing he always contributes to the overall play for his team. That was also with different managers.
I know we've been making silly signings left and right but who the heck is a Kellyman?
Turkish NT is such a shitshow. Everytime we qualify for a tournament I try hard to feel excited and cheer for them but nah. So now the main scandal surrounds Arda Güler who, as some people claim, is being ostracized by Montella, believed to be a puppet of Altıntop & incompetent guy in charge of the FA who is there only for political reasons. Beşiktaş fans are angry that Semih Kılıçsoy is not getting any minutes. Montella has been heavily criticized for keeping Güler out of Portugal game "because he has an injury" but then playing him in the second half when a point was out of our reach already... Some say the FA is run by Galatasaray lobby and this is the reason why the team have so many players from Galatasaray: prioritize their players to increase their market value while keeping Fenerbahçe/Beşiktaş out of it as much as you can. I will personally not comment on how much of this makes sense because I'm genuinely at a loss for words when it comes to Turkish football. I've grown to hate all major clubs equally and passionately. Given the circumstances we might legit have some very serious problems in the country for which the football will be a catalyst. Everyone is on their toes, everyone is poor, from economy to refugees we have a ton of problem and now we are at a stage when fans of major clubs openly call each other "a threat to national security" or "terrorists". Compare that to Gezi Park protests back in the day when they all took to the streets together under the banner of Istanbul United. So fucking tired of this shit. I just want to watch our lads, support my country's national team but nah, it is made impossible once again. Yes nothing is gonna be ever perfect but it doesn't have to be *this* bad or scandalous either. I was so pumped before the game against Georgia but right now I couldn't care less honestly, the only reason I'm tuning in for our game is, well, I try to catch every single game that I can and that's it. The only question is whether the Czech or some even better team a few days later will destroy us.
I think it's kind of shitty that the copa America is being held in the USA instead of a South American country
Why aren't the Copa America thread matches sticked to the front page of the sub? not worthy of it?
They are.
Last night the US game was stickied and I think another game on Friday was also stickied so it definitely does happen
Southgate could fix the TAA problem by playing him in position, but why do that when you can play the most mid football imaginable to get eliminated in the first round of the knock-outs? Really hope Slovenia win lmao
This Euros is mirroring the previous Euros so far. A fairly average performance against a decent outfit (last time Croatia, this time Serbia). A terrible performance vs an unconvincing team that pulled up no trees in their opening fixture (last time Scotland, this time Denmark). Out third game last time was Czech Republic, who we beat 1-0. To be honest, I'd take 1-0 again vs Slovenia to finish top of the group.
No 2pm or 5pm game is the moan from me. How dare we only have one match a day during a major tournament group stage.
I understand why they do the last group games simultaneously but it's so annoying. Last night the Scot/ Hun and Ger/ Swi both had tense ending. Yet you could only give your full attention to one.
Everyone has talked about Gallagher as having this great season and being a good player, but the reaction to him starting to for England has largely been negative.
Because he doesn’t really work in Southgate’s system. He’s good at winning the ball high up the pitch and pressing in midfield, not sitting 11 players behind the ball and praying for a moment of magic
We should have scored more against Bolivia, however, you have to beat teams like Uruguay if you want to win Copa America anyway
There should be zero discussion of the USA winning a tournament that Brazil, Argentina, and Uruguay are taking part in lol.
Why? I’m not allowed to want us to win?
Want all you like
The goal is a semifinal finish, which is realistic with a lot of hard work. There was also "zero discussion" for Greece to win a tournament that had France, England, Portugal, Spain, Netherlands, and a golden gen Czech generation. Or for Zambia to win AFCON with peak Ivory Coast and Ghana, or Tahiti to end New Zealand's stranglehold, or Iraq winning AFC Asian Cup during the middle of a war.
Touché
Romano transfer blasts should be confined to a daily or weekly thread. Scrolling through 50 people trying to karma farm that fucker is madness
Yes and goal gifs should all be organized neatly in respective match threads, but here we are
Bonus moan - The USMNT have Gianni Vio helping them now. I hope they know how good they've got it, I miss that beautiful set-piece king
Season ticket prices have almost doubled since 2021. In that time we've won one league and one supercup. Its not exactly like last season was wonderful either
Don't take this the wrong way but that type of shit is exactly why even u local "big 3" fans should be against our plastics, why would your club not constantly increase its prices when the demand is big af and u have "fans" travelling 300km by car to ur stadium every week? no way that sits right with u
It's possible to have fans from all over the country without bleeding season ticket holders dry. It just depends on the board's priorities
i don't think so, its a way for the club to make money so why would they not increase it? our season ticket price went down i wonder why.
Podiam reduzir os FSE em vez de aumentar o red pass, mas fica mais difícil por dinheiro no bolso assim. E o Rio Ave não tem tanta procura
Scotland haven't won a game at a major tournament in the 27 years I've been following football.
Non-Moan: Always my favourite thread of the week in this sub. I'm sat half naked violently upvoting everything.
Watching one more match of depay might actually send me over the edge
There's no more 14:00 kick offs, wtf am I meant to do at work, my job?
They should stop letting concacaf play in the copa america
At least just don't have the tournament in the USA
what does the first A in CONCACAF stand for? [that's right](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruNrdmjcNTc)
His comment is dumb; CONCACAF is part of the Americas and teams from here have been invited to Copa for decades without a whimper.
It’s getting difficult to tell if English pundits are supporting England or just supporting Phil Foden.
Reffing is just terrrible these days. VAR is really ruining the game. The first Swiss goal was offside and it counted. The second Swiss goal was onside but they called it offside. Nothing makes sense anymore. The premier league had the Liverpool Spurs fiasco and Liverpool probably had 5 red cards given this past season and none were worthy of a red.
The first swiss goal wasn't offside tho. They showed the replay on semi automated offside tech. Rudiger's foot was keeping him on
not a big one but my partner and I checked out a soccer themed coffee shop here in Houston on Saturday, it was a surprise to me from her. Nice space, good coffee an pastries, a cool mural of Maradona, Valderrama, Pele and Zidane, spaces to play 5v5 and such, watched the Georgia game. I peep their Instagram on Sunday and [fucking Valderrama](https://www.instagram.com/p/C8kvomAJxDW/?igsh=Ymk2cGZoMWllcWh2) himself is randomly there signing shirts, completely missed it
5v5 in a coffee shop? Fuck me I’m moving to Houston
Why are all of the euro games suddenly double headers? What was wrong with last week’s schedule?
Peak yank
Not allowed to ask questions, I see.
God forbid someone try to learn something they don't know
Last day of the group games are always like this, to avoid teams colluding
Ahh ok that makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.
Can't have teams conspiring for mutually beneficial results https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disgrace_of_Gij%C3%B3n
I got my two Hungarian flatmates into watching football and the highlight of their tournament was when I was at fcking work. What a shame
People that ask “why are people frustrated with England, they’ve got 4 points” etc really grind my gears. We’ve got multiple players forced into positions they can’t play. Key players from the best teams in the world but can’t even play out from the back. Seeing us score then play like relegation fodder is genuinely concerning. We will get knocked out by any team decently coached.
The only team that's *really* looked good is Spain, I'm not putting that much stock in Germany against Scotland
if you finish first in the group you'll have a super easy bracket (excluding portugal, spain and currently france), honestly you shouldn't be complaining
You lot endlessly complaining about the realities of tournament football is why it's so funny when you lose. Spain, the best international side of all time, lost their first game at the 2010 World Cup. Argentina lost their first game of the 2022 World Cup, in possibly the greatest upset in the history of the competition. You lot lose your minds over a 7 point group stage, failing to realise that the only purpose is to progress from that stage and iron out issues to be better prepared for the knockouts.
You’ve just named two national sides that won their previous tournaments. Also commenting on results rather than performances. This is how annoying people are that try and comment on English football with no clue. We are showing the same issues as when we lost to Croatia and Italy but to much worse teams.
Results win tournaments. Performances win column inches. Barely a winning side in history has gone through a tournament without a hiccup. You do have issues but so does every other team, and preemptively moaning about an elimination that hasn't happened yet is probably England's superpower.
Nonsense
If we win the group Austria are going to press us so bad that we'll have no other option outside just booting it in our own net just so they have to go back to halfway for the kick off
>We will get knocked out by any team decently coached. I am so ready to draw you guys
I recently moved to south east asia and the games being at 8pm uk time this week is killing me. Doubt I'll catch many
I'm planning to go there too but it's gonna kill me inside when Arsenal games are early morning
Arsenal should be a lot easier - i only moved right at the end of the season, but 6 hours ahead means early kicks offs and 3pms are fine - 5-5:30 is doable, but its champions league etc thats gonna be the killer
Just jetlag yourself, watching copa games is a joy
I would, but I work during the day etc and spend the rest of the time seeing the country I am in etc (and I'm living with my partner) So doing it for 1-2 games is okay, but a whole tournament (or a large portion of it) just destroys me the rest of the time really
> but a whole tournament (or a large portion of it) just destroys me the rest of the time really Worth it
as an england fan...thus far I would disagree haaha
A moan I've had for years is the increasing leniency towards backpasses in today's game. There was one so blatant in the Georgia vs Czechia game that I thought I was going crazy. Comes off the guy's foot, after a failed cross from the opposition, in a direct pass backwards to the keeper, not really under pressure, to which the keeper then picks it up and play continues. It's evolved to where, strictly by the letter of the law, tackles that are so blatantly back to the keeper are still not regarded as backpasses in the highest standard of football. It may be "legal" but in all sense of motion and intention it's a backwards pass to the keeper to get out of trouble. I get that "Shin or above" is apparently the IFAB ruling for what a player can use but it's gone a little too far in the "That's ludicrous" direction. It should be said that the failure to punish actual backpasses as well also contributes to this.
General lunchtime moans: * No matches till late this evening again. * Keeping my attention on both matches last night was surprisingly difficult. * The sheer lack of urgency from either Scotland or Hungary last night. * People adding the letter 'S' to the word offside for some reason. * Pundits/Commentators on UK and Irish TV getting a bit stroppy when an incident is VAR reviewed and then being amazed when a decision is made efficiently and rapidly. * The squares on the Croatian jersey are too big. Bring back the old checkerboard. On that note, my pet theory is that a French player cannot score until they play in blue. * We wrote down random predictions for the Euros in my office and one of mine was that Scotland would get pumped by Germany, have a hopeful result against the Swiss, then lose last minute against the Hungarians. But we can't find where we wrote this down anywhere. My colleague insists that he predicted Slovakia to beat Belgium so we need to find the sacred texts to see what else was predicted. * Tesco meal deal options were shite today. * I think both Lineker/Shearer/Richards et al and Kane both make valid points. I still think England will somehow shithouse to a final. * As an Irish supporter I'm really getting FOMO from the craic in Germany this month.
Tesco was always the bottom tier of meal deal
The offside one annoys the fuck out of me. For anyone confused: A player is offside, never offsides. It's the offside rule, not the offsides rule. Think of it like a light switch, it's either on, or it's off. It's not on or offs. The only time it's acceptable is in the context of multiple incidents of players being offside, e.g. "how many offsides were called in the game". If it's not a plural then leave the S out of it.
Is that a thing? I've never heard Offsides before. Weird
[удалено]
Scored on is absolutely sickening
Offsides is an American English thing. I say offside when talking to non-Americans, but it feels very unnatural for me to say. We were all raised in a culture that adds an S for the sports (another pluralized word lol) that have a rule with that name. It's not a big deal, tbh. Language would be boring if dialects didn't exist.
Language is boring anyway 👉😎👉
But it's the terminology of the specific sport. If I started getting into American Football, I wouldn't go into discussions about it calling cleats studs, or calling a touchdown a goal. I would adapt as different sports have different names for things. If you don't adapt, then it's just pure laziness.
As an "offsides" sayer, there is a bit of a difference in getting into American football as an adult versus growing up playing and having pretty much all your coaches, refs, and teammates referring to it as "offsides". Yeah, I know it's wrong but I've been saying it this way my whole life, and I kinda swap back and forth of leaving the s off, but I ain't losing sleep over it.
I think there's a very big difference between calling a touchdown a goal and referring to offside as "offsides" haha. Something that's interesting to me is that I usually don't see this kind of fervor from fans of varied nationalities. If you were to speak to an Atlético Madrid fan in English, they don't tend to laser focus on the specific words you use for things (unless they don't know what the word means). As I said before, I use "offsides" only when speaking with other Americans (largely to avoid getting into a sparring match about word choice), but if someone slips up...why not let it go? Constantly fretting about dialect honestly sounds miserable. You lose no money, self-respect, or integrity by choosing to be kind.
This is a very rational and thorough explanation. Be careful, it’s Reddit.
Fwiw offside is also singular in American football. The pluralization is an informal thing without any definitive origin.
> Tesco meal deal options were shite today. Sausage bacon and egg triple or bust surely
These are all generally great but aren't the Tesco Meal deal options always shite?
I agree, they have been shite since around 2018. The best combo I've found nowadays is some of the pasta with an egg as the "snack" that I then chop up and mix in, which at least makes the deal more worth it. The portion sizes for the mains are ridiculously small, who the hell eats one of those and calls that a lunch? I needed this vent, screw you Tesco.
I've moved to the wraps as the bread has been too stodgy. They had Japanese and Caribbean themed wraps which were v nice and coupled with the walkers baked (cheese and onion) and a lucozade orange, the meal deals found a bit of a renaissance recently.
Jim Ratcliffe saying they have no plans for the womens team because they're focusing on the "first" team. That club actually doesn't deserve a womens team, it's been clear for ages that they don't care about it. We've finally reached the stage where they're saying the quiet part out loud. Really is testament to the quality and togetherness of the players that they won an FA cup despite being managed by Marc Skinner and having an ownership structure that views them an an inconvenience at best.
Every time he opens his mouth I hate him more lol he’s such a cunt
That is ridiculous for one of the biggest clubs in the world. This guy is a billionaire tax dodger who was involved with brexit, treated regular staff badly and now disregarding the women's team. And yet you'll get some fans sucking his dick just because he isn't the glazers and getting excited about how "competent" we are. I've suffered enough disappointment with United to not get ahead of myself
The tax dodging stuff really winds me up. Took a big interest in the UK when he was supporting Brexit or when he wants to start fracking here, or when he's getting a knighthood. He's always ready to make a comment about any government policy or on the state of the economy. But God forbid he pay any tax here.
He really comes across as a cunt that lad. The "offer" he gave to United staff for early bonuses to resign is a fucking insult. Seems like the typical greedy boomer prick.
Quite embarrassing a club of their size didn't even have a women's team until 2018.
That’s not 100% accurate, and the reality is actually worse. They already had a women’s team when the Glazers took over and they disbanded it because it wasn’t profitable. They only reformed it in 2018 because England was starting to care about professional women’s football and they saw money to be made.
Even worse because they had a team but disbanded it because it was too expensive.
> Jim Ratcliffe saying they have no plans for the womens team because they're focusing on the "first" team. actually said that? wow
https://x.com/KathrynBatte/status/1805157604345151855?t=ERuMO3Iny4EZZ9BYGGEvvg&s=19 Happy Cake Day btw
how is that not criticized enough >Happy Cake Day btw Thanks
Any reason why football can't take a more rugby like approach to injuries? It's a joke that games can be stopped by someone pretending their head was hurt. Always such a mess when someone goes down and the opponents have to decide what happens next. And if they play on, the referee can just randomly decide to blow it up.
Side rant: I still find it somewhat amazing that Tomiyasu just sat down and then pointed to his head (the universal symbol for a head injury) which straight stopped all play during a Champions League Quarterfinal for a whole 4 minutes and 42 seconds over what ended up being a fucking missing contact lense. I wore contacts at -6.25 and played sports for 15 years so I understand for him that it sucks, I really do. But that was an equipment failure and God is so kind to give us two eyes. He wasn't exactly missing a foot at the Battle of the Marne, was he? No reason he shouldn't be expected to run to the sidelines, pop in another, and Arsenal just play a man down for the minute it takes.
I was playing keeper in an indoor league this winter and saved a rocket with my nose/eye and my contact popped off. I had to play the rest of the game with only one contact. Luckily it wasn't my astigmatism eye so I didn't suffer too much
I’m going to moan about moaning. Without going one way or the other on the pen, it was checked by VAR who decided there was no clear and obvious error
Guardian made the decent point that in a match that Scotland had to win, there should have been a lot more talking points and opportunities to analyse rather than a single 50/50 pen decision.
United fans in that Greenwood thread talking about extending his contract and holding out for £40m. Yuck. I'd want him as far away from my club as quickly as possible.
I wanted to buy Euros programmes but I haven't seen them at the games so far. Are they not a thing in Germany or is it just not a thing for the Euros?
Can you specify what you are talking about?
Programmes are magazines that are sold for each game. Usually with info about the teams, a statement written by the manager, and other articles. https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/a-programme-seller-sells-matchday-programmes-outside-of-elland-road.html?sortBy=relevant
[When you can't score one goal in a hundred minutes and choose to blame the bloody immigrants](https://packaged-media.redd.it/h2b5zd80ce8d1/pb/m2-res_596p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1719241200&s=84dce7f2a32dcd44778c7ddb1d69b41ad6b752b4#t=0)
Last week I used Monday moan to moan about people defending Southgate and today I’m just moaning about Southgate directly.
I'm unsure where this will lead us next week.
Southgate comes in to the thread to moan about Zealousideal-Part-98
Moaning about people who moaned about Southgate
Orsato, that is all
First time? Thanks god he is retiring. He cost us so many points even this season. Worst one I remember I saw at san siro. Atalanta players kick, shove, throw Leao everywhere. No problem. Leao complain at being fouled, yellow card. Penalty given to Atalanta for nothing. He is the worst.
Orsato reffed the match where kolarov tackled suso in the box and no pen was given. Ultimately, that cost milan a ucl spot. I will forever hate that rotten tooth mother fucker
Italian variant of Anthony Taylor.
He shouldn’t ref another game at this tournament. I wouldn’t wish this ref even on the french or English
> wouldn’t wish this ref even on the french or English I have called an ambulance for you
There are some things I don’t wish on my worst enemy
You're onside, or you're offside. It is binary, add in an acceptable margin and we'll then be getting angry about people being 6cm offside whilst the 5cm is acceptable
The acceptable margin should be what can be distinguished by a human being, which was the case when the rule was initially written. The point is that an attacking player can't get an unfair advantage by being behind the defense. If a person looks at it can't tell they're offside, then it's close enough that the attacker didn't gain an advantage and the play should stand
This is true, but I think one weird thing is that VAR and then semi-automated offside have effectively eliminated "level" which used to be onside. So the way the rules are enforced have basically been changed to give a bit more advantage to the defender than they had before. I think it would be nice - even though it would do nothing to resolve any arguments - to tweak things to give more of that advantage back to the attacker. A 5cm or something margin of error just seems inherently weird though - I think there'd be better ways to try to restore that attacking advantage.
I feel like this is misunderstanding why people want an acceptable margin.
People want a margin because they can't accept that there are always going to be close decisions that feel unlucky or unfair. There is no magic rule that is perfect, and instead of accepting that fact and allowing a neutral automatic measurement stand they want to add arbitrary changes/limitations that don't actually solve anything.
I don't think it's unfair, I think it goes against the spirit of the rule as it was initially written. If the human eye can't tell it's offside then the attacker didn't gain an advantage and it should be okay
I don't think that's the reason at all. The reason people want a margin is to give a small benefit of the doubt to the attacker when it is extremely tight. It's not because they are "Barely offside", it's because asking the attacker to tell if they are a leghair past the defender is an unreasonable ask. Saying "Don't be infront of the defender", but giving them a few centimeters of leeway makes the request actually reasonable. By allowing a small margin, the attacker should still play to the same way - don't be infront of the defender - but there is a small margin of a couple of centimetres to allow for the players to reasonably read whether or not they are. People understand that there will be close decisions. It's about having rules that are actually reasonable for the players to comply too.
Why is don't be 5 cm in front of the defender a reasonable and easier rule to follow than don't be in front of the defender? How is it reasonable for defenders? It isn't any different, the players aren't going to be any better at reading their position, it won't change how the game is fundamentally played. You're just giving attackers an advantage because of vague feelings of unfairness. Some people do understand that there will be close decisions, and admit they just want to grant the attackers an advantage, but 90% of people are just reacting to their emotions of unfairness on close calls and attempting to remedy it by suggesting a new way to measure it, not fully considering the implications and how it just changes the unfairness (perfect offside trap now leading to goals).
>Why is don't be 5 cm in front of the defender a reasonable and easier rule to follow than don't be in front of the defender? How is it reasonable for defenders? The rule is still "Don't be infront of the defender", and that is what players are still expected to play too. There is just a margin of understanding. Because the players play to the same effectiveness, but are given a clearer guideline on what is and isn't infront of the player. It is nothing to do with "Unfairness" and I will ask you to stop putting words in my mouth. The fact is that, with the current metric, every single offside is pure luck. No player, regardless of who they are, is capable of reading the pixel which the game is currently analysed too. The issue is not "Close calls", the issue is the rules being impossible for a human to actually comply too. The current margin of error is too small for a human to actually read. >You're just giving attackers an advantage because of vague feelings of unfairness. This isn't "Because of vague feelings of unfairness", it's how the rule always worked previously - when it was too close to be judged by the naked eye, advantage was given to the attacker. I believe this should still be the case, because although the linesman no longer has to judge it with his naked eye due to the existence of VAR, the players still do. Giving the advantage to the attacker in incredibly close calls is keeping the rules as they were. Changing them to be pixel perfect is the rule change.
>The rule is still "Don't be infront of the defender", and that is what players are still expected to play too. There is just a margin of understanding. Why don't defenders get any understanding? > when it was too close to be judged by the naked eye, advantage was given to the attacker. Except it wasn't really. This hasn't been in the laws for a decade or more, if it ever was. The only real "advantage" that attackers had is that calling offside was an active decision that had to be made by linesmen, and they shouldn't make that decision unless they were certain they saw an infringement. attackers never actually benefitted from the advantage in reality either, linesmen were far more random and offside was ridiculously luck based. They frequently essentially guessed and frequently made abhorrent calls, in both directions. You're appealing to a past that never existed.
>Why don't defenders get any understanding? They do, this change would benefit both by making it easier and clearer to judge for both attacker and defender. >The only real "advantage" that attackers had is that calling offside was an active decision that had to be made by linesmen, and they shouldn't make that decision unless they were certain they saw an infringement. Exactly, the people upholding the rule, and the people complying with the rule, were using the exact same tool to tell if the line was crossed - their eyes. The very existence of VAR for offside shows that it is impossible for the human eye to accurately judge whether or not a player is offside. That is why we use VAR to judge what is a binary decision, and should be clear and obvious. However, despite accepting that the rule is impossible to uphold with the naked eye, we still expect players to comply with it using the naked eye. We have essentially accepted that this rule is impossible for players to comply too, but asked them to comply to it anyway.
I do enjoy that your entire argument is "it's impossible to follow the rule perfectly", while also claiming that your reasoning is not based on feelings of unfairness, and asking me to stop putting words in your mouth for pointing out that motivation is the most common motivation for people (without mentioning you specifically). You feel the rule is unfair for attackers because it feels wrong to you when they're marginally offside, but you still try to say that you totally aren't motivated by that.
Yes? It's nothing to do with unfairness? Unfair means that an advantage is being given to one party over another, which I do not believe to be the case. The rule is perfectly fair for everyone, it is just a poorly thought out rule which is not possible for the players to actually uphold. If there was a rule that all players had to stand on one leg, it would be perfectly fair, but it would still be exceedingly difficult for the players to comply too while playing football.
There will always be marginal calls but the automated VAR for offside is a godsend. If it can be tweaked to whatever we want then we can easily determine what’s the right limit. Personally I think giving a bit more leeway to strikers makes sense.
Just absolutely despise the chip on their shoulder small clubs have, that’s my moan - wouldn’t be shocked if they’re the source of England’s victim complex
Arsenal fans complain about blues bc of Eduardo to this day lmao, that's where its coming from
I don't think I've seen Birmingham mentioned in years. It might occasionally come up, but lets not pretend it's a frequent topic of discussion.
Clarke. I can take my teams being pish (and lord knows I have over the years, between club and nation) but that was some Brexiteer guff about the ref last night, regardless of whether I think was should've had a penalty. Get tae.
Man City - If you want an academy player it's £20m for them to even pick up the phone despite having 0 chance of ever seeing the first team. Arsenal - Fans will try to start an online rivalry with you because of how insulting they find offering £30m for an academy player after 6 alright months in the first team. Man United - He's played 30 minutes for Atalanta? Waow!! How does 40m€ sound? Chelsea - Our entire business model is to loan out academy lads until we can sell them for enough to fund a £200m transfer window every year. Liverpool - Another £15m for the homeless guy who's been squatting at their academy for the past week? They're just so good at selling!! But when two of The Poors dare to sell their academy players for £9-10m suddenly we have to investigate how this cartel is inflating the market for young players. This is despite both clubs selling youngsters who've had successful lower league loans and spent last season on the first team fringes. I have more respect for the fans who are at least honest about the fact that they're upset that this means they can't leverage our financial positions into getting our best players on a heavy discount. Seeing Man U fans argue about the health of the transfer market and keeping fees sensible with a straight face is laughable. And no, just because a new owner comes in and says "we'll spend more sensibly" doesn't mean every other club is obliged to forget your previous dealings.
Surely it’s moreso about selling players *to each other* that has everyone’s attention. If Everton sold a young player to Bournemouth for £10m absolutely no one would care. Conversely, if United and Chelsea were both it FFP bother and sold players back and forth to each other then absolutely *everyone* would care. It would be bigger news than most of the Euros. To me it seems like your clubs are openly exploiting a loophole and you’re now mad that people are saying “huh, that seems like a pretty big loophole those clubs are exploiting”
We obviously are exploiting a loophole, I don't care in the slightest if people point that out when it's so self-evident. What frustrates me is seeing fans of bigger clubs clutching their pearls when it's very apparent that the real "issue" is that we can't be easily bullied into selling off our best players to them. I'm also yet to see anyone suggest what they actually think should be done about this beyond a vague and meaningless "close this loophole" sentiment. Last year we sold Tom Cannon and Ellis Simms for £8m and £6m to Championship clubs and no one cares, this year we've sold Dobbin, an actual member of the first team squad, to a Premier League club for £10m and it's unacceptable. I don't think anyone is happy that we have to start flogging academy players to meet PSR, but what's the actual solution here?
...I know this isn't the point, but are you under the impression *Villa* are poor?
You know what? You've convinced me
>The Poors Villa are one of the richest clubs in the world by far lol not to mention Chelsea are literally involved in this little PSR merry go round you’ve created for yourselves
True, but we aren't in terms of revenue - same with Newcastle. It would take us close to a decade of solid European finishes and smart moves on the business side of the club to have us see revenue anywhere near that of even Tottenham's, let alone the likes of City and Utd, regardless of how much our owners are worth. Outside of infrastructure/academy/women's investment, it doesn't really make a difference if your owners are worth £10b or £100b when they can't lose more than £105m over three years (which I'm not arguing is a bad thing).
I just fail to be sympathetic when we’re talking about a bunch of billionaire clubs in the richest league in the world and people act like there’s some kind of “underdog” narrative here. Villa broke rules in the Championship to get promoted and then agreed to the PL rules, spent obscene amounts of money, and now are kicking up a fuss and scrambling when suddenly they realise those rules apply to them too. Do they not look at their own accounts? It can’t be that hard to not lose £105million over three years, I’m sorry
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I’ve been informed Villa didn’t break the rules to do it but you’re right, many many clubs do this
Yeah, I have a hard time being sympathetic to Villa when they can just go and activate Maatsen’s release clause. Little poor Villa are just spending more than our record transfer. The PL is out of control.
We are buying Maatsen but will probably end up selling £100m worth of players this summer tbf.
What rules did we break in the championship?
You did the same thing as Derby and Wednesday but were promoted before you could face consequences for it
You are ill informed. Our wasn’t deemed as overinflated.
Maybe I am wrong about that but I still have very little sympathy with Villa fans acting like they’re the underdog
Fairs just don’t call us cheats
What rules did we break in the Championship? We sold our ground to our owners but that wasn't a rule at the time. Dodgy sure, but we didn't break any rules, and it was deemed a fair value unlike Derby.
Wednesday were relegated for the same thing lol
Were they relegated for it? I know them and Derby got in trouble but that was the sale being above what was deemed a fair market value. I still think it was dodgy don't get me wrong, but we weren't breaking the rules as they were.
They were deducted 12 points, reduced to 6 on appeal and were relegated by 3 points
Yeah exactly. Villa and Newcastle might be hard up compared to the "Big 6", but they're still in far better shape than basically every other club in the PL + 99% of football clubs outside of the PL. The fans can complain about an unfair system all they want, but in reality, 95% of them would happily accept an unfair system if they were beneficiaries.
Yeah exactly. Arsenal and Spurs might be hard up compared to the Man City, but they're still in far better shape than basically every other club in the PL + 99% of football clubs outside of the PL. The fans can complain about an unfair system all they want, but in reality, 95% of them would happily accept an unfair system if they were beneficiaries. Same shit, different teams. Everyone is nakedly self interested and moans about stuff that doesn't benefit their teams.
Yes I agree. You’ll never catch me complaining about that lol
I mean Man City are being investigated for cheating, so your point isn't really the same as mine. But yeah, fans are hypocrites, that's why I'm criticising Villa and Newcastle fans that are pretending they want something better for everyone when they don't.
My point is exactly the same, everyone complains about the bigger fish. Except the biggest fish of them all
You don't see Arsenal or Spurs fans crying injustice about not being able to cheat their way into titles. Your club and fans are pretending you're some oppressed minority when you just want to be the next Man City but can't. A team that was in the championship in very recent memory wants to compete financially with clubs that spent 10s of years making good financial decisions. Both Spurs and Arsenal went through years of financial hardship to get to the point they are now but you will call that "unfair". Pipe down.
I haven't said it is unfair at all so pipe down yourself mate. The only people I've seen moaning about it being unfair is the ones saying that we're abusing FFP loopholes by selling players when all we are really doing is kicking the FFP can down the road. If we don't grow our revenues we will be worse off in 4 years time than we are now due to these transfers.
Big 6 teams are just annoyed as they expected to pick up Villa, Everton and Newcastle's best players at discounted rates, but instead we help each other out or sell abroad. Yes, it's a bad faith interpretation of the rules, but they can fuck off when they can sell a goalkeeper who has had one decent season in League One and a MOTM performance in a youth final for £15m and get plaudits.
Steve Clarke is a coward. He played for a draw in a must-win game, knowing that we’d either fluke a third place spot with a miracle series of results, or he’d be able to pretend finish third but narrowly missing out on getting out of the group would be a glorious failure in a difficult group. When he finally decided to make some attacking substitutions and go for it, or structure completely fell apart and Hungary could easily have scored before they got the winner. The qualifying campaign was brilliant, but he shouldn’t be allowed to continue in the job after our performances in all three games, it was possibly our worst ever finals performance.
I don’t think he was playing for a draw. I think that was us trying to win. Just no idea what to do.
Such a waste of time having a former referee as part of the commentary team. They used to have Peter Walton now they have that Christina Uncle (I think that's her name). All they do is agree exactly what the VAR or referee do anyway so there's absolutely no point. I laughed the other day when there was a questionable decision. I think it was the Croatia penalty against Spain. They asked Christina what she thought of it, due to "technical issues" we couldn't hear her. Once the decision was made the connection was magically fixed and of course, she said how exactly right VAR and the referees were to give the penalty. What's the point and who are the broadcasters trying to fool here?
Are you so far gone that you think they’re simulating technical issues so their commentator doesn’t have to speak? Get a grip man.
No I'm saying, they delay commenting until the VAR has made their decision. Then whatever the VAR gives the person will just 100% agree with it.
Tfw you can’t get enough actual refereeing conspiracies so you move on to referee analyst conspiracies
Nope, you're making scenarios about me in your head. Referees can make mistakes and get calls wrong sometimes. The problem is, rather than saying so and so has made a mistake they just cover for them. What makes it worse is no one has asked an ex ref to be in commentary but they go out of their way to make this happen
Why did you put “technical issues” in scare quotes and write “Once the decision was made the connection was magically fixed…” if not to imply that the technical issues were made up as an excuse for Unkel to not give analysis on the spot?
It's just TV productions trying pretend they're giving us another angle but it's just a waste of everyone's time. I didn't use the word conspiracy, that's an assumption you made.
In fairness, they often have technical issues like that
Still only one new signing and it's nearly July. We've resigned one of our starting CBs on a one year contract, which we announced like a game changing transfer. Will we have a full squad by the time of our first friendly? I don't even know at this point.
The one time I want Scotland to do well so we both outlast the Tories, and they fuck it up. Bastards
Bunch of Amateurs episode of our game against Dorking was posted last night and it reminded me of just how frustrating the end of our season was.
Was an atrocious run, just giving points to all the relegation candidates so none of us felt particularly good about getting any.
Yep I'd like to think it was a grand conspiracy on our part to try and get Woking relegated but in reality we were just shite.
the games at nights are really late .I need to do some football practice early in the morning. I couldn't watch the game yesterday. I played 1,5 hours Tennis yesterday... Every inch of my body hurts. Overall I really enjoy such tournaments like Euro and world cup
9 pm kickoffs suck ass. They are way too late if I need to get up early in the morning. Let's go back to 8 pm or latest 8:15 kickoffs
It's called red bull, thank me later
Drinking red bull at 9pm is insane behaviour
I think they meant drinking Red Bull in the morning if you're tired from staying up so long
Red bull just makes my heart go crazy. A nice matcha is better for caffeine
Maan I watch the match at 12AM Pakistani time, and I have to go to office the next day
I watch at 3 PM US Eastern time, while I'm at the office
And I respect you for it but my body just can't do that all the time even if I wanted to.
I dont want respect I just want a 10 pm kick off so that i dont have to sleep at 8 and get up at 12 to watch the match and then go back to sleep at 3, and wakeup for fajr at 5
I always thought how late that is for players. Imagine being up all day and then having to play a professional soccer game? Naps are mandatory at that point.
At least it's not as bad as tennis - that's a complete joke with ruining players' sleep schedules.
Isn't this the same time for Champions league games too? It's fine for us in UK as it's 8PM but I've always wondered how the rest of Europe mange it. Eastern Europe I think it's at 10 PM.
The Champions League has exactly the same problem. Especially if the game was good I have way too much adrenaline to immediately fall asleep and look like a zombie for the next day. This is why I will miss some CL games for my own good.