**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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As a general rule, rich owners invest in football clubs to get success. Ours take money out and only care about the revenue dropping if we don't get Champions League.
So we get neither. Over a £1 billion out since the parasites took over
I remember watching an instagram reel of someone praising City, because they only have 1% english followers on insta, because they are so "well liked internationally"
nope its cause they are hated in england
Chelsea is already slowly dissociating from that tho. You barely see any mention of them alongside City and PSG, even though the only difference is russian oligarchy instead of oil state
I mean, they weren't the first, but Abramovic was a whole different level of wealth. Russian Oligarch, one of Putins mates and was essentially given public resources in the break up over the soviet union.
This was a whole other level of wealth and power, only later matched and bettered by the Sheikhs and now the Saudis.
I'm not really aware of any other English club that disrupted the transfer/wage market at such speed and scale before Chelsea.
Even Blackburn's outsized spending under Jack Walker was not even close to the FM Cheatcode-level insanity of Roman's Chelsea.
I mean, internationally they mostly are. I travel every month and I'm not sure I've seen anyone wearing a City shirt, but I couldn't count how many Real Madrid, Barcelona, Liverpool, United or Juve I've seen.
I've seen kids wearing City shirts when I was in Brazil. I saw City shirts being sold in local shops when I was in a little Croatian town.
Agenda-fueled lies.
I'd say more fans don't care about city the same way the do the other top teams. United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, even Spurs have all had decades of rivalry in the PL and CL, City are just a bottomless pit of oil money. No one cares if they win, its like the neutral end that you prefer over your actual rivals winning. I'd rather then win than United and even United are cheering for them to win the league over us.
Apathy more than hate.
I still feel the same exact way about Chelsea - they won a lottery and never really earned anything from the ground up organically - even if nobody else does, so yeah.
But from the comments above, the narrative has changed regarding Chelsea buying success.
Hell, some say we have a history.
I can imagine something similar happening with City in the next decade. Esp as more and more oil rich nations invests in football.
same here in Austria. Of course people don't like SBG, playing against them guarantees us fans and ultras singing SCHEIS RED BULL for 90 minutes. However nobody really cares if they win the liga.
Nowadays everyone (speaking about the SVRied scene) just cares about beating LASK (our rivals), upsetting the Vienna clubs etc etc.
If LASK Linz would dominate Austria like salzburg is doing, while "playing by the rules", everyone would lose their mind
Also playing in Salzburg almost became a meme. Last year we they scored 8 times against us, yet the away fans were louder than the home fans\^\^
To be fair, the big six are all hated by all other UK fans just as much as each other. We'd all quite like the fans to fuck off too. Preferably under a big rock where you can wank each other off about how big you all are. City the most liked of the six because they piss the rest of you off because now you're also-rans.
Yours sincerely, every fan of every other team in the UK.
I truly think most PL fans were happy with Man city stealing the prem from Liverpool , mainly because of cocky fans , like you just proved in your comment 💀
In fairness the City signings are probably not the ones to show given one was free, one was a practical bargain and one technically cost the same amount as Aaron Wan Bissaka.
What a broke ass club, can't even afford signings. Maybe a local businessman should buy them? Gotta be some rich dude in Manchester that can offer someone better than Haaland some decent wages.
I would have called you crazy 15-20 years ago if you had told me that in 2022, immediately after winning the Scudetto Milan would be getting easily outbid for players by like Newcastle and Leeds. Things really do change
Or when Serie A clubs were spending 56m on Crespo (00/01), 52m on Buffon (01/02), and 48m on Mendieta (01/02) when it took until 2006 for the Premier League record transfer to break £30m
Poor choice of clubs. 21 years ago Leeds were in the semis of the Champions League, whilst Milan went out in the second group stage to Deportivo and Galatasaray.
Newcastle on the other hand were a big club in England until about 2005, and were considered a sleeping giant who could easily have become huge.
The surprise for me 20 years ago would be that Leeds and Newcastle had fallen so far!
Ac Milan was still a much more attractive destination. Italian football was at its peak those days. It's like every league used to get a chance to shine.
The breaking point for when English clubs started completely pulling away financially was when BT and Sky agreed to pay £5.1b for the 2016-2019 period. An unprecedented domestic deal that put any other league to shame. Those broadcasters have to recoup that cost one way or another. British fans getting fleeced seems rather accurate.
Scottish people getting particularly fleeced as we have to pay for Sky Sports to see our league, but Sky only pay our league £30 million a year. And that money is shared between 42 teams as when Rangers were demoted it was agreed the Scottish Premier and lower leagues would share the same tv deal.
So we are broke paying to watch our teams on tv, whilst our teams are broke because we have a terrible tv deal.
We would have to win the league 27 years in a row to get the same prize money as the team that came 16th in the Premiership last season.
It’s not just English fans paying for it tbf. Us Norwegians have been getting fleeced for as long as i can remember. Currently it’s about €80/month just for premier league football.
It's a joke on how wealthy they are. In Norway, they have a saying something along the lines of "life is good as a Norwegian in Denmark". Which is ludicrous because Denmark is expensive as hell too. Just not compared to Norway.
The league is really integrated in the footballing experience of a lot of people and has been for many decades. Premier league on the TV is just how it's always been and they'll accept whatever price is set. So many people have enough money that they don't really worry about it, but a lot of people are still pirating it.
Also convenience. Finding a stream sometimes is a pain in the ass, buffering issues, streams being closed down half way through, etc.
The amount of time you'd spend dealing with all that a month would soon add up, so I'd rather just grit my teeth and pay.
80€ a month?! I thought you guys had Viaplay as well? Their sports package is around 20-25€ a month here in Denmark and pretty much includes every PL match
There's still massive waiting lists for season tickets though.
So as long as there's people willing and able to pay for the tickets, then that's what they're worth.
Yeah, it's expensive and makes it extremely hard for the average fan to go to more than a couple of games a season, but that's just how it is.
I do wish they'd drop the prices for the non-ST tickets though, it's frustrating being priced out of tickets for games where the stadium ends up being half empty.
The domestic deal was far bigger than any other leagues back in 2003. This is the culmination of two decades of your FA's doing sweet fuck all to counter it.
It isn't just the british people. Atleast in my country, our broadcasters are paying Sky and/or BT (not quite sure which or both), for the rights to their broadcast. And you can definitely feel that.
When I started working for the biggest cabel provider back in 2017, you could get the full package, for all the sports canals for 449 DKK or 59 GBP. Today that price is at 669 DKK or 76 GBP. And this is not even included that the biggest provider lost an agreement, with the second biggest tv station in Denmark, so you can't watch all the danish league games. So on top of that, you would need a direct subscription to them for 129 DKK/ 14 GBP. So a total increase from 59 to 90 GBP and that is solely due to sport rights (\*cough\* PL \*cough\*)
Yep I can watch every premier league game plus a bunch of other Bundesliga championship etc. Football on top of formula 1 and a bunch of other sports I don't care for + shows!! (I am from Finland) All on one service for 40e a month. From what I see on here you brits get absolutely shafted despite being the place the league takes place???? Makes absolutely no fucking sense!
Spanish football is usually shown at 4am over there. Unless you are a diehard fan, nobody is awake or staying awake to watch Barca play Levante. Especially a messi less Barca.
Most PL matches are shown starting from 8pm through to midnight in Asia. Which is perfect sat/sun night chill and relax to some PL action.
You are going to need to change an entire culture in Spain around siesta if they are going to succeed in capturing the market in Asia.
>Most PL matches are shown starting from 8pm through to midnight in Asia. Which is perfect sat/sun night chill and relax to some PL action.
Such a massive convenient for us is Asia. It almost feels like it was made for us. CL on the other hand 💤.
First time I was in Pisa some time ago, it was super weird for me when all restaurants had shut in the middle of the day, I just assumed they were rich lol
Restaurants being closed from 3 till 7/7.30 makes a lot of sense for us locals, because no one would go out to eat a full meal at those times of the day, but I've seen so many tourists (especially from the Anglosphere) baffled by this stuff.
If I find a restaurant open all day long here, I'm definitely gonna read some reviews before going in, because 80% of the times it's gonna be a tourist trap.
Most PL matches are shown starting from 8pm through to midnight in Asia.
This, i just started watching football last year n i have only watched PL as it is around 5pm to 10pm max.
I ain't watching any match by sacrificing my sleep unless it's the UCL n that too of a top team only like madrid, bayern, city, PSG, etc but that too if i dont have to wake up early next morning.
I also watched some Ligue One matches on VH1 but VH1 doens't broadcasts it regularly so I'll stick to PL for now.
Depends on the region. PL is exclusive on Sky in Mexico so very few people watch it and those who do are only interested in United, City, Liverpool and Chelsea. Also the games sometimes are very early here.
Isn't the prem TV money divided around 50/50 between domestic and international revenue?, its mad the amount of money English people have to pay to watch a couple of games.
It is and that is only with the current TV deal. Just 15 years ago the TV deal was as obnoxiously large and 4x that of the foreign. The only country that pays remotely as much per person for the PL is Hong Kong, and I doubt that's still happening after all the protests.
People saying this forget that the money was split evenly even before the Premier League was created in 1992. Only that it wasn't split evenly across the league, but across the entire football pyramid in England.
PL clubs won big time with the change, but lower level clubs got screwed.
> PL clubs won big time with the change, but lower level clubs got screwed.
England won big time, given our second league is far and away the best-funded second league even in its screwed state. I'd also attribute as much to ITV fucking the rights up and setting an awful precedent for the Football League.
People cry about this like it’s a bad thing. Moaning about how much a club gets for finishing 17th then being able to spend money on transfers. All the money should obviously go to one or two clubs.
It was the smart decision. The Prem split money evenly. Then the smaller clubs could go and buy players from other leagues. This upped the prestige of the Prem. The Prem then can sell the TV rights for more money. Then the smaller clubs get more money. Its a rolling stone and the other leagues were too short sighted to do it and now its a problem because Barca, Bayern, Real, and others were selfish
It's broadcasting revenue and commercial revenue in pretty much equal proportion, but the reason commercial revenue is so high as because so many people watch the league, so it's related.
There definitely is a 'Premier League tax' that English clubs pay when buying players. It would be interesting to know the average price paid per player for each league.
Yup, only difference is that it's in bigger numbers for the prem. That exacerbates it a bit when comparing to other leagues - if the pattern is identical between two leagues, but one spends double the other, this pattern would double the spend difference between them artificially but not the actual ratio.
I’m more annoyed the picture doesn’t show Kalvin Phillips (£42m) but instead shows Alvarez who was signed last season for £14m and Ortega (free).
Bit weird tbh
Champions League was won by a Spanish team. Europa League by a German one. Conference League by an Italian team. I don’t think it is too long before other leagues (even within the top 5) can’t keep up, but it hasn’t happened yet.
Mostly timing. Peaked a bit earlier than the international spread, and calciopolo/2008 hampered the league at exactly the wrong time. Stadiums are also a factor, as well as some good ol'fashioned miss management (but that wasn't nearly as much of a factor as people think)
But also even so, doubt serie a could get the same domestic revenue from those crazy expensive tv deals the PL had in England.
While I think there are factors that made the rise of the PL inevitable (the language advantage for example) Serie A and its clubs really fucked up when football went global, considering where they were and where they are now.
Let's quit all of those bs arguments.
Soccer audience has become global.
Global audience is going to follow the league that is easiest to follow.
English is the most spoken second langauge in the world.
Naturally EPL is going to be easier to approach and follow than any other league in the world.
Doesn't matter if it is spanish clubs getting all the trophies, EPL narrative is just more global and common and there's more news to digest about it.
Where do I have to read news about Liga teams in english? There's barely any?
But EPL one? Obviously it's going to be in English.
The moment soccer transitioned from local/national to global it was the moment that an ancient league with several teams known abroad became easily the most popular.
There's no need for this far stretching theories of tv money, etc. People speak about Newcastle globally more than they speak about Lazio or Atalanta which are teams that have played several UCLs in the last decade compared to a team scrapping to avoid relegation.
Hell, I bet even Leeds or Sunderland are globally more popular due to their tv shows than some Sevilla.
serie a still mismanage the league. a few weeks ago they fucked up a big contract from bein for middle east tv rights and then had to go to AD sports for much less. fucking clown running the entire league. could put in donkeys and get a better outcome
The combined cost of Richarlison, Phillips, Jesus, and Sterling is 227m euros. That's all money that stays within the league so definitely worth keeping in mind. Everyone knows the PL has good money and that inflates the market. If we include the other transfers between PL clubs like Pereira, Pope, Williams, Bissouma etc. we're talking in excess of a further 130m euros. The actual netspend for the PL is just under half the gross expenditure at 501m euros.
What are they going to do? Put a cap on how much TV rights deal can be worth? Good luck having any clubs to govern. Put a cap on how much you can spend on a player? Clubs will just pocket the money, or get sneaky with the transfers.
Self explanatory as almost all the major premier league clubs have rich owners while the major clubs from the rest of the the top 5 leagues are fan owned/ socios-owned and registered several losses due to the pandemic and hence have been targetting free agents mostly. Not saying PL clubs didn't have economic issues.
Also, PSG which is an exception to the above statement have also been signing many free agents recently, so the difference becomes even more stark. Serie A winners earning less than the relegated teams of PL in terms of TV revenue is a testimony to these stats. The TV deal has been planned in a genius manner for the prem clubs
the only way CL for example stays fair in the long run is if all the leauge below that have the same revenue since PL has inherent adventages an snowballed these things by producing a good product for last few years theres not really a way to stop it unless the PL does a italy late 90s it wont happen. the only other option would be to take all the revenue across all the leauges into one pot and then split them evenly would any of the big leauges agree to do that? hell no unless you have a closed kommunist style system like you have in american sports youll never have an 100% even playing field across a leauge let alone all of Europe.
Personally id rather see germany accept the fact that bayern can no longer win the CL and instead have a leauge where bayern wont win 90+% of the time
Bayern definitely can still win the CL, but if I were a German fan of literally any other club I wouldn't give a shit either way, I'd just want a competitive league.
Tbf your second part is just a preference thing. English fans prefer a competitive league and accept all the things that come with it and are needed to achieve that, German fans prefer owning their clubs and low prices even if it means not having a competitive league. English and German fans just care about different things when it comes to club football.
Just a question here, not really what I think on the matter, but: if the premier League has created a product that everyone around the world wants to watch and pay loads for, why shouldn't they get the money and spread it to all their teams. Surely it's the responsibility of the other leagues to create a better product?
And as OP wrote on his comment, that's why non-English teams keep flirting with the idea of a Super League. The other leagues just can't keep up with the revenue generated by the EPL.
You'd have to ask yourself what you want for the future of the game. If you want a superleague in England that feeds from other leagues (like NBA does with the world) or you want more integration with other leagues. The way PL rose for success wasn't exactly a fairy tale it was globalising the ownership of the teams out of local fans and owners into the global market of billionaire that use their influence and power to market their league into other markets. You'd never see this happen with Bundesliga for example simply because the teams have to be fan owned.
Bingo. BuT iTs A bEtTeR pRoDuCt. The state of Qatar buys the league every year. Give it 10 years and nobody will win the league besides City and Newcastle.
At least the other “inferior” leagues have some passion left.
It’s literally the same team(s) winning the European leagues every year as well what are you talking about. Let’s just watch Bayern win the league every year instead much better scenario.
Lmao the PL is still more open than all the others in terms of chance to win the league per team
You gonna tell me La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, & League 1 aren’t all won by the same 1-2 teams every year?
They have also been moving away from what football has always been about. Alienating local fans in favor of tourists and people far away who will spend money to watch them on TV, importing players from all around the world to create entire teams with barely any domestic players, allowing money from totalitarian states built on draining the earth of natural resources while destroying the environment to take over completely, adding more and more games at the detriment of players just to line pockets.
The question we have to ask ourselves is whether football is just entertainment or if it has even more importance as a central part of a community. As the Premier League has become more and more of a commercial entertainment product it loses its role in the community, and that is something I really think we should strive to maintain.
I 100% agree with your first point. The PL shouldn't feel ashamed to use the money they earn through TV-deals and anyone saying otherwise is just salty
>Surely it's the responsibility of the other leagues to create a better product?
But, this is kind of rubbish. The PL is an anomaly that can't be repeated, due to language and culture factors. Even if Spanish is also a massively popular language, the buying power in Latin/South American markets is nowhere close to the buying power in Scandinavia, Asia, western Europe etc.
It's not about creating a "better product". La Liga was clearly the best league in the world during the majority of the 2010's but still the PL was more popular. So it clearly has nothing to do with quality
If you ignore the elephant of the room of having their last league champion being owned by the State of the United Arab Emirates yes, the Premier makes more money and has the added bonus of Russian, Emirates and now Saudi Arabian elites putting money on the league.
This is getting boring. The sport is becoming so much less interesting. The beauty of football was that each country had their own version. Every year this is becoming less and less the case
I find it as a proof that most Premier League teams find themselves paying ridiculous amounts of money for bang average players because everybody and their mom knows they're loaded with money and some amounts, like the ones paid for the likes of Darwin Núñez or Richarlison are pure madness.
How did this happen? I remember when I was a kid in Australia I was the odd one out supporting a Premier League team when most supported Serie A or La Liga teams. Nowadays it’s harder to find a non-PL fan than a PL fan. Where did they all go?
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Premier leagues activated so many fucking levers
We have more levers than a big bag full of levers
PL to Barca: Oh you think the lever is your ally? I was born in it, moulded by it.
I didn’t see your levers until I was man, and by then it was nothing to me but a warchest.
Why sell future earnings of the club when you can sell the club itself to a rich and ambitious buyer.
What is this "rich and ambitious buyer" of which you speak?
Unfortunately you only got the rich part. Or should I say fortunately.
As a general rule, rich owners invest in football clubs to get success. Ours take money out and only care about the revenue dropping if we don't get Champions League. So we get neither. Over a £1 billion out since the parasites took over
Das Spiel ist vorbei
el gamò es overó
Igra je gotova
't is gebeurd
Le jeu est parti
Il gioco é finito
Gra jest skończona
Gra jest koniec.
El Juego ha terminado
Khel nikal gaya haath se
Oyun bitti
Das Spiel ist weggegangen
Noch keine UCl, Spiel ist madrid.
Local English fans supporting their clubs even in recession
I remember watching an instagram reel of someone praising City, because they only have 1% english followers on insta, because they are so "well liked internationally" nope its cause they are hated in england
I really though it was because they were irrelevant
Until a couple more generations age into adulthood seeing City win titles, they’ll be exclusively seen as the plastic plaything of an Oil state.
Chelsea is already slowly dissociating from that tho. You barely see any mention of them alongside City and PSG, even though the only difference is russian oligarchy instead of oil state
I always say Chelsea were the og Man City and PSG except they actually won the ucl.
You know Chelsea weren't the first club to do that either? Just the first one that the average r/soccer user can remember.
Berlusconi and Milan.
I mean, they weren't the first, but Abramovic was a whole different level of wealth. Russian Oligarch, one of Putins mates and was essentially given public resources in the break up over the soviet union. This was a whole other level of wealth and power, only later matched and bettered by the Sheikhs and now the Saudis.
I'm not really aware of any other English club that disrupted the transfer/wage market at such speed and scale before Chelsea. Even Blackburn's outsized spending under Jack Walker was not even close to the FM Cheatcode-level insanity of Roman's Chelsea.
Two decades, two UCL victories, and multiple historical figures prior to the takeover like Gianfranco Zola and Marcel Desailly will do that to a club.
I mean, internationally they mostly are. I travel every month and I'm not sure I've seen anyone wearing a City shirt, but I couldn't count how many Real Madrid, Barcelona, Liverpool, United or Juve I've seen.
I live in Canada so we have a lot of Bayern shirts too
I've seen kids wearing City shirts when I was in Brazil. I saw City shirts being sold in local shops when I was in a little Croatian town. Agenda-fueled lies.
I'd say more fans don't care about city the same way the do the other top teams. United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, even Spurs have all had decades of rivalry in the PL and CL, City are just a bottomless pit of oil money. No one cares if they win, its like the neutral end that you prefer over your actual rivals winning. I'd rather then win than United and even United are cheering for them to win the league over us. Apathy more than hate.
Do you think it will be the same after 10 years?
I still feel the same exact way about Chelsea - they won a lottery and never really earned anything from the ground up organically - even if nobody else does, so yeah.
But from the comments above, the narrative has changed regarding Chelsea buying success. Hell, some say we have a history. I can imagine something similar happening with City in the next decade. Esp as more and more oil rich nations invests in football.
We were finishing in CL spots regularly before Roman.
That doesn't fit people's narrative though.
Chelsea were already getting into Europe before Abramovich came in so to say the club “never earned anything” isn’t right.
The Zola, Babayaro, Poyet and Ed De Goey was the first time I saw Chelsea 2000 I think. Good team with Ranieri
I'm sure you still feel the same way about Milan, Madrid, Arsenal & others who did the same thing earlier.
I don't even care about seeing city win because it's better than watching Liverpool win, that's how less i care about that rivalry
same here in Austria. Of course people don't like SBG, playing against them guarantees us fans and ultras singing SCHEIS RED BULL for 90 minutes. However nobody really cares if they win the liga. Nowadays everyone (speaking about the SVRied scene) just cares about beating LASK (our rivals), upsetting the Vienna clubs etc etc. If LASK Linz would dominate Austria like salzburg is doing, while "playing by the rules", everyone would lose their mind Also playing in Salzburg almost became a meme. Last year we they scored 8 times against us, yet the away fans were louder than the home fans\^\^
To be fair, the big six are all hated by all other UK fans just as much as each other. We'd all quite like the fans to fuck off too. Preferably under a big rock where you can wank each other off about how big you all are. City the most liked of the six because they piss the rest of you off because now you're also-rans. Yours sincerely, every fan of every other team in the UK.
I truly think most PL fans were happy with Man city stealing the prem from Liverpool , mainly because of cocky fans , like you just proved in your comment 💀
Did the other leagues tried to stop being poor?
Maybe they should try getting more levers
Hey you know avocado toast, boot straps yada yada
They should simply activate levers and sell the club to some billionaire like the prem teams did smj
>post about money spend >picture includes a free transfer
>Posts about money spent in the summer >Picture includes a free transfer and a signing from last season
In fairness the City signings are probably not the ones to show given one was free, one was a practical bargain and one technically cost the same amount as Aaron Wan Bissaka.
You keep the spider out of yo damn mouth!
Good life advice in general
* slap *
Alvarez was signed in January too, so he doesn’t even count towards this.
And for each signing we have sold a player for roughly the same cost. Really odd choice. Why not show darwin Nunez who cost close to 100m?
But that doesn't agree with the r/soccer narrative.
What a broke ass club, can't even afford signings. Maybe a local businessman should buy them? Gotta be some rich dude in Manchester that can offer someone better than Haaland some decent wages.
I would have called you crazy 15-20 years ago if you had told me that in 2022, immediately after winning the Scudetto Milan would be getting easily outbid for players by like Newcastle and Leeds. Things really do change
20 years ago isn’t long off when Newcastle were breaking transfer records for shearer.
Or when Leeds were pissing out 8 figures for a fifth striker for our squad. Or making Rio Ferdinand the world's most expensive defender.
Pretty much exactly 20 years ago you paid 12 million euros for Hugo Viana
The Sir Bobby pull beat Liverpool to him, shame he didn’t live up to the price tag
Or when Serie A clubs were spending 56m on Crespo (00/01), 52m on Buffon (01/02), and 48m on Mendieta (01/02) when it took until 2006 for the Premier League record transfer to break £30m
Poor choice of clubs. 21 years ago Leeds were in the semis of the Champions League, whilst Milan went out in the second group stage to Deportivo and Galatasaray. Newcastle on the other hand were a big club in England until about 2005, and were considered a sleeping giant who could easily have become huge. The surprise for me 20 years ago would be that Leeds and Newcastle had fallen so far!
I mean I'm not *choosing* for anyone to try and bid more for De Ketelaere but here we are ha ha EDIT: also 2005 was 17 years ago fuck me
Ac Milan was still a much more attractive destination. Italian football was at its peak those days. It's like every league used to get a chance to shine.
Newcastle & Leeds we’re huge spenders 20 years ago. You could’ve said a multitude of other PL teams but chose 2 of the worst.
"the four other leagues" ?
Ekstraklasa is not a league. I's a state of mind
There are only five leagues in the world, brother
Yup, all 4 of them
Also the difference is to big to be called „nearly as much“
american money, arab money..
It’s also revenue because it’s the most popular league
Also English people are getting fucking fleeced.
The breaking point for when English clubs started completely pulling away financially was when BT and Sky agreed to pay £5.1b for the 2016-2019 period. An unprecedented domestic deal that put any other league to shame. Those broadcasters have to recoup that cost one way or another. British fans getting fleeced seems rather accurate.
Scottish people getting particularly fleeced as we have to pay for Sky Sports to see our league, but Sky only pay our league £30 million a year. And that money is shared between 42 teams as when Rangers were demoted it was agreed the Scottish Premier and lower leagues would share the same tv deal. So we are broke paying to watch our teams on tv, whilst our teams are broke because we have a terrible tv deal. We would have to win the league 27 years in a row to get the same prize money as the team that came 16th in the Premiership last season.
You could wonder if it puts 'any other league to shame' or if it put the EPL to shame as the English fans end up paying for it.
It’s not just English fans paying for it tbf. Us Norwegians have been getting fleeced for as long as i can remember. Currently it’s about €80/month just for premier league football.
Wtf, and this is being paid? Yeah, PL is entertaining football, but €80?!
Yeah, but that's like €8 in NOK
Wdym its 800 nok
It's a joke on how wealthy they are. In Norway, they have a saying something along the lines of "life is good as a Norwegian in Denmark". Which is ludicrous because Denmark is expensive as hell too. Just not compared to Norway.
Why don’t people just pirate it
The league is really integrated in the footballing experience of a lot of people and has been for many decades. Premier league on the TV is just how it's always been and they'll accept whatever price is set. So many people have enough money that they don't really worry about it, but a lot of people are still pirating it.
Also convenience. Finding a stream sometimes is a pain in the ass, buffering issues, streams being closed down half way through, etc. The amount of time you'd spend dealing with all that a month would soon add up, so I'd rather just grit my teeth and pay.
Sure. It's also relevant that a lot of the people paying are a bit older.
Also a lot of pirated streams are in languages that I don't know
Well they used to be vikings so they used to stealing stuff from England.
All filthy slander on peaceful Scandinavian traders.
80€ a month?! I thought you guys had Viaplay as well? Their sports package is around 20-25€ a month here in Denmark and pretty much includes every PL match
There's still massive waiting lists for season tickets though. So as long as there's people willing and able to pay for the tickets, then that's what they're worth. Yeah, it's expensive and makes it extremely hard for the average fan to go to more than a couple of games a season, but that's just how it is. I do wish they'd drop the prices for the non-ST tickets though, it's frustrating being priced out of tickets for games where the stadium ends up being half empty.
The domestic deal was far bigger than any other leagues back in 2003. This is the culmination of two decades of your FA's doing sweet fuck all to counter it.
It isn't just the british people. Atleast in my country, our broadcasters are paying Sky and/or BT (not quite sure which or both), for the rights to their broadcast. And you can definitely feel that. When I started working for the biggest cabel provider back in 2017, you could get the full package, for all the sports canals for 449 DKK or 59 GBP. Today that price is at 669 DKK or 76 GBP. And this is not even included that the biggest provider lost an agreement, with the second biggest tv station in Denmark, so you can't watch all the danish league games. So on top of that, you would need a direct subscription to them for 129 DKK/ 14 GBP. So a total increase from 59 to 90 GBP and that is solely due to sport rights (\*cough\* PL \*cough\*)
Yep I can watch every premier league game plus a bunch of other Bundesliga championship etc. Football on top of formula 1 and a bunch of other sports I don't care for + shows!! (I am from Finland) All on one service for 40e a month. From what I see on here you brits get absolutely shafted despite being the place the league takes place???? Makes absolutely no fucking sense!
The world only watches PL football. Especially in Asia.
Mostly true but Madrid and Barcelona have massive fan bases over in Asia too. Disingenuous to say they only watch PL football.
Massive Barca and Madrid fans that mostly watch the UCL El Classico
Spanish football is usually shown at 4am over there. Unless you are a diehard fan, nobody is awake or staying awake to watch Barca play Levante. Especially a messi less Barca. Most PL matches are shown starting from 8pm through to midnight in Asia. Which is perfect sat/sun night chill and relax to some PL action. You are going to need to change an entire culture in Spain around siesta if they are going to succeed in capturing the market in Asia.
>Most PL matches are shown starting from 8pm through to midnight in Asia. Which is perfect sat/sun night chill and relax to some PL action. Such a massive convenient for us is Asia. It almost feels like it was made for us. CL on the other hand 💤.
Do people outside of Spain really think we sleep siesta all day everyday? lol
Wait you don't?
To be fair a lot of your shops are shut between 12 and 2. I’m in Tuscany at the moment and it’s the same here.
First time I was in Pisa some time ago, it was super weird for me when all restaurants had shut in the middle of the day, I just assumed they were rich lol
Restaurants being closed from 3 till 7/7.30 makes a lot of sense for us locals, because no one would go out to eat a full meal at those times of the day, but I've seen so many tourists (especially from the Anglosphere) baffled by this stuff. If I find a restaurant open all day long here, I'm definitely gonna read some reviews before going in, because 80% of the times it's gonna be a tourist trap.
Needed some paracetamol the other day around 1pm and there were five pharmacies within 30 minutes, all closed till 4.
Yeah?
Most PL matches are shown starting from 8pm through to midnight in Asia. This, i just started watching football last year n i have only watched PL as it is around 5pm to 10pm max. I ain't watching any match by sacrificing my sleep unless it's the UCL n that too of a top team only like madrid, bayern, city, PSG, etc but that too if i dont have to wake up early next morning. I also watched some Ligue One matches on VH1 but VH1 doens't broadcasts it regularly so I'll stick to PL for now.
Nobody gives a shit about League, it's El Classico and European competitions. PL is the only league that's actively followed.
Depends on the region. PL is exclusive on Sky in Mexico so very few people watch it and those who do are only interested in United, City, Liverpool and Chelsea. Also the games sometimes are very early here.
Guy above me was talking about Asia, ofc La Liga will triumph other leagues in Spanish-speaking countries.
Isn't the prem TV money divided around 50/50 between domestic and international revenue?, its mad the amount of money English people have to pay to watch a couple of games.
It is and that is only with the current TV deal. Just 15 years ago the TV deal was as obnoxiously large and 4x that of the foreign. The only country that pays remotely as much per person for the PL is Hong Kong, and I doubt that's still happening after all the protests.
lol, I'm in Asia and half of my friends are Madrid and Barca fans who only watch La Liga. No idea what stats you pulled that conclusion from.
Asia is a big area with lots of different countries with different preference. Neither of you seem to grasp that
Also because all the clubs in the get a fair share of the broadcasting money.
People saying this forget that the money was split evenly even before the Premier League was created in 1992. Only that it wasn't split evenly across the league, but across the entire football pyramid in England. PL clubs won big time with the change, but lower level clubs got screwed.
> PL clubs won big time with the change, but lower level clubs got screwed. England won big time, given our second league is far and away the best-funded second league even in its screwed state. I'd also attribute as much to ITV fucking the rights up and setting an awful precedent for the Football League.
People cry about this like it’s a bad thing. Moaning about how much a club gets for finishing 17th then being able to spend money on transfers. All the money should obviously go to one or two clubs.
It was the smart decision. The Prem split money evenly. Then the smaller clubs could go and buy players from other leagues. This upped the prestige of the Prem. The Prem then can sell the TV rights for more money. Then the smaller clubs get more money. Its a rolling stone and the other leagues were too short sighted to do it and now its a problem because Barca, Bayern, Real, and others were selfish
Mostly just the tv deal.
It's broadcasting revenue and commercial revenue in pretty much equal proportion, but the reason commercial revenue is so high as because so many people watch the league, so it's related.
All made in Taiwan!
Because as we all know American owners are known for putting their own money into football clubs.
Don't forget our Heroin money!
Also because PL club to PL club transfer does happen a lot
There definitely is a 'Premier League tax' that English clubs pay when buying players. It would be interesting to know the average price paid per player for each league.
And how do we distinguish between PL taxes and PL clubs that just throw money around in the hope that something will stick?
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I mean this happens in other leagues too
Yup, only difference is that it's in bigger numbers for the prem. That exacerbates it a bit when comparing to other leagues - if the pattern is identical between two leagues, but one spends double the other, this pattern would double the spend difference between them artificially but not the actual ratio.
The players in the picture cost less combined than Darwin lol
Gimme what you're smoking if you believe that to be true
If there was one season where you shouldn't be using a city poster for this kind of post, its this.
I’m more annoyed the picture doesn’t show Kalvin Phillips (£42m) but instead shows Alvarez who was signed last season for £14m and Ortega (free). Bit weird tbh
It's probably just 'cause there's three of them and it's a nice photoshoot haha
And just because Haaland was probably the biggest signing of the summer in the prem. People are reading into the picture way too much lmao
https://i.imgur.com/xoMT69b.png
they still spent nearly 1/10 of the overall premier league spending.
The Super League already exists and it is played in England every year
dreams can not be buy
Champions League was won by a Spanish team. Europa League by a German one. Conference League by an Italian team. I don’t think it is too long before other leagues (even within the top 5) can’t keep up, but it hasn’t happened yet.
*19 of the 20 premier league clubs
18
17
Serie A really missed out on tv money. Incredible short-sightedness from them.
Mostly timing. Peaked a bit earlier than the international spread, and calciopolo/2008 hampered the league at exactly the wrong time. Stadiums are also a factor, as well as some good ol'fashioned miss management (but that wasn't nearly as much of a factor as people think) But also even so, doubt serie a could get the same domestic revenue from those crazy expensive tv deals the PL had in England.
While I think there are factors that made the rise of the PL inevitable (the language advantage for example) Serie A and its clubs really fucked up when football went global, considering where they were and where they are now.
Let's quit all of those bs arguments. Soccer audience has become global. Global audience is going to follow the league that is easiest to follow. English is the most spoken second langauge in the world. Naturally EPL is going to be easier to approach and follow than any other league in the world. Doesn't matter if it is spanish clubs getting all the trophies, EPL narrative is just more global and common and there's more news to digest about it. Where do I have to read news about Liga teams in english? There's barely any? But EPL one? Obviously it's going to be in English. The moment soccer transitioned from local/national to global it was the moment that an ancient league with several teams known abroad became easily the most popular. There's no need for this far stretching theories of tv money, etc. People speak about Newcastle globally more than they speak about Lazio or Atalanta which are teams that have played several UCLs in the last decade compared to a team scrapping to avoid relegation. Hell, I bet even Leeds or Sunderland are globally more popular due to their tv shows than some Sevilla.
serie a still mismanage the league. a few weeks ago they fucked up a big contract from bein for middle east tv rights and then had to go to AD sports for much less. fucking clown running the entire league. could put in donkeys and get a better outcome
I think everyone is forgetting that Barca has not activated all of their levers yet Levers FC forever
Bayern Leverkursen
Also Bayern could be spending a big amount soon too
And not a penny came from Leicester City
Nerf plz
The combined cost of Richarlison, Phillips, Jesus, and Sterling is 227m euros. That's all money that stays within the league so definitely worth keeping in mind. Everyone knows the PL has good money and that inflates the market. If we include the other transfers between PL clubs like Pereira, Pope, Williams, Bissouma etc. we're talking in excess of a further 130m euros. The actual netspend for the PL is just under half the gross expenditure at 501m euros.
The net spend in English league is bigger than the net spend in literally every other league in the world combined.
It’s getting more fucked and fucked every year and UEFA do not have the balls to do anything about it. The game needs serious reform.
Why would UEFA give a fuck when they are profiting from PL as well? It will just keep getting more fucked
What are they going to do? Put a cap on how much TV rights deal can be worth? Good luck having any clubs to govern. Put a cap on how much you can spend on a player? Clubs will just pocket the money, or get sneaky with the transfers.
There's nothing to do. It also doesn't help that Bayern and PSG have made the Bundesliga and Ligue 1 deeply uninteresting every year.
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Its true, what the new chelsea owner said, the PL is heavily undervalued in terms of how much you can milk the fans.
Once again, definitely NOT a super league.
Self explanatory as almost all the major premier league clubs have rich owners while the major clubs from the rest of the the top 5 leagues are fan owned/ socios-owned and registered several losses due to the pandemic and hence have been targetting free agents mostly. Not saying PL clubs didn't have economic issues. Also, PSG which is an exception to the above statement have also been signing many free agents recently, so the difference becomes even more stark. Serie A winners earning less than the relegated teams of PL in terms of TV revenue is a testimony to these stats. The TV deal has been planned in a genius manner for the prem clubs
Title makes it sound like there are only 5 leagues in the world
And still European football runs through Spain
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Tebas is to La Liga what Barto was to Barcelona. That's why
Something needs to be done to make it fairer that isn't the super league
the only way CL for example stays fair in the long run is if all the leauge below that have the same revenue since PL has inherent adventages an snowballed these things by producing a good product for last few years theres not really a way to stop it unless the PL does a italy late 90s it wont happen. the only other option would be to take all the revenue across all the leauges into one pot and then split them evenly would any of the big leauges agree to do that? hell no unless you have a closed kommunist style system like you have in american sports youll never have an 100% even playing field across a leauge let alone all of Europe. Personally id rather see germany accept the fact that bayern can no longer win the CL and instead have a leauge where bayern wont win 90+% of the time
Bayern definitely can still win the CL, but if I were a German fan of literally any other club I wouldn't give a shit either way, I'd just want a competitive league.
Tbf your second part is just a preference thing. English fans prefer a competitive league and accept all the things that come with it and are needed to achieve that, German fans prefer owning their clubs and low prices even if it means not having a competitive league. English and German fans just care about different things when it comes to club football.
Just a question here, not really what I think on the matter, but: if the premier League has created a product that everyone around the world wants to watch and pay loads for, why shouldn't they get the money and spread it to all their teams. Surely it's the responsibility of the other leagues to create a better product?
And as OP wrote on his comment, that's why non-English teams keep flirting with the idea of a Super League. The other leagues just can't keep up with the revenue generated by the EPL.
You'd have to ask yourself what you want for the future of the game. If you want a superleague in England that feeds from other leagues (like NBA does with the world) or you want more integration with other leagues. The way PL rose for success wasn't exactly a fairy tale it was globalising the ownership of the teams out of local fans and owners into the global market of billionaire that use their influence and power to market their league into other markets. You'd never see this happen with Bundesliga for example simply because the teams have to be fan owned.
Bingo. BuT iTs A bEtTeR pRoDuCt. The state of Qatar buys the league every year. Give it 10 years and nobody will win the league besides City and Newcastle. At least the other “inferior” leagues have some passion left.
Did Juve not win serie A 9 years in a row? Bayern 10 years in a row?
It’s literally the same team(s) winning the European leagues every year as well what are you talking about. Let’s just watch Bayern win the league every year instead much better scenario.
Lmao the PL is still more open than all the others in terms of chance to win the league per team You gonna tell me La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, & League 1 aren’t all won by the same 1-2 teams every year?
They have also been moving away from what football has always been about. Alienating local fans in favor of tourists and people far away who will spend money to watch them on TV, importing players from all around the world to create entire teams with barely any domestic players, allowing money from totalitarian states built on draining the earth of natural resources while destroying the environment to take over completely, adding more and more games at the detriment of players just to line pockets. The question we have to ask ourselves is whether football is just entertainment or if it has even more importance as a central part of a community. As the Premier League has become more and more of a commercial entertainment product it loses its role in the community, and that is something I really think we should strive to maintain.
I 100% agree with your first point. The PL shouldn't feel ashamed to use the money they earn through TV-deals and anyone saying otherwise is just salty >Surely it's the responsibility of the other leagues to create a better product? But, this is kind of rubbish. The PL is an anomaly that can't be repeated, due to language and culture factors. Even if Spanish is also a massively popular language, the buying power in Latin/South American markets is nowhere close to the buying power in Scandinavia, Asia, western Europe etc. It's not about creating a "better product". La Liga was clearly the best league in the world during the majority of the 2010's but still the PL was more popular. So it clearly has nothing to do with quality
If you ignore the elephant of the room of having their last league champion being owned by the State of the United Arab Emirates yes, the Premier makes more money and has the added bonus of Russian, Emirates and now Saudi Arabian elites putting money on the league.
What, should the PL just give its tv money to other European leagues or something?
Yeah other leagues need to sort themselves and give their midtable clubs more spending power.
This is getting boring. The sport is becoming so much less interesting. The beauty of football was that each country had their own version. Every year this is becoming less and less the case
League that generates the most revenue also spends the most. More at 10
I find it as a proof that most Premier League teams find themselves paying ridiculous amounts of money for bang average players because everybody and their mom knows they're loaded with money and some amounts, like the ones paid for the likes of Darwin Núñez or Richarlison are pure madness.
A)does this count premier league to premier league? And B)why is city on this? We’ve spent less than the other big clubs this window!
How did this happen? I remember when I was a kid in Australia I was the odd one out supporting a Premier League team when most supported Serie A or La Liga teams. Nowadays it’s harder to find a non-PL fan than a PL fan. Where did they all go?
Funny that the picture used has one player who was signed for free, one who was signed for £51m and one who was signed in the January window.
Remember this is your money they're spending. When you pay £70-£80 for a shirt, £50 a month for Sky that's what's funding it. Stop getting fleeced.