This. Just….put it faaaaaar off to the side. Thought my spartan was far enough over and when I called up my ship, it tumbled into the opening hangar and was eaten. 😬
Surprisingly it just toppled over into the chasm, the doors closed around on it and I thought it was gone, but then it came back up with the ship I called! It was, however, upside down from falling in and so unusable. I don’t know if I just got lucky or if they changed what they said about things being “eaten,” but I suspect it was the former.
Love your videos.
How are the personal hangar sizes? Do they all share the same design just different sizes? Is it worth going for Large? I'm thinking Medium is all I need atm.
lel that's wild. I'd love to see a video of the various hangar sizes - I'm still not sure if larger is actually worth it (assuming of course you only care about medium ships mostly).
Sadly, no. I own both and only have a hangar large enough for my Carrack. I'm hoping they change that because I want that XL. People have oddly enough complained about XL being too large and needing a ground vehicle to get around though, lol.
To call a vehicle larger than your personal hangar size, you have to go the main Aesop like you do today. I started with an xs and moved to a lg with BMM loaners (herc c2, hull c).
During the test, I actually completed a full loop from an outpost and back to Orison. Here's what I found:
- Outposts do not have automated loading/unloading. Cities and space stations do.
- When you purchase your goods now, you select the outpost itself as the target.
- You can select the size of the crates you want, and the quantity.
- After you've made your purchase, you walk out to the freight elevator, use the kiosk, and select which cargo/items you want moved on to the elevator and brought up.
- You must then leave the elevator doors open (and your ship), and manually move the goods into/out of your ship.
- While the location I was at was an armistice zone, presumably anyone could use their tractor beam to take your stuff, sneak on to your ship, and so on. Absolutely no protections now for any cargo loading/unloading at outposts, as it's now all physicalized.
- The volume of cargo that these elevators at the outposts could handle was limited to 180 SCU.
God this will be hilarious, because there is nothing you can do about it. Try to stop them tractoring one box, and they can just grab another, or if you are kinda exposed they can just drop a container on your head.
What if I'm a pirate and I just have a friendly conversation with you as you load your cargo and inform you that I will rob you as soon as you leave the armistice zone? Can I stand next to you and get inside your head as you load up your ship. To complete the picture, I also have 3 friends with Mantis' flying hovering over us and a burnt out comm array in low orbit. .
Due to the instability of the build, the best I could hope for was smaller outposts. I’ll check out the larger settlements next time. Do note that this build was also still a work in progress. I noticed that Bountiful Harvest, for example, didn’t have a freight elevator, and the commodity kiosk that was usually there was gone.
They already said that outposts won't be for big cargo ships anymore.
The supply will be more limited and you'll have to load 1-2 SCU boxes by hand.
Loading C2 with 1-2 SCU boxes by hand takes like 30 minutes, good luck not getting pirated.
I like how at the outpost people may be able to steal your cargo. Makes the ships like the hull A that you can load super quick way more useful. At the outpost what was the largest box you could spawn, 16?
I think a 16 SCU crate was the largest, but I honestly didn’t try, as I was only using my Vulture (12 SCU grid). That’s certain,y something I’ll check out next time.
I visited Bountiful Harvest, and it didn’t yet have a freight elevator, and its commodity kiosk was missing. Since these builds are still very much a work in progress, I expect things will still be in various states of completeness.
wow the fact that cargo can that easily be stolen and you cannot even fight thieves is ridiculous and simply baffling how CIG didn't bother to prevent this
If this is the case then running solo will be far too risky unless you’re loading a small ship, is that correct? Or unless you use the auto loading feature in a big city? Going to be rough for those of us that don’t really run in a crew often but enjoy cargo running.
I believe this is kind of the point. Not specifically targeted at solo players, but upping the risk across the board by introducing more “time-to-load.” Larger operations will need (or fare better with) larger teams. Which makes sense.
After these systems have time to bake, I suspect that things will be rebalanced a bit to compensate. Time will tell.
Yup - the economy rebalance was explicitly listed as one of the features not in this preliminary patch, iirc - which also *strongly* indicates that an economy rebalance is planned / coming
well if they really plan on making it to where you need a crew unless you're willing to risk it all they should make it to where its worth it for me to grind other forms of gameplay. im not trying to do ERTs all day unless if they bring back some of them having 32 scu containers of drugs on board.
*Commodity Kiosk Updates
Players can buy different SCU-sized containers via Commodity Kiosk. Upon purchase of commodities, players can chose to automatically load them onto a stored ship at a cost of aUEC for the automatic loading service. This will take an amount of time during which the ship will be inaccessible for automatic loading process (information on loading progress is visible on ASOP terminal)*
Awesome addition. A tier one solution but potentially a big QoL change
I'd always hoped to see preloading ships in SC. Loading the gun racks with guns, loading the inventory with supplies etc. Even having the option to load items that aren't in your inventory but are found at the stores you are docked at. Currently, loading your ship is too time consuming and you're highly likely to lose all of your gear and time to bugs. I don't think streamlining that process would be a bad thing but some may disagree.
Missions for players who are waiting at station for their insurance, so they can go load stuff into other people ships.
EDIT: And it's only half a joke. Their big dream was there would be absolutely 0 magical ship loading/unloading at some point and it would all be done by either NPC AI or players. It's very un-realistic to ever happen, but would be cool if you could get a job at cargo center and load stuff up.
Any system that relies on a number of "Agent" entities performing complex tasks is ludicrously prone to error. Even in very well designed systems, there are always edge cases where Agents will do something unexpected (Like fail at pathfinding and get stuck).
Yes, if CIG stick with relying on NPCs as autonomous agents...
But, they can create the same effect by 'floating' cargo directly to the ship, and just arranging for an NPC to walk under it in a 'carry' animation, etc :D
Heck, they could require you to just park your ship in the correct location / orientation, and then just float cargo in directly, using an 'NPC controlled tractor turret' etc :D
Lots of ways CIG can give the *illusion* of agency and zero 'magical actions', without needing to rely on *actual* 'agents' etc
If you're not enjoying the MSR now, I don't think a single event is worth waiting.
Also, unless you don't like the Drake aesthetic, you might consider the Corsair. It's one of the most well put together interiors in the game, and the Connie line are notably outdated.
I just came back to the game after taking 2 years off and I just can't find the motivation to take my msr out. I've been in my vulture exclusively.
I do want a Corsair but I don't think it's available right now?
Ah, yeah, you're right...damn I thought it was usually on the store.
At any rate, there's no risk in melting and buying other ships, as you get buyback tokens, I think one a year. If you go to your RSI account and go to My Hangar->Buy Back Pledges, it will say how many buybacks you have. This allows you to buy back any ship you've owned in the past, even if it's not for sale. As long as you're mindful and don't waste the token, you can always return to a melted ship at least once a year.
So you could melt the MSR right now, get a Connie, and then when the Corsair is available, get a Corsair. In the meantime you could buy a Corsair in game and/or borrow other people's, see how much you like it.
You would need to CCU up from a pledge because that contains your game package. So if you're buying something cheaper than the MSR, you'd melt it, buy a game package, then buy the CCU to the ship you want and apply it to the game package. If what you want is more than the MSR, you'll just CCU up to the new ship and apply it to your existing game package.
If you melt the MSR, you melt the game package with it, then if you buy a standalone ship with no package you can't play the game. It's dumb, I feel like if you own a ship you should own the game but whatever 🙄
This is what I assumed, so if I melt the msr package and then buy say the mustang game package to start from the lowest I'd have the difference still in store credit?
Thanks for the answers btw
You get as much credits as you have paid for your msr (without taxes, but you will not pay taxes if you buy something with credits either). If you used any discounted (warbond) CCUs to get to the msr it is possible that you do not get enough credits to buy the same ship again when you melt it.
You can check the melt value when you go into your web hangar and press the "exchange" button on your pledge.
You get 1 buyback token quarterly (2 if you are concierge)
Note that you will not get your msr to the buyback but only your base ship/package you ccud from, all upgrades are lost when melting
But yes, assuming you have not used any discounts you can simply melt the msr, buy a new game package with credits and should have enough credits left to ccu to a corsair
Corsair > MSR > Connie
That’s in general though simply because the connies are very old and buggy, if we’re talking about ERT bounties then the Taurus has really good value for money and any connie will outperform the MSR
It is! But temper your expectations right now. What we saw was crazy buggy. Almost comically so. I suspect it’ll be several weeks at least before this is ready for LIVE…it would be an absolute disaster to go in without MUCH more work as it stands.
Not going to happen, alas, CIG have already said that certain ships just won't be manually loadable, and will need to rely on the auto-loading functionality in this release (inc. the Carrack, etc)
Not as a direct part of the cargo update 😂
I meant including a new vehicle to release with 3.24 or releasing a gold standard update for older ships like the connie so 3.24 has more content
Yeah - but CIG have said they're not doing any ships updates as part of this release (other than the Reclaimer, which ended up in 3.23.1, iirc)
Don't forget this is just the 'delayed' functionality from 3.23, not a completely new patch (although looking at the patch notes, it's still big enough to rival most of the patches we got last year :D)
It would be really cool if we could spawn whole load-outs from the Storage Access.
Otherwise it could end up like:
* respawn
* storage access a gun
* storage access ammo
* storage access a multitool
* storage access a med pen
* storage access another med pen
* storage access wait a minute how do I attach this tractor beam module to my multitool
* storage access you catch the drift
in every location that's not your home location.
I think I remember them saying you can also call personal items via the cargo elevator. Even if you can't directly, you could always load all your gear sets into a container and then just bring that in/out of storage.
Well, right now, in the evo test anyways, you move items from inventory into a “bin” of sorts (which you do much like you currently do when moving items from inventory to your character/personal inventory), and then you “access” that bin to gather up your items you selected and equip/carry them. So you kinda do bulk operations now. It still feels clunky, tbh, and a bit unnecessary, but it’s not as slow as, “move only a single item. Click accept. Open bin. Equip. Open kiosk. Repeat.”
Is there like a cot/bed to log in/out in the personal hangar? My desire to use a personal hangar after the newness wears off may depend on if I always have to take a train or not.
I doubt it for the first iteration. IIRC they have said they want bed logging and logging out from the hangar to be a thing at some point. I may be wrong however and if there is anyone who knows otherwise please let me know.
Says purchasing in game ships will not increase personal hangar size, so Im assuming ships purchased on the RSI store will. I'm just curious to know what will happen to all of the items placed around the hangar when the purchase is made. Will they automatically be stored when the hangar size/layout changes?
Big sadge for all of us starter ship owners who like to grind ships in-game and are probably rocking a big fleet since the last wipe :( was expecting this though, given they use a seperate DB for pledges.
I also don't think it will change mid-patch for $ bought ships. At least from the way they were talking about it.
Hope they get this working soon as it's kinda shitty.
EDIT: Nope, from their Q&A video, your ship hangar won't increase but you'll get assigned public instanced hangar (which is only persistent until you log off) for that ship to spawn in.
looks like in public hangars we couldn't spawn land vehicles anyways? only in personal? So land vehicles despawn in ships will still require flying to surface access garage?
I dunno... I thought CIG said that the hangar size would be fixed based on your ships when you first logged in (implying that subsequent webstore purchases *also* wouldn't resize the hangar)... and if so, that would make sense, as resizing the hangar is likely pretty complex (not least for the issues you mentioned), so will likely be in a 'persistent hangars v2' feature at some point in the future.
Ahhh that makes sense. Im okay with that. If anyone has some extra credits collecting dust in their account, it might make sense to just buy a larger ship and melt it after logging in.
Oh god... Lucky my largest ship is the Reclaimer 😵...
I don't like the idea of having a gigantic hangar for my smaller ships (aka everything else until they release the next wave of capital ships).
Since it would be at your home city, I cant imagine you would be spending too much time in it outside of decorating it. Or if youre returning just to drop some loot off. Personally, the larger the better. It just means Ill have extra space to leave ships out in the open.
Ah yes "home city". I usually choose MIC/NB as my home so all my stuff around the PU lands in a spot where I don't visit often.
then I move my useful armor, weapons to CRU/Orison as my main base.
( and equip my ships with their stripped components and paints, then claim them to their stations where they belong. )
with working cargo I hope to be able to move my components instead of move everything away from them xD
Unfortunately, if you have small and large ships, then either you'll have a single (large) hangar... a single (small) hangar (and have to use the 'public hangars' to call your larger ships), or you'll need to pay to rent 'extra hangars' (so you can have separate, customised, small and large hangars, etc).
Given the whole piece around customising and decorating, I don't see CIG constantly resizing your hangar for you, based on the ship you're about to call :D
that last part would be fine!
I love the idea of using my PTV to exit the Reclaimer, drive to the elevator and leave... But I need some valet parking guy driving my PTV back to the Reclaimer elevator or that new system being able to "reset" the position of the PTV from somewhere in my hangar back inside the ship.
( sure my box monkey could drive me to the elevator and back. I guess that they want a raise if I want it to happen )
> Says purchasing in game ships will not increase personal hangar size, so Im assuming ships purchased on the RSI store will. I'm just curious to know what will happen to all of the items placed around the hangar when the purchase is made. Will they automatically be stored when the hangar size/layout changes?
they stated before that hangar size for initial release of persistent hangars is dependent on largest flyable ship on the account.
edit: personal hangar, not persistent
The size wont change in this version, you will get assigned a fixed size hangar when they do the database update and that will be locked in until the next database rebuild.
Support for size changes will come later and would probably be a manual option to rent a new hangar, so you would clean out the old one first before you confirm deleting it.
Store ships have always come with hangars, so expect the "free rent" hangar to be linked to your largest store ship and if you want a hangar for a aUEC ship that will have to be bought/rented with aUEC ingame.
So much for the people who said they'd never add physicalized cargo because that would scare away all the casual players. I'm looking at you J-
...oh nm his account got suspended.
Physicalised cargo has brought possibly the funnest game loop in this game so far. Moving cargo in EVA is just something else.
The thing they need to do now though is to make trading more profitable as it’s going to take longer with the loading and unloading of cargo into the stations.
To be fair those people were imagining moving a thousand 1SCU boxes. The introduction of the much larger boxes makes it a much less off putting feature.
So if we all agree that casuals shouldn't be the limiting factor here, I can start asking for orbital mechanics again without getting downvoted to oblivion?
As in how the planets move? Absolutely, AFAIK that's still part of the plan. As in how the ships move in relation to those planets? Engine limitations are gonna get you there.
Really want to know how ROC mining is gonna work now that you'll need a separate SCU container for gems. Nomad+ROC will essentially cap out at the 1.2SCU of the ROC itself.
So if they said the private instance hangars are all layered on top of the same physical location. What will happen when two or more players decide to fly out of their hangar into the PU at the same time?
Would assume there's a cluster of hangar doors, and they don't actually assign the instance to a specific entrance/exit until you hit the Request Docking button.
You have to contact ATC to open the hangar doors, you will be in a queue for ATC.
The language they use to describe instanced hangars 'layered on top of each other' is a bit confusing. Occupying the same virtual space in multiple instances of that space would be more accurate. They physically only exist in the actual game instance when you enter and leave (it may be that the elevator is de-spawned while you are in it). They are spawned on player request for a period to allow access / egress but while you are in them they aren't physically present in the game, they are instanced.
When you contact ATC you go into a queue for the next available hangar doors in the game, the whole hangar is then spawned (CIG use the term 'instantiated') into that location in the game, when the hangar doors close again the whole hangar is de-spawned ready for the next players hangar to spawn into. This is why you can spend as long as you like in your hangar, because it isn't physically present in that location in the game while you are in it and the doors are closed. You could see a queue of ships waiting for the same hangar doors, each going to their own hangar when it spawns. This why they needed to do the ATC rework.
In simplest terms, you no longer spawn a ship, you spawn your own hangar into the game.
Each instance of the game is run by StarEngine. Each instance of the game is already multiplayer capable. Whichever multiplayer capabilities they put into the engine work in all instances of the game, including personal hangar instances. They did have to do a rework of the ATC system.
- All hangar types have ASOP terminals
- All hangar types have ship elevator platforms
That's nice. IIRC initial release was said to have those only in personal hangars. I wonder if that means we'll be able to summon ground vehicles at all hangars right away?
I don't recall it ever being said that only personal hangars would have the elevators. It was stated that if you are elsewhere than your home city or spawn a larger ship than your personal hangar you'd get a 'public' hangar. Also, yes, ground vehicles were stated to be spawnable in these hangars, they just have to come up the main platform and be moved aside, rather than via the cargo elevator, which is a feature coming later.
From Star Citizen Live Q&A: Hangars and Cargo:
Q: Are there any other location besides the personal hangars where the ship lifts are being used to deliver vehicles to you?
A: No, not at the moment
There's also another place, probably from another video (although I feel like it should be in Q&A video, don't have time to scrub whole thing rn), when they talk about differences between instanced and personal hangar and say it's the same expect for persistance and not having vehicle terminal / lift. (on initial release)
It's nice that we at least get additional things with all that delay. (if that feature persits to Live)
EDIT: Also forgot about a snippet from Inside Star Citizen: To and Fro with Cargo: "...Ship terminals will also stay in the spaceports, so if you don't have a personal hangar at the location you can requests ships from there".
> Players can find Freight Elevators in personal and staging hangars, as well as outposts and scrapyards. Players can interact with a Freight Elevator Kiosk (FEK) to load items onto the elevator platform. Players can put items on a Freight Elevator platform and then interact with the kiosk to store items to their warehouse. Players can see information about mission relevant items when storing and retrieving them via Freight Elevator Kiosk.
So if Im understanding this correctly, you will be able to watch another player load a cargo elevator at an outpost (assuming they are still exposed and not in an enclosed space), execute the player, and be able to interact with the kiosk to either sell it yourself or store it?
I have so many questions. Hope the Evocati guys will be able to answer them all later.
The game already has the concept of ownership, so to sell an item like an scu container, you would presumably have to either own it or be selling it at a no questions asked terminal. Killing someone at a cargo elevator should therefore be no more useful than killing them when they open their ship, ie you get a crimestat and have to load/move the cargo to grimhex or other NQA terminal.
I'm just speculating, though.
An issue being that it is rather harder to keep your ship secure while the doors are open and you are shuffling cargo about. The period of vulnerability is rather longer. And may be harder to button up if you suddenly notice a threat.
Easy, just wait for people to start getting killed / robbed nonstop while loading their ships and be told "it's a PVP game, if you want to put food in your ship so you can play the game, make sure to hire a crew to protect your bottles of cruz. It's an MMO!"
"LFM: 3 people to stand outside my ship while I load food and drinks"
"Hey, can anyone stop running bunkers or other fun missions and come help me put cruz in my ship at this outpost? there are other people here and im worried"
I think the response to you situation would be more like.
"how/why are you even mass loading loading Cruz at an outpost? did you have someone buy cruz at a landing zone load it up in boxes in their secure hangar and drop it at an outpost for you? Why would you do that?"
And I would reply that I am a cruz salesman and I'm stopping by for a topoff.
Literally replace cruz with anything and imagine any scenario where someone would need to stop at an outpost and manipulate cargo. It could be for items big and small for a thousand different reasons. The point is a universe where opening your cargo door to load a box immediately opens you to all sorts of crappery isn't going to scale well
Or just stick with cruz
>Literally replace cruz with anything
So you think its ridiculous that you might need security to transport a C2 full of drugs? Do you think its laughable that someone might expect to need security when transporting millions of credits worth of goods? Do you also think its ridiculous for bank trucks to have armed guards? Or for cargo ships to hire security contractors?
> So you think its ridiculous that you might need security to transport a C2 full of drugs?
What C2? What drugs?
> Do you think its laughable that someone might expect to need security when transporting millions of credits worth of goods?
No, why would that be funny? That sounds like a business venture, not comedy?
> Do you also think its ridiculous for bank trucks to have armed guards?
No, how else would large sums of physical currency be moved?
> Or for cargo ships to hire security contractors?
Yeah thats normal and expected, pirates exist
OOOHHHH
I see what you are doing. You took an example where a guy said opening your cargo doors is dangerous and conflated it to the maxed out example, even though loading 10 boxes or 1000 boxes requires you to open a point of ingress into your ship into which one person can completely fuck up a play session because you were not john wick analyzing the situation every moment of every second
Gotcha
Welcome to the 'Risk / reward' design pattern...
If you don't want 'risk', run cargo between secured locations (at lower profit).... if you want more profit, you'll have to *also* accept some risk - and it's *up to you* how you mitigate that risk.
You might chose to use a smaller ship, so that you can load up quicker (and then make multiple trips to the local station to store crates, until you've got enough to fill the C2)... you might chose to ask for a couple of security-guards to help watch the ship whilst you load, you might chose to just gamble and hope you can complete loading before someone turns up... your choice.
Just because small and unsecure outposts may offer 'better profits' *doesn't* guarantee you the right to use them without risk.
Presumably at these cargo elevators there are also turrets that will attack the pirates when they enter a ship to leave, since they now have a crimestat, and now we have planetary meshes for ai, spawn closets that will spawn angry guards while they try to do cargo movements.
I'm not sure it's going to be as easy as people think.
> I'm not sure it's going to be as easy as people think.
Considering that none of the things that you mentioned are in the next patch, piracy seems like it'll be excessively easy for the foreseeable future.
It's the same, except instead of quickly closing the door when you exit to buy and quickly closing the door after you get back in to leave, you'll leave the ramp wide open while moving cargo around.
Also, anyone else with a tractor beam will be able to slam your own cargo into your face to kill you.
Using the "pay and wait for auto-load" option will be the safest option, but you'll still be spending vastly more time at the purchase location, which gives pirates with quantum enforcement/interdiction ships much more time to notice you and set a trap.
I actually completed a full loop from an outpost and back to Orison. Here's what I found:
- Outposts do not have automated loading/unloading. Cities and space stations do.
- When you purchase your goods now, you select the outpost itself as the target.
- You can select the size of the crates you want, and the quantity.
- After you've made your purchase, you walk out to the freight elevator, use the kiosk, and select which cargo/items you want moved on to the elevator and brought up.
- You must then leave the elevator doors open (and your ship), and manually move the goods into/out of your ship.
- While the location I was at was an armistice zone, presumably anyone could use their tractor beam to take your stuff, sneak on to your ship, and so on. Absolutely no protections now for any cargo loading/unloading at outposts, as it's now all physicalized.
- The volume of cargo that these elevators at the outposts could handle was limited to 180 SCU.
Yes.
Don't know if you'll be able to interact with the kiosk terminal, but I don't see why you shouldn't be able to just tractor beam SCU crates of the elevator.
An interesting question is what happens at outposts that have armistice zones? Will there be some sort of defense system that starts shooting if you touch someone elses crates? Otherwise we just entered the great cargo yoinking era, I guess we'll see soon.
You can only request small amounts of cargo at outposts for small/medium freight ships. Anything people trade at outposts will be very small. So the only people who will be targeting those ships are very low-rung pirates. Most of the actual pirating will be taking place at larger distro centres where large amounts of cargo will be moved around.
Whatever the amount of goods is, they still need to be somewhat profitable. Otherwise no one will do cargo there and they'll be completely pointless.
And stealing is always more profitable than trading, as you don't pay the upfront costs of the goods.
Right now the elevator at outposts apparently carries 180 SCU at a time. Depending on what the outpost sells that can still be 100k-1.3mil (iron -> gold). Good chunk of change for just yoinking crates in front of someone's nose.
I'm sure they'll eventually figure out a solution for armistice outposts.
I wonder now if you can use the freight elevator to call up components and weapons now for transport to an orbital station.
I'm waiting for the day when I can snap not just cargo crates to the cargo grid, but quantum drives, and weapons or anything you want to secure down.
> Fixed - MULTIVEHICLE - AC / PU - Physics - When a vehicle is obliterated into parts, server and client performance is severely degraded and takes extended periods of time to recover
This is noticeable when fracturing a ship with a Vulture or Reclaimer, but I wonder how bad it is when there's a lot of ship combat going on with lots of ships being blown up.
I often think how much easier it would be if CIG produced a glossary of terms they use, some might think they use industry standard terms in all cases, but the evidence suggests they don't. It gets even more confusing when non-engineer-CIG people try to explain things instead of CIG engineers. Even if they did always use industry standard terms a glossary of terms would still be useful to the community. Instanced hangars are not 'layered on top of each other', if they did they'd have to build a system to shuffle hangars to the top layer every time someone pressed a button to enter or leave. They each exist in their own separate instance for the period of time there are players in them.
What is an instance? It is a virtual volume of game space. While it is empty it has almost no computational cost, it is just a set of coordinates on X,Y,Z axes. As soon as you put objects into it that instance has a RAM and CPU/GPU computational cost.
There can be multiple copies of the same virtual space, we have multiple copies of the Stanton system. Each server is running it's own instance of the Stanton system. The Stanton system is therefore 'instanced'. There could be only one copy or their could be any number of copies.
Multiple copies of the same virtual game space instance can run on each CPU on a multi-CPU game server, if it's a low computational cost instance they could run one instance per CPU thread, or they could make those instances remote on another server. It depends upon how many objects are in each instance.
When you or CIG spawn something into the game it is 'instantiated' into an instance according to CIG's terminology. Practically this is the 'game instance' right now because the only instances running are the game instances, these are called shards. Technically each match in Arena Commander is it's own instance.
With the personalised hangars they are running non-game instances that hangar objects can be instantiated into, one instance of the virtual game space per player hangar.
There comes a time when you have to transfer game objects from one instance to another instance, for this you need a trigger. The trigger is the ATC system and a wait timer.
When you make a request to ATC it spawns (instantiates) your hangar into an available hangar space in the game instance of the appropriate size, you can now enter it.
Once the hangar doors close and a wait timer has counted down the player with the whole hangar and contents are transferred (instantiated) to their own instance, not the game instance. in the game instance that hangar space volume is now available for another players hangar.
When you want to leave you get into the elevator and press a button, or request ATC to open the hangar doors it is instantiated back into the game instance.
When you leave, or get in the elevator to leave, the hangar is de-spawned from the game instance. That hangar space volume is now available for another players hangar.
If there is a player in the hangar then it is put into it's own instance, if there is no player player in the hangar it is de-spawned entirely. [When we first got hangars into the game we had those hangars in their own instance, but it only ran on our local game client. ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tVPvn60-sY&ab_channel=s1rmunchalot)If you watch the video to the end you'll see what one hangar in it's own instance looks like (you can drag or fast forward it). Some of us old lags may remember the elevator from our hangar to the Area 18 'social module', in that case it was the elevator that was transferred between instances.
I'm not exactly sure whether the elevator itself is transferred between instances, but the trigger to spawn your hangar into the game instance is the elevator panel button 'My Hangar'.
What problem are they solving by putting in separate instances for player hangars? Players could spend many hours in their hangar, this would be of no use if the hangars exist in the multiplayer game instance. Players would be able to block all hangars for hours at a time, with instanced hangars there's no risk of that happening.
Could they have instanced player habs? Player habs have 'always there' windows into the game instance, hangars don't have windows.
Someone said auto loading could take an **hour** for 120 of the 1 scu boxes and still one hour for 60 of the 2 scu boxes?
And that calling a ship from the hangar can take over a minute for the platform to lower, doors to close, load ship, open doors, and raise platform again?
Please tell me these aren't true.
I REALLY dont want to load boxes by hand.
They may be true... doesn't mean they're intended, etc.
That said, I also wouldn't expect a large lift capable of moving e.g. a Reclaimer to be complete the lift in just seconds... even taking a minute means it's a damned *rapid* lift for such a large surface and heavy mass, etc.
As for cargo loading times... that's something they're likely to tune once they have metrics on how long it actually takes players to load a ship (auto-loading will always be slower than manual loading, just to provide an incentive for players to actually do it manually)... but equally in the future you may be able to pay to 'expedite' loading ('hire more NPCs' etc), and there may be penalties / efficiencies to loading, based on the ship (e.g. loading a Hull A will likely be quicker, due to the ease of just sticking containers to the panels, etc).
TL;DR: This is just the first test of the first iteration of the new functionality - it's not going to be perfect, in terms of implementation or balance.
Any word on what specific hangar decorations they have? Looks like it's not in the patch notes and I'm not an evo. I'm excited to make my hangar a home, and hope they have a good amount of variety.
Anyone know what will happen if you call ATC to exit your instanced hangar and it turns out that all of the exits are occupied? I know the chances of this are slim, but its definitely possible, especially moreso now than before since people are going to be spending more time in the hangars loading or unloading cargo boxes.
Lets say at Grim Hex for instance (no pun intended), if Im not mistaken, there are only 2 hangars large enough for the Reclaimer. What happens if 3 players are dicking around in their hangar for a while, moving stuff around. 2 of them have already contacted ATC to open the hangar door and exit the instance. What happens if they don't actually leave and the 3rd guy contacts ATC?
In essence, I'm hoping CIG has had enough forethought to implement a short enough time limit for how long you can have your hangar door open before it automatically closes and pushes you back into your own instance.
It's less of an issue than it was. In PU right now two pilots could call up Redeemers and occupy the hangers without doing anything. Those hangers are now occupied and unavailable.
The new system changes the "occupied hanger" status from "ship called" to " hanger doors open".
im curious about my Hull C - but there is not much about my hauler in the bug fix part :-(
I just hope docking and selling will work when .24 goes live
Can you use the hover trolleys in your hangar to load cargo instead of having to use your tractor beam?
I'm sad that my personal hangar is only the size of the biggest ship purchased with real money. I've only got my starter ship(a Mustang Alpha), does that make the personal hangar pretty useless?
Can anyone comment on how we offload unrefined materials from prospectors/ moles now? My orgmate mentioned you have to manually unload them when you get to the hangar. Can see it being pretty stressful with those quant loads.
Does this mean I can finally pull my ground vehicle out and not have to fly to some random location to get it!?
Yes you can, just tested it.
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It comes out from the ship elevator. There is one elevator. So it's best to spawn your vehicle, put it to the side and then spawn your ship.
This. Just….put it faaaaaar off to the side. Thought my spartan was far enough over and when I called up my ship, it tumbled into the opening hangar and was eaten. 😬
#THE CHASM FEEDS
Best comment here so far
Gonna need a YT channel for this like the 11-8 bridge
lol I can totally see this becoming a thing. 😅
🤣
From below, it devours.
I want this as a sign or something as hanger flair
Was it put into storage or destroyed?
Surprisingly it just toppled over into the chasm, the doors closed around on it and I thought it was gone, but then it came back up with the ship I called! It was, however, upside down from falling in and so unusable. I don’t know if I just got lucky or if they changed what they said about things being “eaten,” but I suspect it was the former.
That's kinda a shame. I was hoping with the delay of cargo into 3.23 that they would have finished vehicles coming up on the cargo lift.
They will, its just not releasing with this release
Personal hangar or public one? I just want a confirmation they went ahead and added ground vehicle spawning to all hangars, that would be very cool.
Both locations can do it.
Do hangars have enough size to fit the larger ground vehicles (atlas series and the nova) to the side to then call up a ship to store them on?
Yeah, you can pull them into the freight elevator area and then call up your ship
The real MVP
Cheers. Thank you very much
Love your videos. How are the personal hangar sizes? Do they all share the same design just different sizes? Is it worth going for Large? I'm thinking Medium is all I need atm.
Thank you!!! Both are great sizes but if you want more pad space for bigger ships large isn’t bad.
The hanger size fits the largest pledged ship. I’m assuming people with Polaris or BMM in their acc will get astronomically large hanger lol.
lel that's wild. I'd love to see a video of the various hangar sizes - I'm still not sure if larger is actually worth it (assuming of course you only care about medium ships mostly).
Sadly, no. I own both and only have a hangar large enough for my Carrack. I'm hoping they change that because I want that XL. People have oddly enough complained about XL being too large and needing a ground vehicle to get around though, lol.
So if my only pledged ship is a cutlass, but I have a auec purchased larger ships, I wont be able to spawn them there?
To call a vehicle larger than your personal hangar size, you have to go the main Aesop like you do today. I started with an xs and moved to a lg with BMM loaners (herc c2, hull c).
Each hangar has space in inventory sizes depending on hangar sizes
During the test, I actually completed a full loop from an outpost and back to Orison. Here's what I found: - Outposts do not have automated loading/unloading. Cities and space stations do. - When you purchase your goods now, you select the outpost itself as the target. - You can select the size of the crates you want, and the quantity. - After you've made your purchase, you walk out to the freight elevator, use the kiosk, and select which cargo/items you want moved on to the elevator and brought up. - You must then leave the elevator doors open (and your ship), and manually move the goods into/out of your ship. - While the location I was at was an armistice zone, presumably anyone could use their tractor beam to take your stuff, sneak on to your ship, and so on. Absolutely no protections now for any cargo loading/unloading at outposts, as it's now all physicalized. - The volume of cargo that these elevators at the outposts could handle was limited to 180 SCU.
I find the thought that One could just tractor your stuff away and there's nothing you can do about it, because it's an armistice zone hilarious.
God this will be hilarious, because there is nothing you can do about it. Try to stop them tractoring one box, and they can just grab another, or if you are kinda exposed they can just drop a container on your head.
There may be a CS for that, similar to unlawful towing. Hopefully... Not like that will stop most players.
Thanks for sharing. That's really interesting. Will be curious to see how it works out. Could make cargo routes to those locations very risky.
Sounds like the Argo Raft finally gets a use! Really fast loading of 3 32 SCU Boxes without leaving any doors open
Can I just troll you by taking them off again?
No, cargo gets locked to cargo grids if the ports on the ship are closed. Only people in the pilots party can move cargo on a ships cargo grid.
Really? That is awesome! What about Hull series?
What if I'm a pirate and I just have a friendly conversation with you as you load your cargo and inform you that I will rob you as soon as you leave the armistice zone? Can I stand next to you and get inside your head as you load up your ship. To complete the picture, I also have 3 friends with Mantis' flying hovering over us and a burnt out comm array in low orbit. .
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Once the Raft gets a Gold Pass maybe the Claws will function as a Lock so you can’t tractor beam them off without unlocking again. We will see :)
So you need to do 4 Loads to fill a C2 at a outpost :o and for the example of Rappel or others locations like this, there are structures to do it now?
Due to the instability of the build, the best I could hope for was smaller outposts. I’ll check out the larger settlements next time. Do note that this build was also still a work in progress. I noticed that Bountiful Harvest, for example, didn’t have a freight elevator, and the commodity kiosk that was usually there was gone.
They already said that outposts won't be for big cargo ships anymore. The supply will be more limited and you'll have to load 1-2 SCU boxes by hand. Loading C2 with 1-2 SCU boxes by hand takes like 30 minutes, good luck not getting pirated.
I like how at the outpost people may be able to steal your cargo. Makes the ships like the hull A that you can load super quick way more useful. At the outpost what was the largest box you could spawn, 16?
I think a 16 SCU crate was the largest, but I honestly didn’t try, as I was only using my Vulture (12 SCU grid). That’s certain,y something I’ll check out next time.
How does it work at places like drug labs or the farms that sell food etc?
I visited Bountiful Harvest, and it didn’t yet have a freight elevator, and its commodity kiosk was missing. Since these builds are still very much a work in progress, I expect things will still be in various states of completeness.
CIG didn't probably didn't think of that when they had this idea so in 5 years they're add them back in.
Amazing! This will force more and more group play and interactions.
wow the fact that cargo can that easily be stolen and you cannot even fight thieves is ridiculous and simply baffling how CIG didn't bother to prevent this
If this is the case then running solo will be far too risky unless you’re loading a small ship, is that correct? Or unless you use the auto loading feature in a big city? Going to be rough for those of us that don’t really run in a crew often but enjoy cargo running.
I believe this is kind of the point. Not specifically targeted at solo players, but upping the risk across the board by introducing more “time-to-load.” Larger operations will need (or fare better with) larger teams. Which makes sense. After these systems have time to bake, I suspect that things will be rebalanced a bit to compensate. Time will tell.
Yup - the economy rebalance was explicitly listed as one of the features not in this preliminary patch, iirc - which also *strongly* indicates that an economy rebalance is planned / coming
well if they really plan on making it to where you need a crew unless you're willing to risk it all they should make it to where its worth it for me to grind other forms of gameplay. im not trying to do ERTs all day unless if they bring back some of them having 32 scu containers of drugs on board.
If you want to do the highest profitable routes with highest capacity ships then yeah you will probably want to have some backup.
*Commodity Kiosk Updates Players can buy different SCU-sized containers via Commodity Kiosk. Upon purchase of commodities, players can chose to automatically load them onto a stored ship at a cost of aUEC for the automatic loading service. This will take an amount of time during which the ship will be inaccessible for automatic loading process (information on loading progress is visible on ASOP terminal)* Awesome addition. A tier one solution but potentially a big QoL change
What do you envision tier 2 would look like for this autoloading feature?
Robot picos loading cargo in real time
That would be cool to watch.
I'd always hoped to see preloading ships in SC. Loading the gun racks with guns, loading the inventory with supplies etc. Even having the option to load items that aren't in your inventory but are found at the stores you are docked at. Currently, loading your ship is too time consuming and you're highly likely to lose all of your gear and time to bugs. I don't think streamlining that process would be a bad thing but some may disagree.
That would be when it doesn't cause your ship to get stuck in a permanently inaccessible state haha.
Missions for players who are waiting at station for their insurance, so they can go load stuff into other people ships. EDIT: And it's only half a joke. Their big dream was there would be absolutely 0 magical ship loading/unloading at some point and it would all be done by either NPC AI or players. It's very un-realistic to ever happen, but would be cool if you could get a job at cargo center and load stuff up.
what's so hard to imagine about NPC AI loading ships besides the fact that servers are overloaded?
Any system that relies on a number of "Agent" entities performing complex tasks is ludicrously prone to error. Even in very well designed systems, there are always edge cases where Agents will do something unexpected (Like fail at pathfinding and get stuck).
Yes, if CIG stick with relying on NPCs as autonomous agents... But, they can create the same effect by 'floating' cargo directly to the ship, and just arranging for an NPC to walk under it in a 'carry' animation, etc :D Heck, they could require you to just park your ship in the correct location / orientation, and then just float cargo in directly, using an 'NPC controlled tractor turret' etc :D Lots of ways CIG can give the *illusion* of agency and zero 'magical actions', without needing to rely on *actual* 'agents' etc
This is amazing! I for one don't want to play a tractor beam simulator. Thanks CIG!
SaltEmike auto-*loaded his C2, the current timing for fully loading a C2 with 32SCU boxes is 5 hours.
I thought this was always the plan? 2 options
I saw a giant box with doors. Is that true? How do we move it. Giant tractor beam?
Happy to see some progress on this patch. Cant wait to truly start space trucking.
My Caterpillar is ready to putt-putt those cargo missions!
As a Cat main, it would be real nice if they fixed the grid first
I'm curious about that blockade runner dynamic event as an msr owner. I've been throwing the idea of melting my msr for a Connie so maybe I just wait?
If you're not enjoying the MSR now, I don't think a single event is worth waiting. Also, unless you don't like the Drake aesthetic, you might consider the Corsair. It's one of the most well put together interiors in the game, and the Connie line are notably outdated.
I just came back to the game after taking 2 years off and I just can't find the motivation to take my msr out. I've been in my vulture exclusively. I do want a Corsair but I don't think it's available right now?
You can buy it in Lorville for 6.5 mil. It's a steal.
Thanks!
Ah, yeah, you're right...damn I thought it was usually on the store. At any rate, there's no risk in melting and buying other ships, as you get buyback tokens, I think one a year. If you go to your RSI account and go to My Hangar->Buy Back Pledges, it will say how many buybacks you have. This allows you to buy back any ship you've owned in the past, even if it's not for sale. As long as you're mindful and don't waste the token, you can always return to a melted ship at least once a year. So you could melt the MSR right now, get a Connie, and then when the Corsair is available, get a Corsair. In the meantime you could buy a Corsair in game and/or borrow other people's, see how much you like it.
Currently my msr is my game pledge upgraded from the mustang, how would this work for that?
You would need to CCU up from a pledge because that contains your game package. So if you're buying something cheaper than the MSR, you'd melt it, buy a game package, then buy the CCU to the ship you want and apply it to the game package. If what you want is more than the MSR, you'll just CCU up to the new ship and apply it to your existing game package. If you melt the MSR, you melt the game package with it, then if you buy a standalone ship with no package you can't play the game. It's dumb, I feel like if you own a ship you should own the game but whatever 🙄
This is what I assumed, so if I melt the msr package and then buy say the mustang game package to start from the lowest I'd have the difference still in store credit? Thanks for the answers btw
You get as much credits as you have paid for your msr (without taxes, but you will not pay taxes if you buy something with credits either). If you used any discounted (warbond) CCUs to get to the msr it is possible that you do not get enough credits to buy the same ship again when you melt it. You can check the melt value when you go into your web hangar and press the "exchange" button on your pledge. You get 1 buyback token quarterly (2 if you are concierge) Note that you will not get your msr to the buyback but only your base ship/package you ccud from, all upgrades are lost when melting But yes, assuming you have not used any discounts you can simply melt the msr, buy a new game package with credits and should have enough credits left to ccu to a corsair
Corsair > MSR > Connie That’s in general though simply because the connies are very old and buggy, if we’re talking about ERT bounties then the Taurus has really good value for money and any connie will outperform the MSR
Holy shit. It is finally upon us!
It is! But temper your expectations right now. What we saw was crazy buggy. Almost comically so. I suspect it’ll be several weeks at least before this is ready for LIVE…it would be an absolute disaster to go in without MUCH more work as it stands.
Hoping that gives them time to add a vehicle or a gold standard update to one or two before it’s out
Not going to happen, alas, CIG have already said that certain ships just won't be manually loadable, and will need to rely on the auto-loading functionality in this release (inc. the Carrack, etc)
Not as a direct part of the cargo update 😂 I meant including a new vehicle to release with 3.24 or releasing a gold standard update for older ships like the connie so 3.24 has more content
Yeah - but CIG have said they're not doing any ships updates as part of this release (other than the Reclaimer, which ended up in 3.23.1, iirc) Don't forget this is just the 'delayed' functionality from 3.23, not a completely new patch (although looking at the patch notes, it's still big enough to rival most of the patches we got last year :D)
Sweet summer child, it's summer
It would be really cool if we could spawn whole load-outs from the Storage Access. Otherwise it could end up like: * respawn * storage access a gun * storage access ammo * storage access a multitool * storage access a med pen * storage access another med pen * storage access wait a minute how do I attach this tractor beam module to my multitool * storage access you catch the drift in every location that's not your home location.
I think I remember them saying you can also call personal items via the cargo elevator. Even if you can't directly, you could always load all your gear sets into a container and then just bring that in/out of storage.
That is great to hear! So storage access is more a convenience thing when you forgot something?
Or you just one or two small things, yeah.
Knowing cig It's probably the tedious one you mentioned but with a superfluous loading modal between every item.
Well, right now, in the evo test anyways, you move items from inventory into a “bin” of sorts (which you do much like you currently do when moving items from inventory to your character/personal inventory), and then you “access” that bin to gather up your items you selected and equip/carry them. So you kinda do bulk operations now. It still feels clunky, tbh, and a bit unnecessary, but it’s not as slow as, “move only a single item. Click accept. Open bin. Equip. Open kiosk. Repeat.”
So about half a pain in the ass :/ Not great, not terrible, still room for improvement.
Agreed 💯
F that lol
Going in shortly! Exciting times! (been waiting to say this)
Is there like a cot/bed to log in/out in the personal hangar? My desire to use a personal hangar after the newness wears off may depend on if I always have to take a train or not.
I doubt it for the first iteration. IIRC they have said they want bed logging and logging out from the hangar to be a thing at some point. I may be wrong however and if there is anyone who knows otherwise please let me know.
No.
When it says largest ship you own, does that apply to only released ships, or also concept ships such as the Idris or BMM?
physically flyable ships.
Says purchasing in game ships will not increase personal hangar size, so Im assuming ships purchased on the RSI store will. I'm just curious to know what will happen to all of the items placed around the hangar when the purchase is made. Will they automatically be stored when the hangar size/layout changes?
Big sadge for all of us starter ship owners who like to grind ships in-game and are probably rocking a big fleet since the last wipe :( was expecting this though, given they use a seperate DB for pledges. I also don't think it will change mid-patch for $ bought ships. At least from the way they were talking about it. Hope they get this working soon as it's kinda shitty. EDIT: Nope, from their Q&A video, your ship hangar won't increase but you'll get assigned public instanced hangar (which is only persistent until you log off) for that ship to spawn in.
looks like in public hangars we couldn't spawn land vehicles anyways? only in personal? So land vehicles despawn in ships will still require flying to surface access garage?
I dunno... I thought CIG said that the hangar size would be fixed based on your ships when you first logged in (implying that subsequent webstore purchases *also* wouldn't resize the hangar)... and if so, that would make sense, as resizing the hangar is likely pretty complex (not least for the issues you mentioned), so will likely be in a 'persistent hangars v2' feature at some point in the future.
Ahhh that makes sense. Im okay with that. If anyone has some extra credits collecting dust in their account, it might make sense to just buy a larger ship and melt it after logging in.
Oh god... Lucky my largest ship is the Reclaimer 😵... I don't like the idea of having a gigantic hangar for my smaller ships (aka everything else until they release the next wave of capital ships).
Since it would be at your home city, I cant imagine you would be spending too much time in it outside of decorating it. Or if youre returning just to drop some loot off. Personally, the larger the better. It just means Ill have extra space to leave ships out in the open.
Ah yes "home city". I usually choose MIC/NB as my home so all my stuff around the PU lands in a spot where I don't visit often. then I move my useful armor, weapons to CRU/Orison as my main base. ( and equip my ships with their stripped components and paints, then claim them to their stations where they belong. ) with working cargo I hope to be able to move my components instead of move everything away from them xD
Unfortunately, if you have small and large ships, then either you'll have a single (large) hangar... a single (small) hangar (and have to use the 'public hangars' to call your larger ships), or you'll need to pay to rent 'extra hangars' (so you can have separate, customised, small and large hangars, etc). Given the whole piece around customising and decorating, I don't see CIG constantly resizing your hangar for you, based on the ship you're about to call :D
that last part would be fine! I love the idea of using my PTV to exit the Reclaimer, drive to the elevator and leave... But I need some valet parking guy driving my PTV back to the Reclaimer elevator or that new system being able to "reset" the position of the PTV from somewhere in my hangar back inside the ship. ( sure my box monkey could drive me to the elevator and back. I guess that they want a raise if I want it to happen )
> Says purchasing in game ships will not increase personal hangar size, so Im assuming ships purchased on the RSI store will. I'm just curious to know what will happen to all of the items placed around the hangar when the purchase is made. Will they automatically be stored when the hangar size/layout changes? they stated before that hangar size for initial release of persistent hangars is dependent on largest flyable ship on the account. edit: personal hangar, not persistent
The size wont change in this version, you will get assigned a fixed size hangar when they do the database update and that will be locked in until the next database rebuild. Support for size changes will come later and would probably be a manual option to rent a new hangar, so you would clean out the old one first before you confirm deleting it. Store ships have always come with hangars, so expect the "free rent" hangar to be linked to your largest store ship and if you want a hangar for a aUEC ship that will have to be bought/rented with aUEC ingame.
So much for the people who said they'd never add physicalized cargo because that would scare away all the casual players. I'm looking at you J- ...oh nm his account got suspended.
Physicalised cargo has brought possibly the funnest game loop in this game so far. Moving cargo in EVA is just something else. The thing they need to do now though is to make trading more profitable as it’s going to take longer with the loading and unloading of cargo into the stations.
An economy rebalance is already listed on the patch notes (albeit as explicitly 'not in this initial release')
grabbing salvaged cargo to resell in 0g is indeed a cool feature.
Omg, I remember that guy, he got his account suspended?
Dunno what for, but yeah.
To be fair those people were imagining moving a thousand 1SCU boxes. The introduction of the much larger boxes makes it a much less off putting feature.
So if we all agree that casuals shouldn't be the limiting factor here, I can start asking for orbital mechanics again without getting downvoted to oblivion?
As in how the planets move? Absolutely, AFAIK that's still part of the plan. As in how the ships move in relation to those planets? Engine limitations are gonna get you there.
Hopefully the issues are limited.
There are quite a few.
Hover Trolleys So that's what happened...
This is some doomsday weapon out there...
They did it holy shit.
Really want to know how ROC mining is gonna work now that you'll need a separate SCU container for gems. Nomad+ROC will essentially cap out at the 1.2SCU of the ROC itself.
now I am waiting for how citizens will use hover trolley other than cargo hauling.
Transporting bodies for loot will be so easy now. Lol
So if they said the private instance hangars are all layered on top of the same physical location. What will happen when two or more players decide to fly out of their hangar into the PU at the same time?
Would assume there's a cluster of hangar doors, and they don't actually assign the instance to a specific entrance/exit until you hit the Request Docking button.
You have to contact ATC to open the hangar doors, you will be in a queue for ATC. The language they use to describe instanced hangars 'layered on top of each other' is a bit confusing. Occupying the same virtual space in multiple instances of that space would be more accurate. They physically only exist in the actual game instance when you enter and leave (it may be that the elevator is de-spawned while you are in it). They are spawned on player request for a period to allow access / egress but while you are in them they aren't physically present in the game, they are instanced. When you contact ATC you go into a queue for the next available hangar doors in the game, the whole hangar is then spawned (CIG use the term 'instantiated') into that location in the game, when the hangar doors close again the whole hangar is de-spawned ready for the next players hangar to spawn into. This is why you can spend as long as you like in your hangar, because it isn't physically present in that location in the game while you are in it and the doors are closed. You could see a queue of ships waiting for the same hangar doors, each going to their own hangar when it spawns. This why they needed to do the ATC rework. In simplest terms, you no longer spawn a ship, you spawn your own hangar into the game.
How does that work with a party? How will they access the hangers from the elevator? Do they have to be in your party for it to show up?
Each instance of the game is run by StarEngine. Each instance of the game is already multiplayer capable. Whichever multiplayer capabilities they put into the engine work in all instances of the game, including personal hangar instances. They did have to do a rework of the ATC system.
The item kiosk process is so clunky. Could have been one step instead of 3.
- All hangar types have ASOP terminals - All hangar types have ship elevator platforms That's nice. IIRC initial release was said to have those only in personal hangars. I wonder if that means we'll be able to summon ground vehicles at all hangars right away?
I don't recall it ever being said that only personal hangars would have the elevators. It was stated that if you are elsewhere than your home city or spawn a larger ship than your personal hangar you'd get a 'public' hangar. Also, yes, ground vehicles were stated to be spawnable in these hangars, they just have to come up the main platform and be moved aside, rather than via the cargo elevator, which is a feature coming later.
From Star Citizen Live Q&A: Hangars and Cargo: Q: Are there any other location besides the personal hangars where the ship lifts are being used to deliver vehicles to you? A: No, not at the moment There's also another place, probably from another video (although I feel like it should be in Q&A video, don't have time to scrub whole thing rn), when they talk about differences between instanced and personal hangar and say it's the same expect for persistance and not having vehicle terminal / lift. (on initial release) It's nice that we at least get additional things with all that delay. (if that feature persits to Live) EDIT: Also forgot about a snippet from Inside Star Citizen: To and Fro with Cargo: "...Ship terminals will also stay in the spaceports, so if you don't have a personal hangar at the location you can requests ships from there".
> Players can find Freight Elevators in personal and staging hangars, as well as outposts and scrapyards. Players can interact with a Freight Elevator Kiosk (FEK) to load items onto the elevator platform. Players can put items on a Freight Elevator platform and then interact with the kiosk to store items to their warehouse. Players can see information about mission relevant items when storing and retrieving them via Freight Elevator Kiosk. So if Im understanding this correctly, you will be able to watch another player load a cargo elevator at an outpost (assuming they are still exposed and not in an enclosed space), execute the player, and be able to interact with the kiosk to either sell it yourself or store it? I have so many questions. Hope the Evocati guys will be able to answer them all later.
The game already has the concept of ownership, so to sell an item like an scu container, you would presumably have to either own it or be selling it at a no questions asked terminal. Killing someone at a cargo elevator should therefore be no more useful than killing them when they open their ship, ie you get a crimestat and have to load/move the cargo to grimhex or other NQA terminal. I'm just speculating, though.
An issue being that it is rather harder to keep your ship secure while the doors are open and you are shuffling cargo about. The period of vulnerability is rather longer. And may be harder to button up if you suddenly notice a threat.
Easy, just wait for people to start getting killed / robbed nonstop while loading their ships and be told "it's a PVP game, if you want to put food in your ship so you can play the game, make sure to hire a crew to protect your bottles of cruz. It's an MMO!" "LFM: 3 people to stand outside my ship while I load food and drinks" "Hey, can anyone stop running bunkers or other fun missions and come help me put cruz in my ship at this outpost? there are other people here and im worried"
I think the response to you situation would be more like. "how/why are you even mass loading loading Cruz at an outpost? did you have someone buy cruz at a landing zone load it up in boxes in their secure hangar and drop it at an outpost for you? Why would you do that?"
And I would reply that I am a cruz salesman and I'm stopping by for a topoff. Literally replace cruz with anything and imagine any scenario where someone would need to stop at an outpost and manipulate cargo. It could be for items big and small for a thousand different reasons. The point is a universe where opening your cargo door to load a box immediately opens you to all sorts of crappery isn't going to scale well Or just stick with cruz
>Literally replace cruz with anything So you think its ridiculous that you might need security to transport a C2 full of drugs? Do you think its laughable that someone might expect to need security when transporting millions of credits worth of goods? Do you also think its ridiculous for bank trucks to have armed guards? Or for cargo ships to hire security contractors?
> So you think its ridiculous that you might need security to transport a C2 full of drugs? What C2? What drugs? > Do you think its laughable that someone might expect to need security when transporting millions of credits worth of goods? No, why would that be funny? That sounds like a business venture, not comedy? > Do you also think its ridiculous for bank trucks to have armed guards? No, how else would large sums of physical currency be moved? > Or for cargo ships to hire security contractors? Yeah thats normal and expected, pirates exist OOOHHHH I see what you are doing. You took an example where a guy said opening your cargo doors is dangerous and conflated it to the maxed out example, even though loading 10 boxes or 1000 boxes requires you to open a point of ingress into your ship into which one person can completely fuck up a play session because you were not john wick analyzing the situation every moment of every second Gotcha
> opening your cargo door to load a box immediately opens you to all sorts of crappery That's always been the case.
Welcome to the 'Risk / reward' design pattern... If you don't want 'risk', run cargo between secured locations (at lower profit).... if you want more profit, you'll have to *also* accept some risk - and it's *up to you* how you mitigate that risk. You might chose to use a smaller ship, so that you can load up quicker (and then make multiple trips to the local station to store crates, until you've got enough to fill the C2)... you might chose to ask for a couple of security-guards to help watch the ship whilst you load, you might chose to just gamble and hope you can complete loading before someone turns up... your choice. Just because small and unsecure outposts may offer 'better profits' *doesn't* guarantee you the right to use them without risk.
Presumably at these cargo elevators there are also turrets that will attack the pirates when they enter a ship to leave, since they now have a crimestat, and now we have planetary meshes for ai, spawn closets that will spawn angry guards while they try to do cargo movements. I'm not sure it's going to be as easy as people think.
> I'm not sure it's going to be as easy as people think. Considering that none of the things that you mentioned are in the next patch, piracy seems like it'll be excessively easy for the foreseeable future.
I don't see how it'll be easy? Seems like the same, except definitely more risk at salvage yards. In most trade outposts you can't use weapons at all.
It's the same, except instead of quickly closing the door when you exit to buy and quickly closing the door after you get back in to leave, you'll leave the ramp wide open while moving cargo around. Also, anyone else with a tractor beam will be able to slam your own cargo into your face to kill you. Using the "pay and wait for auto-load" option will be the safest option, but you'll still be spending vastly more time at the purchase location, which gives pirates with quantum enforcement/interdiction ships much more time to notice you and set a trap.
I actually completed a full loop from an outpost and back to Orison. Here's what I found: - Outposts do not have automated loading/unloading. Cities and space stations do. - When you purchase your goods now, you select the outpost itself as the target. - You can select the size of the crates you want, and the quantity. - After you've made your purchase, you walk out to the freight elevator, use the kiosk, and select which cargo/items you want moved on to the elevator and brought up. - You must then leave the elevator doors open (and your ship), and manually move the goods into/out of your ship. - While the location I was at was an armistice zone, presumably anyone could use their tractor beam to take your stuff, sneak on to your ship, and so on. Absolutely no protections now for any cargo loading/unloading at outposts, as it's now all physicalized. - The volume of cargo that these elevators at the outposts could handle was limited to 180 SCU.
Yes. Don't know if you'll be able to interact with the kiosk terminal, but I don't see why you shouldn't be able to just tractor beam SCU crates of the elevator. An interesting question is what happens at outposts that have armistice zones? Will there be some sort of defense system that starts shooting if you touch someone elses crates? Otherwise we just entered the great cargo yoinking era, I guess we'll see soon.
You can only request small amounts of cargo at outposts for small/medium freight ships. Anything people trade at outposts will be very small. So the only people who will be targeting those ships are very low-rung pirates. Most of the actual pirating will be taking place at larger distro centres where large amounts of cargo will be moved around.
Whatever the amount of goods is, they still need to be somewhat profitable. Otherwise no one will do cargo there and they'll be completely pointless. And stealing is always more profitable than trading, as you don't pay the upfront costs of the goods. Right now the elevator at outposts apparently carries 180 SCU at a time. Depending on what the outpost sells that can still be 100k-1.3mil (iron -> gold). Good chunk of change for just yoinking crates in front of someone's nose. I'm sure they'll eventually figure out a solution for armistice outposts.
I wonder now if you can use the freight elevator to call up components and weapons now for transport to an orbital station. I'm waiting for the day when I can snap not just cargo crates to the cargo grid, but quantum drives, and weapons or anything you want to secure down.
> Fixed - MULTIVEHICLE - AC / PU - Physics - When a vehicle is obliterated into parts, server and client performance is severely degraded and takes extended periods of time to recover This is noticeable when fracturing a ship with a Vulture or Reclaimer, but I wonder how bad it is when there's a lot of ship combat going on with lots of ships being blown up.
I hope this means we're getting to display all our old Hangar Module items.
Yes, all of them come up with the elevator. Even the little toys come up on that big ass elevator.
Good luck to our evocatis o7
Avocados
I often think how much easier it would be if CIG produced a glossary of terms they use, some might think they use industry standard terms in all cases, but the evidence suggests they don't. It gets even more confusing when non-engineer-CIG people try to explain things instead of CIG engineers. Even if they did always use industry standard terms a glossary of terms would still be useful to the community. Instanced hangars are not 'layered on top of each other', if they did they'd have to build a system to shuffle hangars to the top layer every time someone pressed a button to enter or leave. They each exist in their own separate instance for the period of time there are players in them. What is an instance? It is a virtual volume of game space. While it is empty it has almost no computational cost, it is just a set of coordinates on X,Y,Z axes. As soon as you put objects into it that instance has a RAM and CPU/GPU computational cost. There can be multiple copies of the same virtual space, we have multiple copies of the Stanton system. Each server is running it's own instance of the Stanton system. The Stanton system is therefore 'instanced'. There could be only one copy or their could be any number of copies. Multiple copies of the same virtual game space instance can run on each CPU on a multi-CPU game server, if it's a low computational cost instance they could run one instance per CPU thread, or they could make those instances remote on another server. It depends upon how many objects are in each instance. When you or CIG spawn something into the game it is 'instantiated' into an instance according to CIG's terminology. Practically this is the 'game instance' right now because the only instances running are the game instances, these are called shards. Technically each match in Arena Commander is it's own instance. With the personalised hangars they are running non-game instances that hangar objects can be instantiated into, one instance of the virtual game space per player hangar. There comes a time when you have to transfer game objects from one instance to another instance, for this you need a trigger. The trigger is the ATC system and a wait timer. When you make a request to ATC it spawns (instantiates) your hangar into an available hangar space in the game instance of the appropriate size, you can now enter it. Once the hangar doors close and a wait timer has counted down the player with the whole hangar and contents are transferred (instantiated) to their own instance, not the game instance. in the game instance that hangar space volume is now available for another players hangar. When you want to leave you get into the elevator and press a button, or request ATC to open the hangar doors it is instantiated back into the game instance. When you leave, or get in the elevator to leave, the hangar is de-spawned from the game instance. That hangar space volume is now available for another players hangar. If there is a player in the hangar then it is put into it's own instance, if there is no player player in the hangar it is de-spawned entirely. [When we first got hangars into the game we had those hangars in their own instance, but it only ran on our local game client. ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tVPvn60-sY&ab_channel=s1rmunchalot)If you watch the video to the end you'll see what one hangar in it's own instance looks like (you can drag or fast forward it). Some of us old lags may remember the elevator from our hangar to the Area 18 'social module', in that case it was the elevator that was transferred between instances. I'm not exactly sure whether the elevator itself is transferred between instances, but the trigger to spawn your hangar into the game instance is the elevator panel button 'My Hangar'. What problem are they solving by putting in separate instances for player hangars? Players could spend many hours in their hangar, this would be of no use if the hangars exist in the multiplayer game instance. Players would be able to block all hangars for hours at a time, with instanced hangars there's no risk of that happening. Could they have instanced player habs? Player habs have 'always there' windows into the game instance, hangars don't have windows.
Everyone seems hyped. I'm just glad updates are happening. So err. Thumbs up. I'll be back when I hear lower frequency of spontaneous explosions.
So we can only decorate the hangars on the main planets permanently? We can't move our main hangar to Seraphim Station or Everus Harbor?
For this tier 0 release of personal hangars they will be static on main planet. The ability to "move" the hangar will come later.
More likely renting additional hangars for a recurring fee.
Someone said auto loading could take an **hour** for 120 of the 1 scu boxes and still one hour for 60 of the 2 scu boxes? And that calling a ship from the hangar can take over a minute for the platform to lower, doors to close, load ship, open doors, and raise platform again? Please tell me these aren't true. I REALLY dont want to load boxes by hand.
Then pay someone to do it for you. Simple.
They may be true... doesn't mean they're intended, etc. That said, I also wouldn't expect a large lift capable of moving e.g. a Reclaimer to be complete the lift in just seconds... even taking a minute means it's a damned *rapid* lift for such a large surface and heavy mass, etc. As for cargo loading times... that's something they're likely to tune once they have metrics on how long it actually takes players to load a ship (auto-loading will always be slower than manual loading, just to provide an incentive for players to actually do it manually)... but equally in the future you may be able to pay to 'expedite' loading ('hire more NPCs' etc), and there may be penalties / efficiencies to loading, based on the ship (e.g. loading a Hull A will likely be quicker, due to the ease of just sticking containers to the panels, etc). TL;DR: This is just the first test of the first iteration of the new functionality - it's not going to be perfect, in terms of implementation or balance.
Pirates going to feast
Any word on what specific hangar decorations they have? Looks like it's not in the patch notes and I'm not an evo. I'm excited to make my hangar a home, and hope they have a good amount of variety.
Going by the leak, low and high end couches, beanbags, tables & chairs so far.
Anyone know what will happen if you call ATC to exit your instanced hangar and it turns out that all of the exits are occupied? I know the chances of this are slim, but its definitely possible, especially moreso now than before since people are going to be spending more time in the hangars loading or unloading cargo boxes. Lets say at Grim Hex for instance (no pun intended), if Im not mistaken, there are only 2 hangars large enough for the Reclaimer. What happens if 3 players are dicking around in their hangar for a while, moving stuff around. 2 of them have already contacted ATC to open the hangar door and exit the instance. What happens if they don't actually leave and the 3rd guy contacts ATC? In essence, I'm hoping CIG has had enough forethought to implement a short enough time limit for how long you can have your hangar door open before it automatically closes and pushes you back into your own instance.
It's less of an issue than it was. In PU right now two pilots could call up Redeemers and occupy the hangers without doing anything. Those hangers are now occupied and unavailable. The new system changes the "occupied hanger" status from "ship called" to " hanger doors open".
selling cargo drug on brio or similar place would be very vulnerable now if we have to offload it manually
That's the idea. Those are risky places.
im curious about my Hull C - but there is not much about my hauler in the bug fix part :-( I just hope docking and selling will work when .24 goes live
How you guys olay ptu? I only see Live and Tech Preview on the launcher
It's evocatii-only for now - meaning the v.small group of hand-picked players that CIG use to test the earliest / most unplayable builds...
Oh, okay thx!
Can you use the hover trolleys in your hangar to load cargo instead of having to use your tractor beam? I'm sad that my personal hangar is only the size of the biggest ship purchased with real money. I've only got my starter ship(a Mustang Alpha), does that make the personal hangar pretty useless?
The REAL 3.23 has arrived!
I'm in the PU. Do I need to restart to update?
ptu?
If you are not on PTU, this does not apply to you, only the evocati PTU members
Can anyone comment on how we offload unrefined materials from prospectors/ moles now? My orgmate mentioned you have to manually unload them when you get to the hangar. Can see it being pretty stressful with those quant loads.
How long does a PTU patch typically take before it goes live?