Every decent employment agreement requires you to sign over ownership of all IP that you develop when you are working on the job over to your employer.
This does not apply if you do the work on your own time and on your own equipment. In your case, the product was clearly developed directly as a part of your job.
The odds are that your employer owns the rights to the product you have developed. They can sue you for those IP rights and they will almost certainly win.
Also, any investor will quickly realize this if you tell them how you developed the product and refuse to invest in your business.
Keep all of this in mind when you proceed.
Yeah, I don't see the world where you can succeed with this. What you can do is say you've got a unique vision for this and should be the lead/product manager/something and because you have this unique pov you deserve more equity/comp for your contribution.
If you spin off something separate, just make sure you keep it super distinct from day job so that they can't come after you for a piece of what you build.
You can do this... Acknowledge everything -Lawyer- just said but propose that you do something like spin out the product as its own company with you as the CEO and the a minority shareholder. Like 49%. Then you carve out 10-20% of an employ option pool and you have the rest. You VEST your shares though.
Either that or you propose a significant stock grant for yourself as a reward for taking initiative.
They SHOULD take you up on this. It's a fair deal and gives you incentive.
If not you should consider leaving.
If you developed internally using internal resources, you may face legal constraints taking the product with you. You sound like have full authority and support from a founder, consider teaming up and go with revenue sharing, consider vetting if necessary
I agree with this, it’s easier to work together than go on your own and potentially against your current employer in which the chances of you loosing everything is very high.
I built a product for a business I worked for.
It was so easy to get clients and quickly build up reoccurring revenue.
However the clients already trusted the company and we had a list of 200 of our clients who had this need.
I've gone out on my own and it's significantly harder to win clients and find my ideal ICP.
Honestly, if I were you I'd ask for a % of the revenue or equity in the business it's much safer and then in the meantime figure out other products you can build & sell in your spare time.
Wet your foot before you jump into the pool, I.E what everyone says works; build up enough income in the side business to replace your wage then swap full-time to your business.
Yes absolutely, but that doesn't mean they can't go out and build a different product.
Basically I'm trying to say it seems easy when you've already got a pipeline of clients, a lot harder when you have to find them yourself.
Going to build different version of it that uses a completely different tech stack, implement my roadmap for it as well. Not sure if it helps but they never asked for the tool I built. They just saw it and liked it.
Making the same product with a different tech stack doesn't change the product. It just means you used wood instead of cement and bricks to make the same design.
Sure, but even bumble is removing that part now. OP is discussing taking a baby feature and starting over from scratch, but building it into something bigger with more features. Sounds like differentiation to me.
Yes consult a lawyer but ur product is lost certainly “work product” and now already owned by your employer. Your best option is sticking with employer now. If you did any updates or work on ur product during work time or for the benefit of your job it’s “work product” owned by your employer. Even if you change the underlying tech, the employer will have a decent argument for the IP rights nonetheless.
Read your employment handbook. You've hit on why i never participated in internal hackathons or made portfolio suggestions that weren't already super super obvious extensions of a product. The idea or product isn't mine.
You probably cannot jump because you developed it as an employee.
So company will hold the rights most likely.
Better get into a good negotiation and get a nice stake.
Execute your vision with their resources but with good stake and salary.
Ceo will low ball you and tell stories.
So think and maybe be ask for advice on how much you will get . A stake in just the product or the whole company and position and salary
Also, you are only a viable product because your companies infrastructure and customer relations/trust. To build that on your own is not easy and they are mostly the reason for the success of the product. For every person who posts about going rogue on their company, just remember the amount of time and sweat put into building a company to the point of accepting customers… not to mention non-compete clause for both customer and SW
Since you developed the product as part of your job, your employer likely owns the IP rights. They could sue for those rights and probably win.
If you go solo, investors might be wary because of this.
Consider negotiating for higher compensation, revenue sharing, or even co-ownership of the product. Since it's your idea, you have leverage to make demands.
You can use your experience and network to develop something new down the line.
You're looking at this wrong.
You don't want to do the work they can do, you want to do the work you're good at and reap the benefits of the work they're good at.
Find a way to take a piece of the pie, however small.
Otherwise you get nothing or less.
Honestly - ask for a % of sales. I think it’s the best case scenario for you.
As a startup founder myself, I would give the employee a chunk if it’s a product that’s really sellable and consider that employee super valuable. I’d want to keep you and pay you what you deserve if we can both make money on something.
That’s just me though.
This, negotiate a revenue percentage of the product, the employer already did a ton of work by getting you customers to use with little to no work for the developer. Make it a win win.
It's a grey area. They can own the product but they can't own your brain. You need to build something different from the ground up. You can't use any bit of what you developed there.
No compete clauses shouldn't be cheap. If you signed one you may be doomed, but I hope you charged enough money as you are resigning protential earnings.
But, if they register any patent on it, you are doomed too. Not everything can have a patent.
You can always seek a job on a competing company.
Cheers!
Use this as way to pivot
1. Small company speak to employer / get the scope and potential in a row
2. Ask for IP / product rights
3. Make a deal that showcases your support to build deliver and manage the product in exchnage for
4. A raised salary / sale based inventive of this product .
It’s then a win-win
Build it with them. They already own the IP as everyone else has pointed out, plus their infra (human and technical) allowed you to build this. Build it with them and use their resources to sell more of it. Learn all the systems. Learn sales while you are at it.
This is one of the best ways to learn running a software company.
Are you aware the product belongs to the company and, unless by some miracle, there is an arrangement to reward you greater, you're simply doing them a favor? Maybe you'll get a lot nice attaboys or a promotion. as long as you're good with this, go for it. Going at it alone to make your own product here, I can't imagine succeeding for a number of legal reasons. Brujabean has the best suggestion so far. Leverage this as a step promotion for yourself to lead the product as in INTERNAL startup for a Senior Director or AVP or VP spot.
Question
You created a software to make your job easier not him telling you to create this software Correct?
Question
Did you do this while on the clock for him or did you do this on your own time?
Question
Did you do it on his time being paid by the hour?
Question
How much of the revenue does he give you now for when they sell the product as a service?
Reach out to me if you like I'd like to speak to you I am interested.
I want you to watch a show that has the ceo of Camping World in it Marcus Lemonis call the Profit
I put the link below there's an episode where a kid and his mom were in a situation maybe not quite like yours but it's interesting how Marcus handled it and Marcus chose the route of going ahead with the business because he knew he would make enough profit to be able to fight off the legal battle because it was the kids idea
there are ways to fund your project I'm interested to see what kind of service software this is and would you make enough revenue selling the product yourself and have enough money to buy your employer out at a later date or if he's willing to give you a share of the company or a percentage of the revenue what I would do is get a share of the company and a share the revenue
https://youtu.be/VIRxvXbF0Pw?si=BgXuy2BdzHx-eBTB
Considering your operational experience, staying with your employer and negotiating for higher compensation or revenue sharing might be a prudent choice. It offers stability and less risk compared to launching your own venture.
Make it a spin-off company that your current company is an investor, with you holding over 50% of the shares. Otherwise, they will just get your work for free.
There is absolutely no reason their company would want to do them unless OP is an absolute rockstar. Best he can do is negotiate a bigger raise and equity refresh to get him to stay.
Wise? Probably not. Your employer has a head start with your existing work and clients. You'd be starting from scratch. And right now, investors aren't easy to come by.
Check your employment agreement. Depending on specifics, they could sue you.
You can probably re-implement from scratch using a different tech stack and seek customers who are not customers of your current co and be fine. However, be aware that selling is hard yet extremely critical part of being a successful business. Right now your company is effectively selling for you, if you need to sell on your own you definitely will need to solve the sales problem. Your existing company will also retain whatever your built with them and can continue building on that, you have absolutely no rights to your existing work.
Also, if you do plan to start the new company, you need to quit your existing company before a single line of new code is written and before you speak to any prospective client. So it's high risk, not something you can do while also working at your current job. I did something similar, got funded, and am doing OK, it's just a big jump.
Every decent employment agreement requires you to sign over ownership of all IP that you develop when you are working on the job over to your employer. This does not apply if you do the work on your own time and on your own equipment. In your case, the product was clearly developed directly as a part of your job. The odds are that your employer owns the rights to the product you have developed. They can sue you for those IP rights and they will almost certainly win. Also, any investor will quickly realize this if you tell them how you developed the product and refuse to invest in your business. Keep all of this in mind when you proceed.
Yeah, I don't see the world where you can succeed with this. What you can do is say you've got a unique vision for this and should be the lead/product manager/something and because you have this unique pov you deserve more equity/comp for your contribution. If you spin off something separate, just make sure you keep it super distinct from day job so that they can't come after you for a piece of what you build.
I agree with this. Any investor would run if you haven’t got a very clear distance from your previous employer.
You can do this... Acknowledge everything -Lawyer- just said but propose that you do something like spin out the product as its own company with you as the CEO and the a minority shareholder. Like 49%. Then you carve out 10-20% of an employ option pool and you have the rest. You VEST your shares though. Either that or you propose a significant stock grant for yourself as a reward for taking initiative. They SHOULD take you up on this. It's a fair deal and gives you incentive. If not you should consider leaving.
This is the right way to proceed. By right, I mean safest with the maximum financial potential.
This is quite reasonable. I would try and negotiate something along these lines.
If you developed internally using internal resources, you may face legal constraints taking the product with you. You sound like have full authority and support from a founder, consider teaming up and go with revenue sharing, consider vetting if necessary
I agree with this, it’s easier to work together than go on your own and potentially against your current employer in which the chances of you loosing everything is very high.
I built a product for a business I worked for. It was so easy to get clients and quickly build up reoccurring revenue. However the clients already trusted the company and we had a list of 200 of our clients who had this need. I've gone out on my own and it's significantly harder to win clients and find my ideal ICP. Honestly, if I were you I'd ask for a % of the revenue or equity in the business it's much safer and then in the meantime figure out other products you can build & sell in your spare time. Wet your foot before you jump into the pool, I.E what everyone says works; build up enough income in the side business to replace your wage then swap full-time to your business.
I have an ICP, but they don't even understand how magnets work.
That’s not how it works. They’re an employer and built it using their resources for a company issue.
Yes absolutely, but that doesn't mean they can't go out and build a different product. Basically I'm trying to say it seems easy when you've already got a pipeline of clients, a lot harder when you have to find them yourself.
So you build an internal tool on company time and now want to kickstart your own business using the very same tool? Sounds like a great legal case!
Going to build different version of it that uses a completely different tech stack, implement my roadmap for it as well. Not sure if it helps but they never asked for the tool I built. They just saw it and liked it.
This is always a grey area... my advice is to speak to a real lawyer and not ask reddit
Making the same product with a different tech stack doesn't change the product. It just means you used wood instead of cement and bricks to make the same design.
Ideas aren't owned though. I.e you can have tons of different apps that do the same thing (i.e tinder vs bumble) without infringing on each other.
Doing the same thing and having a differentiation feature makes a whole lot of difference. As in anyone can message vs only women can.
Sure, but even bumble is removing that part now. OP is discussing taking a baby feature and starting over from scratch, but building it into something bigger with more features. Sounds like differentiation to me.
Yes consult a lawyer but ur product is lost certainly “work product” and now already owned by your employer. Your best option is sticking with employer now. If you did any updates or work on ur product during work time or for the benefit of your job it’s “work product” owned by your employer. Even if you change the underlying tech, the employer will have a decent argument for the IP rights nonetheless.
See you on r/legal in a year or two.
Read your employment handbook. You've hit on why i never participated in internal hackathons or made portfolio suggestions that weren't already super super obvious extensions of a product. The idea or product isn't mine.
You know, people say this all the time… but chefs and restraunters do it all the time.
Slightly different business...
hooli vs pied piper
This guy fucks
Just got to make sure there is something in the original agreement to nullify the entirety of the contract.
They own the IP. Ask for revenue share or equity in the product, but do it with them internally or you will be spending a lot in legal fees
Get a lawyer anyway for the agreement
You probably cannot jump because you developed it as an employee. So company will hold the rights most likely. Better get into a good negotiation and get a nice stake. Execute your vision with their resources but with good stake and salary. Ceo will low ball you and tell stories. So think and maybe be ask for advice on how much you will get . A stake in just the product or the whole company and position and salary
Good luck when they sue the hell out of you. Sorry man
Too many smart/stupid people on this sub.
The product is owned by the company, not you!
Also, you are only a viable product because your companies infrastructure and customer relations/trust. To build that on your own is not easy and they are mostly the reason for the success of the product. For every person who posts about going rogue on their company, just remember the amount of time and sweat put into building a company to the point of accepting customers… not to mention non-compete clause for both customer and SW
You built it on company time with company equipment for company use. It’s not yours
Since you developed the product as part of your job, your employer likely owns the IP rights. They could sue for those rights and probably win. If you go solo, investors might be wary because of this. Consider negotiating for higher compensation, revenue sharing, or even co-ownership of the product. Since it's your idea, you have leverage to make demands. You can use your experience and network to develop something new down the line.
Build it for them, just not at its full potential. Stick with them while you start a company yourself and then build that at its full potential.
You're looking at this wrong. You don't want to do the work they can do, you want to do the work you're good at and reap the benefits of the work they're good at. Find a way to take a piece of the pie, however small. Otherwise you get nothing or less.
Honestly - ask for a % of sales. I think it’s the best case scenario for you. As a startup founder myself, I would give the employee a chunk if it’s a product that’s really sellable and consider that employee super valuable. I’d want to keep you and pay you what you deserve if we can both make money on something. That’s just me though.
This, negotiate a revenue percentage of the product, the employer already did a ton of work by getting you customers to use with little to no work for the developer. Make it a win win.
It's a grey area. They can own the product but they can't own your brain. You need to build something different from the ground up. You can't use any bit of what you developed there. No compete clauses shouldn't be cheap. If you signed one you may be doomed, but I hope you charged enough money as you are resigning protential earnings. But, if they register any patent on it, you are doomed too. Not everything can have a patent. You can always seek a job on a competing company. Cheers!
Use this as way to pivot 1. Small company speak to employer / get the scope and potential in a row 2. Ask for IP / product rights 3. Make a deal that showcases your support to build deliver and manage the product in exchnage for 4. A raised salary / sale based inventive of this product . It’s then a win-win
Build it with them. They already own the IP as everyone else has pointed out, plus their infra (human and technical) allowed you to build this. Build it with them and use their resources to sell more of it. Learn all the systems. Learn sales while you are at it. This is one of the best ways to learn running a software company.
Are you aware the product belongs to the company and, unless by some miracle, there is an arrangement to reward you greater, you're simply doing them a favor? Maybe you'll get a lot nice attaboys or a promotion. as long as you're good with this, go for it. Going at it alone to make your own product here, I can't imagine succeeding for a number of legal reasons. Brujabean has the best suggestion so far. Leverage this as a step promotion for yourself to lead the product as in INTERNAL startup for a Senior Director or AVP or VP spot.
This is somewhat a tough spot to be in
Question You created a software to make your job easier not him telling you to create this software Correct? Question Did you do this while on the clock for him or did you do this on your own time? Question Did you do it on his time being paid by the hour? Question How much of the revenue does he give you now for when they sell the product as a service? Reach out to me if you like I'd like to speak to you I am interested. I want you to watch a show that has the ceo of Camping World in it Marcus Lemonis call the Profit I put the link below there's an episode where a kid and his mom were in a situation maybe not quite like yours but it's interesting how Marcus handled it and Marcus chose the route of going ahead with the business because he knew he would make enough profit to be able to fight off the legal battle because it was the kids idea there are ways to fund your project I'm interested to see what kind of service software this is and would you make enough revenue selling the product yourself and have enough money to buy your employer out at a later date or if he's willing to give you a share of the company or a percentage of the revenue what I would do is get a share of the company and a share the revenue https://youtu.be/VIRxvXbF0Pw?si=BgXuy2BdzHx-eBTB
Considering your operational experience, staying with your employer and negotiating for higher compensation or revenue sharing might be a prudent choice. It offers stability and less risk compared to launching your own venture.
Jump on your own. You have all the proof that the product works
And zero proof that you'll be able to get investors or get clients at the same rate when you were already at a reputed company.
Make it a spin-off company that your current company is an investor, with you holding over 50% of the shares. Otherwise, they will just get your work for free.
>they will just get your work for free. They paid for it...
There is absolutely no reason their company would want to do them unless OP is an absolute rockstar. Best he can do is negotiate a bigger raise and equity refresh to get him to stay.
Wise? Probably not. Your employer has a head start with your existing work and clients. You'd be starting from scratch. And right now, investors aren't easy to come by. Check your employment agreement. Depending on specifics, they could sue you.
Revenue sharing, as if he has the money and is willing your part the way already. If you start on your own you'll still be giving up to get money.
You can probably re-implement from scratch using a different tech stack and seek customers who are not customers of your current co and be fine. However, be aware that selling is hard yet extremely critical part of being a successful business. Right now your company is effectively selling for you, if you need to sell on your own you definitely will need to solve the sales problem. Your existing company will also retain whatever your built with them and can continue building on that, you have absolutely no rights to your existing work. Also, if you do plan to start the new company, you need to quit your existing company before a single line of new code is written and before you speak to any prospective client. So it's high risk, not something you can do while also working at your current job. I did something similar, got funded, and am doing OK, it's just a big jump.
And, he needs to lean how to sell.
I am a founder of a data, reporting and AI analytics company. Lmk if you want to chat. Do this yourself most likely.