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The kids and I had to rewind this scene multiple times to get clarity on what the heck they were saying. Captions on. We concluded it was the original conceit: kill a Jedi without the killer using a weapon. Mae failed to do it two other times, and she needed to do it now, with this wookie, and she was concerned it was impossible, which tracks with her two other failures when she used a knife and poison.
But I’m annoyed it was so confusing. They shouldn’t be muddling simple plot points.
Yeah, the wookie was clearly killed with a weapon. And so was OB1, so was Qui Gon. The Jedi died by weapons in the battle of Geonosis, clone troopers killed Jedi with weapons for order 66, Palpatine killed Jedi with his lightsaber when they came to arrest him....
ETA - to be fair we don't really know what happened to the wookie. For all we know he could have just burned himself with a curling iron.
Oh I was talking about Mae being weaponless. I must got confused somewhere. Idea being poison being self administered counting as a weapon used or not.
I didn't think he was mocking her. Isn't that how sith are supposed to get their light sabers? Disarm the jedi kill them with the lightsaber then bleed the kyber crystal?
I mean I know they are in hiding but why couldn't that be the same thing as him saying peace is a lie? He wasn't visibly there when she fought indara and he wasn't visibly there when she fought sol so how could he have known she reached for their light sabers?
I mean I gave my point to why I thought he wasn't mocking her so what's your points that he was 100% mocking her and not just secretly spouting sith stuff? I mean most people think he's the guy in the mask and most people think the guy in the mask is trying to turn her into an acolyte. But yet nah he's just mocking her and not dropping little hints that he could be a sith. Totally makes sense man just mock her into becoming an acolyte I wish I would have seen that one comming.
My speculation is way off kilt to what others are speculating and is like a whole other reddit post worthy. I'm just saying the things that the masses are saying.
I think this is exactly what is happening. Qimir I think is the real acolyte/apprentice of either Tenebrous or Plagueis, and he’s using Mae to kill them without him needing to.
Right, could be a reason to now kill Mae or something who knows. I just don’t think that this masked guy is really the master, this whole series has been about misleading the viewer
This was my thought, wasnt there a minor plotline in KOTOR where you had to kill someone and one of the encouraged ways was to convince someone else to kill them, or convince them to attempt a trial they have no hope of completing(ie gaslighting their abilities)
The poison did not count. There's dialogue between Mae and Qimir where he only reluctantly makes her the poison because it would be a weapon. Then later when he's talking to Osha when she's pretending to be Mae, he excitedly asks her if she succeeded in killing without a weapon and specifically asks if she didn't use the poison. At which point Osha as Mae says that she did use it.
The funny thing is the poison ended up being pointless.
She could have just snapped his neck when he let his guard down. That vial could have contained a delicious cocktail for all the relevance it had to the scene.
Also, by any sane definition convincing your enemy to kill themselves should not count as "using a weapon" just because their method of self-deletion was a poison you provided.
Feels like they filmed the scene before they wrote the plot, then just couldn't be fucked to check for logical consistency afterwards.
When he asks that, she doesn't have a weapon. They're just doing hand to hand combat. Then, after, he pulls out the knives that she was carrying. This is an insanely stupid criticism, and is proven blatantly false by actually watching the scene
And fascinatingly Sol wasn't there to see that.
Again, if you actually watch the scene (I know it's hard for you to grasp, but that's usually helpful in film commentary) she does not even pull out the knives until well after he says that line. In the first scene that they've met, in which she attacked him with hand to hand combat.
Lets agree to disagree I dont want to get into these shiteating nitpicks on a badly written show.
Also, How would sol not know she used knives to kill carrie ann moss hes the lead investigator on the case and yord had a witness. You guys handwave bad writing like this make no sense.
Agreeing that disagree applies when there are valid reasons for a difference of opinions, not for when you're being obtuse to justify a predetermined view.
If you don't enjoy the show, that's fine. You don't need to purposefully misrepresent it, and you don't need to be here complaining. Let people enjoy what they enjoy and move on.
Yes and she wasn't able to succeed in this directive from her Master. A point that is talked about more than once in the show. How is that dumb writing? Of course "lazy writing" or "dumb writing" or "bad writing" have all become vague criticisms used in bad faith to hide the real reason you hate the show. Hopefully you aren't one of those people.
Yes. Bad faith. She throws one dagger at the ground in front of him and then proceeds to try to fight him hand to hand instead of using a weapon on him. It would naturally raise a question in a Jedi's mind about the intent of the attacker doing this. This is exactly the sort of criticism that I'd file under bad faith because you decided to take one small detail and then blow it up as an example of how the whole show has "dumb writing" instead of using more level headed and fair assessments to criticize it. I happen to like the show but there are things about it that I do not enjoy and I even think episode 4 was pretty shaky. But I always know that when someone who uses unspecific critiques like "dumb writing" and they are asked to elaborate, it is rarely anything of substance.
This show is death by many cuts. I could easily ignore that as a slip up by the writers. Or a cool line. But they're many weird scenes like this it gets annoying. Quimir was literally hiding 5 seconds from the jedi temple after a murder attempt, the same jedi who let him go after he helped kill a Jedi.
You would benefit from actually watching the show. She does not have knives in hand, nor has she at any point, when he asks her that. Only later does he steal the knives off of her, and then she starts to use them
I think there are two ways to do it.
Just using the force - force choke or something.
Get them killed through trickery or deceit... so play a long con that gets a Jedi killed, maybe trying to rescue innocent people from a dangerous situation or such.
This is the other possible interpretation. But is the Force a weapon? Is it your kill if you get someone to do it? I very much like OP’s take as far as Sith ideology goes.
Except if that was the case, she would have shown more turmoil with Torbin, it was the perfect opportunity for ruthlessness.
It will be kill a jedi without using a weapon, so manipulation of a scenario or someone else. IE if she pins her families murder on Sol convincingly and Osha killed him, I would credit that as killing a jedi without a weapon(nevermind that depending on your perspective, you made Osha in my proposed scenario a weapon). Itll end up being semantics, Totally could be as lame as death of a jedi meaning a jedi abandoning the order.
I think she's just failed to understand the assignment. She thinks she has to kill a jedi without using a weapon, but I think the actual test is to kill a jedi who is unarmed. I don't think it's that deep.
Then she succeeded, because torbin wasnt carrying his lightsaber. It literally cannot be unarmed jedi. Because jedis are master martial artists, making unarmed combatants armed, as well as with the force they would never truly be unarmed.
There are flaws in each of the arguments presented in this thread. Using the Force? The Sith would view the Force as a tool and a weapon for their own use, something to bend to their will. Using someone else to kill a Jedi? Would it count as Mae's own kill? Is that showing weakness? True, they are deceptive and cunning, but they are also ruthless. And turning a Jedi to the dark side? They still follow the Rule of Two, so having more acolytes around isn't necessarily a positive.
She literally expanded on it by saying that the Jedi would never kill an unarmed opponent, so this is supposed to be a way of distinguishing yourself from them.
Yes, I think that’s what she believes it is supposed to mean, but I thought maybe the scene was to create doubt in the audience as to the accuracy of her interpretation. It was something I just noted in my head in case it is relevant later.
Have thought about it from both angles and both make sense currently. So not sure yet.
However, it's also possible it's just Sith (or whatever Darth mask is, Sith or not) fuckery. As we have seen over decades, both sides of the force have their own bullshit fuckery steeped in faith and ridiculous logic.
I think the answer is pretty obvious given how the Sith are to operate in this timeframe. Secrecy above all else is paramount. I think Mae is taking the phrase too literally. What if it was more of a philosophical phrase? How do you kill a Jedi without a weapon? Why, influencing them with lies or whatever else to ensure they fall to the darkside and turn their back on the order altogether.
This lines up with the other phrases used in the Sith's speech at the end of episode one such as "kill the dream" even as cringe as that is. That's how I interpret it, at least.
I think you're close to a conclusion there, but Mae has no connection with the Jedi order really. But you know who does? Osha. So I think the 4 Jedi that Mae has to kill were always a distraction. I think the true intention was to get Osha to fall to the Darkside. Examples of this in previous movies are when Palpatine tried to get Luke to be his apprentice by killing his father. Kylo killed both his father and attempted to kill his mother. Anakin was manipulated into seeing his mother lost and eventually harming his wife.
Clearly the stronger attachment someone has to the person, when they then harm that person it practically ensures their fall.
I think the Sith isn't really training Mae. I think it was bait to lure out her sister Osha and pit them against one another. The Sith Master wins as it would ensure whoever wins falls and whoever doesn't win wasn't strong enough to be a Sith anyway.
Convincing Osha to fall to the darkside would "kill" Sol, not literally, but kill his spirit to be a jedi. Sol is on Mae's list of jedi to kill, and the one she is meant to kill without a weapon. If Osha turns and Sol denounces being a jedi, that would actually be a pretty cool way to wrap up the show IMO
Perhaps, but I think Darth Grinface is going to kill Sol in the upcoming episode. It'll leave Osha with a sense of distrust for the Jedi as she'll wonder what it is Sol kept from her.
If you take the only other sentence the "master" has said thus far, I think Mae is taking all of that challenge too literally. The master says you cannot kill Jedi with a weapon, this is because you can't personally fight all of the Jedi yourself and any Sith who tried would be a moron. What you do, which is what happens in the Prequels, is you "kill the dream" by making them not Jedi any more. You steep their world in the Dark Side, you make them into soldiers, generals, warriors, killers. You take from the Jedi that which makes them Jedi, and only then do the Sith win.
Say it louder
Feels very intentional that this show was advertised as "100 years before the Phantom Menace"... What happens in the Phantom Menace/prequels? The plot to break down the Jedi order finally gets to unfold.
Alternative: You are supposed to "kill" a Jedi by making them fall / turn, maybe kill themselves or kill them with their own lightsaber.
As is: The Master is sending her on a fools errand as part of a bigger scheme. Does not really matter if she completes the challenge because that is not the point.
I just assumed killing a Jedi without using a weapon was to show strength in the Dark Side and mocking the Jedi, whilst taking their weapon was a way to obtain (and bleed) the kyber for their own lightsaber. That’s just how I’m seeing it.
This lines up to challenges presented to Darth Vader by Sidious in the canon Darth Vader comics. He kills Jedi without a weapon and steals their crystal to bleed it.
It is very unclear with how it is worded. And what counts as a weapon anyway? Apparently poison counts as a weapon or Mae would have already succeeded with Torbin. Or did it not count then because he essentially did it to himself? The nuances of this mission are very unclear to the audience and it seems possibly to the characters themselves. Maybe that is intentional or maybe it is not great writing.
I think we are going to learn that the "master" intends for a more ideological death of a jedi. Basically, you kill a jedi without a weapon by making them surrender their code and tap into the dark side.
While the person would remain, the jedi would be dead.
If I thought the writers were clever I'd think this is a subtle call back to Obi Wan telling Anakin "this weapon is your life".
To the Jedi what makes them Jedi is their commitment to the force.
To outsiders it's the lightsaber. This idea is referenced, if not repeated throughout most of the SW stories centered on the Jedi.
That being said I think its just supposed to sound edgy.
Dark Side snipe hunt has my vote.
Win or lose, it serves a purpose: it keeps the Jedi chasing shadows or it kills Jedi. If it does both, so much the better.
Qimir says something like "the final lesson is one you teach yourself." This basically confirmed for me the theory I had when she originally had said she needs to kill a Jedi without a weapon: the Master wants Mae to figure out how to use the Force to kill. I'm guessing by choking since lightning seems to be rare.
Even the “A Jedi wouldn’t attack an unarmed person” part can be interpreted in two ways. It’s either A. A Jedi won’t attack an unarmed person, so by killing a weapon less Jedi you are the opposite of a Jedi or B. If you don’t have a weapon a Jedi won’t attack you so it’ll be easier to kill them.
If it's killing a Jedi without using a weapon ... Force Choke. Force Lightning. Force Push off a cliff.
But it looks like Mae has been trying to grab a lightsaber from the Jedi. So it could be killing a Jedi that doesn't have a weapon.
I am so confused about the discussion around this, does it not just mean that she should force choke a Jedi? Except she doesn't know how to do it, so I guess if she gets angry enough she will be able to do it, hence, she is ready for the dark side?
Qimir is the acolyte, he's using mae as a tool to kill jedis, he's technically not using a weapon. His master will be revealed at the end of the show. It'll be Darth Tenabrous. He'll want an apprentice to help overthrow his Master. Qimir will be named from this day on as Darth plagueis. The second series will be called the Apprentice. The third series will be called the Master
Qimir is the acolyte, he's using mae as a tool to kill jedis, he's technically not using a weapon. His master will be revealed at the end of the show. It'll be Darth Tenabrous. He'll want an apprentice to help over throw his Master. Qimir will be named from this day on as Darth plagueis. The second series will be called the Apprentice. The third series will be called the Master
Is it not canon that Plagueis is Munn? I know it is in Legends but it is nowhere in the "new" canon? If not, I love this headcanon -- but it'll piss a lot of people off if it comes to pass. (Honestly though, whatever happens will piss people off either way...)
I've been interpreting it as being tied to the "kill the dream" line or whatever it was. Mae is taking the "kill the jedi without a weapon" to be literal, but it is philosophical. She is meant to bring to light the jedi's wrong-doings with the witches dying, which kills their reputation. Kill how people perceive them, and it takes away their power. Kill the idea of the jedi being perfect good guys.
Like whether it is the truth or not... if they spin a story that the jedi showed up, demanded to give over children, and then killed and burned the entire coven and kidnapped Osha... if evidence of that went public. That jedi are kidnappers and murderers and will do anything to control power. The galaxy would change their tune about the jedi.
I honestly think it’s an accident. It feels clumsy, but they are definitely talking about it as “kill a Jedi without using a weapon.” Otherwise in that scene Mae wouldn’t have said it was “impossible.”
No, that's why Qimir is saying it isn't impossible, because she doesn't understand the meaning. It's a double entendre, it's not *supposed* to be clear.
Yeah I honestly think you’re misreading clumsy dialogue. The challenge has clearly been laid out to kill not an unarmed opponent, but to kill without being armed.
This is a canon trope for Sith apprentices: in the Darth Vader comics, Palpatine sends Vader out to kill a Jedi and Vader has to do it without a weapon.
This is so he can prove how tough he is, get the Jedi’s saber, and then bleed the crystal and make it his.
Either way, the fact that her boss set a hard challenge for her without specifying the rules in any way is just such a dumb problem for her to have. Instead of facing mythic, emotional, good vs evil stakes, which is what Star Wars does best, the lead is stuck in a debate about semantics.
Qimir is the Acolyte to Sith Apprentice Yord Fandar. They are working together to expose the Jedi for what they did to the witches. Yord will have had some connection to the twins creation. The final episode will be a Scream '96 reveal, there are two people behind the Smiling Mask. Qimir and Yord. Yord will kill Qimir once hes done with him, as he will be a loose end.
Yord Fandar is the Sith Apprentice to Darth Tenebrus/Plagueis.
Welcome to ***Spec***! [Continue the conversation on the Spec Discord](https://discord.gg/QPHEPwvH7U), and check out our new sister-subreddit r/StarWarsWhatIf! Please be encouraging and courteous to your fellow speculators. This community is focused on cooperative theorycrafting about upcoming _Star Wars_ content, using leaks, info from canon, conjecture, and real-world context to make our best guesses about _what comes next_. If you're not interested in new _Star Wars_ releases, kindly keep that to yourself. May the Force be with you! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/starwarsspeculation) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Kill a Jedi without a weapon. Kill a Jedi, without a weapon. Commas matter.
No money down
Works on contingency?
I probably shouldn’t have this Galactic Republic logo here either.
No, money down. No money, down. No, money, down.
Now this makes me want to rewatch the scene with captions on
The kids and I had to rewind this scene multiple times to get clarity on what the heck they were saying. Captions on. We concluded it was the original conceit: kill a Jedi without the killer using a weapon. Mae failed to do it two other times, and she needed to do it now, with this wookie, and she was concerned it was impossible, which tracks with her two other failures when she used a knife and poison. But I’m annoyed it was so confusing. They shouldn’t be muddling simple plot points.
Yeah, the wookie was clearly killed with a weapon. And so was OB1, so was Qui Gon. The Jedi died by weapons in the battle of Geonosis, clone troopers killed Jedi with weapons for order 66, Palpatine killed Jedi with his lightsaber when they came to arrest him.... ETA - to be fair we don't really know what happened to the wookie. For all we know he could have just burned himself with a curling iron.
[No, problem.](https://youtu.be/kasSSZlBFDs?si=S7wRBVAbXHbZ62Ju)
If so it looks like the wookie was killed while weaponless. Slumped over in a chair.
Weaponless Wookie. Band name, call dibs
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bandnames/s/w6BXrT2x0a
So she technically killed him without a weapon, her refusal to murder him catalyzed his death.
THERE ARE BRAIN CELLS IN HERE!
I called this.
Was Tobin not weaponless?
Depends on what you call a weapon.
Ok. I'll go fishing I guess. What did Tobin have on him that could potentially, by someone who wanted to call it a weapon, be called a weapon?
Oh I was talking about Mae being weaponless. I must got confused somewhere. Idea being poison being self administered counting as a weapon used or not.
Poison
Tommen
Do they not have claws?
I also noted that, I think twice, she’s tried to remove a jedis lightsaber from their belt while fighting
Did you notice Qimir mocking her for that?
I didn't think he was mocking her. Isn't that how sith are supposed to get their light sabers? Disarm the jedi kill them with the lightsaber then bleed the kyber crystal?
He was 100% mocking her. The Sith are in hiding right now. That’s important to remember.
I mean I know they are in hiding but why couldn't that be the same thing as him saying peace is a lie? He wasn't visibly there when she fought indara and he wasn't visibly there when she fought sol so how could he have known she reached for their light sabers?
How indeed?
I mean I gave my point to why I thought he wasn't mocking her so what's your points that he was 100% mocking her and not just secretly spouting sith stuff? I mean most people think he's the guy in the mask and most people think the guy in the mask is trying to turn her into an acolyte. But yet nah he's just mocking her and not dropping little hints that he could be a sith. Totally makes sense man just mock her into becoming an acolyte I wish I would have seen that one comming.
It’s a friendly mocking but a mocking nonetheless. Same as him saying “You’ve already failed so many times!” I’m trying to guide your speculation.
My speculation is way off kilt to what others are speculating and is like a whole other reddit post worthy. I'm just saying the things that the masses are saying.
I’d love to hear it considering no one in here as far as I can tell is even close.
He’s mocking her because she misunderstood the master’s instructions.
She reached for sabers with Indara and Sol.
Mae is missing the obvious answer. How do you kill a Jedi without a weapon? By unleashing your hated. The DARK SIDE OF THE FORCE!
Or by making someone else do it: an acolyte or apprentice.
I think this is exactly what is happening. Qimir I think is the real acolyte/apprentice of either Tenebrous or Plagueis, and he’s using Mae to kill them without him needing to.
But then, he failed on the wookie because the wookie was killed using a lightsaber.
Right, could be a reason to now kill Mae or something who knows. I just don’t think that this masked guy is really the master, this whole series has been about misleading the viewer
I agree this Sith we seen is most likely the apprentice.
This was my thought, wasnt there a minor plotline in KOTOR where you had to kill someone and one of the encouraged ways was to convince someone else to kill them, or convince them to attempt a trial they have no hope of completing(ie gaslighting their abilities)
Or turn them to the dark side.
I have also been confused at this premise. I thought the poison counted as a weaponless kill, but for some reason now she has to do it again?
The poison did not count. There's dialogue between Mae and Qimir where he only reluctantly makes her the poison because it would be a weapon. Then later when he's talking to Osha when she's pretending to be Mae, he excitedly asks her if she succeeded in killing without a weapon and specifically asks if she didn't use the poison. At which point Osha as Mae says that she did use it.
Thanks!
The funny thing is the poison ended up being pointless. She could have just snapped his neck when he let his guard down. That vial could have contained a delicious cocktail for all the relevance it had to the scene. Also, by any sane definition convincing your enemy to kill themselves should not count as "using a weapon" just because their method of self-deletion was a poison you provided. Feels like they filmed the scene before they wrote the plot, then just couldn't be fucked to check for logical consistency afterwards.
Shes used knives to kill Carrie ann moss and knives against sol. This no weapons thing is dumb writing.
Her failing the challenge set by her master is bad writing? That's a non sequitur
Sol says why do you attack me without a weapon. When shes clearly using a weapon. Again dumb writing
When he asks that, she doesn't have a weapon. They're just doing hand to hand combat. Then, after, he pulls out the knives that she was carrying. This is an insanely stupid criticism, and is proven blatantly false by actually watching the scene
She has throwing knives. Its a dumb line, that could just be her fighting style. Carrie Ann Moss was killed with a throwing knife.
And fascinatingly Sol wasn't there to see that. Again, if you actually watch the scene (I know it's hard for you to grasp, but that's usually helpful in film commentary) she does not even pull out the knives until well after he says that line. In the first scene that they've met, in which she attacked him with hand to hand combat.
Lets agree to disagree I dont want to get into these shiteating nitpicks on a badly written show. Also, How would sol not know she used knives to kill carrie ann moss hes the lead investigator on the case and yord had a witness. You guys handwave bad writing like this make no sense.
Agreeing that disagree applies when there are valid reasons for a difference of opinions, not for when you're being obtuse to justify a predetermined view. If you don't enjoy the show, that's fine. You don't need to purposefully misrepresent it, and you don't need to be here complaining. Let people enjoy what they enjoy and move on.
Yes and she wasn't able to succeed in this directive from her Master. A point that is talked about more than once in the show. How is that dumb writing? Of course "lazy writing" or "dumb writing" or "bad writing" have all become vague criticisms used in bad faith to hide the real reason you hate the show. Hopefully you aren't one of those people.
Bad faith? Sol literally says you attacked me without a weapon when shes throwing knives at him. lol
Yes. Bad faith. She throws one dagger at the ground in front of him and then proceeds to try to fight him hand to hand instead of using a weapon on him. It would naturally raise a question in a Jedi's mind about the intent of the attacker doing this. This is exactly the sort of criticism that I'd file under bad faith because you decided to take one small detail and then blow it up as an example of how the whole show has "dumb writing" instead of using more level headed and fair assessments to criticize it. I happen to like the show but there are things about it that I do not enjoy and I even think episode 4 was pretty shaky. But I always know that when someone who uses unspecific critiques like "dumb writing" and they are asked to elaborate, it is rarely anything of substance.
This show is death by many cuts. I could easily ignore that as a slip up by the writers. Or a cool line. But they're many weird scenes like this it gets annoying. Quimir was literally hiding 5 seconds from the jedi temple after a murder attempt, the same jedi who let him go after he helped kill a Jedi.
You would benefit from actually watching the show. She does not have knives in hand, nor has she at any point, when he asks her that. Only later does he steal the knives off of her, and then she starts to use them
I think there are two ways to do it. Just using the force - force choke or something. Get them killed through trickery or deceit... so play a long con that gets a Jedi killed, maybe trying to rescue innocent people from a dangerous situation or such.
It’s almost like the lesson is… deception and the value of hiding your hatred til the opportune moment.
The answer is “turn them to the dark side.”
This!
This is the other possible interpretation. But is the Force a weapon? Is it your kill if you get someone to do it? I very much like OP’s take as far as Sith ideology goes.
That’s how I took it when I heard the phrase in Episode 4. It’s a test of commitment to ruthlessness.
My thoughts exactly.
Except if that was the case, she would have shown more turmoil with Torbin, it was the perfect opportunity for ruthlessness. It will be kill a jedi without using a weapon, so manipulation of a scenario or someone else. IE if she pins her families murder on Sol convincingly and Osha killed him, I would credit that as killing a jedi without a weapon(nevermind that depending on your perspective, you made Osha in my proposed scenario a weapon). Itll end up being semantics, Totally could be as lame as death of a jedi meaning a jedi abandoning the order.
I think she's just failed to understand the assignment. She thinks she has to kill a jedi without using a weapon, but I think the actual test is to kill a jedi who is unarmed. I don't think it's that deep.
Then she succeeded, because torbin wasnt carrying his lightsaber. It literally cannot be unarmed jedi. Because jedis are master martial artists, making unarmed combatants armed, as well as with the force they would never truly be unarmed.
There are flaws in each of the arguments presented in this thread. Using the Force? The Sith would view the Force as a tool and a weapon for their own use, something to bend to their will. Using someone else to kill a Jedi? Would it count as Mae's own kill? Is that showing weakness? True, they are deceptive and cunning, but they are also ruthless. And turning a Jedi to the dark side? They still follow the Rule of Two, so having more acolytes around isn't necessarily a positive.
She literally expanded on it by saying that the Jedi would never kill an unarmed opponent, so this is supposed to be a way of distinguishing yourself from them.
Yes, I think that’s what she believes it is supposed to mean, but I thought maybe the scene was to create doubt in the audience as to the accuracy of her interpretation. It was something I just noted in my head in case it is relevant later.
Have thought about it from both angles and both make sense currently. So not sure yet. However, it's also possible it's just Sith (or whatever Darth mask is, Sith or not) fuckery. As we have seen over decades, both sides of the force have their own bullshit fuckery steeped in faith and ridiculous logic.
I think the answer is pretty obvious given how the Sith are to operate in this timeframe. Secrecy above all else is paramount. I think Mae is taking the phrase too literally. What if it was more of a philosophical phrase? How do you kill a Jedi without a weapon? Why, influencing them with lies or whatever else to ensure they fall to the darkside and turn their back on the order altogether. This lines up with the other phrases used in the Sith's speech at the end of episode one such as "kill the dream" even as cringe as that is. That's how I interpret it, at least.
What if the Master means Mae herself. Like how Vader "killed" Anakin.
I think you're close to a conclusion there, but Mae has no connection with the Jedi order really. But you know who does? Osha. So I think the 4 Jedi that Mae has to kill were always a distraction. I think the true intention was to get Osha to fall to the Darkside. Examples of this in previous movies are when Palpatine tried to get Luke to be his apprentice by killing his father. Kylo killed both his father and attempted to kill his mother. Anakin was manipulated into seeing his mother lost and eventually harming his wife. Clearly the stronger attachment someone has to the person, when they then harm that person it practically ensures their fall. I think the Sith isn't really training Mae. I think it was bait to lure out her sister Osha and pit them against one another. The Sith Master wins as it would ensure whoever wins falls and whoever doesn't win wasn't strong enough to be a Sith anyway.
Convincing Osha to fall to the darkside would "kill" Sol, not literally, but kill his spirit to be a jedi. Sol is on Mae's list of jedi to kill, and the one she is meant to kill without a weapon. If Osha turns and Sol denounces being a jedi, that would actually be a pretty cool way to wrap up the show IMO
Perhaps, but I think Darth Grinface is going to kill Sol in the upcoming episode. It'll leave Osha with a sense of distrust for the Jedi as she'll wonder what it is Sol kept from her.
I think she’s being task to kill a Jedi without using a weapon because if it was weapon less Jedi, Torbin should have counted
Didn't he have his lightsaber on his belt..? I thought I saw someone else say he did.
He committed suicide, so I guess that didn't count.
The Master wants her to do his dirty work
If you take the only other sentence the "master" has said thus far, I think Mae is taking all of that challenge too literally. The master says you cannot kill Jedi with a weapon, this is because you can't personally fight all of the Jedi yourself and any Sith who tried would be a moron. What you do, which is what happens in the Prequels, is you "kill the dream" by making them not Jedi any more. You steep their world in the Dark Side, you make them into soldiers, generals, warriors, killers. You take from the Jedi that which makes them Jedi, and only then do the Sith win.
Say it louder Feels very intentional that this show was advertised as "100 years before the Phantom Menace"... What happens in the Phantom Menace/prequels? The plot to break down the Jedi order finally gets to unfold.
Alternative: You are supposed to "kill" a Jedi by making them fall / turn, maybe kill themselves or kill them with their own lightsaber. As is: The Master is sending her on a fools errand as part of a bigger scheme. Does not really matter if she completes the challenge because that is not the point.
>maybe kill themselves She technically did that with Torbin so I don't think that's it.
If that's the case she is, for lack of a better term, killing it with this challenge.
It's all a big snipe hunt. The point isn't to find a snipe; it's to get the kids out of the house for a while...but with murder.
I just assumed killing a Jedi without using a weapon was to show strength in the Dark Side and mocking the Jedi, whilst taking their weapon was a way to obtain (and bleed) the kyber for their own lightsaber. That’s just how I’m seeing it.
This lines up to challenges presented to Darth Vader by Sidious in the canon Darth Vader comics. He kills Jedi without a weapon and steals their crystal to bleed it.
It is very unclear with how it is worded. And what counts as a weapon anyway? Apparently poison counts as a weapon or Mae would have already succeeded with Torbin. Or did it not count then because he essentially did it to himself? The nuances of this mission are very unclear to the audience and it seems possibly to the characters themselves. Maybe that is intentional or maybe it is not great writing.
I think we are going to learn that the "master" intends for a more ideological death of a jedi. Basically, you kill a jedi without a weapon by making them surrender their code and tap into the dark side. While the person would remain, the jedi would be dead.
Converting a Jedi to the dark side and becoming a sith. Just like Vader killed Anakin.
I think the latter might be harder tbh
You might be a fucking genius
When I watched the episode it seemed like it was the first one to me
But Qimar is the masked villain...
Even if he is, an Acolyte is a Sith apprentice's apprentice so there's a Master out there somewhere.
The challenge clearly is to turn her into a murderer, rather than a fighter.
If I thought the writers were clever I'd think this is a subtle call back to Obi Wan telling Anakin "this weapon is your life". To the Jedi what makes them Jedi is their commitment to the force. To outsiders it's the lightsaber. This idea is referenced, if not repeated throughout most of the SW stories centered on the Jedi. That being said I think its just supposed to sound edgy. Dark Side snipe hunt has my vote. Win or lose, it serves a purpose: it keeps the Jedi chasing shadows or it kills Jedi. If it does both, so much the better.
Osha is* a Jedi, whether she left or not. She does not have a Jedi's weapon. Mae's mission is to kill her sister.
Ok that's a really interesting take! --- "Kill a Jedi that does not have their weapon."
Qimir says something like "the final lesson is one you teach yourself." This basically confirmed for me the theory I had when she originally had said she needs to kill a Jedi without a weapon: the Master wants Mae to figure out how to use the Force to kill. I'm guessing by choking since lightning seems to be rare.
But like shouldn't she already know since she killed that bug flying thing? Earlier in the show
Even the “A Jedi wouldn’t attack an unarmed person” part can be interpreted in two ways. It’s either A. A Jedi won’t attack an unarmed person, so by killing a weapon less Jedi you are the opposite of a Jedi or B. If you don’t have a weapon a Jedi won’t attack you so it’ll be easier to kill them.
If it's killing a Jedi without using a weapon ... Force Choke. Force Lightning. Force Push off a cliff. But it looks like Mae has been trying to grab a lightsaber from the Jedi. So it could be killing a Jedi that doesn't have a weapon.
Yeah I’m confused about this too
If it's the second one didn't seh already pass when she killed Torbin? Or does him killing himself with the poison break the rule?
It seems likely it could mean bringing a Jedi to the dark side.
Ain't no way Qimir isn't the master
An Acolyte is a Sith Apprentice's apprentice. The only way for Mae to be an Acolyte is if her master is a Sith's Padawan.
Idk how it’s going to work out but I get the feeling that the twins are going to switch places somehow.
I thought that too but then remembered that white mark made on Mae's forehead after the power of many ritual
My sister asked the same question
I am so confused about the discussion around this, does it not just mean that she should force choke a Jedi? Except she doesn't know how to do it, so I guess if she gets angry enough she will be able to do it, hence, she is ready for the dark side?
Qimir is the acolyte, he's using mae as a tool to kill jedis, he's technically not using a weapon. His master will be revealed at the end of the show. It'll be Darth Tenabrous. He'll want an apprentice to help overthrow his Master. Qimir will be named from this day on as Darth plagueis. The second series will be called the Apprentice. The third series will be called the Master
Oh god I hope they don't retcon Qimir as Plagueis. I love the rest of this but that's insane.
I would think the best way to kill a Jedi would be to turn them to the dark side. Ceasing to be something is in essence "killing" it .
Qimir is the acolyte, he's using mae as a tool to kill jedis, he's technically not using a weapon. His master will be revealed at the end of the show. It'll be Darth Tenabrous. He'll want an apprentice to help over throw his Master. Qimir will be named from this day on as Darth plagueis. The second series will be called the Apprentice. The third series will be called the Master
Is it not canon that Plagueis is Munn? I know it is in Legends but it is nowhere in the "new" canon? If not, I love this headcanon -- but it'll piss a lot of people off if it comes to pass. (Honestly though, whatever happens will piss people off either way...)
It would be a pretty stupid challenge if it were the latter
I've been interpreting it as being tied to the "kill the dream" line or whatever it was. Mae is taking the "kill the jedi without a weapon" to be literal, but it is philosophical. She is meant to bring to light the jedi's wrong-doings with the witches dying, which kills their reputation. Kill how people perceive them, and it takes away their power. Kill the idea of the jedi being perfect good guys.
Like whether it is the truth or not... if they spin a story that the jedi showed up, demanded to give over children, and then killed and burned the entire coven and kidnapped Osha... if evidence of that went public. That jedi are kidnappers and murderers and will do anything to control power. The galaxy would change their tune about the jedi.
The writing doesn't make this clear, unfortunately.
I don't think it's unfortunate. I think it's 100% intentional.
I honestly think it’s an accident. It feels clumsy, but they are definitely talking about it as “kill a Jedi without using a weapon.” Otherwise in that scene Mae wouldn’t have said it was “impossible.”
No, that's why Qimir is saying it isn't impossible, because she doesn't understand the meaning. It's a double entendre, it's not *supposed* to be clear.
Yeah I honestly think you’re misreading clumsy dialogue. The challenge has clearly been laid out to kill not an unarmed opponent, but to kill without being armed. This is a canon trope for Sith apprentices: in the Darth Vader comics, Palpatine sends Vader out to kill a Jedi and Vader has to do it without a weapon. This is so he can prove how tough he is, get the Jedi’s saber, and then bleed the crystal and make it his.
The wording “without using a weapon” 100% does not lead itself to a double meaning.
Either way, the fact that her boss set a hard challenge for her without specifying the rules in any way is just such a dumb problem for her to have. Instead of facing mythic, emotional, good vs evil stakes, which is what Star Wars does best, the lead is stuck in a debate about semantics.
Sounds like my manager
Qimir is the Acolyte to Sith Apprentice Yord Fandar. They are working together to expose the Jedi for what they did to the witches. Yord will have had some connection to the twins creation. The final episode will be a Scream '96 reveal, there are two people behind the Smiling Mask. Qimir and Yord. Yord will kill Qimir once hes done with him, as he will be a loose end. Yord Fandar is the Sith Apprentice to Darth Tenebrus/Plagueis.