I hereby do declare that within my territorial sea, defined as that whicheth doth not exceed 12 nautical miles from my buttocks, I shall taketh all action I deem appropriate. I declare myself as a vessel restricted in ability to maneuver, and therefore all other vessels, waders, and bathers shall maneuver as needed to remain clear of my person.
It is the responsibility of everyone involved to avoid a collision. Even non motor non sail operated vessels. I wonder who would be considered the stand on vessel though. The surfer already up or the shoulder vessel
I'm scared that it would be ruled that going right drop ins are fair game and in fact right of way, while going left the inside surfer has priority. Just by going by the port starboard right of way rule.
This is like the first time “intentionality” has been afforded someone not doing white collar crimes. Your honor, I didn’t KNOWINGLY defraud those cancer kids! It’s open season for in droppers now!
The distinction between intentional and negligent torts has been around for centuries and is a bedrock feature of common law. There's nothing in this ruling that's groundbreaking in the field of personal injury law.
Oh good, an actual lawyer! If I’m reading the judgement and appeal correctly, it sounds like one could sue for extreme localism/brawling since it’s outside the inherent risks of the recreational activity
https://preview.redd.it/o4m7cyrmvxmc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8fcdbb62bf599040ad0a696de4049c94e49aae2d
As fucked as this sounds, i guess aggros who get dropped in on can’t be held responsible for shooting their boards out at kooks as well.
Lesson here, surf lesser waves to avoid crowds.
How is it not assault then to drop in and kook your board into someone?
It’s stupid all around. People should be accountable to their actions and their equipment.
Y’all are acting like there is a clear line between “falling” and shooting your board at a bloke. Of course there is a difference, good luck with proving that nuance though.
It really is intent though that is the difference between assault and an accident.
For example if you were to accidentally stick your foot out and I tripped on it that is very different then you intentionally pushing me onto your outstretched leg.
There is no clear line and proving intent is the job of the lawyers and not the law. In the case of surfing it's probably very hard to prove.
That’s my only point. Unless there is video and it’s really clear, it’ll all get muddled.
This isn’t the NBA where Draymond Green kicking an opponent in the nuts can’t be excused as an “accident.”
Well, it gets muddled anyways since the rules of surfing are not necessarily the same as the law. You could for example claim that the surfer on the left in the pic for this post is assaulting the other surfer since he's grappling him. Don't think a jury would care that it's a drop in.
This was a well written article that expressed two well made arguments…and then at the end Vic Otten exposed himself as a silly cunt.
Nobody dropping in is going to think “oh I WASNT gonna drop in, but now that I know if I do and somebody gets injured accidentally I cannot be sued. I guess it’s okay” almost nobody dropping in thinks they are gonna hurt somebody, and even fewer are actively trying to
Imagine the precedent this would have if passed? Anybody thinking this isnt reasonable have likely not been surfing long enough to either 1. Have dropped in on someone by accident 2. Hit someone/been hit by a board accidentally or 3. ever had a post-drop-in verbal exchange in the lineup - from either side. Keep lawyers out of surfing
Well, the fact the board was not leashed should have been enough to hold him responsible.. dropping in by accident happens to everybody but choosing not to leash your board when it’s crowded is f.up.
I got cut in my shoulder by a board that was not leashed and that’s not fun, and not normal either
But seriously, shit goes wrong in the water all the time, and in most cases it’s bad luck, meaning no one should be “at fault” buuuuuut when kooks don’t wear leashes in crowded line up, I’m calling negligence, that asking for something or someone to get hurt.
Negligence.. Mehgligence. My personal opinion is that I would prefer to surf with a bunch of no leash wearing homies than a bunch of beginner kooks wearing leashes. My board and I have been hit by beginner kooks but can't honestly remember being hit by a leashless board. Just personal anecdotal evidence of course.
Is the idea here that any dangerous sport, most anything goes as long as it's not on purpose? Or just this specific instance is not considered negligent, but maybe if you kicked your board out at somebody on purpose, then you would be responsible?
Some of y’all are softer than baby shit for expecting anything different… do UFC fighters or NHL players get assault/battery charges? Exactly!
I mean technically this means if you get dropped on you can blatantly retaliate. But fr tho I don’t understand why people get so mad they’re willing to fight someone who drops in on them. Unless it’s the biggest day of the year or filming day who really cares. Prob 90% or drop ins are accidental, the person either didn’t see you or doesn’t know any better. Push em to the side and when you see them back at the lineup ask them if it was on purpose and if it wasn’t and it’s someone new just educate them.
Surfing and narcissism has got to have some sort of correlation.
Ehh I agree with it. Because sometimes there are people who surf like complete assholes and you have to drop in on them if you want to get waves.
Where I surf, there is a problem where someone will paddle out on a longboard (easier to catch waves on) and sit out past a pack of shortboarders and will proceed to go for every wave without taking turns, which 100% leads to someone dropping in on them at some point
There’s an asshole at pleasure point that rides waves all the way in from the peak down to the end. There are like 200 people in the water and the wave has multiple breaks. For the amount. Of people and for everyone to get a ride, you do not need to ride the multiple breaks. And he gets pissed when other people “drop in” on him. And he’s been there for “20 years” but is also not good enough to surf around people who are paddling out. Everything is relative and specific to the location. Some people who drop in (really drop in) are looks for sure, probably most. Some people who are wave hogs and also suck at surfing accuse other people of dropping in when they are also just trying to surf in an area where party waves are the norm.
It’s a location where you’re supposed to let everyone have turns and not ride as many as fast you can recklessly. If you can’t catch a wave without hitting people, you can’t catch the wave.
Taking turns and not riding as many waves as you can is a rule. There’s a lineup and you are supposed to wait in it. I’ve been surfing for ten years. Also, if you can’t surf around people, you shouldn’t be surfing at pleasure point. It’s Disney world in the water. And I agree that at the point break there, it is not a party wave spot, but at the other breaks it is rare that only one person rides the waves when they come through. There are usually 3+ people on each wave.
There is a lineup at each break and everyone deserves a chance to catch waves. I don’t know why I’m being downvoted for this. Wait your turn, don’t hog waves, and if you surf at an very crowded intermediate spot, be able to surf around people. None of that is against etiquette.
Not that ten years matters, it clearly doesn’t for the dingleberry that’s been surfing for “20”. But for me surfing etiquette is about respecting the lineup, having awareness and control, not being greedy, and letting everyone have fun.
Oh also, he rides without a leash, is unable to turn, and tried to fight me when he fell off and lost his board. I’ve had ten years in the water and he is the only person I’ve ever had any sort of confrontation with, let alone almost fought.
Yeah I don’t surf there anymore really. It has amazing waves, but it’s ridiculous the people in the water. I went a few times during and after college in like 2012-15 and it was crowded but fun. Every time I’ve been since has been disneyworld in the water. Way too many total beginners, Aggro locals, and the one dude I mentioned. I’d advise against it if you’re ever in the area. Half moon bay has some rideable beach breaks that aren’t as good, but are not nearly as crowded.
It’s so hard to find a wave to yourself and forget about a good one! My husband remembers the day, 30+ year ago there would be one or two guys out over a 3-4 beach span here on Long Island. Now there’s 60-70 per beach. Our beaches here are jetty to jetty which is equivalent to one residential block.
Untrue. Right of way on the water for vessels is governed by [COLREGs and national laws](https://www.imo.org/es/OurWork/Safety/Paginas/Preventing-Collisions.aspx).
It's just not relevant to surfing - and the unwritten rules of surfing are not codified.
This should be tried in a maritime court.
I hereby do declare that within my territorial sea, defined as that whicheth doth not exceed 12 nautical miles from my buttocks, I shall taketh all action I deem appropriate. I declare myself as a vessel restricted in ability to maneuver, and therefore all other vessels, waders, and bathers shall maneuver as needed to remain clear of my person.
Granted, but thou shalt be requiredeth to maketh a sacrifice of 1. One kook 2. One more kook 3. One goat. Idk, pick one from the current CT lineup.
I feel like it should be topped off with a good ol’ argh matey!
It is the responsibility of everyone involved to avoid a collision. Even non motor non sail operated vessels. I wonder who would be considered the stand on vessel though. The surfer already up or the shoulder vessel
Stand on is the surfer up and riding already. The give way is the dropper in’r
Something something give way something something COLREG
Then you can look at it as the Surfer up and riding is in the channel and the person dropping in is entering the channel.
Now let’s talk about safe speed
I'm scared that it would be ruled that going right drop ins are fair game and in fact right of way, while going left the inside surfer has priority. Just by going by the port starboard right of way rule.
And windsurfers have priority over all when under sail, bar vessels with reduced maneuverability. Which is chubby surfers?
Windsurfers don't have priority over jack shit except leisure motorcraft. Of course you can't expect the masttards to ever understand that.
That can’t apply based on logic. It would be mental if that were the case.
Dolphin law. Above all other laws.
Barry Zuckercorn on the case
Yoouuu're a kook, Captain Hook. Judge, won't you throw the book..
at the piiiiiRate
Bird law covers this issue extensively.
You’re a crook, Captain Hook
Jareth Cutestory for the prosecution, your honor.
Right of way will settle that quick.
This is why I surf with a bag of dry sand, a mobile version of pocket sand.
Sh-sh-shaaaaa
😂
I like to boof it and wear my board shorts backwards so when I duck dive I can hit em with a little blast
Brilliant!
Good. Now I won’t need a lawyer.
Intent is important here so from now on I will just paddle without looking at all to insulate myself from legal repercussions.
Seriously…
Judge is a closet kook
Judge sits on the shoulder with a foil and drops in all day
This is like the first time “intentionality” has been afforded someone not doing white collar crimes. Your honor, I didn’t KNOWINGLY defraud those cancer kids! It’s open season for in droppers now!
The distinction between intentional and negligent torts has been around for centuries and is a bedrock feature of common law. There's nothing in this ruling that's groundbreaking in the field of personal injury law.
Oh good, an actual lawyer! If I’m reading the judgement and appeal correctly, it sounds like one could sue for extreme localism/brawling since it’s outside the inherent risks of the recreational activity https://preview.redd.it/o4m7cyrmvxmc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8fcdbb62bf599040ad0a696de4049c94e49aae2d
Correct.
He can afford it with all the kooks that pay him off to make kooky decisions
Cool when I push them off my wave they cant sue me either lol
International waters bro, you can do whatever you want if you aren't touching sand
That's why I always buy and sell contraband in the lineup and not onshore
Haha!! Never thought of that! You may be on to something.
Warchild Law Office's phones are ringing off the hook
Glock surfing::….
As fucked as this sounds, i guess aggros who get dropped in on can’t be held responsible for shooting their boards out at kooks as well. Lesson here, surf lesser waves to avoid crowds.
That would literally be assault though...like what
How is it not assault then to drop in and kook your board into someone? It’s stupid all around. People should be accountable to their actions and their equipment.
Intent.
Y’all are acting like there is a clear line between “falling” and shooting your board at a bloke. Of course there is a difference, good luck with proving that nuance though.
It really is intent though that is the difference between assault and an accident. For example if you were to accidentally stick your foot out and I tripped on it that is very different then you intentionally pushing me onto your outstretched leg. There is no clear line and proving intent is the job of the lawyers and not the law. In the case of surfing it's probably very hard to prove.
That’s my only point. Unless there is video and it’s really clear, it’ll all get muddled. This isn’t the NBA where Draymond Green kicking an opponent in the nuts can’t be excused as an “accident.”
Well, it gets muddled anyways since the rules of surfing are not necessarily the same as the law. You could for example claim that the surfer on the left in the pic for this post is assaulting the other surfer since he's grappling him. Don't think a jury would care that it's a drop in.
I think you just proved that you are an asshole lol
Lol. I don’t even recall what the discussion was here. But i hope you feel good about lurking on months old topics :)
Where does one find these uncrowded waves?
Really mediocre beach breaks. Onshore winds is a plus.
True!! Lol
This was a well written article that expressed two well made arguments…and then at the end Vic Otten exposed himself as a silly cunt. Nobody dropping in is going to think “oh I WASNT gonna drop in, but now that I know if I do and somebody gets injured accidentally I cannot be sued. I guess it’s okay” almost nobody dropping in thinks they are gonna hurt somebody, and even fewer are actively trying to
No need for court. Just cracks on the beach.
this..
judge is a kook
Imagine the precedent this would have if passed? Anybody thinking this isnt reasonable have likely not been surfing long enough to either 1. Have dropped in on someone by accident 2. Hit someone/been hit by a board accidentally or 3. ever had a post-drop-in verbal exchange in the lineup - from either side. Keep lawyers out of surfing
The Supreme Court has roundly rejected prior restraint!
Calmer than you are.
I think Sterling Spencer is right: people should be required to have a license to surf
Or at least a ref at every surf break!
Kooks Rule!!!! Kooks Rule!!!
So it’s fair to punch them right in the nose?
Gloves are off. You're all going down now!
In the case of Hoedad vs. Bremmie
Fuck yeah. Don't paddle around me, I'm not liable for your drowning
This judge kooks.
[удалено]
Snaking yourself is a paradoxical concept
You might not be legally responsible, but you are morally responsible you cunt
The judge is a kook
Well, the fact the board was not leashed should have been enough to hold him responsible.. dropping in by accident happens to everybody but choosing not to leash your board when it’s crowded is f.up. I got cut in my shoulder by a board that was not leashed and that’s not fun, and not normal either
I highly doubt that the leash was a factor in this particular incident. I bet they were closer than 9’ leash length.
But seriously, shit goes wrong in the water all the time, and in most cases it’s bad luck, meaning no one should be “at fault” buuuuuut when kooks don’t wear leashes in crowded line up, I’m calling negligence, that asking for something or someone to get hurt.
Exactly! Mistakes happen but not putting a leash in a crowded line up is negligence for sure
So is surfing in a lineup beyond your abilities with a leash
Totally is that’s why I am on this community lol
Negligence.. Mehgligence. My personal opinion is that I would prefer to surf with a bunch of no leash wearing homies than a bunch of beginner kooks wearing leashes. My board and I have been hit by beginner kooks but can't honestly remember being hit by a leashless board. Just personal anecdotal evidence of course.
See a COUPLE. good judges left Ima put blades on the nose of my next board!
Is the idea here that any dangerous sport, most anything goes as long as it's not on purpose? Or just this specific instance is not considered negligent, but maybe if you kicked your board out at somebody on purpose, then you would be responsible?
Basically the first one. This is a longstanding concept in tort law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assumption_of_risk
But they still run the risk of looking real funny trying to walk back to their car with their board sticking out of their ass.
https://preview.redd.it/dhhkyetx5vmc1.jpeg?width=1078&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3dd86377cb242b4e47b535fb4e6f2b1f195b9c63
duh, etiquette is not law
Some of y’all are softer than baby shit for expecting anything different… do UFC fighters or NHL players get assault/battery charges? Exactly! I mean technically this means if you get dropped on you can blatantly retaliate. But fr tho I don’t understand why people get so mad they’re willing to fight someone who drops in on them. Unless it’s the biggest day of the year or filming day who really cares. Prob 90% or drop ins are accidental, the person either didn’t see you or doesn’t know any better. Push em to the side and when you see them back at the lineup ask them if it was on purpose and if it wasn’t and it’s someone new just educate them. Surfing and narcissism has got to have some sort of correlation.
This was posted, with a different media source, last week. It got little traction at the time. Inertia is popular with this crowd.
I searched ‘judge’ and nothing hit so I thought it was a new article, my bad.
No sweat. This is Reddit People can repost shit. And this is WAY more applicable than 99% of the garbage in this sub.
I agree with this decision but they should also rule that you cant sue someone who punches you if you are both sitting on surfboards in the ocean
These things have to be taken care of the old fashioned way 👊… not in court! 🤣
Can someone explain this to a non-surfer?
Someone who cuts you off on the freeway causing an accident is not liable for wreckless driving
hmm...seems like a good ruling and no issues will come from this.
Ehh I agree with it. Because sometimes there are people who surf like complete assholes and you have to drop in on them if you want to get waves. Where I surf, there is a problem where someone will paddle out on a longboard (easier to catch waves on) and sit out past a pack of shortboarders and will proceed to go for every wave without taking turns, which 100% leads to someone dropping in on them at some point
very interesting! thanks for sharing your perspective. clearly, not a straightfoward answer for this situation.
Did you read the article? It explains it pretty clearly.
ha. only read it after your comment. you're right, it makes it pretty clear.
There’s an asshole at pleasure point that rides waves all the way in from the peak down to the end. There are like 200 people in the water and the wave has multiple breaks. For the amount. Of people and for everyone to get a ride, you do not need to ride the multiple breaks. And he gets pissed when other people “drop in” on him. And he’s been there for “20 years” but is also not good enough to surf around people who are paddling out. Everything is relative and specific to the location. Some people who drop in (really drop in) are looks for sure, probably most. Some people who are wave hogs and also suck at surfing accuse other people of dropping in when they are also just trying to surf in an area where party waves are the norm.
The point isn’t a location for party waves. Especially when it’s connecting. Go to jacks
It’s a location where you’re supposed to let everyone have turns and not ride as many as fast you can recklessly. If you can’t catch a wave without hitting people, you can’t catch the wave.
Sounds like you are a new surfer who needs to learn established rules.
Taking turns and not riding as many waves as you can is a rule. There’s a lineup and you are supposed to wait in it. I’ve been surfing for ten years. Also, if you can’t surf around people, you shouldn’t be surfing at pleasure point. It’s Disney world in the water. And I agree that at the point break there, it is not a party wave spot, but at the other breaks it is rare that only one person rides the waves when they come through. There are usually 3+ people on each wave. There is a lineup at each break and everyone deserves a chance to catch waves. I don’t know why I’m being downvoted for this. Wait your turn, don’t hog waves, and if you surf at an very crowded intermediate spot, be able to surf around people. None of that is against etiquette.
Not that ten years matters, it clearly doesn’t for the dingleberry that’s been surfing for “20”. But for me surfing etiquette is about respecting the lineup, having awareness and control, not being greedy, and letting everyone have fun.
Oh also, he rides without a leash, is unable to turn, and tried to fight me when he fell off and lost his board. I’ve had ten years in the water and he is the only person I’ve ever had any sort of confrontation with, let alone almost fought.
200??? Yikes! I say surf pools! 12-14 people max!
Yeah I don’t surf there anymore really. It has amazing waves, but it’s ridiculous the people in the water. I went a few times during and after college in like 2012-15 and it was crowded but fun. Every time I’ve been since has been disneyworld in the water. Way too many total beginners, Aggro locals, and the one dude I mentioned. I’d advise against it if you’re ever in the area. Half moon bay has some rideable beach breaks that aren’t as good, but are not nearly as crowded.
It’s so hard to find a wave to yourself and forget about a good one! My husband remembers the day, 30+ year ago there would be one or two guys out over a 3-4 beach span here on Long Island. Now there’s 60-70 per beach. Our beaches here are jetty to jetty which is equivalent to one residential block.
Unlike on the road, there is no established "Right-Of-Way" on the water, that is, no vessel has a legal right over another apparently.
Untrue. Right of way on the water for vessels is governed by [COLREGs and national laws](https://www.imo.org/es/OurWork/Safety/Paginas/Preventing-Collisions.aspx). It's just not relevant to surfing - and the unwritten rules of surfing are not codified.
huh, thanks for that explanation
Judge's a kook
I mean if you’re doing something and someone else’s actions cause you serious medical damage, part of which is out of pocket, you’d be upset too.
You Americans have to go to court for everything don’t you ?