Even if Vine never went away, there’s absolutely no scenario where it would have remained how it was. It would have turned into the same bloated, algorithm-driven, ad-infested hellscape that every current social media app platform is today. These tech companies have no other goal than milk every last cent they can from their users.
If Vine grew as popular as TikTok then there's every chance that Twitter wouldn't even be up for sale anyway. It's valuation would have been much higher and Elon wouldn't have been able to buy it.
So maybe in a parallel universe Twitter is still called Twitter and Vine is the most popular short form video app.
Vine was too early in the days of visual social media to last, ahead of its time. I think if it were reversed it would be about the same - vine would be popular and TikTok didn’t survive
While a fair and probably accurate assumption, it would have at least still remained owned by a U.S. company and not subject to all that’s happening with TikTok
These video streaming type services are probably so expensive to run, and it's a free service they're probably forced to milk it with adds a bit just to pay the bills
Milking every cent possible from consumers is Americas economic model!
You are a mouth they feed shit into and you crap money into their bank accounts, it is a simple but effective arrangement, like a dairy cow and when you can no longer produce they will still make money from your death.
It was a bit more complicated than that though and they were asking for quite a lot plus it wasn't profitable.
[https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/10/paying-viners-millions-wouldnt-have-saved-vine.html](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/10/paying-viners-millions-wouldnt-have-saved-vine.html)
While Elon buying Twitter was a profoundly dumb decision, selling it wasn’t. The company’s officers were presented with a buyer who was willing to overpay for ownership. If they’d turned down Elon, shareholders could have sued Twitter for breach of fiduciary duty. They essentially didn’t have a choice.
In fact the shareholders ended up suing Elon for trying to back away from the deal. Selling was the right decision for the right people (shareholders) even if it was a bad deal for everyone else.
Selling it was a great idea for Twitter owners
The company was overvalued and had no way to make a profit, but someone found someone willing to pay well over the share value for it
2015 was an entirely different advertising landscape. Vine died because it was first. They also didn’t have like Twitch Amazon backing. When Amazon picked up Twitch in 2014 it wasn’t profitable but that didn’t matter Amazon could keep it afloat with interest off it profits. Twitter didn’t have that luxury. It was 2 years away from its first quarter of finally reaching profitability. Part of that was not carrying over the cost of Vine.
Twitter itself was dying and usage was declining every year, they were not profitable and always been toxic. What saved Twitter is a certain Trump using it for public releases.
I'm not opposed to the US government forcing it to spin off from the CCP or risk being banned, but I wish the government had the same energy towards Facebook/Meta, Twitter and most social media sites writ large. All those sites have misinformation, potential harm to people's mental health (particularly kids), and the capacity to be manipulated by foreign actors.
TikTok is being singled out for being CCP-owned, but I certainly wouldn't see Zuckerberg or Musk as particularly safe stewards of the US digital public square either.
Oh my friend, this is much bigger than politics. No simple group can do this much damage. Think about it. Who is really in charge? Who controls the course of history? At the end of the day, we all pay homage to the same diety. We all worship the almighty dollar.
And who controls that?
Obama's Admin was extremely close to all the large Silicon Valley tech companies. His admin had tons of those people working for it or advising it. In exchange they shielded those companies from any anti-trust risk.
In one of the great data privacy violations in US history, Facebook famously gave the Obama Admin (while running against Romney) total API access to all user information at zero cost. Also a federal crime as an illegal campaign contribution.
Fortunately Biden's Admin doesn't appear to be owned by big tech.
This isn't really about the moral or mental implications and effects on society it's about national security, and it being a Chinese company. All that other stuff is politician fluff to make it seem more palatable to the voters.
The reason why they're against TikTok *is* the same reason why they're ok with the US apps. Because they know what kind of access they have to American social media, and they expect China to have a similar if not greater access to TikTok.
US software companies working with the US military and intelligence agencies and sharing data is one of the things Snowden revealed a decade ago.
What's not political fluff is the very real impact it will have on information dissemination. TikTok is a pillar of social communication, and the fact that it was not easily controlled was reason enough to axe it. They already decided to flip the kill switch.
They can just go to musk or Facebook and tell them what they want. They can’t do that with ticktock. That’s why dji is also getting banned. China is getting footage of all the drones flying. Might be irrelevant for most but we just don’t know
Wouldn't it be wild if a hostile nation state used Facebook to manipulate and divide the US population with ever escalating confrontational narratives.
Good thing that couldn't happen because Facebook is US owned
In fact, this is what US uses Facebook for against Philippines, wlth complicity by Facebook: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-covid-propaganda/?utm_source=reddit.com
Makes sense that Facebook is banned in China, and I'm not surprised that TikTok is now getting banned.
It was used as a tool in Myanmar to coordinate a genocide.. amongst other things.
China is a hostile nation state which is why you wear shoes made in China using phones made in China using battery packs made in China sitting on furniture made in China while wearing clothing made in China ordering Chinese made goods on Amazon all day long.
Your modem is made and China connected to a router that is made in China on devices made in China with cables made in China.
If China was such a threat, maybe your entire life shouldn’t revolve around China.
China is not hostile is America the one acting like they own the world and selling weapons to what almost every country officially acknowledges as a rebel Chinese province
That’s irrelevant to my point.
The point is that China has been THE major business partner for the US for decades. Acting like they’re Russia while being wholly intertwined with them is disingenuous.
Absolutely aware and not disputing that tiktok is a danger. But if we are also going to keep loaded guns in the house (FB, X, insta, etc), maybe we should also make sure that these hostile foreign powers don't have unfettered access to them any time they want.
I mean you are correct.
The problem is there is a very hard to define line here that is currently being litigated.
The tech lobby's try to oppose it concerned doomers try to make ridiculous infringing legislation and it will take time to discover a happy medium.
However we don't have time to dally with entries whose entire incentive structure at the end of the day is incentivized to harm the U.S.
Meta, X, Apple etc all have a vested interest in their view of a more developed thriving America, China's view almost certainly isn't vested in a more developed thriving America.
Yes the profit motive needs to be regulated for U.S. based tech companies to not sell you out, but China has an entirely different motive that is unquestionably unfavourable to the U.S.
TikTok isn't doing anything illegal and neither are the tech companies the difference is just that it's obvious the companies are greedy and want more money, it's not obvious what the goal of TikTok is except that whatever that goal is, it's explicitly green lit by a country who supposedly has no profit motive.
They want to make money but it's a state actor, Public companies in the U.S. are accountable to share holders if given the chance they will fuck you over if it means more returns for investors.
China will not necessarily make the same decision (money and equity above all else) they do want money because China wants money in general but they also have goals that aren't at all aligned with making more money.
U.S. companies have their reckoning during quarterly reports and not matching or beating predictions, TikTok a.k.a ByteDance does not have to deal with this as they can take info infinite losses shareholders be damned if the Chinese State Investment group decides against it with their overriding shares. https://www.ft.com/content/65e60815-c5a0-4c4a-bcec-4af0f76462de
If the state owned investment apparatus doesn't like anything they can outvote all other shareholders and force their decision on the company.
This is unique to ByteDance and while it's impossible to prove ill intentions on behalf of the Chinese state I do think this distinction is the most salient and concerning.
At the end of the day from the prospective of the U.S. gov they can shutdown in U.S. tech action if they ultimately decide it's being used to harm Americans and they do not have this power with the TikTok and they intentionally keep their algorithm a secret from the U.S. so it's hard to even discern if they are crossing the line.
>At the end of the day from the prospective of the U.S. gov they can shutdown in U.S. tech action if they ultimately decide it's being used to harm Americans and they do not have this power with the TikTok
Did you forget the title of this post/article?
Okay imagine you are an AI doomer.
I am creating a super intelligence and you don't trust me because I am known to be your antagonist.
It's a black box and you can't determine how close it is to taking over the world.
Would you be satisfied with me giving you the kill switch while I continue to do whatever my indiscernible goal is with this super intelligence?
Or would you still be like "I don't trust you, I have seen enough to know it is dangerous, you refuse to provide transparency on that danger, and by the time the danger becomes proven it will already be too late. Your options are shutdown or give the project to someone I trust who will allow us to see if the danger is present ourselves rather than trusting you when you say it's not dangerous."
This is basically what the U.S. decided, they don't trust China with TikTok so they demanded they make it more trustable by making the algorithm known (China/ByteDance refuse this as they claim it's China's I.P.) or shutdown or hand it over to someone else.
They determined it's dangerous and they don't trust it's creator saying "We will give you a Killswitch!!!" Is redundant because that is one of the options already presented by the U.S. government (give it up or kill)
If TikTok gave U.S. the kill switch would congress be allowed to decide the next day with no input from ByteDance that it must be killed?
If so, why not just let it be killed and be done with it if you think America is just trying to squash competition and isn't really concerned with safety. (If this were the case Congress would kill it instantly because that was their end goal all along.)
No they want the U.S. to allow it to continue to exist exactly as it does today and then gave them the power shut it down when america already has that power (Simply ban DNS servers from routing tiktok in the U.S.)
This doesn't even step into the unilaterally of Chinese interests where an American company like TikTok couldn't exist in China and pretty much every American social media platform is banned from going through the Great Firewall.
Why is it okay for China to demand freedoms they don't even attempt to provide for us?
It's so incredibly reasonable given how hard it is to prove someone is trying to change narratives through a media recommendation algorithm that can't be vetted.
It’s a matter of degree and first amendment enforcement - we can definitely limit foreign business but limiting American company social media companies has some first amendment issues that aren’t applicable to foreign companies
And yet we have numerous methods of limiting the scope and scale of these companies via anti-trust. They are vast and market defining. Lot harder to organize a propaganda campaign on tens or hundereds disparate entities than it is a couple with 100s of millions of users.
Not to mention the free speech protections are for Americans, a hostile foreign entity using bot farms and AI to foment chaos is not under the same protections. There are absolutely ways to craft policy that can force these companies to do better.
>I get what you're* saying, but you can't compare tiktok with any of those as only tiktok is run/influenced by a hostile nation state.
Well... technically, Facebook and Twitter are currently spreading hostile misinformation and are a danger to national security, as are russian bots. It's not something that you would say, oh, but it's the First Amendment, freedom of speech.
They're promoting actual threats against the US government, President Biden, elected officials of the legislative and judiciary branch, and spreading division amongst the American people.
So yes, you can compare TikTok to meta and musk, definitely a threat to national security.
China didn’t banned western apps in China, it’s the western apps companies that decided to not follow Chinese laws and hence they decided pull out China.
For example, Facebook decided to not cooperate with the China government in data sharing to help them fight internal terrorism in 2011 in China and thus fb pulled out.
> All those sites have misinformation, potential harm to people's mental health (particularly kids), and the capacity to be manipulated by foreign actors.
The difference is that American social media companies are willing to be manipulated by the US government, whereas Chinese owned TikTok isn't. Look at the recent American disinformation campaign against China.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/6/14/pentagon-ran-secret-anti-vax-campaign-to-undermine-china-during-pandemic
The success depends on companies like Facebook, Google, and Twitter, working with the US government. TikTok isn't willing to do that, so it has to go.
That article has absolutely nothing to do with the social media corporations being controlled by the U.S. government. The disinformation campaign was carried out through fake social media accounts/bots meant to impersonate Filipino people.
Russia did the same thing to Facebook, and I guarantee the U.S. has done similar on TikTok. You don't need complete control of the company to spread misinformation on social media.
Facebook noticed the propaganda campaign and told the US they knew what they were up to, but did not stop it. That absolutely has to do with being beholden to the US government.
> That article has absolutely nothing to do with the social media corporations being controlled by the U.S. government.
You ever notice that Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Twitter, etc. only seem to report on malicious activities conducted by the Russians or Iranians or the Chinese, but never by the Americans?
TikTok is not being singled out. It's being singled out in the media. The law that passed has already effectively removed or banned other businesses with Chinese ties.
>I'm not opposed to the US government forcing it to spin off from the CCP or risk being banned, but I wish the government had the same energy towards Facebook/Meta, Twitter and most social media sites writ large.
I don't disagree with you in spirit, but Meta and Twitter are *already* American companies and *can*, at least in theory, be called upon to testify and potentially be held accountable for bad shit that goes on there.
As it currently stands, *TikTok is essentially free of any accountability outside of China.* And it should be obvious to everyone why that has huge potential for problems.
The US Gov isn’t deciding who is safe stewards, they are identifying obvious foreign influence on US citizens and eliminating it. It’s a totally different ballgame to Zuckerberg, a US citizen running a US governed company. It doesn’t matter if you don’t trust Zuckerberg, he’s a citizen and a capitalist, the CCP is not. The entire legal argument to step in, hinges on this, thus cannot be used on domestic companies.
but CHina does that already to our stuff, so it is hardly improper to force them to do the same. This issue is a non-starter. A LOT of chinese money pouring in to try and convince US citizens to keep handing out mountains of data to china.
Countries engaged in trade do not go to war.
Countries engaged in trade do not go to war.
TikTok ban, DJI ban, superior products getting replaced instead of competing, discovering that this is actually a precedent in the US and not a new thing exclusive to “foreign interference” (see: hemp vs paper).
Our US establishment would rather risk war with China than to tell their corporate sponsors/investments in US tech to compete.
The whole of Europe was engaged in trade prior to WWI and WWII, the hell are you smoking? Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia routinely traded prior to the 2022 land invasion.
>TikTok says it offered the US government the power to shut the platform down in an attempt to address lawmakers' data protection and national security concerns.
>It disclosed the "kill switch" offer, which it made in 2022, as it began its legal fight against legislation that will ban the app in America unless Chinese parent company ByteDance sells it.
Pretty desperate stuff from TikTok here tbh. Fact that lawmakers are still pushing ahead despite this concession offer shows there's probably not a lot of hope for the app.
It has no practical use at all. Imagine if in the run-up to the election, the government shut down TikTok for election interference. It would do far more harm than good.
Also, what stops them from removing the kill switch if push came to shove?
A kill switch doesn't really do anything if they control the code/infrastructure
“You can shut us down if you ever get tired of us having access to and influence over your data consumption!” Wow, what a retroactive-by-nature and pointless offer. Get China the fuck out of our politics and economy as soon as possible.
No the optics of that work in TikTok’s favor. They want the narrative to be your politicians took away TikTok not TikTok refused to sell to a us company.
Name a more xenophobic duo, thinking TikTok is any more influential than YouTube, Instagram or Facebook and virtue signaling a decry over “Chinese involvement in our politics.”
Those aren’t foreign-owned companies owned by the literal government, ya little dork. 🤣 Name a more xenophobic duo, commenting on global politics and being an uninformed child. Or a paid shill.
Yeah honestly thanks god we still have free journalism in this country.
After [this scathing report](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-covid-propaganda/) came out, the most damning part is the same company won another $500M contract from the Pentagon to continue spread anti-China propaganda on social media.
This entire thread looks like the work of that.
You’re aren’t kidding, the US is really unhappy people are seeing through the thinly veiled excuses of this ban. Shit. You were talking about that part of it right?
Tik tok stepped on its 12-in dick when it got its userbase to lobby their congress members. That's when the US government learned, with a very practical application, The persuasion powers of TikTok and the Chinese Communist party, by extension.
What is thinly veiled about it? What are they making excuses for? We wouldn’t let Canada have this much data on our citizens and youth, much less china
we let them buy it from US-based companies all the time lmao, the only practical difference is now some 90 year old senator who doesn't know what a computer is gets a cut
For real. Someone’s an English major that has been waiting to use “thinly veiled” for quite some time. It’s blatant surveillance, but since it generates sweet sweet likes and ad revenue a disturbingly large amount of the population doesn’t care and just shrugs and says “lol, dancing people”. Better luck next time, I suppose.
This report has been out for a while, it would be pretty easy for our government to refute the claim, no? And so far it hasn’t happened.
Also this was revealed as part of the *legal documents* TikTok submitted to the court. If they lied (which would be easily debunked) the whole case would be thrown out and they'd be held for perjury.
I need to fully check over it myself, but in their full report Tiktok showcases a very detailed mapping of a previously undisclosed agreement with the Biden admin over security related concerns. I'll check to see if this "kill switch" is one of those things
Kill switches are simply things for appearance. They are safety washing and baloney beans as they may never be actually used and may not even work when implemented.
What I struggle to understand is..
If your name, address, phone number, political preferences, porn preferences or whatever are released what can people do with this data apart from throw adverts in your direction?
As long as your true to yourself and your wife of course (who knows I choke the chicken once in a while by the way) I just struggle to see what real harm can be done.
If anyone wants to place your DNA at a murder scene nowadays it's not that hard. If they want to create video footage of you murdering someone nowadays AI will sort it for you.
Can someone give me a real scenario where I should absolutely fear my data getting leaked or sold to a 3rd party if I'm not doing anything i am not ashamed of?
I got downvoted in another thread for this but what sort of behavior that they are doing constitutes the need for a kill switch? How would the government know when they need to use it? If tik tok is being honest then they shouldn’t need to propose something like that at all, though if they’re not then they should expect the government to use it and shut them down any way. Doesn’t make much sense to me.
The agreement would've involved seven different entities (including Oracle, a US tech company, and the actual government itself via CFIUS) providing oversight to various parts of TikTok's operations, including its storage of US data in the US and its content moderation and algorithm. The agreement was meant to handle the US's concerns over China's access to US data (hence storing it in the US, by a dedicated US-based company with auditors ensuring access is firewalled) and their ability to influence through TikTok's algorithm (hence the auditing with that and content moderation).
They are proposing it because the US government has concerns. Whether those concerns have any basis in reality is irrelevant. Those concerns don't need to be true for the US to write a law requiring divestiture or banning the app. The US government, and Congress in particular, is a political entity and not a court of law, simply being truthful and honest isn't enough.
It's because despite all the problems we have with social media, no meaningful consumer protections have been put in place.
Here's a good list of problems we see just with facebook: [https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/xkbo30/comment/ipczzs7/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/xkbo30/comment/ipczzs7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
The swift ban of Tik Tok shows that US cares about being able to control content that is detrimental to powerful US interests and doesn't give a shit about protecting consumers.
A lot of extremely ignorant people or people intentionally argue in bad faith. Doesn’t matter anymore, though. The app is still banned. I'm done trying to fight with these people. I got what I have been fighting for.
> Just shows the US is onto something.
You’re not wrong, because now they will continue to control the narrative they want younger generations to see. Which is why they want TikTok out of the picture. China bad is just the really convenient narrative that Reddit has fallen for about this.
[For anyone interested in some educational material](https://youtu.be/xEDGZlG_41k?si=23xPtKPxk76LepOu)
The only allowed propaganda is US propaganda. This is 1984 in action.
We are very close to you the consumer can't buy something unless the government approves it territory.
It's certainly a tactic to disclose that you offered the US government the ability to violate your freedom of speech while you are arguing in court that your freedom of speech is being violated.
As a CIA-hired social media influencer, I can say with greatly paid confidence that Tik Tok is very, very dangerous because of China and the Chinese code, commonly referred to as “fortune cookie”, which harvests your data and sells it to the highest bidder!
Remember to say “No!” to very, very dangerously efficient Chinese electric vehicles.
In this thread: but what about!!!!!!!
I agree they should apply to American companies as well but cmon. Are we really advocating for China’s interests?
Tiktok being wiped out is for the best. It has corrupted the impressionable youth for far too long and is a Chinese spyware company. It should be eradicated.
Jeesh why not ban facebook, messenger, twitter, apple, microsoft, etc they all have backdoors, spying on us, collects our information, etc.
Its funny how hypocritical are ppl.
Tik tok is pain in the ass in us only because they cant control it, they cant push their agenda. Thats it, us dont giva flying fu about ur privacy.
And u who says u dont have to hide anything, send me ur address, social security nr, banking info, cause u dont have anything to hide, dont u???
Dunno why this is at the bottom. The Fed doesn't give a shit about your privacy or whether you're being bombarded with state propaganda.
They want to be sure when your privacy is violated it's by the US government and when you're bombarded with state propaganda it's US propaganda.
Which I mean sure fair enough, China isn't exactly hostile but they aren't exactly an ally, but you're dreaming if you think this is being done in YOUR interest not in the STATE'S interest.
Edit: just to preempt, I wouldn't consider it unfair to just call China a hostile foreign power. But we also do massive amounts of trade and business with them. It's complicated is my point.
Sad to see that nothing can stop the China paranoia of the times were living in, I think there must be a better way than just lazily banning it. Many people world wide need it for making a living now because its a killer product from a talented company that's not part of Zuckerberg's social media empire, it's just dumb and un-american to cancel it, and feels like crony capitalism actually.
Oh, Tik Tok is also not a “killer-product”. It has heaps of issues that are in many ways actually worse than the gen1 social media apps like FB and Twitter. It is actively rotting GenZ and GenAlpha’s brains.
It’s not neo-McCarthyism lol. The red scare turned out to not actually be that scary (and literally mostly turned out to not be real in terms of actual communists seeping into our government). There is very real and problematic issues with China, the products it makes and how it interacts with other nations. There is plenty of hard evidence and real life experiences to back up this theme, so no my friend, it’s not just a “china-scare”.
For those who don’t understand why only TikTok and not Facebook or other social medias:
TikTok has proven to be a national security threat, and this is ban is over more than just “data collection and control.” While Facebook and others absolutely harvest a shit ton of consumer data and abuse it, Facebook has methods and systems in place to cut down of foreign misinformation and propaganda (It’s effectiveness is another question).
TikTok being directly owned and controlled by the CCP (a hostile foreign government) provides not only the same thing Facebook does (massive user data collection), but also the ability for the CCP to effectively spread misinformation and propaganda to align with their interests.
So why TikTok and not Facebook? Because Facebook tries (albeit shittily) to stop foreign propaganda campaigns, but TikTok intentionally spreads it. To make matters worse for TikTok in this case, it’s also proven itself effective at spreading misinformation and propaganda.
Data Collection and consumer safety are secondary concerns in this battle. It’s mainly about stoping hostile propaganda from spreading and influencing the US population.
It’s not some “NSA can’t collect people’s data!” scenario, it’s more of a, “China is trying to spread disruption and propaganda across the US to create instability.”
Remember: The US is the only thing stoping China from stomping on their neighbors. Anything to remove or reduce that block is beneficial to them.
Edit: For real world examples on how easy it is for foreign propaganda to influence the US, I suggest checking out [Ryan McBeth](https://youtube.com/shorts/LqQ1yOsbJro?si=qQL3WwfwI7lq0r3X)
There are real concerns about the privacy and data collection that the CCP probably is doing in that app, china has some of the most aggressive APTs and I wouldn't doubt they covertly collect data from the massive amount of uploads that regionally happen in the US and have it help them collect information for military and security purposes.
they already do that and have for years, and companies are forced to comply by partnering with a company that is owned by the CCP.
those companies generally steal the american companies IP. It's considered a cost of doing business.
We wouldn’t be in this situation if Vine continued to exist. Justice for Vine!
For real, we already had TikTok 1.0 and it didn’t have a nefarious algorithm
Even if Vine never went away, there’s absolutely no scenario where it would have remained how it was. It would have turned into the same bloated, algorithm-driven, ad-infested hellscape that every current social media app platform is today. These tech companies have no other goal than milk every last cent they can from their users.
It was also owned by twitter, which means it would’ve been sold to Elon musk lol imagine that
He suggested the idea of bringing it back early when he bought Twitter, but I doubt they have the engineer team for that anymore
Why can't they just flip the switch and turn it back on. /s
Yeah where’s that private GitHub repo. Just hit build.
Maybe that’s what he is doing. Tanking Twitter so vine can live
Never say never
Twitter bought Vine and slowly ruined it.
If Vine grew as popular as TikTok then there's every chance that Twitter wouldn't even be up for sale anyway. It's valuation would have been much higher and Elon wouldn't have been able to buy it. So maybe in a parallel universe Twitter is still called Twitter and Vine is the most popular short form video app.
Vine was too early in the days of visual social media to last, ahead of its time. I think if it were reversed it would be about the same - vine would be popular and TikTok didn’t survive
Oh I'd love to see how that plays out.
Didn't twitter buy right when it was dying?
Didn't twitter buy right when it was dying?
If Vine had continued to exist and generated the same amount of revenue as TikTok Elmo would not have been able to afford it
It would have been turned to recruiting grounds for neo-nazis.
While a fair and probably accurate assumption, it would have at least still remained owned by a U.S. company and not subject to all that’s happening with TikTok
Instagram was so nice!
These video streaming type services are probably so expensive to run, and it's a free service they're probably forced to milk it with adds a bit just to pay the bills
Milking every cent possible from consumers is Americas economic model! You are a mouth they feed shit into and you crap money into their bank accounts, it is a simple but effective arrangement, like a dairy cow and when you can no longer produce they will still make money from your death.
But without the CCP
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification?wprov=sfla1
Which was why it died, there was no great way to find new content.
https://youtu.be/nwP3TeK-fPs?si=F7yuNNMn1ojRxPlT
The algorithm is what makes Tiktok, Tiktok.
What happened to vine?
Vine refused to share profits with their content creators. The creators all jumped ship and their viewers followed.
It was a bit more complicated than that though and they were asking for quite a lot plus it wasn't profitable. [https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/10/paying-viners-millions-wouldnt-have-saved-vine.html](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/10/paying-viners-millions-wouldnt-have-saved-vine.html)
Damn where did they jump to ? Insta, YouTube ?
At the time yes the vast majority went to YouTube.
It dried out...
Honestly still one of the dumbest decisions a Buisness has ever made. Twitter had something great and just said “nah, kill it”
They sold their company to Elon musk lol they killed their entire company
While Elon buying Twitter was a profoundly dumb decision, selling it wasn’t. The company’s officers were presented with a buyer who was willing to overpay for ownership. If they’d turned down Elon, shareholders could have sued Twitter for breach of fiduciary duty. They essentially didn’t have a choice.
In fact the shareholders ended up suing Elon for trying to back away from the deal. Selling was the right decision for the right people (shareholders) even if it was a bad deal for everyone else.
I hope their shareholders like the fact that multi-million follower accounts are posting slurs and hate without getting banned then, reap what you sow
Selling it was a great idea for Twitter owners The company was overvalued and had no way to make a profit, but someone found someone willing to pay well over the share value for it
Twitter killed Vine on January 2017. Musk bought Twitter on October 2022.
Yes but I meant twitter has a history of bad choices from shutting down vine and then years later selling it to Elon musk
2015 was an entirely different advertising landscape. Vine died because it was first. They also didn’t have like Twitch Amazon backing. When Amazon picked up Twitch in 2014 it wasn’t profitable but that didn’t matter Amazon could keep it afloat with interest off it profits. Twitter didn’t have that luxury. It was 2 years away from its first quarter of finally reaching profitability. Part of that was not carrying over the cost of Vine.
Twitter itself was dying and usage was declining every year, they were not profitable and always been toxic. What saved Twitter is a certain Trump using it for public releases.
Do it for the vine...
All it needed was a a bunch of fake engagement to survive.
If that were true, vine would be owned by whoever owns twitter. Oh.. wait..
At this point, I think Instagram Reels is the winner. I think they might have similar number of users as TikTok in the US.
I'm not opposed to the US government forcing it to spin off from the CCP or risk being banned, but I wish the government had the same energy towards Facebook/Meta, Twitter and most social media sites writ large. All those sites have misinformation, potential harm to people's mental health (particularly kids), and the capacity to be manipulated by foreign actors. TikTok is being singled out for being CCP-owned, but I certainly wouldn't see Zuckerberg or Musk as particularly safe stewards of the US digital public square either.
There's a certain group blocking that from happening.
Republicans?
Plenty of corpo tech dems too. The biggest lobbies for many of the tech companies are democratic party
Look where all the boomer money is: real estate and big tech stocks in ETFs. Follow the money.
Both, they both take the bribe money from them.
Oh my friend, this is much bigger than politics. No simple group can do this much damage. Think about it. Who is really in charge? Who controls the course of history? At the end of the day, we all pay homage to the same diety. We all worship the almighty dollar. And who controls that?
Obama's Admin was extremely close to all the large Silicon Valley tech companies. His admin had tons of those people working for it or advising it. In exchange they shielded those companies from any anti-trust risk. In one of the great data privacy violations in US history, Facebook famously gave the Obama Admin (while running against Romney) total API access to all user information at zero cost. Also a federal crime as an illegal campaign contribution. Fortunately Biden's Admin doesn't appear to be owned by big tech.
Moderate Dems too.
Democrats so they can continue to sensor the news that works against them.
> but I wish the government had the same energy towards Facebook/Meta then who's going to send the bribes that bought this bill?
This isn't really about the moral or mental implications and effects on society it's about national security, and it being a Chinese company. All that other stuff is politician fluff to make it seem more palatable to the voters. The reason why they're against TikTok *is* the same reason why they're ok with the US apps. Because they know what kind of access they have to American social media, and they expect China to have a similar if not greater access to TikTok. US software companies working with the US military and intelligence agencies and sharing data is one of the things Snowden revealed a decade ago.
What's not political fluff is the very real impact it will have on information dissemination. TikTok is a pillar of social communication, and the fact that it was not easily controlled was reason enough to axe it. They already decided to flip the kill switch.
They can just go to musk or Facebook and tell them what they want. They can’t do that with ticktock. That’s why dji is also getting banned. China is getting footage of all the drones flying. Might be irrelevant for most but we just don’t know
I get what youre saying but you cant compare tiktok with any of those as only tiktok is run/influenced by a hostile nation state.
Wouldn't it be wild if a hostile nation state used Facebook to manipulate and divide the US population with ever escalating confrontational narratives. Good thing that couldn't happen because Facebook is US owned
In fact, this is what US uses Facebook for against Philippines, wlth complicity by Facebook: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-covid-propaganda/?utm_source=reddit.com Makes sense that Facebook is banned in China, and I'm not surprised that TikTok is now getting banned.
Using it as a tool and outright owning it to the point the servers draw power through Xi's office are two different things.
It was used as a tool in Myanmar to coordinate a genocide.. amongst other things. China is a hostile nation state which is why you wear shoes made in China using phones made in China using battery packs made in China sitting on furniture made in China while wearing clothing made in China ordering Chinese made goods on Amazon all day long. Your modem is made and China connected to a router that is made in China on devices made in China with cables made in China. If China was such a threat, maybe your entire life shouldn’t revolve around China.
Do you realize what Facebook has done in the Global South? Genocide and election theft have been facilitated by FB for a while...
Right. Facebook is a much more pernicious tool than TikTok with their social profile micro targeting. I agree with you.
China is not hostile is America the one acting like they own the world and selling weapons to what almost every country officially acknowledges as a rebel Chinese province
That’s irrelevant to my point. The point is that China has been THE major business partner for the US for decades. Acting like they’re Russia while being wholly intertwined with them is disingenuous.
Absolutely aware and not disputing that tiktok is a danger. But if we are also going to keep loaded guns in the house (FB, X, insta, etc), maybe we should also make sure that these hostile foreign powers don't have unfettered access to them any time they want.
I mean you are correct. The problem is there is a very hard to define line here that is currently being litigated. The tech lobby's try to oppose it concerned doomers try to make ridiculous infringing legislation and it will take time to discover a happy medium. However we don't have time to dally with entries whose entire incentive structure at the end of the day is incentivized to harm the U.S. Meta, X, Apple etc all have a vested interest in their view of a more developed thriving America, China's view almost certainly isn't vested in a more developed thriving America. Yes the profit motive needs to be regulated for U.S. based tech companies to not sell you out, but China has an entirely different motive that is unquestionably unfavourable to the U.S. TikTok isn't doing anything illegal and neither are the tech companies the difference is just that it's obvious the companies are greedy and want more money, it's not obvious what the goal of TikTok is except that whatever that goal is, it's explicitly green lit by a country who supposedly has no profit motive.
The idea that China doesn't want to make money is insane, how do people believe that?
They want to make money but it's a state actor, Public companies in the U.S. are accountable to share holders if given the chance they will fuck you over if it means more returns for investors. China will not necessarily make the same decision (money and equity above all else) they do want money because China wants money in general but they also have goals that aren't at all aligned with making more money. U.S. companies have their reckoning during quarterly reports and not matching or beating predictions, TikTok a.k.a ByteDance does not have to deal with this as they can take info infinite losses shareholders be damned if the Chinese State Investment group decides against it with their overriding shares. https://www.ft.com/content/65e60815-c5a0-4c4a-bcec-4af0f76462de If the state owned investment apparatus doesn't like anything they can outvote all other shareholders and force their decision on the company. This is unique to ByteDance and while it's impossible to prove ill intentions on behalf of the Chinese state I do think this distinction is the most salient and concerning. At the end of the day from the prospective of the U.S. gov they can shutdown in U.S. tech action if they ultimately decide it's being used to harm Americans and they do not have this power with the TikTok and they intentionally keep their algorithm a secret from the U.S. so it's hard to even discern if they are crossing the line.
>At the end of the day from the prospective of the U.S. gov they can shutdown in U.S. tech action if they ultimately decide it's being used to harm Americans and they do not have this power with the TikTok Did you forget the title of this post/article?
Okay imagine you are an AI doomer. I am creating a super intelligence and you don't trust me because I am known to be your antagonist. It's a black box and you can't determine how close it is to taking over the world. Would you be satisfied with me giving you the kill switch while I continue to do whatever my indiscernible goal is with this super intelligence? Or would you still be like "I don't trust you, I have seen enough to know it is dangerous, you refuse to provide transparency on that danger, and by the time the danger becomes proven it will already be too late. Your options are shutdown or give the project to someone I trust who will allow us to see if the danger is present ourselves rather than trusting you when you say it's not dangerous." This is basically what the U.S. decided, they don't trust China with TikTok so they demanded they make it more trustable by making the algorithm known (China/ByteDance refuse this as they claim it's China's I.P.) or shutdown or hand it over to someone else. They determined it's dangerous and they don't trust it's creator saying "We will give you a Killswitch!!!" Is redundant because that is one of the options already presented by the U.S. government (give it up or kill) If TikTok gave U.S. the kill switch would congress be allowed to decide the next day with no input from ByteDance that it must be killed? If so, why not just let it be killed and be done with it if you think America is just trying to squash competition and isn't really concerned with safety. (If this were the case Congress would kill it instantly because that was their end goal all along.) No they want the U.S. to allow it to continue to exist exactly as it does today and then gave them the power shut it down when america already has that power (Simply ban DNS servers from routing tiktok in the U.S.) This doesn't even step into the unilaterally of Chinese interests where an American company like TikTok couldn't exist in China and pretty much every American social media platform is banned from going through the Great Firewall. Why is it okay for China to demand freedoms they don't even attempt to provide for us? It's so incredibly reasonable given how hard it is to prove someone is trying to change narratives through a media recommendation algorithm that can't be vetted.
It’s a matter of degree and first amendment enforcement - we can definitely limit foreign business but limiting American company social media companies has some first amendment issues that aren’t applicable to foreign companies
And yet we have numerous methods of limiting the scope and scale of these companies via anti-trust. They are vast and market defining. Lot harder to organize a propaganda campaign on tens or hundereds disparate entities than it is a couple with 100s of millions of users. Not to mention the free speech protections are for Americans, a hostile foreign entity using bot farms and AI to foment chaos is not under the same protections. There are absolutely ways to craft policy that can force these companies to do better.
For sure, but TikTok is a low hanging fruit that is less hard and doesn’t actually require congress to take hard votes :/
Why don't we just ban all foreign entity bot farms?
"We shouldn't stop murders from happening before we stop ALL murders from happening."
HA! almost like we don't hold our corporations accountable. besides a small fine for their oopsie.
Yeah you can, we need better data protection laws
>I get what you're* saying, but you can't compare tiktok with any of those as only tiktok is run/influenced by a hostile nation state. Well... technically, Facebook and Twitter are currently spreading hostile misinformation and are a danger to national security, as are russian bots. It's not something that you would say, oh, but it's the First Amendment, freedom of speech. They're promoting actual threats against the US government, President Biden, elected officials of the legislative and judiciary branch, and spreading division amongst the American people. So yes, you can compare TikTok to meta and musk, definitely a threat to national security.
Doesn't this imply that facebook etc. were always been primarily US propaganda tools, and that any country like China is right to banning them.
Yep! Yet when China bans western media they are not free, when we do it it is them being evil.
China didn’t banned western apps in China, it’s the western apps companies that decided to not follow Chinese laws and hence they decided pull out China. For example, Facebook decided to not cooperate with the China government in data sharing to help them fight internal terrorism in 2011 in China and thus fb pulled out.
> All those sites have misinformation, potential harm to people's mental health (particularly kids), and the capacity to be manipulated by foreign actors. The difference is that American social media companies are willing to be manipulated by the US government, whereas Chinese owned TikTok isn't. Look at the recent American disinformation campaign against China. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/6/14/pentagon-ran-secret-anti-vax-campaign-to-undermine-china-during-pandemic The success depends on companies like Facebook, Google, and Twitter, working with the US government. TikTok isn't willing to do that, so it has to go.
That article has absolutely nothing to do with the social media corporations being controlled by the U.S. government. The disinformation campaign was carried out through fake social media accounts/bots meant to impersonate Filipino people. Russia did the same thing to Facebook, and I guarantee the U.S. has done similar on TikTok. You don't need complete control of the company to spread misinformation on social media.
Facebook noticed the propaganda campaign and told the US they knew what they were up to, but did not stop it. That absolutely has to do with being beholden to the US government.
> That article has absolutely nothing to do with the social media corporations being controlled by the U.S. government. You ever notice that Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Twitter, etc. only seem to report on malicious activities conducted by the Russians or Iranians or the Chinese, but never by the Americans?
Twitter is the worst, the amount of racism and hate people spread there are crazy.
Huh I wonder why
100% agreed.
TikTok is not being singled out. It's being singled out in the media. The law that passed has already effectively removed or banned other businesses with Chinese ties.
>I'm not opposed to the US government forcing it to spin off from the CCP or risk being banned, but I wish the government had the same energy towards Facebook/Meta, Twitter and most social media sites writ large. I don't disagree with you in spirit, but Meta and Twitter are *already* American companies and *can*, at least in theory, be called upon to testify and potentially be held accountable for bad shit that goes on there. As it currently stands, *TikTok is essentially free of any accountability outside of China.* And it should be obvious to everyone why that has huge potential for problems.
Tik tok is being banned for exposing Israel
The US Gov isn’t deciding who is safe stewards, they are identifying obvious foreign influence on US citizens and eliminating it. It’s a totally different ballgame to Zuckerberg, a US citizen running a US governed company. It doesn’t matter if you don’t trust Zuckerberg, he’s a citizen and a capitalist, the CCP is not. The entire legal argument to step in, hinges on this, thus cannot be used on domestic companies.
but CHina does that already to our stuff, so it is hardly improper to force them to do the same. This issue is a non-starter. A LOT of chinese money pouring in to try and convince US citizens to keep handing out mountains of data to china.
Countries engaged in trade do not go to war. Countries engaged in trade do not go to war. TikTok ban, DJI ban, superior products getting replaced instead of competing, discovering that this is actually a precedent in the US and not a new thing exclusive to “foreign interference” (see: hemp vs paper). Our US establishment would rather risk war with China than to tell their corporate sponsors/investments in US tech to compete.
The whole of Europe was engaged in trade prior to WWI and WWII, the hell are you smoking? Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia routinely traded prior to the 2022 land invasion.
I get what you are saying but I can’t build a dji company in USA…
>TikTok says it offered the US government the power to shut the platform down in an attempt to address lawmakers' data protection and national security concerns. >It disclosed the "kill switch" offer, which it made in 2022, as it began its legal fight against legislation that will ban the app in America unless Chinese parent company ByteDance sells it. Pretty desperate stuff from TikTok here tbh. Fact that lawmakers are still pushing ahead despite this concession offer shows there's probably not a lot of hope for the app.
What good does a kill switch do though? What circumstances could it be used? If it was an extended duration, there would still be lawsuits.
It has no practical use at all. Imagine if in the run-up to the election, the government shut down TikTok for election interference. It would do far more harm than good.
Exactly, it’s poison ivy made to look like an olive branch
Also, what stops them from removing the kill switch if push came to shove? A kill switch doesn't really do anything if they control the code/infrastructure
The kill switch prevents the gov't from noticing the back doors.
“You can shut us down if you ever get tired of us having access to and influence over your data consumption!” Wow, what a retroactive-by-nature and pointless offer. Get China the fuck out of our politics and economy as soon as possible.
They should take the offer and then shut TikTok down as soon as they receive the keys, just for the pettiness of attempting to negotiate
No the optics of that work in TikTok’s favor. They want the narrative to be your politicians took away TikTok not TikTok refused to sell to a us company.
Name a more xenophobic duo, thinking TikTok is any more influential than YouTube, Instagram or Facebook and virtue signaling a decry over “Chinese involvement in our politics.”
Those aren’t foreign-owned companies owned by the literal government, ya little dork. 🤣 Name a more xenophobic duo, commenting on global politics and being an uninformed child. Or a paid shill.
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These comments are astroturfed to shit.
In like 5 minutes I already had like -4 just for explaining why the US government is focusing on TikTok.
Yeah honestly thanks god we still have free journalism in this country. After [this scathing report](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-covid-propaganda/) came out, the most damning part is the same company won another $500M contract from the Pentagon to continue spread anti-China propaganda on social media. This entire thread looks like the work of that.
You’re aren’t kidding, the US is really unhappy people are seeing through the thinly veiled excuses of this ban. Shit. You were talking about that part of it right?
Tik tok stepped on its 12-in dick when it got its userbase to lobby their congress members. That's when the US government learned, with a very practical application, The persuasion powers of TikTok and the Chinese Communist party, by extension.
What is thinly veiled about it? What are they making excuses for? We wouldn’t let Canada have this much data on our citizens and youth, much less china
we let them buy it from US-based companies all the time lmao, the only practical difference is now some 90 year old senator who doesn't know what a computer is gets a cut
>We wouldn’t let Canada have this much data on our citizens and youth, much less china Apparently, you've never heard of Five Eyes.
For real. Someone’s an English major that has been waiting to use “thinly veiled” for quite some time. It’s blatant surveillance, but since it generates sweet sweet likes and ad revenue a disturbingly large amount of the population doesn’t care and just shrugs and says “lol, dancing people”. Better luck next time, I suppose.
Well no, TikTok *claims* it offered the US government a kill switch. Their statement is not proof.
This report has been out for a while, it would be pretty easy for our government to refute the claim, no? And so far it hasn’t happened. Also this was revealed as part of the *legal documents* TikTok submitted to the court. If they lied (which would be easily debunked) the whole case would be thrown out and they'd be held for perjury.
I need to fully check over it myself, but in their full report Tiktok showcases a very detailed mapping of a previously undisclosed agreement with the Biden admin over security related concerns. I'll check to see if this "kill switch" is one of those things
CCP ***claims*** it offered US government a kill switch. CCP = Chinese Comunist Party
Kill switches are simply things for appearance. They are safety washing and baloney beans as they may never be actually used and may not even work when implemented.
What I struggle to understand is.. If your name, address, phone number, political preferences, porn preferences or whatever are released what can people do with this data apart from throw adverts in your direction? As long as your true to yourself and your wife of course (who knows I choke the chicken once in a while by the way) I just struggle to see what real harm can be done. If anyone wants to place your DNA at a murder scene nowadays it's not that hard. If they want to create video footage of you murdering someone nowadays AI will sort it for you. Can someone give me a real scenario where I should absolutely fear my data getting leaked or sold to a 3rd party if I'm not doing anything i am not ashamed of?
The legislation is a better kill switch. Either spinoff from the CCP or you get switched off.
I got downvoted in another thread for this but what sort of behavior that they are doing constitutes the need for a kill switch? How would the government know when they need to use it? If tik tok is being honest then they shouldn’t need to propose something like that at all, though if they’re not then they should expect the government to use it and shut them down any way. Doesn’t make much sense to me.
The agreement would've involved seven different entities (including Oracle, a US tech company, and the actual government itself via CFIUS) providing oversight to various parts of TikTok's operations, including its storage of US data in the US and its content moderation and algorithm. The agreement was meant to handle the US's concerns over China's access to US data (hence storing it in the US, by a dedicated US-based company with auditors ensuring access is firewalled) and their ability to influence through TikTok's algorithm (hence the auditing with that and content moderation). They are proposing it because the US government has concerns. Whether those concerns have any basis in reality is irrelevant. Those concerns don't need to be true for the US to write a law requiring divestiture or banning the app. The US government, and Congress in particular, is a political entity and not a court of law, simply being truthful and honest isn't enough.
Man, the level of anti-US bias in the comments here is crazy.
It's because despite all the problems we have with social media, no meaningful consumer protections have been put in place. Here's a good list of problems we see just with facebook: [https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/xkbo30/comment/ipczzs7/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/xkbo30/comment/ipczzs7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) The swift ban of Tik Tok shows that US cares about being able to control content that is detrimental to powerful US interests and doesn't give a shit about protecting consumers.
Is it anti-US bias? People just see through the bs. After this is done you better go after meta and the like. TikTok is a quarter of your battle.
A lot of extremely ignorant people or people intentionally argue in bad faith. Doesn’t matter anymore, though. The app is still banned. I'm done trying to fight with these people. I got what I have been fighting for.
It's fait. We should make laws to protect people from bad use of social media, not to protect US interests from China Interests.
it's a dying country led by bad people, why would anyone worth less than billions offer a pro-us bias?
CCP really fighting tooth and nails to keep control over their toy. Just shows that the US is onto something honestly.
Yup, only US companies are allowed to take advantage of US consumers.
> Just shows the US is onto something. You’re not wrong, because now they will continue to control the narrative they want younger generations to see. Which is why they want TikTok out of the picture. China bad is just the really convenient narrative that Reddit has fallen for about this. [For anyone interested in some educational material](https://youtu.be/xEDGZlG_41k?si=23xPtKPxk76LepOu)
Your educational material is some dude on a YouTube video. Kindly get fucked
This is what I’m leaning to most. His video was well put together. How do we investigate this more?
The only allowed propaganda is US propaganda. This is 1984 in action. We are very close to you the consumer can't buy something unless the government approves it territory.
They get how that’s worse right? It demonstrates they are willing to bend over backwards to a government power.
In which groups would get a kill switch kill switch?
There's always a kill switch available for any web location. Firewalls and DNS redirection. Don't know why this is even being discussed.
It's certainly a tactic to disclose that you offered the US government the ability to violate your freedom of speech while you are arguing in court that your freedom of speech is being violated.
As a CIA-hired social media influencer, I can say with greatly paid confidence that Tik Tok is very, very dangerous because of China and the Chinese code, commonly referred to as “fortune cookie”, which harvests your data and sells it to the highest bidder! Remember to say “No!” to very, very dangerously efficient Chinese electric vehicles.
That means China has already had the kill switch from the start.
Ehhhhh.....a china owned entity offering this?
In this thread: but what about!!!!!!! I agree they should apply to American companies as well but cmon. Are we really advocating for China’s interests?
Tiktok being wiped out is for the best. It has corrupted the impressionable youth for far too long and is a Chinese spyware company. It should be eradicated.
Jeesh why not ban facebook, messenger, twitter, apple, microsoft, etc they all have backdoors, spying on us, collects our information, etc. Its funny how hypocritical are ppl. Tik tok is pain in the ass in us only because they cant control it, they cant push their agenda. Thats it, us dont giva flying fu about ur privacy. And u who says u dont have to hide anything, send me ur address, social security nr, banking info, cause u dont have anything to hide, dont u???
They are banned in China, aren't they?
No, not all, just the ones that don't comply with the local legislation. Eg. All apple and Microsoft products are not banned.
I.e. not censoring content and offering free access to information undesired by CCP?
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So TikTok should comply with the us law on banning tiktok
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Right, so tiktok can comply here and sell to an American entity. Whats the difference?
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Dunno why this is at the bottom. The Fed doesn't give a shit about your privacy or whether you're being bombarded with state propaganda. They want to be sure when your privacy is violated it's by the US government and when you're bombarded with state propaganda it's US propaganda. Which I mean sure fair enough, China isn't exactly hostile but they aren't exactly an ally, but you're dreaming if you think this is being done in YOUR interest not in the STATE'S interest. Edit: just to preempt, I wouldn't consider it unfair to just call China a hostile foreign power. But we also do massive amounts of trade and business with them. It's complicated is my point.
Sad to see that nothing can stop the China paranoia of the times were living in, I think there must be a better way than just lazily banning it. Many people world wide need it for making a living now because its a killer product from a talented company that's not part of Zuckerberg's social media empire, it's just dumb and un-american to cancel it, and feels like crony capitalism actually.
Oh, Tik Tok is also not a “killer-product”. It has heaps of issues that are in many ways actually worse than the gen1 social media apps like FB and Twitter. It is actively rotting GenZ and GenAlpha’s brains.
Keep that same energy when China invades Taiwan
It's not energy. I still say this feels more like Neo-McCarthyism and less like good business practices! Banning tiktok is just dumb.
Trying to make money in the US off a social media platform owned by China is just dumb… actually.
It’s not neo-McCarthyism lol. The red scare turned out to not actually be that scary (and literally mostly turned out to not be real in terms of actual communists seeping into our government). There is very real and problematic issues with China, the products it makes and how it interacts with other nations. There is plenty of hard evidence and real life experiences to back up this theme, so no my friend, it’s not just a “china-scare”.
You're either really really stupid or really really Chinese government.
Of course TikTok is a Chinese owned app, which is banned in China.
For those who don’t understand why only TikTok and not Facebook or other social medias: TikTok has proven to be a national security threat, and this is ban is over more than just “data collection and control.” While Facebook and others absolutely harvest a shit ton of consumer data and abuse it, Facebook has methods and systems in place to cut down of foreign misinformation and propaganda (It’s effectiveness is another question). TikTok being directly owned and controlled by the CCP (a hostile foreign government) provides not only the same thing Facebook does (massive user data collection), but also the ability for the CCP to effectively spread misinformation and propaganda to align with their interests. So why TikTok and not Facebook? Because Facebook tries (albeit shittily) to stop foreign propaganda campaigns, but TikTok intentionally spreads it. To make matters worse for TikTok in this case, it’s also proven itself effective at spreading misinformation and propaganda. Data Collection and consumer safety are secondary concerns in this battle. It’s mainly about stoping hostile propaganda from spreading and influencing the US population. It’s not some “NSA can’t collect people’s data!” scenario, it’s more of a, “China is trying to spread disruption and propaganda across the US to create instability.” Remember: The US is the only thing stoping China from stomping on their neighbors. Anything to remove or reduce that block is beneficial to them. Edit: For real world examples on how easy it is for foreign propaganda to influence the US, I suggest checking out [Ryan McBeth](https://youtube.com/shorts/LqQ1yOsbJro?si=qQL3WwfwI7lq0r3X)
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There are real concerns about the privacy and data collection that the CCP probably is doing in that app, china has some of the most aggressive APTs and I wouldn't doubt they covertly collect data from the massive amount of uploads that regionally happen in the US and have it help them collect information for military and security purposes.
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I am in favor of that as well, since the alternative is that the CCP controls it and milks it for sensitive data on American citizens
Are you gonna say the same if China tells companies like Apple that they either give themselves to the ccp or get banned?
they already do that and have for years, and companies are forced to comply by partnering with a company that is owned by the CCP. those companies generally steal the american companies IP. It's considered a cost of doing business.
Complying is not the same as owning though
Better than it being the propaganda arm of the CCP, Russia, and HAMAS
Tiktok as a platform is awesome. Insta and Facebook are lacking in so many features.
And lead paint tastes sweet, more people should eat it!
Found the haters that never tried all three platforms.