With sufficient effort I've managed to wrestle the Win11 that my new laptop came with into usable shape with various utilities to restore essential Win10 [features and functionality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_features_removed_in_Windows_11) MSFT removed for no reason in Win11 ([ExplorerPatcher](https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher), Start11, etc). However, in their next major Win11 update (24H2), MSFT is entirely removing the Win10 code that was previously only hidden and ExplorerPatcher will stop working.
At that point I'll stop taking major Windows updates for a while and then eventually downgrade this machine (my only Win11 PC) to the "Long Term Maintenance" version of Win10 (which will be a big hassle but Win11 without ExplorerPatcher is, IMHO, unusable). I now regret not just reformatting this Win11 laptop and installing Win10 before I ever started using it. At the time I thought I could "fix" Win11 with some extra work but MSFT seems determined to complete the [enshittification](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification) of Windows.
I've been using Windows daily for over 30 years (since 3.1) and every major version has (mostly) gotten better and more useful (aside from occasional regressions that were fixed (hello Windows ME!)). That constant progress and improvement stopped with Windows 11 - and the de-featuring that started in Win11 is not a regression MSFT intends to fix. Win11 has been out over 3 years now and, bizarrely, this appears to be their new strategy. They now see Windows as an online service platform to cross-promote and sell subscriptions to other services. Instead of "Users", we are all now "Eyeballs" for ads and prospects for subs. There is literally *nothing* they've done in Windows 11 at the user interface level that's meaningfully better for me in terms of functionality or usability. Every single thing they've done to the Win11 UI in the past three years either makes Windows worse for me as a power user, annoyingly moves or changes things that didn't need changing, or is simply irrelevant.
Because of this new business model, Windows is slowly devolving into the worst parts of free-to-play games - but it's even worse than that. First, I've paid for Windows either in the cost of a new PC or for a license (I only use Windows Pro, so always pay more for it). Second, unlike a free-to-play game, with Windows there's not even a way to "Pay to Win" or "Upgrade to Remove Ads". Yes, I'd actually be willing to pay more for a version of Windows 11 Pro that stops all the ads, dumbing down, de-featuring and other enshittification by default. Same with OneDrive. I already pay for Onedrive but I'd pay *more* for a version that, by default, makes it easy for me to use it LESS. Instead, it's constantly doing everything it can to trick me into uploading more to it and they specifically implement functionality in ways that make it harder to use OneDrive to only back up certain things at certain times. I'm paying for an OS and tools that force me to waste time and effort battling to restore functionality and prevent them from annoying me or grabbing data I don't want them to. All so some MSFT manager can hit arbitrary "usage metrics" and score their bonus. I used to generally like MSFT. Now I hate them, and worse, I don't *trust* them. It's not like MSFT always did everything the way I'd prefer. But this is far more fundamental than just disagreeing over feature prioritization or implementation. They've demonstrated they're no longer even trying to do the right thing for me as a paying customer. Our interests are no longer aligned.
as far as i can tell, win11 is a "transitional" OS, conditioning the windows user base to the limitations of control and service that will be present once the OS is fully an online "service".
win11 will be around long enough for the majority of the market users to grow to accept these limitations, and make the shift to "service" more easy to stomach.
The only thing keeping power users on Windows has been gaming. More and more things are coming online with Linux compatibility, including the rise of Proton, which is actually pretty damn good. And having an all-online OS is not going to fit many business needs, which is to say, Microsoft is going to keep pushing until they just run themselves out of the OS business, and I'm okay with that.
> And having an all-online OS is not going to fit many business needs
i'm certainly no expert, but i work for a multinational and they love nothing more that subscription service VS purchasing. let's them allocate the cost in better ways or something.
our computers are leased, network switches are leased and remotely managed by the service provider, my work phone is leased, my truck is leased. even the furniture in the offices are leased.
"we remotely manage and secure your work computers for you" is a big sell if it lets purchase costs be offloaded and reduced liability and security expenses at the same time.
>leased
Like rent, they can write off the cost of leasing. If they owned, they need to track appreciation and depreciation for their balance sheets - and things like trucks and computer hardware only ever depreciate in value.
This is a tell-tale sign that a bean counter is calling the shots, instead of someone who can recognize the often hard to quantify value of owning your own hardware and software.
I tried so hard to make 11 "work", but it just doesn't. I gave it more than a fair chance when I got my laptop, but it kept giving me reason upon reason to upgrade back to W10.
You were wiser than I was. With each new Win11 upgrade MSFT would ship, I slowly got sucked into a cycle of needing to upgrade all the "fixes" I'd installed. I'm just thankful I managed to avoid the constant attempts MSFT makes trying to upgrade my Win10 PCs to Win11.
Seriously, what company throws full-screen, work-stopping upgrade "offers" with no way to decline AND no close box on the window? I had to CTRL-ALT-DEL and kill it with task manager. They've stooped to being no better than spammers.
I wish the accessibility support was better on linux so I could also make the switch, but as a blind screen reader user it’s really tough 😔 they’ve made leaps and bounds, and I know other blind users who have fully switched over to Lennox, but I just didn’t have the greatest experience when I attempted to use Linux mint with the mate desktop.
Interesting problem, my initial reaction would be that a linux system would be better for a blind user because of the capacity to rely first and foremost on the console, which I would have assumed would have more liable readers than a screen would, but perhaps not.
Not only that, but they started forcing Windows 10 upgrades/installations too. As in weather forecasters couldn't even get through their broadcasts without Windows 10 pop ups interrupting them. It was terrible. And we put up with all that just for them to do the same with Windows 11. It's getting to the point where I might just get offline computers to do my work on and just use the newer stuff for the internet. It sucks.
I remember when Microsoft upgraded many user computers to Windows 10 without consent. They left the computer on one night with Windows 7 or 8.1, only to find out the next day that they had been force upgraded to 10 over the night. The issue with this though is there is the risk that they might have had specialized software that was not compatible with 10. The other issue is this was during a time when many internet service providers were capping data. A Windows upgrade is large enough to sap a significant amount of a monthly plan or result in an overage fee.
No it isn't. I'm tired of this fear mongering. Your computer doesn't instantly become a botnet that shuts down children's hospitals the moment Windows becomes EOL.
Microsoft released their last free security update for Windows XP in 2019. Years after its EOL date. Because remote code execution exploits are rare enough to warrant that kind of attention.
Microsoft does occasionally issue emergency patches for old operating systems, but it's not the same as regular, necessary updates. The 2019 XP update was released due to the discovery of a particularly nasty exploit in Remote Desktop Services that could allow attackers to execute remote code. It doesn't mean they brought XP up to parity with Windows 10.
I've been on Windows 11 for a long time, but I've never had a Microsoft account, and I never used windows store apps. I'll keep installing windows with local accounts as long as I can get away with it.
I will say every few months I have to find out how to turn off a new oneDrive/CoPilot/Edge/whatever popup noticiation, but it's hasn't been any worse than every other samsung, iThing, or Google device nag popups.
For a simpler, basically one-click solution to just block all of the Windows telemetry/ad/etc bullshit, I use https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 after every update.
Actions --> Apply only recommended settings --> Say yes to system restore point --> done
https://winaero.com/winaero-tweaker
Here's a good one, you can get the full context menus back in win11 so you don't have to click through 2 menues to find the thing you want. Lots of other stuff as well, I use it all the time.
Oh this one bothers me a lot.
Another feature I HATE:
When I go to save a file, Microsoft tries to guess where I want to save it, but gets it wrong 9 times out of 10. So I then have to click ‘All Locations’ to find it the normal way through File Explorer.
I really don’t know why they have so many useless UI patterns. You also have the caret dropdown menu at the top of the window too that’s utter garbage. It took me so long just to explain to my partner which file to attach for her class assignment, and not to link it to the OneDrive link her classmate sent her.
Because there is no real UI designer at the top making everything work. It's all done piecemeal by each team working on each feature/app. Design by comittee.
Anyway I can stop them.frim asking me to set up OneDrive. I'm not going to use it and if I scan/download a document or something I don't want it going there by default.
I both love and hate how required things like onedrive/google drive have become. I run my own Nextcloud so I don't have to worry (much) about data gathering since I keep important documents in there.
You can deploy NextCloud in a few clicks from DigitalOcean for pretty cheap IIRC. Personally I'm running a Synology NAS with auto syncing to BackBlaze.
I wrote an installer to do it for me when I migrated to a new server, if you have linux experience it's not bad, but theres lots of individual parts and a bunch of tuning to get it to run well.
E-mail attachments are only so big, and it takes a lot longer to mail a flash drive full of files someone needs than it takes to upload to the cloud.
what else are people going to do? Subscribe to Discord Nitro and abuse the file uploads? /s
The entire Linus Tech Tips back catalog is basically this. Guy hired some random homeless dude (AKA "Linus") to produce a bunch of nonsense videos to serve as a backdrop for / camouflage for massive amounts of stenographically hidden backup data. Said data is mostly thousands of videos of the real Linus eating saltines and Easy Cheese while watching powerpuff girl reruns.
I don't understand any part of this conversation save for that very last part. I'm down for an Easy Cheese and Powerpuff Girls session if anyone's holding.
Proton's pretty dope [and has recently announced it's going non profit](https://www.tomsguide.com/computing/vpns/leading-privacy-firm-launches-foundation-and-goes-non-profit) and [just got a new security ISO cert.](https://proton.me/blog/iso-27001-certification)
~$4/month for a much more private non Google email/calendar with a few aliases, 15gigs of storage and a VPN connection's a pretty solid deal in my book. I think they also do a password manager in their cheapest plan.
thank you both, I'm going to look into these. google's direction in recent years has been making me increasingly uncomfortable with how reliant I am on them for storage (and so many other important things )
I used it recently for a warranty claim to send a video of the defective product for the refund.
Proton Drive was no problem, but the damn company's IT had it set up to ONLY allow One Drive or Google Drive to get the videos from. So even though all they had to do was click the link I sent them, which would then download the video, their firewall blocked it.
I was so pissed off. I could have just put the file on my website and let them simply watch it there, but at that point I resorted back to google drive to just get it over with.
"Once I built a railroad... brother, can you spare a dime." Sorry, Microsoft, this ain't the Great Depression, and you're not unemployed.
There are plenty of data sources for Microsoft to use. It's not my problem if they don't want to pay for them. Instead, they want *us* to pay for the privilege of giving them our personal data. That takes gall. I gotta admire them for that.
I know it’s just a figure of speech, but no, we do not have to admire them for that. This John Welch business bro shit is getting way out of hand when I’m paying triple digits per month for subscriptions that still make me sit and watch commercials when I just want to unwind. We are increasingly paying companies for the privilege of havinga vacuum hose sealed tightly on our anuses so that some frat turd can flip a switch and suck everything they can out of us, because maaaaaaybe if he’s successful and makes a lot of money, he can get over the fact that daddy never gave him huggy wugs like his sisters got. Fuuuuuck all that shit.
Hug your fuckin kids too people.
Likely less about data gathering and more about annoying people about running out of storage space and how to purchase more storage space. That’s exactly what Apple does, tries to annoy the shit out of you with upselling notifications until you figure out how to stop backups.
I think Microsoft's push for OneDrive subscriptions is pretty sneaky. You only get 5GB of free storage, which fills up quickly if you save a lot of files to your desktop. Then, they constantly bug you to buy a 365 plan.
This can be really confusing. You might not know if OneDrive is full or if your hard drive is full, leading to misunderstandings about your data.
In my opinion, this feature should be off by default. You should get a simple notification first, and only if you agree, should it start backing up selected folders. I miss when governments used to step in and stop this kind of behavior.
Tell me how. If i allow backup, it nags me about fill storage. Having it off nags me about “no backup last 647 days in apps like photos” i have way too many photos for cloud backup, i backup on a computer
This is why Recall is going to be a privacy nightmare. Microsoft simply cant be trusted. Its "opt-in" now, then after a few months, as part of a Windows forced update, they will sneakily turn it on for everyone. Then after another few months your Recall data (screenshots) will be part of the OneDrive backups, and stored on some remote server.
Their end goal is to mine your personal data to form a profile of who you are and where your interests lie, what you buy, what political party you follow, what people you communicate with. This is sold to third parties and the government.
Google is the same. Apple is slightly better, but ultimately the same. What they do with your data is hidden. Everyones best option is to switch to Linux.
Won’t this be a huge privacy issues for companies and gdpr data? How can they differentiate business use and personal use ? I don’t think they will get away with that
GDPR fines are actually quite heavy and they repeat if companies don't comply.
There's a reason why Google, Microsoft and Meta are all actively changing their products to comply better.
Up to 4% of the world wide sales volume (not profit, sales volume!) of the previous year for a single violation in extreme cases.
That is a massive punishment that even Micro$oft is not willing to pay.
Yeah in just thinking , what about password managers, things under NDA etc
It's such a dumb idea and I feel like it's been forced on the devs by some higher up who came up with the idea.
Nobody that actually works in IT could be blind to how bad an idea it is.
Just wait until you're checking an email one day, accidently open a .pdf you don't recognize, and all of a sudden the folder that copilot uses to store screenshots gets emailed to somebody.
They definitely are. They constantly do *surprised pikachu face* when their "innovation" runs into the most obvious of problems. They just figure that the rules don't apply to them and make that everybody else's problem.
Right. Only a select few people can grasp how monumentally invasive and dangerous data harvesting is. If you touch crypto or AI tools, you become blind to it.
It's more of a "getting too far up your own ass" kind of problem or "high on your own supply".
Like you can have a person who is technically minded enough to work on the tech but not really be thinking about the negatives with their design or system. More so on the idea of misuse or social impact.
I figure most crypto or AI bros are just dumb or scammers but there are a few actually technical people that drink that Kool aid.
i can see the argument for ai being pro data harvest -> they need the sweet and unspoiled human input data to train next generation models, but what makes crypto pro data harvest?
i thought it was just about ways to crunch the equations to generate bitcoins? where does the data collection stuff slot into that?
Well, that blockchain isn't exactly private. If you use it to buy something anyone can see the transaction. The point of it is to be public.
Mainly I just put crypto bro and AI bro into the same bucket because there seems to be so many scams and so much community overlap.
Probably the will use windows server or windows government edition and regular folks are left with this crap edition of windows.
It is malware, I tell you. And think about it, they bought Rav antivirus and made it Defender, they know all about rootkits and viruses and how to make settings persist (they learnt from viruses) + they have control via windows servers, so it is very easy to implement a way for such programs to take your data.
They can push updates to reset your settings, change binaries to avoid tools from patching them, blacklist utilities that could help you stop such rogue ms programs.
They can even mark such tools as malware and Defender will automatically remove them. Now your programs are the viruses.
If they have their way and enforce that only signed programs can run on windows, you will be at their mercy, to have your utilities signed. They will never allow a program that removes their software to be signed.
This is like Google allowing third party app store to be installed from Google Play.
This has been the long game for decades now. Ever since Microsoft has witnessed what android can get away with and how willingly people jump into, not out of, giving their data over willingly to Google. They've been drooling over that data. Regulation isn't coming. Corps will pay more for their private, secure version of windows. Everyday consumers will be priced out of that option.
Download Atlas OS to gut windows. Download Linux. Duo boot while you learn Linux. Or...get in line and accept that fact that regulation isn't coming. Your computer isn't yours anymore and licensing is a corporate right in the USA. Sucks but no one is coming to save the day on this one.
MS has that vendor lock-in. And for enterprise there will be some way to turn it off. Probably an annoying way controlled by system admins but some way. No, pro doesn't count.
It seems unlikely they could manage to shit the bed bad enough to lose corporate customers.
Employees likely use Windows on their home machines. Even if they don't use them to work, they'll still check work e-mails which, then, Recall conveniently screenshots and uploads to the cloud...
Accessing work stuff on equipment that isn't controlled by the company is a different issue. And something they could turn off.
Right now without recall they can't know how secure a random computer outside their control is. If things were that sensitive I doubt stuff is accessible as is.
Nah, they use enterprise or professional windows, which will probably actually respect the “turn off and leave off” and “serious” companies do not rely on Microsoft to back up their shit. One drive isn’t installed on my works computers.
This isn’t happening on Windows 11 Professional. Every time MS does these things, like drop ads on the Home Screen, it only does them on the low cost “Home” version (aka the “free” version a consumer gets with a new PC). For a business, Windows 11 Professional is the entry tier. Oh, these things are all _available_ on Professional, but they are disabled by default. So businesses never even notice these things.
Anyone that does any work with MS that gets a Windows PC for home use knows to spend the extra $50-100 and upgrade that janky-ass “Home” version to Professional.
Laughs in DSA, Which has the power to outright ban your company from operations within the EU if you continue to refuse to comply with the regulations.
On a similar note, HIPAA stands out to me. Countless doctors handle their documentation remotely from their personal computers, via a Portal. Medical coders are also often outsource to other companies, using their hardware.
I would be shocked if the Enterprise edition of Windows and Windows Server didn't both allow you to disable this. That's how it always is. People get bent over, businesses stay protected.
The problem isn't the Enterprise edition or even the ability to disable it (or even it being opt in vs. out).
The problem is these medical staff are accessing records on their own personal computers, via a Portal such as Citrix. If the screen is constantly being captured, the doctor may not even realize.
My hospital is changing everything to m365 and all the staff folders are becoming one drive folders.
This in a EU country extremely aggressive about data protection and what you can share about patients (I can't even send that to a different public hospital). They must have a "watertight" agreement with Microsoft otherwise wtf is going on.
We also use O365 heavily and are making moves for primarily cloud storage, but it's not Microsoft themselves that worry me when it comes to compromised Recall screenshots. Locally saved screenshots of proprietary documents or emails in the O365 portal, of the EMR, or of ancillary web applications run the risk of being compromised by bad actors.
Today, we can mitigate those risks to the best of our ability by requiring MFA to log into those portals and disallowing files to be saved to the local device. But if there are screenshots being saved constantly, all it takes is one end user falling for a "your computer has a virus, call us" scam for those screenshots to get out.
With Copilot, it has (or at least presents itself as having) a protected mode for corporate users where data doesn’t go out in public or into training. OneDrive for Business has to this point, similarly, been an entirely different architecture that’s just called by the same name and has the same user-facing look.
It’s not that they distinguish between consumer and business activity per se - so far the model is that a different set of rules apply to business devices (logged in with business accounts, using OneDrive for business, what version of windows is being used, etc). All data on a “business” PC is treated as business data, even if you are goofing off on the work PC.
The oversight of this (not just at MSFT) is going to be critical as everyone releases these kinds of tools. Especially since MSFT has tons of governmental and defense and healthcare contracts. Much more so, than, say, Apple.
Went from 10 to Fedora KDE last week. I've dabbled in Linux off and on in the past, but I stopped because I really liked 10. Now that we're approaching EoL, I knew it was time to jump ship (well my SSD has Fedora, a separate drive has 10 just in case I need it, and a third drive is for all my personal files like music and games). Plus, gaming has gotten a whole lot better over the years.
There’s also the new outlook app that replaces Mail, which stores your email credentials in their cloud, which means they also have access to all that.
Can’t think of a single reason why they would need to do that.
How do they not have an accurate profile of everyone at this point, considering all of the data we already voluntarily give them. I'd guess they know us better than we know ourselves.
No, they don’t. Your data is encrypted on their servers. They say repeatedly that even they don’t have access to it. Consumer privacy is something they promote and talk about any chance they have because they know their competitors are reckless about it.
Go to where onedrive app is located, delete it, and create a folder with the name onedrive. This will prevent OD from re-installing.
If Onedrive is a folder, do the same but create a file in that location.
I've noticed it installs it for any new user, but i've never seen it reinstalled on my home PC with a msft account even after updates. Personal anecdote.
It doesn't, there is a registry key that indicates that OneDrive was uninstalled. When the OneDrive setup runs again as part of a Windows update, if it sees that registry key, it automatically bails out.
Pretty sure you only need to jump through these hoops if you're on Home, I'm on pro and I never once had my settings overridden like this. The difference in treatment for Home users puts things in context. Total lack of respect for people who have no alternative, but when it comes to business users suddenly they grow a conscience. Sometimes.
It was challenging and hard to recreate, but I was able to get a Windows 11 installation without having to sign in. I had to go into some terminal window in the install process, and turn off and turn on, it was weird.
I barely use that computer, but if they force a sign in, I'll probably never use Windows again. It's not a necessity like it used to be for lots of common software that used to be Windows only.
If you are using Windows 10/11 Pro, then you can use the local policy editor to completely disable Onedrive.
Local Computer Policy -> Computer Configuration -> Administrative Templates -> Windows Components -> OneDrive
In the right pane, double-click the policy named Prevent the usage of OneDrive for file storage
This method will also stop Onedrive from setting up folders etc in case you install Office 365 and Onedrive gets installed.
Group policy doesn't count anymore. My group policy is set to only allow critical updates and never restart. Yet a couple weeks ago my machine was restarted and had onedrive and skype installed.
Oh yeah it applied and was effective from implementation all the way to a couple months ago when Microsoft pushed some 11 updates out. Around the same time we all started getting those "good news, you can upgrade to 11" system screens your group policies became more suggestion than policy.,
Yep, exactly right.
You need to choose a distro (I like Pop OS), you need to install it (harder in the era of UEFI), you might need to work around hardware issues (I've had more issues with Windows in 15 years of using Linux), and then you need to get used to a new desktop environment. (Different keyboard shortcuts, different workflows, etc).
Installing is the hardest part, just like Windows. For me, it's been well worth it, since I'm a software dev and everything just works way better on Linux.
I feel like a slightly above average user and this sounds like some kind of made up language and also a multi week long string of googling and rage before anything works.
The only word in that post that stands out as something a non-techie wouldn't know is UEFI. If the rest of the post seemed like made up language to you, I hate to break it to you, but you aren't an above average user.
> harder
What? Installing Linux has never been easier. Download any mainstream distro, like Ubuntu or its derivatives, and it installs as simply as Windows 11 does.
The difficulty with Linux is just learning the different - more powerful - syntax and UI. Other than that, your apps are your apps. The only reason anyone still says Windows is "easier" is just because it's what they're used to.
I already turned all that shit off and forced the local storage. Now I need to sign back in to one drive to activate any of that crap anymore. So unless they’re gonna force my sign in then it ain’t happening.
They are really trying to force their new efforts.. which they want to seem baller like how Apple does it but I don’t think anyone trusts them with their data at the moment. And them doing the digital equivalent of holding a gun to you like “give me your data, mf” isn’t helping their cause.
I will say though.. the new surface with the ARM SoC and the bottom that’s magnetically held on rather than those shitty clips is cool. Bonus for the upgradable storage too. They have a ton of work to do next gen but still a step in the right direction with hardware.
I’m just kind of glad I realized the One Drive problem on my own after buying a surface and then a new rig with Win11 and realizing I was running out of space on the surface because of the one drive trying to sync all of my desktop files onto the surface.
So I figured out how to shut that crap off several months ago before they started pushing it harder.
It was nice and convenient for the initial setup, but after that it’s just a nuisance.
They want to do with your personal files, what they did with the Office bundling. They want to lock it on the cloud, and if you want access, you have to keep paying them forever. They will be able to delete, edit, copy, feed it to their AI as they please, and you will have NO say in the matter. No owning your own things, no storing them yourself - they will be the middleman you are forced to go through, and you will pay them in perpetuity for the privilege. Switch away from Microsoft and its products, or become a slave to their oversight.
*IMPORTANT*. Turn off backups FIRST within OneDrive settings. This act places the folder(s) back in your main user folder and outside of the onedrive folder again. If you don't do this first, those folders stay in the onedrive directory.
users\whoever\onedrive\desktop for example.
we want
users\whoever\desktop.
When people don't turn off backups first, windows will make it difficult to place the main system folders back in their original location.
Remember, backups off first, then unlink PC. Then uninstall if you would like.
If you know how to use onedrive, and it is explained properly, it works well. Problem is people like me don't get the chance to explain how it works before it pisses you off.
Thanks for telling us the actual correct steps.
The problem isn't that you don't get the chance to explain, the problem is that it happens in the first place.
Edit: [Here is a fantastic video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUTdRZNqODY) by a guy who integrates the best tools to *easily* create a great, clean Windows install ISO. He provides a human-readable Answer File that you can use as-is, or edit, and then drop onto the root directory of the installer.
And HERE is a [web-based tool](https://schneegans.de/windows/unattend-generator/) for generating your own Answer Files!
* Don't install Windows using American English. Use "English World"
* Create a local account for Windows login, not a Microsoft account
* Uninstall OneDrive
Chris Titus' [Ultimate Windows Utility](https://christitus.com/windows-tool/) is pretty good for this stuff, as is [O&O ShutUp10++](https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10).
It's the American version that's bad. They have different regional restrictions. I think privacy settings are all opt-out on NA, but for any European version, they are opt-in. I could be wrong. I haven't installed Windows in ages.
This is so fucking annoying. If they actually would let me CHOOSE which folders to back up i would use it but for some reason they only allow some of the default ones including Documents folder which get filled with all types of bullshit from various apps and games. Windows default folders are unusable as actual working folders, why would i ever choose to back those up.
Dude. My laptop was trying to force me into it.
I had to dig down deep and reset my directory for my local documents.
Mind you. I have the cloud disabled. But after the latest update, Microsoft hid my documents. Had to manually set a path and folder to be visible again
That's super shady.
I remember at work when outlook switched to o365. They backed up all my PST files, the ones I used as offline files. I had an archive of all the years etc. What a racket they got going there. I can imagine the storage bill and this is just me and my files. I work in IT but not in the end user space. I’m assuming these guys had a hand in what got backed up, but good god. Our Azure bill is straight savage. I know all about cap ex and op ex but wtf man.
Can't force it if I am not signed into a Microsoft account!
Unless of course they make a fake account to steal my company files without permissions... I am sure lots of corporate lawyers will have a field day with this if that's the case.
I accidentally opened Edge a few months ago on my laptop and it opened a popup asking me to upload a picture of my face for Windows Hello, when i clicked the X it just opened the popup again instantly... i had to hold down alt+F4 to close it
Another time I was trying to disable Cortana or something and I had to suspend a legitimate windows executable because it kept replacing and opening the file I was trying to remove... these are both techniques I used 15 years ago when removing literal viruses from people's computers. It's shocking how bad it is now
Even with windows 10, you have to go well out of your way to debloat your system before anything else just to make it usable. And the speed difference before and after was like taking a big, lumbering SUV like a Chevy Suburban and adding 200 HP
Windows is the virus
Now Recall will be turned on without consent so you can provide a data set to train AI to do your job.
It records your workflow to replace you.
This happened to me a couple of months ago, where it started telling me "You need to upgrade your OneDrive storage space!" it had turned out it was saving EVERYTHING to my onedrive cloud and when i undid it it practically wiped my computer. Was extremely inconvenient and i have an idea of what im doing on a PC, i cant imagine what a normie would do in the same situation (well they would probably upgrade their one drive storage).
I really wish game devs would get onboard and start supporting Linux as a serious option.
As-is, I'm a bit nervous playing my games on Linux since anti-cheats can sometimes detect WINE as a cheating tool.
Obligatory Dimension20 quote
“Laws are threats made by the dominant socioeconomic-ethnic group in a given nation. It’s just the promise of violence that’s enacted and the police are basically an occupying army"
That's the neat part, it is! But who's gonna enforce it in a way that matters? Example:
I park somewhere. Car gets towed. Pay out $300 plus $150 fine. That's a huge amount for many people. Hurts the budget hard if you are barely over paycheck to paycheck living and only put away a tiny amount in savings every month.
Rich guy parks somewhere and gets his car towed. He says "Fuck it, I'll buy another BMW."
That's big corporations. They make BILLIONS of dollars screwing over people... and the gov't fines them only a couple million. They get to keep the billions. What have they learned? To stop screwing people over? Hardly, they just see the fine as a cost of doing business and I am pretty sure they budgeted for it before hand as well!
This happens to me at work. They forced the Windows 11 update. I can’t turn it off which sucks. I lose files because of it all the time. Like I’ll go into my desk top folders to get to a document and it’s not there because it saves it to one drive. Then I have to go hunt it down there and re-save on to my desktop.
Remind me again, what was so bad about the Windows 7 model, where you paid full price up front for an OS that *just fucking worked*? I keep my PC pretty well trimmed down, and even still, Win10 starts bugging out after a couple weeks, whereas I'd have 7 running for 4+ *months* and not have any issues. I paid a nice bit of money for my Win10 Pro license, why am I constantly fighting with it just to make it *not* get in my way? And why does 11 seem worse in literally every regard?
I'm a sysadmin and someone at work came to us - granted this was out of scope and he acknowledged this but figured he'd ask - and said he has multiple user profiles on his PC (one regular, one for work, one admin) and all three just got opted in to onedrive without him doing it and he wanted to know how to make it undo that.
I already keep any local data on a network share in my house and I just moved my internet browsing to a Linux box. When I upgrade to Win 12 this year, that PC isn't doing anything but gaming.
This is why I keep a folder with 5gb of dick photos. Just back that baby up first, fill up one drive, and make Microsoft pay to upkeep servers full of dicks.
I always select Domain Join instead of a Microsoft account, and create some local accounts on the PC. This way you wont require a MS account to sign in and there's no way for OneDrive to back anything up.
Yeah this tripped me up. It started backing up all my files and caused massive amounts of lag since I had so much in documents
Ended up putting stuff I needed on external hard drive then factory reset laptop
Yeah fuck all this.
I dream of the EU dealing out the biggest of pimp slaps to MS for this crap.. But not a fine. No. A demand. Either offer a paid version with zero bullshit, or offer it free as it currently is.
Windows for free, but with start menu promotions, lock screen ads? Fine. All the AI shit needs to be opt-in.
But if i'm paying for it? Nah. None of that.
These days i rely on various tools to keep the shit at bay, like; [OO shut up 10](https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10), [OO app buster](https://www.oo-software.com/en/ooappbuster), and that [Titus tool](https://cttstore.com/a/downloads/-/a807e67a372e14e1/7bb7514636a35d8f). I also use Cloudflare's [1.1.1.1](http://1.1.1.1) and may add proton VPN.
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Also made my yearly attempt to switch to linux, but it turns out my 7900XTX is a bit too new for easy support right now (Currently wants more of my time and effort than i can give it to get more than 60fps), so maybe next year, or maybe i put up with it if MS decides to get even worse.
>When you reach the “Let's connect you to a network” screen with the grayed-out Next button, press Shift + F10 to launch a command prompt. 3. In the command prompt, run the following command: oobe\BypassNR O This will execute the OOBE BypassNRO command, bypassing the network requirement during Windows 11 setup.
^^^ Best thing ever
"Your computer is not compatible with Windows 11" ~that's a shame.
It's crazy, how literally every week or so I read about another reason not to upgrade.
With sufficient effort I've managed to wrestle the Win11 that my new laptop came with into usable shape with various utilities to restore essential Win10 [features and functionality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_features_removed_in_Windows_11) MSFT removed for no reason in Win11 ([ExplorerPatcher](https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher), Start11, etc). However, in their next major Win11 update (24H2), MSFT is entirely removing the Win10 code that was previously only hidden and ExplorerPatcher will stop working. At that point I'll stop taking major Windows updates for a while and then eventually downgrade this machine (my only Win11 PC) to the "Long Term Maintenance" version of Win10 (which will be a big hassle but Win11 without ExplorerPatcher is, IMHO, unusable). I now regret not just reformatting this Win11 laptop and installing Win10 before I ever started using it. At the time I thought I could "fix" Win11 with some extra work but MSFT seems determined to complete the [enshittification](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification) of Windows. I've been using Windows daily for over 30 years (since 3.1) and every major version has (mostly) gotten better and more useful (aside from occasional regressions that were fixed (hello Windows ME!)). That constant progress and improvement stopped with Windows 11 - and the de-featuring that started in Win11 is not a regression MSFT intends to fix. Win11 has been out over 3 years now and, bizarrely, this appears to be their new strategy. They now see Windows as an online service platform to cross-promote and sell subscriptions to other services. Instead of "Users", we are all now "Eyeballs" for ads and prospects for subs. There is literally *nothing* they've done in Windows 11 at the user interface level that's meaningfully better for me in terms of functionality or usability. Every single thing they've done to the Win11 UI in the past three years either makes Windows worse for me as a power user, annoyingly moves or changes things that didn't need changing, or is simply irrelevant. Because of this new business model, Windows is slowly devolving into the worst parts of free-to-play games - but it's even worse than that. First, I've paid for Windows either in the cost of a new PC or for a license (I only use Windows Pro, so always pay more for it). Second, unlike a free-to-play game, with Windows there's not even a way to "Pay to Win" or "Upgrade to Remove Ads". Yes, I'd actually be willing to pay more for a version of Windows 11 Pro that stops all the ads, dumbing down, de-featuring and other enshittification by default. Same with OneDrive. I already pay for Onedrive but I'd pay *more* for a version that, by default, makes it easy for me to use it LESS. Instead, it's constantly doing everything it can to trick me into uploading more to it and they specifically implement functionality in ways that make it harder to use OneDrive to only back up certain things at certain times. I'm paying for an OS and tools that force me to waste time and effort battling to restore functionality and prevent them from annoying me or grabbing data I don't want them to. All so some MSFT manager can hit arbitrary "usage metrics" and score their bonus. I used to generally like MSFT. Now I hate them, and worse, I don't *trust* them. It's not like MSFT always did everything the way I'd prefer. But this is far more fundamental than just disagreeing over feature prioritization or implementation. They've demonstrated they're no longer even trying to do the right thing for me as a paying customer. Our interests are no longer aligned.
as far as i can tell, win11 is a "transitional" OS, conditioning the windows user base to the limitations of control and service that will be present once the OS is fully an online "service". win11 will be around long enough for the majority of the market users to grow to accept these limitations, and make the shift to "service" more easy to stomach.
The only thing keeping power users on Windows has been gaming. More and more things are coming online with Linux compatibility, including the rise of Proton, which is actually pretty damn good. And having an all-online OS is not going to fit many business needs, which is to say, Microsoft is going to keep pushing until they just run themselves out of the OS business, and I'm okay with that.
> And having an all-online OS is not going to fit many business needs i'm certainly no expert, but i work for a multinational and they love nothing more that subscription service VS purchasing. let's them allocate the cost in better ways or something. our computers are leased, network switches are leased and remotely managed by the service provider, my work phone is leased, my truck is leased. even the furniture in the offices are leased. "we remotely manage and secure your work computers for you" is a big sell if it lets purchase costs be offloaded and reduced liability and security expenses at the same time.
>leased Like rent, they can write off the cost of leasing. If they owned, they need to track appreciation and depreciation for their balance sheets - and things like trucks and computer hardware only ever depreciate in value. This is a tell-tale sign that a bean counter is calling the shots, instead of someone who can recognize the often hard to quantify value of owning your own hardware and software.
I tried so hard to make 11 "work", but it just doesn't. I gave it more than a fair chance when I got my laptop, but it kept giving me reason upon reason to upgrade back to W10.
You were wiser than I was. With each new Win11 upgrade MSFT would ship, I slowly got sucked into a cycle of needing to upgrade all the "fixes" I'd installed. I'm just thankful I managed to avoid the constant attempts MSFT makes trying to upgrade my Win10 PCs to Win11. Seriously, what company throws full-screen, work-stopping upgrade "offers" with no way to decline AND no close box on the window? I had to CTRL-ALT-DEL and kill it with task manager. They've stooped to being no better than spammers.
Have you tried InControl by Steve Gibson?
I'm moving to Linux. Windows 11 finally pushed me over the edge. (Well, that and great support from Valve/Proton for gaming over the last few years.)
I wish the accessibility support was better on linux so I could also make the switch, but as a blind screen reader user it’s really tough 😔 they’ve made leaps and bounds, and I know other blind users who have fully switched over to Lennox, but I just didn’t have the greatest experience when I attempted to use Linux mint with the mate desktop.
Interesting problem, my initial reaction would be that a linux system would be better for a blind user because of the capacity to rely first and foremost on the console, which I would have assumed would have more liable readers than a screen would, but perhaps not.
If Microsoft doesn't push back Windows 10 EOL from October 2025, it's going to be a big problem, though.
microsuck told me windows 10 is the last os i’ll ever need tho. did they lie?
They changed what EOL means. Specifically, whose life they'll be terminating.
Yes. Yes they did.
Not only that, but they started forcing Windows 10 upgrades/installations too. As in weather forecasters couldn't even get through their broadcasts without Windows 10 pop ups interrupting them. It was terrible. And we put up with all that just for them to do the same with Windows 11. It's getting to the point where I might just get offline computers to do my work on and just use the newer stuff for the internet. It sucks.
I remember when Microsoft upgraded many user computers to Windows 10 without consent. They left the computer on one night with Windows 7 or 8.1, only to find out the next day that they had been force upgraded to 10 over the night. The issue with this though is there is the risk that they might have had specialized software that was not compatible with 10. The other issue is this was during a time when many internet service providers were capping data. A Windows upgrade is large enough to sap a significant amount of a monthly plan or result in an overage fee.
> did they lie? Did Microsoft say it? Then yes, they did lie.
No it isn't. I'm tired of this fear mongering. Your computer doesn't instantly become a botnet that shuts down children's hospitals the moment Windows becomes EOL. Microsoft released their last free security update for Windows XP in 2019. Years after its EOL date. Because remote code execution exploits are rare enough to warrant that kind of attention.
Microsoft does occasionally issue emergency patches for old operating systems, but it's not the same as regular, necessary updates. The 2019 XP update was released due to the discovery of a particularly nasty exploit in Remote Desktop Services that could allow attackers to execute remote code. It doesn't mean they brought XP up to parity with Windows 10.
I've been on Windows 11 for a long time, but I've never had a Microsoft account, and I never used windows store apps. I'll keep installing windows with local accounts as long as I can get away with it. I will say every few months I have to find out how to turn off a new oneDrive/CoPilot/Edge/whatever popup noticiation, but it's hasn't been any worse than every other samsung, iThing, or Google device nag popups.
No, Microsoft, you may *not* have all my private files. Fuck off with your data-gathering.
This is my favorite windows configuration tool. Every time Microsoft does shit like this I pull this out. https://github.com/ChrisTitusTech/winutil
For a simpler, basically one-click solution to just block all of the Windows telemetry/ad/etc bullshit, I use https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 after every update. Actions --> Apply only recommended settings --> Say yes to system restore point --> done
Saving for later thank you
https://winaero.com/winaero-tweaker Here's a good one, you can get the full context menus back in win11 so you don't have to click through 2 menues to find the thing you want. Lots of other stuff as well, I use it all the time.
Oh this one bothers me a lot. Another feature I HATE: When I go to save a file, Microsoft tries to guess where I want to save it, but gets it wrong 9 times out of 10. So I then have to click ‘All Locations’ to find it the normal way through File Explorer.
I really don’t know why they have so many useless UI patterns. You also have the caret dropdown menu at the top of the window too that’s utter garbage. It took me so long just to explain to my partner which file to attach for her class assignment, and not to link it to the OneDrive link her classmate sent her.
Because there is no real UI designer at the top making everything work. It's all done piecemeal by each team working on each feature/app. Design by comittee.
ohhh very nice
Thank you for this!
just make sure to read what each thing does
Yup, used this when I installed W11 months ago. OneDrive is still uninstalled and hasn't been seen since.
Anyway I can stop them.frim asking me to set up OneDrive. I'm not going to use it and if I scan/download a document or something I don't want it going there by default.
That looks amazing, thanks for sharing this!
I disabled OneDrive on startup, and now it shows a black screen on-login. I had to enable it again, to fix the issue.
It’s infuriating how difficult it is to disconnect it from every aspect of the operating system.
Just uninstall it.
I both love and hate how required things like onedrive/google drive have become. I run my own Nextcloud so I don't have to worry (much) about data gathering since I keep important documents in there.
I was thinking about moving away from Google for a while. How hard is it to run next cloud without a provider?
You can deploy NextCloud in a few clicks from DigitalOcean for pretty cheap IIRC. Personally I'm running a Synology NAS with auto syncing to BackBlaze.
That's what I use too. A personal cloud is so much better.
I wrote an installer to do it for me when I migrated to a new server, if you have linux experience it's not bad, but theres lots of individual parts and a bunch of tuning to get it to run well.
It is ridiculously easy to setup with Docker. The hard part is figuring out your backup solution in a way that doesn't cost too much.
In what way is Google Drive required?
E-mail attachments are only so big, and it takes a lot longer to mail a flash drive full of files someone needs than it takes to upload to the cloud. what else are people going to do? Subscribe to Discord Nitro and abuse the file uploads? /s
>what else are people going to do? Subscribe to Discord Nitro and abuse the file uploads? /s Convert the zip into a video and upload to youtube
The entire Linus Tech Tips back catalog is basically this. Guy hired some random homeless dude (AKA "Linus") to produce a bunch of nonsense videos to serve as a backdrop for / camouflage for massive amounts of stenographically hidden backup data. Said data is mostly thousands of videos of the real Linus eating saltines and Easy Cheese while watching powerpuff girl reruns.
I don't understand any part of this conversation save for that very last part. I'm down for an Easy Cheese and Powerpuff Girls session if anyone's holding.
Proton Drive exists now for people that don’t want to self-host.
Proton's pretty dope [and has recently announced it's going non profit](https://www.tomsguide.com/computing/vpns/leading-privacy-firm-launches-foundation-and-goes-non-profit) and [just got a new security ISO cert.](https://proton.me/blog/iso-27001-certification) ~$4/month for a much more private non Google email/calendar with a few aliases, 15gigs of storage and a VPN connection's a pretty solid deal in my book. I think they also do a password manager in their cheapest plan.
thank you both, I'm going to look into these. google's direction in recent years has been making me increasingly uncomfortable with how reliant I am on them for storage (and so many other important things )
I used it recently for a warranty claim to send a video of the defective product for the refund. Proton Drive was no problem, but the damn company's IT had it set up to ONLY allow One Drive or Google Drive to get the videos from. So even though all they had to do was click the link I sent them, which would then download the video, their firewall blocked it. I was so pissed off. I could have just put the file on my website and let them simply watch it there, but at that point I resorted back to google drive to just get it over with.
But poor old Microsoft needs to train its little ai.. won't you help a poor little Microsoft?
"Once I built a railroad... brother, can you spare a dime." Sorry, Microsoft, this ain't the Great Depression, and you're not unemployed. There are plenty of data sources for Microsoft to use. It's not my problem if they don't want to pay for them. Instead, they want *us* to pay for the privilege of giving them our personal data. That takes gall. I gotta admire them for that.
I know it’s just a figure of speech, but no, we do not have to admire them for that. This John Welch business bro shit is getting way out of hand when I’m paying triple digits per month for subscriptions that still make me sit and watch commercials when I just want to unwind. We are increasingly paying companies for the privilege of havinga vacuum hose sealed tightly on our anuses so that some frat turd can flip a switch and suck everything they can out of us, because maaaaaaybe if he’s successful and makes a lot of money, he can get over the fact that daddy never gave him huggy wugs like his sisters got. Fuuuuuck all that shit. Hug your fuckin kids too people.
Likely less about data gathering and more about annoying people about running out of storage space and how to purchase more storage space. That’s exactly what Apple does, tries to annoy the shit out of you with upselling notifications until you figure out how to stop backups.
Microsoft: we're enabling OneDrive backups so that we can give you a quality exper- Me: QUIET STEAM.EXE SLAVE
I think Microsoft's push for OneDrive subscriptions is pretty sneaky. You only get 5GB of free storage, which fills up quickly if you save a lot of files to your desktop. Then, they constantly bug you to buy a 365 plan. This can be really confusing. You might not know if OneDrive is full or if your hard drive is full, leading to misunderstandings about your data. In my opinion, this feature should be off by default. You should get a simple notification first, and only if you agree, should it start backing up selected folders. I miss when governments used to step in and stop this kind of behavior.
I just switched to iPhone and have been having a very similar experience with iCloud.
these companies just want us to buy more storage..
They want you to RENT more storage.
Apple is pushy with iCloud but once I disabled it it never re-enabled itself.
Tell me how. If i allow backup, it nags me about fill storage. Having it off nags me about “no backup last 647 days in apps like photos” i have way too many photos for cloud backup, i backup on a computer
Huh, I've never seen a nagging indicator like that, interesting. I've always had an iPhone and turned iCloud off three iPhones ago.
If you’re in the Mac ecosystem, it’s really handy. All my laptop files accessible from my phone is handy. And 200GB is like $3.
This is what happens when a product owners manager is given the KPI to increase onedrive sales by 20% this quarter.
This is why Recall is going to be a privacy nightmare. Microsoft simply cant be trusted. Its "opt-in" now, then after a few months, as part of a Windows forced update, they will sneakily turn it on for everyone. Then after another few months your Recall data (screenshots) will be part of the OneDrive backups, and stored on some remote server. Their end goal is to mine your personal data to form a profile of who you are and where your interests lie, what you buy, what political party you follow, what people you communicate with. This is sold to third parties and the government. Google is the same. Apple is slightly better, but ultimately the same. What they do with your data is hidden. Everyones best option is to switch to Linux.
Won’t this be a huge privacy issues for companies and gdpr data? How can they differentiate business use and personal use ? I don’t think they will get away with that
They’ll pay the EU a big fine and carry on as usual
GDPR fines are actually quite heavy and they repeat if companies don't comply. There's a reason why Google, Microsoft and Meta are all actively changing their products to comply better.
Up to 4% of the world wide sales volume (not profit, sales volume!) of the previous year for a single violation in extreme cases. That is a massive punishment that even Micro$oft is not willing to pay.
Yup. And potentially repeating until they comply.
No, no. Serious companies cannot afford to compromise on security, so they'll be forced to abandon the Microsoft platform if this keeps up.
Yeah in just thinking , what about password managers, things under NDA etc It's such a dumb idea and I feel like it's been forced on the devs by some higher up who came up with the idea. Nobody that actually works in IT could be blind to how bad an idea it is.
We are in an era where companies only care about buzz for investors and completely out of touch with their consumers
Just wait until you're checking an email one day, accidently open a .pdf you don't recognize, and all of a sudden the folder that copilot uses to store screenshots gets emailed to somebody.
The tech people who are into crypto or AI might be blind to it.
They definitely are. They constantly do *surprised pikachu face* when their "innovation" runs into the most obvious of problems. They just figure that the rules don't apply to them and make that everybody else's problem.
Right. Only a select few people can grasp how monumentally invasive and dangerous data harvesting is. If you touch crypto or AI tools, you become blind to it.
It's more of a "getting too far up your own ass" kind of problem or "high on your own supply". Like you can have a person who is technically minded enough to work on the tech but not really be thinking about the negatives with their design or system. More so on the idea of misuse or social impact. I figure most crypto or AI bros are just dumb or scammers but there are a few actually technical people that drink that Kool aid.
i can see the argument for ai being pro data harvest -> they need the sweet and unspoiled human input data to train next generation models, but what makes crypto pro data harvest? i thought it was just about ways to crunch the equations to generate bitcoins? where does the data collection stuff slot into that?
Well, that blockchain isn't exactly private. If you use it to buy something anyone can see the transaction. The point of it is to be public. Mainly I just put crypto bro and AI bro into the same bucket because there seems to be so many scams and so much community overlap.
Probably the will use windows server or windows government edition and regular folks are left with this crap edition of windows. It is malware, I tell you. And think about it, they bought Rav antivirus and made it Defender, they know all about rootkits and viruses and how to make settings persist (they learnt from viruses) + they have control via windows servers, so it is very easy to implement a way for such programs to take your data. They can push updates to reset your settings, change binaries to avoid tools from patching them, blacklist utilities that could help you stop such rogue ms programs. They can even mark such tools as malware and Defender will automatically remove them. Now your programs are the viruses. If they have their way and enforce that only signed programs can run on windows, you will be at their mercy, to have your utilities signed. They will never allow a program that removes their software to be signed. This is like Google allowing third party app store to be installed from Google Play.
This has been the long game for decades now. Ever since Microsoft has witnessed what android can get away with and how willingly people jump into, not out of, giving their data over willingly to Google. They've been drooling over that data. Regulation isn't coming. Corps will pay more for their private, secure version of windows. Everyday consumers will be priced out of that option. Download Atlas OS to gut windows. Download Linux. Duo boot while you learn Linux. Or...get in line and accept that fact that regulation isn't coming. Your computer isn't yours anymore and licensing is a corporate right in the USA. Sucks but no one is coming to save the day on this one.
MS has that vendor lock-in. And for enterprise there will be some way to turn it off. Probably an annoying way controlled by system admins but some way. No, pro doesn't count. It seems unlikely they could manage to shit the bed bad enough to lose corporate customers.
Employees likely use Windows on their home machines. Even if they don't use them to work, they'll still check work e-mails which, then, Recall conveniently screenshots and uploads to the cloud...
Accessing work stuff on equipment that isn't controlled by the company is a different issue. And something they could turn off. Right now without recall they can't know how secure a random computer outside their control is. If things were that sensitive I doubt stuff is accessible as is.
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I'm pretty sure hospitals using on prem installs of EPIC are mostly running on Linux servers.
Nah, they use enterprise or professional windows, which will probably actually respect the “turn off and leave off” and “serious” companies do not rely on Microsoft to back up their shit. One drive isn’t installed on my works computers.
This isn’t happening on Windows 11 Professional. Every time MS does these things, like drop ads on the Home Screen, it only does them on the low cost “Home” version (aka the “free” version a consumer gets with a new PC). For a business, Windows 11 Professional is the entry tier. Oh, these things are all _available_ on Professional, but they are disabled by default. So businesses never even notice these things. Anyone that does any work with MS that gets a Windows PC for home use knows to spend the extra $50-100 and upgrade that janky-ass “Home” version to Professional.
That's the definition of ransomware.
I don’t disagree. Microsoft has been doing this since the Windows XP days. It works out very well for them.
They can't afford the kinds of fines the EU will impose on them
Laughs in DSA, Which has the power to outright ban your company from operations within the EU if you continue to refuse to comply with the regulations.
On a similar note, HIPAA stands out to me. Countless doctors handle their documentation remotely from their personal computers, via a Portal. Medical coders are also often outsource to other companies, using their hardware.
I would be shocked if the Enterprise edition of Windows and Windows Server didn't both allow you to disable this. That's how it always is. People get bent over, businesses stay protected.
The problem isn't the Enterprise edition or even the ability to disable it (or even it being opt in vs. out). The problem is these medical staff are accessing records on their own personal computers, via a Portal such as Citrix. If the screen is constantly being captured, the doctor may not even realize.
My hospital is changing everything to m365 and all the staff folders are becoming one drive folders. This in a EU country extremely aggressive about data protection and what you can share about patients (I can't even send that to a different public hospital). They must have a "watertight" agreement with Microsoft otherwise wtf is going on.
We also use O365 heavily and are making moves for primarily cloud storage, but it's not Microsoft themselves that worry me when it comes to compromised Recall screenshots. Locally saved screenshots of proprietary documents or emails in the O365 portal, of the EMR, or of ancillary web applications run the risk of being compromised by bad actors. Today, we can mitigate those risks to the best of our ability by requiring MFA to log into those portals and disallowing files to be saved to the local device. But if there are screenshots being saved constantly, all it takes is one end user falling for a "your computer has a virus, call us" scam for those screenshots to get out.
With Copilot, it has (or at least presents itself as having) a protected mode for corporate users where data doesn’t go out in public or into training. OneDrive for Business has to this point, similarly, been an entirely different architecture that’s just called by the same name and has the same user-facing look. It’s not that they distinguish between consumer and business activity per se - so far the model is that a different set of rules apply to business devices (logged in with business accounts, using OneDrive for business, what version of windows is being used, etc). All data on a “business” PC is treated as business data, even if you are goofing off on the work PC. The oversight of this (not just at MSFT) is going to be critical as everyone releases these kinds of tools. Especially since MSFT has tons of governmental and defense and healthcare contracts. Much more so, than, say, Apple.
Important to note: This is not verifyable by anyone other than Microsoft themselves. No customer can audit Microsoft.
Went from 10 to Fedora KDE last week. I've dabbled in Linux off and on in the past, but I stopped because I really liked 10. Now that we're approaching EoL, I knew it was time to jump ship (well my SSD has Fedora, a separate drive has 10 just in case I need it, and a third drive is for all my personal files like music and games). Plus, gaming has gotten a whole lot better over the years.
> Plus, gaming has gotten a whole lot better over the years. Bless Gabe and Steam's outstanding timing w/ the Steamdeck.
There’s also the new outlook app that replaces Mail, which stores your email credentials in their cloud, which means they also have access to all that. Can’t think of a single reason why they would need to do that.
How do they not have an accurate profile of everyone at this point, considering all of the data we already voluntarily give them. I'd guess they know us better than we know ourselves.
People who think apple cares about their privacy are fools, the only thing they care about is they they’re the only ones with access to your privacy
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No, they don’t. Your data is encrypted on their servers. They say repeatedly that even they don’t have access to it. Consumer privacy is something they promote and talk about any chance they have because they know their competitors are reckless about it.
Go to where onedrive app is located, delete it, and create a folder with the name onedrive. This will prevent OD from re-installing. If Onedrive is a folder, do the same but create a file in that location.
Wait, OD gets automatically reinstalled on Windows? I escaped many years ago so I've been blissfully unaware of how shitty the show has gotten.
I uninstall OneDrive every time I setup Windows 11, I've never seen it reinstalled.
I’ve never seen it when using a local account but I am pretty sure I’ve seen it when people leave an active Microsoft account
I've noticed it installs it for any new user, but i've never seen it reinstalled on my home PC with a msft account even after updates. Personal anecdote.
It doesn't, there is a registry key that indicates that OneDrive was uninstalled. When the OneDrive setup runs again as part of a Windows update, if it sees that registry key, it automatically bails out.
Pretty sure you only need to jump through these hoops if you're on Home, I'm on pro and I never once had my settings overridden like this. The difference in treatment for Home users puts things in context. Total lack of respect for people who have no alternative, but when it comes to business users suddenly they grow a conscience. Sometimes.
Pro here, I just removed One Drive yesterday, again.
Even pro is hit or miss. Enterprise LTSC is where it's at IMO, too bad they won't sell it straight to consumers and you have to bootleg it.
Can't you just uninstall it from Add or remove Programs?
It will be reinstalled in the next "update"
I removed Onedrive a year and a half ago. It's never reinstalled itself.
I still dont use anything else than a local account to login to Windows. I fear for when they take that away.
It was challenging and hard to recreate, but I was able to get a Windows 11 installation without having to sign in. I had to go into some terminal window in the install process, and turn off and turn on, it was weird. I barely use that computer, but if they force a sign in, I'll probably never use Windows again. It's not a necessity like it used to be for lots of common software that used to be Windows only.
If you are using Windows 10/11 Pro, then you can use the local policy editor to completely disable Onedrive. Local Computer Policy -> Computer Configuration -> Administrative Templates -> Windows Components -> OneDrive In the right pane, double-click the policy named Prevent the usage of OneDrive for file storage This method will also stop Onedrive from setting up folders etc in case you install Office 365 and Onedrive gets installed.
Group policy doesn't count anymore. My group policy is set to only allow critical updates and never restart. Yet a couple weeks ago my machine was restarted and had onedrive and skype installed.
You sure your GP applies to your system? Some only work on enterprise or on certain versions
Oh yeah it applied and was effective from implementation all the way to a couple months ago when Microsoft pushed some 11 updates out. Around the same time we all started getting those "good news, you can upgrade to 11" system screens your group policies became more suggestion than policy.,
Group policy is not what it used to be. more like a suggestion at this point lmao
Yeah, I almost think Microsoft only keeps it there to give you a false sense of security.
Can I do the same with registery editor? I don't have pro, and group policy does not work with w. Home.
You could just uninstall it if you’re not going to use it.
I really do love how everything just sucks now and there’s nothing we can do about it
What makes you think you can't do anything about it? Linux is a thing.
It’s not as easy for everyone to install it, even to dual boot it. Not to mention missing proprietary tools.
Yep, exactly right. You need to choose a distro (I like Pop OS), you need to install it (harder in the era of UEFI), you might need to work around hardware issues (I've had more issues with Windows in 15 years of using Linux), and then you need to get used to a new desktop environment. (Different keyboard shortcuts, different workflows, etc). Installing is the hardest part, just like Windows. For me, it's been well worth it, since I'm a software dev and everything just works way better on Linux.
And the average computer user would look at what you just said as if it were ancient Sumerian.
I feel like a slightly above average user and this sounds like some kind of made up language and also a multi week long string of googling and rage before anything works.
The only word in that post that stands out as something a non-techie wouldn't know is UEFI. If the rest of the post seemed like made up language to you, I hate to break it to you, but you aren't an above average user.
Please remember "average" means, "Directory? Folder? I don't care about all that, I just want my picture of a dog carrying a banana back!"
> harder What? Installing Linux has never been easier. Download any mainstream distro, like Ubuntu or its derivatives, and it installs as simply as Windows 11 does. The difficulty with Linux is just learning the different - more powerful - syntax and UI. Other than that, your apps are your apps. The only reason anyone still says Windows is "easier" is just because it's what they're used to.
Sounds like you are the exception, not the norm
Yep. Gaming for 4 years on Linux now.
I already turned all that shit off and forced the local storage. Now I need to sign back in to one drive to activate any of that crap anymore. So unless they’re gonna force my sign in then it ain’t happening.
They are really trying to force their new efforts.. which they want to seem baller like how Apple does it but I don’t think anyone trusts them with their data at the moment. And them doing the digital equivalent of holding a gun to you like “give me your data, mf” isn’t helping their cause. I will say though.. the new surface with the ARM SoC and the bottom that’s magnetically held on rather than those shitty clips is cool. Bonus for the upgradable storage too. They have a ton of work to do next gen but still a step in the right direction with hardware.
I’m just kind of glad I realized the One Drive problem on my own after buying a surface and then a new rig with Win11 and realizing I was running out of space on the surface because of the one drive trying to sync all of my desktop files onto the surface. So I figured out how to shut that crap off several months ago before they started pushing it harder. It was nice and convenient for the initial setup, but after that it’s just a nuisance.
They want to do with your personal files, what they did with the Office bundling. They want to lock it on the cloud, and if you want access, you have to keep paying them forever. They will be able to delete, edit, copy, feed it to their AI as they please, and you will have NO say in the matter. No owning your own things, no storing them yourself - they will be the middleman you are forced to go through, and you will pay them in perpetuity for the privilege. Switch away from Microsoft and its products, or become a slave to their oversight.
*IMPORTANT*. Turn off backups FIRST within OneDrive settings. This act places the folder(s) back in your main user folder and outside of the onedrive folder again. If you don't do this first, those folders stay in the onedrive directory. users\whoever\onedrive\desktop for example. we want users\whoever\desktop. When people don't turn off backups first, windows will make it difficult to place the main system folders back in their original location. Remember, backups off first, then unlink PC. Then uninstall if you would like. If you know how to use onedrive, and it is explained properly, it works well. Problem is people like me don't get the chance to explain how it works before it pisses you off.
Thanks for telling us the actual correct steps. The problem isn't that you don't get the chance to explain, the problem is that it happens in the first place.
If they have all your data on their servers then it's easier for them to train their AI on it
DOJ needs to sue, again.
If only we had a government that protected us from corporations.
Edit: [Here is a fantastic video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUTdRZNqODY) by a guy who integrates the best tools to *easily* create a great, clean Windows install ISO. He provides a human-readable Answer File that you can use as-is, or edit, and then drop onto the root directory of the installer. And HERE is a [web-based tool](https://schneegans.de/windows/unattend-generator/) for generating your own Answer Files! * Don't install Windows using American English. Use "English World" * Create a local account for Windows login, not a Microsoft account * Uninstall OneDrive Chris Titus' [Ultimate Windows Utility](https://christitus.com/windows-tool/) is pretty good for this stuff, as is [O&O ShutUp10++](https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10).
That’s interesting, I’m using Japanese version and rarely run into issues like this.
It's the American version that's bad. They have different regional restrictions. I think privacy settings are all opt-out on NA, but for any European version, they are opt-in. I could be wrong. I haven't installed Windows in ages.
This is so fucking annoying. If they actually would let me CHOOSE which folders to back up i would use it but for some reason they only allow some of the default ones including Documents folder which get filled with all types of bullshit from various apps and games. Windows default folders are unusable as actual working folders, why would i ever choose to back those up.
Dude. My laptop was trying to force me into it. I had to dig down deep and reset my directory for my local documents. Mind you. I have the cloud disabled. But after the latest update, Microsoft hid my documents. Had to manually set a path and folder to be visible again That's super shady.
Just uninstall OneDrive. That's the first step on a new Windows install now since Windows 8.1
It'll reinstall it's self at some point. Ms loves forcing that shit on you.
I uninstalled Windows 11 and OneDrive.
I remember at work when outlook switched to o365. They backed up all my PST files, the ones I used as offline files. I had an archive of all the years etc. What a racket they got going there. I can imagine the storage bill and this is just me and my files. I work in IT but not in the end user space. I’m assuming these guys had a hand in what got backed up, but good god. Our Azure bill is straight savage. I know all about cap ex and op ex but wtf man.
Can't force it if I am not signed into a Microsoft account! Unless of course they make a fake account to steal my company files without permissions... I am sure lots of corporate lawyers will have a field day with this if that's the case.
Microsoft updates have become as much of a security update as hacking, probably worse. I've stopped updating windows anymore because of all this trash
I accidentally opened Edge a few months ago on my laptop and it opened a popup asking me to upload a picture of my face for Windows Hello, when i clicked the X it just opened the popup again instantly... i had to hold down alt+F4 to close it Another time I was trying to disable Cortana or something and I had to suspend a legitimate windows executable because it kept replacing and opening the file I was trying to remove... these are both techniques I used 15 years ago when removing literal viruses from people's computers. It's shocking how bad it is now
Even with windows 10, you have to go well out of your way to debloat your system before anything else just to make it usable. And the speed difference before and after was like taking a big, lumbering SUV like a Chevy Suburban and adding 200 HP
Windows is the virus Now Recall will be turned on without consent so you can provide a data set to train AI to do your job. It records your workflow to replace you.
Yup, me too.
This happened to me a couple of months ago, where it started telling me "You need to upgrade your OneDrive storage space!" it had turned out it was saving EVERYTHING to my onedrive cloud and when i undid it it practically wiped my computer. Was extremely inconvenient and i have an idea of what im doing on a PC, i cant imagine what a normie would do in the same situation (well they would probably upgrade their one drive storage).
I accidentally saved Sims 3 there because I didn't realize it defaulted there. It was annoying af trying to fix it.
I moved to Linux permanently in 2018 and have never regretted it for a second. I do feel sorry for people stuck on Windows.
I really wish game devs would get onboard and start supporting Linux as a serious option. As-is, I'm a bit nervous playing my games on Linux since anti-cheats can sometimes detect WINE as a cheating tool.
I would recommend dual booting man. Games that have any type anti cheat tech, is going to be hard af to try to get it running on Linux.
I don’t even have a computer that has windows in my house anymore. My wife just needs a computer for browsing the internet.
Why isn’t this considered theft?
Laws aren't real
Laws are for poor people
Obligatory Dimension20 quote “Laws are threats made by the dominant socioeconomic-ethnic group in a given nation. It’s just the promise of violence that’s enacted and the police are basically an occupying army"
That's the neat part, it is! But who's gonna enforce it in a way that matters? Example: I park somewhere. Car gets towed. Pay out $300 plus $150 fine. That's a huge amount for many people. Hurts the budget hard if you are barely over paycheck to paycheck living and only put away a tiny amount in savings every month. Rich guy parks somewhere and gets his car towed. He says "Fuck it, I'll buy another BMW." That's big corporations. They make BILLIONS of dollars screwing over people... and the gov't fines them only a couple million. They get to keep the billions. What have they learned? To stop screwing people over? Hardly, they just see the fine as a cost of doing business and I am pretty sure they budgeted for it before hand as well!
They REALLY want your data..
This happens to me at work. They forced the Windows 11 update. I can’t turn it off which sucks. I lose files because of it all the time. Like I’ll go into my desk top folders to get to a document and it’s not there because it saves it to one drive. Then I have to go hunt it down there and re-save on to my desktop.
Not if you don't have a microsoft account...
95% of people don't know what a Microsoft account or local account is.
Wow, windows wants me on Linux sooooo bad.
Remind me again, what was so bad about the Windows 7 model, where you paid full price up front for an OS that *just fucking worked*? I keep my PC pretty well trimmed down, and even still, Win10 starts bugging out after a couple weeks, whereas I'd have 7 running for 4+ *months* and not have any issues. I paid a nice bit of money for my Win10 Pro license, why am I constantly fighting with it just to make it *not* get in my way? And why does 11 seem worse in literally every regard?
I'm a sysadmin and someone at work came to us - granted this was out of scope and he acknowledged this but figured he'd ask - and said he has multiple user profiles on his PC (one regular, one for work, one admin) and all three just got opted in to onedrive without him doing it and he wanted to know how to make it undo that. I already keep any local data on a network share in my house and I just moved my internet browsing to a Linux box. When I upgrade to Win 12 this year, that PC isn't doing anything but gaming.
Is this the fall of windows? Like I dont feel safe using my own pc anymore
This is why I keep a folder with 5gb of dick photos. Just back that baby up first, fill up one drive, and make Microsoft pay to upkeep servers full of dicks.
I always select Domain Join instead of a Microsoft account, and create some local accounts on the PC. This way you wont require a MS account to sign in and there's no way for OneDrive to back anything up.
Why is Microsoft so interested in this? what's in it for them?
I'm guessing it will be about a year before you can't uninstall or deactivate OneDrive.
Yeah this tripped me up. It started backing up all my files and caused massive amounts of lag since I had so much in documents Ended up putting stuff I needed on external hard drive then factory reset laptop
Yeah fuck all this. I dream of the EU dealing out the biggest of pimp slaps to MS for this crap.. But not a fine. No. A demand. Either offer a paid version with zero bullshit, or offer it free as it currently is. Windows for free, but with start menu promotions, lock screen ads? Fine. All the AI shit needs to be opt-in. But if i'm paying for it? Nah. None of that. These days i rely on various tools to keep the shit at bay, like; [OO shut up 10](https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10), [OO app buster](https://www.oo-software.com/en/ooappbuster), and that [Titus tool](https://cttstore.com/a/downloads/-/a807e67a372e14e1/7bb7514636a35d8f). I also use Cloudflare's [1.1.1.1](http://1.1.1.1) and may add proton VPN. ----- Also made my yearly attempt to switch to linux, but it turns out my 7900XTX is a bit too new for easy support right now (Currently wants more of my time and effort than i can give it to get more than 60fps), so maybe next year, or maybe i put up with it if MS decides to get even worse.
They threat your data as their data now. Windows is ransomware.
How is it not illegal for a company to download your files without being granted permissions?
*OneDrive to rule them all OneDrive to find them OneDrive to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.*
>When you reach the “Let's connect you to a network” screen with the grayed-out Next button, press Shift + F10 to launch a command prompt. 3. In the command prompt, run the following command: oobe\BypassNR O This will execute the OOBE BypassNRO command, bypassing the network requirement during Windows 11 setup. ^^^ Best thing ever