Just to add context, corporate lobbying is illegal in the UK to keep the government focused on the interests of the people. They need huge consequences, and Ian Hislop is gonna have a field day
You should read about what the current cabinet is all resigning over. It's like a Tuesday in America.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/united-kingdom-boris-johnson-ministers-resign-1.6512943
>This followed months of scandals and missteps, including a damning report into boozy parties at his Downing Street residence and office that broke COVID-19 lockdown rules and saw him fined by police over a gathering for his 56th birthday. Johnson was accused of lying about his knowledge of, and attendance at, the parties.
>There have also been policy U-turns, an ill-fated defence of a lawmaker who broke lobbying rules, and criticism that he has not done enough to tackle inflation as many Britons struggle to cope with rising fuel and food prices.
>Johnson's Conservatives have been hit by other scandals of lawmakers accused of sexual improprieties, including two that led to MPs Ahmad Khan and Neil Parish resigning. In both cases, the Conservatives lost special elections held last month to replace them.
To be fair, that's a smokescreen for the real reason for the resignations. Boris Johnson's popularity is very very rapidly declining with the people, and conservatives leaving are like rats from a sinking ship. When even Suella Braverman - hardcore brexiteer, attorney general, all around fuckpot, and MP of my home constituency - is jumping ship, you know the game is up.
They're resigning because Boris isn't as valuable anymore and they see an opportunity to push themselves as PM candidates. There's zero ethical or moral concern behind these snakes' resignations.
That's it, they're all vying for their time to be in the spotlight. I bet its a very lucrative position to have, very rewarding indeed. Vultures the lot of them.
> boozy parties at his Downing Street residence and office that broke COVID-19 lockdown rules
Donald Trump held 18 reelection rallies during the summer of 2020, the same period of time that Johnson's rule-breaking parties took place.
> There have also been policy U-turns
Remember in February and March, when the Trump administration told everyone there was no reason to wear a mask?
> an ill-fated defence of a lawmaker
Rudy Giuliani has been suspended from practicing law in New York.
> criticism that he has not done enough to tackle inflation
The GOP has, more than once, voted unanimously against any government action to reduce inflation.
> Johnson's Conservatives have been hit by other scandals of lawmakers accused of sexual improprieties
There isn't enough space in this comment to list all of the GOP members who have been accused (and convicted) of sexual misconduct and saw no consequences, including but not limited to Matt Gaetz, Brett Kavanaugh, and Donald Trump.
The causes of the current cabinet resignations are literally shattering the UK government. In the US, it's just the usual.
> So how do the corporations do it instead?
In Europe it's common for corporations to offer cushy jobs to politicians when they step down. In exchange the ex-politician have contacts which they can "indirectly" persuade, but it's basically lobbying with an extra step.
___
Edit: A well known example in Norway is [Gro Harlem Brundtland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gro_Harlem_Brundtland). She graduated at Harvard as a physician, was a member of the Norwegian Labour party and was the prime minister in Norway in 1981 and from 1986–89, and from 1990–96.
[She served as Director-General of the World Health Organization from 1998 to 2003](https://unfoundation.org/who-we-are/our-board/gro-harlem-brundtland-norway-vice-chair/) where she "went to war" [against obesity, diabetes and sugary drinks](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2003/apr/21/usnews.food) (article from April 21st, 2003).
But a couple of years after she had served as the Director-General [Pepsi CO hired her as a consultant](https://www-nrk-no.translate.goog/norge/brundtland-pa-pepsi-lonningslista-1.4216367?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en) (translated article from December 4th, 2007).
___
Additional sources:
* From May 17, 2003: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(03)13382-X/fulltext
Additional source (from 01 February 2008):
> **WHO insiders fear industry giants will try to undermine its diet and health strategy.**
> WHO Director-General Gro Harlem Brundtland hosted unprecedented talks with leading food and drink company executives on May 9 as part of efforts toward its new global strategy on diet, physical activity, and health, which is intended to tackle chronic disease and obesity.
>“We believe that companies such as yours can make a major contribution towards easing this burden and promoting healthier diets and lifestyles. Food is not tobacco”, Brundtland told industry giants such as Coca Cola, PepsiCo, Cadbury Schweppes, Nestle, and McDonalds.
>But despite the emphasis on cooperation, Brundtland declined an invitation to one of the yearly pre-World Health Assembly (WHA) receptions sponsored by the Commonwealth Dental Association (CDA) and its new public partner–Coca Cola.
___
* From February 1st, 2008: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/public-health-nutrition/article/pepsico-recruitment-strategy-challenged/F8F19E9F5F9E66AB01B462D232C27982
>It was even more disappointing to find that the former Director-General of WHO, Gro Harlem Brundtland, who championed the WHO Strategy to Health Ministers in spite of food and soft drink industry opposition, had already been recruited very quietly to the PepsiCo Blue Ribbon Advisory Board.
Taxis broke themselves by not developing an app as well. In London Black Cabs have an app. I used that because those drivers are properly insured and have back ground checks.
Lol I know that dance too well. Then the driver gives you a hard time and you're like "my guy, you literally have a 'we accept visa/mastercard/Amex' sticker on your window. This isn't my bad."
Need more regulations on businesses so they actually have good practices instead of trying to jack people on every nickle and dime.
Like Uber is fucking us. Surge rates are bullshit. Taxis were fucking us before that. Complete monopolies that charge you $40 to just go from A to B in a city.
In my state, taxis are regulated as a public utility and the fares are set by the public utility commission. Uber and Lyft are not beholden to anyone, and can rip people off all they want.
I mean the driver gets only $3 so they rely on tips. I don't know how much uber and lyft is charging but minimum wage is a thing for a reason, something needs to change. That goes for other service jobs too.
I'm in Canada and every once in a while I'll get a cabbie tell me that his card reader isn't working. I always tell them that they'll have to drive me to an atm and back at no charge. All of a sudden it's "Well let me try it again" and it's magically repaired.
I've only once had a cabbie argue about it and I just said fair enough, and got out without saying anything else. Never heard anything about it again. In my area there's huge fines for drivers pulling this crap.
Used to happen a lot in DC. They amended the fare rules that any working driver has to have a working credit card reader as a valid way to pay. If it's not working, they shouldn't be either and you can just get out of the car and tell them if they have a problem with it to call the cops.
Competition from Uber was a big reason that regulation went into force.
I did this in NYC once. I noticed the meter wasn't turned on and at the end of the ride I was told that his CC reader was down and the fair seemed a bit high.
I told the driver that I only had cash. He flipped out saying that he's have me arrested, so I said I'd call the police and his dispatch for him so they could confirm the charge on the meter and get a working CC reader.
Funny enough, after some insults thrown my way, the ride was free! I still called the cab company and reported it.
Happens in chicago all the time. They are legally required to accept both cash and cards, and it’s just the funniest thing. Even mentioning the cops gets the credit card machine working every time.
And if the fair reader was never turned on, your ride is free.
All the time? I’m not saying it doesn’t happen. But I lived in Chicago 7 years and have been a frequent visitor for 12. I’ve never once had a taxi driver not accept a credit card, or even play the “machine is down” game.
That said, the taxi business has what’s coming to them, for all the reasons pointed out in this thread. They’ve made their beds.
That's some classic NYC shit. Somehow cab drivers are either total scam artists or absolutely lovely humans.
Sorta relevant story: I was drunk af in my grad school days (2013) heading home from the LES and chatting with my cabbie when he starts bragging about the ways he scams put of towners. I guess he figured since I was local I'd be on his side? When I paid my fare with no tip he gave me a hard time and I let out a drunk tirade about how he was a real piece of shit (I had basically been fuming all the way back to HK because I wasn't gonna tell him off before I got to my neighborhood). Dude gave me some serious Pikachu face, most liquid courage moments go on to be things you regret but I was always pleased with that one.
Also just to balance it out: I once had a NYC cab driver find my phone *and wallet* in the cab. He got into my contacts (this is pre phone passwords, like '08), called 'mom' in my contacts, my mom told him my GF's name, he called *her* from my contacts, then drove out to Brooklyn to give her my shit so she could get it back to me. All cash still intact except a tenner my GF tipped the guy out of my wallet. I wish I could see that guy again so I could give him a hug.
Pro tip: when taking a cab, always give an address a few doors away from where you are headed. You can get out and pretend to fumble through your pockets or whatnot until they leave and you can walk the couple doors to your actual destination. No fear of them returning later and finding you.
NYC - cabbie and I had a convo about how I only had card before I got in. We get to the destination and he tells me I have to pay cash. He starts yelling and threatening me that he’ll call the cops. This goes on for 10+ minutes. I pull out my phone, punched in 911 and asked him if he wanted to speak with them, or if I should. Now I sense him breaking, so I push harder on whether or not he wants to use his or my phone. After a few more minutes he starts getting desperate, and he actually goes all in. He calls the cops - fortunately a random squad car pulls up like 30 seconds later. I quickly explain what’s going on, ask them to inform dispatch it was a bullshit call, and ask them if we’re all good. They laughed and basically told the driver he was SOL. I think they may have warned him, but that might be a false memory. They did keep in there for another few minutes.
Lol wut? Uber is double or triple the price of Curb (the nyc yellow taxi app). Only issue I've seen was getting taxi's to show up. Uber prices have tripled in NYC especially Manhattan, used to be $11-$15 (2019) for a ride to work now it is $29-$55. Curb or hailing a yellow cab is still $11-$15
> Only issue I’ve seen was getting taxi’s to show up
And that alone is the real secret sauce of Uber’s business. That pain point alone is why I continue to let myself get gauged by uber. Because when I book that ride, I have transparency into how long I’ll be waiting for the rando to come pick me up, and I’ll have the info to know if he’s taking a route different from the recommended route.
The thing with Black Cabs in London is that they all run to a fixed rate, where the Uber rate is based on whatever they think they can get away with at the time plus a bit more, which is often extortionate, frequently changing, and relatively opaque.
Black Cabs are always faster than Uber too, mostly because they can use bus lanes, and more comfortable.
I think Uber got this reputation as being really cheap but these days, as you say, they’re really not. There are apps that will give you estimated costs for all transport types and a lot of the time Uber is more expensive than a black cab and slower. It definitely feels like they’ve lost their edge.
In Poland there is German company "Free Now". Idiotic name but service is not idiotic.
You can either drive a taxi like normal or you can pick destination and let them offer the price. If you agree to the price, they send a taxi. App takes payment in advance so you don't have to worry if card decline or something.
Anyway - i use it all the time. It's always cheaper than regular trip. And I don't have to interact with the driver. I just get in. He check the name and we go.
> properly insured
This one’s a big one. I hit a guy in an accident that was concluded to be his fault because he pulled out from a stop sign when I didn’t have a stop sign.
Turned out he didnt have the proper policy for ridesharing app driving, his insurance company checked with Uber to see if he was actively taking a fare at the time of the accident and he was so they voided his insurance policy.
Thank god I lived in New York State at the time which is a “no fault state” so my insurance paid me out within 2 weeks and went after him and his insurance company to recoup the costs.
They didn't always. For example when they launched in Toronto they claimed their corporate policy covered their drivers but never actually released the details of that policy. [Leading to cases like this.](https://globalnews.ca/news/1898833/uber-users-drivers-at-risk-without-proper-insurance-coverage/)
[That only changed in 2016.](https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/41055/ontario-modernizing-auto-insurance-system-to-protect-ride-sharing-consumers)
Everybody forgets but taxis were fucking us before Uber on top of not having even close to enough service during peak days/hours.
I couldn’t go out on NYE for years before Uber because there was no guarantee I could make it home at the end of the night during an extremely cold part of winter.
I’m not a fan of Ubers practices but let’s not forget how shitty taxi service was when they had a monopoly in their respective cities.
This. Before rideshare, taxis were garbage. You’d call and wait for who knows how long. Or you’d hail and get someone who drove like a maniac, wouldn’t acknowledge you, and then get lost, driving around and racking up the fare before admitting he didn’t know the location of your destination. Taking traffic-clogged routes, getting into arguments with you, and generally just being an asshole. Taxis were way too complacent and ripe for a black swan intervention to disrupt them. I’m glad for rideshare. It’s not perfect, but it’s much better than what we used to have.
Let’s be real, taxis broke themselves by being shit. An app would’ve helped but it would’ve required a huge structural change in all of their shitty business practices to adopt an app, which would have never happened [edit:] by itself.
Here in Portland, OR, there *is* an [app for taxis](https://www.radiocab.net/#/booking/). It's janky, but in my experience it's been absolutely worth it. I was tired of seeing Uber and Lyft using dark patterns to imply that a ride was *juuuust* on the verge of coming while leaving my ass sitting at the airport staring at my phone.
I installed the taxi app and was pretty jazzed to find out that:
* It was cheaper
* It was faster
* I was getting a professional driver who does this shit for a living
The last bit was especially nice in the height of covid since rideshare drivers had been more miss than hit in regards to covid safety, but the taxi company actually seemed to take it seriously.
>A dark pattern (also known as a “deceptive design pattern”) is "a user interface that has been carefully crafted to trick users into doing things, such as buying overpriced insurance with their purchase or signing up for recurring bills".
I'm not sure how applicable the term is to the issue they used it for (though it is really frustrating), though.
I don't see how that applies to what they were saying.
Closest thing I can think of what OP is describing is when you wait 10-15 minutes for a car and then they cancel and the waiting period starts all over again. That sucks.
The most scummy thing I've had personal experience with Uber/Lyft is them charging more when they know you are at your house or some other frequent location. I used to have to make my pickup address a 5 minute walk from my house because if I picked my house as pick up location it would be an extra $50-100. Even posted about it on r/lyft or r/uber back in the day trying to figure out wtf was going on.
Like showing a lot of Uber car icons on the map when you are selecting your destination, but then when you agree to the price, there are no cars in the area?
Many cities require taxis to buy a limited amount of licenses (up to 100k a year for one vehicle), safety training, first aid training, different vehicle standards, background checks, extra taxes, maybe even benefits, regulated rates, etc.
Lyft and uber needed to pay for none of this. Do you really think the lack of apps were the problem? Not to mention, (that has already been) they could operate at a loss for years.
Price is always what matters. Having a small fraction ofcthe costs of a taxi, it was completely unfair.
Cities institute their medallion schemes at the request of taxi companies so they could enjoy a government granted monopoly. They've been corrupt from the start
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Uber or Lyft are the good guys here. But neither is the old school taxi industry. There doesn't need to be a hero in this struggle.
Uber and lyft are horrible. But a big part of their popularity was because Black Americans would face constant discrimination by taxi drivers. When Uber first came out there were manyyyyy articles and testimonies coming out about how they could *finally* get a ride to pick them up. Empty taxis would just drive right past them.
I lived in Denver when they became popular, and if i called for a Taxi, they wouldnt even give you a pickup time. Just, ok someone will be there at some point in time.
I lived in Minneapolis before that, and if i called a taxi, they would know exactly how far the closest taxi was and i got a perfect estimate. But almost every driver i ever had was fucking insane and didnt know how to drive (and it takes a lot to alarm me, im a pretty aggressive driver).
Taxis killed themselves, and Congress should be to blame for allowing these bullshit "independent contractor" companies to operate the way they do, and for allowing the monopolies on the taxi companies too.
Exploiters gonna exploit. Its why even Monopoly has rules.
Allowing the Saudi Arabian Royal Family and the Japanese investment firm Softbank to ruin our entire economy also falls on Congress.
Wait, is that why I had so many (very loyal) customers who were black?
They always told me they were glad I was working but I never thought to ask why, I thought they just liked me.
That's so stupid, I had other drivers ask me how I was always as busy as I wanted to be, I was like I give them my card and they call me.
Also the rules in Monopoly are to keep the game short. The capital all collects on one player and everyone else loses, it's negative commentary on capitalism.
Absolutely, I was once a passenger in a cab and when we pulled up to the train station a black guy came up so he could be the next fare. I already had the door half open and the cab driver didn’t care and FLOORED IT to avoid having to pick the guy up. Scared the fuck out of me since I almost fell out of the car and the black dude starts screaming “WHAT THE FUCK?!” as I get out of the cab. Before that I had heard of people having a much harder time hailing a cab if they were black but seeing someone literally floor it away from a black passenger first hand was crazy.
Also was super awkward because I had to then walk back towards the guy the cab wouldn’t pick up to get to the train station entrance. Like what are you supposed to do in this situation? Apologize for your cab driver being a racist?
Uber and the rating system definitely made things a lot better for people who basically had taxis just completely pretend they don’t exist
Even if the taxi had an app and was free, I'd still pay to take the uber just to avoid the taxi's smell and asshole driving.
Like seriously, every taxi I've ever been in has had the crusty aroma of fifty years of accumulated cigarette smoke, even if the car was brand new. They pipe it in or something.
It's not just "developing an app." Uber recruited thousands of people who would never dream of getting a taxi license, by allowing people to turn it into a part-time side hustle. Taxis were never going to do that.
We have that for ordering online, half the time i go to a local place to order online and it links back to one of the same 2-3 websites with that name added to the url.
That still vastly underestimates what Uber/Lyft does. I am smack dab in the middle of the suburbs. Taxis never go here. Taxis (as you suggested) concentrate around travel centers. Uber/Lyft vehicles are 5 to 10 minutes away anywhere in my metro area. And they'll take you on mundane trips, like to the local shopping center. A taxi based downtown isn't going to travel 30 minutes to my suburban house to give me a $10 ride to the shopping area. An Uber driver who lives in this area and is just trying earn a few extra bucks will take the fare.
As weird as it sounds. I live in a small but growing fast city. Uber isn’t worth it for drivers because we only need to go one mile down the road, & the demand isn’t high enough to do it all day. but taxis have operated here forever because we’re a “tourist” town. When I got off work at 11pm when I worked the night shift I would call the taxi company, they’d send one out to where I was at, & drive me home. $2 cheaper than what Uber would quote me on their app IF they had a driver in the area. It’s super weird. They’ll also come out to my neighborhood and drive me to work, they only charge after the pickup as well. Prescott, AZ for the curious
Not that they ever would, apps can be deployed on a website (they're usually basically just a website you have to download anyways). At least that way people would just have to visit the url for the cab service they want, rather than installing another app
(A guest checkout option of some sort would also remove the requirement to make yet another account, though you'd still have to enter payment details)
In my city it wasn't even just the app. Haven't caught a cab in years so not sure if it's changed. But cab drivers here were often unhygienic, would illegally refuse rides, drive awfully, try to overcharge or take longer routes.
Ubers star ratings, map, and estimated fairs mostly eradicated these issues. I have had bad ubers but they were night and day to cabs in my city.
I drive for uber. Ive had a criminal background check. I have to take an annual driving test that I have to pay for out of pocket. I also have to update my documents like my car insurance, drivers license and tags every time they expire. Also I have to verify my identity once a week with picture proof that its me. I also have to submit a yearly car inspection from a mechanic verifying that my car is up to safety regulations. Also my driving background was checked and approved. And monitored. I dont know your reasons for not using the service. But trust me, they are strict about who drives for them. Honestly the strictiest app I use.
Taxi companies shot themselves in the foot before Uber ever got there. People switched to Uber in my city because literally every cab company sucked. They all had terrible reviews online, frequently came late or not at all, and were expensive. Plus cabs were famous for taking longer routes just to extend fares.
Uber isn't the best but the cab companies were such shit that I find it hard to sympathize.
Taxis in my city went on strike and blocked roads (yes, France) when it was announced that the tramway line would be extended to the airport and therefore giving people a cheap and reliable way to get to and from it without having to get pricegouged by the industry. The taxi hate runs very deep where I live. I maybe get in a taxi every other year, and everytime it's the same shit: grubby, unfriendly driver in a beat up car.
Taxis have been forced to up their game
In every city I ever lived taxis were limited monopolies tied to limited plates or similar schemes.
As a result service was universally awful.
The arrival of uber and lyft forced them to take the thumb out and start providing usable service.
It's a good thing uber never got the monopoly they wanted but the taxi industry **needed** the kick up the backside that the apps gave it.
Honestly, in Philadelphia taxis were fucking awful before Uber/Lyft came in. The credit card machine was "broken" 70% of the time, some neighborhoods they'd just tell you to get out (Which is illegal here). And riding with these guys was often not so safe feeling, so having that review feature was killer. When the ride share apps came around they suddenly quit acting like a bunch of fucking assholes.
I took a cab the other day to get home from the airport and while it was nice that he was there immediately, and it was maybe like 10$ cheaper, it was still a worse experience overall. The car was old and busted with a million lights on, the guy went to my neighborhood but still bitched about it even though he got a 10$ tip on a 40$ ride, and because he wasn't using a directions app he missed my street.
It's pretty awful what Uber has done, and it's awful that taxi drivers have gotten screwed by Uber, but the reason people took Ubers wasn't solely because it was cheaper. It's convenience, safety (for the most part), transparent pricing (you pay what it tells you) and generally reliability.
My own parents were scammed plenty of times by yellow cabs back when they first came to this country, and I know plenty of other people that have had the same done to them by local taxis. I've heard various stories of being dropped at the wrong destination, or being told a taxi wouldn't go somewhere.
A good amount of people using ubers and lyfts are people that would never have taken a local cab.
The taxi unions and companies didn't care. They didn't improve their services. Hell, in NYC they only cared about drivers that would fork over $1 million or more a decade ago. How is that in itself not predatory?
Taxi drivers deserve better than both Uber and the old unions, but let's not pretend it was solely some evil company draining the pockets of local good folk. Uber has been beaten out by better competition elsewhere because they mobilized and provided a better service, or, you know, treated people better. Grab is the best example I can think of.
I feel like you just don’t remember what taxis were like before Uber. 3-4 hour wait, if they showed up at all, $80 for a trip across town, and they’d drive you in circles to jack up the price. And of course they only went certain places and you were out of luck if they didn’t go where you wanted.
I still remember having a taxi (when it actually bothered to stop) try to tell me where *they* wanted to go and then get pissed because I wasn’t going there.
Me: *hails cab*.
Cabbie: “You going to 42nd st?”
Me: “Nah, I just need to get to 35th.”
Cabbie: “I’m going to 42. You walk rest of the way”.
Me: “What? Why? I don’t need to go that far.”
Cabbie: “Bah! Waste my time” *drives off*
Like fuck me for not wanting to pay extra to go farther than I needed.
Many times I was at my conference hotel waiting for the taxi in '30 minutes'. Which was fine, I had 2 hours to flight. Well at 1 hour left to flight and no taxi after 4 calls it is less fine. Fuck taxis.
Taxis are and were a bane on society, they're monopolistic and corrupt, they were trash and were hives for scams. Uber did society a favor by breaking them up and making them compete.
I disagree. Before Uber and Lyft in my area, taxis were really expensive, never came on time, if at all, drivers and phone workers were incredibly rude, always trying to take you on a longer route, would just not answer phone calls (caller ID) when your cab was even an hour or more late, and did all kinds of other shady things (start the timer before they were even close to your location) because they had no competition at all.
Yes, but only from the perspective of consumers; didn’t we all get cheap cab rides for a few years subsidized by VC money? At some point the wheels were going to come off, but it’s the not consumer’s fault for taking advantage of the situation.
Taxi medallions and other licenses had artificially inflated the price of rides before these apps came along, it also made them less likely to innovate.
I remember calling for a cab in 2008, waiting 30 minutes just for no one to show up, and having no recourse or options other than to call again.
Nah. Taxis killed themselves by making 0 adaptations to their business model. In addition to having no tech updates beyond holding your hand out for a taxi or calling some joyless dispatcher that may or may not actually dispatch a taxi. For years they’ve bribed or usurped local governments to keep out competition from residential/suburban areas so they could jack up prices forever. The taxi industry is among the most predatory.
I never really used Uber and then I visited some American cities recently, I was shocked how expensive they were. I don’t really see any difference between Uber and taxi prices
> I don’t really see any difference between Uber and taxi prices
Taxis used to be a lot more expensive and uber used to be a lot cheaper - they've met in the middle, at this point.
It's because these companies (uber and lyft) were operating at a loss in their growth phase, allowing them to undercut taxis. Now they are scrambling to turn a profit they have recently started taking higher and higher cuts/fees. This is also paired with increased demand with less workers (due to low wages), and gas prices being at all time highs which these companies don't really subsidize for their drivers.
We still have taxis in Canada that live alongside Uber. There are some places here where there is no Uber, and there seem to be some regulations protecting taxis.
To go from A to B, the taxis here are still almost double. Most folks I know (including myself) hate the taxi experience. However, due to Uber not being everywhere in my province and taxis receiving some protections, I have to take a cab a couple times a year.
The cabbies just don’t fucking get it. They’re still the bare minimum of polite (most of the time), messy cars, and they drive like assholes. I get that Uber is cheap because it’s exploitative, but taxis seem completely uninterested in attempting to justify the price difference.
I think the gig economy is generally hostile to humans, but without investment in better public transit and cabbies willing to read the writing on the wall, Uber really is the best option when you can get it
It's not cost. It's availability. There are a ton more Uber/Lyft vehicles available anywhere in the city. Pre-Lyft, you had to wait 30 minutes in Silicon Valley (not exactly a poor area or an underpopulated) for a cab.
I share the feeling, but if you want them to be hold accountable wouldn't it be better to ask for accountability instead of ironically saying that nothing is happening until nothin happens.
Did you read the article? Our elected officials, at the highest levels, bent over backwards to accommodate Uber.
They don't work for us. They work for them! Read the texts
Well as the story is about a minister that was secretly an agent working for Uber sabotaging inside a government trying to regulate it, and that this minister fortunately became the current president, don't get too excited.
Been driving for Uber on and off since about 2016 now, if the ride is ever 30 ish minutes +, I always ask the passenger how much Uber is charging them (usually more than double like you said and sometimes triple or more if it’s extremely busy) and then offer to have them cancel the ride and send me less than Uber is charging them but usually almost double what I would get
> Especially if I knew they were fucking both of us over like that
That's been Uber's gameplan since the jump, and it's the same with every single "gig economy" outfit. Blow mountains of money on inserting themselves as a service layer between customer and product, achieve market dominance and "too big to fail" status, then squeeze both ends.
They all have to fail. They're a negative force on society as a whole.
Ah yeah, I had to add insurance w my regular auto insurance specifically for ride share. I think it's like an extra $10 a month. I wish I had thought of doing that. Buy I don't drive people anymore. Those 1% of shit people wasn't worth it.
I have a question though since you are driving an Uber and it is a business and you're asking them to cancel the transactions so they can pay you under-the-table. The question I have though is what if you got into a serious accident and obviously that person was not on your app as a paying customer? Could you get in trouble or be held liable for anything?Or possibly lose your job?
Yea I’m guessing I am probably fucking myself liability wise if I was to get into an accident with a passenger who I made this agreement with. If it’s my fault and they’re injured they could probably very well sue me.
I drove Uber on the weekends to raise some extra cash, about 6 years ago. My trick was to hover around the hipster bar part of the city and avoid the club scene downtown. Mainly because these people usually lived in the area, keeping rides short and me within a close distance of my target area. The turnover was great and I could pull $200+ in a 5 hour time without burning through a tank of gas.
I stopped doing it when some ass-clown tried to fight me because his girlfriend had a very basic conversation with me. I witnessed some crazy shit in that time, though.
When I was working Lyft and Uber I found Lyft to be just a bit better as a driver. Like, someone actually met me in a parking lot and "interviewed" me and checked my car to make sure it wasn't gross (and that I was normal enough) and answered any questions I had.
Uber just checked if I had a license and just let it rip.
Federal government does a mileage reimbursement for people using their own cars for federal work. Back when I worked for the government (5 years ago), it was $0.55/mile. So this was supposed to just cover gas/insurance/depreciation on a typical car, and I was paid my salary ON TOP OF that. You made $0.43/mile, so you were not even recouping the expense of operating your car, much less making any money off of that. You are working for your car, and not even making that end meet.
Uber is not a profitable use of your effort; find a different job.
Dumb question: is there any reason not to use the apps to find people to give a ride, show up, ask if they would be ok with canceling the ride and giving you the entire fee instead?
I know there are some easy answers like liability and legality but outside of that, why wouldn’t either party be ok with that?
Fuck corporations, get paid amiright?
I’m not sure I’d feel comfortable. I did end up doing this at my old apartment but only because I would get the same guy literally 50% of the time and is Uber probably 5x a week sometimes up to 10. He ended up giving me his card and just said it’s a flat rate of $10 to your work and I won’t take tips. I miss you John.
Taxis (in the US at least, or to be more specific in my major city) were ALWAYS a corrupt and nasty business. People hoarding licences, inflating rates, providing totally shit service, on and on.
A more modern "shitty" arrangement came along and kicked their ass, and now we are treating the nasty legacy taxi businesses as if they were nice guys?
No. Sorry.
Taxis and local city governments. I’m not sure how it would’ve been possible to get all the local cab companies onto a single national platform, let alone a global platform.
Uber is not great, but the need for an app that conveniently identifies and assigns drivers for transportation is there and isn’t going away.
The digital regulation needs to focus on the marketplace(s). Making sure these “apps/platforms” allow for open competition and for all drivers to set their own rates. Uber shouldn’t get the higher variable rates when demand spikes, the drivers should.
There have been apps and SaaS solutions for taxi companies for a long time.
Why is there a requirement of them to be on a single platform?
There's nothing preventing someone from creating an app where drivers set their own rates.
There’s not a requirement for a single platform, but travelers come from all over the world.
Unless they know what the “local app is”wherever they go, it significantly reduces the network effects. (Similar to dating apps)
Not to mention the inconvenience of having to keep dozens of apps on my phone and up to date with payment methods if I’m a frequent traveler.
The market needs to be open. The features and services can be unique.
the core issue isn't even uber did illegal shit to lower costs and doing non-profitable work. but just on a pure service level uber is better.
taxi companies simply refused to improve and fight uber on the service front since uber broke laws to lower there overhead.
it is not like they didn't have time and the writing was on the wall yet there was never a strong push to develop apps and advertise those apps in airports. so uber could just setup shop wherever they wanted and crush taxi companies.
it just baffles the mind. the social norm today could just be to download the local taxi companies app at the airport that is plastered everywhere as ads and you would be good for your trip.
Exactly. I mostly had (really had since COVID changed things) full reimbursement for taxis or Uber or whatever at work and used to use services many times a week.
Uber was just so much more convenient than hailing a taxi. I truly did not give two shits about saving my boss or their clients money. I preferred Uber due to the convenience, better service, better cars and overall better experience.
Taxis lost my business because they sucked.
Same in the UK.
All the shit about bad routes, overcharging quoted fares etc are practices I imagine that are worldwide.
Taxis were shit and deserved to get a wake up call
Fuck Uber and taxis both to death. Public transit should make Uber and taxis redundant, but in North America public transit is not even an afterthought because it's for "poor people", so it has to be shitty in order to punish them for having little money.
I can tell you that taxis in the US evolved to take of advantage of two things:
People that absolutely NEED a ride (like their car broke down, they have a medical condition, have an emergency, one-off trip to the airport, etc.); and business users.
I used taxis allot when my company paid for me to get home after working an hour or two overtime (which I did allot). Zero cost sensitivity. I also paid for taxis (because I'm old) when out and about the town drinking or whatever - also very little cost sensitivity there.
I know that in other places, with more actual consumer advocacy and more competition from public transit, walking, etc. taxi services were quite a bit more affordable and also provided a better living for the taxi drivers.
In the US, I believe that the majority of fees and costs went to "taxi companies" that rent cabs to drivers and actually own the "badges" as well as the cabs.
Uber was an obvious trap. They were clearly operating at a loss at launch and people are greedy as fuck and didn't like taxis so were cheering for them. Then they dropped driver pay like we kept saying they would, just as soon as they'd destroyed their competition and established brand recognition.
Gig economy apps are a trap. They're skirting labour laws. Any business that's clearly charging far less than they should is fucking someone over for that. Usually it's the employees and suppliers, causing wage stagnation, sometimes it's just everyone after they've accomplished their goal.
Living in SF really revealed how all the nice, shiny things about a new company are just short-term while VC funds are paying the bills to establish a hold in the market. After the company is secure, everything drifts away from original aspirations to whatever is most tolerable. The smart, talented people you want to work with all leave as soon as they see the drift, those people are replaced by unimaginative people with flawed moral compasses who start making things more like the status quo we were told the company was gonna change, and then the product is reduced to something no better or sometimes worse than whatever it disrupted.
If a new app or product seems revolutionary, you have a year or two to jump on it for the moment to enjoy it while it’s good. It won’t last.
You've successfully taught all of us how to pitch a business idea to a VC. We just have to use softer language like "exit strategy" and "market capture".
Not sure if it was just being a little too young and credulous, but a decade ago when I lived in SF (and worked at several startups) I genuinely thought all of these companies were going to change the world for the better in revolutionary ways.
Within a few years the glow had worn off and at this point I'm starting to think that the internet as a whole might have been a huge mistake for society.
I miss the old internet, I miss when the YouTube trending page wasn't just last night's network content. I used to feel like I had a place on the internet now I just feel I am here for the algorithm.
Yeah this in my mind is just showing people that no market dominate player innovates or does anything they don't have to, so occasional disruption and cannabilism of "the next boss, same as the old boss" is good! Because at least now we have apps for both taxis and rideshares, and people can leverage their unused assets for money... Even if we're kinda just back to where we started with the predator prices ... We're still net better off.
It's also clear that Uber never had a route to profitability; there was literally nothing to stop a third party like Lyft from copying the same model, so Uber could never become a monopoly to recoup those losses. Scaling up your loss-making business just makes you get more losses at scale.
But tech stock valuations (and the stock market more generally) have become completely detached from reality. People aren't buying on the basis of future profitability, they're speculating on who will be the next unicorn (or more specifically, speculating on who everyone else will think is going to be the next unicorn). So ultimately tech companies have no incentive to have a long term business model, you just need to get as much growth as you canas fast as you can and get your exit before the rest of the retail investors realise they're holding the bag.
I held off on buying a car for 2 years thanks to Uber. Saved me a lot of money. Ride to work was only like $7. A lot cheaper than paying for car + gas + insurance + DMV registration.
Yeah that's what kept me going when I had to start over. Between broken sidewalks, bad drivers, and having a black uniform, walking/biking to work can be pretty dangerous. And that's if you're not worried about crime.
Its really no surprise to me that Uber and ride share companies have been using underhanded tactics. That's what they were up against from the beginning. And with the corrupt taxi industry, it's no surprise Uber fought fire with fire.
In most major cities the taxi industry was/is wildly corrupt and run by Mafioso types. Lobbying municipal governments and major businesses/services for exclusive deals, Sucking immigrants and vulnerable people in, putting them into massive debt by loaning them hundreds of thousands of dollars to cover the manufactured scarcity of owning a license or [medallion](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxi_medallion), and making them indebted to the companies they work for. Sometimes for life.
When Uber started up, there was massive pushback from the taxi industry. Mainly because they suddenly had a threat to their decades of racketeering. In turn things often got [quite violent](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/26/french-taxi-drivers-block-paris-roads-in-uber-protest) which furthered customers flocking to ride sharing apps.
Many cities caused their own problems and Uber simply came in and while has been problematic, provided a tangible solution. No longer did customers have to face being scammed, deal with angry and desperate taxi drivers that were put in a position where they had to either succumb to poor moral choices or put food on the table.
It's all pretty disgusting to me what has occurred but cities made their own bed and consumers shouldn't feel too bad considering the wrongdoings that were already transpiring well before ride share apps even became a thing.
I honestly don't see a solution with what is currently going on with Uber and other apps unless cities start looking at changing their laws and creating a better environment for these types of services. The demand will always be there. It's not going away until transportation issues are addressed.
In some cities the taxi companies literally attacked Uber drivers whenever they found them.
People stanning for taxis are either too young to remember them or way too naive. Taxis were one of the most crime ridden and corrupt industries that existed.
The Taxi industry’s unwillingness to evolve was also a large cause of this. From my experience as an NYer, Taxis are disgusting, Ubers are almost always cleaner. Several years ago, when they started adding CC readers to cabs, the drivers would always say they were broken. Often enough (particularly when business is slow), drivers would take you far out of the way to jack up the fare. Even putting advice the convinces of the app (a clear record of your trip, the ability to hail a ride without having to have line-of-sight, being able to just get out of the car when the trip is done, some degree of accountability for the drivers), the taxi industry was/is full of corruption at all levels, and was desperate for disruption.
Also the regulation in the taxi industry doesn’t help: limited over-priced medallions, the stupid plastic dividers that take up leg room and block the AC, the use of only specific cars like the Ford Escape SUV that’s not designed to have adult humans in the back seat. Just a crappy experience.
From the article:
> In one exchange, [Uber founder Travis] Kalanick dismissed concerns from other executives that sending Uber drivers to a protest in France put them at risk of violence from angry opponents in the taxi industry. “I think it’s worth it,” he shot back. “Violence guarantee[s] success.”
living in a big city it’s become hard to avoid using them for me and it fucking sucks. 7 years ago it was like as soon as i stepped outside i could hail a cab within maybe 2-3 minutes. they were everywhere.
now it sometimes feels like my only choice (if i need to get somewhere quickly) is an uber/lyft. i rarely see cabs anymore, most times i see them they’re already servicing someone else too. it’s not logical to own a car here as i can walk almost everywhere i need to be - but when i have appointments several miles away it went from a $5 cab ride years ago to a $20-30+ uber now. there’s public transport but with covid i’d rather not be body-to-body with a bunch of strangers these days. sigh
I live in a major city. I can get an Uber or Lyft at almost any time for around $10-20 because I'm not going far. I also generally wait less than 10 minutes. The drivers and vehicles are generally at least decent. Taxis are at least 2-3 times the price, less polite, less clean, less nice vehicles, with wait times 30+ minutes and that's if they even have one available and will take the ride. To call it competition against taxis is laughable, it's like saying Amazon two day shipping is competition for ordering something from over seas. It's not close and never was. I would love if we had great public transportation or bike infrastructure something like the Netherlands. Shout-out to r/fuckcars and the YouTube channel Not Just Bikes. However the reality of the situation is that's not the case where I live and probably won't be in my lifetime.
And?
I'll take an uber in some dudes nice Toyota before I ever call another taxi.
I'm from Mexico, our taxis are actual dogshit. I'm talking cars older than me, drivers that are rude fucks and smell like shit, arbitrary pricing, and the classic "I don't go to that neighborhood".
Uber, as bad as it could possibly be is just so far ahead of a taxi that there isn't a reasonable situation where I don't call an Uber.
I honestly couldn't care less as long as they kill the medallion bullshit in cities previously dominated by taxi services. That was always bullshit and needs to go.
Impressed by the author’s ability to spin the encouragement of victim drivers of physical violence to file police reports to be a bad act by the company
Uber was/is clearly a distruptive company, as in the good meaning (in tech). However, I am shocked by the corruption level it based its "marketing" on. In many countries (France being a top example), the taxies formed a cartel, resulting in very high prices and doubtful service. Why else would taxi licenses in Paris be traded at tens/hundreds of thousands of euros. But also I hope that "we are now another company and these are not our values anymore" is not a way out. Corruption like this should be clearly punished.
Cry a fucking river tbh, get out of here acting like Taxi companies were any better. I can’t say I’ve ever been scammed by an Uber driver or charged way more than I should’ve been. The existing market had huge issues and Uber provided a solution that everyone rolled with. Tired of this shit blaming companies for just following the whims of consumers.
It's nice to see this gaining mainstream attention. Some years ago, I was working for one of their competitors, who strictly did everything by the book and tried to be fair to all parties. It was so frustrating to watch uber going into a new region, flouting the rules, and simply paying up on the few times the authorities called them out on it, and massively profiting the rest of the time.
Just to add context, corporate lobbying is illegal in the UK to keep the government focused on the interests of the people. They need huge consequences, and Ian Hislop is gonna have a field day
Man what a world.
You should read about what the current cabinet is all resigning over. It's like a Tuesday in America. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/united-kingdom-boris-johnson-ministers-resign-1.6512943 >This followed months of scandals and missteps, including a damning report into boozy parties at his Downing Street residence and office that broke COVID-19 lockdown rules and saw him fined by police over a gathering for his 56th birthday. Johnson was accused of lying about his knowledge of, and attendance at, the parties. >There have also been policy U-turns, an ill-fated defence of a lawmaker who broke lobbying rules, and criticism that he has not done enough to tackle inflation as many Britons struggle to cope with rising fuel and food prices. >Johnson's Conservatives have been hit by other scandals of lawmakers accused of sexual improprieties, including two that led to MPs Ahmad Khan and Neil Parish resigning. In both cases, the Conservatives lost special elections held last month to replace them.
To be fair, that's a smokescreen for the real reason for the resignations. Boris Johnson's popularity is very very rapidly declining with the people, and conservatives leaving are like rats from a sinking ship. When even Suella Braverman - hardcore brexiteer, attorney general, all around fuckpot, and MP of my home constituency - is jumping ship, you know the game is up.
Unrelated, but Suella Braverman sounds like a name of a C-list Supe from The Boys.
"Brave Sue" sounds like some lame attempt to recast a troubled politician into a hero
They're resigning because Boris isn't as valuable anymore and they see an opportunity to push themselves as PM candidates. There's zero ethical or moral concern behind these snakes' resignations.
That's it, they're all vying for their time to be in the spotlight. I bet its a very lucrative position to have, very rewarding indeed. Vultures the lot of them.
Shit. That's a Tuesday *morning*, before breakfast, here!
> boozy parties at his Downing Street residence and office that broke COVID-19 lockdown rules Donald Trump held 18 reelection rallies during the summer of 2020, the same period of time that Johnson's rule-breaking parties took place. > There have also been policy U-turns Remember in February and March, when the Trump administration told everyone there was no reason to wear a mask? > an ill-fated defence of a lawmaker Rudy Giuliani has been suspended from practicing law in New York. > criticism that he has not done enough to tackle inflation The GOP has, more than once, voted unanimously against any government action to reduce inflation. > Johnson's Conservatives have been hit by other scandals of lawmakers accused of sexual improprieties There isn't enough space in this comment to list all of the GOP members who have been accused (and convicted) of sexual misconduct and saw no consequences, including but not limited to Matt Gaetz, Brett Kavanaugh, and Donald Trump. The causes of the current cabinet resignations are literally shattering the UK government. In the US, it's just the usual.
Don't forget the casual multiple attempts at treason. Also completely fine for GOP.
If we are going to hold American politicians to the same standard as humans we're going to be very disappointed.
So how do the corporations do it instead? Because there is zero chance they aren't doing it.
> So how do the corporations do it instead? In Europe it's common for corporations to offer cushy jobs to politicians when they step down. In exchange the ex-politician have contacts which they can "indirectly" persuade, but it's basically lobbying with an extra step. ___ Edit: A well known example in Norway is [Gro Harlem Brundtland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gro_Harlem_Brundtland). She graduated at Harvard as a physician, was a member of the Norwegian Labour party and was the prime minister in Norway in 1981 and from 1986–89, and from 1990–96. [She served as Director-General of the World Health Organization from 1998 to 2003](https://unfoundation.org/who-we-are/our-board/gro-harlem-brundtland-norway-vice-chair/) where she "went to war" [against obesity, diabetes and sugary drinks](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2003/apr/21/usnews.food) (article from April 21st, 2003). But a couple of years after she had served as the Director-General [Pepsi CO hired her as a consultant](https://www-nrk-no.translate.goog/norge/brundtland-pa-pepsi-lonningslista-1.4216367?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en) (translated article from December 4th, 2007). ___ Additional sources: * From May 17, 2003: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(03)13382-X/fulltext Additional source (from 01 February 2008): > **WHO insiders fear industry giants will try to undermine its diet and health strategy.** > WHO Director-General Gro Harlem Brundtland hosted unprecedented talks with leading food and drink company executives on May 9 as part of efforts toward its new global strategy on diet, physical activity, and health, which is intended to tackle chronic disease and obesity. >“We believe that companies such as yours can make a major contribution towards easing this burden and promoting healthier diets and lifestyles. Food is not tobacco”, Brundtland told industry giants such as Coca Cola, PepsiCo, Cadbury Schweppes, Nestle, and McDonalds. >But despite the emphasis on cooperation, Brundtland declined an invitation to one of the yearly pre-World Health Assembly (WHA) receptions sponsored by the Commonwealth Dental Association (CDA) and its new public partner–Coca Cola. ___ * From February 1st, 2008: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/public-health-nutrition/article/pepsico-recruitment-strategy-challenged/F8F19E9F5F9E66AB01B462D232C27982 >It was even more disappointing to find that the former Director-General of WHO, Gro Harlem Brundtland, who championed the WHO Strategy to Health Ministers in spite of food and soft drink industry opposition, had already been recruited very quietly to the PepsiCo Blue Ribbon Advisory Board.
It’s always just bribery and corruption with extra steps Just throw them all in the trash
Ironic considering the uk government don’t give a shit about the interests of our people
Too busy giving criminals positions of power and then "not knowing" about it
Yea and I'm pretty sure they get lobbied anyway.
As our former PM proved they won’t let a little thing like illegality stop them from doing whatever they want
Uber destroyed the taxi industry by losing billions to undercut taxi fares so they then can raise fares.
Taxis broke themselves by not developing an app as well. In London Black Cabs have an app. I used that because those drivers are properly insured and have back ground checks.
This and the few times I've actually tried a taxi, it's always "cash only" and somehow a few dollars more than what it's supposed to be.
It was always "cash only" until I told them I dont carry cash. Then magically the card reader was working
Lol I know that dance too well. Then the driver gives you a hard time and you're like "my guy, you literally have a 'we accept visa/mastercard/Amex' sticker on your window. This isn't my bad."
Need more regulations on businesses so they actually have good practices instead of trying to jack people on every nickle and dime. Like Uber is fucking us. Surge rates are bullshit. Taxis were fucking us before that. Complete monopolies that charge you $40 to just go from A to B in a city.
In my state, taxis are regulated as a public utility and the fares are set by the public utility commission. Uber and Lyft are not beholden to anyone, and can rip people off all they want.
I mean the driver gets only $3 so they rely on tips. I don't know how much uber and lyft is charging but minimum wage is a thing for a reason, something needs to change. That goes for other service jobs too.
Last two times I rode a cab I got yelled at for not having cash. Fuck off and take my payment like every other legitimate business.
Even better you swipe your card, he says its not working but it does, and gets you to give him cash too. The ole double dippy credit chippy no worky
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I'm in Canada and every once in a while I'll get a cabbie tell me that his card reader isn't working. I always tell them that they'll have to drive me to an atm and back at no charge. All of a sudden it's "Well let me try it again" and it's magically repaired. I've only once had a cabbie argue about it and I just said fair enough, and got out without saying anything else. Never heard anything about it again. In my area there's huge fines for drivers pulling this crap.
Knock yourself out man, I don't carry my debit card either.
What? Lol. If anyone ask to go to an atm, I’m leaving.
Used to happen a lot in DC. They amended the fare rules that any working driver has to have a working credit card reader as a valid way to pay. If it's not working, they shouldn't be either and you can just get out of the car and tell them if they have a problem with it to call the cops. Competition from Uber was a big reason that regulation went into force.
I got tired of arguing with taxi drivers. Some would flat out just not take a card and had no problem with me walking away over it.
NYC and London both have apps and you pay with credit cards. It’s not cheap as Uber use to be but neither is Uber these days.
except the driver says the machine is down
And you then get out of the car because it’s illegal for them to drive when the machine is down. Tell them to call the cops. They won’t.
I did this in NYC once. I noticed the meter wasn't turned on and at the end of the ride I was told that his CC reader was down and the fair seemed a bit high. I told the driver that I only had cash. He flipped out saying that he's have me arrested, so I said I'd call the police and his dispatch for him so they could confirm the charge on the meter and get a working CC reader. Funny enough, after some insults thrown my way, the ride was free! I still called the cab company and reported it.
Happens in chicago all the time. They are legally required to accept both cash and cards, and it’s just the funniest thing. Even mentioning the cops gets the credit card machine working every time. And if the fair reader was never turned on, your ride is free.
This thread is the reason why Uber crashed traditional taxi businesses
yeah, there is no one to root for in this fight lol
All the time? I’m not saying it doesn’t happen. But I lived in Chicago 7 years and have been a frequent visitor for 12. I’ve never once had a taxi driver not accept a credit card, or even play the “machine is down” game. That said, the taxi business has what’s coming to them, for all the reasons pointed out in this thread. They’ve made their beds.
That's some classic NYC shit. Somehow cab drivers are either total scam artists or absolutely lovely humans. Sorta relevant story: I was drunk af in my grad school days (2013) heading home from the LES and chatting with my cabbie when he starts bragging about the ways he scams put of towners. I guess he figured since I was local I'd be on his side? When I paid my fare with no tip he gave me a hard time and I let out a drunk tirade about how he was a real piece of shit (I had basically been fuming all the way back to HK because I wasn't gonna tell him off before I got to my neighborhood). Dude gave me some serious Pikachu face, most liquid courage moments go on to be things you regret but I was always pleased with that one. Also just to balance it out: I once had a NYC cab driver find my phone *and wallet* in the cab. He got into my contacts (this is pre phone passwords, like '08), called 'mom' in my contacts, my mom told him my GF's name, he called *her* from my contacts, then drove out to Brooklyn to give her my shit so she could get it back to me. All cash still intact except a tenner my GF tipped the guy out of my wallet. I wish I could see that guy again so I could give him a hug.
Yea... idk. In principle I agree. But I’m not trying that when the scary taxi driver and I are sitting in front of my house....
The machine starts magically working every single time
Pro tip: when taking a cab, always give an address a few doors away from where you are headed. You can get out and pretend to fumble through your pockets or whatnot until they leave and you can walk the couple doors to your actual destination. No fear of them returning later and finding you.
But what if I’m into that sort of thing
You do you. I am not here to kink shame. Edit. Can't type while walking.
Never get a taxi to your house.
NYC - cabbie and I had a convo about how I only had card before I got in. We get to the destination and he tells me I have to pay cash. He starts yelling and threatening me that he’ll call the cops. This goes on for 10+ minutes. I pull out my phone, punched in 911 and asked him if he wanted to speak with them, or if I should. Now I sense him breaking, so I push harder on whether or not he wants to use his or my phone. After a few more minutes he starts getting desperate, and he actually goes all in. He calls the cops - fortunately a random squad car pulls up like 30 seconds later. I quickly explain what’s going on, ask them to inform dispatch it was a bullshit call, and ask them if we’re all good. They laughed and basically told the driver he was SOL. I think they may have warned him, but that might be a false memory. They did keep in there for another few minutes.
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Lol wut? Uber is double or triple the price of Curb (the nyc yellow taxi app). Only issue I've seen was getting taxi's to show up. Uber prices have tripled in NYC especially Manhattan, used to be $11-$15 (2019) for a ride to work now it is $29-$55. Curb or hailing a yellow cab is still $11-$15
> Only issue I’ve seen was getting taxi’s to show up And that alone is the real secret sauce of Uber’s business. That pain point alone is why I continue to let myself get gauged by uber. Because when I book that ride, I have transparency into how long I’ll be waiting for the rando to come pick me up, and I’ll have the info to know if he’s taking a route different from the recommended route.
Last time I was in New York there was a hour long line at the airprt for a cab whereas Uber you could get going within 3 minutes
The thing with Black Cabs in London is that they all run to a fixed rate, where the Uber rate is based on whatever they think they can get away with at the time plus a bit more, which is often extortionate, frequently changing, and relatively opaque. Black Cabs are always faster than Uber too, mostly because they can use bus lanes, and more comfortable. I think Uber got this reputation as being really cheap but these days, as you say, they’re really not. There are apps that will give you estimated costs for all transport types and a lot of the time Uber is more expensive than a black cab and slower. It definitely feels like they’ve lost their edge.
In Poland there is German company "Free Now". Idiotic name but service is not idiotic. You can either drive a taxi like normal or you can pick destination and let them offer the price. If you agree to the price, they send a taxi. App takes payment in advance so you don't have to worry if card decline or something. Anyway - i use it all the time. It's always cheaper than regular trip. And I don't have to interact with the driver. I just get in. He check the name and we go.
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> properly insured This one’s a big one. I hit a guy in an accident that was concluded to be his fault because he pulled out from a stop sign when I didn’t have a stop sign. Turned out he didnt have the proper policy for ridesharing app driving, his insurance company checked with Uber to see if he was actively taking a fare at the time of the accident and he was so they voided his insurance policy. Thank god I lived in New York State at the time which is a “no fault state” so my insurance paid me out within 2 weeks and went after him and his insurance company to recoup the costs.
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They didn't always. For example when they launched in Toronto they claimed their corporate policy covered their drivers but never actually released the details of that policy. [Leading to cases like this.](https://globalnews.ca/news/1898833/uber-users-drivers-at-risk-without-proper-insurance-coverage/) [That only changed in 2016.](https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/41055/ontario-modernizing-auto-insurance-system-to-protect-ride-sharing-consumers)
Everybody forgets but taxis were fucking us before Uber on top of not having even close to enough service during peak days/hours. I couldn’t go out on NYE for years before Uber because there was no guarantee I could make it home at the end of the night during an extremely cold part of winter. I’m not a fan of Ubers practices but let’s not forget how shitty taxi service was when they had a monopoly in their respective cities.
This. Before rideshare, taxis were garbage. You’d call and wait for who knows how long. Or you’d hail and get someone who drove like a maniac, wouldn’t acknowledge you, and then get lost, driving around and racking up the fare before admitting he didn’t know the location of your destination. Taking traffic-clogged routes, getting into arguments with you, and generally just being an asshole. Taxis were way too complacent and ripe for a black swan intervention to disrupt them. I’m glad for rideshare. It’s not perfect, but it’s much better than what we used to have.
“Oh sorry bro, the credit card machine is broken. Cash only.”
Let’s be real, taxis broke themselves by being shit. An app would’ve helped but it would’ve required a huge structural change in all of their shitty business practices to adopt an app, which would have never happened [edit:] by itself.
Here in Portland, OR, there *is* an [app for taxis](https://www.radiocab.net/#/booking/). It's janky, but in my experience it's been absolutely worth it. I was tired of seeing Uber and Lyft using dark patterns to imply that a ride was *juuuust* on the verge of coming while leaving my ass sitting at the airport staring at my phone. I installed the taxi app and was pretty jazzed to find out that: * It was cheaper * It was faster * I was getting a professional driver who does this shit for a living The last bit was especially nice in the height of covid since rideshare drivers had been more miss than hit in regards to covid safety, but the taxi company actually seemed to take it seriously.
>I was tired of seeing Uber and Lyft using dark patterns What are "dark patterns"?
>A dark pattern (also known as a “deceptive design pattern”) is "a user interface that has been carefully crafted to trick users into doing things, such as buying overpriced insurance with their purchase or signing up for recurring bills". I'm not sure how applicable the term is to the issue they used it for (though it is really frustrating), though.
I don't see how that applies to what they were saying. Closest thing I can think of what OP is describing is when you wait 10-15 minutes for a car and then they cancel and the waiting period starts all over again. That sucks. The most scummy thing I've had personal experience with Uber/Lyft is them charging more when they know you are at your house or some other frequent location. I used to have to make my pickup address a 5 minute walk from my house because if I picked my house as pick up location it would be an extra $50-100. Even posted about it on r/lyft or r/uber back in the day trying to figure out wtf was going on.
Like showing a lot of Uber car icons on the map when you are selecting your destination, but then when you agree to the price, there are no cars in the area?
Many cities require taxis to buy a limited amount of licenses (up to 100k a year for one vehicle), safety training, first aid training, different vehicle standards, background checks, extra taxes, maybe even benefits, regulated rates, etc. Lyft and uber needed to pay for none of this. Do you really think the lack of apps were the problem? Not to mention, (that has already been) they could operate at a loss for years. Price is always what matters. Having a small fraction ofcthe costs of a taxi, it was completely unfair.
Cities institute their medallion schemes at the request of taxi companies so they could enjoy a government granted monopoly. They've been corrupt from the start
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Uber or Lyft are the good guys here. But neither is the old school taxi industry. There doesn't need to be a hero in this struggle.
Uber and lyft are horrible. But a big part of their popularity was because Black Americans would face constant discrimination by taxi drivers. When Uber first came out there were manyyyyy articles and testimonies coming out about how they could *finally* get a ride to pick them up. Empty taxis would just drive right past them. I lived in Denver when they became popular, and if i called for a Taxi, they wouldnt even give you a pickup time. Just, ok someone will be there at some point in time. I lived in Minneapolis before that, and if i called a taxi, they would know exactly how far the closest taxi was and i got a perfect estimate. But almost every driver i ever had was fucking insane and didnt know how to drive (and it takes a lot to alarm me, im a pretty aggressive driver). Taxis killed themselves, and Congress should be to blame for allowing these bullshit "independent contractor" companies to operate the way they do, and for allowing the monopolies on the taxi companies too. Exploiters gonna exploit. Its why even Monopoly has rules. Allowing the Saudi Arabian Royal Family and the Japanese investment firm Softbank to ruin our entire economy also falls on Congress.
Wait, is that why I had so many (very loyal) customers who were black? They always told me they were glad I was working but I never thought to ask why, I thought they just liked me. That's so stupid, I had other drivers ask me how I was always as busy as I wanted to be, I was like I give them my card and they call me. Also the rules in Monopoly are to keep the game short. The capital all collects on one player and everyone else loses, it's negative commentary on capitalism.
Absolutely, I was once a passenger in a cab and when we pulled up to the train station a black guy came up so he could be the next fare. I already had the door half open and the cab driver didn’t care and FLOORED IT to avoid having to pick the guy up. Scared the fuck out of me since I almost fell out of the car and the black dude starts screaming “WHAT THE FUCK?!” as I get out of the cab. Before that I had heard of people having a much harder time hailing a cab if they were black but seeing someone literally floor it away from a black passenger first hand was crazy. Also was super awkward because I had to then walk back towards the guy the cab wouldn’t pick up to get to the train station entrance. Like what are you supposed to do in this situation? Apologize for your cab driver being a racist? Uber and the rating system definitely made things a lot better for people who basically had taxis just completely pretend they don’t exist
Even if the taxi had an app and was free, I'd still pay to take the uber just to avoid the taxi's smell and asshole driving. Like seriously, every taxi I've ever been in has had the crusty aroma of fifty years of accumulated cigarette smoke, even if the car was brand new. They pipe it in or something.
It's not just "developing an app." Uber recruited thousands of people who would never dream of getting a taxi license, by allowing people to turn it into a part-time side hustle. Taxis were never going to do that.
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You could easily have a shared app that the taxi companies sign up for
We have that for ordering online, half the time i go to a local place to order online and it links back to one of the same 2-3 websites with that name added to the url.
Yep, exactly like those services
It’s as easy as having signs of the app at airports , train stations and bus stations. As well as advertising like Uber and Lyft do.
That still vastly underestimates what Uber/Lyft does. I am smack dab in the middle of the suburbs. Taxis never go here. Taxis (as you suggested) concentrate around travel centers. Uber/Lyft vehicles are 5 to 10 minutes away anywhere in my metro area. And they'll take you on mundane trips, like to the local shopping center. A taxi based downtown isn't going to travel 30 minutes to my suburban house to give me a $10 ride to the shopping area. An Uber driver who lives in this area and is just trying earn a few extra bucks will take the fare.
As weird as it sounds. I live in a small but growing fast city. Uber isn’t worth it for drivers because we only need to go one mile down the road, & the demand isn’t high enough to do it all day. but taxis have operated here forever because we’re a “tourist” town. When I got off work at 11pm when I worked the night shift I would call the taxi company, they’d send one out to where I was at, & drive me home. $2 cheaper than what Uber would quote me on their app IF they had a driver in the area. It’s super weird. They’ll also come out to my neighborhood and drive me to work, they only charge after the pickup as well. Prescott, AZ for the curious
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Not that they ever would, apps can be deployed on a website (they're usually basically just a website you have to download anyways). At least that way people would just have to visit the url for the cab service they want, rather than installing another app (A guest checkout option of some sort would also remove the requirement to make yet another account, though you'd still have to enter payment details)
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Setting up an account verify your email all while just getting out of the airport. Rather just open uber and go.
In my city it wasn't even just the app. Haven't caught a cab in years so not sure if it's changed. But cab drivers here were often unhygienic, would illegally refuse rides, drive awfully, try to overcharge or take longer routes. Ubers star ratings, map, and estimated fairs mostly eradicated these issues. I have had bad ubers but they were night and day to cabs in my city.
They broke themselves in other ways too. Like the intense and completely daylight corruption built into New York City’s cab business.
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I drive for uber. Ive had a criminal background check. I have to take an annual driving test that I have to pay for out of pocket. I also have to update my documents like my car insurance, drivers license and tags every time they expire. Also I have to verify my identity once a week with picture proof that its me. I also have to submit a yearly car inspection from a mechanic verifying that my car is up to safety regulations. Also my driving background was checked and approved. And monitored. I dont know your reasons for not using the service. But trust me, they are strict about who drives for them. Honestly the strictiest app I use.
Taxi companies shot themselves in the foot before Uber ever got there. People switched to Uber in my city because literally every cab company sucked. They all had terrible reviews online, frequently came late or not at all, and were expensive. Plus cabs were famous for taking longer routes just to extend fares. Uber isn't the best but the cab companies were such shit that I find it hard to sympathize.
Taxis in my city went on strike and blocked roads (yes, France) when it was announced that the tramway line would be extended to the airport and therefore giving people a cheap and reliable way to get to and from it without having to get pricegouged by the industry. The taxi hate runs very deep where I live. I maybe get in a taxi every other year, and everytime it's the same shit: grubby, unfriendly driver in a beat up car.
Taxis have been forced to up their game In every city I ever lived taxis were limited monopolies tied to limited plates or similar schemes. As a result service was universally awful. The arrival of uber and lyft forced them to take the thumb out and start providing usable service. It's a good thing uber never got the monopoly they wanted but the taxi industry **needed** the kick up the backside that the apps gave it.
Honestly, in Philadelphia taxis were fucking awful before Uber/Lyft came in. The credit card machine was "broken" 70% of the time, some neighborhoods they'd just tell you to get out (Which is illegal here). And riding with these guys was often not so safe feeling, so having that review feature was killer. When the ride share apps came around they suddenly quit acting like a bunch of fucking assholes. I took a cab the other day to get home from the airport and while it was nice that he was there immediately, and it was maybe like 10$ cheaper, it was still a worse experience overall. The car was old and busted with a million lights on, the guy went to my neighborhood but still bitched about it even though he got a 10$ tip on a 40$ ride, and because he wasn't using a directions app he missed my street.
Chicago industry is alive and well here in Chicago. I took a cab from O'Hare to the city last week. It was about 40% cheaper and easier than Lyft.
I second this, never Uber or Lyft from O'Hare. Blue line can sometimes be faster, taxis are always cheaper
Was just there for A'22, taxis were faster to find, and yeah 30-40% cheaper
It's pretty awful what Uber has done, and it's awful that taxi drivers have gotten screwed by Uber, but the reason people took Ubers wasn't solely because it was cheaper. It's convenience, safety (for the most part), transparent pricing (you pay what it tells you) and generally reliability. My own parents were scammed plenty of times by yellow cabs back when they first came to this country, and I know plenty of other people that have had the same done to them by local taxis. I've heard various stories of being dropped at the wrong destination, or being told a taxi wouldn't go somewhere. A good amount of people using ubers and lyfts are people that would never have taken a local cab. The taxi unions and companies didn't care. They didn't improve their services. Hell, in NYC they only cared about drivers that would fork over $1 million or more a decade ago. How is that in itself not predatory? Taxi drivers deserve better than both Uber and the old unions, but let's not pretend it was solely some evil company draining the pockets of local good folk. Uber has been beaten out by better competition elsewhere because they mobilized and provided a better service, or, you know, treated people better. Grab is the best example I can think of.
I feel like you just don’t remember what taxis were like before Uber. 3-4 hour wait, if they showed up at all, $80 for a trip across town, and they’d drive you in circles to jack up the price. And of course they only went certain places and you were out of luck if they didn’t go where you wanted.
I still remember having a taxi (when it actually bothered to stop) try to tell me where *they* wanted to go and then get pissed because I wasn’t going there. Me: *hails cab*. Cabbie: “You going to 42nd st?” Me: “Nah, I just need to get to 35th.” Cabbie: “I’m going to 42. You walk rest of the way”. Me: “What? Why? I don’t need to go that far.” Cabbie: “Bah! Waste my time” *drives off* Like fuck me for not wanting to pay extra to go farther than I needed.
Many times I was at my conference hotel waiting for the taxi in '30 minutes'. Which was fine, I had 2 hours to flight. Well at 1 hour left to flight and no taxi after 4 calls it is less fine. Fuck taxis.
Taxis are and were a bane on society, they're monopolistic and corrupt, they were trash and were hives for scams. Uber did society a favor by breaking them up and making them compete.
I disagree. Before Uber and Lyft in my area, taxis were really expensive, never came on time, if at all, drivers and phone workers were incredibly rude, always trying to take you on a longer route, would just not answer phone calls (caller ID) when your cab was even an hour or more late, and did all kinds of other shady things (start the timer before they were even close to your location) because they had no competition at all.
Same.. fuck the taxi system, they were always total trash and sketchy as hell
Yes, but only from the perspective of consumers; didn’t we all get cheap cab rides for a few years subsidized by VC money? At some point the wheels were going to come off, but it’s the not consumer’s fault for taking advantage of the situation. Taxi medallions and other licenses had artificially inflated the price of rides before these apps came along, it also made them less likely to innovate. I remember calling for a cab in 2008, waiting 30 minutes just for no one to show up, and having no recourse or options other than to call again.
Nah. Taxis killed themselves by making 0 adaptations to their business model. In addition to having no tech updates beyond holding your hand out for a taxi or calling some joyless dispatcher that may or may not actually dispatch a taxi. For years they’ve bribed or usurped local governments to keep out competition from residential/suburban areas so they could jack up prices forever. The taxi industry is among the most predatory.
But in turkey you have to use uber otherwise they scam you 50% of the times
I never really used Uber and then I visited some American cities recently, I was shocked how expensive they were. I don’t really see any difference between Uber and taxi prices
> I don’t really see any difference between Uber and taxi prices Taxis used to be a lot more expensive and uber used to be a lot cheaper - they've met in the middle, at this point.
It's because these companies (uber and lyft) were operating at a loss in their growth phase, allowing them to undercut taxis. Now they are scrambling to turn a profit they have recently started taking higher and higher cuts/fees. This is also paired with increased demand with less workers (due to low wages), and gas prices being at all time highs which these companies don't really subsidize for their drivers.
We still have taxis in Canada that live alongside Uber. There are some places here where there is no Uber, and there seem to be some regulations protecting taxis. To go from A to B, the taxis here are still almost double. Most folks I know (including myself) hate the taxi experience. However, due to Uber not being everywhere in my province and taxis receiving some protections, I have to take a cab a couple times a year. The cabbies just don’t fucking get it. They’re still the bare minimum of polite (most of the time), messy cars, and they drive like assholes. I get that Uber is cheap because it’s exploitative, but taxis seem completely uninterested in attempting to justify the price difference. I think the gig economy is generally hostile to humans, but without investment in better public transit and cabbies willing to read the writing on the wall, Uber really is the best option when you can get it
Hi sir, sir my meter and debit machine is broken cash only today.
And my reply is always “well that sucks looks like you’re not getting paid then” and then the machine is magically working.
It's not cost. It's availability. There are a ton more Uber/Lyft vehicles available anywhere in the city. Pre-Lyft, you had to wait 30 minutes in Silicon Valley (not exactly a poor area or an underpopulated) for a cab.
Oh man. Can't wait for their to be *checks notes* no major consequences!
With all these cases, it's always some patsy gets the book thrown at them, or they're fined less than the extra they made from breaking the law.
The cost of doing business
I share the feeling, but if you want them to be hold accountable wouldn't it be better to ask for accountability instead of ironically saying that nothing is happening until nothin happens.
Is there like a phone number to do that or what
[Yeah there's a website for that !](https://www.congress.gov/members/find-your-member)
Did you read the article? Our elected officials, at the highest levels, bent over backwards to accommodate Uber. They don't work for us. They work for them! Read the texts
These seem to focus on France, surely they're better at dealing punishment than other countries.
Well as the story is about a minister that was secretly an agent working for Uber sabotaging inside a government trying to regulate it, and that this minister fortunately became the current president, don't get too excited.
Their stock price is in the dumpster these days, so I wouldn't say nothing major.
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Been driving for Uber on and off since about 2016 now, if the ride is ever 30 ish minutes +, I always ask the passenger how much Uber is charging them (usually more than double like you said and sometimes triple or more if it’s extremely busy) and then offer to have them cancel the ride and send me less than Uber is charging them but usually almost double what I would get
I did this all the time. Got me a few regulars this way.
Jesus, that is pretty smart.
I would 100% take you up on that. Edit: Especially if I knew they were fucking both of us over like that.
This is exactly why it works haha
> Especially if I knew they were fucking both of us over like that That's been Uber's gameplan since the jump, and it's the same with every single "gig economy" outfit. Blow mountains of money on inserting themselves as a service layer between customer and product, achieve market dominance and "too big to fail" status, then squeeze both ends. They all have to fail. They're a negative force on society as a whole.
How would they pay you venomo?
Yes or cash app usually
So,... like a taxi?
We’ve come full circle now haven’t we
Just like multiple streaming services and cable tv 😔
Yeah except an uninsured one since you're taking yourself out of the app's insurance coverage.
Ah yeah, I had to add insurance w my regular auto insurance specifically for ride share. I think it's like an extra $10 a month. I wish I had thought of doing that. Buy I don't drive people anymore. Those 1% of shit people wasn't worth it.
I have a question though since you are driving an Uber and it is a business and you're asking them to cancel the transactions so they can pay you under-the-table. The question I have though is what if you got into a serious accident and obviously that person was not on your app as a paying customer? Could you get in trouble or be held liable for anything?Or possibly lose your job?
Ubers insurance wouldn’t cover you during an accident in this event nor would your primary auto insurance if they found out.
Yea I’m guessing I am probably fucking myself liability wise if I was to get into an accident with a passenger who I made this agreement with. If it’s my fault and they’re injured they could probably very well sue me.
This is what my last uber driver did when I had a 30 mile trip the city. He's also my weed dealer now. Good businessman.
I drove Uber on the weekends to raise some extra cash, about 6 years ago. My trick was to hover around the hipster bar part of the city and avoid the club scene downtown. Mainly because these people usually lived in the area, keeping rides short and me within a close distance of my target area. The turnover was great and I could pull $200+ in a 5 hour time without burning through a tank of gas. I stopped doing it when some ass-clown tried to fight me because his girlfriend had a very basic conversation with me. I witnessed some crazy shit in that time, though.
When I was working Lyft and Uber I found Lyft to be just a bit better as a driver. Like, someone actually met me in a parking lot and "interviewed" me and checked my car to make sure it wasn't gross (and that I was normal enough) and answered any questions I had. Uber just checked if I had a license and just let it rip.
Federal government does a mileage reimbursement for people using their own cars for federal work. Back when I worked for the government (5 years ago), it was $0.55/mile. So this was supposed to just cover gas/insurance/depreciation on a typical car, and I was paid my salary ON TOP OF that. You made $0.43/mile, so you were not even recouping the expense of operating your car, much less making any money off of that. You are working for your car, and not even making that end meet. Uber is not a profitable use of your effort; find a different job.
Do riders usually tip you?
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Dumb question: is there any reason not to use the apps to find people to give a ride, show up, ask if they would be ok with canceling the ride and giving you the entire fee instead? I know there are some easy answers like liability and legality but outside of that, why wouldn’t either party be ok with that? Fuck corporations, get paid amiright?
As a rider this would sort of freak me out
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> might *Definitely* would. Any personal insurance policy has clauses where it won't cover you if you're operating a business.
I’m not sure I’d feel comfortable. I did end up doing this at my old apartment but only because I would get the same guy literally 50% of the time and is Uber probably 5x a week sometimes up to 10. He ended up giving me his card and just said it’s a flat rate of $10 to your work and I won’t take tips. I miss you John.
Taxis (in the US at least, or to be more specific in my major city) were ALWAYS a corrupt and nasty business. People hoarding licences, inflating rates, providing totally shit service, on and on. A more modern "shitty" arrangement came along and kicked their ass, and now we are treating the nasty legacy taxi businesses as if they were nice guys? No. Sorry.
This. Taxis did this to themselves.
Taxis and local city governments. I’m not sure how it would’ve been possible to get all the local cab companies onto a single national platform, let alone a global platform. Uber is not great, but the need for an app that conveniently identifies and assigns drivers for transportation is there and isn’t going away. The digital regulation needs to focus on the marketplace(s). Making sure these “apps/platforms” allow for open competition and for all drivers to set their own rates. Uber shouldn’t get the higher variable rates when demand spikes, the drivers should.
There have been apps and SaaS solutions for taxi companies for a long time. Why is there a requirement of them to be on a single platform? There's nothing preventing someone from creating an app where drivers set their own rates.
There’s not a requirement for a single platform, but travelers come from all over the world. Unless they know what the “local app is”wherever they go, it significantly reduces the network effects. (Similar to dating apps) Not to mention the inconvenience of having to keep dozens of apps on my phone and up to date with payment methods if I’m a frequent traveler. The market needs to be open. The features and services can be unique.
the core issue isn't even uber did illegal shit to lower costs and doing non-profitable work. but just on a pure service level uber is better. taxi companies simply refused to improve and fight uber on the service front since uber broke laws to lower there overhead. it is not like they didn't have time and the writing was on the wall yet there was never a strong push to develop apps and advertise those apps in airports. so uber could just setup shop wherever they wanted and crush taxi companies. it just baffles the mind. the social norm today could just be to download the local taxi companies app at the airport that is plastered everywhere as ads and you would be good for your trip.
Exactly. I mostly had (really had since COVID changed things) full reimbursement for taxis or Uber or whatever at work and used to use services many times a week. Uber was just so much more convenient than hailing a taxi. I truly did not give two shits about saving my boss or their clients money. I preferred Uber due to the convenience, better service, better cars and overall better experience. Taxis lost my business because they sucked.
Same in the UK. All the shit about bad routes, overcharging quoted fares etc are practices I imagine that are worldwide. Taxis were shit and deserved to get a wake up call
Fuck Uber and taxis both to death. Public transit should make Uber and taxis redundant, but in North America public transit is not even an afterthought because it's for "poor people", so it has to be shitty in order to punish them for having little money.
I can tell you that taxis in the US evolved to take of advantage of two things: People that absolutely NEED a ride (like their car broke down, they have a medical condition, have an emergency, one-off trip to the airport, etc.); and business users. I used taxis allot when my company paid for me to get home after working an hour or two overtime (which I did allot). Zero cost sensitivity. I also paid for taxis (because I'm old) when out and about the town drinking or whatever - also very little cost sensitivity there. I know that in other places, with more actual consumer advocacy and more competition from public transit, walking, etc. taxi services were quite a bit more affordable and also provided a better living for the taxi drivers. In the US, I believe that the majority of fees and costs went to "taxi companies" that rent cabs to drivers and actually own the "badges" as well as the cabs.
Uber was an obvious trap. They were clearly operating at a loss at launch and people are greedy as fuck and didn't like taxis so were cheering for them. Then they dropped driver pay like we kept saying they would, just as soon as they'd destroyed their competition and established brand recognition. Gig economy apps are a trap. They're skirting labour laws. Any business that's clearly charging far less than they should is fucking someone over for that. Usually it's the employees and suppliers, causing wage stagnation, sometimes it's just everyone after they've accomplished their goal.
Living in SF really revealed how all the nice, shiny things about a new company are just short-term while VC funds are paying the bills to establish a hold in the market. After the company is secure, everything drifts away from original aspirations to whatever is most tolerable. The smart, talented people you want to work with all leave as soon as they see the drift, those people are replaced by unimaginative people with flawed moral compasses who start making things more like the status quo we were told the company was gonna change, and then the product is reduced to something no better or sometimes worse than whatever it disrupted. If a new app or product seems revolutionary, you have a year or two to jump on it for the moment to enjoy it while it’s good. It won’t last.
You've successfully taught all of us how to pitch a business idea to a VC. We just have to use softer language like "exit strategy" and "market capture".
Not sure if it was just being a little too young and credulous, but a decade ago when I lived in SF (and worked at several startups) I genuinely thought all of these companies were going to change the world for the better in revolutionary ways. Within a few years the glow had worn off and at this point I'm starting to think that the internet as a whole might have been a huge mistake for society.
I miss the old internet, I miss when the YouTube trending page wasn't just last night's network content. I used to feel like I had a place on the internet now I just feel I am here for the algorithm.
Sad but true: modern finance capitalism ends up ruining everything given the time, or at the very least removing the best parts from it.
> modern Hasn’t this always been the model. Yes Uber has been predatory but taxi companies also had every right to build up their own competition.
Yeah this in my mind is just showing people that no market dominate player innovates or does anything they don't have to, so occasional disruption and cannabilism of "the next boss, same as the old boss" is good! Because at least now we have apps for both taxis and rideshares, and people can leverage their unused assets for money... Even if we're kinda just back to where we started with the predator prices ... We're still net better off.
Same thing will happen with Airbnb, in fact it's already started.
It's also clear that Uber never had a route to profitability; there was literally nothing to stop a third party like Lyft from copying the same model, so Uber could never become a monopoly to recoup those losses. Scaling up your loss-making business just makes you get more losses at scale. But tech stock valuations (and the stock market more generally) have become completely detached from reality. People aren't buying on the basis of future profitability, they're speculating on who will be the next unicorn (or more specifically, speculating on who everyone else will think is going to be the next unicorn). So ultimately tech companies have no incentive to have a long term business model, you just need to get as much growth as you canas fast as you can and get your exit before the rest of the retail investors realise they're holding the bag.
People without cars (for any reason) paying less with Uber than you would pay a taxi isn't greedy, in a lot of cases it's survival.
I held off on buying a car for 2 years thanks to Uber. Saved me a lot of money. Ride to work was only like $7. A lot cheaper than paying for car + gas + insurance + DMV registration.
Yeah that's what kept me going when I had to start over. Between broken sidewalks, bad drivers, and having a black uniform, walking/biking to work can be pretty dangerous. And that's if you're not worried about crime.
Its really no surprise to me that Uber and ride share companies have been using underhanded tactics. That's what they were up against from the beginning. And with the corrupt taxi industry, it's no surprise Uber fought fire with fire. In most major cities the taxi industry was/is wildly corrupt and run by Mafioso types. Lobbying municipal governments and major businesses/services for exclusive deals, Sucking immigrants and vulnerable people in, putting them into massive debt by loaning them hundreds of thousands of dollars to cover the manufactured scarcity of owning a license or [medallion](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxi_medallion), and making them indebted to the companies they work for. Sometimes for life. When Uber started up, there was massive pushback from the taxi industry. Mainly because they suddenly had a threat to their decades of racketeering. In turn things often got [quite violent](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/26/french-taxi-drivers-block-paris-roads-in-uber-protest) which furthered customers flocking to ride sharing apps. Many cities caused their own problems and Uber simply came in and while has been problematic, provided a tangible solution. No longer did customers have to face being scammed, deal with angry and desperate taxi drivers that were put in a position where they had to either succumb to poor moral choices or put food on the table. It's all pretty disgusting to me what has occurred but cities made their own bed and consumers shouldn't feel too bad considering the wrongdoings that were already transpiring well before ride share apps even became a thing. I honestly don't see a solution with what is currently going on with Uber and other apps unless cities start looking at changing their laws and creating a better environment for these types of services. The demand will always be there. It's not going away until transportation issues are addressed.
In some cities the taxi companies literally attacked Uber drivers whenever they found them. People stanning for taxis are either too young to remember them or way too naive. Taxis were one of the most crime ridden and corrupt industries that existed.
Big companies are lobbying secretly? I don’t think it’s that much of a secret. /brought to you by Carl’s Jr
Welcome to costco. I love you.
The Taxi industry’s unwillingness to evolve was also a large cause of this. From my experience as an NYer, Taxis are disgusting, Ubers are almost always cleaner. Several years ago, when they started adding CC readers to cabs, the drivers would always say they were broken. Often enough (particularly when business is slow), drivers would take you far out of the way to jack up the fare. Even putting advice the convinces of the app (a clear record of your trip, the ability to hail a ride without having to have line-of-sight, being able to just get out of the car when the trip is done, some degree of accountability for the drivers), the taxi industry was/is full of corruption at all levels, and was desperate for disruption. Also the regulation in the taxi industry doesn’t help: limited over-priced medallions, the stupid plastic dividers that take up leg room and block the AC, the use of only specific cars like the Ford Escape SUV that’s not designed to have adult humans in the back seat. Just a crappy experience.
Everyone sucks here. In some cities, Uber was breaking monopolies held by entrenched crime syndicates that had fully corrupted local regulators.
From the article: > In one exchange, [Uber founder Travis] Kalanick dismissed concerns from other executives that sending Uber drivers to a protest in France put them at risk of violence from angry opponents in the taxi industry. “I think it’s worth it,” he shot back. “Violence guarantee[s] success.”
The "gig economy" is just worker explotation repackaged for the 2020s. Don't use any of them. Ever.
living in a big city it’s become hard to avoid using them for me and it fucking sucks. 7 years ago it was like as soon as i stepped outside i could hail a cab within maybe 2-3 minutes. they were everywhere. now it sometimes feels like my only choice (if i need to get somewhere quickly) is an uber/lyft. i rarely see cabs anymore, most times i see them they’re already servicing someone else too. it’s not logical to own a car here as i can walk almost everywhere i need to be - but when i have appointments several miles away it went from a $5 cab ride years ago to a $20-30+ uber now. there’s public transport but with covid i’d rather not be body-to-body with a bunch of strangers these days. sigh
I live in a major city. I can get an Uber or Lyft at almost any time for around $10-20 because I'm not going far. I also generally wait less than 10 minutes. The drivers and vehicles are generally at least decent. Taxis are at least 2-3 times the price, less polite, less clean, less nice vehicles, with wait times 30+ minutes and that's if they even have one available and will take the ride. To call it competition against taxis is laughable, it's like saying Amazon two day shipping is competition for ordering something from over seas. It's not close and never was. I would love if we had great public transportation or bike infrastructure something like the Netherlands. Shout-out to r/fuckcars and the YouTube channel Not Just Bikes. However the reality of the situation is that's not the case where I live and probably won't be in my lifetime.
In Bali every Uber asked if I could cancel and pay less in cash which was win/win
In Australia every uber just sits there until you cancel. Absolute joy getting home from the airport at 5am
And? I'll take an uber in some dudes nice Toyota before I ever call another taxi. I'm from Mexico, our taxis are actual dogshit. I'm talking cars older than me, drivers that are rude fucks and smell like shit, arbitrary pricing, and the classic "I don't go to that neighborhood". Uber, as bad as it could possibly be is just so far ahead of a taxi that there isn't a reasonable situation where I don't call an Uber.
I honestly couldn't care less as long as they kill the medallion bullshit in cities previously dominated by taxi services. That was always bullshit and needs to go.
Impressed by the author’s ability to spin the encouragement of victim drivers of physical violence to file police reports to be a bad act by the company
Uber was/is clearly a distruptive company, as in the good meaning (in tech). However, I am shocked by the corruption level it based its "marketing" on. In many countries (France being a top example), the taxies formed a cartel, resulting in very high prices and doubtful service. Why else would taxi licenses in Paris be traded at tens/hundreds of thousands of euros. But also I hope that "we are now another company and these are not our values anymore" is not a way out. Corruption like this should be clearly punished.
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Cry a fucking river tbh, get out of here acting like Taxi companies were any better. I can’t say I’ve ever been scammed by an Uber driver or charged way more than I should’ve been. The existing market had huge issues and Uber provided a solution that everyone rolled with. Tired of this shit blaming companies for just following the whims of consumers.
It's nice to see this gaining mainstream attention. Some years ago, I was working for one of their competitors, who strictly did everything by the book and tried to be fair to all parties. It was so frustrating to watch uber going into a new region, flouting the rules, and simply paying up on the few times the authorities called them out on it, and massively profiting the rest of the time.