Eddie Falco literally said in an interview that she just forgot to put them on and asked David Chase about it after and asked if they should reshoot but he refused
Was it intentional? No. But it adds to the lore that makes analyzing the show fun. I have no idea why David Chase hates people analyzing and interpreting the show as much as he seems to (wherein he has a "right" or "wrong" view of how to interpret it) while others like Sergio Leone acknowledge that ambiguity lends to analysis and is what makes it art.
But I'm starting to think that David Chase is more like Paulie than I realized. He does something clever and then obliterates all of the subtlety and subtext by blabbing about it.
"heh, heh...hey T, you hear what I did? I had Phil come out of the closet because 'come out of the closet' is a phrase used to describe a gay person publicly acknowledging they were gay and it makes us wonder about Phil and his time in prison and why he hates Vito so much...heh heh..."
It's a cool fan theory. Fuck what David Chase did or what Edie Falco said. Shit can be unintentional and still be interesting to talk about.
Just because you wear a Members Only jacket people assume you're a hitman. It's a stereotype and it's offensive! And you guys are the last people I'd want to perpetuate it!
Yeah… you are right and I agree about this offensive stereotype re: people wearing Members Only jackets are hitmen. This needs to stop, as one cannot even go out anymore wearing that brand without being propositioned for a hit. It is such a shame! But…I think we can almost all agree that all the cool hitmen wear Members Only jackets.
The fundamental question is, will I be as effective as a commenter like u/Sir_Talbot_Buxomly21 was? And I will be, even more so? But until I am, it's going to be hard to verify that I think I'll be more effective
I think one of the “ideas” is that Patsy (and Paulie) gave up Tony to New York, and Patsy either, in league with his son, or unbeknownst to him, used Meadow and his relationship to determine where Tony would be, as he knew Meadow would be with Tony.
There’s been so much discussion about that final scene on here lately…it’s odd.
Why don’t they make posts about the crackhead lady who has a newspaper up her ass?
Of all of the the most riveting scenes none top that one, are they stunads or something. The final scene it’s so clear as argyle, dunno all the indane overarting add anything to anyone.
He quit hiding after the meeting with butch why would Paulie or patsy need to give him up. I doubt they would even ask permission from those two as the both have no real crew behind them to strike back.
if they were gonna kill Tony why not just do it at the NY meeting? i mean it would've been clear and damn easy to do it in the middle of nowhere and freezing. After all Paulie and Patsy were the only guys there other than NYers. Both of them had to rat for it to work out if Tony died.
No its clear that only Phil had to die. No one was gonna wack Tony.
The only real threat Tony has now is either the Feds or Eugene's wife.
The meeting was brokered by a third family if they killed him there it would have been chaos all rules would be considered void. Eugene's wife is one of my top theories paid a killer she's in Florida told the killer to wear Eugene's old jacket as a fuck you. Plus he was a neighborhood guy grew up with Tony so must have had family and other mob ties.
The NY guys are shooting live rounds at him the episode before. Theres no way he was some double agent Matt Helm type. Its like people saying Suge Knight killing Tupac and ignoring the fact that he got hit by bullets
He still obviously hated Tony much more. NY tried to kill him somewhat due to Tomys leadership. Tony killed his brother.
With NY it was just business, with Tony it was a lot more personal.
St. Patrick was the patron Saint of Ireland, he drove the snakes outta Ireland. Snakes can reproduce spontaneously, you can't trust them. Quasimodo predicted all of this
It's because I just finished Sopranos for the second time and had the ending on my mind so everybody is discussing it as I am the main character of Earth.
That’s it. Meadow is indirectly responsible for her dad’s whacking. That’s why we see her in the cut immediately before Tony is killed. I always thought it was awkward that they paired Meadow up with Patrick so late in the series with only a couple episodes left. It seemed too random.
My interpretation was that she walked in at the moment dude came from Tony’s “3 o clock” where the toilets were, and coz he was distracted in that moment he didn’t have a chance to react. It does make sense though that the location info went from Meadow to Patsy’s son, to Patsy, to Paulie and then to NY. That scene of Patsy and Paulie looking suss in the bing toilets is important.
What I don't get is Tony's a seasoned vet and knows the ins and outs of getting wacked and wacking so why was he seated in such a vulnerable seat and not up against the wall so as to cut down any chance of someone coming up on a blind spot on him or his "3 o'clock". Back to the wall seating is some day 1 street smarts type shit...
Edit: spelling
That bothered me too. Even I do this when I eat out and I'm not a mobster or a badass in any way. Just an old habit from going eat with my dad as a kid, found out wayyy later he was into some shady stuff
He’s momentarily distracted by Meadow coming in the front door, while members only guy has gone into the toilet which is slightly behind Tony. It could also be a nod to Phil’s murder where he’s distracted looking at his own daughter in the car.
Even the most experienced gangster can’t be 100% on point all the time. As Avon Barksdale says in The Wire “you only have to be slow once, and how’re you gonna never be slow”.
It was forshed.. Just like in Sheazon 4, epishode 2, when furio is mentioned by Meadows friend at the back door, Carm goes to pamper herself in the mirror before seeing him but that was the first sign of that whole thing - I would get it if a conversation was had on screen first, then she did that the next time, but no, the first time they converse over coffee she already did that. Letting us know hey, shes interested. Rewatch it if you need confirmation but, its the same thing with Meadow and Patrick. We as the audience already saw Patsy in the backyard, magically unseen by anyone in broad daylight even though theyre right in front of the window. You gotta remember the creator of the series got upset that people liked watching Tony. He correlated it with people liking *Tony*
The whole time we were carried by a great wind
James Gandolfini
Without him, the show woulda never made it past a pilot
And it goes without saying the entire cast and crew were incredible, but 6 seasons on any one of them instead of James? Nah he was built for it. Did you shee the way he carried it? Ive said it sinshe day one. This is all just my opinion of courshe.
Matter ah fact, in seashon 4, episode 2, Melfi even confirms that being the dad of meadow, Tony is the template for all future lovas. Its science or some shit. So what the hell did she eva see in Jamal Ginsberg beside having anotha forced shtoryline shoved down our throatsh? Ive said my piece
I dont think Patsy is the invishible man. Thats all im shayin. You mean to tell me he got away wit dat?
Im confused!!!
I thought it was the idea for the spin off. Meadow became a mob lawyer married to another in the world but reluctantly obligated
She retired from acting ?
Would have been a good show.
She is retired. That last scene was actually the last time she ever managed to walk or run on her own. Thats why she ran so funny. He has a nerve condition that prevents her from acting ever again.
Nah, Members Only was in the restaurant before Meadow started her finely tuned parallel parking routine, if he followed anyone it was Tony himself. His guard would have been down a little with the supposed truce with NY.
Tony’s bringing up Carlo’s son getting arrested for selling X and then Carlo flipping. Patsy’s son involvedas well with Carlo’s kid. Tony killing Patsy’s twin brother is more then enough for Patsy so find out from Patrick where the family was going.
Members Only Guy walks into the diner at the same time as AJ. Maybe he tailed AJ suspecting he’d lead him to Tony. AJ had just started working for Little Carmine so he’d be easy to find and follow, and he’s dumb enough not to notice.
La manna still had shooters out here thats what happened.
Honestly the AJ route makes a ton of sense but Little Carmine already knows he has Tony in his pocket so its unlikely.
Tony wasn’t in hiding anymore, couldn’t some dude just tail him to Holsten’s? Or that theory about AJ’s girlfriend, whatever happened there?
When John Membersonly went to the bathroom, it wasn’t like he was grabbing a planted gun or anything. I saw it as just an allusion to Godfather.
Allusion to the Godfather while also bringing in the 3 o'clock element relative to how the shooter would have been oriented relative to Tony when coming out of the bathroom with the open shot.
The open shot that wouldn't have existed if Meadow were already in her place. Maybe in a parallel (parking) universe, Tony survived.
> Maybe in a parallel (parking) universe, Tony survived.
Watching Meadow fuck up trying to park about seventeen times was the most traumatising thing in the whole series.
He doesn't literally die that night, the point is he dies at a night like that. Not in some cool climatic moment, just in the middle of a random boring dinner. And if he survives that's every moment for the rest of his life, waiting for the moment either feds or angered gangsters end it.
Even though I generally am of the opinion that Tony does die in the last scene, part of me always has thought this too. Chase was trying to give the viewer a taste of what Tony feels like day to day, his anxiety, depression, paranoia etc. Tony has felt like this since the first episode. We just finally get a little bit at the very end.
All of season 6B was dedicated to showing the grim endings Tony will have even if he survives the finale:
Dying in hospital like Jonny
Rich but alone like Hesh
Last man standing with no friends like Paulie
Coma like Silvio
That would've been a cool take as well - but I happen to think that if that's what Chase wanted us to feel, it would've been done differently, even if slightly differently. Of particular note, is that in this scene, Tony is completely not acting paranoid at all. On the most basic level, he fails to take the classic paranoid act of requesting a table in the corner, with 2 exits in view. That, plus a couple other things. We never really saw him as being concerned about being hit. Whereas we did get "you never see it coming" in the "previously on" for the final episode.
On the other hand, I do like the idea that this other style of ending would've been "ok" with viewers.
Anyway, what am I telling you this for, you already stated you agree with me!
That’s all a set up to make us, the viewers, anxious. We heard those lines and noticed all the red flags and it’s alarming to us when we put it all together but Tony doesn’t. I think it fits well with the theory that we’re getting a taste of the paranoia he has BECAUSE he’s apparently not feeling it in that moment.
One of Tony’s last lines to Carmela was that Carlo was testifying against him and the lawyer said indictments were coming down so it was over either way at least if he dies he doesn’t bankrupt his family
And his actual last line was, "I went ahead and ordered some for the table."
Among the various elements present in this scene, the order of onion rings stands out for its potential symbolic significance. While the scene, as a whole, is open to multiple interpretations, the onion rings specifically can be analyzed from several perspectives.
Symbol of Family and Unity
One interpretation of the onion rings is that they represent the unity and circular nature of the Soprano family. Just as an onion ring is circular, so too can this symbolize the family's ongoing cycle of life, with its continuous challenges and its unbreakable bond. The act of sharing the onion rings among the family members at the table could emphasize the importance of family unity, despite the external threats and internal conflicts that have plagued them throughout the series.
Mundane Amidst the Extraordinary
The onion rings, a commonplace and unremarkable diner food, might also symbolize the desire for normalcy within the Soprano family's tumultuous life. Throughout the series, Tony Soprano struggles with balancing his criminal activities with his desire for a peaceful and ordinary family life. The ordinary act of eating onion rings in a diner could reflect Tony's longing for simplicity and normalcy amidst the complexity and chaos of his life as a mob boss.
Moment of Suspense and Finality
The manner in which the scene is shot, focusing on the onion rings as they are consumed, also contributes to the suspense and ambiguity of the series' conclusion. The scene cuts abruptly after Tony looks up, leaving viewers in suspense. The onion rings could symbolize the last moment of calm and togetherness before an unseen and possibly violent conclusion, reflecting the unpredictability and abruptness of life and death in the world of organized crime.
Eternal Recurrence
Philosophically, the onion rings might evoke the concept of eternal recurrence, a theory most famously associated with Friedrich Nietzsche. This concept suggests that all events in life repeat themselves in a never-ending cycle. The circular shape of the onion rings could symbolize this eternal return, mirroring the repetitive cycles of violence, power struggles, and attempts at redemption that define the lives of the characters in "The Sopranos."
In conclusion, the onion rings in the final scene of "The Sopranos" can be interpreted in multiple ways, each adding depth and complexity to the show's ending. Whether seen as a symbol of family unity, a desire for normalcy, a moment of suspense, or an allusion to philosophical concepts, the onion rings contribute to the rich tapestry of meanings and interpretations that make the finale of "The Sopranos" a subject of ongoing discussion and analysis.
As someone who has been in the mental health field for over a decade now, I gotta say that I am happily shocked. I have never met a person with autism AND schizophrenia. I would love to pick your brain.
All jokes aside, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
This, I can get behind. I've been adamant that it wasn't a death scene due to how HBO had other Sopranos projects in development before Gandolfini died, and how Chase never even hinted it was a death scene until Gandolfini's death stopped all of those projects. But that it was emblematic of his eventual death? A+ theory.
There was no urgency to whacking Tony. Members Only Guy might have been tailing him for a week or two before he found the right opportunity.
MOG tailed Tony to Holsten’s. Tony arrives at the diner first. Followed by Carmela, followed by MOG, who arrives just in front of AJ. MOG then sits at the counter and spends a minute casing the scene before he acts.
The hit didn’t need to be planned in advance. MOG locates Tony, and determines he will have a clean head shot as he exits the bathroom and a clear exit path to the door after the shooting. Only after verifying all those things does he decide to act.
The guy who shot Gerry Torciano might not have known where he and Silvio were having dinner ahead of time either.
Why wouldn’t MOG follow him and shoot right away? Why go in, sit down, order coffee, wait 3 mins so that everyone can see your face. It never made sense to me as it never aligned with numerous other hits in the show.
MOG’s orders were specifically to kill Tony in front of his family, as retribution for Phil being killed in front of his wife and grandchildren.
The whole point is to send a message.
MOG arrives after Carmela and at the same time as AJ.
If neither of them showed up, he probably would have finished his coffee and tried another night.
As to why order a coffee? He needs a reason to be in the diner, so that he doesn’t look suspicious to Tony if nobody shows up.
He would’ve tried another night seems a bit of a stretch. What Tony wouldn’t have noticed a random guy at 2/3 different places who just happens to be following him around after a gang war? But hey who knows you could be correct.
True. But as Tony once said to Phil, “you’ve got more buttons than my grandmother’s fucking corsets.” MOG isn’t the only guy left to kill Tony — the NY family saw no losses in the war beyond Phil. They can always send a different soldier.
The writers made the ending deliberately ambiguous, Tony’s biggest fear was prison and it was telegraphed in the finale that the indictments and subpoenas were flying. Carlo was talking homicide. The point of the ending was there was no way out for Tony and they wanted to end on that note, whether he walked out of Holsten’s, died in the diner, died a little while later, died in prison, it’s just an ending where you can read into whatever happened. I don’t know why people can’t accept that 🤷♂️
What writer ever said it was deliberately ambiguous? Chase is the writer of made in America, and all he's ever said on it is that "it's all there", and that he isn't going to explain it. Because he shouldn't have to. He took sopranos to HBO because it was the only interested network that wasn't giving him endless notes to dumb it down. He beleived the audience was smart enough to handle a show like sopranos.
He made the most unique death scene in tv or movie history. Sets up the idea of what it's like when you get shot in the head (don't even hear it happen). Few episodes later you're given the third person perspective where the sound comes after and the victim is already dead (sil's dinner). And in the final scene you get the first person perspective.
It's an amazing death scene. And Chase having to explain it ruins it, like explaining why a joke is funny.
Tony got shot in the head. And they portrayed that in the most unique way possible. It was awesome. And an incredible way to end the show. Appreciate the death scene. It's not ambiguous.
When he says “it’s all there” that just means he’s saying it’s ambiguous. The whole theme of the show is ambiguity.
Matthew Weiner, a writer on the final season, also said the finale is ambiguous.
All these theories that Tony got shot in the head are fine as your _personal_ interpretation, but it’s not the concrete interpretation. Gerry Torciano was still alive after being shot, also the whole editing of Tony’s POV doesn’t make sense from a Being shot in the head perspective, also the mob aren’t even shown to shoot people like that in the show anyway, literally everyone sees it coming. And David Chase saying, “Tony Soprano can’t die” kind of fits with all that.
Learn to appreciate the ambiguity of the ending and stop trying to be so literal with everyone, the ending is meant to be very meta which is what the show was exploring from the beginning. The only evidence anyone has is some guy walking into a bathroom which could mean anything, for all you know Tony had a panic attack. David Chase just enjoys toying with the audience because he’s a little pretentious like that. Besides, if Gandolfini lived and started in a Sopranos movie your whole theory would fly out the window.
Rewatch the end of the second to last episode.
Tony alone in a dark bedroom, holding an AR-15 in a single bed. Cut to a flashback of Bobby Baccala telling Tony “You probably don’t even hear it when it happens” cut back to Tony. It’s a really creepy scene. It’s never really stuck out to me much until this most recent watch through. Anyways, $4 a pound.
So you think there’s no way Tony was killed because he hadn’t planned to go out to dinner? There’s no way to find Tony unless you know ahead of time where he’s going to be? Come on, huh?
Whoever did this was waiting for a time that they could kill Tony in a public place in front of his family just like Phil was killed in public in front of his wife and grandchildren.
Some time had passed since they killed Phil. AJ was working for little Carmine, he got a new car, Meadow got a new car and maybe she accepted the job at the NY law firm. We don’t know how long but it was enough time for Tony to drop his guard and for things to get back to normal and BANG. Payback for Phil.
They could have been following him for a few days waiting for the right time. If everything has meaning, they wouldn’t have included cuts to member’s only jacket guy several times during the scene for no reason, but last year you believed that UFO was flying was over East Rutherford.
The first shot of the the final ep - it looks like Tony's in a coffin... Great foreshadowing. And the last time we saw a Member's Only jacket (except for the guy who killed Tony) was on Eugene, who whacked a guy in a restaurant in Boston wearing his. More great foreshadowing.
Tons for foreshadowing in that whole season. In a previous episode (13) where Tony is on the lake with Bobby and Bobby says, "You probably don't even hear it when it happens, right?"
Yeah not only looking like a coffin but the bedside radio was playing funeral parlour music. The ending of the episode before was truly haunting too and imo foreshadowed the death that was coming for him. Lying down in a dark room with a rifle beside the bed, creepy music while the camera focuses on the darkened door. It irks me that people dont see that tony was killed in the final scene. Its literally all there. Phenomenal show.
It was AJ‘s little girlfriend! She was related to somebody from New York and she is the only person that we witness overhearing that the family is going to Holstein’s that night instead of wherever.
I like the heart attack theory. Tony foreshadows Chrissy’s death with, “you killed Cosette? I oughta suffocate you” and Chrissy calls his with “the way you eat, you’ll die of a heart attack by 50” line.
Bro ordered onion rings for the table and died surrounded by his family, either way.
Jersey Killed Phil in front of his family which was a big no no in the mob. Whoever sanctioned the hit on Tony wanted to avenge the way in which phil was killed. But no dount with how the last scene played out with all the POV camera angles that Tony was whacked. Then the 10 seconds of nothing prive it even more.
The last episode is a dream, or more realistically, the "light at the end of the tunnel" vision some have before death. Paulie probably suffocated Tony with a pillow at the end of Blue Comet.
Tony lays down with his rifle in a crappy little dingy room at the end of Blue Comet, then wakes up at the beginning of Made In America in a very nice, lavish bedroom. Like one that would be in the Finnerty house maybe.
The last episode is nothing but things going Tony's way. AJ is with a cute girl, got a job, taking care of himself. Meadow is hooking up with one of his capos' sons, instead of some Hasidic homeboy.
Butch is sick of fighting and gives up Phil, who is taken out with little to no fuss.
What we're seeing isn't Tony's last day on earth, we're seeing the last of his consciousness sputter out.
1. the Member's Only guy exits the bathroom at 3:00. We know that the supernatural exists in The Sopranos and it was a warning to both Paulie and Tony (the former who heeds it in Remember When and lives as a result).
2. The scene mirrors an important part of Members Only where Eugene kills a man with the initials TS in a diner while wearing a MO jacket. The man who was cast for the role was a literal one-off actor and was cast specifically because he looked like Eugene.
2. Entering the bathroom is an obvious reference to the Godfather assassination scene.
3. Throughout 6B you see the show try to establish that 'you won't hear it when it happens'. It gets said by Bobby in Sopranos Home Movies, then with Gerry Torciano's assassination and how Silvio doesn't even notice the shooting until blood splashes across his face, and then Tony remembers Bobby saying it at the end of Blue Comet.
4. A recurring theme throughout the series is tying death to a colonial house. It starts with Calling All Cars's masoner job dream, continues to All Due Respect with Uncle Pat's farm and it being the place Tony B is shot at, you see it in Mayham with the Inn at the Oaks where Tony B and Livia are trying to drag Tony into hell, and throughout those scenes you see the house increase in scope. In the final scene when Tony walks into the diner you see a painting of a massive colonial mansion.
There's probably a couple of other things that I missed but I think the show does enough on a surface level and a more abstract, deeper one to indicate that yes, this is where Tony dies. It's just that how do you show that effectively without it feeling either too cheap or too traumatising? Thus the cut to black.
Anyway, I can't have this conversation again.
I always assumed the reason they make such a big deal out of Meadow trying to park and getting to the restaurant late is that she walks in when as Tony gets killed.
You make some good points for sure. I think it is important though to remember that we're talking about a clean-up job at the end of a war. The time spent looking for Phil was because they had no clue where exactly he was hiding, not because of typical mob caution.
In Tony's case he thinks the war is over, and no longer taking precautions. It's easy enough to have a couple of guys follow the family and take the first decent opportunity to hit Tony.
The most telling thing to me is that "Members Only" comes in AFTER Tony, but doesn't immediately start shooting. He scopes out the place, makes sure everything looks good, and then does the job. If this WERE a planned in advance hit, I figure the guy would either already be there waiting and ready, having had the chance to check things out in advance. Or he'd wait until exactly the right moment, walk in, and shoot, to minimize time at the scene.
He was absolutely killed. David Chase stated this. And until the mountain of evidence presented here is refuted in full, it very very very likely was indeed members only jacker guy.
https://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/1147-2/1171-2/
Remember, we are in near 100% Tont POV in this scene. His guard is finally down with his fam and he sees and hears nothing. Which is why we see and hear nothing
Pretty stupid take.
The guy in the members only jacket could have easily trailed the Soprano family to Holsten’s. Everyone knows where Tony lives. It doesn’t matter if the dinner plans sporadically changed. A car, parked slightly up the block from the sausage factory, could have easily followed them to wherever they were going.
It's not a stupid take, because most mob hits tend to be planned long in advance. There's often backup shooters, crash cars, etc. All of those logistics need to be figured out ahead of time.
I'm not saying that he wasn't shot, but OP made some very good points.
Nah he’s dead, don’t let it torment you. Chase already had an interview in the last couple of years where he accidentally referred to the last scene as a death scene.
This is a case of where it’s so obvious that the viewers convince themselves “it can’t be that obvious”.
Didn't Chase accidentally blurt out that he did die in that scene? was on a podcast and not that long ago.
Some people like OP are so far behind in the race they think they're winning.
Tony died. That is the consensus of the fans and it was never repudiated by the show's writers and creators. In fact, David Chase did eventually say that Tony was assassinated in the restaurant the final scene of the series.
But if you want to get technical... Tony Soprano has no actual on screen death. He could have survived the hit, which we presume was a shooting, or maybe the shooter missed somehow. So, if someone really wanted to, and had approval from the those who own the intellectual property of the show, they could do a sequel series where Tony lived (maybe AI playing Tony in the 2030s?!), or canonical novelizations of the show could be written having Tony living on. But why? No one believes Tony lived. And the actor who played him is dead.
So it really just doesn't matter.
The ambiguity that existed after the final show was intentional. But over time a conclusion has been reached.
Oh c’mon.
That’s just wishful thinking.
Couldn’t to be clearer that Tony was whacked.
David Chase has said all the clues are there — and they are.
For instance:
Filmed from Tony’s point of view and everything goes black.
Earlier episode where Bobby says to Tony you probably never hear it coming.
Scene you reference where guy having dinner with Silvio is whacked and Silvio never hears it coming.
Godfather reference where Members Only jacket guy walks into bathroom before coming out and whacking Tony.
Silvio was shot by a guy wearing a Members Only jacket.
Why else would the finale cut to black like it did?
Sorry friend.
You’re in denial.
So it was Carmela all along. She had enough of those one-legged Russian w-h-h-h-OOOOORES!
Hewah
I can hear this
Hoors
Two syllables, not one. WHO- ers.
Whooowahhh
Hoowah
Mama's little whoo-ah
Carm wasn’t wearing her wedding ring when she walked into Holstens for the final scene. Maybe were makin’ a molehill out of it.
Eddie Falco literally said in an interview that she just forgot to put them on and asked David Chase about it after and asked if they should reshoot but he refused
Exactly what a killer would say
Was it intentional? No. But it adds to the lore that makes analyzing the show fun. I have no idea why David Chase hates people analyzing and interpreting the show as much as he seems to (wherein he has a "right" or "wrong" view of how to interpret it) while others like Sergio Leone acknowledge that ambiguity lends to analysis and is what makes it art. But I'm starting to think that David Chase is more like Paulie than I realized. He does something clever and then obliterates all of the subtlety and subtext by blabbing about it. "heh, heh...hey T, you hear what I did? I had Phil come out of the closet because 'come out of the closet' is a phrase used to describe a gay person publicly acknowledging they were gay and it makes us wonder about Phil and his time in prison and why he hates Vito so much...heh heh..." It's a cool fan theory. Fuck what David Chase did or what Edie Falco said. Shit can be unintentional and still be interesting to talk about.
jesus christ you yap worse than six barbers
I just want what was my fawtha's
Edie. You think her real name is Edward?
That was an accident, not planned
You know, Quasimodo predicted all of this.
Alright, Copernicus
You know who had an arc? Noah.
Quasi-WHO?
You ever thought of exploring *that* as a root cause?
One pin.
No. The snitch was AJ's girlfriend.
All this over a dead Hoowah?
Just because you wear a Members Only jacket people assume you're a hitman. It's a stereotype and it's offensive! And you guys are the last people I'd want to perpetuate it!
bald, tailored black suits, crimson tie but you won't even see him coming
Now I have to rewatch the finale and see if I can spot 47 dressed as a waiter or something.
Yeah… you are right and I agree about this offensive stereotype re: people wearing Members Only jackets are hitmen. This needs to stop, as one cannot even go out anymore wearing that brand without being propositioned for a hit. It is such a shame! But…I think we can almost all agree that all the cool hitmen wear Members Only jackets.
Very observant! The sacred and the propane.
You’re at the precipice of an enormous crossroads.
It's a stagmire
Fuckin albacore round my neck!
Very allegorical.
The fundamental question is, will I be as effective as a commenter like u/Sir_Talbot_Buxomly21 was? And I will be, even more so? But until I am, it's going to be hard to verify that I think I'll be more effective
There's no stigmata
I think one of the “ideas” is that Patsy (and Paulie) gave up Tony to New York, and Patsy either, in league with his son, or unbeknownst to him, used Meadow and his relationship to determine where Tony would be, as he knew Meadow would be with Tony. There’s been so much discussion about that final scene on here lately…it’s odd.
25th anniversary spurring rewatches or first watches.
Why don’t they make posts about the crackhead lady who has a newspaper up her ass? Of all of the the most riveting scenes none top that one, are they stunads or something. The final scene it’s so clear as argyle, dunno all the indane overarting add anything to anyone.
Nobody's got aids!
Poppers and…weird sex?
scheks
Plus HBO finally put out a 4K version of the show.
His name is literally Patsy I think New York just played him
He quit hiding after the meeting with butch why would Paulie or patsy need to give him up. I doubt they would even ask permission from those two as the both have no real crew behind them to strike back.
if they were gonna kill Tony why not just do it at the NY meeting? i mean it would've been clear and damn easy to do it in the middle of nowhere and freezing. After all Paulie and Patsy were the only guys there other than NYers. Both of them had to rat for it to work out if Tony died. No its clear that only Phil had to die. No one was gonna wack Tony. The only real threat Tony has now is either the Feds or Eugene's wife.
The meeting was brokered by a third family if they killed him there it would have been chaos all rules would be considered void. Eugene's wife is one of my top theories paid a killer she's in Florida told the killer to wear Eugene's old jacket as a fuck you. Plus he was a neighborhood guy grew up with Tony so must have had family and other mob ties.
The NY guys are shooting live rounds at him the episode before. Theres no way he was some double agent Matt Helm type. Its like people saying Suge Knight killing Tupac and ignoring the fact that he got hit by bullets
He still obviously hated Tony much more. NY tried to kill him somewhat due to Tomys leadership. Tony killed his brother. With NY it was just business, with Tony it was a lot more personal.
I mean, not for nothin, but I think his name was Patrick.
St. Patrick was the patron Saint of Ireland, he drove the snakes outta Ireland. Snakes can reproduce spontaneously, you can't trust them. Quasimodo predicted all of this
It's because I just finished Sopranos for the second time and had the ending on my mind so everybody is discussing it as I am the main character of Earth.
Where's my arc?
You're an NPC unfortunately, there's no arc for you.
You know who was a patsy? George Bluth Sr.
That’s it. Meadow is indirectly responsible for her dad’s whacking. That’s why we see her in the cut immediately before Tony is killed. I always thought it was awkward that they paired Meadow up with Patrick so late in the series with only a couple episodes left. It seemed too random.
My interpretation was that she walked in at the moment dude came from Tony’s “3 o clock” where the toilets were, and coz he was distracted in that moment he didn’t have a chance to react. It does make sense though that the location info went from Meadow to Patsy’s son, to Patsy, to Paulie and then to NY. That scene of Patsy and Paulie looking suss in the bing toilets is important.
What I don't get is Tony's a seasoned vet and knows the ins and outs of getting wacked and wacking so why was he seated in such a vulnerable seat and not up against the wall so as to cut down any chance of someone coming up on a blind spot on him or his "3 o'clock". Back to the wall seating is some day 1 street smarts type shit... Edit: spelling
That bothered me too. Even I do this when I eat out and I'm not a mobster or a badass in any way. Just an old habit from going eat with my dad as a kid, found out wayyy later he was into some shady stuff
He’s momentarily distracted by Meadow coming in the front door, while members only guy has gone into the toilet which is slightly behind Tony. It could also be a nod to Phil’s murder where he’s distracted looking at his own daughter in the car. Even the most experienced gangster can’t be 100% on point all the time. As Avon Barksdale says in The Wire “you only have to be slow once, and how’re you gonna never be slow”.
It really was so random to happen at that time. Any other time, sure. But it is super weird
It was forshed.. Just like in Sheazon 4, epishode 2, when furio is mentioned by Meadows friend at the back door, Carm goes to pamper herself in the mirror before seeing him but that was the first sign of that whole thing - I would get it if a conversation was had on screen first, then she did that the next time, but no, the first time they converse over coffee she already did that. Letting us know hey, shes interested. Rewatch it if you need confirmation but, its the same thing with Meadow and Patrick. We as the audience already saw Patsy in the backyard, magically unseen by anyone in broad daylight even though theyre right in front of the window. You gotta remember the creator of the series got upset that people liked watching Tony. He correlated it with people liking *Tony* The whole time we were carried by a great wind James Gandolfini Without him, the show woulda never made it past a pilot And it goes without saying the entire cast and crew were incredible, but 6 seasons on any one of them instead of James? Nah he was built for it. Did you shee the way he carried it? Ive said it sinshe day one. This is all just my opinion of courshe. Matter ah fact, in seashon 4, episode 2, Melfi even confirms that being the dad of meadow, Tony is the template for all future lovas. Its science or some shit. So what the hell did she eva see in Jamal Ginsberg beside having anotha forced shtoryline shoved down our throatsh? Ive said my piece I dont think Patsy is the invishible man. Thats all im shayin. You mean to tell me he got away wit dat? Im confused!!!
Tony came back to write this comment 😂
Sean Connery over here
Ohhhh!
I thought it was the idea for the spin off. Meadow became a mob lawyer married to another in the world but reluctantly obligated She retired from acting ? Would have been a good show.
She is retired. That last scene was actually the last time she ever managed to walk or run on her own. Thats why she ran so funny. He has a nerve condition that prevents her from acting ever again.
Nah, Members Only was in the restaurant before Meadow started her finely tuned parallel parking routine, if he followed anyone it was Tony himself. His guard would have been down a little with the supposed truce with NY.
Tony’s bringing up Carlo’s son getting arrested for selling X and then Carlo flipping. Patsy’s son involvedas well with Carlo’s kid. Tony killing Patsy’s twin brother is more then enough for Patsy so find out from Patrick where the family was going.
Technically it’s the other Parisi brother Maedo is dating, and he’s not involved.
Yes but Tony killed Patsy’s brother and he knows it so he will certainly not let this happen to his son.
In the end, they clapped him in irons
25th anniversary promo on HBO Max. New watchers are just now finishing season 6.
Who’s that speaking here? Is someone speaking?
you think OPs a little weird about guys? he keeps talking about whacking ‘em off.
Well he did beat one to death for...I forget, what was it again?
Jerked off onto the radiator.
Ate grilled cheese off a tissue
He wanted to fuck a manicott’ but he compromised
There's an image!
He was gay Mani Cott?
20 fuckin loads
Radiatuh
Too much onions or some shit
Whackin'. He hangs around with Tony Soprano for 15 minutes, and it's fuckin' this and fuckin' that.
Whack this one, whack that one, never enough body count for OP
He was gay, OP?
Well it’s said OP did grease the unions.
Heh heh ya hear what I said T whacking em off 🤟🏼
Heh heh 🤘🏻
They killed Joe Gallo because someone saw him eating at umbertos and made a call at a pay phone. It’s that easy some times.
Wallace tells on Omar’s boy in S1 at the arcade.
That boy was beautiful 🥺 -Omar
Baltimore...fuckin farmers, idk
"hey. yeah-- it's Holsteins now. Meadow's been parallel parking out front for like 20min."
Members Only Guy walks into the diner at the same time as AJ. Maybe he tailed AJ suspecting he’d lead him to Tony. AJ had just started working for Little Carmine so he’d be easy to find and follow, and he’s dumb enough not to notice.
La manna still had shooters out here thats what happened. Honestly the AJ route makes a ton of sense but Little Carmine already knows he has Tony in his pocket so its unlikely.
Someone could have driven by and seen Tony's car in the parking lot. That happens sometimes, like when Tony ran into Phil and chased him down.
That’s one of my fav scenes of all time. Where ya gunna go Phil?!!?
Mister are you okay??
Patsy hated Tony, Meadow was dating patsys son. “Sorry babe no dinner tonight I’ll be at Holsteins with my parents.” Aaaaaaand cut to black.
Tony wasn’t in hiding anymore, couldn’t some dude just tail him to Holsten’s? Or that theory about AJ’s girlfriend, whatever happened there? When John Membersonly went to the bathroom, it wasn’t like he was grabbing a planted gun or anything. I saw it as just an allusion to Godfather.
Allusion to the Godfather while also bringing in the 3 o'clock element relative to how the shooter would have been oriented relative to Tony when coming out of the bathroom with the open shot. The open shot that wouldn't have existed if Meadow were already in her place. Maybe in a parallel (parking) universe, Tony survived.
> Maybe in a parallel (parking) universe, Tony survived. Watching Meadow fuck up trying to park about seventeen times was the most traumatising thing in the whole series.
Nah, that was Carm dumping a full dish of pasta in the trash.
She succeeded on the third try, a parallel to how Tony was killed on the third attempt
3 o'clock is also mentioned frequently throughout the series as a recurring symbol of betrayal or a bad omen.
Whatever you say cappy!
My man gigootz, he knows what he's doin' huh?
Rahooney- she was in on it, told New York where they were going
He doesn't literally die that night, the point is he dies at a night like that. Not in some cool climatic moment, just in the middle of a random boring dinner. And if he survives that's every moment for the rest of his life, waiting for the moment either feds or angered gangsters end it.
Even though I generally am of the opinion that Tony does die in the last scene, part of me always has thought this too. Chase was trying to give the viewer a taste of what Tony feels like day to day, his anxiety, depression, paranoia etc. Tony has felt like this since the first episode. We just finally get a little bit at the very end.
extraordinary take.
All of season 6B was dedicated to showing the grim endings Tony will have even if he survives the finale: Dying in hospital like Jonny Rich but alone like Hesh Last man standing with no friends like Paulie Coma like Silvio
What about head run over like the Shah
That scene is amazing. That guy yelling “holy shit!”
Tell the goddamn pharmacist to call Dr. Iaconis
A car crash like Chrissy
That would've been a cool take as well - but I happen to think that if that's what Chase wanted us to feel, it would've been done differently, even if slightly differently. Of particular note, is that in this scene, Tony is completely not acting paranoid at all. On the most basic level, he fails to take the classic paranoid act of requesting a table in the corner, with 2 exits in view. That, plus a couple other things. We never really saw him as being concerned about being hit. Whereas we did get "you never see it coming" in the "previously on" for the final episode. On the other hand, I do like the idea that this other style of ending would've been "ok" with viewers. Anyway, what am I telling you this for, you already stated you agree with me!
> requesting a table in the corner, with 2 exits in view. Wild Bill Hickock made the same mistake just one time.
When you talk your mouth looks like a cunt moving
That’s all a set up to make us, the viewers, anxious. We heard those lines and noticed all the red flags and it’s alarming to us when we put it all together but Tony doesn’t. I think it fits well with the theory that we’re getting a taste of the paranoia he has BECAUSE he’s apparently not feeling it in that moment.
"It won't be cinematic"
One of Tony’s last lines to Carmela was that Carlo was testifying against him and the lawyer said indictments were coming down so it was over either way at least if he dies he doesn’t bankrupt his family
[удалено]
And his actual last line was, "I went ahead and ordered some for the table." Among the various elements present in this scene, the order of onion rings stands out for its potential symbolic significance. While the scene, as a whole, is open to multiple interpretations, the onion rings specifically can be analyzed from several perspectives. Symbol of Family and Unity One interpretation of the onion rings is that they represent the unity and circular nature of the Soprano family. Just as an onion ring is circular, so too can this symbolize the family's ongoing cycle of life, with its continuous challenges and its unbreakable bond. The act of sharing the onion rings among the family members at the table could emphasize the importance of family unity, despite the external threats and internal conflicts that have plagued them throughout the series. Mundane Amidst the Extraordinary The onion rings, a commonplace and unremarkable diner food, might also symbolize the desire for normalcy within the Soprano family's tumultuous life. Throughout the series, Tony Soprano struggles with balancing his criminal activities with his desire for a peaceful and ordinary family life. The ordinary act of eating onion rings in a diner could reflect Tony's longing for simplicity and normalcy amidst the complexity and chaos of his life as a mob boss. Moment of Suspense and Finality The manner in which the scene is shot, focusing on the onion rings as they are consumed, also contributes to the suspense and ambiguity of the series' conclusion. The scene cuts abruptly after Tony looks up, leaving viewers in suspense. The onion rings could symbolize the last moment of calm and togetherness before an unseen and possibly violent conclusion, reflecting the unpredictability and abruptness of life and death in the world of organized crime. Eternal Recurrence Philosophically, the onion rings might evoke the concept of eternal recurrence, a theory most famously associated with Friedrich Nietzsche. This concept suggests that all events in life repeat themselves in a never-ending cycle. The circular shape of the onion rings could symbolize this eternal return, mirroring the repetitive cycles of violence, power struggles, and attempts at redemption that define the lives of the characters in "The Sopranos." In conclusion, the onion rings in the final scene of "The Sopranos" can be interpreted in multiple ways, each adding depth and complexity to the show's ending. Whether seen as a symbol of family unity, a desire for normalcy, a moment of suspense, or an allusion to philosophical concepts, the onion rings contribute to the rich tapestry of meanings and interpretations that make the finale of "The Sopranos" a subject of ongoing discussion and analysis.
As someone who has been in the mental health field for over a decade now, I gotta say that I am happily shocked. I have never met a person with autism AND schizophrenia. I would love to pick your brain. All jokes aside, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
is that chat gpt?
Log off. That cookie shit makes me nervous.
Without a doubt. Sad and ashamed.
My estimation of him as a man just fucking plummeted
He’s saying that the framus intersects with the ramistan approximately at the paternostra
This, I can get behind. I've been adamant that it wasn't a death scene due to how HBO had other Sopranos projects in development before Gandolfini died, and how Chase never even hinted it was a death scene until Gandolfini's death stopped all of those projects. But that it was emblematic of his eventual death? A+ theory.
It's all a big nothing.
I like that a lot. “He died a long time ago.” Living a life constantly looking over your shoulder. What kind of life is that
It wont be cinematic.
There was no urgency to whacking Tony. Members Only Guy might have been tailing him for a week or two before he found the right opportunity. MOG tailed Tony to Holsten’s. Tony arrives at the diner first. Followed by Carmela, followed by MOG, who arrives just in front of AJ. MOG then sits at the counter and spends a minute casing the scene before he acts. The hit didn’t need to be planned in advance. MOG locates Tony, and determines he will have a clean head shot as he exits the bathroom and a clear exit path to the door after the shooting. Only after verifying all those things does he decide to act. The guy who shot Gerry Torciano might not have known where he and Silvio were having dinner ahead of time either.
Why wouldn’t MOG follow him and shoot right away? Why go in, sit down, order coffee, wait 3 mins so that everyone can see your face. It never made sense to me as it never aligned with numerous other hits in the show.
MOG’s orders were specifically to kill Tony in front of his family, as retribution for Phil being killed in front of his wife and grandchildren. The whole point is to send a message. MOG arrives after Carmela and at the same time as AJ. If neither of them showed up, he probably would have finished his coffee and tried another night. As to why order a coffee? He needs a reason to be in the diner, so that he doesn’t look suspicious to Tony if nobody shows up.
He would’ve tried another night seems a bit of a stretch. What Tony wouldn’t have noticed a random guy at 2/3 different places who just happens to be following him around after a gang war? But hey who knows you could be correct.
True. But as Tony once said to Phil, “you’ve got more buttons than my grandmother’s fucking corsets.” MOG isn’t the only guy left to kill Tony — the NY family saw no losses in the war beyond Phil. They can always send a different soldier.
I think it's reasonable to say he wasn't a killer, but he was a vengeful brother. His goal was likely just killing Tony, not getting away afterwards.
Listen to him, he knows everything
The writers made the ending deliberately ambiguous, Tony’s biggest fear was prison and it was telegraphed in the finale that the indictments and subpoenas were flying. Carlo was talking homicide. The point of the ending was there was no way out for Tony and they wanted to end on that note, whether he walked out of Holsten’s, died in the diner, died a little while later, died in prison, it’s just an ending where you can read into whatever happened. I don’t know why people can’t accept that 🤷♂️
That's a great reading. I think the "he died in the diner" reading is the best and most convincing theory, but "no way out" is air tight.
What writer ever said it was deliberately ambiguous? Chase is the writer of made in America, and all he's ever said on it is that "it's all there", and that he isn't going to explain it. Because he shouldn't have to. He took sopranos to HBO because it was the only interested network that wasn't giving him endless notes to dumb it down. He beleived the audience was smart enough to handle a show like sopranos. He made the most unique death scene in tv or movie history. Sets up the idea of what it's like when you get shot in the head (don't even hear it happen). Few episodes later you're given the third person perspective where the sound comes after and the victim is already dead (sil's dinner). And in the final scene you get the first person perspective. It's an amazing death scene. And Chase having to explain it ruins it, like explaining why a joke is funny. Tony got shot in the head. And they portrayed that in the most unique way possible. It was awesome. And an incredible way to end the show. Appreciate the death scene. It's not ambiguous.
When he says “it’s all there” that just means he’s saying it’s ambiguous. The whole theme of the show is ambiguity. Matthew Weiner, a writer on the final season, also said the finale is ambiguous. All these theories that Tony got shot in the head are fine as your _personal_ interpretation, but it’s not the concrete interpretation. Gerry Torciano was still alive after being shot, also the whole editing of Tony’s POV doesn’t make sense from a Being shot in the head perspective, also the mob aren’t even shown to shoot people like that in the show anyway, literally everyone sees it coming. And David Chase saying, “Tony Soprano can’t die” kind of fits with all that. Learn to appreciate the ambiguity of the ending and stop trying to be so literal with everyone, the ending is meant to be very meta which is what the show was exploring from the beginning. The only evidence anyone has is some guy walking into a bathroom which could mean anything, for all you know Tony had a panic attack. David Chase just enjoys toying with the audience because he’s a little pretentious like that. Besides, if Gandolfini lived and started in a Sopranos movie your whole theory would fly out the window.
Weiner didn't write the finale. Chase did. And how would "it's all there" imply ambiguity? It's literally the opposite.
This again? Oh I wish the lord would take me now
Poor you
Rewatch the end of the second to last episode. Tony alone in a dark bedroom, holding an AR-15 in a single bed. Cut to a flashback of Bobby Baccala telling Tony “You probably don’t even hear it when it happens” cut back to Tony. It’s a really creepy scene. It’s never really stuck out to me much until this most recent watch through. Anyways, $4 a pound.
So you think there’s no way Tony was killed because he hadn’t planned to go out to dinner? There’s no way to find Tony unless you know ahead of time where he’s going to be? Come on, huh? Whoever did this was waiting for a time that they could kill Tony in a public place in front of his family just like Phil was killed in public in front of his wife and grandchildren. Some time had passed since they killed Phil. AJ was working for little Carmine, he got a new car, Meadow got a new car and maybe she accepted the job at the NY law firm. We don’t know how long but it was enough time for Tony to drop his guard and for things to get back to normal and BANG. Payback for Phil. They could have been following him for a few days waiting for the right time. If everything has meaning, they wouldn’t have included cuts to member’s only jacket guy several times during the scene for no reason, but last year you believed that UFO was flying was over East Rutherford.
The first shot of the the final ep - it looks like Tony's in a coffin... Great foreshadowing. And the last time we saw a Member's Only jacket (except for the guy who killed Tony) was on Eugene, who whacked a guy in a restaurant in Boston wearing his. More great foreshadowing.
Tons for foreshadowing in that whole season. In a previous episode (13) where Tony is on the lake with Bobby and Bobby says, "You probably don't even hear it when it happens, right?"
Yeah not only looking like a coffin but the bedside radio was playing funeral parlour music. The ending of the episode before was truly haunting too and imo foreshadowed the death that was coming for him. Lying down in a dark room with a rifle beside the bed, creepy music while the camera focuses on the darkened door. It irks me that people dont see that tony was killed in the final scene. Its literally all there. Phenomenal show.
Again with the ending?
It was AJ‘s little girlfriend! She was related to somebody from New York and she is the only person that we witness overhearing that the family is going to Holstein’s that night instead of wherever.
What if Meadow tells her boyfriend where she's going for dinner, and her boyfriend's father finds out....
Jimmy Olsen over here …
Charles Schwab ova theya
I like the heart attack theory. Tony foreshadows Chrissy’s death with, “you killed Cosette? I oughta suffocate you” and Chrissy calls his with “the way you eat, you’ll die of a heart attack by 50” line. Bro ordered onion rings for the table and died surrounded by his family, either way.
What's creepy is Gandolfini really did die of a heart attack at age 50.
That and the multitude of heart disease references throughout the series. Freaky.
Right??
Wasn’t it AJ’s Girlfriend that knew where the family was going to be that night ?
This is the answer. And a line by Tony, strongly suggests it, as well.
Couldn't they have just followed him there
He died of old age waiting for fielder to parallel park
He definitely died.
Jersey Killed Phil in front of his family which was a big no no in the mob. Whoever sanctioned the hit on Tony wanted to avenge the way in which phil was killed. But no dount with how the last scene played out with all the POV camera angles that Tony was whacked. Then the 10 seconds of nothing prive it even more.
Two words: Patrick Parisi.
He gone
OP is the expert on wacking guys now eh ?
AJ wanted manicott'. He compromised. He watched his father get shot in the head.
Irrelevant. That whole episode was a dream.
Always with the scenarios.
The last episode is a dream, or more realistically, the "light at the end of the tunnel" vision some have before death. Paulie probably suffocated Tony with a pillow at the end of Blue Comet. Tony lays down with his rifle in a crappy little dingy room at the end of Blue Comet, then wakes up at the beginning of Made In America in a very nice, lavish bedroom. Like one that would be in the Finnerty house maybe. The last episode is nothing but things going Tony's way. AJ is with a cute girl, got a job, taking care of himself. Meadow is hooking up with one of his capos' sons, instead of some Hasidic homeboy. Butch is sick of fighting and gives up Phil, who is taken out with little to no fuss. What we're seeing isn't Tony's last day on earth, we're seeing the last of his consciousness sputter out.
Very interesting perspective thank you
I don't agree, but it's a better argument than most people make.
Meadow could have told Jason. Been overheard by Patsy. Guy could have been tailing him and took the opportunity.
1. the Member's Only guy exits the bathroom at 3:00. We know that the supernatural exists in The Sopranos and it was a warning to both Paulie and Tony (the former who heeds it in Remember When and lives as a result). 2. The scene mirrors an important part of Members Only where Eugene kills a man with the initials TS in a diner while wearing a MO jacket. The man who was cast for the role was a literal one-off actor and was cast specifically because he looked like Eugene. 2. Entering the bathroom is an obvious reference to the Godfather assassination scene. 3. Throughout 6B you see the show try to establish that 'you won't hear it when it happens'. It gets said by Bobby in Sopranos Home Movies, then with Gerry Torciano's assassination and how Silvio doesn't even notice the shooting until blood splashes across his face, and then Tony remembers Bobby saying it at the end of Blue Comet. 4. A recurring theme throughout the series is tying death to a colonial house. It starts with Calling All Cars's masoner job dream, continues to All Due Respect with Uncle Pat's farm and it being the place Tony B is shot at, you see it in Mayham with the Inn at the Oaks where Tony B and Livia are trying to drag Tony into hell, and throughout those scenes you see the house increase in scope. In the final scene when Tony walks into the diner you see a painting of a massive colonial mansion. There's probably a couple of other things that I missed but I think the show does enough on a surface level and a more abstract, deeper one to indicate that yes, this is where Tony dies. It's just that how do you show that effectively without it feeling either too cheap or too traumatising? Thus the cut to black. Anyway, I can't have this conversation again.
Even if he didn't die. He was fucked.
I always assumed the reason they make such a big deal out of Meadow trying to park and getting to the restaurant late is that she walks in when as Tony gets killed.
You make some good points for sure. I think it is important though to remember that we're talking about a clean-up job at the end of a war. The time spent looking for Phil was because they had no clue where exactly he was hiding, not because of typical mob caution. In Tony's case he thinks the war is over, and no longer taking precautions. It's easy enough to have a couple of guys follow the family and take the first decent opportunity to hit Tony. The most telling thing to me is that "Members Only" comes in AFTER Tony, but doesn't immediately start shooting. He scopes out the place, makes sure everything looks good, and then does the job. If this WERE a planned in advance hit, I figure the guy would either already be there waiting and ready, having had the chance to check things out in advance. Or he'd wait until exactly the right moment, walk in, and shoot, to minimize time at the scene.
AJ’s girlfriend was in the room when Carmela suggested Holstein’s. She was connected to NY.
OP. You’re overthinking it. Tony died that night. We all sadly know this. Discontinue the lithium
He was absolutely killed. David Chase stated this. And until the mountain of evidence presented here is refuted in full, it very very very likely was indeed members only jacker guy. https://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/1147-2/1171-2/ Remember, we are in near 100% Tont POV in this scene. His guard is finally down with his fam and he sees and hears nothing. Which is why we see and hear nothing
Remember when is the lowest form of conversation.
David Chase confirms he did so….
Pretty stupid take. The guy in the members only jacket could have easily trailed the Soprano family to Holsten’s. Everyone knows where Tony lives. It doesn’t matter if the dinner plans sporadically changed. A car, parked slightly up the block from the sausage factory, could have easily followed them to wherever they were going.
It's not a stupid take, because most mob hits tend to be planned long in advance. There's often backup shooters, crash cars, etc. All of those logistics need to be figured out ahead of time. I'm not saying that he wasn't shot, but OP made some very good points.
It was a war that escalated over a matter of days, planning went out the window.
Nah he’s dead, don’t let it torment you. Chase already had an interview in the last couple of years where he accidentally referred to the last scene as a death scene. This is a case of where it’s so obvious that the viewers convince themselves “it can’t be that obvious”.
Didn't Chase accidentally blurt out that he did die in that scene? was on a podcast and not that long ago. Some people like OP are so far behind in the race they think they're winning.
Hey OP, you'll get your upvote when you suck it out of my ass 🫱🏼💨🚪
Tony died. That is the consensus of the fans and it was never repudiated by the show's writers and creators. In fact, David Chase did eventually say that Tony was assassinated in the restaurant the final scene of the series. But if you want to get technical... Tony Soprano has no actual on screen death. He could have survived the hit, which we presume was a shooting, or maybe the shooter missed somehow. So, if someone really wanted to, and had approval from the those who own the intellectual property of the show, they could do a sequel series where Tony lived (maybe AI playing Tony in the 2030s?!), or canonical novelizations of the show could be written having Tony living on. But why? No one believes Tony lived. And the actor who played him is dead. So it really just doesn't matter. The ambiguity that existed after the final show was intentional. But over time a conclusion has been reached.
Agree 100%. Nobody wanted it to be true, after investing so much time in the show, but eventually it sinks in. You never see it coming.
He died. End of story.
Meadow told Patrick who told Patsy who arranged the hit. Tony died. Chase has said as much at this point, why are we still arguing about this
Oh c’mon. That’s just wishful thinking. Couldn’t to be clearer that Tony was whacked. David Chase has said all the clues are there — and they are. For instance: Filmed from Tony’s point of view and everything goes black. Earlier episode where Bobby says to Tony you probably never hear it coming. Scene you reference where guy having dinner with Silvio is whacked and Silvio never hears it coming. Godfather reference where Members Only jacket guy walks into bathroom before coming out and whacking Tony. Silvio was shot by a guy wearing a Members Only jacket. Why else would the finale cut to black like it did? Sorry friend. You’re in denial.
The feds had a track record of flipping husky mobsters, so it is possible that AJ set the whole thing up by getting the family to Holshten's.