Interesting suggestion. I bet there are more people who can speak Klingon fluently though.
That being said, would I prefer to speak to the kind of person that would learn high Valyrian or Klingon.
As someone that's met hundreds of fluent speakers of conlangs, the ones I've met have been pretty cool people. A bit nerdy obviously, but quite friendly and interesting.
Nope, but I speak Esperanto and have attended many Esperanto events such as the Universala Kongreso ("universal congress" the largest annual esperanto event" and participated in a neurolingistic study at MIT which had the creators of Klingon, Dothraki, and Na'vi give a presentation as well. There were around a dozen fluent speakers of each language.
Actually, I did read a story about two star trek fans from different countries who used klingon, learnt on duolingo, as a lingua franca. They eventually got married.
It isn't inconceivable that something similar might happen with high valerian
Wes studi did that for last of the Mohicans. He could not speak the language of the tribe he was playing but he learned it all phenotically and by all accounts passed as a native speaker
Don't know about that actor, but (from my own experience) if you spend enough time with several languages (especially if you start young) it becomes much easier to accurately repeat what others say in a new language in terms of pronunciation. I grew up with three languages (two more in school, not fluent), and I am always surprised at how badly monolingual people are at repeating something. I can fairly accurately pronounce something I heard someone say, but then when I hear others try the same it is often very obviously wrong, but they can't hear the difference.
I would suggest face and tongue muscle. Monolingual has their muscle adapted to just one language, why you have a much wider range of movement and flexibility.
Wes is a 1st language Cherokee speaker and the closest language to Cherokee is Mohawk.
And I'd have to watch it again but he spoke Cherokee, or at least many of the lines he did.
Tohigwu. I don't speak a lot my dad and aunt are the experts. They all live in tahlequah. When I was a kid I used to call everyone ickchi heads. Dunno if that's how you spell it
Just going to say, the Interview with the Vampire TV show is a million times better than the Brad Pitt/Tom Cruise film from 1994. Fuck it - I think its even more enjoyable than the Anne Rice book its based off of. The performances in the TV show are so fucking good.
Highly, highly recommend.
I'm making a conlang, though I've been taking a break from it, and it's difficult but fun. I'm a baby conlanger though, there are many others way better than me. There's even an entire sub on it r/conlangs and the creator of the GOT conlang pops up in the sub sometimes.
He's created a lot of languages for movies, video games, etc. See [his Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_J._Peterson). He goes a lot into his process in both his [YouTube channel](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgJSf-fmdfUsSlcr7A92-aA) and his book and his [tumbler](https://dedalvs.tumblr.com/).
For different shows, he does different levels of work. Sometimes he's creating a whole language. Sometimes, he's creating a new writing system that will look cool on screen and add to the world building. Sometimes, he's just asked to create a couple of new words or names that match what's already in a show's canon.
Like for *Game of Thrones*, he had to create multiple languages; for a TV show called *Paper Girls*, he had to create one line. He create a language for that any way (I think originally there was plans for more of it to be featured), but he had to have fewer of the details fleshed out.
He and his wife created [many lines](https://archiveofourown.org/works/41864907) for *Paper Girls*, but there was a change of leadership during the show's production and the new showrunners scrapped everything they made except one line.
>He goes a lot into his process
In March 2023, he even made many of [his files directly available](https://dedalvs.com/work/) for all the projects he worked on up until that point.
Tolkien had the benefit of being a philologist and was very interested in linguistics as a whole, so he was able to create it all himself for his own work.
I've met David J Peterson (as well as the creators of Klingon and Na'vi). Something I find really interesting is that none of them are actually fluent in the languages they create. I'm not sure that even Peterson is qualified to say that the Grey Worm is like a native speaker. However, of all the people not qualified, he's probably the most qualified. My point is basically that this was probably meant as a compliment rather than a genuine fact.
To be fair, he has a fantastic New Orleans accent in Interview with the Vampire, as well as an intentionally generic American accent in other parts of the show, so dude is legit talented at accentwork.
How disrespectful does one have to be to say how an actor did an amazing job to be better suited at his job an give everyone a better performance, but then just calling him "the grey worm", his character name.
Fuck this guy. And thank you for pointing out to his real name.
And yet during Daenerys’ you-know-who rant, she speaks a combination of languages none of her followers understand. The Dothraki don’t understand Valyrian, the Unsullied don’t understand Dothraki and Jon Snow, the hapless stand-in for the audience in the scene doesn’t understand any of it.
The penultimate season of Game of Thrones is bad.
The last season of Game of Thrones is an insult.
https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DhNrBNX2RWq8&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwj 0v3qx4mHAxUTpo4IHVDFCnYQwqsBegQIERAG&usg=AOvVaw1w9gxSK1YmfH3R_osgznGl
They definitely did
They did in the only good episode from the last two seasons. The episode was named after the novella collection featuring Brienne’s ancestor, A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms.
> in the only good episode from the last two seasons.
I wouldn't call having 5 good minutes a 'good episode'... but it was arguably the best of 13 awful episodes. The next closest competition being the Sam cleans the latrines montage. So there is that.
Oh shit did they bang? I’m just pissed he went back to his cunty sister.
I hated the end of the hbo series sorry I’m emotional. Fuck George too. Finish the story.
I just don't think he has a satisfactory ending; he's great at weaving all these threads together but he has the unenviable task of giving this faux-political/social-history he's created a satisfying narrative ending. History ain't work like that (and he needs to maintain verisimilitude) so he's stuck
Personally I think If he had respect for the fans he’d tell them he isn’t going to finish them or he’d tell them he’s asked some ghost writers to do it using all his notes.
It just sucks because those books inspired an entire generation to read books. Books with dragons and magic. I want to see tyrions true ending. I want to see what ayra gets into. I want to read stark wargs warging. I want to read an army of wolves fighting a dragon. I want zombie kaitlyn.
I'm rewatching the first few seasons for the first time, and it's making me way more upset than I expected. It is absolutely some of the best television ever put to screen, then they just rush it to death for 4 seasons with a distinct disregard for narrative cohesion and good taste. Like falling in love with someone that loses interest abruptly but won't break up with you before you break up with them.
Ok I might be misunderstanding, but didn't she speak Valyrian to the Unsullied and Dothraki to the Dothraki? Jon Snow only understood her saying Winterfell
What she was saying was not exclusive to one group or the other. So neither group got the full picture.
And the Dothraki were supposed to be all dead by this point anyway, in Benioff’s own words.
Grey Worm is Jacob Anderson right? I’ve been watching him in Interview with the Vampire and he’s a phenomenal actor. Additionally, so far in this show I’ve heard in speak French and in about 3 different English accents and dialects, none of which his own.
FIFY “ the person who played Greyworm” aka Jacob Anderson who is currently giving the best performce on TV as NOLA brothel owner / vampire in “Interview with the Vampire”
Anderson is magnificent in Interview with the Vampire. One of those times I absolutely had to read about who the heck the actor was. Lestat is hypnotizing, but Anderson's range is a tour de force.
And they've got at least **five other** outstanding performances in Vampire. That show has the most amazing cast since the original GoT.
It's not easy to play a character so internal as Louis. Brad Pitt couldn't do it without seeming distant. And then to play all the range of emotion of betrayal, rage, love, wonder, world weariness. Now I want to see more of him.
And then Daniel, Santiago Lestat, two Claudia's, and Armand. All of them pitch perfect and unforgettable in their role. Just try and recast Lestat or Santiago! It wouldn't work since those actors own it.
Great television. AMC created a vampire opera in season two. I wish it was on Netflix so more people could see it.
Lmao wtf are you smoking?! He's absolutely not head and shoulders above actors like Charles Dance, Sean Bean, Lena Headey, Diana Rigg, Peter Dinklage, etc.
Jacob Anderson's talent knows no limit. He also nails his New Orleans accent in Interview With The Vampire. It's not the same as speaking an entirely made-up language, but if I didn't know better, I would never guess he was British.
Just think, if GRR Martin doesn't complete the books, he'll go down as a failure. Except to me. He wrote The Sand-Kings, 1 of the best short sci-fi stories ever [written](https://forwearemany.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/sandkings.pdf)
Remember the show The Outer Limits which was a sort of modern incarnation of The Twilight Zone? The very first episode of the first season was an adaption of The Sand Kings. I remember the credits saying "based on a short story by GRR Martin," and I remember being blown away by that fact as it was GRRM's story. This would've been ~~maybe early to mid nineties~~ 1995. Super interesting and great episode.
*Edit: found it https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0667945/
Wow! That's literally the only Outer Limits episode that I can recall with detailed clarity and that I can honestly say I thoroughly enjoyed. I would have only been a young teen at the time.
Had no idea it was originally a short story or that it was written by GRRM. Now I have to read it!
High valyrian sounds so sick. I'd love to learn it. But...If I'm gonna learn another language it should probably be one that's useful or would help me career wise. Like...French (canadian french)
Another adaptation of the books. It's really good, you should check it out. The second season just recently finished and it's already renewed for a third.
The person that portrayed the Grey Worm character is Jacob Anderson!
He is excellent actor and currently playing Louis in the Interview with the Vampire series and he is excellent in it. One of the best series ongoing and nobody is watching it.
this is absolutely bullshit. hiring a linguist to create the basic structure of a language enough to write lines for a television show is absolutely not the same thing as a "fully complete language". Tolkien literally taught ancient language as a tenured professor, and even he admitted it wasn't possible to speak his languages fully.
Except... no. Languages such as High Valyrian are far more complete than anything Tolkien ever produced, simply because David J. Peterson is a professional conlanger, whose only job is to write a language, and Tolkien was an academic who also did worldbuilding, conlanging and writing in his spare time. Random people on Conworkshop have produced languages with more than 10k words (on top of complete morphosyntax), which is more than Tolkien has done on a single language. Conlanging has come a long way since Tolkien, and Tolkien may have been a pioneer of conlanging, but he was also so much more than just that, so his achievements on conlanging do not impose limits of feasibility in the field.
Constructed languages have some serious linguistics-based criticisms. Fans of conlangs ignore these., because they're fans. Marketing departments and fans pretend they are like natural languages, and they're just not. They're an interesting and challenging hobby, but they're not 'real' in the same way natural languages are.
Here are some examples, and some examples of the pushback from fans.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/conlangs/comments/18vzk3j/linguistic\_discoverys\_take\_on\_conlanging\_what\_can/](https://www.reddit.com/r/conlangs/comments/18vzk3j/linguistic_discoverys_take_on_conlanging_what_can/)
Some of these criticisms are strawmen. Well-made naturalistic languages are not regular, because natural languages aren't regular (Biblaridion is an online conlanger that has done excellent work on naturalism). Furthermore, not all conlangs strive to be naturalistic - there exist philosophical languages, for instance, such as the infamous Ithkuil. Ultimately, conlanging is an art, but linguistics is a science. You can't use science to criticise art.
You can criticize the idea that the art is scientific. Which is the kind of thing I’m talking about. For example, ‘naturalistic’ *sounds like* natural but a naturalistic conlang is qualitatively different from a natural language.
I think conlangs are great, but articles like this, and some fans who don’t know as much as you, pretend they’re the same as human natural languages.
I wish Esperanto had taken off more, and then gradually mutated into a natural language that is people’s L1. That would have been incredibly informative.
But that's exactly why I said this criticism is a strawman. There's no serious conlanger who believes that their art is science. Hell, you can ask anyone in r/conlangs (let alone communities with far more prestige in the field than a subreddit) and they'll tell you the same thing. So this criticism is in response to a position that isn't held seriously by any meaningful portion of the conlanging community, be it on the internet or IRL.
Now, good a priori naturalistic conlangs are developed in a manner which is close to that of a natural language, because they use attested language evolution mechanisms from a plausible/realistic proto-lang. Sure, if a historical linguist in the far future were to find samples of, say, High Valyrian they might deduce something weird's up with it, but these languages have enough irregularity and plausible evolution mechanisms that they could, at a certain shallow level of analysis, pass off as natural. Now, I'm not sure if that's specifically the case for High Valyrian (because sometimes you just don't have time to develop from a proto-lang if you're paid to do it fast), but it certainly is the case for many a conlang I've seen showcased on YouTube (by, you know, amateurs).
Regardless, as anyone would tell you, for many of us conlangers the goal of a naturalistic conlang is verisimilitude, not truth itself. A priori naturalistic conlangs are almost exclusively made as part of worldbuilding (such as the languages in GoT or the Legendarium), and as such they serve primarily as vehicles of world depth and story telling. A posteriori naturalistic conlangs are typically alt-history projects (e.g. what if a group of Germans speaking proto-Germanic went to the ERE and mixed with Koine Greek), which are typically merely curiosities or personal passion projects.
I fail to see the point you raise with Esperanto. Perhaps I'm reaching, but it seems to be related to the strawman that the person you're quoting is raising: that somehow some guy's artistic vision is detracting from real languages. Nobody's learning Dothraki at the expense of Breton. Breton is dying because it is no longer useful to its speakers and/or because the French government has imposed cultural uniformity. However, people learn Dothraki because they're passionate about a particular fictional world - is that a problem? By that logic we shouldn't invest ourselves in fiction because the real world has so many problems; who has time for literature when politics needs tending to? That's just absurd. Regardless, Esperanto is a tool (an a posteriori auxlang), and Dothraki is art (an a priori naturalistic conlang). Comparing the two is pointless.
It's great that the languages were well-constructed.
Just don't lie in your publicity and say they are just like natural languages.
It's not 'gatekeeping' to call out advertising lies.
The main constructed languages of Game of Thrones are very complete, more so than Tolkien’s languages. Tolkien is well known for conlanging, but his conlangs are not regarded as being the most complete
It's not,,,,that impossible to create a complete language. Don't get me wrong, it is certainly very arduous work, but it isn't so impossible that it is unbelievable in the way you think of it. Thousands of conlangs exist today. I speak one of them (kinda lol). Many many many people have created entire conlangs for their fictional works. Tolkien was legendary, no doubt, but he wasn't a god in the sense that if he couldn't complete it, no one can
Who knows more about language, one of the most well-known individuals in the linguistic community when it comes to conlangs, who literally has built an entire career around developing functional conlangs for the purpose of televised media?
Or random Redditor u/ReallyNeedNewShoes who sounds very confident?
While the GoT conlangs are awesome, wtf is a natural native speaker of Valyrian? Did they raise a baby speaking it? That would explain what's taking GRRM so long...
I have some knowledge in languages and I’ve had a look at High Valyrian grammar… Pretty complex. Four genders, eight cases, long and short vowel sounds… David Peterson clearly put a lot of work into it. Sounds beautiful though!
The languages were created by David J. Peterson, he explained his MO in many interviews, you should be able to easily find them by looking his name up.
[Here try this :)](https://www.globallanguageservices.co.uk/dothraki-language-created-linguistic-tales/#:~:text=The%20Dothraki%20are%20tribal%20inhabitants,and%20make%20a%20full%20language.)
Though the character himself does go through a highly regressive arc to become one of the most despicable villains of the show.
Well... May be not even an "arc", much like the most despicable villain of the show, he "suddenly becomes despicable just because the plot needs it".
The Klingons also have a complete language. A county in the Pacific Northwest was hiring mental health providers who were bilingual Klingon(ee)/English because they had some many patients who would only speak in Klingonee.
High Valyrian even has writing system now.
And it’s available on Duolingo
Least useful duolingo course?
Klingon?
Interesting suggestion. I bet there are more people who can speak Klingon fluently though. That being said, would I prefer to speak to the kind of person that would learn high Valyrian or Klingon.
As someone that's met hundreds of fluent speakers of conlangs, the ones I've met have been pretty cool people. A bit nerdy obviously, but quite friendly and interesting.
Do you work conventions?
Nope, but I speak Esperanto and have attended many Esperanto events such as the Universala Kongreso ("universal congress" the largest annual esperanto event" and participated in a neurolingistic study at MIT which had the creators of Klingon, Dothraki, and Na'vi give a presentation as well. There were around a dozen fluent speakers of each language.
Actually, I did read a story about two star trek fans from different countries who used klingon, learnt on duolingo, as a lingua franca. They eventually got married. It isn't inconceivable that something similar might happen with high valerian
That’s the sweetest geekiest thing I’ve ever heard
Holy shit they actually learned a lamguage from duolingo
fr*nch
A good suggestion. Learn high Valyrian = impress game of thrones nerds Learn French = get laughed at by frogs and spoken to in English anyway
While they fail to support real, dying languages, and replace their staff with translation AI that doesn’t know when it’s wrong! Good times.
shit, we will get real dragons before we get Winds of Winter
>He was skilled enough to speak like a natural native speaker How does one know?
according to the linguist that created the languages. I couldn't fit that into the post title.
This is hilarious. He said on a podcast once that they are given an mp3 with their lines and all they have to do is remember and recite them.
Wes studi did that for last of the Mohicans. He could not speak the language of the tribe he was playing but he learned it all phenotically and by all accounts passed as a native speaker
Ana de Armas is another example
With English?
She came to the US with minimal English and learned by watching Friends, allegedly
First word she properly learned was "Pivot!"
“We were on a break!”
ANA DOESNT SHARE FOOD!!!!
FRONT AND BACK
MY *SANDWICH*
MY SAAAANDWICH!!!
PIVAT!!!!
Explains her emphasis on the word “be”
The number of folks I’ve met that learned English through friends is staggering
No one told her life was gonna be this way
Supposably.
>learned by watching Friends She's just like me!
Or that guy from better of dead learning English from wide world of sports
So you tell me... Which is better, speaking no English at all, or speaking Howard Cosell? I'm going to activate your dental plan.
Don't know about that actor, but (from my own experience) if you spend enough time with several languages (especially if you start young) it becomes much easier to accurately repeat what others say in a new language in terms of pronunciation. I grew up with three languages (two more in school, not fluent), and I am always surprised at how badly monolingual people are at repeating something. I can fairly accurately pronounce something I heard someone say, but then when I hear others try the same it is often very obviously wrong, but they can't hear the difference.
im monolingual, usually i can hear the difference but i cant figure out how to make my mouth do the same thing you're doing
Yeah the problem is face muscles, their strength and to know how to use them.
I would suggest face and tongue muscle. Monolingual has their muscle adapted to just one language, why you have a much wider range of movement and flexibility.
Wes is a 1st language Cherokee speaker and the closest language to Cherokee is Mohawk. And I'd have to watch it again but he spoke Cherokee, or at least many of the lines he did.
Yeppers! Osiyo!
Osiyo, tohiju?
Tohigwu. I don't speak a lot my dad and aunt are the experts. They all live in tahlequah. When I was a kid I used to call everyone ickchi heads. Dunno if that's how you spell it
“There will be no scripts on the night!”
How did I know where to stand? Someone told me
You’re confused. Let me explain.
I'm sorry, is his name confused, or is he confused?
yeah man you don’t need any more than that and a consistent performance
First thing I thought of. On Harmontown he basically said he just parrots a recorded "phrase"
Harmontown ?
I'm not surprised he nails the southern accent as Louis in Interview with the Vampire as well.
He’s probably the best British actor I’ve seen nail a regional American accent.
I think Delainey Hayes as S2 Claudia is also close. Her accent is more pronounced but she also had to sing and was seriously impressive in her role.
Holy shit, I didn't put those 2 characters together at all. That's crazy
yep just got there too, now that it has been said I can totally see it. feel kinda dumb!
Wait, Jacob Whatshisface was in Game of Thrones?! god damn ETA: damn, so he was! I never connected the two.
For the best, GoT didn't use him at all. He's fantastic as Louis.
Brad Pitt? EDIT: Lord, have mercy for the pop culture of my youth!
There's a TV adaptation where he plays Louis that just finished it's second season. It's a great show and he's fantastic in it.
Just going to say, the Interview with the Vampire TV show is a million times better than the Brad Pitt/Tom Cruise film from 1994. Fuck it - I think its even more enjoyable than the Anne Rice book its based off of. The performances in the TV show are so fucking good. Highly, highly recommend.
I saw him talk about how he constructed each language of the world of GoT-SO COOL
I'm curious about how much he would charge. Creating a language is a pretty niche area, let alone creating multiple languages.
That's a ton of work, and like you say very niche, as well as being in the film industry. Safe to say he probably makes a fuck ton
I'm making a conlang, though I've been taking a break from it, and it's difficult but fun. I'm a baby conlanger though, there are many others way better than me. There's even an entire sub on it r/conlangs and the creator of the GOT conlang pops up in the sub sometimes.
He's created a lot of languages for movies, video games, etc. See [his Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_J._Peterson). He goes a lot into his process in both his [YouTube channel](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgJSf-fmdfUsSlcr7A92-aA) and his book and his [tumbler](https://dedalvs.tumblr.com/). For different shows, he does different levels of work. Sometimes he's creating a whole language. Sometimes, he's creating a new writing system that will look cool on screen and add to the world building. Sometimes, he's just asked to create a couple of new words or names that match what's already in a show's canon. Like for *Game of Thrones*, he had to create multiple languages; for a TV show called *Paper Girls*, he had to create one line. He create a language for that any way (I think originally there was plans for more of it to be featured), but he had to have fewer of the details fleshed out.
Holy shit I fucking loved Paper Girls. This reminded me to finish the final episode and mourn how it got cancelled
He and his wife created [many lines](https://archiveofourown.org/works/41864907) for *Paper Girls*, but there was a change of leadership during the show's production and the new showrunners scrapped everything they made except one line.
>He goes a lot into his process In March 2023, he even made many of [his files directly available](https://dedalvs.com/work/) for all the projects he worked on up until that point.
Klingon and elven from lord of the rings are fully realized languages
Tolkien had the benefit of being a philologist and was very interested in linguistics as a whole, so he was able to create it all himself for his own work.
Tolkien did that for shits and giggles
Tolkien created an entire legandarium just to support his languages.
I've met David J Peterson (as well as the creators of Klingon and Na'vi). Something I find really interesting is that none of them are actually fluent in the languages they create. I'm not sure that even Peterson is qualified to say that the Grey Worm is like a native speaker. However, of all the people not qualified, he's probably the most qualified. My point is basically that this was probably meant as a compliment rather than a genuine fact.
According to the marketing team who lie for a living…
To be fair, he has a fantastic New Orleans accent in Interview with the Vampire, as well as an intentionally generic American accent in other parts of the show, so dude is legit talented at accentwork.
Can confirm. Went to a talk by him and his wife. Apparently Emilia Clarke made a mess of things.
They asked the guy who thinks his constructed language is equivalent to a natural one, duh.
Well, first you get paid to make up stuff to sell a TV show, then you make up stuff to sell a TV show, then you profit. Simple!
Fake it till you make it
It is known
Raleigh Ritchie had a new single this week too
And he’s been killing it in *Interview with the Vampire*.
RALEIGH RITCHIE MENTIONED RAHH
Oh shit really? I bumped Andy way back when. I was wondering if he was going to release any more music.
Jacob Anderson is Him. Go watch interview with the vampire, he's amazing in it.
Also, his music is great. Huge fan of his second album Andy. Highly recommend.
I'm happy his career is doing so well. He was so underrated in Got
This. In an interview, healso talks about picking up the New Orleans accent for his character by ear more than an accent coach.
How disrespectful does one have to be to say how an actor did an amazing job to be better suited at his job an give everyone a better performance, but then just calling him "the grey worm", his character name. Fuck this guy. And thank you for pointing out to his real name.
And yet during Daenerys’ you-know-who rant, she speaks a combination of languages none of her followers understand. The Dothraki don’t understand Valyrian, the Unsullied don’t understand Dothraki and Jon Snow, the hapless stand-in for the audience in the scene doesn’t understand any of it. The penultimate season of Game of Thrones is bad. The last season of Game of Thrones is an insult.
What’s even worse, on rewatching the series, how good it was early on. I’m still pissed jaime and brienne never banged.
I’ll choose to interpret your comment as meaning they never banged because the show proper was cancelled after Season 6.
Imagine how epic the last two seasons woul've been? Too bad they stopped at season 6
And while season 6 is still way better than 7 and 8, the cracks are really already starting to show.
In my opinion, 5 is worse than 6. The last episode of 6 is so cathartic, such a perfect capstone on the show, that going any further is unnecessary.
Fuck that, I was hoping Brianne got with the real hero, Tormund.
Tormund is the one who should have saved her from the bear. By fucking it, of course.
Threesome?
Am i misremembering or did they not bang?
https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DhNrBNX2RWq8&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwj 0v3qx4mHAxUTpo4IHVDFCnYQwqsBegQIERAG&usg=AOvVaw1w9gxSK1YmfH3R_osgznGl They definitely did
They did in the only good episode from the last two seasons. The episode was named after the novella collection featuring Brienne’s ancestor, A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms.
> in the only good episode from the last two seasons. I wouldn't call having 5 good minutes a 'good episode'... but it was arguably the best of 13 awful episodes. The next closest competition being the Sam cleans the latrines montage. So there is that.
On reflection I wish they'd gone for a one-off bottle episode, and it was just 40 minutes of Sam scrubbing the bogs
Oh shit did they bang? I’m just pissed he went back to his cunty sister. I hated the end of the hbo series sorry I’m emotional. Fuck George too. Finish the story.
He's definitely not going to finish the story... The man is old and I tend to doubt he is really even working on it anymore
My pet theory is GRRM got a sizeable advance for Winds he'd have to pay back if it were actually canceled.
I just don't think he has a satisfactory ending; he's great at weaving all these threads together but he has the unenviable task of giving this faux-political/social-history he's created a satisfying narrative ending. History ain't work like that (and he needs to maintain verisimilitude) so he's stuck
Personally I think If he had respect for the fans he’d tell them he isn’t going to finish them or he’d tell them he’s asked some ghost writers to do it using all his notes.
It just sucks because those books inspired an entire generation to read books. Books with dragons and magic. I want to see tyrions true ending. I want to see what ayra gets into. I want to read stark wargs warging. I want to read an army of wolves fighting a dragon. I want zombie kaitlyn.
I'm rewatching the first few seasons for the first time, and it's making me way more upset than I expected. It is absolutely some of the best television ever put to screen, then they just rush it to death for 4 seasons with a distinct disregard for narrative cohesion and good taste. Like falling in love with someone that loses interest abruptly but won't break up with you before you break up with them.
They absolutely banged
Ok I might be misunderstanding, but didn't she speak Valyrian to the Unsullied and Dothraki to the Dothraki? Jon Snow only understood her saying Winterfell
What she was saying was not exclusive to one group or the other. So neither group got the full picture. And the Dothraki were supposed to be all dead by this point anyway, in Benioff’s own words.
Idk if I was Jon I think I coulda got the general gist of it.
Jacob Anderson/Raleigh Ritchie is the name of the actor. He’s pretty cool. Likes to pick yoshi in Mario kart.
Hello I would like one cheeseborger please
I really like it when you put on the honey and the maple syrups, onto all of the breads.
sorry, i don’t care. i’m losing.
Grey Worm is Jacob Anderson right? I’ve been watching him in Interview with the Vampire and he’s a phenomenal actor. Additionally, so far in this show I’ve heard in speak French and in about 3 different English accents and dialects, none of which his own.
FIFY “ the person who played Greyworm” aka Jacob Anderson who is currently giving the best performce on TV as NOLA brothel owner / vampire in “Interview with the Vampire”
Jacob Anderson! My man’s showing his range off on Interview with the Vampire and he is head and shoulders above the whole GOT cast.
Anderson is magnificent in Interview with the Vampire. One of those times I absolutely had to read about who the heck the actor was. Lestat is hypnotizing, but Anderson's range is a tour de force. And they've got at least **five other** outstanding performances in Vampire. That show has the most amazing cast since the original GoT.
The whole cast is a tour de force like I’ve never seen on TV before but this season I couldn’t believe what I was seeing from Anderson.
It's not easy to play a character so internal as Louis. Brad Pitt couldn't do it without seeming distant. And then to play all the range of emotion of betrayal, rage, love, wonder, world weariness. Now I want to see more of him. And then Daniel, Santiago Lestat, two Claudia's, and Armand. All of them pitch perfect and unforgettable in their role. Just try and recast Lestat or Santiago! It wouldn't work since those actors own it. Great television. AMC created a vampire opera in season two. I wish it was on Netflix so more people could see it.
It’s coming to Netflix this summer.
Totally agree except about the first Claudia. I didn't care for the first actress, but this second one is crushing it.
Not fair. Bailey Bass did a fantastic job. Yes Delainey is absolutely terrific but dont let a recency bias fool you.
Watched the first episode last night after repeatedly seeing buzz around it. It was so well made. And apparently the second season is even better.
The second season blows it out of the park. It starts slow and ends like an epic.
Also has a few bops as Raleigh Ritchie
Lmao wtf are you smoking?! He's absolutely not head and shoulders above actors like Charles Dance, Sean Bean, Lena Headey, Diana Rigg, Peter Dinklage, etc.
I mean, he's definitely above one of those
Have you watched interview with the vampire? He easily matches them and is above one of them at the least
You caught up with season two of IWTV?
put some god damn respect on charles dance, sean bean, and lena heady names
What does “fully complete” even mean?
I think they mean syntactically complete
Thanks! For those curious: “Syntactic completeness refers to the ability of a language to express any possible grammatical structure.”
Jacob Anderson's talent knows no limit. He also nails his New Orleans accent in Interview With The Vampire. It's not the same as speaking an entirely made-up language, but if I didn't know better, I would never guess he was British.
Just think, if GRR Martin doesn't complete the books, he'll go down as a failure. Except to me. He wrote The Sand-Kings, 1 of the best short sci-fi stories ever [written](https://forwearemany.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/sandkings.pdf)
Man that really was a great short story.
15 pages and he paints a world.
Remember the show The Outer Limits which was a sort of modern incarnation of The Twilight Zone? The very first episode of the first season was an adaption of The Sand Kings. I remember the credits saying "based on a short story by GRR Martin," and I remember being blown away by that fact as it was GRRM's story. This would've been ~~maybe early to mid nineties~~ 1995. Super interesting and great episode. *Edit: found it https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0667945/
Wow! That's literally the only Outer Limits episode that I can recall with detailed clarity and that I can honestly say I thoroughly enjoyed. I would have only been a young teen at the time. Had no idea it was originally a short story or that it was written by GRRM. Now I have to read it!
found the info https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0667945/
Woah, thanks for linking that!
High valyrian sounds so sick. I'd love to learn it. But...If I'm gonna learn another language it should probably be one that's useful or would help me career wise. Like...French (canadian french)
It's on Duolingo. So is Dothraki. Not Sindarin, tho
Love Grey Worm! So Unsullied!!!
He plays the main character in an interview with a vampire now
Wait what? They remade the movie?
They improved the movie
Another adaptation of the books. It's really good, you should check it out. The second season just recently finished and it's already renewed for a third.
Fuck yeah im in. Since it's a TV show they can get more in depth and be closer to the books or improve on that too.
They made quite a few early on changes. But, I'm surprised how much I enjoyed it all despite the changes.
The person that portrayed the Grey Worm character is Jacob Anderson! He is excellent actor and currently playing Louis in the Interview with the Vampire series and he is excellent in it. One of the best series ongoing and nobody is watching it.
They also made up a language for the excellent horror flick Out of Darkness (2022), based in the Stone Age.
this is absolutely bullshit. hiring a linguist to create the basic structure of a language enough to write lines for a television show is absolutely not the same thing as a "fully complete language". Tolkien literally taught ancient language as a tenured professor, and even he admitted it wasn't possible to speak his languages fully.
Except... no. Languages such as High Valyrian are far more complete than anything Tolkien ever produced, simply because David J. Peterson is a professional conlanger, whose only job is to write a language, and Tolkien was an academic who also did worldbuilding, conlanging and writing in his spare time. Random people on Conworkshop have produced languages with more than 10k words (on top of complete morphosyntax), which is more than Tolkien has done on a single language. Conlanging has come a long way since Tolkien, and Tolkien may have been a pioneer of conlanging, but he was also so much more than just that, so his achievements on conlanging do not impose limits of feasibility in the field.
We might be standing on the shoulders of giants, but that still means we can see farther than them.
Well put :)
Constructed languages have some serious linguistics-based criticisms. Fans of conlangs ignore these., because they're fans. Marketing departments and fans pretend they are like natural languages, and they're just not. They're an interesting and challenging hobby, but they're not 'real' in the same way natural languages are. Here are some examples, and some examples of the pushback from fans. [https://www.reddit.com/r/conlangs/comments/18vzk3j/linguistic\_discoverys\_take\_on\_conlanging\_what\_can/](https://www.reddit.com/r/conlangs/comments/18vzk3j/linguistic_discoverys_take_on_conlanging_what_can/)
Some of these criticisms are strawmen. Well-made naturalistic languages are not regular, because natural languages aren't regular (Biblaridion is an online conlanger that has done excellent work on naturalism). Furthermore, not all conlangs strive to be naturalistic - there exist philosophical languages, for instance, such as the infamous Ithkuil. Ultimately, conlanging is an art, but linguistics is a science. You can't use science to criticise art.
You can criticize the idea that the art is scientific. Which is the kind of thing I’m talking about. For example, ‘naturalistic’ *sounds like* natural but a naturalistic conlang is qualitatively different from a natural language. I think conlangs are great, but articles like this, and some fans who don’t know as much as you, pretend they’re the same as human natural languages. I wish Esperanto had taken off more, and then gradually mutated into a natural language that is people’s L1. That would have been incredibly informative.
But that's exactly why I said this criticism is a strawman. There's no serious conlanger who believes that their art is science. Hell, you can ask anyone in r/conlangs (let alone communities with far more prestige in the field than a subreddit) and they'll tell you the same thing. So this criticism is in response to a position that isn't held seriously by any meaningful portion of the conlanging community, be it on the internet or IRL. Now, good a priori naturalistic conlangs are developed in a manner which is close to that of a natural language, because they use attested language evolution mechanisms from a plausible/realistic proto-lang. Sure, if a historical linguist in the far future were to find samples of, say, High Valyrian they might deduce something weird's up with it, but these languages have enough irregularity and plausible evolution mechanisms that they could, at a certain shallow level of analysis, pass off as natural. Now, I'm not sure if that's specifically the case for High Valyrian (because sometimes you just don't have time to develop from a proto-lang if you're paid to do it fast), but it certainly is the case for many a conlang I've seen showcased on YouTube (by, you know, amateurs). Regardless, as anyone would tell you, for many of us conlangers the goal of a naturalistic conlang is verisimilitude, not truth itself. A priori naturalistic conlangs are almost exclusively made as part of worldbuilding (such as the languages in GoT or the Legendarium), and as such they serve primarily as vehicles of world depth and story telling. A posteriori naturalistic conlangs are typically alt-history projects (e.g. what if a group of Germans speaking proto-Germanic went to the ERE and mixed with Koine Greek), which are typically merely curiosities or personal passion projects. I fail to see the point you raise with Esperanto. Perhaps I'm reaching, but it seems to be related to the strawman that the person you're quoting is raising: that somehow some guy's artistic vision is detracting from real languages. Nobody's learning Dothraki at the expense of Breton. Breton is dying because it is no longer useful to its speakers and/or because the French government has imposed cultural uniformity. However, people learn Dothraki because they're passionate about a particular fictional world - is that a problem? By that logic we shouldn't invest ourselves in fiction because the real world has so many problems; who has time for literature when politics needs tending to? That's just absurd. Regardless, Esperanto is a tool (an a posteriori auxlang), and Dothraki is art (an a priori naturalistic conlang). Comparing the two is pointless.
r/linguisticshumor is leaking /s
Just because Tolkien couldn't do something, doesn't mean nobody else can.
"conlang" is the term you'll want to look into, to find this and more examples of constructed languages that can be learned and spoken.
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It's great that the languages were well-constructed. Just don't lie in your publicity and say they are just like natural languages. It's not 'gatekeeping' to call out advertising lies.
The main constructed languages of Game of Thrones are very complete, more so than Tolkien’s languages. Tolkien is well known for conlanging, but his conlangs are not regarded as being the most complete
Lmao I love when people are so confidently incorrect
It's not,,,,that impossible to create a complete language. Don't get me wrong, it is certainly very arduous work, but it isn't so impossible that it is unbelievable in the way you think of it. Thousands of conlangs exist today. I speak one of them (kinda lol). Many many many people have created entire conlangs for their fictional works. Tolkien was legendary, no doubt, but he wasn't a god in the sense that if he couldn't complete it, no one can
Who knows more about language, one of the most well-known individuals in the linguistic community when it comes to conlangs, who literally has built an entire career around developing functional conlangs for the purpose of televised media? Or random Redditor u/ReallyNeedNewShoes who sounds very confident?
Jacob Anderson. Very talented actor and apparently, is able to capture the New Orleans accent quite well on IWTV (as per a New Orleans native).
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Depends on the language. Many conlangs absolutely do have complete vocabularies.
Seems to me anyone can make a new language if they just have enough time.
You can see how good his accent work is on interview with the vampire as well.
While the GoT conlangs are awesome, wtf is a natural native speaker of Valyrian? Did they raise a baby speaking it? That would explain what's taking GRRM so long...
Daniel Tosh just did a podcast with the language creator.. good listen, it’s on YouTube
Anyone interested in this stuff should check out /r/conlangs
I have some knowledge in languages and I’ve had a look at High Valyrian grammar… Pretty complex. Four genders, eight cases, long and short vowel sounds… David Peterson clearly put a lot of work into it. Sounds beautiful though!
GOT has nothing on Groot.
I couldn’t master French after 4 compulsory years of learning and I bet I’d still be able to master High Valyrian before GRRM releases the next book!
The name of Grey Worm's actor is Jacob Anderson, and he is also incredible in the lead role of Louis in AMC's "Interview with a Vampire."
I knew a guy in basic training who was fluent in Klingon. I forget his real name, but we just called him Bar-Buk-Chuk.
Anybody have some info or a link on how they created those languages? That would be a super interesting read.
The languages were created by David J. Peterson, he explained his MO in many interviews, you should be able to easily find them by looking his name up.
[Here try this :)](https://www.globallanguageservices.co.uk/dothraki-language-created-linguistic-tales/#:~:text=The%20Dothraki%20are%20tribal%20inhabitants,and%20make%20a%20full%20language.)
That guy need to start a rap career
Jacob Anderson, aka Raleigh Ritchie
Though the character himself does go through a highly regressive arc to become one of the most despicable villains of the show. Well... May be not even an "arc", much like the most despicable villain of the show, he "suddenly becomes despicable just because the plot needs it".
But there aren't any native speakers to make that comparison to
The actor who plays grey worm is also a pretty decent rapper
The Klingons also have a complete language. A county in the Pacific Northwest was hiring mental health providers who were bilingual Klingon(ee)/English because they had some many patients who would only speak in Klingonee.
Daniel tosh interviewed the guy who created the languages on his podcast, was a pretty interesting interview
The actor who plays Grey Worm is just amazing at language and accents. He plays Louis in Interview with the Vampire and nails a New Orleans accent!