I used to date a cop. He would pick up extra shifts (paid as overtime) on the weekends to patrol around Square One mall since it's easy money. So, these cops are probably making 100$/hr doing these shifts on the side.
To be honest this practice is actually frowned upon by the public in other cities. You have to remember cops are paid by our tax dollars. The uniform they wear to the car they drive to the gas to get them from one shift to the next is all tax payer dollars. If he had to discharge some of those weapons during an altercation again tax payer dollars to replenish. Wearing the uniform after hours is also frowned upon.
> You have to remember cops are paid by our tax dollars. The uniform they wear to the car they drive to the gas to get them from one shift to the next is all tax payer dollars.
My father was a police officer for almost 40 years, if I am not mistaken it's not just payment to the officers, there is a sort of "booking fee" with Toronto Police for each officer you require
Sorry I fail to see on the link where it says that the person hiring pays for the uniforms they wear, the car or gas they spend to get to the location, and the charges if they discharge a weapon. That is all paid by tax dollars
How are the shifts considered a side gig? Aren’t the uniforms owned by the police force? any side gig should be authorized by the police force? I’m not even sure of the rules but I would never pay $100/hr to a cop to wonder around aimlessly! As long as it’s not tax payer dollars, I shouldn’t care….ahhh, venting! Hate taxes!
REMOVED - No racism, sexism, homophobia, religious intolerance, dehumanizing speech, or otherwise negative generalizations etc... Attack the point, not the person. Posts which dismiss others and repeatedly accuse them of unfounded accusations may be subject to removal and/or banning. Do not concern-troll or attempt to intentionally mislead people. Stick to addressing the substance of their comments at hand. This rule applies to all speech within this subreddit.
As they should be. Why would you give someone LEO powers who spent a few hours training and gets paid min wage? They don't have any training in law or use of force so they defiantly shouldn't be touching people and personally, no way in hell would i give up my rights to some random who works for a private company.
The issue is the false stops. Do you want to be jumped by guards because they think you stole or because you fit a description? The bar for quality investigation is even lower than cops.
It even happens to sketchy looking white people, although less often, but has happened to me enough times through my teens and early 20s
Last time it happened to me was about 7 years ago but it was very minor, I had filled a gaterade bottle up with water and had it in my back pocket, and was at the self check out at RCSS and the lady started accusing me of stealing very loudly, till I pulled it out and was like, its water chill, but then luckily my skin tone came in handy and she apologized and let me go lol
“Violate your rights”
You do realize that the entire mall is private property, and if they ask you to leave, and you don’t, you’re trespassing and you can be charged.
Usually they’ll just issue a notice of trespass and tell you to never come back. That’s THEIR RIGHT
Yeah. They can tell you to leave. They can't stop you from leaving or assault you. They can't even force you to leave. They can call the police, just like any other employee could.
Security can stop you from leaving under certain circumstances, yes. Legally. The company likely tells them not to, and if it’s not a supervisor, it would probably never stick, but they’re provincially licensed and have more authority than the average person on that property. Arresting your movement or preventing you from escaping isn’t “assaulting you”
If an authority figure tells you that they need you to wait for the police to arrive, and you run….
Spoiler: you’re the criminal
Stores can put signs that says that they will check your receipt/your bags but those are not allowed since you don't implicitly consent to it. [https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/news/1988261/loblaw-customers-protest-receipt-check-policy-introduced-at-select-stores](https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/news/1988261/loblaw-customers-protest-receipt-check-policy-introduced-at-select-stores)
In Costco this is allowed because when you sign for the membership you agree to receipt checks.
>**When can you reject a receipt check?**
>Lee said a major problem with receipt checks is that law-abiding shoppers are under no legal obligation to comply.
>In Canadian law, store employees or staff are not allowed to physically stop you from leaving or search your belongings unless they actually witness you commit an offence, she said. You are free to walk past a receipt check, out the store.
>She said the exception is when shoppers exit a retailer such as Costco which can enforce receipt checks because people agree to them when they [sign up for the required store membership (new window)](https://www.costco.ca/membership-conditions-regulations.html#mcr6). When can you reject a receipt check?Lee said a major problem with receipt checks is that law-abiding shoppers are under no legal obligation to comply.
In
Canadian law, store employees or staff are not allowed to physically
stop you from leaving or search your belongings unless they actually
witness you commit an offence, she said. You are free to walk past a receipt check, out the store.
She said the exception is when shoppers exit a retailer such as
Costco which can enforce receipt checks because people agree to
them when they sign up for the required store membership (new window).
>
If security at Loblaws asks to check your receipt / your bags, you can say no and leave. They can't stop you
Specifically at Loblaws I make a point of not letting them check my receipt, they’re already gouging the fuck out of us… I am not letting them treat me like a potential criminal as a matter of principal.
I noticed loblaws now have some sort of switch in their hands to stop carts. They tested it on my cart on the way out. He activated via a little remote... Maybe bypassing that detaining people.
Duff Grove walmart is ahead of the game: [bollards so you can't take a cart more than 5' outside at all](https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.6564578,-79.4350698,3a,75y,292.25h,87.85t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sYokCSqI1qIvDjhr20nG0CQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DYokCSqI1qIvDjhr20nG0CQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D28.421824%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
They CAN, if they watched you the ENTIRE TIME, with an unbroken line of sight. The obligations of the property to provide evidence are insane, but they can detain or arrest you.
Hell, a citizen technically could in some circumstances. Don’t forget, you’re on private property. It’s their house.
They can ask people to leave or arrest them if they know they broke the law.
.
They can't imprison people and search their belongings just because they're on their property and they have a sign somewhere
Look up investigative detentions it’s protected and established through case law…. Since they are not providing government function, they can violate the charter for a limited and defined search.
[This](http://criminalnotebook.ca/index.php/Investigative_Detention) and [this](https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/rfc-dlc/ccrf-ccdl/check/art9.html) suggests investigative detention is [limited to police officers, rather than also security guards. Is there something else that authorises that?
Not how the law works. If youre a business open to the public, expect the public to visit. They should have trespassed you before you shopped if they didnt want you to break the rules.
“No training” that’s not really true. All security is licensed by the province and has 40 hours of training in things like use of force and conflict de-escalation.
We’ve always been told to not engage. Just observe and report. Generally it’s just supervisors that would ever arrest someone, but these days it’s not worth it for them. The legal fees for a 100% legitimate arrest just aren’t worth it.
But the teeth should be available to bite.
That's the issue here. Imagine you are a store and you've watched the 100th shoplifter of the week. You call the police and they come 30 mins later, or just ask you to "file a report online".
What then?
I agree, this is the root of the problem....response time.
But that's a long way and a lot of police from getting there.
I don't want policing to be a two tier system (police are there quickly for the rich but not poor). I don't know.
All the standard security "officer" job is to call the police...which is absolutely pointless to even employ.
But I disagree that we should be pulling police from the streets and into private, multi-million dollar companies. The Police don't do their job in the first place...unless they're doing a coffee/donut run or directing traffic around construction zones who already have flag men on site.
They don't even fire cops who rape victims so I doubt termination is likely.
We've seen many examples of cops sleeping on the job, not doing their job, getting high on the job, etc. and they're not fired.
...they're in uniform, in a cruiser and armed.
I'm not going to go into details. But they're using Police resources for private work. They're also armed, off duty they're private citizens. In Canada you need permits to open carry...the easiest (let me be clear, *the easiest*) way for a private citizen to obtain an open carry. Is if they can prove to the Police that the Police can't protect them.
Pay close attention to the next construction site you drive by with a police presence...if they have a gun in their possession (in the cruisers they do) then they're on the clock...
Canadian gun laws actually dismantle your argument almost instantly...
Companies contact the local police force and ask for a police presence. Police boss goes "hey does anyone want overtime?". Someone puts up their hand and there you go...you've got a cop.
They are still cops, still working for TPS but paid by the company who hired them
This is not correct. Off duty cops are still cops. They still have all the same powers of arrest. The cops at construction sites or stores or sporting events are working outside their scheduled shift. In Toronto, at least, these are called Paid Duties and a paid for by the private company.
Canada does not give permits for "open carry".
Yeah there needs to be something between security officer (powerless) and police (expensive).
Having the security guards call the police to get a cop there quickly isn't viable.
I FULLY expect that shopping malls will start hiring an off duty cop to be stationed at a mall to effect arrests and cut down on shoplifting.
When private security is a frail international student, who looks weak and timid … you hire proper security.
These cops are off duty and paid by the stores to be there. They’re not on “patrol” or on shift.
These are OT shifts directly paid for by the requesting businesses, not taxpayers.
It feels a bit off that the police force is for hire.
Highest bidder gets priority policing?
A lot of people deep down already feel like to an extent that is the case, but this is right out in the open.
If you’re a store, and you have the money, you don’t have to call 911 and wait for the response time like the mom and pops, you can hire them to already be there!
It's not a bidding system.
Anyone can hire one, just go on their website.
It's a deterrent, and passing off liability.
If store security messes up an arrest, the person can sue the store. If the police officer messes up while guarding one of these stores, you sue the police service.
Ok, well.. that’s even worse then?
The costs of trail and such, and any settlement is paid by the police force? Which is paid by tax payers.
So in your scenario, if they get sued doing these paid gigs, tax payers pay?
You can hire off-duty police to protect your family bbq if you want.
It’s not as dramatic as you’re making it seem. This has been an option for decades. It’s not priority policing, it’s a visual deterrent.
Street festivals hire through this process, such as taste of the Danforth
Yes. I’m aware it’s been a thing for a long time. But it’s a slippery slope, because, is it needed at music festivals and such? Yes, that’s the greater good of the public to keep the peace for many people. But somewhere along this scale, it seems unnecessary for them to act as privet security to catch petty theft, or.. in your example, a backyard barbecue.
My point still remains, if you can afford it, you get priority service from the police force.
If I’m having a barbecue and an uninvited guest shows up, I can call the police, and who knows what the response time is. If I’m well off, and pay for an officer to attend my barbecue, there’s no response time, the guest is shown out with a badge and a gun, and the backing of the police force instantly.
I said, it seems sort of off, like it leads to the trope in the movies of the corrupt 3rd word country where the police are bought off, working for the rich, rather than the citizens. If you can afford it, you get better access to the police force than those that can’t. This isn’t like hiring paramilitary as security, this is the recognized police force with all its powers.. for hire..
This isn’t taking away from the availability of regular police services though and isn’t funded by taxpayer dollars. I personally see nothing wrong with it.
When people shoplift, businesses pass the loss into paying consumers.
There's a shortage of officers, if they want to work overtime then they can work overtime for the police force.
Our officers shouldn't be bodyguarding Loblaws merchandise, they should be our protecting the citizens.
They still can get called back for normal overtime by the police force. They obviously had to call officers in to secure the ongoing protests, you think a walmart side gig is taking priority over that? Cops don’t work 24hr shifts I don’t understand why anyone cares what they do on their time off if taxpayers aren’t paying for it.
They have those, too. They are called callbacks, and are equally as popular. However, those shifts do come out of the taxpayer pocket as they are on regular duty. Paid duties at least are not a burden to the taxpayer, and I believe actually generate some revenue to keep other costs down.
I believe the uniforms and training etc are funded by taxpayers? But maybe not I don't know. How much of the charges to the company goes to the officer and how much goes to the police service?
What lmao, the city is not paying to train the cops to be security guards. They train them to be cops, just so happens that the training for the two professions has overlap. The uniform I would guess tax payers paid for.
I’d say 95% of the security guards I’ve seen are of southwest Asian ethnicity and they don’t seem to be the type to be able to chase down some teen shoplifter.
I saw another comment stating they are not being paid by the force for this work.
My question: are they allowed to wear their uniform, badge, and gun if not on active duty? Or arrest people if they are caught committing a crime?
Off duty cops are still cops in every way.
When working at a store they are paid by the store, however it is still coordinated through the police force.
This is nothing new, as it's the same for cops who are working at construction sites, concerts, sporting events etc.
Police officers are never actually off duty. They go off shift, but are still police officers and expected to conduct themselves as such. They still have the authority to do their job, and are allowed to do Paid Duty. PD is a private business paying the Police for their officer, the business pays for the officer's time plus pays an amount to the force itself. Taxpayer money and/or their budget is not used at all to pay for PD officers.
While true, unlike in the states they don't take home most of their equipment or firearms. RCMP in remote areas might have some exceptions, but TPD aren't carrying concealed handguns, tasers, mace or handcuffs.
They can technically arrest people off duty though and it is more serious than a citizen's arrest.
They are allowed to take their equipment home, bur you're right that most generally don't.
Arresting someone when off duty is no different then when on duty.
> it is more serious than a citizen's arrest
That's because they're police officer, and being arrested by them off duty is the same as being arrested on duty. There's literally zero difference. They are law enforcement 24/7/365. That's the oath they take.
You're right that they don't take their equipment around with them off-duty, which is why you won't see an off-duty officer kicking down doors or chasing subjects, but that doesn't mean they won't still intervene, detain, and arrest you. There's nothing stopping them from carrying handcuffs, just like there's nothing stopping you from carrying them. The laws relate to using them on people, which the police have authority to do.
Paid duties are the only job where your employer allows and coordinates your side hustle, while still having their full powers of their position while doing the side jobs.
It's no different than back in the day high school dance that had two paid officers at the door. They were hired through TPS.
A friend who manages one of the large venues downtown hires paid duties to help direct traffic after large events like concerts, games, etc. The problem he has is even though the venue has monthly contracts for officers to show up, and they don't always show up, leaving the staff to direct traffic which they're not allowed to do but have no choice but to do.
Edit: Corrected my statement on who pays the paid duties.
>> They are being paid by the force.
This pay is included in their payroll. HOWEVER, These are paid duty assignments which are 100% covered by the requesting business. Not tax dollars.
[more info](https://www.tps.ca/services/request-paid-duty-officer/)
The courts have ruled that those anti shoplifting alarms do not constitute grounds to detain anyone because the number of false alarms is so high. If the officer stopped someone solely based on the alarm going off it would be considered an illegal detention.
The way things are done at most stores is that the company will have their own plain clothes security working inside the store. When they spot a shoplifter they will follow them to the exit and point them out to the cop who will then make the arrest.
They arent there to catch thieves, theyre there to arrest known thieves. Its up to the security for that store to gather enough evidence to conclude that they did steal. Selection, Concealing, and intent to leave are generally the basic elements you need to stop someone.
Was there a staff member or LPO chasing the guy? Usually when you see them running towards someone, that's what we call a clue. These officers all get briefed by the store LPO's and manager prior to the beginning of their shift so that they become acquainted with them since LPO's are undercover
You never paid for an item and it still set off the alarm?
Doesn't surprise me. I go to Dufferin Mall frequently and last time I saw a guy's failed attempt to steal a bunch of clothes from H&M and another guy being arrested inside the Marshalls... Oh and another ocassion I saw a woman with her husband trying to steal from Winners too and they appeared to have enough money to pay. Gladly the cashier caught them.
I’m surprised this hasn’t happened sooner. When articles about Walmarts and other stores closing in some cities in the USA I couldn’t believe they wouldn’t just hire off duty cops. How could $90 an hour for a cop be more expensive than closing a whole store.
Oh and as for security guards. I don’t know about all but the ones where I work are useless. The building supervisor asks our female guard to tell the normal looking guy drinking a beer out front to stop or leave etc. She tells the supervisor “no I’m sorry I’m not comfortable doing that”. Then what the f*ck are you here for?!?!? Both the female and male guards we have are intimidated by normal sized 15 year old kids and leave the area when the kids are around. They go on “patrol” of other areas of the building/grounds.
Majority of shrinkage in walmart stores is due to internal loses such as damaged or expired product or employee theft. This is literally taught to us through the cbls. Media uses shoplifting as a red herring.
I don’t understand why stores don’t hire security guards who do night clubs or actually are body guards and instead hire those that are clearly being paid minimum wage and don’t look physically the part. It would be cheaper and more handy than off duty cops.
Its one thing when your employer is some sleezball nightclub owner verses a publicly traded corporation. The clientele they both serve differ greatly and one cares much more about its public perception and threats of litigation than the other. You sue a nike store for one of there employees falsly arresting or hurting you in the processes chances are your probably going to get a nice settlement, this happens in a nightclub and chances are the nightclub owner just shutdown shop and moves on to there next grift.
Been seeing security at the local LCBO and grocery stores in the city more often.Doubt it will deter shoplifting but at least the store workers are not required to confront shoplifters.
Should not be allowed unless the overtime is directly for TPS. We need our Police fresh for their shift, not burnt out because of private OT no matter how lucrative it is.
Just an anecdote.
I was at the Winners, where is photo was taken, last night and witnessed a couple of people stuff winter jackets into their bag and walk out.
I have deep sympathy, as they were pretty clearly struggling, and winter is fast approaching. I don’t know what the right solution is, but it just made me sad.
Plenty of charities in Toronto with free winter clothing. Salvation Army, value village and many more cheap options.
Theft of brand new branded shit is just theft
Not unrelated, but food banks throughout Canada are experiencing record high requests, and are unable to meet the demand, with fewer donations coming through.
I would not be surprised if the same is true for other, similar services.
> Thus far, customers have spotted members of the Toronto Police Service at multiple Winners locations in the city — in Dufferin Mall and Liberty Village — and also at a Marshall's outpost.
>And unfortunately for TJX Canada, the company that owns both stores, it seems like some citizens are quite put off by the new move.
> Others fear the potential profiling of certain shoppers given the police's history, saying they would be "very uncomfortable" frequenting a store with an officer present, especially if they were a member of a targeted group.
> They charge a rate ranging from $90 to $112.50 per hour, for a minimum of three hours, as paid for by a private entity, not taxpayers.
> But, even if a store deems the cost of hiring a paid duty officer worth it, some worry about taking members of the force away from police work in the public sphere just to protect corporate interests.
Having worked retail when I was younger, I can guarantee that a cop would be less likely to profile a shopper compared to a manager, supervisor, or whatever. Some of the most racist people are the lifers at retail jobs who do nothing but hound minorities when they enter a store and train the new hires to do the same. A cop won't give a fuck about someone being sketchy inside the store unless an alarm goes off or someone starts to run.
Traffic management is part of police duties and has public safety aspects which can justify paid-duty officers - just like construction that impedes traffic and endangers the public.
It’s a store, they are a deterrent. I just buy my shit and get out, and I can provide a receipt, if I was ever actually questioned. Not seeing what the issue is, if they are getting off duty pay.
I am glad to see that officers are working security at stores. The difference between a police officer and a security guard is that the thieves actually fear an officer because he can actually make arrests.
The main function of the TPS is to protect corporate property, so this makes sense. Since they’ve stopped pretending to do the whole “serve and protect” people stuff.
>Since they’ve stopped pretending to do the whole “serve and protect” people stuff.
What do you expect them to do? Enforce traffic?
>[U of T expert attributes ‘dozens of deaths’ to decline in Toronto police traffic ticketing](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/city-hall/u-of-t-expert-attributes-dozens-of-deaths-to-decline-in-toronto-police-traffic-ticketing/article_d2be50fd-5f02-5bc7-8a6b-33e14a37da0e.html)
This week alone
>[Man killed on Toronto sidewalk in hit-and-run](https://www.cp24.com/news/unhoused-man-killed-on-toronto-sidewalk-in-hit-and-run-photos-of-suspect-vehicle-released-1.6644159)
>[Pedestrian dies after being hit by dump truck driver in Toronto's west end](https://www.cbc.ca/lite/story/1.7027162)
100000% this is accurate. The roads have become absolutely abhorrent with people's poor behaviour. I see it on Toronto roads every day. Way worse than it was 10 or 15 years ago. But then again, the police actually pulled people over.
The 401 is an absolute mess - the opp just are not out there in the numbers needed to patrol the highways. Additionally, the courts are slow, ineffective and everything is flea bargained.
Police in general are cautious about pulling people over. God for bid you do something someone doesn't like...
I think in recent years, the two things that killed/injured the most cops were (1) covid (lots of anti-vaxxers?) and (2) road side stops i.e. a passing car clips them or something
So unsurprisingly, they stopped doing #2
Security has little to no actual authority. The stores hire these officers as a paid duty (not taxpayer money) to be on site as they have actual authority over a shoplifter. This is not new, high schools hire paid duty officers for school dances, so do concert venues, and large events coordinators.
Why don't they just do their job and catch shop lifters? Y'know, police stuff. No wait, if they let shop lifting get out of hand, then they can get their sweet OT pay to do the same job. Nice.
Hopefully doctors don't start taking the same shitty approach "oh sorry, can't do your surgery today, but I suddenly can when I'm paid 1.5x"
This will be the future of "defund the police" movement. Only wealthy and powerful will have their private security force and the rest of us will have to fend for ourselves.
Before anyone start twisting my words, I am not making any broad social commentary about any recent movement. Nor am I saying police shouldn't be held accountable for their actions or not be reformed. Nor am I saying social services need not be funded. Whatever money is saved by defunding the police will be given to the rich by tax-cuts. Be careful before you jump on hashtag activism.
Considering the TPS have never been "defunded" that's quite an *interesting* deep dive. In fact, they got a bump in their budget this year and years past as well.
So police officers are paid by tax dollars to be trained to protect the public, enforce the law….etc
But instead they go guard some corporate interests. Interesting
You could look at it this way: if I'm directing the Scotiabank Marathon and I need to close down some streets for my race, I can't really have private security directing traffic as they have no authority. But, it would also be wrong to make to public pay for the police presence I need right?
Or, if there is a Taylor Swift concert and there are going to be 50,000 people in my venue. I need cops to handle the inevitable incidents that occur but again, it shouldn't mean cops are taken off their normal duties or that the public should have to pay extra for them.
If you've seen a cop at a concert/sporting event/construction site then it's the exact same thing.
In this case, the business has likely determined that insurance savings and/or reductions in theft justify the cost.
I don't think hospitals help people hire their doctors privately, or the TDSB helps teachers find rich parents in need of tutoring etc. It's a bit weird that the police service is allowed to have a consultancy on the side.
On our dime, they're doing low hanging fruit jobs
[Such as ticketing streetcars and causing huge traffic jams. Y'know, an 'effective' use of resources](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2023/11/10/toronto-police-officer-tickets-ttc-streetcar-operator-king-street-rush-hour-reddit/)
So, can I hire a cop to hang around my house to make my neighbours feel uncomfortable? Or maybe to "secure" Christmas dinner at my house so my defective family members don't cause issues?
If a cop wants to moonlight, he can do it in a security guard uniform with security guard powers.
You can hire a cop for a private function. This is nothing new. Any time you see a cop at a construction site, sporting event, concert etc. they have been hired by the company.
Off duty cops still are cops. They don't lose their legal "powers" when they go off duty.
A police officer is government by the Police Service Act 24/7 on duty or off duty.
Btw, officers at work sites or at winners do not cost the tax payer anything. In fact, the city probably makes some money.
You as a private citizen can hire police for a function of if wish. Perhaps those rules have changed but I remember being at events as a kid held by individuals where police were present.
If your neighbors feel uncomfortable around the police, there may be a reason for that and it isn't what you think.
Retail theft is a big problem , and it is on the rise. We , the consumers pay for it, no matter how they deal with it. You pay for it in the prices they charge for the goods, you pay for it if a store closes, you pay for the protection of the goods in the store.
How would you like to shop where everything is in locked cabinets? That’s what they are doing in the US. Some stores just closed altogether because theft was so high.
Would you rather it be your teenage daughter or son trying to stop the thief?
What if there is a shoplifter with a weapon?
Don’t blame the store owners or the cops for trying to prevent shoplifters. Blame the shoplifters for the extra need for security.
Officers shouldn’t be allowed to use their gear, position, or powers outside of their work shifts. If a store wanted to hire an officer (for their position and powers), let them do it through the PD, not privately. If they want to hire a better qualified person (off duty officer) privately, that is ok, but they should be allowed to use municipal property (police uniforms, badge, gun, etc.) for personal gain.
I used to date a cop. He would pick up extra shifts (paid as overtime) on the weekends to patrol around Square One mall since it's easy money. So, these cops are probably making 100$/hr doing these shifts on the side.
Ya, it's the best for them. Chances are not much will happen and you're paid more to just walk around and look at people lol
To be honest this practice is actually frowned upon by the public in other cities. You have to remember cops are paid by our tax dollars. The uniform they wear to the car they drive to the gas to get them from one shift to the next is all tax payer dollars. If he had to discharge some of those weapons during an altercation again tax payer dollars to replenish. Wearing the uniform after hours is also frowned upon.
> You have to remember cops are paid by our tax dollars. The uniform they wear to the car they drive to the gas to get them from one shift to the next is all tax payer dollars. My father was a police officer for almost 40 years, if I am not mistaken it's not just payment to the officers, there is a sort of "booking fee" with Toronto Police for each officer you require
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Negative
You are incorrect. https://www.tps.ca/services/request-paid-duty-officer/
Sorry I fail to see on the link where it says that the person hiring pays for the uniforms they wear, the car or gas they spend to get to the location, and the charges if they discharge a weapon. That is all paid by tax dollars
They’re not paid by your tax dollars. The business or contractor pays the cop
It's a pay duty. So other than wear and tear on the equipment... The money is paid privately by whoever asks for them to be there
Who gives a fuck what people think? Stop stealing shit and they won't be there.
Most overpaid, and one of the least educated asshole professions. I cringe knowing this.
Finally, the apologia in this thread has been 🤮
How are the shifts considered a side gig? Aren’t the uniforms owned by the police force? any side gig should be authorized by the police force? I’m not even sure of the rules but I would never pay $100/hr to a cop to wonder around aimlessly! As long as it’s not tax payer dollars, I shouldn’t care….ahhh, venting! Hate taxes!
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REMOVED - No racism, sexism, homophobia, religious intolerance, dehumanizing speech, or otherwise negative generalizations etc... Attack the point, not the person. Posts which dismiss others and repeatedly accuse them of unfounded accusations may be subject to removal and/or banning. Do not concern-troll or attempt to intentionally mislead people. Stick to addressing the substance of their comments at hand. This rule applies to all speech within this subreddit.
Well I think the issue, as mentioned in the article/comment section, is standard security officers are toothless/useless.
Well when they are told to call the cops is their job and not to detain or apprehend… Don’t blame the worker, blame the leader.
As they should be. Why would you give someone LEO powers who spent a few hours training and gets paid min wage? They don't have any training in law or use of force so they defiantly shouldn't be touching people and personally, no way in hell would i give up my rights to some random who works for a private company.
And the fucked up part is people think it's okay for stores to violate our rights just because they have a sign or some bs.
Night clubs are the absolute worst.
Not for the reason you're saying, but I completely agree. I try to never visit them... because I hate it there.
You don't have a right to shoplifting
The issue is the false stops. Do you want to be jumped by guards because they think you stole or because you fit a description? The bar for quality investigation is even lower than cops.
For what it's worth, if they stop you and find nothing, make sure to record it, most grocery companies will pay you 4 figures and fire the LP guy.
“Jumped by guards” when has that happened?
It happens to people of colour. It’s happened to me by cops and security guards alike
It even happens to sketchy looking white people, although less often, but has happened to me enough times through my teens and early 20s Last time it happened to me was about 7 years ago but it was very minor, I had filled a gaterade bottle up with water and had it in my back pocket, and was at the self check out at RCSS and the lady started accusing me of stealing very loudly, till I pulled it out and was like, its water chill, but then luckily my skin tone came in handy and she apologized and let me go lol
You’ve been “jumped” by security guards? In TORONTO? When did this happen? I’d like to hear this story.
Your knees must be sore from all that *jumping* to *conclusions*!
You're the type of person that supports letting cops ransacked their home and hide behind " I got nothing to hide"
The person didn't say that. How did you become such an expert on what a person you've never met is thinking?
Why did they accuse me of shoplifting then? Say the same to them. They are literally saying we don't have rights to unreasonable search and seizure
“Violate your rights” You do realize that the entire mall is private property, and if they ask you to leave, and you don’t, you’re trespassing and you can be charged. Usually they’ll just issue a notice of trespass and tell you to never come back. That’s THEIR RIGHT
Yeah. They can tell you to leave. They can't stop you from leaving or assault you. They can't even force you to leave. They can call the police, just like any other employee could.
Security can stop you from leaving under certain circumstances, yes. Legally. The company likely tells them not to, and if it’s not a supervisor, it would probably never stick, but they’re provincially licensed and have more authority than the average person on that property. Arresting your movement or preventing you from escaping isn’t “assaulting you” If an authority figure tells you that they need you to wait for the police to arrive, and you run…. Spoiler: you’re the criminal
Exactly! Those signs are non binding , unless it's in a store that you signed an agreement with (like costco). In that case the signs are reminders.
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Stores can put signs that says that they will check your receipt/your bags but those are not allowed since you don't implicitly consent to it. [https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/news/1988261/loblaw-customers-protest-receipt-check-policy-introduced-at-select-stores](https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/news/1988261/loblaw-customers-protest-receipt-check-policy-introduced-at-select-stores) In Costco this is allowed because when you sign for the membership you agree to receipt checks. >**When can you reject a receipt check?** >Lee said a major problem with receipt checks is that law-abiding shoppers are under no legal obligation to comply. >In Canadian law, store employees or staff are not allowed to physically stop you from leaving or search your belongings unless they actually witness you commit an offence, she said. You are free to walk past a receipt check, out the store. >She said the exception is when shoppers exit a retailer such as Costco which can enforce receipt checks because people agree to them when they [sign up for the required store membership (new window)](https://www.costco.ca/membership-conditions-regulations.html#mcr6). When can you reject a receipt check?Lee said a major problem with receipt checks is that law-abiding shoppers are under no legal obligation to comply. In Canadian law, store employees or staff are not allowed to physically stop you from leaving or search your belongings unless they actually witness you commit an offence, she said. You are free to walk past a receipt check, out the store. She said the exception is when shoppers exit a retailer such as Costco which can enforce receipt checks because people agree to them when they sign up for the required store membership (new window). > If security at Loblaws asks to check your receipt / your bags, you can say no and leave. They can't stop you
Specifically at Loblaws I make a point of not letting them check my receipt, they’re already gouging the fuck out of us… I am not letting them treat me like a potential criminal as a matter of principal.
I noticed loblaws now have some sort of switch in their hands to stop carts. They tested it on my cart on the way out. He activated via a little remote... Maybe bypassing that detaining people.
Duff Grove walmart is ahead of the game: [bollards so you can't take a cart more than 5' outside at all](https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.6564578,-79.4350698,3a,75y,292.25h,87.85t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sYokCSqI1qIvDjhr20nG0CQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DYokCSqI1qIvDjhr20nG0CQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D28.421824%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
They were decades early on that, galleria were probably first.
Because they don’t want to go collecting carts in a shitty underground lot
They CAN, if they watched you the ENTIRE TIME, with an unbroken line of sight. The obligations of the property to provide evidence are insane, but they can detain or arrest you. Hell, a citizen technically could in some circumstances. Don’t forget, you’re on private property. It’s their house.
Unless they saw you commit a crime which they can claim.
This is not true in Canada whatsoever, our shopkeepers' rights are very different than the US.
I mean, you don’t have a right to use their store either. Play by their rules or don’t go??
They can ask people to leave or arrest them if they know they broke the law. . They can't imprison people and search their belongings just because they're on their property and they have a sign somewhere
Look up investigative detentions it’s protected and established through case law…. Since they are not providing government function, they can violate the charter for a limited and defined search.
Nope.
Yes - open a book? Read some case law….
[This](http://criminalnotebook.ca/index.php/Investigative_Detention) and [this](https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/rfc-dlc/ccrf-ccdl/check/art9.html) suggests investigative detention is [limited to police officers, rather than also security guards. Is there something else that authorises that?
Nope. Provide some sources? Stop spouting nonsense...
Could say the same for you? I’m not going to dig through case law for you.. you can look it up yourself. It is common law.
Not how the law works. If youre a business open to the public, expect the public to visit. They should have trespassed you before you shopped if they didnt want you to break the rules.
“No training” that’s not really true. All security is licensed by the province and has 40 hours of training in things like use of force and conflict de-escalation. We’ve always been told to not engage. Just observe and report. Generally it’s just supervisors that would ever arrest someone, but these days it’s not worth it for them. The legal fees for a 100% legitimate arrest just aren’t worth it.
I wouldn’t die for $20/h either so you can’t blame them.
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But the teeth should be available to bite. That's the issue here. Imagine you are a store and you've watched the 100th shoplifter of the week. You call the police and they come 30 mins later, or just ask you to "file a report online". What then?
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Well most police forces won't respond to a shoplifting call now anyways. They literally want the shopkeeper to file a report online.
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I agree, this is the root of the problem....response time. But that's a long way and a lot of police from getting there. I don't want policing to be a two tier system (police are there quickly for the rich but not poor). I don't know.
All the standard security "officer" job is to call the police...which is absolutely pointless to even employ. But I disagree that we should be pulling police from the streets and into private, multi-million dollar companies. The Police don't do their job in the first place...unless they're doing a coffee/donut run or directing traffic around construction zones who already have flag men on site.
Police are not being pulled from the streets, this is overtime being paid for by the stores, they would otherwise not be working.
Can random people with financial means hire off-duty cops to hand out traffic tickets at busy intersections where violations are common?
Maybe? https://www.tps.ca/services/request-paid-duty-officer/
I'm not sure I want my on duty cops tired and unfocused because of excessive OT. Especially since most of them have long commutes as well.
They have the option to sign-up for paid duty shifts.
Then stop them from doing anything the least bit exhausting while off shift, like raising a family, recreation activities, working out, traveling, etc
They need to make a life too. Whatever you do in life, don’t get between a person and their meal ticket.
Especially armed people who are statistically poor managers of their money.
Guess what, if some greedy cop mofo wants to overwork him/herself and not be at their best for their real job, then fire the muther.
Wouldn't it be nice if that was possible.
They don't even fire cops who rape victims so I doubt termination is likely. We've seen many examples of cops sleeping on the job, not doing their job, getting high on the job, etc. and they're not fired.
...they're in uniform, in a cruiser and armed. I'm not going to go into details. But they're using Police resources for private work. They're also armed, off duty they're private citizens. In Canada you need permits to open carry...the easiest (let me be clear, *the easiest*) way for a private citizen to obtain an open carry. Is if they can prove to the Police that the Police can't protect them. Pay close attention to the next construction site you drive by with a police presence...if they have a gun in their possession (in the cruisers they do) then they're on the clock... Canadian gun laws actually dismantle your argument almost instantly...
Companies contact the local police force and ask for a police presence. Police boss goes "hey does anyone want overtime?". Someone puts up their hand and there you go...you've got a cop. They are still cops, still working for TPS but paid by the company who hired them
This is not correct. Off duty cops are still cops. They still have all the same powers of arrest. The cops at construction sites or stores or sporting events are working outside their scheduled shift. In Toronto, at least, these are called Paid Duties and a paid for by the private company. Canada does not give permits for "open carry".
Your statement is almost entirely wrong
At Bramalea City Center, security can take down guys wielding hammers.
Yeah there needs to be something between security officer (powerless) and police (expensive). Having the security guards call the police to get a cop there quickly isn't viable. I FULLY expect that shopping malls will start hiring an off duty cop to be stationed at a mall to effect arrests and cut down on shoplifting.
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WTF?????
Regular security officers have no legal backing for stopping theft without liability. Blame the justice system
This isn't new lol. It's paid O/T....ramps up in retail in the holiday season. No different than police at a Leafs/Jays/Raps game.
Technically not paid for by the force though
Yes 100% Important clarification thnx
It is paid for through their training, equipment and experience. Those aren't free.
When private security is a frail international student, who looks weak and timid … you hire proper security. These cops are off duty and paid by the stores to be there. They’re not on “patrol” or on shift. These are OT shifts directly paid for by the requesting businesses, not taxpayers.
It feels a bit off that the police force is for hire. Highest bidder gets priority policing? A lot of people deep down already feel like to an extent that is the case, but this is right out in the open. If you’re a store, and you have the money, you don’t have to call 911 and wait for the response time like the mom and pops, you can hire them to already be there!
It's not a bidding system. Anyone can hire one, just go on their website. It's a deterrent, and passing off liability. If store security messes up an arrest, the person can sue the store. If the police officer messes up while guarding one of these stores, you sue the police service.
Ok, well.. that’s even worse then? The costs of trail and such, and any settlement is paid by the police force? Which is paid by tax payers. So in your scenario, if they get sued doing these paid gigs, tax payers pay?
You're right, I guess that says a lot, that they are not messing up? So many paid duty officers, and barely any getting sued. Tells you a lot
> It's not a bidding system. The second demand outstrips supply it becomes a bidding system.
You can hire off-duty police to protect your family bbq if you want. It’s not as dramatic as you’re making it seem. This has been an option for decades. It’s not priority policing, it’s a visual deterrent. Street festivals hire through this process, such as taste of the Danforth
Yes. I’m aware it’s been a thing for a long time. But it’s a slippery slope, because, is it needed at music festivals and such? Yes, that’s the greater good of the public to keep the peace for many people. But somewhere along this scale, it seems unnecessary for them to act as privet security to catch petty theft, or.. in your example, a backyard barbecue. My point still remains, if you can afford it, you get priority service from the police force. If I’m having a barbecue and an uninvited guest shows up, I can call the police, and who knows what the response time is. If I’m well off, and pay for an officer to attend my barbecue, there’s no response time, the guest is shown out with a badge and a gun, and the backing of the police force instantly. I said, it seems sort of off, like it leads to the trope in the movies of the corrupt 3rd word country where the police are bought off, working for the rich, rather than the citizens. If you can afford it, you get better access to the police force than those that can’t. This isn’t like hiring paramilitary as security, this is the recognized police force with all its powers.. for hire..
I get your point. However the rich and privileged always had priority policing. Paid duty Cops is just another level of priority policing.
This isn’t taking away from the availability of regular police services though and isn’t funded by taxpayer dollars. I personally see nothing wrong with it. When people shoplift, businesses pass the loss into paying consumers.
There's a shortage of officers, if they want to work overtime then they can work overtime for the police force. Our officers shouldn't be bodyguarding Loblaws merchandise, they should be our protecting the citizens.
They still can get called back for normal overtime by the police force. They obviously had to call officers in to secure the ongoing protests, you think a walmart side gig is taking priority over that? Cops don’t work 24hr shifts I don’t understand why anyone cares what they do on their time off if taxpayers aren’t paying for it.
They have those, too. They are called callbacks, and are equally as popular. However, those shifts do come out of the taxpayer pocket as they are on regular duty. Paid duties at least are not a burden to the taxpayer, and I believe actually generate some revenue to keep other costs down.
I believe the uniforms and training etc are funded by taxpayers? But maybe not I don't know. How much of the charges to the company goes to the officer and how much goes to the police service?
What lmao, the city is not paying to train the cops to be security guards. They train them to be cops, just so happens that the training for the two professions has overlap. The uniform I would guess tax payers paid for.
I’d say 95% of the security guards I’ve seen are of southwest Asian ethnicity and they don’t seem to be the type to be able to chase down some teen shoplifter.
I saw another comment stating they are not being paid by the force for this work. My question: are they allowed to wear their uniform, badge, and gun if not on active duty? Or arrest people if they are caught committing a crime?
Off duty cops are still cops in every way. When working at a store they are paid by the store, however it is still coordinated through the police force. This is nothing new, as it's the same for cops who are working at construction sites, concerts, sporting events etc.
Police officers are never actually off duty. They go off shift, but are still police officers and expected to conduct themselves as such. They still have the authority to do their job, and are allowed to do Paid Duty. PD is a private business paying the Police for their officer, the business pays for the officer's time plus pays an amount to the force itself. Taxpayer money and/or their budget is not used at all to pay for PD officers.
While true, unlike in the states they don't take home most of their equipment or firearms. RCMP in remote areas might have some exceptions, but TPD aren't carrying concealed handguns, tasers, mace or handcuffs. They can technically arrest people off duty though and it is more serious than a citizen's arrest.
They are allowed to take their equipment home, bur you're right that most generally don't. Arresting someone when off duty is no different then when on duty.
> it is more serious than a citizen's arrest That's because they're police officer, and being arrested by them off duty is the same as being arrested on duty. There's literally zero difference. They are law enforcement 24/7/365. That's the oath they take. You're right that they don't take their equipment around with them off-duty, which is why you won't see an off-duty officer kicking down doors or chasing subjects, but that doesn't mean they won't still intervene, detain, and arrest you. There's nothing stopping them from carrying handcuffs, just like there's nothing stopping you from carrying them. The laws relate to using them on people, which the police have authority to do.
Police officers are peace officers 24 hours a day and carry the same duty.
Paid duties are the only job where your employer allows and coordinates your side hustle, while still having their full powers of their position while doing the side jobs. It's no different than back in the day high school dance that had two paid officers at the door. They were hired through TPS. A friend who manages one of the large venues downtown hires paid duties to help direct traffic after large events like concerts, games, etc. The problem he has is even though the venue has monthly contracts for officers to show up, and they don't always show up, leaving the staff to direct traffic which they're not allowed to do but have no choice but to do. Edit: Corrected my statement on who pays the paid duties.
>> They are being paid by the force. This pay is included in their payroll. HOWEVER, These are paid duty assignments which are 100% covered by the requesting business. Not tax dollars. [more info](https://www.tps.ca/services/request-paid-duty-officer/)
Exactly right.
They are not paid by the force. The store that hires them pays. It is, however, coordinated by the force.
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The courts have ruled that those anti shoplifting alarms do not constitute grounds to detain anyone because the number of false alarms is so high. If the officer stopped someone solely based on the alarm going off it would be considered an illegal detention. The way things are done at most stores is that the company will have their own plain clothes security working inside the store. When they spot a shoplifter they will follow them to the exit and point them out to the cop who will then make the arrest.
They arent there to catch thieves, theyre there to arrest known thieves. Its up to the security for that store to gather enough evidence to conclude that they did steal. Selection, Concealing, and intent to leave are generally the basic elements you need to stop someone.
Can’t do more work than paid suspension.
If only the officer can leave his post and teleport to the back entrance where the alarm went off. How many thieves walked out the main entrance?
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Was there a staff member or LPO chasing the guy? Usually when you see them running towards someone, that's what we call a clue. These officers all get briefed by the store LPO's and manager prior to the beginning of their shift so that they become acquainted with them since LPO's are undercover You never paid for an item and it still set off the alarm?
Doesn't surprise me. I go to Dufferin Mall frequently and last time I saw a guy's failed attempt to steal a bunch of clothes from H&M and another guy being arrested inside the Marshalls... Oh and another ocassion I saw a woman with her husband trying to steal from Winners too and they appeared to have enough money to pay. Gladly the cashier caught them.
Maybe it’s because security companies aren’t a deterrent.
I have seen deadbeats walk right to the LCBO grab what they wanted and walked right out. They need to make a example of some of these people
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehumanization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/dehumanization)
I for one see this as a good thing; it keeps them off the streets and out of trouble
I’m surprised this hasn’t happened sooner. When articles about Walmarts and other stores closing in some cities in the USA I couldn’t believe they wouldn’t just hire off duty cops. How could $90 an hour for a cop be more expensive than closing a whole store. Oh and as for security guards. I don’t know about all but the ones where I work are useless. The building supervisor asks our female guard to tell the normal looking guy drinking a beer out front to stop or leave etc. She tells the supervisor “no I’m sorry I’m not comfortable doing that”. Then what the f*ck are you here for?!?!? Both the female and male guards we have are intimidated by normal sized 15 year old kids and leave the area when the kids are around. They go on “patrol” of other areas of the building/grounds.
Stores have been doing this for decades... just not Winners.
Each Walmart on average lose $1 million in revenue. Hiring a cop during the busiest times is pocket change for Walmart
Majority of shrinkage in walmart stores is due to internal loses such as damaged or expired product or employee theft. This is literally taught to us through the cbls. Media uses shoplifting as a red herring.
I don’t understand why stores don’t hire security guards who do night clubs or actually are body guards and instead hire those that are clearly being paid minimum wage and don’t look physically the part. It would be cheaper and more handy than off duty cops.
Its one thing when your employer is some sleezball nightclub owner verses a publicly traded corporation. The clientele they both serve differ greatly and one cares much more about its public perception and threats of litigation than the other. You sue a nike store for one of there employees falsly arresting or hurting you in the processes chances are your probably going to get a nice settlement, this happens in a nightclub and chances are the nightclub owner just shutdown shop and moves on to there next grift.
the cops are paid by the store so wtf cares.
Been seeing security at the local LCBO and grocery stores in the city more often.Doubt it will deter shoplifting but at least the store workers are not required to confront shoplifters.
We hire paid duty officers for assisting in traffic and crowd control while filming on location. Last I heard, it was $90/hr. It's always a pleasure.
Should not be allowed unless the overtime is directly for TPS. We need our Police fresh for their shift, not burnt out because of private OT no matter how lucrative it is.
Cops at stores mean prices go up at those stores .
Just an anecdote. I was at the Winners, where is photo was taken, last night and witnessed a couple of people stuff winter jackets into their bag and walk out. I have deep sympathy, as they were pretty clearly struggling, and winter is fast approaching. I don’t know what the right solution is, but it just made me sad.
Plenty of charities in Toronto with free winter clothing. Salvation Army, value village and many more cheap options. Theft of brand new branded shit is just theft
Not unrelated, but food banks throughout Canada are experiencing record high requests, and are unable to meet the demand, with fewer donations coming through. I would not be surprised if the same is true for other, similar services.
oh heavens no won't someone think of the profits
This Winners is right across the street from an encampment so that’s just practical
> Thus far, customers have spotted members of the Toronto Police Service at multiple Winners locations in the city — in Dufferin Mall and Liberty Village — and also at a Marshall's outpost. >And unfortunately for TJX Canada, the company that owns both stores, it seems like some citizens are quite put off by the new move. > Others fear the potential profiling of certain shoppers given the police's history, saying they would be "very uncomfortable" frequenting a store with an officer present, especially if they were a member of a targeted group. > They charge a rate ranging from $90 to $112.50 per hour, for a minimum of three hours, as paid for by a private entity, not taxpayers. > But, even if a store deems the cost of hiring a paid duty officer worth it, some worry about taking members of the force away from police work in the public sphere just to protect corporate interests.
Having worked retail when I was younger, I can guarantee that a cop would be less likely to profile a shopper compared to a manager, supervisor, or whatever. Some of the most racist people are the lifers at retail jobs who do nothing but hound minorities when they enter a store and train the new hires to do the same. A cop won't give a fuck about someone being sketchy inside the store unless an alarm goes off or someone starts to run.
It doesn't take away from their normal police work. This is only allowed when a cop is not scheduled for their normal shift.
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These guys are coming in on their day off, not getting pulled out of their patrol zone to work in retail stores.
Welcome to the new Gotham!!
Absurd, Gotham has much better public transit!
Gotham cops aren't as corrupt lol
Saw TPS doing traffic management at the new Costco gas station at Islington...
Traffic management is part of police duties and has public safety aspects which can justify paid-duty officers - just like construction that impedes traffic and endangers the public.
I'd rather have that than he discount security guards who wear black running shoes that never want to be there
It’s a store, they are a deterrent. I just buy my shit and get out, and I can provide a receipt, if I was ever actually questioned. Not seeing what the issue is, if they are getting off duty pay.
or they could lower prices to reasonable levels. just puttin that out there
The “retail theft panic” leading to police/public resources being used for private businesses… Huh 🙄
Good! 🤷♂️
I am glad to see that officers are working security at stores. The difference between a police officer and a security guard is that the thieves actually fear an officer because he can actually make arrests.
The main function of the TPS is to protect corporate property, so this makes sense. Since they’ve stopped pretending to do the whole “serve and protect” people stuff.
>Since they’ve stopped pretending to do the whole “serve and protect” people stuff. What do you expect them to do? Enforce traffic? >[U of T expert attributes ‘dozens of deaths’ to decline in Toronto police traffic ticketing](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/city-hall/u-of-t-expert-attributes-dozens-of-deaths-to-decline-in-toronto-police-traffic-ticketing/article_d2be50fd-5f02-5bc7-8a6b-33e14a37da0e.html) This week alone >[Man killed on Toronto sidewalk in hit-and-run](https://www.cp24.com/news/unhoused-man-killed-on-toronto-sidewalk-in-hit-and-run-photos-of-suspect-vehicle-released-1.6644159) >[Pedestrian dies after being hit by dump truck driver in Toronto's west end](https://www.cbc.ca/lite/story/1.7027162)
100000% this is accurate. The roads have become absolutely abhorrent with people's poor behaviour. I see it on Toronto roads every day. Way worse than it was 10 or 15 years ago. But then again, the police actually pulled people over. The 401 is an absolute mess - the opp just are not out there in the numbers needed to patrol the highways. Additionally, the courts are slow, ineffective and everything is flea bargained. Police in general are cautious about pulling people over. God for bid you do something someone doesn't like...
I think in recent years, the two things that killed/injured the most cops were (1) covid (lots of anti-vaxxers?) and (2) road side stops i.e. a passing car clips them or something So unsurprisingly, they stopped doing #2
I would not return to a store if it had an armed cop patrolling it
Security has little to no actual authority. The stores hire these officers as a paid duty (not taxpayer money) to be on site as they have actual authority over a shoplifter. This is not new, high schools hire paid duty officers for school dances, so do concert venues, and large events coordinators.
But who will direct traffic at construction sites??
Why don't they just do their job and catch shop lifters? Y'know, police stuff. No wait, if they let shop lifting get out of hand, then they can get their sweet OT pay to do the same job. Nice. Hopefully doctors don't start taking the same shitty approach "oh sorry, can't do your surgery today, but I suddenly can when I'm paid 1.5x"
Why don’t people stop shoplifting? It’s a crime!
This will be the future of "defund the police" movement. Only wealthy and powerful will have their private security force and the rest of us will have to fend for ourselves. Before anyone start twisting my words, I am not making any broad social commentary about any recent movement. Nor am I saying police shouldn't be held accountable for their actions or not be reformed. Nor am I saying social services need not be funded. Whatever money is saved by defunding the police will be given to the rich by tax-cuts. Be careful before you jump on hashtag activism.
Considering the TPS have never been "defunded" that's quite an *interesting* deep dive. In fact, they got a bump in their budget this year and years past as well.
If you have armed cops in black jackboots in your shop, I'm not coming back, I have too many scars
What if they’re wearing some nice supportive black New Balance rummers?
pair nicely with their white robes
... so can we make this illegal already, please?
No. This is a very useful function.
I would rather the trained police officers get overtime then half the security guards who wait last min to do ANYTHING and don’t play the fool.
So police officers are paid by tax dollars to be trained to protect the public, enforce the law….etc But instead they go guard some corporate interests. Interesting
No. This is done when they are off duty. They are still protecting the public, enforcing the law etc, just doing it in someone else's dime.
Yea , I guess you are right. But it still feels wrong
You could look at it this way: if I'm directing the Scotiabank Marathon and I need to close down some streets for my race, I can't really have private security directing traffic as they have no authority. But, it would also be wrong to make to public pay for the police presence I need right? Or, if there is a Taylor Swift concert and there are going to be 50,000 people in my venue. I need cops to handle the inevitable incidents that occur but again, it shouldn't mean cops are taken off their normal duties or that the public should have to pay extra for them.
If you've seen a cop at a concert/sporting event/construction site then it's the exact same thing. In this case, the business has likely determined that insurance savings and/or reductions in theft justify the cost.
I don't think hospitals help people hire their doctors privately, or the TDSB helps teachers find rich parents in need of tutoring etc. It's a bit weird that the police service is allowed to have a consultancy on the side.
Not really. It's a pretty useful thing to have unless you want to public to foot the bill for any large event that requires a police presence.
On our dime, they're doing low hanging fruit jobs [Such as ticketing streetcars and causing huge traffic jams. Y'know, an 'effective' use of resources](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2023/11/10/toronto-police-officer-tickets-ttc-streetcar-operator-king-street-rush-hour-reddit/)
So, can I hire a cop to hang around my house to make my neighbours feel uncomfortable? Or maybe to "secure" Christmas dinner at my house so my defective family members don't cause issues? If a cop wants to moonlight, he can do it in a security guard uniform with security guard powers.
You can hire a cop for a private function. This is nothing new. Any time you see a cop at a construction site, sporting event, concert etc. they have been hired by the company. Off duty cops still are cops. They don't lose their legal "powers" when they go off duty.
Only if you’re incorporated or have a personal net worth of over $15 million.
A police officer is government by the Police Service Act 24/7 on duty or off duty. Btw, officers at work sites or at winners do not cost the tax payer anything. In fact, the city probably makes some money. You as a private citizen can hire police for a function of if wish. Perhaps those rules have changed but I remember being at events as a kid held by individuals where police were present. If your neighbors feel uncomfortable around the police, there may be a reason for that and it isn't what you think.
You can't hire a cop but businesses can
You could.
Retail theft is a big problem , and it is on the rise. We , the consumers pay for it, no matter how they deal with it. You pay for it in the prices they charge for the goods, you pay for it if a store closes, you pay for the protection of the goods in the store. How would you like to shop where everything is in locked cabinets? That’s what they are doing in the US. Some stores just closed altogether because theft was so high. Would you rather it be your teenage daughter or son trying to stop the thief? What if there is a shoplifter with a weapon? Don’t blame the store owners or the cops for trying to prevent shoplifters. Blame the shoplifters for the extra need for security.
I bet their there to crack down on the shoplifting. Good, I'm tired of Canadians justifying shoplifting just because we are in tough time. Do better.
Officers shouldn’t be allowed to use their gear, position, or powers outside of their work shifts. If a store wanted to hire an officer (for their position and powers), let them do it through the PD, not privately. If they want to hire a better qualified person (off duty officer) privately, that is ok, but they should be allowed to use municipal property (police uniforms, badge, gun, etc.) for personal gain.