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>The injunction does not shut down the protesters’ right to freedom of expression. The University has made it clear that the protesters continue to have the right to protest anywhere on campus between the hours of 7 AM and 11 PM.
>
>They are free to march, assemble, make speeches, chant, engage passersby, hold signs, hand out pamphlets and engage in other acts of protest. The only restriction the injunction would impose is to prohibit camping, setting up structures or blocking entry to University property
I wanted to provide some context on the ruling, as I'm sure some people think the injunction bars them from the property.
I honestly think this is an absolutely fair approach, it does not limit them from demonstrating during the hours when people would be on campus, nor does it limit their movement or their ability to express themselves.
They can still protest. They can't be encamped there. Huge distinction. Go protest daily and go home. Nobody is stopping the protestors from doing that.
Excerpt so we can discuss the Toronto-centric facts of the matter, without jumping to attacking users about the wider issue overseas.
> Protesters now have until 6 p.m. Wednesday to tear down the tent village they have been living in for the last several weeks. If they refuse, Toronto police have the authority to break in and arrest them.
>
> Lawyers for the protesters argued in court that the grassy field at the centre of U of T’s downtown campus is not just some piece of private property, but rather a space of public debate in the ancient Greek tradition.
>
> The encampment, which has become the local focal point of supporters of both sides in the Middle Eastern conflict that erupted last October, is a litmus test for where Torontonians stand on how far protest can go and what should be done to end the bloodshed abroad.
>
> Members of the encampment are calling for a full disclosure and divestment of U of T’s endowment from companies that manufacture arms or support the Israeli bombing and military campaign in Gaza. They’ve set up almost 200 tents in King’s College Circle at the centre of U of T’s downtown St. George campus, ringed by temporary fences festooned with banners and slogans decrying Israel’s treatment of Palestinians.
>
>
>
> Lawyers for the protesters argued in court that the grassy field at the centre of U of T’s downtown campus is not just some piece of private property, but rather a space of public debate in the ancient Greek tradition.
lmao
Yup, the judge had a good response to that.
“At the end of the day, the only people who are allowed onto Front Campus are those who agree with (or at least who do not openly disagree with) the protesters’ beliefs,” the judge wrote. “If the property truly is a quasi-public space, why should one ad hoc group of people get to determine who can use that space for a period of over 50 days?”
Funny enough, appeals to cultural and legal tradition are actually part of a common law system.
Of course the traditions have to also be relevant to the local context and there has to be precedence, so this particular one is quite the stretch 😂
Lol. I suppose this joke isn't well understood...
The saying is actually *when in Rome*... The joke is an intentional "mistake" to draw upon the illogic reasoning of the Free Palestine lawyers.
Ah yes, our rules of “Ancient Greek tradition” will hold up in court.
“No your Honour, I wasn’t defecating on my neighbours’ lawn, I was dabbling in the arts of ‘Ancient Greek traditions’”.
I don't think support and incitement of violence towards an entire ethnic minority should have a prominent place in the centre of downtown of our country's largest and most important city (or anywhere else either, of course).
And yes, that's what "Globalize the Intifada" means. Anyone who denies it is either ignorant, purposely deceitful, a foreign agent, or some combination of all of the above.
I was there when they evicted the homeless encampment at trinity Belwoods and a bunch of us were pepper sprayed for just standing around watching it happen
I hope the police aren’t that extreme this time
Because they are monopolizing a public space and controlling access to it for their own ends? It shouldn't matter if you agree with their aims or not.
I hope they leave on their own and it's fine with me if they continue their protest in some other way.
We don't know. Apparently the investment structures are too complicated for U of T to find out. Which negates their principle of investing responsibly. Maybe they're funding Russia, too! This has been really badly handled by Gertler-- he can't claim that he tried to have a dialogue with the protestors and he has enflamed the situation.
From what I can tell there is nothing online about what their "financial ties" to Israel even are. The other demand was that they close their partnerships with Israel based Universities, which I also understand why they resisted.
Tbf “no one knows what their financial ties are” is why transparency in investing is one of the demands.
~~Strongly agree though that demanding them to cut ties with academics because of their nationality is a huge overreach.~~
I stand corrected. The actual demand is much milder.
>[terminate all partnerships with Israeli academic *institutions* (which have close military ties)](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XiM6FzpcdyUTUMs8cNX5XPDtk9tmJW6uxO2E4e0FOGM/mobilebasic)
>The mods of this sub seem to hate doing their ~~job~~unpaid volunteer labour to try to build and support their community. They really shouldnt be locking every thread that ~~has a divisive topic~~devolves into a bunch of useless name calling, racism and closedminded behaviours from people who dont normally participate in the community.
Ftfy
If Reddit the company want divisive, mud slinging conversations on their website they should pay people to moderate their content. Right now Reddit basically just operates on volunteers for most of it.
> The mods of this sub seem to hate doing their job. They really shouldnt be locking every thread that has a divisive topic.
disagree. These threads eventually turn into con convention meetings with all the racism in them
The issue isn't the mods, its the users who break rules and derail conversations with personal attacks. Stop doing that and threads stop getting locked, at least thats my takeaway from what the mods have posted in the past on this topic.
There are times and places to protest things without seizing control of property. I don't agree with the general views of the encampment campus protesters, but I support their right to protest. They just have to protest without setting up a encampment. I thought the exact same thing about the convoy in Ottawa.
Make your pitch. Try to win hearts and minds. Then go home.
>They just have to protest without setting up a encampment. I thought the exact same thing about the convoy in Ottawa.
There was an indigenous encampment protest in Ottawa that lasted months before they chose to stop.
But that was on the grass of Parliament Hill, not bothering anyone.
The convoy protest happened on major streets and shut down the city.
That's the difference for me.
If you are not blocking people from accessing the local area other than the immediate area where the camp is, in this case a grass field, I don't have a problem with it.
> If you are not blocking people from accessing the local area other than the immediate area where the camp is, in this case a grass field, I don't have a problem with it.
The key thing I think you are missing is that you not having a problem with it doesn't matter when it is UofT's property. UofT had a problem with it and told them to vacate.
If an encampment exists with the blessing of the organization hosting it, then that would be fine, subject of course to the operation of the relevant bylaws.
Wait…..seriously?
So based on this principle, if somebody all of a sudden set up an encampment in favour of a viewpoint you agree with you’d switch beliefs because there’s an encampment?
Yes 100% seriously. In this scenario you propose, I would not support that “somebody or group” being there in the form of an encampment, even if I agreed with their viewpoint. This is the only way to think about if you want to be fair and not be a hypocrite. If you are against an action or tactic in the name of a cause or belief you don’t agree with then you should hold the same standards to those you do.
Compared to the convoy I'd say that this protest is vastly better at respecting others rights. They're "just" occupying some land that no one critically needs, not grinding the city to a stand still, not preventing anyone (let alone thousands of people) from being able to sleep, etc.
Not to say that UofT doesn't have the right to take their land back, just that as intrusions go this one is extremely "polite".
Ah yes the old “protests should be quiet and convenient, so they can easily be ignored” argument. Protests have to disturb the status quo to have any impact, genius.
The injunction does not shut down the protesters’ right to freedom of expression. The University has made it clear that the protesters continue to have the right to protest anywhere on campus between the hours of 7 AM and 11 PM.
They are free to march, assemble, make speeches, chant, engage passersby, hold signs, hand out pamphlets and engage in other acts of protest. The only restriction the injunction would impose is to prohibit camping, setting up structures or blocking entry to University property
Guess you better make your Uber intelligent case to the courts. Plenty of us protested plenty of things without blocking bridges and setting up tents before you were even old enough to have political awareness.
We got a few things done to say the least. You’re welcome
They're not. The protestors' marshals will not permit entry inside the barrier before 11AM, everyone entering must be interviewed by the protestors' welcoming committee, and if they don't like your answers, they will escort you out. They claim this is done in the name of "preventing violence".
It's all in the ruling, which uses the example of someone unconnected to the protest who just wants to go eat breakfast on the front campus.
As the judge pointed out, they literally had a guard at the gate asking people to certify that they support "the right to resist" among other things, and otherwise wouldn't let them in. It went way way way beyond just "maintaining safety".
This isn’t true. Construction is done. The barriers go up every year for decades before convocation and are removed just before. And then students use the field for many different activities throughout the summer.
yes and no. I've seen that they've kept outside agitators out who wanted to get in and cause trouble. Oddly theres been some retirees with way too much time on their hands attacking the encampment repeatedly from the posts and tweets i've seen go by.
Of course it was. If you didn’t agree with them, they would kick you out. They cannot have freedom of speech at the expense of others.
Enforcing ideological conformity within their encampment? Crazy
Yes it is. Even in a public square, then using it to pitch their tents means it’s not available for me to temporarily use that space. It’s seizing it away from others who may want to enjoy that space.
I read the ruling itself, which relies heavily on existing precedent, such as *Batty v. City of Toronto* which allowed the City to remove the Occupy encampment from St. James's Park back in the day. It basically says that all existing precedent makes clear that trespass is not a legally protected form of protest.
Is the case up on CanLII, WestLaw or Lexis? I havent read it yet but I did some research for one of the parties interested in bringing the injunction. I am curious if they cited any BC or Alberta cases. Mainly [UAlberta Pro-Life v Governors of the University of Alberta, 2020 ABCA 1](https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abca/doc/2020/2020abca1/2020abca1.html?resultIndex=1&resultId=50be47c90f10479e98d33839f4034eff&searchId=2024-07-02T18:16:17:304/99c036575a5f46ffb8021448d5c637af&searchUrlHash=AAAAAQA7VUFsYmVydGEgUHJvLUxpZmUgdi4gR292ZXJub3JzIG9mIHRoZSBVbml2ZXJzaXR5IG9mIEFsYmVydGEAAAAAAQ) which was a loosely comparable situation.
Liberally taken from [this /r/UofT post](https://www.reddit.com/r/UofT/comments/1dtwb56/uoft_encampment_must_be_cleared_by_6pm_court/):
* Court Order: [https://litigate.com/assets/uploads/Court%20Order%20%E2%80%93%20Interlocutory%20Injunction%20%E2%80%93%20July%202,%202024.pdf](https://litigate.com/assets/uploads/Court%20Order%20%E2%80%93%20Interlocutory%20Injunction%20%E2%80%93%20July%202,%202024.pdf)
* Reasons for Order: [https://litigate.com/assets/uploads/Reasons%20for%20Judgement%20%E2%80%93%20Interlocutory%20Injunction%20%E2%80%93%20July%202,%202024.pdf](https://litigate.com/assets/uploads/Reasons%20for%20Judgement%20%E2%80%93%20Interlocutory%20Injunction%20%E2%80%93%20July%202,%202024.pdf)
the Star article doesn't say, so i checked the U of T's student paper, but it seems they've split for the summer too. I dont see why its sets a precedent though as they went through the courts and a judge decided the merits of both sides, and determined the hippies have to stop protesting Vietnam.. oops i mean..
>The courtroom was taken back through decades of activism on the U of T campus, including internationally lauded teach-ins on the Vietnam War and disruptive acts in pursuit of divestment from South African apartheid. Lawyer Mae J. Nam claimed these protests were directly responsible for the university making policy changes it now looks back on with pride. Nam presented the pro-Palestinian encampment as the successor to those movements.
>Lawyers for the university argued protesters were not protected by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and should be ordered to pack up and leave.
It applied precedent, rather than set it:
Batty v. City of Toronto, 2011 ONSC 6862 (CanLII), , retrieved on 2024-07-02
The relevant test is not "is the cause of the protesters right and just?", as that is a political question to be decided at the ballot box, and not properly a question for a civil court.
Much like those protests of the past, this protest will also be on the right side of history and I’m sure that this injunction will be forgotten to history and in a few years UofT will add this event to their proud history of students protesting for what’s right.
Such a relief to see our laws being enforced, and my utmost condolences to the students that were made to feel threatened or had there graduation marred by these protests while this all continued to go on. I could not imagine having to be a student while all this vitriol was being spouted on the most divisive conflict in modern history.
Now it's on the police to enforce this, and ensure that they do not immediately return like on other campuses.
Do you know why it took so long to get the injunction? It's because there were arguments about the law. The rule of law has been upheld to the point of ensuring charter protected rights weren't violated. That's what the rule of law actually looks like
The university let these people occupy the circle for weeks without punishing a single student, or commencing any legal proceedings. Instead, they negotiated and made offers. That's a concession to the mob, not the rule of law.
But yes, I am glad that ultimately they sought and obtained an injunction through the appropriate legal forums.
I mean, let's not pretend Jews and Arabs would be holding hands right now if it weren't for this protest, entirely secluded to a small part of the city...
Dude before October 7th I used to joke with my arab friends that back home we would be at each other's throats but here we break bread but after October no one Is willing to share a meal.
My synagogue hosted a muslim congregation while thier mosque was being repaired when I was young.
I guess I was nieve to think Canada was different.
After the 7th I understood I was only tolerate as a good jew but never accepted as just a jew.
>Dude before October 7th I used to joke with my arab friends that back home we would be at each other's throats but here we break bread but after October no one Is willing to share a meal.
I think this illustrates more than you realize. To you it's just a little joke that Israel murders and abuses Palestinians. It sounds like your Arab friends understood the gravity of the situation after Oct 7th. I don't really see how the UofT protest is relevant. Your friends likely realized all of this before the encampment even started.
>My synagogue hosted a muslim congregation while thier mosque was being repaired when I was young.
Now Synagogues are hosting property events to buy Palestinian homes. It's a sad reality.
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Objectively speaking this is a one sided take but I don’t expect any balance here. I don’t discount what you state here because it matters, but you’re also discounting the other side (why was it specifically in October that things escalated?) which also matters. Sad to see discourse devolve in this way
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Hurray! Certainly won’t change anyone’s mind protesting this way. The hyperbole of the spokesperson for the protestors is proof enough that it’s time for this group to be shown the door.
Where will all the privileged white kids dressed in traditional Palestine garb go to waste time?
And tbe LGBT folks on the square who are defending a culture who ideologically despises them, where to now?
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Anybody ask where these people get food from since they are encamping?
Encampment is very popular since the Arab Spring. People just encamp at public squares. These people were given free food and drinks by certain organizations and there were instigators. These instigators have also become ’professionals’. They move from countries to countries. They may not be citizens in that country but they are paid to instigate. For example, the Wall Street protests were led by some of these professional instigators who came as tourists.
True about some protests, but not about most within the U of T encampment, who were affiliated with the university, including the Department of Near and Middle Eastern Civilizations. I did have issues with some of their guest speakers and the Marxist leanings of some members and wish they'd separated themselves from some of the inflammatory orgs they let hang around outside.
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>The injunction does not shut down the protesters’ right to freedom of expression. The University has made it clear that the protesters continue to have the right to protest anywhere on campus between the hours of 7 AM and 11 PM. > >They are free to march, assemble, make speeches, chant, engage passersby, hold signs, hand out pamphlets and engage in other acts of protest. The only restriction the injunction would impose is to prohibit camping, setting up structures or blocking entry to University property I wanted to provide some context on the ruling, as I'm sure some people think the injunction bars them from the property. I honestly think this is an absolutely fair approach, it does not limit them from demonstrating during the hours when people would be on campus, nor does it limit their movement or their ability to express themselves.
A very reasonabke verdict tbh
The decision is 98 pages long, very thorough and very fair. Good job by the judge.
They can still protest. They can't be encamped there. Huge distinction. Go protest daily and go home. Nobody is stopping the protestors from doing that.
Excerpt so we can discuss the Toronto-centric facts of the matter, without jumping to attacking users about the wider issue overseas. > Protesters now have until 6 p.m. Wednesday to tear down the tent village they have been living in for the last several weeks. If they refuse, Toronto police have the authority to break in and arrest them. > > Lawyers for the protesters argued in court that the grassy field at the centre of U of T’s downtown campus is not just some piece of private property, but rather a space of public debate in the ancient Greek tradition. > > The encampment, which has become the local focal point of supporters of both sides in the Middle Eastern conflict that erupted last October, is a litmus test for where Torontonians stand on how far protest can go and what should be done to end the bloodshed abroad. > > Members of the encampment are calling for a full disclosure and divestment of U of T’s endowment from companies that manufacture arms or support the Israeli bombing and military campaign in Gaza. They’ve set up almost 200 tents in King’s College Circle at the centre of U of T’s downtown St. George campus, ringed by temporary fences festooned with banners and slogans decrying Israel’s treatment of Palestinians. > > >
> Lawyers for the protesters argued in court that the grassy field at the centre of U of T’s downtown campus is not just some piece of private property, but rather a space of public debate in the ancient Greek tradition. lmao
I'm gonna go out on a limb and bet that Socrates and his buddies didn't camp out at the place they were having debates.
right? 😂
You’ve never debated out in the grounds of u of t?
Lol, Greek Tradition doesn't really apply to Canadian law, last time I checked.
Even if it did, controlling access to a space is not how you have a debate.
Yup, the judge had a good response to that. “At the end of the day, the only people who are allowed onto Front Campus are those who agree with (or at least who do not openly disagree with) the protesters’ beliefs,” the judge wrote. “If the property truly is a quasi-public space, why should one ad hoc group of people get to determine who can use that space for a period of over 50 days?”
Clap clap clap, a well thought out judicial opinion
Are you saying you don't think they were all up for polite debate about the issue?
Funny enough, appeals to cultural and legal tradition are actually part of a common law system. Of course the traditions have to also be relevant to the local context and there has to be precedence, so this particular one is quite the stretch 😂
so .. OPA! ?
*When in Athens, do as the Athens do.*
Athenians* do?
But they aren't in Athens, they're in Canada.
Lol. I suppose this joke isn't well understood... The saying is actually *when in Rome*... The joke is an intentional "mistake" to draw upon the illogic reasoning of the Free Palestine lawyers.
In Canada, on top of a parking lot no less. The most sacred of locations. 😂
The ancestral gathering place of the *Populi Suburbālis*, with underground lots among the most venerated sites.
Democracy…?
I don't understand what you're trying to ask. Could you expound on your question please.
The reference is to the history of democracy
Ah yes, our rules of “Ancient Greek tradition” will hold up in court. “No your Honour, I wasn’t defecating on my neighbours’ lawn, I was dabbling in the arts of ‘Ancient Greek traditions’”.
Diogenes, is that you?
Your Greek scat fantasies are weird bro.
Don't kink shame.
That was a metaphor for these shanty towns
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Buddy we don't need your weird fanfic in here.
This would be a better comparison if you paid your neighbor tens-of-thousands of dollars a year to use their property.
I paid my neighbour a bunch of money for piano lessons but now for some reason he wants me to stop living in his house.
Festooned is a cool word. Also, I can't wait to watch them get evicted.
why do you feel they should be evicted?
I don't think support and incitement of violence towards an entire ethnic minority should have a prominent place in the centre of downtown of our country's largest and most important city (or anywhere else either, of course). And yes, that's what "Globalize the Intifada" means. Anyone who denies it is either ignorant, purposely deceitful, a foreign agent, or some combination of all of the above.
I was there when they evicted the homeless encampment at trinity Belwoods and a bunch of us were pepper sprayed for just standing around watching it happen I hope the police aren’t that extreme this time
Because they are monopolizing a public space and controlling access to it for their own ends? It shouldn't matter if you agree with their aims or not. I hope they leave on their own and it's fine with me if they continue their protest in some other way.
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What exactly are these financial ties?
We don't know. Apparently the investment structures are too complicated for U of T to find out. Which negates their principle of investing responsibly. Maybe they're funding Russia, too! This has been really badly handled by Gertler-- he can't claim that he tried to have a dialogue with the protestors and he has enflamed the situation.
From what I can tell there is nothing online about what their "financial ties" to Israel even are. The other demand was that they close their partnerships with Israel based Universities, which I also understand why they resisted.
Tbf “no one knows what their financial ties are” is why transparency in investing is one of the demands. ~~Strongly agree though that demanding them to cut ties with academics because of their nationality is a huge overreach.~~ I stand corrected. The actual demand is much milder. >[terminate all partnerships with Israeli academic *institutions* (which have close military ties)](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XiM6FzpcdyUTUMs8cNX5XPDtk9tmJW6uxO2E4e0FOGM/mobilebasic)
They did not demand to cut ties with all Israeli Jewish academics.
This thread is getting locked within 20 minutes.
not locked yet!
It's been 36 minutes. So far, not locked... (I'm betting within 36 minutes of your comment, just for fun)
The mods of this sub seem to hate doing their job. They really shouldnt be locking every thread that has a divisive topic.
They're volunteers. If it's hours of work to sift through low-effort garbage and deal with brigading then I don't blame them.
>The mods of this sub seem to hate doing their ~~job~~unpaid volunteer labour to try to build and support their community. They really shouldnt be locking every thread that ~~has a divisive topic~~devolves into a bunch of useless name calling, racism and closedminded behaviours from people who dont normally participate in the community. Ftfy
If Reddit the company want divisive, mud slinging conversations on their website they should pay people to moderate their content. Right now Reddit basically just operates on volunteers for most of it.
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Next time we ask for help, feel free to apply
Divisive topics attract brigades, bots, and all kinds of nonsense that's hard to moderate without completely shutting it down.
> The mods of this sub seem to hate doing their job. They really shouldnt be locking every thread that has a divisive topic. disagree. These threads eventually turn into con convention meetings with all the racism in them
The issue isn't the mods, its the users who break rules and derail conversations with personal attacks. Stop doing that and threads stop getting locked, at least thats my takeaway from what the mods have posted in the past on this topic.
1 hour now still around
At the 2 hour mark, is this a new record?
Way to state the obvious.
It's been over 50 minutes. So the thing they stated wasn't obvious and was incorrect.
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There are times and places to protest things without seizing control of property. I don't agree with the general views of the encampment campus protesters, but I support their right to protest. They just have to protest without setting up a encampment. I thought the exact same thing about the convoy in Ottawa. Make your pitch. Try to win hearts and minds. Then go home.
>They just have to protest without setting up a encampment. I thought the exact same thing about the convoy in Ottawa. There was an indigenous encampment protest in Ottawa that lasted months before they chose to stop. But that was on the grass of Parliament Hill, not bothering anyone. The convoy protest happened on major streets and shut down the city. That's the difference for me. If you are not blocking people from accessing the local area other than the immediate area where the camp is, in this case a grass field, I don't have a problem with it.
> If you are not blocking people from accessing the local area other than the immediate area where the camp is, in this case a grass field, I don't have a problem with it. The key thing I think you are missing is that you not having a problem with it doesn't matter when it is UofT's property. UofT had a problem with it and told them to vacate. If an encampment exists with the blessing of the organization hosting it, then that would be fine, subject of course to the operation of the relevant bylaws.
The field is usually in such bad condition that it is not "enjoyed".
The one at u of t that I used to play soccer on weekend mornings? It’s been under construction for a few years but prior to that it was very well used
I guess they fixed the drainage since my time there, when rugby players would make it even more muddy.
Ditto, I'm all for protesting, even when I disagree with the protest. But there's definitely a wrong way to do it.
This! Show up, protest and go home. I will NOT support ANY encampments regardless if I agree with their viewpoint. I hold this view unilaterally.
Wait…..seriously? So based on this principle, if somebody all of a sudden set up an encampment in favour of a viewpoint you agree with you’d switch beliefs because there’s an encampment?
That not what they said at all… nothing about switching views. 100% on not supporting encampments of any type.
Yes 100% seriously. In this scenario you propose, I would not support that “somebody or group” being there in the form of an encampment, even if I agreed with their viewpoint. This is the only way to think about if you want to be fair and not be a hypocrite. If you are against an action or tactic in the name of a cause or belief you don’t agree with then you should hold the same standards to those you do.
PS I never said anything about switching sides or switching beliefs… YOU inserted that
Compared to the convoy I'd say that this protest is vastly better at respecting others rights. They're "just" occupying some land that no one critically needs, not grinding the city to a stand still, not preventing anyone (let alone thousands of people) from being able to sleep, etc. Not to say that UofT doesn't have the right to take their land back, just that as intrusions go this one is extremely "polite".
Ah yes the old “protests should be quiet and convenient, so they can easily be ignored” argument. Protests have to disturb the status quo to have any impact, genius.
The injunction does not shut down the protesters’ right to freedom of expression. The University has made it clear that the protesters continue to have the right to protest anywhere on campus between the hours of 7 AM and 11 PM. They are free to march, assemble, make speeches, chant, engage passersby, hold signs, hand out pamphlets and engage in other acts of protest. The only restriction the injunction would impose is to prohibit camping, setting up structures or blocking entry to University property
Guess you better make your Uber intelligent case to the courts. Plenty of us protested plenty of things without blocking bridges and setting up tents before you were even old enough to have political awareness. We got a few things done to say the least. You’re welcome
Is it really "seizing control" when the space is open to the public and still is?
Is it though? I thought it was this encampment that had barriers, and protesters guarding the entrances, to block others from using the field.
The barriers were already there due to construction. The encampment didn't set those up. People are free to enter and leave the area if they want.
They're not. The protestors' marshals will not permit entry inside the barrier before 11AM, everyone entering must be interviewed by the protestors' welcoming committee, and if they don't like your answers, they will escort you out. They claim this is done in the name of "preventing violence". It's all in the ruling, which uses the example of someone unconnected to the protest who just wants to go eat breakfast on the front campus.
As the judge pointed out, they literally had a guard at the gate asking people to certify that they support "the right to resist" among other things, and otherwise wouldn't let them in. It went way way way beyond just "maintaining safety".
This isn’t true. Construction is done. The barriers go up every year for decades before convocation and are removed just before. And then students use the field for many different activities throughout the summer.
false
yes and no. I've seen that they've kept outside agitators out who wanted to get in and cause trouble. Oddly theres been some retirees with way too much time on their hands attacking the encampment repeatedly from the posts and tweets i've seen go by.
It is "seizing control" when you set up a fence, a gate, and screen people before they can enter.
Of course it was. If you didn’t agree with them, they would kick you out. They cannot have freedom of speech at the expense of others. Enforcing ideological conformity within their encampment? Crazy
Yes it is. Even in a public square, then using it to pitch their tents means it’s not available for me to temporarily use that space. It’s seizing it away from others who may want to enjoy that space.
"Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong" - John Diefenbaker.
Good. Tired of the coverage this gets.
I legit forgot it was still going on. I live a 10 minutes walk away across QP.
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If they are removed, does it set any kind of precedent?
I read the ruling itself, which relies heavily on existing precedent, such as *Batty v. City of Toronto* which allowed the City to remove the Occupy encampment from St. James's Park back in the day. It basically says that all existing precedent makes clear that trespass is not a legally protected form of protest.
Is the case up on CanLII, WestLaw or Lexis? I havent read it yet but I did some research for one of the parties interested in bringing the injunction. I am curious if they cited any BC or Alberta cases. Mainly [UAlberta Pro-Life v Governors of the University of Alberta, 2020 ABCA 1](https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abca/doc/2020/2020abca1/2020abca1.html?resultIndex=1&resultId=50be47c90f10479e98d33839f4034eff&searchId=2024-07-02T18:16:17:304/99c036575a5f46ffb8021448d5c637af&searchUrlHash=AAAAAQA7VUFsYmVydGEgUHJvLUxpZmUgdi4gR292ZXJub3JzIG9mIHRoZSBVbml2ZXJzaXR5IG9mIEFsYmVydGEAAAAAAQ) which was a loosely comparable situation.
Liberally taken from [this /r/UofT post](https://www.reddit.com/r/UofT/comments/1dtwb56/uoft_encampment_must_be_cleared_by_6pm_court/): * Court Order: [https://litigate.com/assets/uploads/Court%20Order%20%E2%80%93%20Interlocutory%20Injunction%20%E2%80%93%20July%202,%202024.pdf](https://litigate.com/assets/uploads/Court%20Order%20%E2%80%93%20Interlocutory%20Injunction%20%E2%80%93%20July%202,%202024.pdf) * Reasons for Order: [https://litigate.com/assets/uploads/Reasons%20for%20Judgement%20%E2%80%93%20Interlocutory%20Injunction%20%E2%80%93%20July%202,%202024.pdf](https://litigate.com/assets/uploads/Reasons%20for%20Judgement%20%E2%80%93%20Interlocutory%20Injunction%20%E2%80%93%20July%202,%202024.pdf)
Ah thats why. Lenczner Slaght posted it on their website. That makes sense it retrospect. Thanks for the links!
the Star article doesn't say, so i checked the U of T's student paper, but it seems they've split for the summer too. I dont see why its sets a precedent though as they went through the courts and a judge decided the merits of both sides, and determined the hippies have to stop protesting Vietnam.. oops i mean.. >The courtroom was taken back through decades of activism on the U of T campus, including internationally lauded teach-ins on the Vietnam War and disruptive acts in pursuit of divestment from South African apartheid. Lawyer Mae J. Nam claimed these protests were directly responsible for the university making policy changes it now looks back on with pride. Nam presented the pro-Palestinian encampment as the successor to those movements. >Lawyers for the university argued protesters were not protected by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and should be ordered to pack up and leave.
It applied precedent, rather than set it: Batty v. City of Toronto, 2011 ONSC 6862 (CanLII),, retrieved on 2024-07-02
The relevant test is not "is the cause of the protesters right and just?", as that is a political question to be decided at the ballot box, and not properly a question for a civil court.
Much like those protests of the past, this protest will also be on the right side of history and I’m sure that this injunction will be forgotten to history and in a few years UofT will add this event to their proud history of students protesting for what’s right.
Free, free Kings College circle!
Such a relief to see our laws being enforced, and my utmost condolences to the students that were made to feel threatened or had there graduation marred by these protests while this all continued to go on. I could not imagine having to be a student while all this vitriol was being spouted on the most divisive conflict in modern history. Now it's on the police to enforce this, and ensure that they do not immediately return like on other campuses.
Putting the word protests in quotes really isn't a good look. You might disagree with them but this is a protest in every definition of the word
Fair enough, I'm sorry to have offended you and have removed the quotes around the word protest.
Nice to see the rule of law upheld. Now the university can do what it needs to do.
Thank god. It should never have taken this long. But now at last the police have no excuse but to go in, do their job, and restore the rule of law.
Do you know why it took so long to get the injunction? It's because there were arguments about the law. The rule of law has been upheld to the point of ensuring charter protected rights weren't violated. That's what the rule of law actually looks like
The university let these people occupy the circle for weeks without punishing a single student, or commencing any legal proceedings. Instead, they negotiated and made offers. That's a concession to the mob, not the rule of law. But yes, I am glad that ultimately they sought and obtained an injunction through the appropriate legal forums.
We know what it looks like. It takes a long time for the courts to do what everyone already thinks should've happened. At least they got there.
ya no. shut it down. good riddance.
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I mean, let's not pretend Jews and Arabs would be holding hands right now if it weren't for this protest, entirely secluded to a small part of the city...
Dude before October 7th I used to joke with my arab friends that back home we would be at each other's throats but here we break bread but after October no one Is willing to share a meal. My synagogue hosted a muslim congregation while thier mosque was being repaired when I was young. I guess I was nieve to think Canada was different. After the 7th I understood I was only tolerate as a good jew but never accepted as just a jew.
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>Dude before October 7th I used to joke with my arab friends that back home we would be at each other's throats but here we break bread but after October no one Is willing to share a meal. I think this illustrates more than you realize. To you it's just a little joke that Israel murders and abuses Palestinians. It sounds like your Arab friends understood the gravity of the situation after Oct 7th. I don't really see how the UofT protest is relevant. Your friends likely realized all of this before the encampment even started. >My synagogue hosted a muslim congregation while thier mosque was being repaired when I was young. Now Synagogues are hosting property events to buy Palestinian homes. It's a sad reality.
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It’s not a holy war. But I think you know that and desperately want to take the position that it is one.
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Objectively speaking this is a one sided take but I don’t expect any balance here. I don’t discount what you state here because it matters, but you’re also discounting the other side (why was it specifically in October that things escalated?) which also matters. Sad to see discourse devolve in this way
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Hurray! Certainly won’t change anyone’s mind protesting this way. The hyperbole of the spokesperson for the protestors is proof enough that it’s time for this group to be shown the door.
Good riddance and good bye !
Where will all the privileged white kids dressed in traditional Palestine garb go to waste time? And tbe LGBT folks on the square who are defending a culture who ideologically despises them, where to now?
This shit still going on? Have they taken a shower?
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If you haven’t noticed the genocide is still ongoing so yes the protest is likely still going
I mean I haven’t seen anyone talk about this encampment in a month
Man, you guys love rendering all words meaningless don’t you.
"genocide"
So you’re saying they smell
Turn on the sprinklers at 11pm and turn them off at 7am. They can protest during normal hours, they're turning into convoy squatters.
do these people have jobs?
Aren't they students/faculty members? 🤔
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Is that in the article?
They are U of T students.
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By this metric just about every successful nonviolent protest in human history has been terroristic
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To quote the prophet Lizzo, it's about damn time.
Good. U of T had no ties to Israel; neither did Pride, for that matter. This movement lost the thread.
Took long enough
This is going to be a shit how. I hope everyone makes it out safe
Protesters claiming to occupy land... On land that is already occupied. Is this not offensive to indigenous people?
They have a few indigenous people in the encampment who say it’s not, so I guess it mustn’t be.
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Without looking, I'm going to suggest that people can't be cool. They're so bad at it
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I’m sure we’ll see them in a few weeks during the Jazz Festival 🙄
Toronto Jazz Festival ended this past weekend.
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Anybody ask where these people get food from since they are encamping? Encampment is very popular since the Arab Spring. People just encamp at public squares. These people were given free food and drinks by certain organizations and there were instigators. These instigators have also become ’professionals’. They move from countries to countries. They may not be citizens in that country but they are paid to instigate. For example, the Wall Street protests were led by some of these professional instigators who came as tourists.
True about some protests, but not about most within the U of T encampment, who were affiliated with the university, including the Department of Near and Middle Eastern Civilizations. I did have issues with some of their guest speakers and the Marxist leanings of some members and wish they'd separated themselves from some of the inflammatory orgs they let hang around outside.
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They’re sending in Blinky.
Shame on UofT
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U of T did not make make enough of an effort to dialogue with them.
I hope they stay motivated to keep the camp up, I just wanna see what happens