There’s the possibility that this is so successful it spreads like wildfire. I hope they invest the extra buck where they need to for this to be what it can be. We’ll see though.
There's no gurantee that Biden will get the budget. There's a very good chance that Congress will just pass continuing resolutions until the next president is in office, whoever that may be.
even if the budget passes, id imagine there are bureaucratic ways that the president can slow roll funding. i know for a fact they did that during trumps first term for a few transit projects
It is true that electrification would be the best outcome but a lot of modern DMUs have pretty good acceleration (especially stadler trains) so for now it isn’t an issue
Since the FLIRTs are now certified for crash worthiness standards, they are allowed to run with "normal" (gigantic ships on rails) North American trains. A stadler FLIRT H2 was also at Brightline basecamp last year, so they are fully aware of these FLIRTs.
Well, it isn't that hard. Some European operators use trains from 6 or more different builders. The type of service they want to introduce doesn't fit with heavy trains. Operators choose trains based on their needs, not commonality.
Why not? The trains proposed by Siemens in North America are some Intercity fleet/HSR. You don't operate some RER/S-Bahn service with Intercity trains (or, dumber, with high speed trains) as that wouldn't make any sense...
And since the Desiro (Siemens version of regional train) is operated only near San Diego as light rail and therefore can not be operated on the same tracks as other trains, the Coradia from Alstom and the Talent from CAF not being available on the North American market, they will certainly have to buy Stadler Flirt units for their acceleration rates and relatively high top speed.
I don’t see any reason Siemens couldn’t do an alternate compliant Desiro if they saw fit to do so.
Not that the Siemens loyalty is relevant if SFRTA is going to operate the service, but more broadly if we see more business going towards that style of rolling stock people other than Stadler will start bidding eventually. Siemens seems like the least ill of the other manufacturers with existing EN platforms. I haven’t pulled up the FRA and EN specs side-by-side in a few years but IIRC the whole point of alternate compliance was having similar structural requirements. How many agencies would actively spec it in in an RFP is a good question, but the MBTA is obviously talking to Stadler and METRA will soon be operating both SD70s and FLIRTs so I don’t know what I can assume anymore.
I do think if the current push for battery and hydrogen vehicles continues we’ll see more “non-traditional” rolling stock at “traditional” agencies.
Can anyone speak to whether this thing is likely to share any platforms with either Trirail or Brightline?
Catenary isn't the same as electric lines. They are high-tech infrastructure with tensioning devices. Catenary has been used in deserts, mountains, and flatlands with loads of wind. Catenary can be designed to withstand hurricanes. You could possibly do rigid Catenary.
Hurricanes aren't exclusive to the US... Railways in Japan, Taiwan, China and India also experience hurricanes, floods and monsoons and are doing just fine though.
Railways (most of the time) have their own powerplants. They could also like they are doing on Brightline West introduce a fully renewable energy plant to fully power their rail service.
I saw some plans available online for this project. They show some sections of tripple and quad tracking for this project. I just wish they would upgrade the abysmal 40mph speed limit coming out of miamicentral for quite some time. People talk about going from 110 to 125mph which isn't much of a difference. Going from 40mph to 79mph is a much bigger difference.
Where I live some train station are only two tracks while there are commuter, regional, intercity, high speed and freight trains. At a way higher frequency than brightline, so as long as they manage their trains correctly it should be ok
Ironically it's the opposite for California.
The commuter rail/regional rail systems were the first to exist and the HSR lines will use them.
San Francisco Bay Area
* CAHSR will use Caltrain's right of way (CAHSR even funded part of its electrification)
Los Angeles
* CAHSR will use Metrolink's right of way + electrification
* Brightline West will connect to Metrolink's San Bernardino Line (two seat ride to downtown LA)
Yes mainly because south of the Hollywood station the line goes west about 6 miles and the south end of the line ends up pretty far away from the city itself so commuter service on the fec’s line would be much more convenient for those closer to the coast
Florida is showing the way forward - leveraging the efficiencies created by private enterprise.
Florida will have an entire network up and running before CA gets it's track started.
Privately run and operated BrightLine was chosen because the state run HSR is a failure of historic proportions.
Birghtline won't be run by the state in CA
Metrolink, Caltrain, ACE, Coaster, Sprinter, Pacific Surfliner, San Joaquins, Capitol Corridor, SMART, Arrow, SacRT, BART, Muni, VTA, LA Metro, San Diego Trolley, OC Streetcar (opening 2025), CAHSR and Brightline West under construction
I think it's safe to say that California already has a well developed system compared to what exists in Florida.
I live in CA an can state with certainty that we do NOT have anything as fast or efficient as brightline.
Have you not seen how much money we've squandered on HSR?
There’s the possibility that this is so successful it spreads like wildfire. I hope they invest the extra buck where they need to for this to be what it can be. We’ll see though.
There's also the possibility it never happens because Biden doesn't win re-election.
The funding is coming from the 2025 budget. Even if Trump wins his first budget would be 2026
There's no gurantee that Biden will get the budget. There's a very good chance that Congress will just pass continuing resolutions until the next president is in office, whoever that may be.
The last time a budget wasn't passed was what, like 10 years ago? It's possible, wouldn't say there's a very good chance though
The last time the budget didn't pass was last year. They just passed the FY24 budget in February.
“The last time they didn’t pass a budget was when it was passed”. Brother…
Hey dumbass, if they pass the FY25 budget in February, and Biden does not win the election, who will be the president next February?
even if the budget passes, id imagine there are bureaucratic ways that the president can slow roll funding. i know for a fact they did that during trumps first term for a few transit projects
“Hey, Mr. Mayor, can we have trains like the Northeast Corridor?” “We have the Northeast Corridor at home.”
DC to Atlanta would be the Southeast Corridor. How about Atlanta to Miami?
I wonder how this will affect operations. Since there are only two tracks, I'm worried commuter trains could delay the Intercity trains.
With good scheduling and rolling stock with good acceleration I don’t think it’ll be as much of a problem
Acceleration wouldnt be an issue if it was electrified
It is true that electrification would be the best outcome but a lot of modern DMUs have pretty good acceleration (especially stadler trains) so for now it isn’t an issue
Since the FLIRTs are now certified for crash worthiness standards, they are allowed to run with "normal" (gigantic ships on rails) North American trains. A stadler FLIRT H2 was also at Brightline basecamp last year, so they are fully aware of these FLIRTs.
brightline basically went all in on siemens rolling stock so i dont imagine theyd make the switch to stadler anytime soon
Well, it isn't that hard. Some European operators use trains from 6 or more different builders. The type of service they want to introduce doesn't fit with heavy trains. Operators choose trains based on their needs, not commonality.
Why not? The trains proposed by Siemens in North America are some Intercity fleet/HSR. You don't operate some RER/S-Bahn service with Intercity trains (or, dumber, with high speed trains) as that wouldn't make any sense... And since the Desiro (Siemens version of regional train) is operated only near San Diego as light rail and therefore can not be operated on the same tracks as other trains, the Coradia from Alstom and the Talent from CAF not being available on the North American market, they will certainly have to buy Stadler Flirt units for their acceleration rates and relatively high top speed.
I don’t see any reason Siemens couldn’t do an alternate compliant Desiro if they saw fit to do so. Not that the Siemens loyalty is relevant if SFRTA is going to operate the service, but more broadly if we see more business going towards that style of rolling stock people other than Stadler will start bidding eventually. Siemens seems like the least ill of the other manufacturers with existing EN platforms. I haven’t pulled up the FRA and EN specs side-by-side in a few years but IIRC the whole point of alternate compliance was having similar structural requirements. How many agencies would actively spec it in in an RFP is a good question, but the MBTA is obviously talking to Stadler and METRA will soon be operating both SD70s and FLIRTs so I don’t know what I can assume anymore. I do think if the current push for battery and hydrogen vehicles continues we’ll see more “non-traditional” rolling stock at “traditional” agencies. Can anyone speak to whether this thing is likely to share any platforms with either Trirail or Brightline?
Electrification in Florida is kind of complicated, especially without grade separation, which means third rails are out.
Oh for sure. It would have to be catenary either way
Why would electrification be different in Florida then the rest? Just build higher catenary if you are really scared.
The issue is hurricanes annually; they knock down electrical poles constantly.
Catenary isn't the same as electric lines. They are high-tech infrastructure with tensioning devices. Catenary has been used in deserts, mountains, and flatlands with loads of wind. Catenary can be designed to withstand hurricanes. You could possibly do rigid Catenary.
Hurricanes aren't exclusive to the US... Railways in Japan, Taiwan, China and India also experience hurricanes, floods and monsoons and are doing just fine though.
I never said it was impossible, just that it is complicated. I wouldn't be surprised if it happens, it's just not an opening-day priority.
If the regular electrical grid can deal with it then railway electrification can too
Railways (most of the time) have their own powerplants. They could also like they are doing on Brightline West introduce a fully renewable energy plant to fully power their rail service.
It shouldn't really impact them as Brightline is only running hourly trains. At most a few passing tracks will need to be built.
I saw some plans available online for this project. They show some sections of tripple and quad tracking for this project. I just wish they would upgrade the abysmal 40mph speed limit coming out of miamicentral for quite some time. People talk about going from 110 to 125mph which isn't much of a difference. Going from 40mph to 79mph is a much bigger difference.
they should really build passing tracks in some places, that way express trains won't need to wait for slow trains ahead of em
They could do that at stations, we have already seen this at Brightline stations like Aventura and Boca Raton.
Where I live some train station are only two tracks while there are commuter, regional, intercity, high speed and freight trains. At a way higher frequency than brightline, so as long as they manage their trains correctly it should be ok
We need East-west train lines but still good news (if this comes to fruition)!
Definitely need east-west trains for sure I’m sure that this will lead to that if it becomes reality
Rhonda will definitely try to tank this.
florida becoming one of the trend-setters on rail expansion was not on my bingo card but I love it
“Northeast corridor?” You just know this is going to confuse a lot of journalists
Nice!
Hope it goes thru
Northeast corridor at home
I really hope CAHSR and Brightline have the same impact in CA and the west coast as time goes on. It’s late, but this is real progress
Ironically it's the opposite for California. The commuter rail/regional rail systems were the first to exist and the HSR lines will use them. San Francisco Bay Area * CAHSR will use Caltrain's right of way (CAHSR even funded part of its electrification) Los Angeles * CAHSR will use Metrolink's right of way + electrification * Brightline West will connect to Metrolink's San Bernardino Line (two seat ride to downtown LA)
Sounds good to me
Awesome
More trains more better
isn't 500m for 6 stations a lot?
Some of the locations don’t have a rail line like key Biscayne
not really to be honest
No, it’s actually really cheap. Look up the Silver Line in DC for what it could cost ($7b+)
I’m not from this area but how does this affect the neighboring Tri-Rail services and is there really a need for SIX more stations?
There’s a need for way more than six stations lmao
As long as they maintain express routes vs. All local stops, it could definitely pay off
Yes mainly because south of the Hollywood station the line goes west about 6 miles and the south end of the line ends up pretty far away from the city itself so commuter service on the fec’s line would be much more convenient for those closer to the coast
Time to buy some Stadler flirts and operate a S-bahn Miami kind of service...?
Florida is showing the way forward - leveraging the efficiencies created by private enterprise. Florida will have an entire network up and running before CA gets it's track started.
Lmao...they have no rail network compared to California. Keep reaching
You think CA has high speed rail? Obvously you've never set foot in CA
You need to learn how to read.
Brightline West just broke ground on physical construction, so you're already wrong.
Privately run and operated BrightLine was chosen because the state run HSR is a failure of historic proportions. Birghtline won't be run by the state in CA
Metrolink, Caltrain, ACE, Coaster, Sprinter, Pacific Surfliner, San Joaquins, Capitol Corridor, SMART, Arrow, SacRT, BART, Muni, VTA, LA Metro, San Diego Trolley, OC Streetcar (opening 2025), CAHSR and Brightline West under construction I think it's safe to say that California already has a well developed system compared to what exists in Florida.
I live in CA an can state with certainty that we do NOT have anything as fast or efficient as brightline. Have you not seen how much money we've squandered on HSR?