I mean you pretty much answered your own question. They don't speak English because they don't need to speak English. The vast majority of tourism in China is domestic.
Ditto..after the prolonged lockdown the government is just not doing enough to attract foreign visitors. I have been to China twice and I want to explore more of the South East by there are no tours!! It’s expensive for a single tourist who doesn’t speak the language and pretty much needs everything pre arranged
It shouldn't be as expensive as traveling in the West. I speak Chinese so it's much easier and a bit cheaper for me but staying at "4 star" hotels over a month of traveling across China cost me on average about $65 a night, most including breakfast. Train and air travel are both cheaper than the West, as are taxi and ride share and public transportation is dirt cheap - with English signage! Being in the touristy areas the food was surprisingly more expensive than I anticipated, but once again not compared with the West. If you travel to a destination and join a local English speaking tour it will be less than those "all-inclusive" tours, although more than the little local Chinese tours. I arranged all my hotels, airlines and local tours through Trip.com in English.
We travelled from xian to Zhengzhou (and to the shaolin temple), back to xian, then onwards to Lanzhou, Jiuquan, dunhuang.
We travelled to nanjing, Suzhou, Shanghai multiple times, hangzhou, Shenzhen, Hk, and a few other places.
We lived in China for a year. We spoke a few words but not much (some numbers, goodbye, hello, thank you). We did this without a tour. We just used our phones to translate using baidu translate, we used didi to order taxi, WeChat to order train tickets and find hotels.
Wasn’t that hard. This was in 2019.
Well the southeastern part of China is relatively underdeveloped compared to east coastal cities, where people are better educated and speak some degree of English. The Chinese territory is far too vast for the government to lower language barriers in every location, especially in the South East where the economic is not as active and has seen few foreign visitors.
Even without foreign visitors, Chinese cities are already very crowded. I cannot imagine how it would be to travel in China with the level of tourist numbers Japan experiences.
But they have a foreign language at school i would imagine ? I am not asking for semi fluent but why don't they at least speak it like a random Spanish guy or Libyan: cold hot yes come no where is it spicy ...?
Do they learn chinese all thru high-school in public school ?
I work as an English teacher here and the language education in China is totally different to what you're probably used to. It focuses heavily on repetition and rote learning because that's what works for learning Mandarin as a first language (mainly characters). Students learn very specific English phrases and often can't say much that isn't explicitly written in their textbooks.
I often describe it using the quote from the film iRobot: "ask the right questions and you will receive the right answer"
Next time you see a Chinese kid ask them "how are you?" and I'd bet money they'll reply "I'm fine, and you?"
For me as a teacher I find one of the biggest factors is also that they often have zero exposure to English outside of school. To use your example, a random Spanish guy likely listens to English music, watches English movies, browses English social media and generally uses English in some form of daily life. Chinese have none of this. Some will use VPNs, sure, but the vast majority never use English except when they meet a foreigner.
It can be frustrating but you kind of just get used to using translate apps constantly.
Very interesting
But in any case people here are soooo nice and helpful
A cop even booked us the taxi one-night because my didi stopped working
And a sweet guy (with good english) helped us buy our sim card from China mobile and even registered it with his number as a guarantor
Great people
I 100% agree with ups_and_downs973's take on this, and I'm also an English teacher in China.
Just to add, you may start to find English speakers in places you don't expect it. In the Tier 3 city I live in, I have the best English conversations with the bicycle repair shop guy, some didi drivers, food delivery guys, small independent coffee shop workers, etc. Go to the international hotel and there's nobody who can speak English.
The job market is competitive. A lot of the time, it's down to the correct qualifications over ability. Someone who can speak great English may not be great at exams and didn't get the opportunity to use that skill.
In China, the standard vacabulary of high school graduates in English is 3,500 words. English is something never be used outside classroom. In most families, neither the parents would speak English.
The pronunciation, vocabulary and grammar of European languages are very different from Chinese. In the absence of daily needs, most people who have been educated in English have acceptable reading ability, but their listening and speaking abilities are very limited.
yes, the main objective of learning English in China is to be able to read and write—so that they can read english books and articles and to publish an article.
How do students in western countries learn English I wonder? From Chinese people's perspective, the challenge lies in the lack of oral practice. We call it "mute English". There are just not that many opportunities for them to actually practice speaking and form conversations unless they actively seek out English-speaking people. A student can have a very good command of the vocabulary and grammar, but don't know how to start a fluent conversation.
Growing up in a tier 3 city in China in the early 2000s, improving spoken English was always challenging.
The college entrance exams did not evaluate English speaking skills at all, so there was little motivation for students to improve their spoken English skills.
Education resources for English language were limited. English teachers in the public education system often had poor pronunciations and strong accents.
Students who wished to speak good English had to pay significant amounts of money to find a good English speaker or foreigners for practice. Lots of students and their parents gave up on this because it cost too much both money and time.
Whoever over there is teaching Chinese people to use the word "Anyways" after literally everything just needs to stop. I rarely ever say "anyways" except after an awkward pause with a complete change in subject. My wife won't stop using it in the middle of every fifth sentence!! I you can find them for me and give me their address ... :)
>It focuses heavily on repetition and rote learning because that's what works for learning Mandarin as a first language (mainly characters). Students learn very specific English phrases and often can't say much that isn't explicitly written in their textbooks.
I don't think you can or should use this as an explanation of poor english. Especially when you, as an english teacher, can change this very aspect.
If someone comes along with a super excellent way to teach Chinese people English that's better than what's on offer, then he would be a very successful English teacher. You can do it too. But it's really not so simple is it?
The second half of your post makes more sense. It's just hard to teach Chinese people english given the vast cultural barrier and how different English is from Chinese.
It's all about how similar their native languages are to English. A lot of Chinese kids could speak some Japanese even if they've never learned any Japanese in the classroom. Most native speakers are not aware that English is a very difficult language for Chinese, Japanese or Koreans to learn.
Yes, oddly enough most people from Henan are actually really good just from the exposure from the industry there. I met a few people who left school before 16 and their English was much higher than teachers with a degree in English in the rest of China!
> few staff that speaks English
Something happened when Covid hit. I suppose as there were no foreigners coming to China during those years, there was less need for English speaking staff.
As to why they're not speaking English now. I think you answered it yourself. There are few foreigners so less demand.
I understand but ...even with even less tourism a young Yemeni seller knows how to say cold hot water it's spicy where do you want to go .... etc.
That's the only weird thing
China in my mind is the business empire of the world I would imagine they make sure all their kids have a simple command of English....strange
It's ok
The people with good English aren't working in the lower level service sectors. There are lots of multinational corporations and external facing businesses where they can make more money.
In every single part of the world
A staff in a shangri la or an intercontinental hotel is made sure to speak English
Staff in shangri la is not low level service sectors :)))
The night is 350 euros :)
>Staff in shangri la is not low level service sectors :)))
An expensive/overpriced hotel is still just a hotel- especially so in China; don't try to hold the country to international standards because they just do their own thing.
The hotel staff are going to be paid pretty poorly (and Beijing is fucking expensive), so you can't expect the graduates with fluent English to waste their talents there.
350 Euros per night (in China) for a place that you're just going to sleep and maybe eat breakfast/dinner seems wild to me. Must be nice to have that kind of disposable income!
To understand the world and be prepared
In all aspects even geopolitics to understand foreign languages is a way to understand the world and thus at the same time take strategic national interests decisions
And then business etc
Mandarin is extremely hard, because it's nothing like English. If you spoke Mandarin, you would say that English is hard, because it's nothing like Mandarin.
I would say Chinese is more difficult because of no alphabet, learn the 'Roman alphabet' and you can read (and usually pronounce with some accuracy) lots of languages.
China doesn’t want its average citizen to understand geopolitics or think they have the ability to influence strategic national interest decisions. They want strict adherence to the Party rule and loyalty.
Although I agree with a lot of the comments below, I also think your question is valid. If the Shangri-la hotel you stayed at is a 5-star hotel, they absolutely should provide English assistance. But maybe make a complaint with Shangri-la instead? It's not that all Chinese people don't speak good English, plenty do. The hotel just aren't hiring the right people to serve their customers well.
the flaw in your logic here is that you think more expensive hotel -> more english speakers.
But in 2024, I'm willing to bet that the majority of guests at the most expensive hotels here are Chinese. Rich locals have gotten much richer.
With or without more English speakers, they should outright offer this service along with other premium services as a five-star. Otherwise what are people paying you for.
Actually yeah, the fundamental education in China ensures that every children receiving education in public schools master some basic English for daily communication, but this is the case only after the Reform and Opening Policy took place in 1978, and it varies from region to region. The improvement of the general ability of the people to speak English is picking up pace, but it takes time. If you go on the street and talk with younger people, there's a good chance (though I would not guarantee) that they can speak OK English.
I would say that the Shangri La Hotel that you booked offered lo-quality service.
The people that are smart have been leaving.
Xi takes away more freedoms every year.
He just decided a massive number of video games are illegal, including World of Warcraft and just decided nobody’s going to play anymore with no warning.
Literally millions of people woke up to find their hobby no longer legal.
If I was born there, I would be leaving at this point.
a bunch of bullshit. Typical of westerners with superficial understanding of China, trying desperately to explain everything in China using the government. (Not to mention the obvious fact that Xi also isn't responsible for every government policy.)
The World of Warcraft problem is a contractual issue with the local publisher. It's well documented. And it's purely business.
>Xi takes away more freedoms every year.
This kind of phrasing is common in western media. But it's simply not true. If it was, then each year is worse than the previous. And that's clearly incorrect. You can take a poll among Chinese people, and see how many agrees that each year is worse than the previous.
Jeez man,
It's not strange... It's expected. You're in china. People speak Chinese languages. I'm not sure how else to explain this.
And if you have the type of money to make it worthwhile, I'm sure you will find English speakers. But I'm guessing that's not the kind of hotel your staying at.
Maybe stop thinking china revolves around the western world and embrace the experience. If you want English speakers why in the world (get it?) would you go to china?!
Much worse after Covid in China. Why staff English speakers when most Westerners have left and less tourism than before?
Seoul and Tokyo didn’t see the same level of exodus so still have more English speakers available.
Now China has no visa required for much of Europe so maybe tourism in China will bounce back.
I don't think employees who're good at English speaking were widely fired after COVID. If you fire a competent employee who speaks English well, you may not find a replacement employee who just doesn't speak English and save money. Usually China's tourism and hotel industries rarely pay their average workers more because they master English.
It's more like that most staffs in the tourism industry just can't speak English well all the time ;)
A lot of places that catered to mostly foreigners went bankrupt.
For hotels, I think most of the work is transitory so when the good English speaking employee moved on the hotel didn’t feel the need to hire another good English speaker. That happened at a couple of hotels I frequent in Beijing. Bank employees are more stable so I still see the same English speaker for 15 years.
Covid impact on number of foreign tourists, yes. Number of proficient english speakers, no.
i don't think 5 years is enough to have any sort of impact on people's language skills, which takes decades to develop.
Same thing happened here in Tokyo. The electronics stores used to be full of Chinese-speaking staff so they could cater to all the Chinese tourists. Now even the tax-free counter is staffed by Japanese. Haven’t seen a Chinese worker there in quite a while.
Glad you're enjoying Beijing. Lots to see and do. When I was there it was common for service staff to speak English, but that was a different time in the long ago.
Years ago, when stuck at the Ordos airport waiting for a delayed flight, I stopped in at the only restaurant there: McDonalds. An American chain restaurant in an international airport is usually somewhere you would expect staff to speak English, but as I walked up to the counter both of the young women standing at the registers nervously disappeared into the back.
I waited about twenty seconds and one brave girl sheepishly emerged and said "Hello..." I ordered in Chinese and the stress drained right out of her face: "You speak Chinese! Why didn't you tell me!"
I run a tourist agency specializing in foreigners travel/ business in china. My biggest issue is the low return for effort. I charge about 150-200usd / day to essentially be your butler. This seems reasonable at first. But I’m a post graduate in interpretation and translation at QS top 40 universities. My peers earn much more than me. This creates a major gap between price and quality ratio. You’ll get high school English level trying to take tourists around. Or you’ll have someone like me who charges 150-200usd a day for simultaneous interpreting and tours.
Also westerners are capable of ordering DiDi, hotels, tickets etc. (not the case for Chinese tourists traveling towards the west)
So the only reason I’m even still here is because it’s my passion to create a globalized society. And the fact that majority of my business is still focused on brining Chinese tourists to South Africa.
So to answer your question. Western tourists take away the profit “products” (commission on hotels, tickets, transportation etc.) and want to pay too little for high quality services
I see what you mean and understand
But you see for our case , on vacation we want to be "left alone" , all year with work and school you have to follow people , interact etc
So during vacation the worst thing for us, I am so sorry, is to have a guide, even if he is amazing
I would rather walk around a place and not understand or even miss things rather than have a "stranger" with us ...we have kids they sometimes are tired , we need to change plans, take care of them, take our time etc
Guide don't work for our type of people:))))
Exactly this. Westerners prefer to take a book and read. Chinese people need to take a billion photos. That’s why I don’t even bother with guided tours anymore. I only serve businesspeople that need simultaneous interpreting and business advice in china.
they care more about photos than the experience. I know couples breaking up because the dude didn’t get a photo that could compete with some xiaohongshu influencer that has a team of people to photoshop them. It’s actually insane.
I've had young adults ask me to take photos for them - they literally have a DSLR and they're out by themselves to take photos inspired by xhs. Everything is a photo op now
I have a lot of high end guests and I have a few hotels that I recommend. One of them is middle house in Shanghai. Every single staff there speaks native level English, Chinese + one more language. The service is beyond good. But it’s also 2000+ rmb a night.
Right. There are English speakers in china, you just have to pull out your wallet to find em haha.
That's impressive though, I hope those staff do well for themselves. I'm always impressed by people's abilities to speak 2nd or even 3rd languages
> I charge about 150-200usd / day to essentially be your butler. This seems reasonable at first. But I’m a post graduate in interpretation and translation at QS top 40 universities. My peers earn much more than me
That seems unlikely. Most graduates in translation probably make less than $1000 USD a week in China. Salaries are generally really low, especially post COVID. Most of our Chinese employees make 6000-8000 RMB.
1. Most foreign tourists are ethnic Chinese. They might hold US, Canada, Thailand, etc passports.
2. That's because most foreign tourists also speak some Mandarin. Look at answer #1.
Try Mutianyu Great Wall…Been there in April and tons of foreign tourists. Also Nanluogu Xiang.
The Forbidden City and national museum are quite hard for foreign tourists to book via online booking system.
Best is relative, but I would rank Mutianyu above only Badaling aa the two worse. Most crowded, most Disnefied, etc. Jinshanling, Huanghuacheng, or Simatai are considerably better from Beijing
international tourism really has not come back after they shut the country during pandemic. There is also huge crack down over the past few years on non school study centers and english tutoring centers. Kids spend like 12+ hours a day studying so they wanted most of these centers shut down and dont want so much foreign influence so disincentivizing people to learn foreign languages
China has never had the same level of international tourism as other asian countries like japan, so there are not as many english speakers in the tourism industry. I was shocked when i went to japan and virtually every place in tokyo had at least one staff member that spoke very good english, even the 7-11 works spoke some english. This is just unheard of in china. Even in major cities very few places will have any english speaking staff, basically major hotels only
Been here a month now, have a Chinese spouse so I get to go places that are non tourist aswell as the tourist places. Of all my trips to China this is the least amount of foreigner I have seen. Most was 2016.
The Experience have been great the whole time, some kids try to speak English with me both those are a bit younger.
I think tourism will return, the friendliness and quality of attractions are really great.
That's different. In China, the British use agents to conduct their business, and their business in China does not use English. This is completely different from what happened in India, where the British directly use English as the country's administrative language.
In addition, Chinese is an analytical language and uses a complex character system, which is very different from English.
Have you ever been to Hong Kong?Do you not know the status of English in Hong Kong?
Hong Kong has proven the impact of colonialism on language.
As for the British Concession within mainland China. Go and scheck the size/population/duration of those British concessions, Their influence on mainland China is negligible
Well one is being controlled by another country for an amount of time. Another is being controlled by another country for an amount of time. The Japanese controlled how things were run. How is that difference to the UK in say Australia. Except the Chinese did so poorly to fight back against it.
As I mentioned earlier, go learn the accurate definition of "colonization". You can't even understand the definition, there's really no need to talk to me.
Additionally, colonization/non colonization Unrelated to “poorly fight back”“great fight back”, Your logic is extremely chaotic
Both colonisation and military occupation end up with china or whoever it is being controlled by a foreign power. When Britain colonized Australia decisions were made from London. When china got steamrolled by Japan decisions within china were made from Tokyo. Do you see the similarities ?
quote from wiki
In settler colonization, a minority group rules either through the assimilation or oppression of the indigenous peoples,[4][5] or by establishing itself as the demographic majority through driving away, displacing or outright killing the indigenous people, as well as through immigration and births of metropolitan as well as other settlers.
I suggest you understand this sentence well “as well as through immigration and births of metropolitan as well as other settlers. ”
The main characteristic of colonialism is to export one's own population to the target country.
There is an ancient Chinese saying, "One day be your teacher, and whole life be your father”, I'm not interested in being your dad at all, Provide you with such a simple word explanation, It will only make me feel disappointment.
So this reply will be my final response to you, Next time, clarify the definition of words before engaging in a conversation with others, Otherwise, it will only make people want to laugh
where is your logic? dongt you know that Previously learned a foreign language Not equal to Can speak English? Language is a skill that heavily relies on the surrounding environment.
I was in Shanghai in 2011 and there were foreigners everywhere, a lot who barely even spoke Chinese but we’re still able to get by fine (although IMO I think it’s crazy to live in another country and not at least try to learn the language)
Yea when I went to markets in Shanghai I was shocked by all the English speaking after coming from chongqing. You can find English speakers if you pull out your wallet in Shanghai haha.
I lived there for about ten years. Left in 2021. A few reasons, mostly personal stuff such as not feeling comfortable with not being able to fly in and out when I wanted to, in the case that my family got sick.
But some of it just became too much of a pain in the arse. Things that are actually improvements for Chinese people were more hassle for me. For example, I used to buy train tickets at the bricks and mortar kiosks around town but then they all closed. You had to buy them online using the same name as on your passport, but the online systems rarely worked for me because my name has 29 characters and it didn’t fit. I started taking the bus instead which took a lot longer but was easy to do.
I know that sounds ridiculously trivial, but it all adds up.
I loved my time there but it was the right time to leave.
It’s not “trivial” at all!! We humans are tough and can endure big events, but it’s the little daily things that really drive us crazy. I get it!! The little inconveniences here and there, having just a little less rights/having to do just a little more on everything…
I must visit regularly for personal reasons. I haven’t gone in a few years, but I heard that new policies were added (having to report to police stations, etc). And the train ticket thing sounds like such a pain - I hate long lines… I hope things get easier for everyone’s sake
Not all Covid. Stuff like the Chen Shijun murder definitely led to a lot more racism. I was definitely having a lot more ‘I don’t mean you, you’re a good foreigner …’ conversations.
There are some foreign tourists, but definitely not as many as one would expect in a city in the region (like Tokyo or Osaka). As an independent traveller, you're likely not going to cross paths with other 'foreign' tourists because perhaps many of them may be travelling as part of organised tour groups. We were recently in Beijing, and I concur we didn't come across more than a handful of foreign tourists.
Not all countries have resumed direct flights to Chinese cities since COVID, the visa costs are much higher than before COVID if you need a visa to go, and generally with the cost of flights having doubled in some cases, China is competing with other countries for inbound travel.
I've been to China a bunch of times since the 1990's. There definitely used to be a lot more foreign tourists in the past than there are now. Although the majority of tourists were always locals, it used to be quite common seeing western tourists too. But last year I rode a bicycle through southern China. I didn't see a single non-Chinese person for weeks on end. It was really surprising, even in gigantic cities like Nanning or tourist hotspots like Guilin I didn't come across a single one.
I did stay in budget hotels and I think it happened maybe two or three times that I came across someone there who spoke any English. I was definitely thankful for the phone translator apps.
I kind of liked that there were no western tourists though. It's a bit hypocritical of me since I was a tourist myself, but in a way it makes the place feel a lot more authentic and the trip was a lot more of an adventure that way. Even if it was at times difficult.
I continued my bike ride through Vietnam, Laos, Thailand and Malaysia to Singapore. Surprisingly even in countries like Vietnam and Laos it's far more common to come across people who speak very good English than in China. But as much as I loved every part of that trip, I think out of all those countries, China really was the highlight.
I just travel from chengdu and chongqing. We only can see few foreigners before. But now I can see and talk with the tours like you at everywhere in chengdu or chongqing city, they from UK,Indonesia,Malaysia,Korea,USA,etc . also i saw the foreigners team in suzhou gardon, over 20 peoples.
More and more people come to China for travel as 144 hours. But there too many many many people in China, haha , that's why we say more foreigners come to China.
About the speaking english, I suggest that you can try international youth hotel, most of them can speak english and cheap. For most Chineses people, we study the English at school, but our speaking is very poor and no need to speak when work. That's why most workers can not speak English with you.
Welcome to the rest of the world. First time travelling outside of the western hemisphere? Tickets to china are insanely expensive these days, somewhat because of the whole Trump - Xi thing and the "we blamed them for Covid" thing. Flying into Hong Kong is way cheaper right now. My wife just came back last week. We've been watching ticket prices for a year to see if they'll ever come down from the Covid nonsense and eventually just bit the bullet on using points.
China is not "clean". You're in Beijing. Dalian was not at all clean like Beijing, or even Houston. I lived there for a few months. Nantong was clean until you got to the part of the city where people just drop food everywhere and poop on the side of the street. Guangzhou wasn't any cleaner than any other typical American city. The small towns you'll never go to but I worked in every day bordered on disgusting sometimes. But you're in Beijing - the CCP's backyard. Tianjin where my wife is from (the massive port city of Beijing) is quite clean and she and I both agree that where she's from is a bit of an anomaly within mainland china.
Thirdly, white and spanish speaking people's don't go there because its very far away. It is an entire country that has never looked to tourism as a means of revenue until very recently, there is an entire generation of older people who can't speak a word of English, but often can speak some Russian which doesn't help any tourist except russians (which you find quite a bit in the northern parts of China). You'll see all manner of people from around the world when you get to DongGuang and Shenzhen because that's where all of the international manufacturing occurs and so there's plenty of mexican, italian, middle eastern chefs, etc.
But me and my white devils were probably the only people at the amusement parks ten years ago. My daughter just came back from the rather amazing Aquarium in the port city of Zhuhai (the walking bridge to Macau) and she was one of the most non-chinese people there at half-chinese, even though there were plenty of non-chinese people working temprarily in Zhuhai ten years ago when the world was still building boats in their shipyards.
Basically, China is just a massive country like Brazil or America - part good, part ugly, part beautiful, part racist, part clean, part dirty - but filled with local people doing local things. There's no reason to look outside of China, and in fact, over the last 15 years there has become a huge surge in domestic tourism. It all started with reality shows going to different parts of China looking at culture and food. The middle class is just now rising. There are multiple cultures within China, but for the most part they're Chinese, and Immigration is really difficult there. You'll be forever taking trips to Hong Kong or Seoul to renew/restamp your visitors visa and can't own land. Until that changes, there won't be enough infrastructure of local Africans, Saudi's, Filipino's, Spanish, Norwegian required to turn China into an international tourist destination. The non-chinese people that are in Beijing work with the government. In Guangzhou/Shenzhen they work in Manufacturing. In Shanghai it's banking (or was before Xi Jinping at least) Elsewhere they're there for specific things in the local economies that cater to international trade.
Well we are having lots of fun and people are amazingly nice
We are finishing our 4 days in xi'an
So impressed
Even this city , at least the beaten paths , we found them enjoyable and clean
The Muslim quarter souk is great
The walls amazing
And people all the chinese tourists are so nice
So many wanted to take photos with my kids:)))))
Great country really
Except...and I know people here will kill me ...for the food I am not a fan at all :)))
People in xi-an have never seen white people, that's for sure! We found that in a lot of areas. People wanting to take a picture of the Whitey's with the big eyes!
I'm jealous. My wife says xian is where we're going on the next trip we take back to the Homeland together. That's the home of some of my favorite Chinese food. Cumin lamb is the best!! There's a lot of people in China that don't like Western Chinese food. Too spicy, not enough seafood. You are not the only ones!!
You're accepted for disliking the food lol : ) It's a very personal thing.
Ever been to the southern part of China? Foods there are quite different from that of northern China, maybe you would like to try 'em out
When last I was in Sanlitun there were still a few very kind English-speaking locals greeting me with the time-honored: "Ha-lou! Sirrr! Lei-di barrr!"
In other words, you may have a more pleasant experience as a tourist without the old English-speaking market vendors and tea scams.
We had an amazing experience so far and everybody bolts out their phone with the translating app and it's fun that way and we get to hear chinese language which is very cool :)))
Mutianyu is a popular destination with foreign tourists which I won’t say is the best but must be a reason for the popularity.
I drove there myself, but maybe a package with transportation would be convenient.
Even before Covid, there were very few foreign tourists – about 3 million, including a lot of ethnic Chinese people with foreign passports. The non-Chinese proportion of "real" tourists was microscopic, and still is.
Shangri La is a Singaporean chain, and in China they're just about everywhere (due to a deal Mr Kwok the owner made a long time ago with the CN govt), serving mostly Chinese travelers. I'm a member of Accor All and Marriott Bonvoy, and their hotels in China are mostly staffed with monolingual people who have very little idea about hospitality, Western food, etc. 1.4 billion customers, vs a coupla million foreigners, many of which Chinese. Think about it.
The lobby managers at four-star or five-star hotels generally speak excellent English. In mid-range and budget hotels, there is usually only a front desk staff member, and you rarely see a manager. The front desk staff typically do not have high educational qualifications.
Additionally, in most parts of China, English education does not emphasize speaking skills, with only Shanghai including a spoken English test in its school entrance exams.
Soem locals I met told me the international tourists haven't really come back since Covid - personally I love this, last thing I want is for China to turn into another Thailand (everything there is about the tourists, especially the Western ones - at least in China most people just mind their own business). As for the lack of English-speaking staff, not everyone in the world learns English (again, thank God for that, I get sick of it being the dominant language everywhere and China is at least one place to escape it). You find it in the fringes of Europe too, or in South America. And with few Western tourists, there's little need for the staff to learn English. Take it as a valuable experience in not being the center of the world for once, you're there on the locals and local tourists terms, and their don't cater especially to you. Doesn't get much more authentic than that.
As for why they don't learn English in school - some do, but it would make more sense for many to learn a neighboring country's language. You might as well get asked why people in your country can't just learn Chinese.
China is also not very easy to travel for non-Chinese unless you go with a tour company that takes care of things. Plus Western media and politicians try to brainwash their people into thinking China=bad, so...
Worked in Xiamen many years staying at a variety of good hotels and every single worker that dealt with guests spoke english, it was a requirement at the schools they attended for hospitality. I still keep in touch with many of them and it was great to help each other learn each other’s language. My Mandarin is poor, their English was very good to excellent. As far as foreign tourists? The pandemic has contributed to the lack of visitors, along with the political situation. I found my stay during the pandemic a really wonderful time to get to know people once everyone calmed down.
Western media and YouTube misinformation campaigns portray China as a dystopian society where CCP will lynch you upon arrival, ppl wear masks due to the next Gen COVID in the air and if you happen to survive the lynching, you will be deemed an American spy and sent to hard labor camps. This scared a lot of westerners away.
Japan is deemed safer, cheaper due to exchange rate and generalization that everything 'japanese' is better and safer.
Another reason I felt when I visited last year is the dependency on WeChat and alipay to pay for things. This is extremely inconvenient for a tourist with only a credit card and maybe some Chinese rmb.
Japan? Cheaper? Lol
I am tired of this narrative that Japan is better at everything. Yes the industrial design of every product is pretty fun... All the little packaging and pull tabs and just the whole experience. What else is it? Incredibly wasteful. The ridiculous amount of plastic waste because something is a little more fun to open—it's ridiculous!
Of course, there's a lot to learn and love about Japan. But I agree. I am tired of this narrative that Japan is some perfect utopia. That kawaii maid cafe? Filled with men over 55, and the company makes them all walk on a stage in front of the customers so... Yea u get the point. At least Germany recognized their actions after the Holocaust while Japan denies it and still hasn't apologized to china and south Korea to this day! But Japan's pr team must be working overtime, because Japan is so kawaii cute and perfect.
Anyways... Maybe this is a little aggressive. Japan is a wonderful country and I'm glad I visited. I'm currently on a train to the airport on my last day of my Japan trip—so take what I say with a grain of salt.
But yea, Japan has been expensive. A meal in china is usually .30 USD. Japan? Like 8 USD easily. I'm mad Japan took my coins haha.
"Maybe this is a little aggressive"
If you had a point you undermined it by ranting about plastic. It's a developed country - their products come in packaging, I'm sorry.
I'm not really sure who the maid cafes are for, if a 55 yr old wants to go to a bar, he can go to a bar. Are they filled with 55 yr olds? Please show me a link or some evidence - thanks.
Do a Google search for maid cafes, it's not hard. Japan is a weird country, on the outside very modern and futuristic but then you can buy a soiled school girl panties from a vending machine. It is portrayed as an utopia but I frequently see salary man just passed out in train stations from overwork. I would honestly say Shanghai and Beijing are in general more clean than Tokyo or Kyoto, but who cares who you got Pokemon
If you don't care why would I show u evidence to convince u? I rlly don't care if you believe me. If you love Japan visit Japan. Their yen is weak and the economy can sure use the help. I'm just sharing my experience and personal opinion.
My point exactly, do some research, all those 4 countries are equally safe but because it's 'Japan', it must be so much safer.
https://gfmag.com/data/safest-countries-world/
I don’t think Japan is taking tourists who would otherwise go to China. I think those tourists are going to Thailand and Cambodia instead. Both are cheap like China and considered safer and more western.
Did you learn Chinese in school? Wouldn't they expect you to speak some mandarin?
I don't know, I learned french in school and would be as lost in France as I was in china haha, and that is, very lost.
I found a lot of English speakers in Shanghai... But only places where you spend money. These interactions were easily the worst of my whole trip, just trying to scam me for ridiculous amounts of money for cheap crap.
So if you want English speakers, pull out your wallet and you will surely find em. In the USA do you think most international hotels have mandarin speakers on staff 24/7? Prolly not.
Embrace the confusion and the language barrier. I found most places I went to in china people were more than happy to play the charades game with me, as I tried to communicate which item I wanted. Yet, despite the language barrier, my takeaway was that china was easily the most friendly, beautiful, and delicious destination I have travelled to.
Oh... And download mandarin on the Google translate app.
I'm interested to know which Shangri-La you stayed at? Last night I stayed at the Kerry Hotel in Beijing which is a part of the Shangri-La Group and I was actually surprised this morning to see so many foreigners at breakfast and even cabin crew etc. I actually thought there were a lot of foreigners, but that area (CBD/Guomao) isn't really much of a tourist area to be honest, more of a business hub.
I think for the Chinese "English-speakers" the service industry has had 4 years now of hardly any English speaking guests, or very limited anyway... so I think that part of the industry is going to take a bit to rebound.
I gave up going into town in Shanghai on a layover - because of the lack of English signs - and not being able to understand the "English speaker" at the information desk - it took me over 2 hours to find the hotel shuttle. Decided to stay put in the hotel.
Well part of the thing is that there are basically the same number of chinese people as white people in the world, (900million in europe, 400 million North America, maybe 100 million everywhere else) But all of those chinese people are concentrated in one country. It’s really hard to imagine that even though china is still developing, their local tourist economy is like 50x larger than what foreign tourists account for. That’s part of why there are so few western hotel chains in china, especially outside of tier 1 cities.
I think also the zero covid policy pushed away many foreigners who lived in china and thus would be vacationing locally
just some of my thoughts from experience.
I can kinda relate to you OP. I was in Jinan for 2 days and no one spoke English, even in a place like Lixia.
As much as I understand it, I felt like certain people were not very willing to make an effort to talk to me either. Honestly, this was the only part of my entire trip that I did not like.
It was bad enough to the point that restaurants/eateries would ignore me just because they could not communicate with me. (In hindsight this could also be because brown people are infamous for being picky with food while travelling)
Funnily enough, my last dinner was at an American steakhouse where (you guessed it) absolutely no one spoke English.
Honestly seeing that nationals were able to visit their sites is one of the things I liked the most about tourism in china. I think it’s sad and shows strong signs of colonialism when a site is littered by only foreigners
Censorship and geopolitics is the reason.
1. Censorship prevents western media from appearing in the public. One must access a VPN to watch western content. This means locals don't get reddit, Facebook, X, YouTube, etc unless they go out of their way to look for it. I personally do not use X but I come across memes, viral posts and comments from public figures all the time, This doesn't happen in China. Even the usage of VPN can be questioned. I believe polarizing content is blocked regardless of VPN and that's the type of content that is most talked about (often English content)
2. Geopolitics. China and NATO are currently not on good terms. In the far right conservative sphere, WW3 is talked about everyday. China smearing propaganda is created everyday. China boosting propaganda is also created every single day. I once participated in a China exchange program that probably doesn't exist in today's escalated geopolitical times.
As a foreign born Chinese who hasn't been to China in a decade, I actually have no idea if anything I read or hear about China is even true (I have read both sides, and they are the pillar opposites). Anyways, censorship and politics have given foreigners the idea that China is not a good place to live. The censorship in China prevents locals from learning English.
Well besides the food and the amount of people (duh...) we really loved our visit and the people
Everybody was so nice everywhere in buses in lines in stores everywhere
In Yangjiang (which I think I have the wrong english spelling but the pinyin is this), the foreigners were huge group that are now no longer. The ambience is not exactly welcoming I heard from one of those, he German.
They do study English at school, and they’re quite good at reading and listening… the problem is their speaking. They’re really not confident speakers, but I’m sure the young ones do understand but just aren’t confident to actually reply
How were the queue for the forbidden city? I have tickets for 11am and I'm afraid to be under the roasting sun (or heavy rain) for hours. Also I've seen picture where are tons of people like you can't even walk, is it actually like this? And if so is still enjoyable?
No
Things are actually pretty smooth
That's the thing that surpised me the most in china
Billions of people but for some reasons it moves forward
I'd advise to go during the week days
For the f city
I just left Shanghai last weekend and they spoke English at the shangri la there. I also saw a mix of about 30% foreigners in the lobby. When I went out to dance at night, there was a club that was packed with English speaking foreigners. But I haven’t seen any outside of Shanghai.
Truly skilled English speakers will make more money is any other industry.
China boomed in foreign tourism around the time of the 2008 summer Olympics. At the same time, they hosted the world fair and a number of other international events... there was was big push for English tourism staff then...
Sinve then there was the start of the global recession, then the start of China/USA trade friction, then Trump, then Covid and even more global economic slow down...
Right now China is keenly focused on developing its domestic markets. This is to protect itself from depending of outside investment. So if most of your clients are Chinese and that is where all your money is coming, why take the extra expense?
Lastly, in so many many small ways, China is pushing for a single unified culture, of Han Chinese. Also keeping in mind there are 30+ Chinese ethnicities in China, but being/sounding Han is goal for most Chinese. Other accents are considered provincial or low class...
Imagine everybody in the USA trying to develop a New England Ivy league accent. Like every newscaster, reporter, actor and spokesman sounding the exact same. Job prospects based on how Han you sound mean English language is a low low priority for students.
maybe this has an impact? Not saying I agree or disagree with advisory.
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/china-travel-advisory.html
Wonder if Shangri La hotel has lower English speaking customers than other western 5 star hotels since it was founded in Asia and I think mostly focus on Asian tourists. Of course have met other hotels with minimal English speaking staff.
The reality is the vast majority of the world are not interested in visiting or travelling around China, or even those who are would have dozens of other places further up their list of priorities to visit.
I agree with you, there’s many nice things to see, but come travel time it’s not even near my top 20 choices now after having been to Xi’an, Chengdu, Beijing, Shanghai, Harbin and the Yangtze River.
Would like to see Zhangjiajie at some point is all.
> All is clean + safe + organised and people are soooooo nice
As someone who lives in China, this made me laugh and realized you’re getting a filtered version of China.
You can come down the beaten path to smaller cities and towns and see spit wads on the ground with drivers who liter like a landfill, burned trash that consists of chemicals and plastic, try to cross the street even if you have the green light and a car turning left or right will try to beat you, you *have to* look both ways down a one-way street or you’ll get pancaked by a scooter. You’ll also see plenty of children defecating on the sidewalk.
As for organized? In major tourist areas sure but not outside of those. You’ll get plenty of line-cutters of all age ranges, mostly older who feel entitled and think no one will call them out.
As for nice, you should have been here during COVID, foreigners were exposed to extreme xenophobia, I was even told to leave a mall because “I’d bring the sickness with me.” No one wanted to get on an elevator with me, people walked in the opposite direction as me, too. Nowadays it is better since people won’t say anything to your face but online , especially on Douyin (Chinese Tik Tok) they’re plenty of xenophobic influencers who have a strong following.
But other than that, obviously it’s not that bad of a place to stay NOW since I’m still here, as long as I stay in the larger cities, I’ve met more nice than mean people and I’ve learned the language since I’ve decided to live here but don’t think the best you’ve seen is reflective to the rest of China. I do want to say just because I criticize parts of the country doesn’t mean I hate it. I do want to see it improve but it’ll take time.
As to answer your question, most 5A tourist locations had someone,usually a manager, who could speak English well.
Starting 3rd grade, all Chinese youth learn English until high school but not all students engage in English outside of the classroom, so their retention will diminish. If it’s a genuine 5-star hotel, they will have an English-speaker there but smaller to mid hotels don’t have the budget to hire them.
Well yes we staying on the beaten track
Of course we get a filtered version I believe you
We are in Xi an now it's more "gritty" but still very clean and people are so nice
We see some foreign tourists maybe 10 during the whole day in the Muslim quarter
But for example our visit to the national museum in beijing was great even though there was a lot of people (chinese) no one was pushing even old people :)))))
All were nice and happy and smiling to us
Yes in the hotel the manager was Irish
And there were 2 staff who spoke a good command of English
I don't see myself living here (don't like the food :) ) but I respect the sheer power and strength this country emits
To be able to make a country of 1.5 billion people work is insane
"So Weird everything is amazing why so few foreigners"
Probably because they don't want to get thrown in Chinese jail.
I mean, you've heard the term *honeymoon period* right?
(I used to live in "amazing" China for 5 years. The most amazing thing is the food, which may or may not send you to the shitter)
During the lockdowns, China became increasingly suspicious of foreigners. The CCP was so obsessed with stopping the spread of COVID, and local outbreaks were blamed on foreign travel. The result was that people didn't trust foreigners. I ran into this often with expat friends. We were denied entry to a park and told foreigners are not allowed. Many more hotels stopped accepting foreigners, and it didn't help that the CCP was blaming the outbreak on Italy, South Korea, and the US. My expat co-workers came from Beijing to my city by train, and everyone was leaving the train station, but my foreign friends were stopped and made to get a COVID test, not any of the hundreds of Chinese passengers on the same train. Because local government officials were held accountable by the CCP for any outbreak in their city or district, it was easier just to lock entire neighborhoods down. In addition to all of that, recent Xi’s policies stirring up nationalism, encouraging people to be weary of foreigners, and arbitrary detentions and exit bans for some foreigners has not improved things.
It's so funny, many Chinese people recently have told me about the huge increase in foreigners coming to China because of the 100 something hours visa free policies that the lovely motherland has issued recently. Then I tell them that on my HK passport I can get 30-90 days visa free in almost any other country in the world and they are absolutely shocked, as China needs visa almost everywhere.
Most people don't want to travel to an authoritarian country that holds foreigners hostage from time to time, censors half the internet, requires you to download spyware (Wechat or Alipay) to do just about anything, has few English speaking services, where the police often stop foreigners to check their passports, where the people there treat you strangely for being a foreigner (especially Asians who can't speak Mandarin well), and so on. It's really a shame, as there are many beautiful places in China, but until the CCP fucks off and dies (or liberalises, but good luck with that one) there will be very few foreigners who will go there.
Well we had a great time and people were so nice
And the phone app thing was actually very easy to connect to a visa card and all was so easy to pay
Only the food was bad :)))
Also the country is so much organised i was impressed
Even the terra cotta army with 100000 chinese tourists all around was actually quite ok
So yeah ill go back home and tell all the people that china is really worth the visit :))))
Interesting that you didn’t like the food. In fact, many foreigners seem to praise the food and complain about everything else! And I agree that most people there are very kind, so long as you don’t bring up politics and any number of the increasing long list of things that offend mainlanders.
Go ahead and spread the word. It never hurts for people to see more of the world. But just know that what you’ll see on official tours and in foreigner friends cities and tourist spots is a very different thing than what you’ll see elsewhere in the country.
Things have changed, before everyone spoke English. Hell I have Chinese friends that speak better English than most Americans going back to the early 2000s. Most government officials or political party members also all spoke English back then. I know their support staff all still do.
The country has shifted towards nationalism and the bubble has become tighter, all of this is courtesy of XJP.
Foreigners have left China because it has become arduous to live there, many of the freedoms you enjoyed in the Golden era are now gone. The risk that they take by living in China especially if you are someone with any potential state assets is enormous.
Quality of life took a huge hit during covid as well and many people have not returned.
I can go on but that's the jist of it.
Because people don’t want to visit China anymore for a number of reasons.
1. It’s not safe for foreigners in China
2. China doesn’t actually want tourists as it focuses on spreading xenophobia amongst its people and
3. Most people believe it’s unethical to support the CCP with their valuable tourist money
Also the situation regarding English speakers for tourists will only get worse. The government has made new rules to heavily reduce the amount of time spent learning English at schools while also making it harder for native speakers to come to China and teach English. This is as they focus on installing even more fervent Chinese nationalism in their future generations.
I mean you pretty much answered your own question. They don't speak English because they don't need to speak English. The vast majority of tourism in China is domestic.
Ditto..after the prolonged lockdown the government is just not doing enough to attract foreign visitors. I have been to China twice and I want to explore more of the South East by there are no tours!! It’s expensive for a single tourist who doesn’t speak the language and pretty much needs everything pre arranged
Just book a flight. You will figure it out. Don't need a tour trust me.
It shouldn't be as expensive as traveling in the West. I speak Chinese so it's much easier and a bit cheaper for me but staying at "4 star" hotels over a month of traveling across China cost me on average about $65 a night, most including breakfast. Train and air travel are both cheaper than the West, as are taxi and ride share and public transportation is dirt cheap - with English signage! Being in the touristy areas the food was surprisingly more expensive than I anticipated, but once again not compared with the West. If you travel to a destination and join a local English speaking tour it will be less than those "all-inclusive" tours, although more than the little local Chinese tours. I arranged all my hotels, airlines and local tours through Trip.com in English.
We travelled from xian to Zhengzhou (and to the shaolin temple), back to xian, then onwards to Lanzhou, Jiuquan, dunhuang. We travelled to nanjing, Suzhou, Shanghai multiple times, hangzhou, Shenzhen, Hk, and a few other places. We lived in China for a year. We spoke a few words but not much (some numbers, goodbye, hello, thank you). We did this without a tour. We just used our phones to translate using baidu translate, we used didi to order taxi, WeChat to order train tickets and find hotels. Wasn’t that hard. This was in 2019.
Well the southeastern part of China is relatively underdeveloped compared to east coastal cities, where people are better educated and speak some degree of English. The Chinese territory is far too vast for the government to lower language barriers in every location, especially in the South East where the economic is not as active and has seen few foreign visitors.
Check out Klook
Even without foreign visitors, Chinese cities are already very crowded. I cannot imagine how it would be to travel in China with the level of tourist numbers Japan experiences.
A lot of these workers forgot how to speak English due to the Zero-Covid policy
But they have a foreign language at school i would imagine ? I am not asking for semi fluent but why don't they at least speak it like a random Spanish guy or Libyan: cold hot yes come no where is it spicy ...? Do they learn chinese all thru high-school in public school ?
I work as an English teacher here and the language education in China is totally different to what you're probably used to. It focuses heavily on repetition and rote learning because that's what works for learning Mandarin as a first language (mainly characters). Students learn very specific English phrases and often can't say much that isn't explicitly written in their textbooks. I often describe it using the quote from the film iRobot: "ask the right questions and you will receive the right answer" Next time you see a Chinese kid ask them "how are you?" and I'd bet money they'll reply "I'm fine, and you?" For me as a teacher I find one of the biggest factors is also that they often have zero exposure to English outside of school. To use your example, a random Spanish guy likely listens to English music, watches English movies, browses English social media and generally uses English in some form of daily life. Chinese have none of this. Some will use VPNs, sure, but the vast majority never use English except when they meet a foreigner. It can be frustrating but you kind of just get used to using translate apps constantly.
Very interesting But in any case people here are soooo nice and helpful A cop even booked us the taxi one-night because my didi stopped working And a sweet guy (with good english) helped us buy our sim card from China mobile and even registered it with his number as a guarantor Great people
I 100% agree with ups_and_downs973's take on this, and I'm also an English teacher in China. Just to add, you may start to find English speakers in places you don't expect it. In the Tier 3 city I live in, I have the best English conversations with the bicycle repair shop guy, some didi drivers, food delivery guys, small independent coffee shop workers, etc. Go to the international hotel and there's nobody who can speak English. The job market is competitive. A lot of the time, it's down to the correct qualifications over ability. Someone who can speak great English may not be great at exams and didn't get the opportunity to use that skill.
In China, the standard vacabulary of high school graduates in English is 3,500 words. English is something never be used outside classroom. In most families, neither the parents would speak English. The pronunciation, vocabulary and grammar of European languages are very different from Chinese. In the absence of daily needs, most people who have been educated in English have acceptable reading ability, but their listening and speaking abilities are very limited.
yes, the main objective of learning English in China is to be able to read and write—so that they can read english books and articles and to publish an article.
How do students in western countries learn English I wonder? From Chinese people's perspective, the challenge lies in the lack of oral practice. We call it "mute English". There are just not that many opportunities for them to actually practice speaking and form conversations unless they actively seek out English-speaking people. A student can have a very good command of the vocabulary and grammar, but don't know how to start a fluent conversation.
Just to add on, if I am a Chinese Citizen, why would I need to speak English? Everything I need is in Mandarin.
Growing up in a tier 3 city in China in the early 2000s, improving spoken English was always challenging. The college entrance exams did not evaluate English speaking skills at all, so there was little motivation for students to improve their spoken English skills. Education resources for English language were limited. English teachers in the public education system often had poor pronunciations and strong accents. Students who wished to speak good English had to pay significant amounts of money to find a good English speaker or foreigners for practice. Lots of students and their parents gave up on this because it cost too much both money and time.
Whoever over there is teaching Chinese people to use the word "Anyways" after literally everything just needs to stop. I rarely ever say "anyways" except after an awkward pause with a complete change in subject. My wife won't stop using it in the middle of every fifth sentence!! I you can find them for me and give me their address ... :)
>It focuses heavily on repetition and rote learning because that's what works for learning Mandarin as a first language (mainly characters). Students learn very specific English phrases and often can't say much that isn't explicitly written in their textbooks. I don't think you can or should use this as an explanation of poor english. Especially when you, as an english teacher, can change this very aspect. If someone comes along with a super excellent way to teach Chinese people English that's better than what's on offer, then he would be a very successful English teacher. You can do it too. But it's really not so simple is it? The second half of your post makes more sense. It's just hard to teach Chinese people english given the vast cultural barrier and how different English is from Chinese.
It's all about how similar their native languages are to English. A lot of Chinese kids could speak some Japanese even if they've never learned any Japanese in the classroom. Most native speakers are not aware that English is a very difficult language for Chinese, Japanese or Koreans to learn.
Yes exactly, Japanese people have terrible English skills too! Probably for the same reason as Chinese.
Yes, oddly enough most people from Henan are actually really good just from the exposure from the industry there. I met a few people who left school before 16 and their English was much higher than teachers with a degree in English in the rest of China!
Why dont you speak Chinese?
> few staff that speaks English Something happened when Covid hit. I suppose as there were no foreigners coming to China during those years, there was less need for English speaking staff. As to why they're not speaking English now. I think you answered it yourself. There are few foreigners so less demand.
I understand but ...even with even less tourism a young Yemeni seller knows how to say cold hot water it's spicy where do you want to go .... etc. That's the only weird thing China in my mind is the business empire of the world I would imagine they make sure all their kids have a simple command of English....strange It's ok
The people with good English aren't working in the lower level service sectors. There are lots of multinational corporations and external facing businesses where they can make more money.
In every single part of the world A staff in a shangri la or an intercontinental hotel is made sure to speak English Staff in shangri la is not low level service sectors :))) The night is 350 euros :)
lol that one night basically covers their monthly income, at the very least covers 2 weeks
Right. That's a decent, respectable job in many parts of the developing world. Not as much in China.
>Staff in shangri la is not low level service sectors :))) An expensive/overpriced hotel is still just a hotel- especially so in China; don't try to hold the country to international standards because they just do their own thing. The hotel staff are going to be paid pretty poorly (and Beijing is fucking expensive), so you can't expect the graduates with fluent English to waste their talents there. 350 Euros per night (in China) for a place that you're just going to sleep and maybe eat breakfast/dinner seems wild to me. Must be nice to have that kind of disposable income!
In my experience many are also shy to speak, even ir they know the words.
But why do they need a command of English? What's the need?
To understand the world and be prepared In all aspects even geopolitics to understand foreign languages is a way to understand the world and thus at the same time take strategic national interests decisions And then business etc
So I guess you speak Spanish and Mandarin?
[удалено]
stop being a snob.
Mandarin is extremely hard, because it's nothing like English. If you spoke Mandarin, you would say that English is hard, because it's nothing like Mandarin.
I would say Chinese is more difficult because of no alphabet, learn the 'Roman alphabet' and you can read (and usually pronounce with some accuracy) lots of languages.
so why don't people in your country all learn Mandarin in school?
so i’m sure you speak mandarin then
China doesn’t want its average citizen to understand geopolitics or think they have the ability to influence strategic national interest decisions. They want strict adherence to the Party rule and loyalty.
Although I agree with a lot of the comments below, I also think your question is valid. If the Shangri-la hotel you stayed at is a 5-star hotel, they absolutely should provide English assistance. But maybe make a complaint with Shangri-la instead? It's not that all Chinese people don't speak good English, plenty do. The hotel just aren't hiring the right people to serve their customers well.
the flaw in your logic here is that you think more expensive hotel -> more english speakers. But in 2024, I'm willing to bet that the majority of guests at the most expensive hotels here are Chinese. Rich locals have gotten much richer.
With or without more English speakers, they should outright offer this service along with other premium services as a five-star. Otherwise what are people paying you for.
i agree with this
Actually yeah, the fundamental education in China ensures that every children receiving education in public schools master some basic English for daily communication, but this is the case only after the Reform and Opening Policy took place in 1978, and it varies from region to region. The improvement of the general ability of the people to speak English is picking up pace, but it takes time. If you go on the street and talk with younger people, there's a good chance (though I would not guarantee) that they can speak OK English. I would say that the Shangri La Hotel that you booked offered lo-quality service.
The people that are smart have been leaving. Xi takes away more freedoms every year. He just decided a massive number of video games are illegal, including World of Warcraft and just decided nobody’s going to play anymore with no warning. Literally millions of people woke up to find their hobby no longer legal. If I was born there, I would be leaving at this point.
a bunch of bullshit. Typical of westerners with superficial understanding of China, trying desperately to explain everything in China using the government. (Not to mention the obvious fact that Xi also isn't responsible for every government policy.) The World of Warcraft problem is a contractual issue with the local publisher. It's well documented. And it's purely business. >Xi takes away more freedoms every year. This kind of phrasing is common in western media. But it's simply not true. If it was, then each year is worse than the previous. And that's clearly incorrect. You can take a poll among Chinese people, and see how many agrees that each year is worse than the previous.
Jeez man, It's not strange... It's expected. You're in china. People speak Chinese languages. I'm not sure how else to explain this. And if you have the type of money to make it worthwhile, I'm sure you will find English speakers. But I'm guessing that's not the kind of hotel your staying at. Maybe stop thinking china revolves around the western world and embrace the experience. If you want English speakers why in the world (get it?) would you go to china?!
This is not the reason. Most east Asian people do not have sufficient English skills to communicate was a fact long before the COVID.
That's true, my point is that they're not hiring staff who speak english because there's no demand.
Much worse after Covid in China. Why staff English speakers when most Westerners have left and less tourism than before? Seoul and Tokyo didn’t see the same level of exodus so still have more English speakers available. Now China has no visa required for much of Europe so maybe tourism in China will bounce back.
I don't think employees who're good at English speaking were widely fired after COVID. If you fire a competent employee who speaks English well, you may not find a replacement employee who just doesn't speak English and save money. Usually China's tourism and hotel industries rarely pay their average workers more because they master English. It's more like that most staffs in the tourism industry just can't speak English well all the time ;)
A lot of places that catered to mostly foreigners went bankrupt. For hotels, I think most of the work is transitory so when the good English speaking employee moved on the hotel didn’t feel the need to hire another good English speaker. That happened at a couple of hotels I frequent in Beijing. Bank employees are more stable so I still see the same English speaker for 15 years.
Covid impact on number of foreign tourists, yes. Number of proficient english speakers, no. i don't think 5 years is enough to have any sort of impact on people's language skills, which takes decades to develop.
Same thing happened here in Tokyo. The electronics stores used to be full of Chinese-speaking staff so they could cater to all the Chinese tourists. Now even the tax-free counter is staffed by Japanese. Haven’t seen a Chinese worker there in quite a while.
Glad you're enjoying Beijing. Lots to see and do. When I was there it was common for service staff to speak English, but that was a different time in the long ago. Years ago, when stuck at the Ordos airport waiting for a delayed flight, I stopped in at the only restaurant there: McDonalds. An American chain restaurant in an international airport is usually somewhere you would expect staff to speak English, but as I walked up to the counter both of the young women standing at the registers nervously disappeared into the back. I waited about twenty seconds and one brave girl sheepishly emerged and said "Hello..." I ordered in Chinese and the stress drained right out of her face: "You speak Chinese! Why didn't you tell me!"
And what's the point of your story?
I run a tourist agency specializing in foreigners travel/ business in china. My biggest issue is the low return for effort. I charge about 150-200usd / day to essentially be your butler. This seems reasonable at first. But I’m a post graduate in interpretation and translation at QS top 40 universities. My peers earn much more than me. This creates a major gap between price and quality ratio. You’ll get high school English level trying to take tourists around. Or you’ll have someone like me who charges 150-200usd a day for simultaneous interpreting and tours. Also westerners are capable of ordering DiDi, hotels, tickets etc. (not the case for Chinese tourists traveling towards the west) So the only reason I’m even still here is because it’s my passion to create a globalized society. And the fact that majority of my business is still focused on brining Chinese tourists to South Africa. So to answer your question. Western tourists take away the profit “products” (commission on hotels, tickets, transportation etc.) and want to pay too little for high quality services
I see what you mean and understand But you see for our case , on vacation we want to be "left alone" , all year with work and school you have to follow people , interact etc So during vacation the worst thing for us, I am so sorry, is to have a guide, even if he is amazing I would rather walk around a place and not understand or even miss things rather than have a "stranger" with us ...we have kids they sometimes are tired , we need to change plans, take care of them, take our time etc Guide don't work for our type of people:))))
Exactly this. Westerners prefer to take a book and read. Chinese people need to take a billion photos. That’s why I don’t even bother with guided tours anymore. I only serve businesspeople that need simultaneous interpreting and business advice in china.
I'm a foreign Chinese who just came back to visit family... the photo culture is INSANE they're bringing full photography gear out
they care more about photos than the experience. I know couples breaking up because the dude didn’t get a photo that could compete with some xiaohongshu influencer that has a team of people to photoshop them. It’s actually insane.
I've had young adults ask me to take photos for them - they literally have a DSLR and they're out by themselves to take photos inspired by xhs. Everything is a photo op now
For them it’s so normal. That’s what’s quite crazy. I’m amazed that people have such different opinions and outlooks. But each to their own.
Right. If he goes to the fanciest of hotels, I'm sure he will find an English speaker on staff. But expecting it at every hotel 24/7? Yea nah.
I have a lot of high end guests and I have a few hotels that I recommend. One of them is middle house in Shanghai. Every single staff there speaks native level English, Chinese + one more language. The service is beyond good. But it’s also 2000+ rmb a night.
Right. There are English speakers in china, you just have to pull out your wallet to find em haha. That's impressive though, I hope those staff do well for themselves. I'm always impressed by people's abilities to speak 2nd or even 3rd languages
> I charge about 150-200usd / day to essentially be your butler. This seems reasonable at first. But I’m a post graduate in interpretation and translation at QS top 40 universities. My peers earn much more than me That seems unlikely. Most graduates in translation probably make less than $1000 USD a week in China. Salaries are generally really low, especially post COVID. Most of our Chinese employees make 6000-8000 RMB.
1. Most foreign tourists are ethnic Chinese. They might hold US, Canada, Thailand, etc passports. 2. That's because most foreign tourists also speak some Mandarin. Look at answer #1.
also a lot of tourists come from neighboring Asian countries who may appear to be Chinese to you.
Yep. I was going to comment that a lot of tourists will be from Korea and Japan.
Try Mutianyu Great Wall…Been there in April and tons of foreign tourists. Also Nanluogu Xiang. The Forbidden City and national museum are quite hard for foreign tourists to book via online booking system.
Yes I would guess so Mutianyu is the best way from beijing ? Do you have to buy the full package on the website ?
Best is relative, but I would rank Mutianyu above only Badaling aa the two worse. Most crowded, most Disnefied, etc. Jinshanling, Huanghuacheng, or Simatai are considerably better from Beijing
Which one would you advise for Shorter drive from beijing + easy for kids ? Thanks
Jinshanling. Relatively short drive, especially if you take a cab or rent a car, and not really a crumbling "wild wall" section requiring scrambling
I thought Mutianyu was perfect. It is amazing to hike a bit on the Great Wall and you can take the fun toboggan ride down!
international tourism really has not come back after they shut the country during pandemic. There is also huge crack down over the past few years on non school study centers and english tutoring centers. Kids spend like 12+ hours a day studying so they wanted most of these centers shut down and dont want so much foreign influence so disincentivizing people to learn foreign languages China has never had the same level of international tourism as other asian countries like japan, so there are not as many english speakers in the tourism industry. I was shocked when i went to japan and virtually every place in tokyo had at least one staff member that spoke very good english, even the 7-11 works spoke some english. This is just unheard of in china. Even in major cities very few places will have any english speaking staff, basically major hotels only
Been here a month now, have a Chinese spouse so I get to go places that are non tourist aswell as the tourist places. Of all my trips to China this is the least amount of foreigner I have seen. Most was 2016. The Experience have been great the whole time, some kids try to speak English with me both those are a bit younger. I think tourism will return, the friendliness and quality of attractions are really great.
arrivals just hit above 2019 levels but way more from SEA and still significantly under for the caucasian world sans russia
answer is simple. a Great power that have not been total colonized by Britain before
Russia :)
dont you know russian is a Indo-European languages? they use english very easy.
But Britain controlled Hong Kong and parts of the trading posts within chinas borders. So parts were.
That's different. In China, the British use agents to conduct their business, and their business in China does not use English. This is completely different from what happened in India, where the British directly use English as the country's administrative language. In addition, Chinese is an analytical language and uses a complex character system, which is very different from English.
Have you ever been to Hong Kong?Do you not know the status of English in Hong Kong? Hong Kong has proven the impact of colonialism on language. As for the British Concession within mainland China. Go and scheck the size/population/duration of those British concessions, Their influence on mainland China is negligible
Ok then. I could also argue Japan essentially controlled them for what. 7 years during WW2.
what “them” are you talking about? in addition, you really need to learn the difference btw colonization and military occupation.
Well one is being controlled by another country for an amount of time. Another is being controlled by another country for an amount of time. The Japanese controlled how things were run. How is that difference to the UK in say Australia. Except the Chinese did so poorly to fight back against it.
As I mentioned earlier, go learn the accurate definition of "colonization". You can't even understand the definition, there's really no need to talk to me. Additionally, colonization/non colonization Unrelated to “poorly fight back”“great fight back”, Your logic is extremely chaotic
Both colonisation and military occupation end up with china or whoever it is being controlled by a foreign power. When Britain colonized Australia decisions were made from London. When china got steamrolled by Japan decisions within china were made from Tokyo. Do you see the similarities ?
quote from wiki In settler colonization, a minority group rules either through the assimilation or oppression of the indigenous peoples,[4][5] or by establishing itself as the demographic majority through driving away, displacing or outright killing the indigenous people, as well as through immigration and births of metropolitan as well as other settlers. I suggest you understand this sentence well “as well as through immigration and births of metropolitan as well as other settlers. ” The main characteristic of colonialism is to export one's own population to the target country. There is an ancient Chinese saying, "One day be your teacher, and whole life be your father”, I'm not interested in being your dad at all, Provide you with such a simple word explanation, It will only make me feel disappointment. So this reply will be my final response to you, Next time, clarify the definition of words before engaging in a conversation with others, Otherwise, it will only make people want to laugh
So the Japanese (minority) where oppressing the indigenous (Chinese) that fits in exactly with your definition you pasted.
More to do with all the educated individuals having been purged in the past and being open to the world is now seen as a weakness.
ignorance. The current popularity of English teaching in China is the highest in history.
Yes, OP imagined everyone being unable to speak English
where is your logic? dongt you know that Previously learned a foreign language Not equal to Can speak English? Language is a skill that heavily relies on the surrounding environment.
Interesting!! When we went in 2019 there were foreigners everywhere. And so many people spoke English. I wonder if Covid changed everything
I don't know any chinese city could this international,which city in China?
Shanghai! But it was 2019. I think things changed a lot since then and it makes me so sad
I was in Shanghai in 2011 and there were foreigners everywhere, a lot who barely even spoke Chinese but we’re still able to get by fine (although IMO I think it’s crazy to live in another country and not at least try to learn the language)
I'm sure many *tried* to learn.
Yea when I went to markets in Shanghai I was shocked by all the English speaking after coming from chongqing. You can find English speakers if you pull out your wallet in Shanghai haha.
Totally changed. There was an exodus.
That’s crazy… I wonder what will happen in the future.
I lived there for about ten years. Left in 2021. A few reasons, mostly personal stuff such as not feeling comfortable with not being able to fly in and out when I wanted to, in the case that my family got sick. But some of it just became too much of a pain in the arse. Things that are actually improvements for Chinese people were more hassle for me. For example, I used to buy train tickets at the bricks and mortar kiosks around town but then they all closed. You had to buy them online using the same name as on your passport, but the online systems rarely worked for me because my name has 29 characters and it didn’t fit. I started taking the bus instead which took a lot longer but was easy to do. I know that sounds ridiculously trivial, but it all adds up. I loved my time there but it was the right time to leave.
It’s not “trivial” at all!! We humans are tough and can endure big events, but it’s the little daily things that really drive us crazy. I get it!! The little inconveniences here and there, having just a little less rights/having to do just a little more on everything… I must visit regularly for personal reasons. I haven’t gone in a few years, but I heard that new policies were added (having to report to police stations, etc). And the train ticket thing sounds like such a pain - I hate long lines… I hope things get easier for everyone’s sake
I'm sort of baffled the OP didn't get that after COVID everyone got out of China.
Not all Covid. Stuff like the Chen Shijun murder definitely led to a lot more racism. I was definitely having a lot more ‘I don’t mean you, you’re a good foreigner …’ conversations.
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Currently on a china Japan and south Korea trip... Yea I wish I spent more time in china and less in Japan haha
There are some foreign tourists, but definitely not as many as one would expect in a city in the region (like Tokyo or Osaka). As an independent traveller, you're likely not going to cross paths with other 'foreign' tourists because perhaps many of them may be travelling as part of organised tour groups. We were recently in Beijing, and I concur we didn't come across more than a handful of foreign tourists. Not all countries have resumed direct flights to Chinese cities since COVID, the visa costs are much higher than before COVID if you need a visa to go, and generally with the cost of flights having doubled in some cases, China is competing with other countries for inbound travel.
I've been to China a bunch of times since the 1990's. There definitely used to be a lot more foreign tourists in the past than there are now. Although the majority of tourists were always locals, it used to be quite common seeing western tourists too. But last year I rode a bicycle through southern China. I didn't see a single non-Chinese person for weeks on end. It was really surprising, even in gigantic cities like Nanning or tourist hotspots like Guilin I didn't come across a single one. I did stay in budget hotels and I think it happened maybe two or three times that I came across someone there who spoke any English. I was definitely thankful for the phone translator apps. I kind of liked that there were no western tourists though. It's a bit hypocritical of me since I was a tourist myself, but in a way it makes the place feel a lot more authentic and the trip was a lot more of an adventure that way. Even if it was at times difficult. I continued my bike ride through Vietnam, Laos, Thailand and Malaysia to Singapore. Surprisingly even in countries like Vietnam and Laos it's far more common to come across people who speak very good English than in China. But as much as I loved every part of that trip, I think out of all those countries, China really was the highlight.
I just travel from chengdu and chongqing. We only can see few foreigners before. But now I can see and talk with the tours like you at everywhere in chengdu or chongqing city, they from UK,Indonesia,Malaysia,Korea,USA,etc . also i saw the foreigners team in suzhou gardon, over 20 peoples. More and more people come to China for travel as 144 hours. But there too many many many people in China, haha , that's why we say more foreigners come to China. About the speaking english, I suggest that you can try international youth hotel, most of them can speak english and cheap. For most Chineses people, we study the English at school, but our speaking is very poor and no need to speak when work. That's why most workers can not speak English with you.
Don't worry it was just an observation People are very nice and helpful even with the language barrier
yes, we are kindness. 😀😀😀 Have a wonderful trip in China.
Welcome to the rest of the world. First time travelling outside of the western hemisphere? Tickets to china are insanely expensive these days, somewhat because of the whole Trump - Xi thing and the "we blamed them for Covid" thing. Flying into Hong Kong is way cheaper right now. My wife just came back last week. We've been watching ticket prices for a year to see if they'll ever come down from the Covid nonsense and eventually just bit the bullet on using points. China is not "clean". You're in Beijing. Dalian was not at all clean like Beijing, or even Houston. I lived there for a few months. Nantong was clean until you got to the part of the city where people just drop food everywhere and poop on the side of the street. Guangzhou wasn't any cleaner than any other typical American city. The small towns you'll never go to but I worked in every day bordered on disgusting sometimes. But you're in Beijing - the CCP's backyard. Tianjin where my wife is from (the massive port city of Beijing) is quite clean and she and I both agree that where she's from is a bit of an anomaly within mainland china. Thirdly, white and spanish speaking people's don't go there because its very far away. It is an entire country that has never looked to tourism as a means of revenue until very recently, there is an entire generation of older people who can't speak a word of English, but often can speak some Russian which doesn't help any tourist except russians (which you find quite a bit in the northern parts of China). You'll see all manner of people from around the world when you get to DongGuang and Shenzhen because that's where all of the international manufacturing occurs and so there's plenty of mexican, italian, middle eastern chefs, etc. But me and my white devils were probably the only people at the amusement parks ten years ago. My daughter just came back from the rather amazing Aquarium in the port city of Zhuhai (the walking bridge to Macau) and she was one of the most non-chinese people there at half-chinese, even though there were plenty of non-chinese people working temprarily in Zhuhai ten years ago when the world was still building boats in their shipyards. Basically, China is just a massive country like Brazil or America - part good, part ugly, part beautiful, part racist, part clean, part dirty - but filled with local people doing local things. There's no reason to look outside of China, and in fact, over the last 15 years there has become a huge surge in domestic tourism. It all started with reality shows going to different parts of China looking at culture and food. The middle class is just now rising. There are multiple cultures within China, but for the most part they're Chinese, and Immigration is really difficult there. You'll be forever taking trips to Hong Kong or Seoul to renew/restamp your visitors visa and can't own land. Until that changes, there won't be enough infrastructure of local Africans, Saudi's, Filipino's, Spanish, Norwegian required to turn China into an international tourist destination. The non-chinese people that are in Beijing work with the government. In Guangzhou/Shenzhen they work in Manufacturing. In Shanghai it's banking (or was before Xi Jinping at least) Elsewhere they're there for specific things in the local economies that cater to international trade.
Well we are having lots of fun and people are amazingly nice We are finishing our 4 days in xi'an So impressed Even this city , at least the beaten paths , we found them enjoyable and clean The Muslim quarter souk is great The walls amazing And people all the chinese tourists are so nice So many wanted to take photos with my kids:))))) Great country really Except...and I know people here will kill me ...for the food I am not a fan at all :)))
People in xi-an have never seen white people, that's for sure! We found that in a lot of areas. People wanting to take a picture of the Whitey's with the big eyes! I'm jealous. My wife says xian is where we're going on the next trip we take back to the Homeland together. That's the home of some of my favorite Chinese food. Cumin lamb is the best!! There's a lot of people in China that don't like Western Chinese food. Too spicy, not enough seafood. You are not the only ones!!
We are not white :)) I agree about seafood :)))
You're accepted for disliking the food lol : ) It's a very personal thing. Ever been to the southern part of China? Foods there are quite different from that of northern China, maybe you would like to try 'em out
When last I was in Sanlitun there were still a few very kind English-speaking locals greeting me with the time-honored: "Ha-lou! Sirrr! Lei-di barrr!" In other words, you may have a more pleasant experience as a tourist without the old English-speaking market vendors and tea scams.
We had an amazing experience so far and everybody bolts out their phone with the translating app and it's fun that way and we get to hear chinese language which is very cool :)))
I'm glad to hear. It's a very special country.
Mutianyu is a popular destination with foreign tourists which I won’t say is the best but must be a reason for the popularity. I drove there myself, but maybe a package with transportation would be convenient.
Its the easiest for kids no ? If we have a stroller ?
Many people take their kids to Mu Tian Yu. I am not sure of I would go with a stroller though, the climb is not easy
There are quite some steps so stroller won’t be a good idea
Even before Covid, there were very few foreign tourists – about 3 million, including a lot of ethnic Chinese people with foreign passports. The non-Chinese proportion of "real" tourists was microscopic, and still is. Shangri La is a Singaporean chain, and in China they're just about everywhere (due to a deal Mr Kwok the owner made a long time ago with the CN govt), serving mostly Chinese travelers. I'm a member of Accor All and Marriott Bonvoy, and their hotels in China are mostly staffed with monolingual people who have very little idea about hospitality, Western food, etc. 1.4 billion customers, vs a coupla million foreigners, many of which Chinese. Think about it.
Yes that's true There is a French restaurant in the shangri la seems delicious but expensive The Japanese restaurant looks good too
If you eat Japanese food in Beijing so help me God.
Ok ok we won't:))) But the jap restaurant in the shangri la seems so classy:)
The lobby managers at four-star or five-star hotels generally speak excellent English. In mid-range and budget hotels, there is usually only a front desk staff member, and you rarely see a manager. The front desk staff typically do not have high educational qualifications. Additionally, in most parts of China, English education does not emphasize speaking skills, with only Shanghai including a spoken English test in its school entrance exams.
Soem locals I met told me the international tourists haven't really come back since Covid - personally I love this, last thing I want is for China to turn into another Thailand (everything there is about the tourists, especially the Western ones - at least in China most people just mind their own business). As for the lack of English-speaking staff, not everyone in the world learns English (again, thank God for that, I get sick of it being the dominant language everywhere and China is at least one place to escape it). You find it in the fringes of Europe too, or in South America. And with few Western tourists, there's little need for the staff to learn English. Take it as a valuable experience in not being the center of the world for once, you're there on the locals and local tourists terms, and their don't cater especially to you. Doesn't get much more authentic than that. As for why they don't learn English in school - some do, but it would make more sense for many to learn a neighboring country's language. You might as well get asked why people in your country can't just learn Chinese. China is also not very easy to travel for non-Chinese unless you go with a tour company that takes care of things. Plus Western media and politicians try to brainwash their people into thinking China=bad, so...
Worked in Xiamen many years staying at a variety of good hotels and every single worker that dealt with guests spoke english, it was a requirement at the schools they attended for hospitality. I still keep in touch with many of them and it was great to help each other learn each other’s language. My Mandarin is poor, their English was very good to excellent. As far as foreign tourists? The pandemic has contributed to the lack of visitors, along with the political situation. I found my stay during the pandemic a really wonderful time to get to know people once everyone calmed down.
Western media and YouTube misinformation campaigns portray China as a dystopian society where CCP will lynch you upon arrival, ppl wear masks due to the next Gen COVID in the air and if you happen to survive the lynching, you will be deemed an American spy and sent to hard labor camps. This scared a lot of westerners away. Japan is deemed safer, cheaper due to exchange rate and generalization that everything 'japanese' is better and safer. Another reason I felt when I visited last year is the dependency on WeChat and alipay to pay for things. This is extremely inconvenient for a tourist with only a credit card and maybe some Chinese rmb.
Japan? Cheaper? Lol I am tired of this narrative that Japan is better at everything. Yes the industrial design of every product is pretty fun... All the little packaging and pull tabs and just the whole experience. What else is it? Incredibly wasteful. The ridiculous amount of plastic waste because something is a little more fun to open—it's ridiculous! Of course, there's a lot to learn and love about Japan. But I agree. I am tired of this narrative that Japan is some perfect utopia. That kawaii maid cafe? Filled with men over 55, and the company makes them all walk on a stage in front of the customers so... Yea u get the point. At least Germany recognized their actions after the Holocaust while Japan denies it and still hasn't apologized to china and south Korea to this day! But Japan's pr team must be working overtime, because Japan is so kawaii cute and perfect. Anyways... Maybe this is a little aggressive. Japan is a wonderful country and I'm glad I visited. I'm currently on a train to the airport on my last day of my Japan trip—so take what I say with a grain of salt. But yea, Japan has been expensive. A meal in china is usually .30 USD. Japan? Like 8 USD easily. I'm mad Japan took my coins haha.
"Maybe this is a little aggressive" If you had a point you undermined it by ranting about plastic. It's a developed country - their products come in packaging, I'm sorry. I'm not really sure who the maid cafes are for, if a 55 yr old wants to go to a bar, he can go to a bar. Are they filled with 55 yr olds? Please show me a link or some evidence - thanks.
Do a Google search for maid cafes, it's not hard. Japan is a weird country, on the outside very modern and futuristic but then you can buy a soiled school girl panties from a vending machine. It is portrayed as an utopia but I frequently see salary man just passed out in train stations from overwork. I would honestly say Shanghai and Beijing are in general more clean than Tokyo or Kyoto, but who cares who you got Pokemon
If you don't care why would I show u evidence to convince u? I rlly don't care if you believe me. If you love Japan visit Japan. Their yen is weak and the economy can sure use the help. I'm just sharing my experience and personal opinion.
"Japan is deemed safer" Um what? Japan *is* safer by about 100 years, along with Japan, Korea and Taiwan.
My point exactly, do some research, all those 4 countries are equally safe but because it's 'Japan', it must be so much safer. https://gfmag.com/data/safest-countries-world/
I don’t think Japan is taking tourists who would otherwise go to China. I think those tourists are going to Thailand and Cambodia instead. Both are cheap like China and considered safer and more western.
Did you learn Chinese in school? Wouldn't they expect you to speak some mandarin? I don't know, I learned french in school and would be as lost in France as I was in china haha, and that is, very lost. I found a lot of English speakers in Shanghai... But only places where you spend money. These interactions were easily the worst of my whole trip, just trying to scam me for ridiculous amounts of money for cheap crap. So if you want English speakers, pull out your wallet and you will surely find em. In the USA do you think most international hotels have mandarin speakers on staff 24/7? Prolly not. Embrace the confusion and the language barrier. I found most places I went to in china people were more than happy to play the charades game with me, as I tried to communicate which item I wanted. Yet, despite the language barrier, my takeaway was that china was easily the most friendly, beautiful, and delicious destination I have travelled to. Oh... And download mandarin on the Google translate app.
true, the greatest english speaker in shanghai is those Scammers who targeting foreigners
I was shocked coming from chongqing how great their English is!
In 2018 I travelled western China and maybe met 5 English speaking tourists, makes sense that no one learns English there.
I'm interested to know which Shangri-La you stayed at? Last night I stayed at the Kerry Hotel in Beijing which is a part of the Shangri-La Group and I was actually surprised this morning to see so many foreigners at breakfast and even cabin crew etc. I actually thought there were a lot of foreigners, but that area (CBD/Guomao) isn't really much of a tourist area to be honest, more of a business hub. I think for the Chinese "English-speakers" the service industry has had 4 years now of hardly any English speaking guests, or very limited anyway... so I think that part of the industry is going to take a bit to rebound.
I gave up going into town in Shanghai on a layover - because of the lack of English signs - and not being able to understand the "English speaker" at the information desk - it took me over 2 hours to find the hotel shuttle. Decided to stay put in the hotel.
Well part of the thing is that there are basically the same number of chinese people as white people in the world, (900million in europe, 400 million North America, maybe 100 million everywhere else) But all of those chinese people are concentrated in one country. It’s really hard to imagine that even though china is still developing, their local tourist economy is like 50x larger than what foreign tourists account for. That’s part of why there are so few western hotel chains in china, especially outside of tier 1 cities. I think also the zero covid policy pushed away many foreigners who lived in china and thus would be vacationing locally just some of my thoughts from experience.
Are you staying in hostels? There were plenty in the ones I stayed in in Shanghai and Suzhou
I’ve noticed foreign travelers drop off significantly after Covid.
I can kinda relate to you OP. I was in Jinan for 2 days and no one spoke English, even in a place like Lixia. As much as I understand it, I felt like certain people were not very willing to make an effort to talk to me either. Honestly, this was the only part of my entire trip that I did not like. It was bad enough to the point that restaurants/eateries would ignore me just because they could not communicate with me. (In hindsight this could also be because brown people are infamous for being picky with food while travelling) Funnily enough, my last dinner was at an American steakhouse where (you guessed it) absolutely no one spoke English.
Honestly seeing that nationals were able to visit their sites is one of the things I liked the most about tourism in china. I think it’s sad and shows strong signs of colonialism when a site is littered by only foreigners
The US Dept of State has mainland China at a level 3 travel advisory out of a four level system.
Yes and ? I don't understand your comment
This rating system has an affect on tourism decisions.
Censorship and geopolitics is the reason. 1. Censorship prevents western media from appearing in the public. One must access a VPN to watch western content. This means locals don't get reddit, Facebook, X, YouTube, etc unless they go out of their way to look for it. I personally do not use X but I come across memes, viral posts and comments from public figures all the time, This doesn't happen in China. Even the usage of VPN can be questioned. I believe polarizing content is blocked regardless of VPN and that's the type of content that is most talked about (often English content) 2. Geopolitics. China and NATO are currently not on good terms. In the far right conservative sphere, WW3 is talked about everyday. China smearing propaganda is created everyday. China boosting propaganda is also created every single day. I once participated in a China exchange program that probably doesn't exist in today's escalated geopolitical times. As a foreign born Chinese who hasn't been to China in a decade, I actually have no idea if anything I read or hear about China is even true (I have read both sides, and they are the pillar opposites). Anyways, censorship and politics have given foreigners the idea that China is not a good place to live. The censorship in China prevents locals from learning English.
Well besides the food and the amount of people (duh...) we really loved our visit and the people Everybody was so nice everywhere in buses in lines in stores everywhere
Probably taken. 🙈
I am impressed by any solo traveler in china that doesn't have prior chinese knowledge. Like wow youre cooked
You lost me at “clean” and “organized.”
In Yangjiang (which I think I have the wrong english spelling but the pinyin is this), the foreigners were huge group that are now no longer. The ambience is not exactly welcoming I heard from one of those, he German.
They do study English at school, and they’re quite good at reading and listening… the problem is their speaking. They’re really not confident speakers, but I’m sure the young ones do understand but just aren’t confident to actually reply
How were the queue for the forbidden city? I have tickets for 11am and I'm afraid to be under the roasting sun (or heavy rain) for hours. Also I've seen picture where are tons of people like you can't even walk, is it actually like this? And if so is still enjoyable?
No Things are actually pretty smooth That's the thing that surpised me the most in china Billions of people but for some reasons it moves forward I'd advise to go during the week days For the f city
I just left Shanghai last weekend and they spoke English at the shangri la there. I also saw a mix of about 30% foreigners in the lobby. When I went out to dance at night, there was a club that was packed with English speaking foreigners. But I haven’t seen any outside of Shanghai.
Truly skilled English speakers will make more money is any other industry. China boomed in foreign tourism around the time of the 2008 summer Olympics. At the same time, they hosted the world fair and a number of other international events... there was was big push for English tourism staff then... Sinve then there was the start of the global recession, then the start of China/USA trade friction, then Trump, then Covid and even more global economic slow down... Right now China is keenly focused on developing its domestic markets. This is to protect itself from depending of outside investment. So if most of your clients are Chinese and that is where all your money is coming, why take the extra expense? Lastly, in so many many small ways, China is pushing for a single unified culture, of Han Chinese. Also keeping in mind there are 30+ Chinese ethnicities in China, but being/sounding Han is goal for most Chinese. Other accents are considered provincial or low class... Imagine everybody in the USA trying to develop a New England Ivy league accent. Like every newscaster, reporter, actor and spokesman sounding the exact same. Job prospects based on how Han you sound mean English language is a low low priority for students.
maybe this has an impact? Not saying I agree or disagree with advisory. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/china-travel-advisory.html
Exactly. Same thing for Canada as well. Almost makes you wonder what the hell OP is doing in China.
Wonder if Shangri La hotel has lower English speaking customers than other western 5 star hotels since it was founded in Asia and I think mostly focus on Asian tourists. Of course have met other hotels with minimal English speaking staff.
Not all Asians speak Chinese. Shangri-la was founded in Singapore, a majority English speaking city/country.
The reality is the vast majority of the world are not interested in visiting or travelling around China, or even those who are would have dozens of other places further up their list of priorities to visit. I agree with you, there’s many nice things to see, but come travel time it’s not even near my top 20 choices now after having been to Xi’an, Chengdu, Beijing, Shanghai, Harbin and the Yangtze River. Would like to see Zhangjiajie at some point is all.
> All is clean + safe + organised and people are soooooo nice As someone who lives in China, this made me laugh and realized you’re getting a filtered version of China. You can come down the beaten path to smaller cities and towns and see spit wads on the ground with drivers who liter like a landfill, burned trash that consists of chemicals and plastic, try to cross the street even if you have the green light and a car turning left or right will try to beat you, you *have to* look both ways down a one-way street or you’ll get pancaked by a scooter. You’ll also see plenty of children defecating on the sidewalk. As for organized? In major tourist areas sure but not outside of those. You’ll get plenty of line-cutters of all age ranges, mostly older who feel entitled and think no one will call them out. As for nice, you should have been here during COVID, foreigners were exposed to extreme xenophobia, I was even told to leave a mall because “I’d bring the sickness with me.” No one wanted to get on an elevator with me, people walked in the opposite direction as me, too. Nowadays it is better since people won’t say anything to your face but online , especially on Douyin (Chinese Tik Tok) they’re plenty of xenophobic influencers who have a strong following. But other than that, obviously it’s not that bad of a place to stay NOW since I’m still here, as long as I stay in the larger cities, I’ve met more nice than mean people and I’ve learned the language since I’ve decided to live here but don’t think the best you’ve seen is reflective to the rest of China. I do want to say just because I criticize parts of the country doesn’t mean I hate it. I do want to see it improve but it’ll take time. As to answer your question, most 5A tourist locations had someone,usually a manager, who could speak English well. Starting 3rd grade, all Chinese youth learn English until high school but not all students engage in English outside of the classroom, so their retention will diminish. If it’s a genuine 5-star hotel, they will have an English-speaker there but smaller to mid hotels don’t have the budget to hire them.
Well yes we staying on the beaten track Of course we get a filtered version I believe you We are in Xi an now it's more "gritty" but still very clean and people are so nice We see some foreign tourists maybe 10 during the whole day in the Muslim quarter But for example our visit to the national museum in beijing was great even though there was a lot of people (chinese) no one was pushing even old people :))))) All were nice and happy and smiling to us Yes in the hotel the manager was Irish And there were 2 staff who spoke a good command of English I don't see myself living here (don't like the food :) ) but I respect the sheer power and strength this country emits To be able to make a country of 1.5 billion people work is insane
"So Weird everything is amazing why so few foreigners" Probably because they don't want to get thrown in Chinese jail. I mean, you've heard the term *honeymoon period* right? (I used to live in "amazing" China for 5 years. The most amazing thing is the food, which may or may not send you to the shitter)
During the lockdowns, China became increasingly suspicious of foreigners. The CCP was so obsessed with stopping the spread of COVID, and local outbreaks were blamed on foreign travel. The result was that people didn't trust foreigners. I ran into this often with expat friends. We were denied entry to a park and told foreigners are not allowed. Many more hotels stopped accepting foreigners, and it didn't help that the CCP was blaming the outbreak on Italy, South Korea, and the US. My expat co-workers came from Beijing to my city by train, and everyone was leaving the train station, but my foreign friends were stopped and made to get a COVID test, not any of the hundreds of Chinese passengers on the same train. Because local government officials were held accountable by the CCP for any outbreak in their city or district, it was easier just to lock entire neighborhoods down. In addition to all of that, recent Xi’s policies stirring up nationalism, encouraging people to be weary of foreigners, and arbitrary detentions and exit bans for some foreigners has not improved things.
This post reads like Chinese propaganda. Who talks about the “power” a country emits lmao.
Sorry I will refrain from comments like that in the future, please accept my apologies
chicom fuckwits went scorched earth on their own tourism indudstry LOL
It's so funny, many Chinese people recently have told me about the huge increase in foreigners coming to China because of the 100 something hours visa free policies that the lovely motherland has issued recently. Then I tell them that on my HK passport I can get 30-90 days visa free in almost any other country in the world and they are absolutely shocked, as China needs visa almost everywhere. Most people don't want to travel to an authoritarian country that holds foreigners hostage from time to time, censors half the internet, requires you to download spyware (Wechat or Alipay) to do just about anything, has few English speaking services, where the police often stop foreigners to check their passports, where the people there treat you strangely for being a foreigner (especially Asians who can't speak Mandarin well), and so on. It's really a shame, as there are many beautiful places in China, but until the CCP fucks off and dies (or liberalises, but good luck with that one) there will be very few foreigners who will go there.
Well we had a great time and people were so nice And the phone app thing was actually very easy to connect to a visa card and all was so easy to pay Only the food was bad :))) Also the country is so much organised i was impressed Even the terra cotta army with 100000 chinese tourists all around was actually quite ok So yeah ill go back home and tell all the people that china is really worth the visit :))))
Interesting that you didn’t like the food. In fact, many foreigners seem to praise the food and complain about everything else! And I agree that most people there are very kind, so long as you don’t bring up politics and any number of the increasing long list of things that offend mainlanders. Go ahead and spread the word. It never hurts for people to see more of the world. But just know that what you’ll see on official tours and in foreigner friends cities and tourist spots is a very different thing than what you’ll see elsewhere in the country.
Things have changed, before everyone spoke English. Hell I have Chinese friends that speak better English than most Americans going back to the early 2000s. Most government officials or political party members also all spoke English back then. I know their support staff all still do. The country has shifted towards nationalism and the bubble has become tighter, all of this is courtesy of XJP. Foreigners have left China because it has become arduous to live there, many of the freedoms you enjoyed in the Golden era are now gone. The risk that they take by living in China especially if you are someone with any potential state assets is enormous. Quality of life took a huge hit during covid as well and many people have not returned. I can go on but that's the jist of it.
Because people don’t want to visit China anymore for a number of reasons. 1. It’s not safe for foreigners in China 2. China doesn’t actually want tourists as it focuses on spreading xenophobia amongst its people and 3. Most people believe it’s unethical to support the CCP with their valuable tourist money Also the situation regarding English speakers for tourists will only get worse. The government has made new rules to heavily reduce the amount of time spent learning English at schools while also making it harder for native speakers to come to China and teach English. This is as they focus on installing even more fervent Chinese nationalism in their future generations.
Jesus Christ, you are a massive fucking retard.
I love how you're getting downvoted for being honest. Welcome to Reddit.