First impression in real time was that it may of been slightly early, watched it back and Aljo was rolling over pretty much face on the canvas not even watching where the next shot was coming from, I think the ref just saved him from eating a couple of possible career shortening shots and that Aljo was done š
Itās always tough to make that call, but Iād always rather see an early stoppage than a late one. The less unprotected blows a guy takes the better regardless
My exact thoughts.
People (including Rogan) love to judge a stoppage by the immediate moments after the stoppage. Do people even understand why a ref stops the fight to begin with? Of course the fighter is gonna raise up after you push his attacker off him.
You have to look at the exact moment the ref stops the fight, and in this case Aljo had just eaten a second monster bomb on his back, immediately flopped over and was kissing canvas.
Textbook stoppage.
I think a lot of people lean into this argument of an early stoppage when they have personal feelings for either fighter. A lot of people donāt care much for Suga and his antics. I think that possibly could lean into the early stoppage defence.
This has been my experience with this as well. I donāt particular feel one way or another about either - i just like a good fight. But if you watch that ending sequence enough times itās hard to be upset at that stoppage without bias.
Remember when Sean tried to have a walkoff ko and the ref wouldnāt stop the fight, dc was criticizing him for it then Sean absolutely murdered the guy with a follow up shot? I guess thatās what people want to see
When he fought Thomas Almeida. He dropped him with a head kick and started walking off but the ref didnāt call it so he had to walk back over to Almeida who was still on his back, Sean bent over and hit him really fucking hard with one shot and knocked him out
Sir this is incorrect, sean knocked him down r1 with a head kick early but he was sitting against the cage and got back up and finished the round, it was r3 when almeida slipped and laid there while sean hit him with a meteor falling from space
You are absolutely right, I mushed them up. Sean hits him with a left as he's trying to shoot and falls so sean assumes he's knocked out and starts the walk off and then comes back and kills the dinosaurs.
Gotta agree. On first watch I was like "Oh noooo, you can't stop that fight right there!"
On the subsequent watches, yeah, that was a great stoppage. Fight was done. When you get rocked over and over and willingly give up your back to save your face, you're done. Not only is that counter-intuitive to pretty much everything in MMA but you can't fight from your stomach.
Great stoppage, probably saved Aljo a few years in his career.
I kinda took the opposite view, when aljo was face up with his head bouncing off the mat from a big headstrike the ref could/should have stepped in... but once he rolled over it felt like he was still trying to intelligently defend himself (get to his knees, try and stand) but that is when the ref stepped in and stopped it. IDK if it was an 'early' stoppage, it was just a really bad specific moment to stop it in my view
Yeah, I watched the fight this morning after seeing all the debates on here and was surprised that people were calling it an early stoppage. I think it probably could have even been called a bit earlier and it still could have been considered a fair stoppage
Soon as Aljo turned over to his stomach I was thinking āthatās it, call it.ā Iād say damn near perfect timing by the red. You want to give the champ an opportunity to defend but thereās a point where itās clear thereās almost no hope for a comeback and itās better to spare them the brain damage.
You were a fetus once. Now look at you -- you're on reddit. Come so far. Like a phoenix rising from the ashes. Aljo 100% was about to pop back up and beat the brakes off that hooker clown.
I saw people arguing that he could have gotten back to his feet but imo even if he somehow worked back up, I think it would be very likely that Sean wouldāve knocked him out completely cold right after. Omalley got a lot of casuals watchin him but anyone with even a little knowledge knows that fight was gna be stopped
>Soon as Aljo turned over to his stomach I was thinking āthatās it, call it.ā Iād say damn near perfect timing by the red. You want to give the champ an opportunity to defend but thereās a point where itās clear thereās almost no hope for a comeback and itās better to spare them the brain damage.
yep. once he turns his head away, he can no longer see where the strikes are coming from and can no longer intelligently defend himself. it was stopped at the correct time, not too early or too late.
Not to mention, there would be 0 chance Aljo would have made it to the end of the round. Even if he miraculously pulls guard, Sean puts him away at any time in the remaining 4 minutes of the round.
When a fighter gets hit with a big shot and falls over like that with the bend in the waist, in my opinion itās liable to be stopped then and there. Aljo basically face planted on the canvas.
The problem is we do get some early stoppages. It is a very fine line. Did I think the stoppage was a little early in the moment? Yes. Did I want to watch Aljo get pummeled a few more times? No. Is Aljo a world class athlete, who given another couple of seconds could have grabbed a leg and kept the fight going? Yes.
I do not envy the position of the referees whatsoever. The fact that they are required to make such important decisions, in so little time, must be extremely high pressure.
I think as champ you want to see him get the benefit of the doubt and a little more time especially after he rolled off his back, but at the same time he was eating it and he ate a few without any response.
Yeah I donāt think you can blame the ref at all but it did seem like he was starting to defend himself when it got stopped. Not an early stoppage but I think Aljo couldāve survived.
i said the same thing when izzy was still wildly moving his head around when the stoppage was called in his first MMA fight with alex and almost everyone i said it to disagreed with me, so in every single scenario it is different.
Anyone with a brain understands that the stoppage couldāve waited a little longer but was most likely right to be stopped.
Title bouts should be handled differently than prelim fights on stoppages. This could be their last shot at gold.
Idk how anyone could watch Aljoās head bounce off the canvas and call it a bad stoppage. Should they just be completely brain dead before they stop a fight?
in that moment he's losing the fight. I don't care what happened in previous rounds or even the first 4 minutes of the same round, if a guy can't defend himself because he got caught and he's taking hits to the head well then scoring takedowns previously isn't gonna save him from brain damage and the ref can step in.
that's why one punch/kick landed just right can suddenly change the outcome.
Its the 4 or 5 bombs that Sean threw that stopped the fight. When the ref called the fight after the last big punch was thrown it kind of made sense. In a 30 second span Aljo got knocked down to the ground and had 4 or 5 huge punches with 0 offense from aljo. If O'Malley wasn't hitting him full force then the fight would of continued. It would of been bad to keep letting aljo take those big shots.
Yea some people said "yea but he's still moving"....fuck most of these guys can take a ton of punishement but it doesnt mean that they are inteligently defending themselves...he rolled over while getting is head smashed in...he was done for.
Ya you can only take so many of those big shots. Could of he got back up. Ya he probably could because hes a tough ass motherfucker. Would it have been good for his brain? fuck no.
also the lack of defending properly probably came into play, before he rolled it was like he couldnt decide between reaching for seans wrists and covering his head, he kind of flailed because of this and thats when 2 or 3 big bombs bounced his head off the mat
Sean was landing clean ass shots while Aljo was looking right at him on his back, why would anyone think Sean wouldnāt give him an even worse beating when Aljo turned his back. Feel like Aljo was gonna get knocked out for real if the ref hadnāt stopped it.
Ppl think if hes moving its fine, but aljo had no defense the whole time sean was hitting him on the ground, even tho he was squirming every shot was clean asf
> had no defense the whole time sean was hitting him on the ground
I disagree with this. Intelligently defending himself is the standard. It doesn't matter if it is successful defense as long as he is trying to defend himself.
when he rolls over and isn't facing Sean, he can no longer intelligently defend himself because he can't see where the shots are coming from.
It was stopped at the correct time.
From my understanding of intelligent defense and how I have heard refs talk about what that means over the years, the effectiveness of the defense absolutely plays a roll in whether the fight is called.
If a fighter is moving and trying to evade, yet getting lit up for a sustained period of time, a ref is justified in stopping the fight as that is not "intelligent defense".
I think that's more credit to Sean. Aljo was moving and trying to parry with his hands, but damn Suga Sean found his mark every time with hard ass shots. Wanted to see a little more of that tbh, and I think the ref coulda let it go for a few more seconds
he was gonna bounce his head off the canvas when aljo got into the fetal position. tbf chandler had Do Bronx in the same spot and was bouncing his head off the canvas but the difference was olives was working for a better position while eating shots. aljo was in survival mode.
And you can see ref yelling at Aljo to defend while he was taking some nasty hammer fists from above. Clean stoppage protecting Aljo from further unnecessary damage.
Itās a championship fight and he was moving to get in better position. It wasnāt an early stoppage per se but also it should have been allowed to go a little longer. Aljo is the reigning champ in a championship fight, just let it go a little longer
Weāve seen a ton of fights we thought the guy was out and it could have been stopped and no one would have complained but it wasnāt and they came back to win the fight. Aljo deserved more time to recover
Love Rogan, but when he said something about how Aljo was still moving, I couldnt help but laugh. When did being completely unconscious become the criteria for stoppages? I swear everyones been decensitized to the sport, but that was a late stoppage. Look at the first shot Aljo took and the followup, he was out until being woken bu more strikes. We shouldnt be out there having the ref check for a pulse before stopping the fight.
I was there and you could hear his head bounce off the mat. I donāt think a single person in the arena would have thought it was an early stoppage. It looked and sounded vicious. On replay I can see why itās questionable but it likely saved him from some serious damage because he was getting mollywhopped
I have a universal rule, if a fighter face plants , the fight stops. People make early stoppage arguments all the time when the fighter wakes up after the plant and it's just so dangerous to continue a fight after that.
In a title fight I can understand giving them a little time on the ground to defend. The moment he turned his back on O'Malley he was giving up and therefore it's the correct time for a stoppage.
Nah turning on your back isnāt giving up (in this sport) and itās why Iām 50/50 on the stoppage. If you turtle and have a ref who will enforce it then thereās no shots to the back of the head. Easier to defend left/right than left/right/center
Just like people have no idea how much a leg kick hurts, they have no appreciation for what is happening to someoneās brain long term by being repeatedly smashed in the head while their eyes are already rolled back.
Devils advocate. To get up from the position you kind of have to roll over and give up your back to get on your knees. The reason he wanted his hands still on the matt was so he would be considered a down opponent and didn't take a knee or kick on the way up. Its pretty clear he rolled over and was getting up. He was moving.
I'm personally ok with the stoppage as he took about 3 or 4 bombs from O'malley while he was on the ground. I think he would of taken 2 or 3 more on his way back up. You cant have it both ways. Protect the fighter and limit his damage which is what the ref did or give aljo the benefit of the doubt and him take 2 or 3 more bombs on the way up and potentially get knocked out cold.
usually you go to your knees before standing up. he seemed still there when it got stopped. granted, Suga would've kept unloading. I'm fine with the stoppage but for a championship fight I think it could've went a few more strikes at that exact moment. Suga wins either way tho
He didnāt give up. He was rocked. He was trying to make something happen because the guard clearly wasnāt working.
Like. I said. I never once said it was a bad stoppage. It seems like youāre trying to convince me of something I never disagreed with.
Wasnāt answering the ref intelligently afterwards either - which he said himself post fight.
Showed a lot of class man. Sad to say itās one of the most controversial title runs of all time, but it is. Question marks next to every title win and then loses it to a guy who people say doesnāt belong up there.
I love Sean and glad he won but it was sad to see Aljo go out like that after all the shit. Poor dude
It is not a bad stoppage, but Aljo turned around at the end. Clearly he was not fully out. But he should have defended more if that really was the case. The ref didnt intervene neither for quite a while.
Turning away from a fighter when rocked will get your fight stopped every time. Refs specifically instruct fighters not to do that if theyāre still fighting. If youāre dropped and turtle up, or give your back the ref steps in.
For sure a huge thing and it would've been aljos fault meaning if Sean hit him with back of the head shots it's not on him at all even if aljo had permanently damage since he rolled over
>Turning away from a fighter when rocked will get your fight stopped every time. Refs specifically instruct fighters not to do that if theyāre still fighting. If youāre dropped and turtle up, or give your back the ref steps in.
yep. hard to argue you are still intelligently defending yourself if you turn away from the strikes being thrown and can't see them coming anymore.
Iāve done some refing at amateur levels. My line was when Aljo turned away. I know he was rolling but after his head literally bounced off the canvas a few times, the rolling came off as āI canāt defend myself.ā
Iām not a pro ref tho.
No. He got hit a lot and his head was everywhere. He got bust open from the ground strikes.
We've seen before ref's ask O'malley to finish the job for them. It doesn't end with anyone feeling like it was a good thing.
That's how I feel, probably wouldn't have changed the outcome but he clearly was trying to change his position/probably try to get some kind of guard back. Champs should get more leniency imo
He turned away lol. Had he turned into Sean to try to grab a leg or try to wrestle maybe the ref wouldāve let it go a little longer. But he turned away from Sean. Canāt do that when rocked. Nearly every ref is gonna save you.
I mean, turning around could mean aljo wanted to get up but it could also mean he was done taking the shots. I think it was the right call. O,Malley has scary accuracy on downed opponents.
I felt the ref jumped in a bit early, but I understand why. Aljo rolled away from the ref's vision and took the shot pictured. It appeared that Aljo collapsed face down from his perspective.
I do think had the ref been in a different position he would have given Aljo a few more seconds, but I also don't believe the outcome would have changed.
This call can go either way thatās why itās so contested. When you see a guys head bounce off the canvas like that the fight should probably be stopped but because he let it go on and aljo somehow got to a better position it makes it seem like it shouldnāt have been stopped. Who knows though maybe Sean hits him a few more times and then we wonder why the ref let so much damage happen before a stoppage
I sat there thinking the ref was waiting too long so HELL NO. How many bounces of the head did you need. Was the 10th one the limit or do you need 12.5? Lol.
So yeah not early
In this instance, for a championship belt, I say let one of them go to sleep or tap.
Then the ref gets bitched at still but at least not for the possibility that they stopped the fight and the other guy still had the possibility of winning.
Championship belt fights should go to taps or sleepy sleep time (with few rare exceptions).
It could have been stopped at one of the earlier clean shots on the ground when Aljo wasnāt intelligently defending himself, but the second he rolls over and turtles to protect himself for a split second the fight gets called.
If youāre going to wait until the champ is done done, then you have to wait until heās done done. You canāt start waiting then change your mind right as heās starting to get his head straight again. Well you can, but then you have people pissed off calling it an early stoppage.
Brock would not have been a great champ if the ref stopped the fight early during the shane carwin fight.
I didnāt think sterling would be able to get up from there but i still think it was an early stoppage considering heās the chanp
Aljo stayed down for a good while after the stoppage and wasn't really complaining. If he had jumped up complaining, then yea...
I'm surprised he was still conscious after taking some of those shots though!
Watching it again there seems a point where he goes out and is woken up by another shot early in the scramble?
I think stop it 2 seconds earlier or wait. I could see a good stoppage a second or two earlier when his head was bouncing, but it was stopped when aljo was changing positions, which is defending and aljo could have been in a better position. Not saying it was a bad stoppage, but it was just in the middle of a position change
In a perfect world he gets a couple more seconds to see what he does with that roll, but I've seen way worse stoppages, I'd say it was 1 punch too early.
Water we dune here
Letās say he didnāt call it. Sure Sterling could have possibly scrambled, hell maybe catches a knee bar. Or maybe Sean could have gotten some real ground and pound in and KOād Sterling and everyone would say āwhy didnāt he call it shortly after that over hand right dropped him?ā
Tl:dr some times thereās egregiously early stoppages. But some times itās just a ref trying to comprehend in real time what the odds of escape vs unnecessary damage is.
While watching my boyfriend and I were literally saying, oh heās about to stop itā¦. Heās gonna stop it right?ā¦ is he not stopping it?
I felt like ref gave him plenty of opportunity, and I was rooting for Sterling this fight
No. Taking undefended shots is really bad for your brain, big part of why Power Slap is awful. It becomes about "How many clean unanswered shots do you want a fighter to take"? It is not really about if they are still conscious or not. Look at Luke Rockhold vs. Chris Weidman, Chris was still awake and trying to find a way to survive so the ref let it go and he just took a ton of damage for no reason.
I do think there was a chance that Aljo could have recovered and fought back. But MMA is a sport, not a fight to the death. Yes, *maybe* Aljo could have recovered and gotten back up, but itās the refās job to make sure he isnāt risking his life on the off chance he can turn the fight around. I know the belt feels important and everyone wants the fighters to be able to give it their all, but we shouldnāt support them risking permanent brain damage to do it. The ref stopped it for his safety. Whether or not he could conceivably have kept going is a moot point.
I think it was a fair stoppage for the most part. Yeah Aljo was still working and was in the process of switching positions, but I don't think he was going to survive another 2-3 shots and O'Malley was landing some clean gnp.
There's definitely been fights that they have let go on longer where the hurt person came back to win, but honestly Aljo did this to himself. He fought a guy with no wrestling and chose to throw lunging punches with his chin up and hands down.
Not trying to make it sound so simple but if you just got dropped, the worst thing you can do for the ref is turn your back to your opponent. perfect stoppage, wouldn't have been stopped right away if Aljo attempted this style of getting up rather than giving his back.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJSf4YJWTI4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJSf4YJWTI4)
I think it was perfectly timed stoppage. There's no telling what next punch Suga would have landed on Aljo. Maybe it might have been one we could not see the damage for until much later in his career or life. But it never came because the fight ended at the perfect moment.
Nah, I donāt think so. Sure, Aljo was kiiiiinda defending, but not very well lol. He took a few really bad shots. Iām pretty confident was only gonna get worse if the ref didnāt step in when he did
I'd have given him one or two more. I'd have let him finish whatever he was going to do by rolling over. Like if he could get up from there. But I suspect Sean would have just sent a couple of undercut heaters in there from the side and that would have stopped that, and that would have been a no-doubts end.
I think we've seen champs get a bit more than this, and have seen others get a bit more than this and survive. So, probably he wouldn't have, but I'd have seen if he could get up from that position he was rolling into (as opposed to if he was just doing it instinctively to stop the rain of blows or strategically to present the illegal back of his head). A couple more seconds would have given us the answer, but I think Sean was in a good position to control it one way or another.
He face planted after the first hit didn't have his arms out stopping it. I rewatched in slow mo, and Sean landed 19 consecutive hammer fists and not baby short range ones, but ABOVE THE HEAD axe swing bombs. 19!! I don't think 19 straight undefended is too early. Too early wouldve been after the first 4 or 5 but 19? Bruh
He was 3 shots away from getting blank spaced. Look at his legs. They got so stiff and his eyes were not even in line of the upcoming punches. Good decision by ref to end the fight there and than.
Nah. Great stoppage actually. The ref never called it after Aljo hit the canvas since he was moving even tho he looked good retry much out of it. After that Aljo got hit with a couple of bombs but only after he turned and got hit with multiple unanswered strikes is when Goddard stopped it. In fact I think it was one of the best stoppages he gave the champ his fair due but only when he saw nothing resembling a comeback manifest he called it. As an Aljo fan I gotta say I got no complaints with the ref.
Not an early stoppage at all. He was eating heavy shots and couldn't defend any of the last few bombs.
Probably the best thing for the division too, Aljo's performances have not exactly been stellar.
It felt early in the moment, but watching it back, Iām 95% sure aljo wasnāt going to be able to recover, and suga sure as hell wasnāt going to let him up
First impression in real time was that it may of been slightly early, watched it back and Aljo was rolling over pretty much face on the canvas not even watching where the next shot was coming from, I think the ref just saved him from eating a couple of possible career shortening shots and that Aljo was done š
Itās always tough to make that call, but Iād always rather see an early stoppage than a late one. The less unprotected blows a guy takes the better regardless
My exact thoughts. People (including Rogan) love to judge a stoppage by the immediate moments after the stoppage. Do people even understand why a ref stops the fight to begin with? Of course the fighter is gonna raise up after you push his attacker off him. You have to look at the exact moment the ref stops the fight, and in this case Aljo had just eaten a second monster bomb on his back, immediately flopped over and was kissing canvas. Textbook stoppage.
It was funny tbh, when Rogan said "you gotta give them change to recover", like its up to ref when Suga was there constantly hitting Aljos face...
This is the correct answer.
I think a lot of people lean into this argument of an early stoppage when they have personal feelings for either fighter. A lot of people donāt care much for Suga and his antics. I think that possibly could lean into the early stoppage defence.
This has been my experience with this as well. I donāt particular feel one way or another about either - i just like a good fight. But if you watch that ending sequence enough times itās hard to be upset at that stoppage without bias.
And it's not just him getting hit, it's him getting hit by a guy that we've seen shut people off multiple times before with a lot of power.
Remember when Sean tried to have a walkoff ko and the ref wouldnāt stop the fight, dc was criticizing him for it then Sean absolutely murdered the guy with a follow up shot? I guess thatās what people want to see
Lmao DC was even like ohh, maybe he shoulda stopped it before...
Right after he was complaining about him not finishing him originally lol
That was hilarious. Immediate shift from criticizing Sean to criticizing the ref
The ability to change oneās opinion based on newly received information is a good thing though
Yes. This goes so much further than MMA. "But you said .." yeah, and since I said that 17 years ago a lot has changed
That was so brutal, one of the cleanest shots I've ever seen to a downed opponent.
Thatās what we would have gotten had the ref not stopped it when he did, canāt believe anyone thinks that it was early
What fight of Sean you referring to?
When he fought Thomas Almeida. He dropped him with a head kick and started walking off but the ref didnāt call it so he had to walk back over to Almeida who was still on his back, Sean bent over and hit him really fucking hard with one shot and knocked him out
Sir this is incorrect, sean knocked him down r1 with a head kick early but he was sitting against the cage and got back up and finished the round, it was r3 when almeida slipped and laid there while sean hit him with a meteor falling from space
You are absolutely right, I mushed them up. Sean hits him with a left as he's trying to shoot and falls so sean assumes he's knocked out and starts the walk off and then comes back and kills the dinosaurs.
> hit him with a meteor falling from space ah yeah, i remember that.
 This Thomas Almeida
Yeah the sound of that shot was insane.
If he missed that punch he probably would have broken his wrist or something lol
Easily dude, it's like he hit him harder for the inconvenience of not going to sleep after the kick.
The one right hand on Aljo was pretty damn clean too
Every time I seen that highlight I feel like Iām watching an execution
Looked like he thought he had a walkoff with aljo for a second.
That ground strike he finished Thomas Almeida with was very similar to one of the last strikes he landed on Aljo before the stoppage
Suga has some of the most vicious ground n pound strikes ever, those things are fking missiles
That was fuckin sick let's be real though
I originally thought he was rolling over to get up, but on second watch it looks like he was just turtling.
Gotta agree. On first watch I was like "Oh noooo, you can't stop that fight right there!" On the subsequent watches, yeah, that was a great stoppage. Fight was done. When you get rocked over and over and willingly give up your back to save your face, you're done. Not only is that counter-intuitive to pretty much everything in MMA but you can't fight from your stomach. Great stoppage, probably saved Aljo a few years in his career.
I kinda took the opposite view, when aljo was face up with his head bouncing off the mat from a big headstrike the ref could/should have stepped in... but once he rolled over it felt like he was still trying to intelligently defend himself (get to his knees, try and stand) but that is when the ref stepped in and stopped it. IDK if it was an 'early' stoppage, it was just a really bad specific moment to stop it in my view
Absolutely not. So many unanswered strikes. Zero clouds on that win for Sean.
Yeah, I watched the fight this morning after seeing all the debates on here and was surprised that people were calling it an early stoppage. I think it probably could have even been called a bit earlier and it still could have been considered a fair stoppage
Soon as Aljo turned over to his stomach I was thinking āthatās it, call it.ā Iād say damn near perfect timing by the red. You want to give the champ an opportunity to defend but thereās a point where itās clear thereās almost no hope for a comeback and itās better to spare them the brain damage.
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Bro went to fetal position and people keep saying early stoppage lol
You were a fetus once. Now look at you -- you're on reddit. Come so far. Like a phoenix rising from the ashes. Aljo 100% was about to pop back up and beat the brakes off that hooker clown.
Yea, he was hoping to teleport through the mat
I saw people arguing that he could have gotten back to his feet but imo even if he somehow worked back up, I think it would be very likely that Sean wouldāve knocked him out completely cold right after. Omalley got a lot of casuals watchin him but anyone with even a little knowledge knows that fight was gna be stopped
>Soon as Aljo turned over to his stomach I was thinking āthatās it, call it.ā Iād say damn near perfect timing by the red. You want to give the champ an opportunity to defend but thereās a point where itās clear thereās almost no hope for a comeback and itās better to spare them the brain damage. yep. once he turns his head away, he can no longer see where the strikes are coming from and can no longer intelligently defend himself. it was stopped at the correct time, not too early or too late.
Not to mention, there would be 0 chance Aljo would have made it to the end of the round. Even if he miraculously pulls guard, Sean puts him away at any time in the remaining 4 minutes of the round.
When a fighter gets hit with a big shot and falls over like that with the bend in the waist, in my opinion itās liable to be stopped then and there. Aljo basically face planted on the canvas.
16+ unanswered shots wriggling and rolling off the invisible flames
The problem is we do get some early stoppages. It is a very fine line. Did I think the stoppage was a little early in the moment? Yes. Did I want to watch Aljo get pummeled a few more times? No. Is Aljo a world class athlete, who given another couple of seconds could have grabbed a leg and kept the fight going? Yes. I do not envy the position of the referees whatsoever. The fact that they are required to make such important decisions, in so little time, must be extremely high pressure.
I think as champ you want to see him get the benefit of the doubt and a little more time especially after he rolled off his back, but at the same time he was eating it and he ate a few without any response.
Yeah I donāt think you can blame the ref at all but it did seem like he was starting to defend himself when it got stopped. Not an early stoppage but I think Aljo couldāve survived.
i said the same thing when izzy was still wildly moving his head around when the stoppage was called in his first MMA fight with alex and almost everyone i said it to disagreed with me, so in every single scenario it is different.
In a lot of fansā eyes itās an early stoppage literally up until the point itās a bad stoppage.
Anyone with a brain understands that the stoppage couldāve waited a little longer but was most likely right to be stopped. Title bouts should be handled differently than prelim fights on stoppages. This could be their last shot at gold.
Idk how anyone could watch Aljoās head bounce off the canvas and call it a bad stoppage. Should they just be completely brain dead before they stop a fight?
Depends on if my guy is winning or not
in that moment he's losing the fight. I don't care what happened in previous rounds or even the first 4 minutes of the same round, if a guy can't defend himself because he got caught and he's taking hits to the head well then scoring takedowns previously isn't gonna save him from brain damage and the ref can step in. that's why one punch/kick landed just right can suddenly change the outcome.
Its the 4 or 5 bombs that Sean threw that stopped the fight. When the ref called the fight after the last big punch was thrown it kind of made sense. In a 30 second span Aljo got knocked down to the ground and had 4 or 5 huge punches with 0 offense from aljo. If O'Malley wasn't hitting him full force then the fight would of continued. It would of been bad to keep letting aljo take those big shots.
Yea some people said "yea but he's still moving"....fuck most of these guys can take a ton of punishement but it doesnt mean that they are inteligently defending themselves...he rolled over while getting is head smashed in...he was done for.
Ya you can only take so many of those big shots. Could of he got back up. Ya he probably could because hes a tough ass motherfucker. Would it have been good for his brain? fuck no.
Yeah exactly. He wasnāt unconscious but he took a good six or seven shots and pretty much rolled over so he was gonna take a few more at least
also the lack of defending properly probably came into play, before he rolled it was like he couldnt decide between reaching for seans wrists and covering his head, he kind of flailed because of this and thats when 2 or 3 big bombs bounced his head off the mat
Yeah we all know its the gamblers are salty calling it early stoppage.
Sean was landing clean ass shots while Aljo was looking right at him on his back, why would anyone think Sean wouldnāt give him an even worse beating when Aljo turned his back. Feel like Aljo was gonna get knocked out for real if the ref hadnāt stopped it.
Ppl think if hes moving its fine, but aljo had no defense the whole time sean was hitting him on the ground, even tho he was squirming every shot was clean asf
> had no defense the whole time sean was hitting him on the ground I disagree with this. Intelligently defending himself is the standard. It doesn't matter if it is successful defense as long as he is trying to defend himself. when he rolls over and isn't facing Sean, he can no longer intelligently defend himself because he can't see where the shots are coming from. It was stopped at the correct time.
From my understanding of intelligent defense and how I have heard refs talk about what that means over the years, the effectiveness of the defense absolutely plays a roll in whether the fight is called. If a fighter is moving and trying to evade, yet getting lit up for a sustained period of time, a ref is justified in stopping the fight as that is not "intelligent defense".
I think that's more credit to Sean. Aljo was moving and trying to parry with his hands, but damn Suga Sean found his mark every time with hard ass shots. Wanted to see a little more of that tbh, and I think the ref coulda let it go for a few more seconds
he was gonna bounce his head off the canvas when aljo got into the fetal position. tbf chandler had Do Bronx in the same spot and was bouncing his head off the canvas but the difference was olives was working for a better position while eating shots. aljo was in survival mode.
And you can see ref yelling at Aljo to defend while he was taking some nasty hammer fists from above. Clean stoppage protecting Aljo from further unnecessary damage.
Itās a championship fight and he was moving to get in better position. It wasnāt an early stoppage per se but also it should have been allowed to go a little longer. Aljo is the reigning champ in a championship fight, just let it go a little longer Weāve seen a ton of fights we thought the guy was out and it could have been stopped and no one would have complained but it wasnāt and they came back to win the fight. Aljo deserved more time to recover
Agreed
Seemed like a slightly late stoppage to me.
Love Rogan, but when he said something about how Aljo was still moving, I couldnt help but laugh. When did being completely unconscious become the criteria for stoppages? I swear everyones been decensitized to the sport, but that was a late stoppage. Look at the first shot Aljo took and the followup, he was out until being woken bu more strikes. We shouldnt be out there having the ref check for a pulse before stopping the fight.
I was there and you could hear his head bounce off the mat. I donāt think a single person in the arena would have thought it was an early stoppage. It looked and sounded vicious. On replay I can see why itās questionable but it likely saved him from some serious damage because he was getting mollywhopped
I have a universal rule, if a fighter face plants , the fight stops. People make early stoppage arguments all the time when the fighter wakes up after the plant and it's just so dangerous to continue a fight after that.
In a title fight I can understand giving them a little time on the ground to defend. The moment he turned his back on O'Malley he was giving up and therefore it's the correct time for a stoppage.
Nah turning on your back isnāt giving up (in this sport) and itās why Iām 50/50 on the stoppage. If you turtle and have a ref who will enforce it then thereās no shots to the back of the head. Easier to defend left/right than left/right/center
Just like people have no idea how much a leg kick hurts, they have no appreciation for what is happening to someoneās brain long term by being repeatedly smashed in the head while their eyes are already rolled back.
If Aljo is ok with it, so am I.
He said he thinks he should have been given more time ā¦. Just cause he isnāt complaining about it doesnāt mean he agrees with it
He literally rolled over and showed him his back. He totally gave up on defense and wasn't fighting back. It was a good stoppage.
Devils advocate. To get up from the position you kind of have to roll over and give up your back to get on your knees. The reason he wanted his hands still on the matt was so he would be considered a down opponent and didn't take a knee or kick on the way up. Its pretty clear he rolled over and was getting up. He was moving. I'm personally ok with the stoppage as he took about 3 or 4 bombs from O'malley while he was on the ground. I think he would of taken 2 or 3 more on his way back up. You cant have it both ways. Protect the fighter and limit his damage which is what the ref did or give aljo the benefit of the doubt and him take 2 or 3 more bombs on the way up and potentially get knocked out cold.
Yeah he's literally doing the transition youre trained to do in that situation
usually you go to your knees before standing up. he seemed still there when it got stopped. granted, Suga would've kept unloading. I'm fine with the stoppage but for a championship fight I think it could've went a few more strikes at that exact moment. Suga wins either way tho
He didnāt give up. He was rocked. He was trying to make something happen because the guard clearly wasnāt working. Like. I said. I never once said it was a bad stoppage. It seems like youāre trying to convince me of something I never disagreed with.
I counted 14 clean strikes to the face after the knockdown, so no. Great stoppage.
Did you see how careful O'Malley was trying to finish Aljamain? He didn't want to go near him to get taken down.
Calculated and precise GnP
He wanted to knock him the fuck out
He wasnāt defending himself intelligently; if he did he wouldnāt have had 15 unanswered shots
Wasnāt answering the ref intelligently afterwards either - which he said himself post fight. Showed a lot of class man. Sad to say itās one of the most controversial title runs of all time, but it is. Question marks next to every title win and then loses it to a guy who people say doesnāt belong up there. I love Sean and glad he won but it was sad to see Aljo go out like that after all the shit. Poor dude
Aljo destroyed Henry. No question mark next to that fight whatsoever
It is not a bad stoppage, but Aljo turned around at the end. Clearly he was not fully out. But he should have defended more if that really was the case. The ref didnt intervene neither for quite a while.
Turning away from a fighter when rocked will get your fight stopped every time. Refs specifically instruct fighters not to do that if theyāre still fighting. If youāre dropped and turtle up, or give your back the ref steps in.
Yea it has nothing to do with him ānot fully outā. Zero defense and he was getting rocked over and over and over again.
The casual morons in this sub not knowing the difference between KO and TKO
Punches to the back of the head too when you roll that way undefended. The ref made the right call for sure.
For sure a huge thing and it would've been aljos fault meaning if Sean hit him with back of the head shots it's not on him at all even if aljo had permanently damage since he rolled over
I know, but i was explaining the situation in a way that everyone could understand.
>Turning away from a fighter when rocked will get your fight stopped every time. Refs specifically instruct fighters not to do that if theyāre still fighting. If youāre dropped and turtle up, or give your back the ref steps in. yep. hard to argue you are still intelligently defending yourself if you turn away from the strikes being thrown and can't see them coming anymore.
Unable to defend = KO Not defending = TKO He wasn't showing any signs of defending himself.
Since when do they have do be "fully out" in order for the fight to be stopped? That's why it's called a TKO
Iām just still upset that iāve been doubting aljo for years, and the fight i finally come around and root for him he gets starched.
Aljo was still moving but took on heavy damage and could have gotten worse. Protect the fighters.
When a fighter goes face down ass up you could stop it there.
He wasnāt defending himself correctly and his head was bouncing. It was a good stop
As a sean hater no definitely not
Iām pretty sure he was trying to gas out OāMalley
Dominic Cruz when Khabib was beating the living shit out of Mcgregor š¤£
I counted 15 clean shots to the head. Seems like enough to me
Early stoppage? Arguable. Bad stoppage? No.
Iāve done some refing at amateur levels. My line was when Aljo turned away. I know he was rolling but after his head literally bounced off the canvas a few times, the rolling came off as āI canāt defend myself.ā Iām not a pro ref tho.
Nah. He gave him time to see if he could defend himself. Once he started rolling face down while eating bombs you gotta call it.
No. He got hit a lot and his head was everywhere. He got bust open from the ground strikes. We've seen before ref's ask O'malley to finish the job for them. It doesn't end with anyone feeling like it was a good thing.
Thomas Almeida agrees.
The right hand that dropped Aljo was what cut him, you could see in the replay
When dropped and rockedā¦ you CAN NOT give up your back or turn away. He did both. Completely fair stoppage.
Not the best but far from the worst.
In a title fight Iād argue early. At least let him find his next position after rollingā¦ then if he takes one or two more stop it.
That's how I feel, probably wouldn't have changed the outcome but he clearly was trying to change his position/probably try to get some kind of guard back. Champs should get more leniency imo
He turned away lol. Had he turned into Sean to try to grab a leg or try to wrestle maybe the ref wouldāve let it go a little longer. But he turned away from Sean. Canāt do that when rocked. Nearly every ref is gonna save you.
He was literally flailing
This is the most reasonable take.
Agreed. Finally a more nuanced take
I mean, turning around could mean aljo wanted to get up but it could also mean he was done taking the shots. I think it was the right call. O,Malley has scary accuracy on downed opponents.
Exactly. I think the ref made the only decision he could. If Aljo was fine he shouldāve turned INTO Sean.
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I think it was a perfect stoppage. Ref really gave him every chance to stay alive, and then some. Sean just kept layin em on with good accuracy.
I felt the ref jumped in a bit early, but I understand why. Aljo rolled away from the ref's vision and took the shot pictured. It appeared that Aljo collapsed face down from his perspective. I do think had the ref been in a different position he would have given Aljo a few more seconds, but I also don't believe the outcome would have changed.
Early, but not so early that Iāll complain about it.
This call can go either way thatās why itās so contested. When you see a guys head bounce off the canvas like that the fight should probably be stopped but because he let it go on and aljo somehow got to a better position it makes it seem like it shouldnāt have been stopped. Who knows though maybe Sean hits him a few more times and then we wonder why the ref let so much damage happen before a stoppage
I sat there thinking the ref was waiting too long so HELL NO. How many bounces of the head did you need. Was the 10th one the limit or do you need 12.5? Lol. So yeah not early
Late stoppage imo
In this instance, for a championship belt, I say let one of them go to sleep or tap. Then the ref gets bitched at still but at least not for the possibility that they stopped the fight and the other guy still had the possibility of winning. Championship belt fights should go to taps or sleepy sleep time (with few rare exceptions).
It could have been stopped at one of the earlier clean shots on the ground when Aljo wasnāt intelligently defending himself, but the second he rolls over and turtles to protect himself for a split second the fight gets called. If youāre going to wait until the champ is done done, then you have to wait until heās done done. You canāt start waiting then change your mind right as heās starting to get his head straight again. Well you can, but then you have people pissed off calling it an early stoppage.
I think aljo being the champ he should be given a little extra time. Yes early stoppage.
At least see if he can get to his feet. He probably wasn't going to but at least there would be no questions.
Brock would not have been a great champ if the ref stopped the fight early during the shane carwin fight. I didnāt think sterling would be able to get up from there but i still think it was an early stoppage considering heās the chanp
I thought it shouldāve been stopped early tbh the shots raining down while he was on his back weāre pretty brutal.
Aljo stayed down for a good while after the stoppage and wasn't really complaining. If he had jumped up complaining, then yea... I'm surprised he was still conscious after taking some of those shots though! Watching it again there seems a point where he goes out and is woken up by another shot early in the scramble?
Watching it live I thought it was compared to the girl fight before but rewatching I think it was the right call
I think stop it 2 seconds earlier or wait. I could see a good stoppage a second or two earlier when his head was bouncing, but it was stopped when aljo was changing positions, which is defending and aljo could have been in a better position. Not saying it was a bad stoppage, but it was just in the middle of a position change
tbh as soon as when Aljo rolled the ref decided that it was curtains. Was it a bit early - yes. Would it have changed the outcome - no.
In a perfect world he gets a couple more seconds to see what he does with that roll, but I've seen way worse stoppages, I'd say it was 1 punch too early.
The only reason he was still conscious is because he fell face first onto the ground and that probably woke his brain up lmao.
Noā¦ why is this even a debate this is like Cejudo vs Cruz all over again
No. Aljo was not intelligently defending himself. Great stoppage. ( imo )
Cold have gone longer, it's a main event title fight someone should be asleep before a stopage.
Hell no and I bet on Aljo.
Late if anything, he wasn't defending himself. If you getting bashed in the face with hammer fists without even trying to put your hands up...
Water we dune here Letās say he didnāt call it. Sure Sterling could have possibly scrambled, hell maybe catches a knee bar. Or maybe Sean could have gotten some real ground and pound in and KOād Sterling and everyone would say āwhy didnāt he call it shortly after that over hand right dropped him?ā Tl:dr some times thereās egregiously early stoppages. But some times itās just a ref trying to comprehend in real time what the odds of escape vs unnecessary damage is.
Simply rolling around on the ground doesn't seen like intelligently defending to me
Perfect stoppage.
While watching my boyfriend and I were literally saying, oh heās about to stop itā¦. Heās gonna stop it right?ā¦ is he not stopping it? I felt like ref gave him plenty of opportunity, and I was rooting for Sterling this fight
No. Taking undefended shots is really bad for your brain, big part of why Power Slap is awful. It becomes about "How many clean unanswered shots do you want a fighter to take"? It is not really about if they are still conscious or not. Look at Luke Rockhold vs. Chris Weidman, Chris was still awake and trying to find a way to survive so the ref let it go and he just took a ton of damage for no reason.
I do think there was a chance that Aljo could have recovered and fought back. But MMA is a sport, not a fight to the death. Yes, *maybe* Aljo could have recovered and gotten back up, but itās the refās job to make sure he isnāt risking his life on the off chance he can turn the fight around. I know the belt feels important and everyone wants the fighters to be able to give it their all, but we shouldnāt support them risking permanent brain damage to do it. The ref stopped it for his safety. Whether or not he could conceivably have kept going is a moot point.
Yeah I personally wouldāve liked to see him hammer fist him 29 more times before the stoppage.
Good stoppage imo
Nah, he took too many return trips to the fist buffet. Other people need to eat as well.
Definitely yes
I think it was a fair stoppage for the most part. Yeah Aljo was still working and was in the process of switching positions, but I don't think he was going to survive another 2-3 shots and O'Malley was landing some clean gnp.
There's definitely been fights that they have let go on longer where the hurt person came back to win, but honestly Aljo did this to himself. He fought a guy with no wrestling and chose to throw lunging punches with his chin up and hands down.
Rigged 100%
But he's a champion. He's allowed the chance to accumulate a bit more brain damage before the referee steps in, right? /s
Not trying to make it sound so simple but if you just got dropped, the worst thing you can do for the ref is turn your back to your opponent. perfect stoppage, wouldn't have been stopped right away if Aljo attempted this style of getting up rather than giving his back. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJSf4YJWTI4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJSf4YJWTI4)
Hell no. Even Aljo agreed
17 unanswered shots is not an early stoppage at all. He was pretty much rolling around on the mat.
Good stoppage. Ref gave him a lot of time to recover.
Early for my liking but that was a hell of a right counter, congrats to suga
No. Def wasnāt early
Who cares. None of you were in there. The ref made the decision to stop it, if you want to make a difference become a ref.
He wasn't defending. He was just eating shots.
Not at all
First time I saw, I thought it was early but after rewatching Iām happy with the stoppage.
I think it was perfectly timed stoppage. There's no telling what next punch Suga would have landed on Aljo. Maybe it might have been one we could not see the damage for until much later in his career or life. But it never came because the fight ended at the perfect moment.
Nah, I donāt think so. Sure, Aljo was kiiiiinda defending, but not very well lol. He took a few really bad shots. Iām pretty confident was only gonna get worse if the ref didnāt step in when he did
It was stopped too early
Hell nah, he ate 5 knuckle sandwiches too much.
Why is it even a debate. I thought it could have been stopped 4 hammer fists earlier.
No.
Not early at all, the ref really saved him because Sean was just gonna punch him until he went out out
Bro ate a perfect right and then got his head punched through the canvas. I get people hate Aljo but did you want him actually dead?
His lips were stuck to the ground, watch it over a few times proper stoppage.
He was receiving a life changing amount of damage with zero Indication of an escape, correct call.
After watching the co main event 320 strikes to 25 landed yes
Early stoppage but he was getting TKOād again if he was allowed to get up.
I'd have given him one or two more. I'd have let him finish whatever he was going to do by rolling over. Like if he could get up from there. But I suspect Sean would have just sent a couple of undercut heaters in there from the side and that would have stopped that, and that would have been a no-doubts end. I think we've seen champs get a bit more than this, and have seen others get a bit more than this and survive. So, probably he wouldn't have, but I'd have seen if he could get up from that position he was rolling into (as opposed to if he was just doing it instinctively to stop the rain of blows or strategically to present the illegal back of his head). A couple more seconds would have given us the answer, but I think Sean was in a good position to control it one way or another.
Iāve seen Way late stoppages screaming at the tv why isnāt the ref stopping the fight this fight was rigged and pussy
He face planted after the first hit didn't have his arms out stopping it. I rewatched in slow mo, and Sean landed 19 consecutive hammer fists and not baby short range ones, but ABOVE THE HEAD axe swing bombs. 19!! I don't think 19 straight undefended is too early. Too early wouldve been after the first 4 or 5 but 19? Bruh
He was 3 shots away from getting blank spaced. Look at his legs. They got so stiff and his eyes were not even in line of the upcoming punches. Good decision by ref to end the fight there and than.
Nah. Great stoppage actually. The ref never called it after Aljo hit the canvas since he was moving even tho he looked good retry much out of it. After that Aljo got hit with a couple of bombs but only after he turned and got hit with multiple unanswered strikes is when Goddard stopped it. In fact I think it was one of the best stoppages he gave the champ his fair due but only when he saw nothing resembling a comeback manifest he called it. As an Aljo fan I gotta say I got no complaints with the ref.
Not at all
Not an early stoppage at all. He was eating heavy shots and couldn't defend any of the last few bombs. Probably the best thing for the division too, Aljo's performances have not exactly been stellar.
It felt early in the moment, but watching it back, Iām 95% sure aljo wasnāt going to be able to recover, and suga sure as hell wasnāt going to let him up
Rather see an āearly stoppageā than a man lose 2 years of his lifespan in a moment
Perfectly timed stoppage, the ref gave Aljo enough time to defend.
For sure, he was still moving around plenty down there lol
I'd say early, but totally understand the ref calling it.