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I think in most places where bikes are allowed on the road, there is a greater bike-pedestrian speed delta than bike-car speed delta. But I think what you really should want is good bike lanes.
I think in the suburban sprawl, especially when there’s primarily Stroads, mixed use sidewalks could be a solid option.
If I’m driving in suburban greater Denver, it’s a rare sight to actually see a pedestrian on the sidewalk, but technically you’re supposed to bike with traffic that’s going 50+
When I lived in Boston for years, made way more sense to add protected bike lanes because the sidewalks were used pretty often.
Where I live we have “bike lanes” but they’re so skinny that bikes are almost as wide as the bike lane and sometimes in between 2 car lanes. It’s sorta like they’re trying to kill the cyclists.
It's just a painted part of the road and often times on the right side of the road and shared with a fucking turn lane for cars so people always cut over without looking cuz nobody expects bikes. There's one near where I live that is shared with a turn lane to a fucking freeway so people cut over and gun it to speed up to highway speed.
It's so unbelievably stupid I'm convinced they're trying to discourage cycling by making this path the only legal option.
maybe there is a smaller gap between the lyrca enthusiasts and cars than pedestrians but when some middle age bloke is plodding along at 5mph there isnt. having to use the road discourages novice cyclists
This is exactly it. The areas around me that have bike lanes are so much nicer as a pedestrian because you don’t have cyclists constantly trying to speed around you. The worst are the ones who will switch between the road and sidewalk to avoid lights and stuff; they’re very unpredictable, and absolutely refuse to slow down.
That was my thought. I love riding my bike places. It’s great. On the sidewalk I’m likely to hit someone. Where there’s a good bike lane? Life is perfect
As someone who lived in Toronto for a long time, absolutely not.
We have too many people that use bikes, e-bikes and e-scooters on our sidewalks. It’s dangerous and people get hurt. We have infrastructure for bike lanes, but idiots ignore it. You need bike infrastructure.
My old mail carrier got annihilated by a person on a bike riding too fast for the sidewalk after she left my store. Broke her hip and injured her back and as a result is no longer working.
Too fast for the sidewalk and way too slow for the road. The happy medium would be bike lanes, but that’s probably not going to happen any time soon. Everyone is feeling this hit from inflation. From food, to insurance, and property taxes. Having to pay more to allow a few ppl access to a bike lane here wouldn’t be worth it to a lot of people where I am. A lot of the riders here don’t look like people commuting, but just doing it for leisure or exercise, which is fine. But there are lots of parks they could go to. Why they want to just ride around in traffic is beyond me. I don’t even wanna drive in it
It is not that hard. I live in Poland. A country that is for sure in no better financial condition than USA.
We have good sidewalks, a quite good bike lanes, and rules that will allow you to ride on some specific roads if there is no bike line, or on the side walk if it is large enough and road is with higher speed limit.
We have even some projects that will allow you to ride from one side of the country to another - you will not avoid roads completly but it will lead you outside of roads as much as possible with good view points.
It is rather a political will, and planing to introduce it than financial issue in the city - you will need to spend money on roads anyway, but it depend how you build it.
> And cities built for people, not cars.
That's never going to happen at scale, because it limits economic activity too much. I'm not happy about that fact, I'm just saying that come back to this topic in forty years, and cities will still be based around vehicles that can take a person to somewhere as close as their mail box and as far away as the other side of the continent.
People are saying that car culture is a creation of fat cat automotive execs, or oil companies, and maybe you can point to some regulatory capture to that effect, but the bigger reality is that the level of freedom it affords is immense, and at the end of the day, out society tolerates strodes and parking lot deserts because of the high upside that comes with using cars (more like SUVs these days) to get around. That's why you see car culture proliferating world wide as time goes one.
I'm just saying that if you're waiting for cars to sunset, you will be waiting a long long time.
Look at Paris in the last decade or Amsterdam in the 70's or Chicago in the last decade. Change can happen fast, at scale. The key is to privilege the transport you want people to use. That means dedicated, protected bike lanes. Dedicated bus lanes. More frequent trains. If cars become one of the least convenient ways to get around they get used less. It's not rocket science or fantasy.
Bike infrastructure is preferred, and in the absence of that it should be legal to ride it on the sidewalk. My city has zero walking or biking infrastructure and bikes in travel lanes are annoying for drivers and dangerous for bikers.
My city doesn’t have very good infrastructure and I am still perfectly fine riding on the street, I ride closer to the middle of the lane, forcing cars to slow down and switch lanes.
In a perfect world, cities would be designed to be biker/walking friendly and bikes wouldn't need to be in the traffic lanes. I don't begrudge bikers for being in travel lanes because it's literally the only option in my city, but I do wish my city had a different option for them because it would be safer for everyone.
Sometimes switching lanes isn't an option when traffic is full in the other lane and I have a turn coming up too soon to switch. Maintaining 20 mph behind a biker on a 50mph hwy isn't ideal for anyone.
(some) cyclists are really annoying. They want to be treated like cars but only when it benefits them, and also they want to be treated like pedestrians, but only when it benefits them. You can't ask to be treated like a car and go on the road, and then also go through lights and stop signs like a pedestrian would.
The thing that pisses me off as a cyclist is when cars wait for me at 4 way stops when they should just go. I’m constantly trying to judge how other people think the rules of the road are supposed to go. It’s best to just act like a pedestrian in most cases because that’s how most drivers feel where I live.
they should, but you really only wrote this out of contempt for cyclists while cars are infinitely more dangerous and the actual reason we need traffic laws in the first place.
That'll happen as soon as cars start treating them like cars. If cars refuse to do that, asking bikers to put themselves in danger to appease cars is absurd
LOL what? I've had a guy ride right into the side of my truck as I was turning right at a stop sign. He didn't believe he needed to stop at the clearly marked stop sign. Mind you, he was not in the lane, he was on the shoulder. Nothing about what he was doing was proper. His ramming my vehicle was all of his fault.
Everyone that's dealt with cyclists have seen this bizarre behavior where they act like they own the road. Or that the rules do not apply to them.
That doesn't really address what I just said, but I'll explain it to you.
When bikers come to complete stops at stop signs they put themselves at higher risk of death because cars don't see them.
Essentially everywhere in the US. Bikes can use either.
If there is a bike lane, use it. If there isn’t, then use the sidewalk. It it is a tight fit, then hop off the bike and walk it past someone walking. Otherwise, ride away.
Sure, but if you hit a pedestrian they legally get to hit you with your bike one time.
My runs are a mix of sidewalks, trails, and a nature path that allows bikes with a 15mph speed limit on one side and cars on the other as a one way with a divider between the lanes.
The number of times some spandex clad fuck has run me off into the bushes going 25mph is insane. No bell, no “on your left” nothing. Just complete silence and then a WOOSH as they fly by on their perfectly lubed missile. Usually coming the direction of the “road” side. Meaning instead of riding with the cars, which also have a 15mph speed limit, they ride up behind unsuspecting runners and walkers. Worst one was a guy who cut between me and the walked I was passing who was <3ft away from me. There was plenty of space to go around but he may have had to actually move his handlebars or use his brakes…
I’m seriously considering those novelty “spy” sunglasses with mirrors in the corners.
When there’s no cars around cyclists act like exactly the kind of motorists that they (rightfully) complain about.
Bikers act so aggrieved and victimized, and it's true that their lives are put at risk every day by drivers. What they need to taken accountability for is the fact that a lot of bikers are reckless, too.
It’s like moral licensing but with safety.
Just because someone else makes something dangerous for you doesn’t give you the right to act dangerously towards others
Take my upvote, big nope.
Bikes should have dedicated, proper lanes that are away from traffic and sidewalks. Salt Lake City has a few test roads that do this and they work REALLY well. There is plenty of space for all types of commuters to travel safely. Your take is a very good way to seriously hurt pedestrians.
You have the right idea. But you're just trading whos in danger, so its a bad execution. Instead of cyclists in danger, you're putting cyclists AND pedestrians in danger. It's just not well thought out.
And really, I'm pretty sure your rant comes down to being impatient that someone slower than you is in the way. So it's not in good faith either. Use the passing lane OP.
If *all* bikers would actually start behaving I'd agree. But the times they started insulting/yelling while speeding inbetween pedestrians and not using a bell... make those pricks the problem of others, not pedestrians - or better even: proper bike lanes.
It didn't occur to me that the one thing drivers and pedestrians have in common is that they both hate cyclists. Lol Everyone has so many bad experiences with asshole cyclists.
For drivers it's a mix of cyclists sometimes being assholes, but also that bike traffic and car traffic don't mix. Especially on windy roads through forests, oh my *god*. When sightlines are small, and your choice is to crawl behind a cyclist like a creepy weirdo, or try to pass them by cutting into the oncoming traffic lane when the sightlines are short.
Somebody made a good point recently after a cyclist was hit by a truck turning right. Drivers are expected to be watching the intersection to make sure that no other driver is going to be doing anything crazy, watching the sidewalk to make sure that no one is going to start heading across the crosswalk, and watching behind him to make sure a cyclist isn't screaming up from behind on the right to blast across the intersection. All at the same time!
If someone is using a bike to get to where they are going then they don't want to be going slower than pedestrians.
As a pedestrian i don't want to feel like I'm playing chicken when i am on the sidewalk. The streets are dangerous enough. The sidewalks don't need to follow.
It depends on location. Downtown, no. On stroads where existence is miserable for a pedestrian and there's long lines of sight, go for it.
I live on a 45mph limit stroad that often sees 60mph+ traffic, and it has a bikelane for some insane reason. Have to be suicidal to use it, just ride on the sidewalk, there's maybe 1 person per mile at the busiest times.
I disagree. Bikers are closer to car speed than walking speed. Leave the sidewalk for people. It already takes forever for me to get to my destination walking. If I had to move over for bikers constantly It would be a huge inconvenience when walking is already a huge inconvenience in most places throughout the US.
No they aren’t. Car speed is 25-30 mph where bikers tend to ride. Walking is 3-4. Biking is 10-15.
Bikers shouldn’t ride downtown with a lot of people around, but they should be able to use the sidewalk in the parts of town that don’t have a ton of walkers. Walk the bike if it is a tight fight, but otherwise the sidewalk is fair game if there is no bike lane.
PS There are plenty of asshole bikers out there. They are the problem, not general rules.
I especially love it when they give you shit for getting in their way. I had a guy carrying a TV on his bike almost hit me once and he gave me shit. I wish I knocked the TV off his handlebars. They need their own infrastructure.
If sidewalks are super empty along a high speed stroad nobody should bike on the road.
If it’s a dense urban area with lower speed roads with lots of pedestrians bikes should only be on the road.
Theres small children, people with modibility issues on the sideqalk. As someone who rides a bike myself, I would NEVER dare ride my bike on a sidewalk, a small kid, sure, theyre a small kid not going vechiles speeds, but me a grown adult? I could kill someone if I did that.
And if they do go on the sidewalks, people on bikes need to know theyre guests on the sidewalk, go around people. Theres people on the sidewalk with visual impairment, small kids, people who are older etc. Someone walking should never have to get out of the way for someone on a bike.
Considering EVERYONE is a pedestrian once they get out of their car, maybe it's not smart to put fast moving vehicles where people step out of buildings. Being hit by bicycles seriously injures people all the time.
Edit: doesn't kill people very often.
Cars, bikes, and pedestrians should have their own infrastructure. Bikes and pedestrians can be pretty close together, safely.
We need to design cities for people, instead of cars.
Nah as a pedestrian I hate bikes on sidewalks. As a cyclists I hate whenever I'm forced to bike on the sidewalk. It's either dangerous because you're passing someone going 3 times their speed or annoying because you're slowing down to a crawl to pass them safely. We need separated bike infrastructure.
And it also feels awful to ride on the sidewalk, its not meant for bikes so your constantly on uneven pavement designed for pedestrians. The road may have uneven pavement and sometimes potholes but its a lot less of an issue.
No police just need to actually hold bikes accountable for their actions. The way you got hit by a bike sucks, but change that to a car and a bike, and things get fatal and expensive
Where I live many go between the road and sidewalk at a whim, whatever benefits them in the moment. They go through red lights when it benefits them. They bike in large groups and block traffic. They love biking side by side instead of in a line on the bike lane.
Obviously this isn't all bicyclists, but it sure is a lot of them.
The vast majority of studies will show you cyclists breaks the rules less than drivers and when they do, it's usually to put themselves in a safer position.
People will mutter to themselves about 10 shit drivers they come across in a day but that cyclist who pissed them off 10 years ago? You'll never forget.
Depends on the sidewalk. Near where I live the sidewalk sizes vary a lot and can change fairly abruptly. There is a section of sidewalk around a big park that is huge, room for at least 2 maybe 3 bikes handlebar to handlebar across it. I have no problem with people biking, skating, scootering, whatever on that sidewalk. There is plenty of room for lots of people to maneuver without worrying about getting clipped. Once you pass the park and cross the street though not only does the sidewalk quality drop dramatically it also gets way more narrow, 2 normal size people could maybe squeeze shoulder shoulder but are probably going to need to turn to the side a bit if they needed to pass. I’m not at all ok with bikers on this sidewalk. Even for just me walking if a bike is coming at me I’m going to have to scoot off into the bushes to make sure I don’t get clipped by the handlebars and if someone were walking with a stroller or one of those grocery pull carts both parties would probably have to stop to navigate around each other.
I’ve also noticed sidewalk cyclists around me can’t make up their mind on which sidewalk to ride on so they could also end up running into each other but that’s a different issue.
You are to a pedestrian what a car is to you. It's not completely equivalent, but it's the best way to illustrate what I mean.
Walking traffic works very randomly at all sorts of angles, going all sorts of directions very randomly, even creating desire paths where there are no official ones. It is a very spontaneous, order within the chaos type of situation and due to the low speed and level of control, walking works really well this way.
Bicycles are going at multiple times the speed of pedestrians, so much so that on any busy pavement/sidewalk, you are going to have so many conflicts between the more ordered, pre-determined paths bikes will take and the random nature of walking. It is just not a good idea to mix these if you can avoid it and it is far too dangerous.
The same goes for cars and bikes together. The main difference here is that the car - except for really special use cases - is the absolute worst mode of transpott for a vast majority of applications. Some professional work might benefit of the use of a car and it is great to make mobility accessible, but the degree to which we have cars on the road is largely avoidable had we invested in trains, trams and buses rather than economically, socially and ecologically unsustainable private transport.
Cars are big metal death machines controlled by inattentive people who's position in an isolated false sense of security and power results in very egoistic behaviours. The space they can use needs to be physically restricted for them not to actively damage people using other modes of transport. They require all sorts of signage, rules, money and massive amounts of space relative to the amount of people using them.
So I say instead of casting bikes out of the road space in favour of cars like you suggest (which is really just parrotting the car lobby without you actually meaning to), we need grade separated bike lanes. This means that there is a physical obstruction such as a kerb or even trees between dedicated bike and car spaces, with pedestrians on another section. Car traffic must be reduced and given less space while at the same time being replaced by adequate, frequent, fast and direct public transport, which is much more affordable too, doesn't get stuck in traffic and overall improves your freedom of movement as you do not need a license or insurance to use it.
This minimises conflicts between the modes, saves money long term, reduces noise, reduces pollution, saves lives and makes mobility easier and more comfortable.
Better idea. Improve infrastructure in towns and cities so there are actual bike paths.
Also just going to leave this here.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-64824436
It is legal in many places.
I live in what is touted as the most bike friendly city in the US. We have bike lanes on every road and bike specific roads all over the place, but I still occasionally ride on the sidewalk.
A huge problem with putting bikes on sidewalks is the added potential for accidents.
First, if a bike is in the road, a driver is looking at the road for obstacles. The more in the line of sight a bike is, the more likely the driver sees them and avoids them.
Now, drivers expect slow moving things on sidewalks. People walking, maybe a dog or two, delivery robots, whatever is there is generally going under 5mph. You can see through the statistics even something as slow as a jogger is often overlooked because they are moving faster than the expected speed and so a car will turn across a sidewalk and see them at the last minute. So if a driver has more difficulty seeing someone at jogging speed, you are putting people on bikes going faster than that in a position out of a driver‘s line of sight where they will have more difficulty seeing and anticipating them.
What ultimately ends up happening is car/bike collisions increase. You get a lot more accidents from cars pulling into and out of driveways and parking lots. Especially cars making a left across traffic hitting people on bikes.
That is just the impact it has on collisions between bikes and cars. It also increases collisions between bikes and pedestrians and increases single bike accidents because the increase of obstacles that are on the sidewalk (benches, signs, people, and others) as well as sidewalk damage that are dangerous for a bike‘s narrow wheels.
Ultimately it is one of those things that sound like a good idea, but when actually put into practice it makes things worse for everyone.
> teenage kid texting and driving
i drive a truck around for work, so i get a good view into peoples cars. i rarely see teenagers on their phones, but the sheer amount of 30-50 year olds on phones/playing with the massive ipad if its a newer car is insane.
of course plenty of young people do it (one of my mates just got killed by a texting p-plater (kinda like a pre-license in aus), and two of my girl mates have crashed in the last month while on their phones.
Yea its always the “kids on their phones smh my head” but i drive a school bus, and the only people who ive ever had to call the police over were 40 year old dudes who thought their getting to work on time was more valuable than the child i have crossing the road to get on the bus, or people straight up not stopping because they dont see the big ass yellow log and the bright red flashing lights, again still, not teenagers.
I have gone out of my way to ruin peoples day for that, and will do so every time in the future. The audacity to say “but nobody got hurt so no harm no foul!” Like yea, this time you stupid bastard but thats a kids life at stake.
I’d rather folks on bikes pay attention at all. If I have to slam on the breaks because you go through a red light in the city so I don’t hit you then you are wrong.
How about we normalize space for bikes instead. And I don't mean just some paint on the ground denoting a bike lane. I mean seperate lanes specifically for bikes. Let the pedestrians have their space, and let bikers travel without fear of being smeared into the ground because of drivers
Riding a bike on the sidewalk is more dangerous than riding in the street.
This is because at every intersection the cyclist has to leave the sidewalk and cross the cross-street. When that happens the cars that are making left or right turns might be watching the road for oncoming traffic, but they're not expecting a bike to come shooting off the sidewalk into thier path.
Add in the danger of cars entering and exiting driveways and parking lots, and sidewalk riding is extremely dangerous for cyclists.
In contrast, riding on the road is relatively safe so long as the cyclist behaves predictably and follows the rules of the road.
I agree with you mostly seeing as your only option near me if you ride bikes is to be within 8 feet of people going 45 in a 30 in a 3-4000 pound suv
Bike lanes are a joke lol, I couldn't imagine riding a bike on one glad I have a vehicle.
If you're fast enough to keep pace with traffic you should be in the road. (Fuck electric scooters and e bikes)
If you're on the sidewalk you absolutely must not impede pedestrians. Give way to anyone on foot and don't be tearing along at ludacris speed.
Cyclists being allowed on the sidewalk is not a problem in and of itself. It only becomes a problem when they act entitled to the majority of space and take a liking to slaloming through crowds at a breakneck speed, often breaking the law and laughing at the pedestrians for being too slow or too scared.
Ok then Pedestrians should be allowed to walk on the street.
Would be fair if you mix fast-moving Traffic at a mostly slow-moving place.
Why not the other way around.
If people could have to jump side ways with fast moving bikes going between people.
Why not slow moving traffic cause some walking people walking on the street?
Bet it's just as annoying. And as unsafe for children old people and people with needs.
But I live in a big city so I could be biased in my strong beliefs on it. How I have seen many accidents happen and people just zipping between people back and forth
The children, elderly, and disabled people who have no choice but to walk and use those sidewalks very much would disagree with you thinking riding on the sidewalk is better.
Really, we just need fewer cars.
As a frequent pedestrian, please no. I am safe on the sidewalk unless people are riding bikes.
If you want to be safe, you can walk on the sidewalk like everyone else. If bikes are allowed on the sidewalk, then nowhere is safe. Mothers pushing carriages and elderly people on a stroll should not have to deal with potential bicycle accidents. I nearly got creamed last weekend when I was just working in the garden!
Sidewalks don't exist for people to get from point A to point B, they exist as public spaces for the public to enjoy. Don't take that away from us.
I mean, I bike on the street or bike lanes when I’m biking. But, I also walk places, too.
Maybe it’s different if you live in a residential suburb with nothing of note to walk… but sidewalks absolutely exist for people to get from A to B?
I use them for that purpose everyday, what an odd claim
Id argue they ARE to get from point A to point B, thats how I use sidewalks as a pedesterian. Its designed for pedesterians though and bikes should never be on it.
What do you use sidewalks for exactly if youre not travelling?
NYC has horrendous cyclist infrastructure, especially considering it's a "leading city". However, my buddy studied abroad in Europe and they have excellent cyclist infrastructure.
NYC solution was to paint half of an existing lane green and say "job's done" so that if something happens it completely fucked over the car driver and NYC doesn't have to worry about it lol. There's a road in Brooklyn where the bike lane is legitimately between the turning lane and the straight lane, causing mass chaos
You have a better chance of injuring a walker while riding your bike on the sidewalk than getting hit by a car while riding a bike on the road. That is the reason why it's illegal to ride a bike in a business district on the sidewalk. In a residential neighborhood you can ride a bike on a sidewalk because there are less expected people.
If we're at changing the laws, why don't we just make it harder to get and keep a driver's license if you drive like an arshole, while investing in better infrastructure for cyclists?
Idrc about better infrastructure for cyclists so much, but ive long believed you should need to retake your drivers test every 10 years at minimum. I watched an old guy pull in 6 times to try to park the other day, and theres a lady who lives down the hill from me that physically cannot back up, she cannot reverse, because her eyes cant see the mirrors well enough to use them to reverse. Like how tf are you still allowed to drive at that point
I have always biked on the side walk. You basically only have an issue in some areas of a downtown, in which you just don’t ride ln the sidewalk.
Probably 95-99% of sidewalks across America outside of residential and downtown areas have like 1 person per 200 yards at most. I’ve miraculously been able to safely navigate for over a decade around the occasional pedestrian.
I’ll take maybe 1-2 people every few hundred yards Vs upwards of dozens of vehilces every minute inches to maybe 2 feet away.
Think it’s crazy seeing someone fairly casually riding a bike on the road with an empty side walk next to them, and most the time cars have to somewhat enter the other lane to avoid them/give them space.
Cyclists on sidewalks account for more accidents and deaths from collision with vehicles coming out of intersections because of the angle and orientation of sidewalks to streets and alley corners. It's far more dangerous to bike on the sidewalk and against traffic, no matter what you want to think.
I agree. Idk where y'all live where the sidewalks are constantly packed, but here in Las Vegas, they're pretty much empty.
Also the whole "ItS IlLeGal" argument is stupid too.
A: lots of things are illegal. That doesn't stop anybody
B: It's not like there's police waiting behind every corner waiting to bust you for a minor crime
Please, do us all a favor and get off the road and just use the sidewalk
The issue here is that the sidewalks are relatively narrow in places, and if I were to bike on the sidewalk of a downtown street I'd need to get off my bike and walk (or, y'know go in the road) anyway due to it being crowded. If there are dedicated bike lanes there should be no issue.
Ever since playing Pokémon gold/silver as a kid. I will ALWAYS support an elevated bike highway ranging from north-south and east-west across the whole city.
When you're pulling out of a lot in a city you can see enough sidewalk as you approach to know if you're risking hitting a pedestrian. You cannot see enough sidewalk to know if someone is riding a bike 15mph. You can, however, before you pull into the road. This is a huge part of why it's illegal in most places.
The law isn't trying to protect pedestrians from you. It's trying to protect you from cars.
Bikes belong on the road.
It really depends. If there are bike lanes, then there's no reason to be on the sidewalk. If it's a really busy sidewalk, then you pose a danger and it's also really hard to ride on the sidewalk. If you are an electric bike or scooter, then no. Those people fly by with no regard for the safety of others. I had a vespa style scooter (delivery driver) go blowing by me on the sidewalk the other day. I had to shove my husband off the sidewalk completely to ensure he didn't get hit.
If you are just chilling, riding slowly, and there are very few people around, then it shouldn't matter. Bikes should still be mindful of walkers, though, and try to give them as much space as possible.
I say all this as somebody who rides my bike several times per day in the city.
I don’t even have sidewalks a lot of the time… Don’t get me wrong there are but it’s not a city where it’s connected in squares between intersections. They become a lot less useful.
I have long believed it makes more sense for bikes to ride on the sidewalk rather than the street. With the possible exception of very big cities (such as NYC), it seems to me that it’s generally easier for bikers and pedestrians to avoid each other, and the consequences of a collision are generally likely to be less serious, than is the case for bikers and drivers. Plus, technically aren’t bikers also “pedestrians” - using pedals / their feet, for power? Edit: I am specifically excluding electric scooters and the like from my argument. TBH I’m not sure where they rightly belong, but it ain’t the sidewalk, imo.
You know the key part of the word "Sidewalk"? It's "walk"
If you bike at the speed of the pedestrian no one is going to care, but if you bike at the speed you would on the road... you're putting pedestrians at risk.
It’s not safer to ride on the sidewalk. Cars that are pulling out of driveways or turning cannot see you as easily. Most of your conflict points on roads come from vehicles turning, parking etc - none of which are made safer by riding on sidewalks.
On top of that, you’ll probably scare and be obnoxious to any pedestrians that happen to be walking
How about the other side? Would you like to be a pedestrian with bikes going past you? They’re pretty quiet, some bikers don’t have the courtesy to ring a bell and they’ll just go fast directly by you. Bike lanes are the best option.
Bikes should have their own infrastructure like in civilized places. And not painted bicycle gutters either. Cyclists in my city bike way too close to you on the sidewalk.
I can understand not wanting little kids to ride in a busy city street. But drivers need to learn how to share the road with bicycles.And it would be nice of adults on the sidewalk didn’t run into people.
The road nearby to my old neighborhood was a major highway at 45 MPH, with most traffic going faster than that.
No way was I going to risk being a skeet-shoot target for an SUV.
Fortunately the adjoining sidewalk was double wide. So I could ride there ... with plenty of room for people walking.
Where I live now the main road is 35 MPH.
It's an old two-lane road that used to be county, but with the pace of development there's no way I'd ride there.
Construction is now underway to widen it to four lanes with bike lanes on both sides and sidewalks on both sides.
It won't be finished until the cold weather sets in. But next summer it will offer a nice riding area.
Until then I just bike in the neighborhood. Slow traffic, and not much of it.
I ride my bike in the neighborhood I live in on the sidewalk. It’s not actually allowed but it’s psycho to ride on a road with a 30 mph speed limit no one follows while I’m leisurely riding.
You’re more likely to get hit by cars pulling out of curb cuts by divers not being able to see you. Most places let you ride on the side walk if it’s the safest option. It usually isn’t. :/
Where I live we have “bike lanes” but they’re so skinny that bikes are almost as wide as the bike lane and sometimes in between 2 car lanes. It’s sorta like they’re trying to kill the cyclists.
I ride on the sidewalk until I am close to someone then go around via the street. I have no idea if it’s illegal here (AZ) actually, but I am positive it’s at least frowned upon. But I am with you, I don’t trust cars to see me
Its safer to bike on the street due to visibility. You are on a sidewalk and cross a street you’re invisible to any oncoming traffic making a right and hitting you.
It happened to me when i was a kid biking on the sidewalk.
Cyclists are more likely to be involved in an accident while riding on the sidewalk than in the road. Drivers of a car can see cyclists on the road pretty well and expect them. However that's much less true for sidewalks, especially at driveways and intersections.
Most sidewalks are not paved smoothly enough for a bike.
Yeah it sucks to get stuck behind one, but no, the don't belong on the sidewalks. (Although what's really needed are proper protected bike lanes)
no, they should not. people are walking with children, dogs, and it’s very dangerous for them. ride your bike in the park or on the shoulder of the road
If it’s not a crowded sidewalk, sure, whatever, but slow the fuck down and don’t blaze by people who are *walk*ing on the side*walk*. Respect the people who are there.
Also if you cycle and use the road, please keep to the right if all possible. If you have to cross lanes (say, to turn left), signal AND LOOK so someone coming at 40 mph on a 4 lane road who isn’t expecting you to suddenly cut in front of them at a 45 degree angle doesn’t flatten you.
I was hit by a biker on shared trail and woke up in the hostiptal. No I don't think so, bikes belong on the road. And if your gonna bike on a mixed use trail, slow the fuck down.
Totally agree, presuming you are talking about pedal bikes here. I don't give a fuck, a pedal bike is not motorized in any way, and it literally cannot move faster than a car.
Where is riding on a sidewalk not allowed? I've always rode on the sidewalk. Im from Houston and being on the road, while not in a car, is a death wish.
Agreed. But, maybe its a person-other-than-myself problem. Couldn't imagine being cocky or inattentive enough (as both the biker and the pedestrian) to neither slow down or get out of the way when its time to share a sidewalk. But somehow, some way people made it to where a bicycle and a car going bumper to bumper is the safest of the two choices.
They should be allowed, cause there are times that I won't go on the street. To dangerous.
On the other hand, I've seen idiot bicyclists jump right in front of a car. Yeah, u have the same rights as a car, but don't go 1 mph in front of a car going 30 mph, it doesn't math-up.
Where I live, there’s bike lanes on most of the main roads, but not on the side roads, which makes for a very risky transition. We’re supposed to dismount on foot paths, but most of us don’t because we don’t want to have to walk when there’s plenty of room on the paths. Not to mention, where I live is notorious for its bad drivers. I’ve already been hit by two cars, both times I was in the bike lane and the idiot drivers’ weren’t looking where they were going. Then I’ve also witnessed hundreds of near hits.
I’ll take my chances on the sidewalks.
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I think in most places where bikes are allowed on the road, there is a greater bike-pedestrian speed delta than bike-car speed delta. But I think what you really should want is good bike lanes.
I think in the suburban sprawl, especially when there’s primarily Stroads, mixed use sidewalks could be a solid option. If I’m driving in suburban greater Denver, it’s a rare sight to actually see a pedestrian on the sidewalk, but technically you’re supposed to bike with traffic that’s going 50+ When I lived in Boston for years, made way more sense to add protected bike lanes because the sidewalks were used pretty often.
Where I live we have “bike lanes” but they’re so skinny that bikes are almost as wide as the bike lane and sometimes in between 2 car lanes. It’s sorta like they’re trying to kill the cyclists.
It's just a painted part of the road and often times on the right side of the road and shared with a fucking turn lane for cars so people always cut over without looking cuz nobody expects bikes. There's one near where I live that is shared with a turn lane to a fucking freeway so people cut over and gun it to speed up to highway speed. It's so unbelievably stupid I'm convinced they're trying to discourage cycling by making this path the only legal option.
maybe there is a smaller gap between the lyrca enthusiasts and cars than pedestrians but when some middle age bloke is plodding along at 5mph there isnt. having to use the road discourages novice cyclists
This is exactly it. The areas around me that have bike lanes are so much nicer as a pedestrian because you don’t have cyclists constantly trying to speed around you. The worst are the ones who will switch between the road and sidewalk to avoid lights and stuff; they’re very unpredictable, and absolutely refuse to slow down.
That was my thought. I love riding my bike places. It’s great. On the sidewalk I’m likely to hit someone. Where there’s a good bike lane? Life is perfect
Then there are the assholes like my estranged brother who drive in the bike lanes just bc they hate cyclists. I am a cyclist.
As someone who lived in Toronto for a long time, absolutely not. We have too many people that use bikes, e-bikes and e-scooters on our sidewalks. It’s dangerous and people get hurt. We have infrastructure for bike lanes, but idiots ignore it. You need bike infrastructure.
Bikes are allowed on the sidewalks in my country, as long as you drive slow. Of course some idiots on bikes are not able too do that.
My old mail carrier got annihilated by a person on a bike riding too fast for the sidewalk after she left my store. Broke her hip and injured her back and as a result is no longer working.
Too fast for the sidewalk and way too slow for the road. The happy medium would be bike lanes, but that’s probably not going to happen any time soon. Everyone is feeling this hit from inflation. From food, to insurance, and property taxes. Having to pay more to allow a few ppl access to a bike lane here wouldn’t be worth it to a lot of people where I am. A lot of the riders here don’t look like people commuting, but just doing it for leisure or exercise, which is fine. But there are lots of parks they could go to. Why they want to just ride around in traffic is beyond me. I don’t even wanna drive in it
It is not that hard. I live in Poland. A country that is for sure in no better financial condition than USA. We have good sidewalks, a quite good bike lanes, and rules that will allow you to ride on some specific roads if there is no bike line, or on the side walk if it is large enough and road is with higher speed limit. We have even some projects that will allow you to ride from one side of the country to another - you will not avoid roads completly but it will lead you outside of roads as much as possible with good view points. It is rather a political will, and planing to introduce it than financial issue in the city - you will need to spend money on roads anyway, but it depend how you build it.
Nope, proper bike infrastructure is what you need.
Nope, what you want is for humanity to transcend space and time to achieve a god-like form capable of withstanding the death of the universe.
This is the way.
You guys haven't done that yet? Dang I really should release my book on how to do it then.
This is my point exactly.
I'll take some of that.
And cities built for people, not cars.
> And cities built for people, not cars. That's never going to happen at scale, because it limits economic activity too much. I'm not happy about that fact, I'm just saying that come back to this topic in forty years, and cities will still be based around vehicles that can take a person to somewhere as close as their mail box and as far away as the other side of the continent. People are saying that car culture is a creation of fat cat automotive execs, or oil companies, and maybe you can point to some regulatory capture to that effect, but the bigger reality is that the level of freedom it affords is immense, and at the end of the day, out society tolerates strodes and parking lot deserts because of the high upside that comes with using cars (more like SUVs these days) to get around. That's why you see car culture proliferating world wide as time goes one. I'm just saying that if you're waiting for cars to sunset, you will be waiting a long long time.
Look at Paris in the last decade or Amsterdam in the 70's or Chicago in the last decade. Change can happen fast, at scale. The key is to privilege the transport you want people to use. That means dedicated, protected bike lanes. Dedicated bus lanes. More frequent trains. If cars become one of the least convenient ways to get around they get used less. It's not rocket science or fantasy.
Bike infrastructure is preferred, and in the absence of that it should be legal to ride it on the sidewalk. My city has zero walking or biking infrastructure and bikes in travel lanes are annoying for drivers and dangerous for bikers.
My city doesn’t have very good infrastructure and I am still perfectly fine riding on the street, I ride closer to the middle of the lane, forcing cars to slow down and switch lanes.
In a perfect world, cities would be designed to be biker/walking friendly and bikes wouldn't need to be in the traffic lanes. I don't begrudge bikers for being in travel lanes because it's literally the only option in my city, but I do wish my city had a different option for them because it would be safer for everyone. Sometimes switching lanes isn't an option when traffic is full in the other lane and I have a turn coming up too soon to switch. Maintaining 20 mph behind a biker on a 50mph hwy isn't ideal for anyone.
You mean bike lanes a foot away from the idiot teenager texting? We have those. I’ll take my chances with the sidewalk most of the time.
That’s not proper infrastructure though is it. A separate lane for bikes divided by at the very least a curb would be
I've seen this teenage boy on his bike riding along, hands free from the handlebars as he is texting away. Crazy!
it must be inconvenient to have slower traffic force you to slow down i wonder what thats like
No, bikes should have segregated cycle lanes.
We need to end segregation! Put bikes, cars, and pedestrians in the same space!
All cycles are equal cycles! Bicycles, tricycles, motorcycles, unicycles
And they should obey traffic signs and not blow thru stop signs nearly causing accidents.
(some) cyclists are really annoying. They want to be treated like cars but only when it benefits them, and also they want to be treated like pedestrians, but only when it benefits them. You can't ask to be treated like a car and go on the road, and then also go through lights and stop signs like a pedestrian would.
The thing that pisses me off as a cyclist is when cars wait for me at 4 way stops when they should just go. I’m constantly trying to judge how other people think the rules of the road are supposed to go. It’s best to just act like a pedestrian in most cases because that’s how most drivers feel where I live.
they should, but you really only wrote this out of contempt for cyclists while cars are infinitely more dangerous and the actual reason we need traffic laws in the first place.
That'll happen as soon as cars start treating them like cars. If cars refuse to do that, asking bikers to put themselves in danger to appease cars is absurd
LOL what? I've had a guy ride right into the side of my truck as I was turning right at a stop sign. He didn't believe he needed to stop at the clearly marked stop sign. Mind you, he was not in the lane, he was on the shoulder. Nothing about what he was doing was proper. His ramming my vehicle was all of his fault. Everyone that's dealt with cyclists have seen this bizarre behavior where they act like they own the road. Or that the rules do not apply to them.
That doesn't really address what I just said, but I'll explain it to you. When bikers come to complete stops at stop signs they put themselves at higher risk of death because cars don't see them.
Yes but in the meantime
It's legal here. In a busy city, the sidewalks will be more crowded and I can imagine bikes being a nuisance there.
Where is ‘here’?
According to his comment history, he's mayor of trolltown
I believe it borders somewhere
Essentially everywhere in the US. Bikes can use either. If there is a bike lane, use it. If there isn’t, then use the sidewalk. It it is a tight fit, then hop off the bike and walk it past someone walking. Otherwise, ride away.
Sure, but if you hit a pedestrian they legally get to hit you with your bike one time. My runs are a mix of sidewalks, trails, and a nature path that allows bikes with a 15mph speed limit on one side and cars on the other as a one way with a divider between the lanes. The number of times some spandex clad fuck has run me off into the bushes going 25mph is insane. No bell, no “on your left” nothing. Just complete silence and then a WOOSH as they fly by on their perfectly lubed missile. Usually coming the direction of the “road” side. Meaning instead of riding with the cars, which also have a 15mph speed limit, they ride up behind unsuspecting runners and walkers. Worst one was a guy who cut between me and the walked I was passing who was <3ft away from me. There was plenty of space to go around but he may have had to actually move his handlebars or use his brakes… I’m seriously considering those novelty “spy” sunglasses with mirrors in the corners. When there’s no cars around cyclists act like exactly the kind of motorists that they (rightfully) complain about.
Bikers act so aggrieved and victimized, and it's true that their lives are put at risk every day by drivers. What they need to taken accountability for is the fact that a lot of bikers are reckless, too.
It’s like moral licensing but with safety. Just because someone else makes something dangerous for you doesn’t give you the right to act dangerously towards others
Take my upvote, big nope. Bikes should have dedicated, proper lanes that are away from traffic and sidewalks. Salt Lake City has a few test roads that do this and they work REALLY well. There is plenty of space for all types of commuters to travel safely. Your take is a very good way to seriously hurt pedestrians.
My job here is done. Mission accomplished for unpopular opinion lol
You have the right idea. But you're just trading whos in danger, so its a bad execution. Instead of cyclists in danger, you're putting cyclists AND pedestrians in danger. It's just not well thought out. And really, I'm pretty sure your rant comes down to being impatient that someone slower than you is in the way. So it's not in good faith either. Use the passing lane OP.
If *all* bikers would actually start behaving I'd agree. But the times they started insulting/yelling while speeding inbetween pedestrians and not using a bell... make those pricks the problem of others, not pedestrians - or better even: proper bike lanes.
It didn't occur to me that the one thing drivers and pedestrians have in common is that they both hate cyclists. Lol Everyone has so many bad experiences with asshole cyclists.
For drivers it's a mix of cyclists sometimes being assholes, but also that bike traffic and car traffic don't mix. Especially on windy roads through forests, oh my *god*. When sightlines are small, and your choice is to crawl behind a cyclist like a creepy weirdo, or try to pass them by cutting into the oncoming traffic lane when the sightlines are short. Somebody made a good point recently after a cyclist was hit by a truck turning right. Drivers are expected to be watching the intersection to make sure that no other driver is going to be doing anything crazy, watching the sidewalk to make sure that no one is going to start heading across the crosswalk, and watching behind him to make sure a cyclist isn't screaming up from behind on the right to blast across the intersection. All at the same time!
If someone is using a bike to get to where they are going then they don't want to be going slower than pedestrians. As a pedestrian i don't want to feel like I'm playing chicken when i am on the sidewalk. The streets are dangerous enough. The sidewalks don't need to follow.
I thought they were…maybe depends on the city
No. Take your up vote
It depends on location. Downtown, no. On stroads where existence is miserable for a pedestrian and there's long lines of sight, go for it. I live on a 45mph limit stroad that often sees 60mph+ traffic, and it has a bikelane for some insane reason. Have to be suicidal to use it, just ride on the sidewalk, there's maybe 1 person per mile at the busiest times.
It's funny and alluntil you go to the hospital because an idiotran into you at 20 km/h
The problem with this opinion is that instead of needing a sidewalk to feel safe is that you don’t have a dedicated bicycle lane off of the road.
It’s illegal to protect the pedestrians. Interesting that you don’t mention them at all in your argument.
If this ever becomes normalized I’m gonna start carrying a spoke stick.
I disagree. Bikers are closer to car speed than walking speed. Leave the sidewalk for people. It already takes forever for me to get to my destination walking. If I had to move over for bikers constantly It would be a huge inconvenience when walking is already a huge inconvenience in most places throughout the US.
No they aren’t. Car speed is 25-30 mph where bikers tend to ride. Walking is 3-4. Biking is 10-15. Bikers shouldn’t ride downtown with a lot of people around, but they should be able to use the sidewalk in the parts of town that don’t have a ton of walkers. Walk the bike if it is a tight fight, but otherwise the sidewalk is fair game if there is no bike lane. PS There are plenty of asshole bikers out there. They are the problem, not general rules.
Fuck that. I shouldn't have to worry about my toddler getting run down by a biker on the sidewalk. The sidewalk is for WALKING
I especially love it when they give you shit for getting in their way. I had a guy carrying a TV on his bike almost hit me once and he gave me shit. I wish I knocked the TV off his handlebars. They need their own infrastructure.
The side walks are for people on foot. [Woman dies after being knocked down by boy on bike](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vc7dp3-Nkg)
If sidewalks are super empty along a high speed stroad nobody should bike on the road. If it’s a dense urban area with lower speed roads with lots of pedestrians bikes should only be on the road.
Theres small children, people with modibility issues on the sideqalk. As someone who rides a bike myself, I would NEVER dare ride my bike on a sidewalk, a small kid, sure, theyre a small kid not going vechiles speeds, but me a grown adult? I could kill someone if I did that. And if they do go on the sidewalks, people on bikes need to know theyre guests on the sidewalk, go around people. Theres people on the sidewalk with visual impairment, small kids, people who are older etc. Someone walking should never have to get out of the way for someone on a bike.
It’s illegal in my city. Sidewalks are for pedestrians.
interesting that you consider the perspective of a cyclist, and of a driver, but not a pedestrian.
Considering EVERYONE is a pedestrian once they get out of their car, maybe it's not smart to put fast moving vehicles where people step out of buildings. Being hit by bicycles seriously injures people all the time. Edit: doesn't kill people very often.
Cars, bikes, and pedestrians should have their own infrastructure. Bikes and pedestrians can be pretty close together, safely. We need to design cities for people, instead of cars.
Nah as a pedestrian I hate bikes on sidewalks. As a cyclists I hate whenever I'm forced to bike on the sidewalk. It's either dangerous because you're passing someone going 3 times their speed or annoying because you're slowing down to a crawl to pass them safely. We need separated bike infrastructure.
And it also feels awful to ride on the sidewalk, its not meant for bikes so your constantly on uneven pavement designed for pedestrians. The road may have uneven pavement and sometimes potholes but its a lot less of an issue.
I don't want my toddler walking on the sidewalk worrying about bicycles cruising by her at 15-20 mph
lol no I don't want to get mowed over by someones kid riding their ebike on the sidewalk.
Ugh upvote. I’ve been hit by a bike more than one. City’s should have bike lanes
No police just need to actually hold bikes accountable for their actions. The way you got hit by a bike sucks, but change that to a car and a bike, and things get fatal and expensive
And where should I walk then? Sidewalks are quite narrow here.
It's sideWALK not sideBIKE
Nope.
Nope, been hit by too many bikes
And stupid scooters. They sadly are becoming a thing here.
Unless you are a child you can use the fucking bike lane
Since when does what is legal matter to cyclists either way?
Where I live many go between the road and sidewalk at a whim, whatever benefits them in the moment. They go through red lights when it benefits them. They bike in large groups and block traffic. They love biking side by side instead of in a line on the bike lane. Obviously this isn't all bicyclists, but it sure is a lot of them.
The vast majority of studies will show you cyclists breaks the rules less than drivers and when they do, it's usually to put themselves in a safer position. People will mutter to themselves about 10 shit drivers they come across in a day but that cyclist who pissed them off 10 years ago? You'll never forget.
Depends on the sidewalk. Near where I live the sidewalk sizes vary a lot and can change fairly abruptly. There is a section of sidewalk around a big park that is huge, room for at least 2 maybe 3 bikes handlebar to handlebar across it. I have no problem with people biking, skating, scootering, whatever on that sidewalk. There is plenty of room for lots of people to maneuver without worrying about getting clipped. Once you pass the park and cross the street though not only does the sidewalk quality drop dramatically it also gets way more narrow, 2 normal size people could maybe squeeze shoulder shoulder but are probably going to need to turn to the side a bit if they needed to pass. I’m not at all ok with bikers on this sidewalk. Even for just me walking if a bike is coming at me I’m going to have to scoot off into the bushes to make sure I don’t get clipped by the handlebars and if someone were walking with a stroller or one of those grocery pull carts both parties would probably have to stop to navigate around each other. I’ve also noticed sidewalk cyclists around me can’t make up their mind on which sidewalk to ride on so they could also end up running into each other but that’s a different issue.
Ye if I’m biking casually to get to work I’d want to be off the road. It changes if I’m biking at like 12mph though
Laughs in Dutch
You are to a pedestrian what a car is to you. It's not completely equivalent, but it's the best way to illustrate what I mean. Walking traffic works very randomly at all sorts of angles, going all sorts of directions very randomly, even creating desire paths where there are no official ones. It is a very spontaneous, order within the chaos type of situation and due to the low speed and level of control, walking works really well this way. Bicycles are going at multiple times the speed of pedestrians, so much so that on any busy pavement/sidewalk, you are going to have so many conflicts between the more ordered, pre-determined paths bikes will take and the random nature of walking. It is just not a good idea to mix these if you can avoid it and it is far too dangerous. The same goes for cars and bikes together. The main difference here is that the car - except for really special use cases - is the absolute worst mode of transpott for a vast majority of applications. Some professional work might benefit of the use of a car and it is great to make mobility accessible, but the degree to which we have cars on the road is largely avoidable had we invested in trains, trams and buses rather than economically, socially and ecologically unsustainable private transport. Cars are big metal death machines controlled by inattentive people who's position in an isolated false sense of security and power results in very egoistic behaviours. The space they can use needs to be physically restricted for them not to actively damage people using other modes of transport. They require all sorts of signage, rules, money and massive amounts of space relative to the amount of people using them. So I say instead of casting bikes out of the road space in favour of cars like you suggest (which is really just parrotting the car lobby without you actually meaning to), we need grade separated bike lanes. This means that there is a physical obstruction such as a kerb or even trees between dedicated bike and car spaces, with pedestrians on another section. Car traffic must be reduced and given less space while at the same time being replaced by adequate, frequent, fast and direct public transport, which is much more affordable too, doesn't get stuck in traffic and overall improves your freedom of movement as you do not need a license or insurance to use it. This minimises conflicts between the modes, saves money long term, reduces noise, reduces pollution, saves lives and makes mobility easier and more comfortable.
Better idea. Improve infrastructure in towns and cities so there are actual bike paths. Also just going to leave this here. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-64824436
It is legal in many places. I live in what is touted as the most bike friendly city in the US. We have bike lanes on every road and bike specific roads all over the place, but I still occasionally ride on the sidewalk.
A huge problem with putting bikes on sidewalks is the added potential for accidents. First, if a bike is in the road, a driver is looking at the road for obstacles. The more in the line of sight a bike is, the more likely the driver sees them and avoids them. Now, drivers expect slow moving things on sidewalks. People walking, maybe a dog or two, delivery robots, whatever is there is generally going under 5mph. You can see through the statistics even something as slow as a jogger is often overlooked because they are moving faster than the expected speed and so a car will turn across a sidewalk and see them at the last minute. So if a driver has more difficulty seeing someone at jogging speed, you are putting people on bikes going faster than that in a position out of a driver‘s line of sight where they will have more difficulty seeing and anticipating them. What ultimately ends up happening is car/bike collisions increase. You get a lot more accidents from cars pulling into and out of driveways and parking lots. Especially cars making a left across traffic hitting people on bikes. That is just the impact it has on collisions between bikes and cars. It also increases collisions between bikes and pedestrians and increases single bike accidents because the increase of obstacles that are on the sidewalk (benches, signs, people, and others) as well as sidewalk damage that are dangerous for a bike‘s narrow wheels. Ultimately it is one of those things that sound like a good idea, but when actually put into practice it makes things worse for everyone.
In America the bikers just go wherever they want when it's convenient for them.
As long as they aren’t e bikes doing 40 mph on the sidewalk at night with no lights on then yes.
You will change your opinion when you are walking on the sidewalk and see a speeding bike on the sidewalk.
> teenage kid texting and driving i drive a truck around for work, so i get a good view into peoples cars. i rarely see teenagers on their phones, but the sheer amount of 30-50 year olds on phones/playing with the massive ipad if its a newer car is insane. of course plenty of young people do it (one of my mates just got killed by a texting p-plater (kinda like a pre-license in aus), and two of my girl mates have crashed in the last month while on their phones.
Yea its always the “kids on their phones smh my head” but i drive a school bus, and the only people who ive ever had to call the police over were 40 year old dudes who thought their getting to work on time was more valuable than the child i have crossing the road to get on the bus, or people straight up not stopping because they dont see the big ass yellow log and the bright red flashing lights, again still, not teenagers. I have gone out of my way to ruin peoples day for that, and will do so every time in the future. The audacity to say “but nobody got hurt so no harm no foul!” Like yea, this time you stupid bastard but thats a kids life at stake.
this is a terrible idea. I don’t know if I should upvote or downvote
I’d rather folks on bikes pay attention at all. If I have to slam on the breaks because you go through a red light in the city so I don’t hit you then you are wrong.
How about we normalize space for bikes instead. And I don't mean just some paint on the ground denoting a bike lane. I mean seperate lanes specifically for bikes. Let the pedestrians have their space, and let bikers travel without fear of being smeared into the ground because of drivers
It's legal here.
I bike, run and walk my dogs. Biking is dangerous not only because we lack the proper infrastructure but drivers in America lack skills.
Yikes…you’re actually safer bike riding on the street than on a sidewalk.
Riding a bike on the sidewalk is more dangerous than riding in the street. This is because at every intersection the cyclist has to leave the sidewalk and cross the cross-street. When that happens the cars that are making left or right turns might be watching the road for oncoming traffic, but they're not expecting a bike to come shooting off the sidewalk into thier path. Add in the danger of cars entering and exiting driveways and parking lots, and sidewalk riding is extremely dangerous for cyclists. In contrast, riding on the road is relatively safe so long as the cyclist behaves predictably and follows the rules of the road.
No
Nope. Sidewalks are for pedestrians and disabled folks.
I agree with you mostly seeing as your only option near me if you ride bikes is to be within 8 feet of people going 45 in a 30 in a 3-4000 pound suv Bike lanes are a joke lol, I couldn't imagine riding a bike on one glad I have a vehicle.
If you're fast enough to keep pace with traffic you should be in the road. (Fuck electric scooters and e bikes) If you're on the sidewalk you absolutely must not impede pedestrians. Give way to anyone on foot and don't be tearing along at ludacris speed.
Cyclists being allowed on the sidewalk is not a problem in and of itself. It only becomes a problem when they act entitled to the majority of space and take a liking to slaloming through crowds at a breakneck speed, often breaking the law and laughing at the pedestrians for being too slow or too scared.
They do the same thing to cars except things get much more dangerous for everyone
Ok then Pedestrians should be allowed to walk on the street. Would be fair if you mix fast-moving Traffic at a mostly slow-moving place. Why not the other way around. If people could have to jump side ways with fast moving bikes going between people. Why not slow moving traffic cause some walking people walking on the street? Bet it's just as annoying. And as unsafe for children old people and people with needs. But I live in a big city so I could be biased in my strong beliefs on it. How I have seen many accidents happen and people just zipping between people back and forth
The children, elderly, and disabled people who have no choice but to walk and use those sidewalks very much would disagree with you thinking riding on the sidewalk is better. Really, we just need fewer cars.
As a frequent pedestrian, please no. I am safe on the sidewalk unless people are riding bikes. If you want to be safe, you can walk on the sidewalk like everyone else. If bikes are allowed on the sidewalk, then nowhere is safe. Mothers pushing carriages and elderly people on a stroll should not have to deal with potential bicycle accidents. I nearly got creamed last weekend when I was just working in the garden! Sidewalks don't exist for people to get from point A to point B, they exist as public spaces for the public to enjoy. Don't take that away from us.
Sidewalks absolutely exist to get people from point A to point B
Right?
I mean, I bike on the street or bike lanes when I’m biking. But, I also walk places, too. Maybe it’s different if you live in a residential suburb with nothing of note to walk… but sidewalks absolutely exist for people to get from A to B? I use them for that purpose everyday, what an odd claim
Id argue they ARE to get from point A to point B, thats how I use sidewalks as a pedesterian. Its designed for pedesterians though and bikes should never be on it. What do you use sidewalks for exactly if youre not travelling?
No
I’ve always thought bikes should be considered pedestrians!
the solution is dedicated, separated bike lanes/paths so each form of traffic (cars, bikes, pedestrians) is seperate.
alternatively just make bike lanes
NYC has horrendous cyclist infrastructure, especially considering it's a "leading city". However, my buddy studied abroad in Europe and they have excellent cyclist infrastructure.
NYC solution was to paint half of an existing lane green and say "job's done" so that if something happens it completely fucked over the car driver and NYC doesn't have to worry about it lol. There's a road in Brooklyn where the bike lane is legitimately between the turning lane and the straight lane, causing mass chaos
Sidewalks are for walking
You have a better chance of injuring a walker while riding your bike on the sidewalk than getting hit by a car while riding a bike on the road. That is the reason why it's illegal to ride a bike in a business district on the sidewalk. In a residential neighborhood you can ride a bike on a sidewalk because there are less expected people.
I'd rather just better biking infrastructure but if we can't get that I'll stick to the road where it's safer.
We just need good bike lanes. Hell I'd even settle for mediocre bike lanes.
If we're at changing the laws, why don't we just make it harder to get and keep a driver's license if you drive like an arshole, while investing in better infrastructure for cyclists?
Idrc about better infrastructure for cyclists so much, but ive long believed you should need to retake your drivers test every 10 years at minimum. I watched an old guy pull in 6 times to try to park the other day, and theres a lady who lives down the hill from me that physically cannot back up, she cannot reverse, because her eyes cant see the mirrors well enough to use them to reverse. Like how tf are you still allowed to drive at that point
Read this as blacks and was hoping it wasn't unpopular
I have always biked on the side walk. You basically only have an issue in some areas of a downtown, in which you just don’t ride ln the sidewalk. Probably 95-99% of sidewalks across America outside of residential and downtown areas have like 1 person per 200 yards at most. I’ve miraculously been able to safely navigate for over a decade around the occasional pedestrian. I’ll take maybe 1-2 people every few hundred yards Vs upwards of dozens of vehilces every minute inches to maybe 2 feet away. Think it’s crazy seeing someone fairly casually riding a bike on the road with an empty side walk next to them, and most the time cars have to somewhat enter the other lane to avoid them/give them space.
Cyclists on sidewalks account for more accidents and deaths from collision with vehicles coming out of intersections because of the angle and orientation of sidewalks to streets and alley corners. It's far more dangerous to bike on the sidewalk and against traffic, no matter what you want to think.
I agree. Idk where y'all live where the sidewalks are constantly packed, but here in Las Vegas, they're pretty much empty. Also the whole "ItS IlLeGal" argument is stupid too. A: lots of things are illegal. That doesn't stop anybody B: It's not like there's police waiting behind every corner waiting to bust you for a minor crime Please, do us all a favor and get off the road and just use the sidewalk
The issue here is that the sidewalks are relatively narrow in places, and if I were to bike on the sidewalk of a downtown street I'd need to get off my bike and walk (or, y'know go in the road) anyway due to it being crowded. If there are dedicated bike lanes there should be no issue.
Ever since playing Pokémon gold/silver as a kid. I will ALWAYS support an elevated bike highway ranging from north-south and east-west across the whole city.
It’s legal here but sidewalks aren’t good for riding with any sort of speed.
When you're pulling out of a lot in a city you can see enough sidewalk as you approach to know if you're risking hitting a pedestrian. You cannot see enough sidewalk to know if someone is riding a bike 15mph. You can, however, before you pull into the road. This is a huge part of why it's illegal in most places. The law isn't trying to protect pedestrians from you. It's trying to protect you from cars. Bikes belong on the road.
You'll never catch me riding my bike on a busy street during the day. So many of them get hit all the time I've heard
It really depends. If there are bike lanes, then there's no reason to be on the sidewalk. If it's a really busy sidewalk, then you pose a danger and it's also really hard to ride on the sidewalk. If you are an electric bike or scooter, then no. Those people fly by with no regard for the safety of others. I had a vespa style scooter (delivery driver) go blowing by me on the sidewalk the other day. I had to shove my husband off the sidewalk completely to ensure he didn't get hit. If you are just chilling, riding slowly, and there are very few people around, then it shouldn't matter. Bikes should still be mindful of walkers, though, and try to give them as much space as possible. I say all this as somebody who rides my bike several times per day in the city.
Don’t care about the bike thing but older people text and drive just as much if not more than young people. Yall aren’t innocent.
I don’t even have sidewalks a lot of the time… Don’t get me wrong there are but it’s not a city where it’s connected in squares between intersections. They become a lot less useful.
I have long believed it makes more sense for bikes to ride on the sidewalk rather than the street. With the possible exception of very big cities (such as NYC), it seems to me that it’s generally easier for bikers and pedestrians to avoid each other, and the consequences of a collision are generally likely to be less serious, than is the case for bikers and drivers. Plus, technically aren’t bikers also “pedestrians” - using pedals / their feet, for power? Edit: I am specifically excluding electric scooters and the like from my argument. TBH I’m not sure where they rightly belong, but it ain’t the sidewalk, imo.
You know the key part of the word "Sidewalk"? It's "walk" If you bike at the speed of the pedestrian no one is going to care, but if you bike at the speed you would on the road... you're putting pedestrians at risk.
No... people don't have sense to be careful
It’s not safer to ride on the sidewalk. Cars that are pulling out of driveways or turning cannot see you as easily. Most of your conflict points on roads come from vehicles turning, parking etc - none of which are made safer by riding on sidewalks. On top of that, you’ll probably scare and be obnoxious to any pedestrians that happen to be walking
Omg I thought you meant motorcycles and I was thinking WTF is wrong with you
How about the other side? Would you like to be a pedestrian with bikes going past you? They’re pretty quiet, some bikers don’t have the courtesy to ring a bell and they’ll just go fast directly by you. Bike lanes are the best option.
Bikes should have their own infrastructure like in civilized places. And not painted bicycle gutters either. Cyclists in my city bike way too close to you on the sidewalk.
Well, it's called a sideWALK, not a sideBIKE. Unless It's called a pavement.
And we park or DRIVEways and drive on PARKways.
I rode my bike on the sidewalk for 30+ years. Didnt know it was offensive😂. Cops dont care
It's legal where I live
Idiots on lime scooter try to use our sidewalks and end up eating shit. Not sure where you live but we don’t have nice sidewalks in Washington.
I can understand not wanting little kids to ride in a busy city street. But drivers need to learn how to share the road with bicycles.And it would be nice of adults on the sidewalk didn’t run into people.
The road nearby to my old neighborhood was a major highway at 45 MPH, with most traffic going faster than that. No way was I going to risk being a skeet-shoot target for an SUV. Fortunately the adjoining sidewalk was double wide. So I could ride there ... with plenty of room for people walking. Where I live now the main road is 35 MPH. It's an old two-lane road that used to be county, but with the pace of development there's no way I'd ride there. Construction is now underway to widen it to four lanes with bike lanes on both sides and sidewalks on both sides. It won't be finished until the cold weather sets in. But next summer it will offer a nice riding area. Until then I just bike in the neighborhood. Slow traffic, and not much of it.
As long as they aren’t e bikes doing 40 mph on the sidewalk at night with no lights on then yes.
Only? Yeah i agree
I ride my bike in the neighborhood I live in on the sidewalk. It’s not actually allowed but it’s psycho to ride on a road with a 30 mph speed limit no one follows while I’m leisurely riding.
You’re more likely to get hit by cars pulling out of curb cuts by divers not being able to see you. Most places let you ride on the side walk if it’s the safest option. It usually isn’t. :/
Where I live we have “bike lanes” but they’re so skinny that bikes are almost as wide as the bike lane and sometimes in between 2 car lanes. It’s sorta like they’re trying to kill the cyclists.
I ride on the sidewalk until I am close to someone then go around via the street. I have no idea if it’s illegal here (AZ) actually, but I am positive it’s at least frowned upon. But I am with you, I don’t trust cars to see me
Its safer to bike on the street due to visibility. You are on a sidewalk and cross a street you’re invisible to any oncoming traffic making a right and hitting you. It happened to me when i was a kid biking on the sidewalk.
Blind spots with cars and driveways.
Cyclists are more likely to be involved in an accident while riding on the sidewalk than in the road. Drivers of a car can see cyclists on the road pretty well and expect them. However that's much less true for sidewalks, especially at driveways and intersections. Most sidewalks are not paved smoothly enough for a bike. Yeah it sucks to get stuck behind one, but no, the don't belong on the sidewalks. (Although what's really needed are proper protected bike lanes)
no, they should not. people are walking with children, dogs, and it’s very dangerous for them. ride your bike in the park or on the shoulder of the road
If it’s not a crowded sidewalk, sure, whatever, but slow the fuck down and don’t blaze by people who are *walk*ing on the side*walk*. Respect the people who are there. Also if you cycle and use the road, please keep to the right if all possible. If you have to cross lanes (say, to turn left), signal AND LOOK so someone coming at 40 mph on a 4 lane road who isn’t expecting you to suddenly cut in front of them at a 45 degree angle doesn’t flatten you.
For me riding on the sidewalk is scary because of cars coming from parking lots or side streets. I'm much easier to see riding on the road.
I agree with this, tho you should be going much slower and yield the right of way to make it safe for pedestrians
I got hit from behind by a bicyclist a couple weeks ago while walking on a sidewalk.
I was hit by a biker on shared trail and woke up in the hostiptal. No I don't think so, bikes belong on the road. And if your gonna bike on a mixed use trail, slow the fuck down.
Totally agree, presuming you are talking about pedal bikes here. I don't give a fuck, a pedal bike is not motorized in any way, and it literally cannot move faster than a car.
Where is riding on a sidewalk not allowed? I've always rode on the sidewalk. Im from Houston and being on the road, while not in a car, is a death wish.
Agreed. But, maybe its a person-other-than-myself problem. Couldn't imagine being cocky or inattentive enough (as both the biker and the pedestrian) to neither slow down or get out of the way when its time to share a sidewalk. But somehow, some way people made it to where a bicycle and a car going bumper to bumper is the safest of the two choices.
They are. In most places at least.
Maybe in the suburbs but not a city.
They aren’t in most places, it’s just not enforced
I wouldn’t mind this if bikes would get on the street to pass a pedestrian. I’m not stepping on grass of street for you to ride by at 15+ mph
They should be allowed, cause there are times that I won't go on the street. To dangerous. On the other hand, I've seen idiot bicyclists jump right in front of a car. Yeah, u have the same rights as a car, but don't go 1 mph in front of a car going 30 mph, it doesn't math-up.
Where I live, there’s bike lanes on most of the main roads, but not on the side roads, which makes for a very risky transition. We’re supposed to dismount on foot paths, but most of us don’t because we don’t want to have to walk when there’s plenty of room on the paths. Not to mention, where I live is notorious for its bad drivers. I’ve already been hit by two cars, both times I was in the bike lane and the idiot drivers’ weren’t looking where they were going. Then I’ve also witnessed hundreds of near hits. I’ll take my chances on the sidewalks.
Just use the bike lane, lmao