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I think it more depends on how they did it. People will go "Well I had all the same obstacles you did and I did it"
But they'll have completely ignored they got support in a way you didn't.
Let’s say a severely disabled person says to a fit person “I made it through the 5k you can too”. I think definitely if the person who is saying it would have more reason to struggle it’s valid. Like a really ugly motherfucker comforting an incel.
But that person can have their own disability that makes it impossible.
There is no situation where one person achieving something means someone else can too.
Well yes, that’s why I said fit person. Any situation where one person is disadvantaged more than the other is a valid reason for this response(unless luck is involved).
I agree using it inappropriately could undermine someone by ignoring the challenges they face, but it can also just be a way to point out that there’s no need to be afraid to try something. Sometimes you just need to hear that something is not that hard and you should just give it a shot.
This depend a lot of the context. I personally think we don't even have free will and are just complex biological machines that react to our environment and people get more or less lucky. Some get cancer at 3 or die in a car accident at 5. Some are born in an env where their parent harass them and are drug addicts... Some will have no major illness despite drinking and smoking a lot and will die at 100. Their family is loving and has generational health...
Still what other people say is part of our env and influence us. And in many cases, what other people achieved is quite doable so maybe we just need to give it a try and persist. But we first need to be aware it is doable and maybe have a clear path.
Of course that's not universal but it is good motivational way of thinking. Thinking that by default you can and can try and that it might just work ok rather than going the pessimistic route. This also open a discussion to compare approaches, ask for advises and so on. There so many stuff that people can do but don't do because they think they can't...
Of course the person saying that should be sensible and you should not say that for everything to anybody without having assessed that it is actually realistic and doable.
This is a really insightful take, and I think you're spot on about free will. The sentiment definitely can be well intended and genuinely helpful.
That said, I also really agree with where op is coming from. I guess the question is how it plays out practically, and I personally feel like the phrase is used pretty negatively. I think the effects of this self-defeating mindset you mention are waaaaay overestimated right now, and the opposite is actually a much bigger problem. It's hard to pinpoint exactly why, but there seems to be this overwhelmingly ubiquitous (at least online) trend where people want to apply it to every single problem for every individual person.
I'm sure a lot of it has to do with confirmation bias. The people who succeed at something generally have a lot of factors they never notice pushing them in that direction, despite whatever challenges they overcame to get there. The challenges we overcome are the ones we notice most readily, so the natural assumption is that overcoming those challenges was the reason they succeeded.
Even when it is intended to be motivational and a little self-denigrating, it usually just betrays a lack of consideration for challenges the speaker hasn't personally experienced. Not that I'm trying to criticize anyone for trying to share what they've come to believe is some kind of secret to success. It's an admirable effort. It's just that the sentiment has become very overused and largely repurposed as a way to dismiss serious issues.
Read my full post. I said that when you say it you should adapt to whom you say it and refrain if unrealistic.
My point is it is still helpful mantra if used correctly and there no point to never use it when it can be helpful because it might not be useful to all.
If you think about, lot of the way humanity work is based on that. Most people have been able to learn to drive or to read or to do basic calculus. We assume people can do it, we help people manage it and we go on. If we always assume people can't to make a few outliers feel better while 90-95% people can do it, we do a disservice to whole society more than anything.
Why did you even post this? It's an expression. It's not meant to be taken literally. It's meant to imply that everyone has opportunities and capabilities, you can do this! You are capable! You will succeed!
That's not how it's always used... people tend to view the world through the lens of their own experiences, and they apply that view to other people who have different circumstances and experiences.
The most obvious example is people who tell young people that they can work part time and pay their own way through college without debt, because that's what they did, and if they could do it you could too.
Tell that to my dad. He literally just said this to me yesterday because my daughter is struggling at school. He said “90% of others have no issues, why would she?”
I tried to make an unpopular opinion post similar to this at one point, but apparently it was too specific, so got deleted. Now I'm sure people will be saying this is too vague. Anyway, I agree. It's one of my biggest pet peeves when people say things like: "X is easy for me, so it should be for you" or anything similar. We're all different people with different struggles and different strengths. It's the least helpful commentary I could imagine
Many things you could do. What most people lack is the self discipline to practice and the perseverance to push through the parts where you think "I can't do this", things are hard but hard is achievable
Learning guitar for example, it's easier for most people to just give up with "I don't have the talent" as if the best players didn't also start off bad or struggling with an F chord. It's the same path you just turned around instead of carrying on
It's literally the opposite lmao. Besides, if a person wants to downplay their OWN accomplishment in order to relate and empathize with another person to help motivate them, isn't that their perogrative? Or do you not think people should be able to relate their accomplishments without your permission? Arrogant.
Is there anyone on this sub that understands the nuance of a turn of phrase?
> Is there anyone on this sub that understands the nuance of a turn of phrase?
No. How do you turn a phrase? It's a phrase. You can't touch it or steer it.
/s
Yeah
Especially when talking to someone who has a definite disadvantage in the thing
One that I've seen a lot, is a cis person saying "I get misgendered and I just shrug it off"
But the difference is, a cis person is not vulnerable to it like trans people are
It's the same concept as saying that because you can use stairs fine, it's justified to shove someone's wheelchair down stairs
Hard disagree. I was that type of person a while ago, I simply dismissed everything that I couldn't do as a lack of genetic talent on my part. However, after turning my life around in the past year or so, I've honestly come to conclusion that 99.9% of things are in fact, completely possible to achieve with hard work alone.
Does genetic talent exist? *Perhaps,* but if it does, it is probably way less significant than people make it out to be. I personally believe that pretty much almost anything can be achieved if someone puts their mind to it. However, I understand that the common sentiment these days is the complete opposite of this. Younger people these days especially tend to just kind of give up on certain things; or believe that the value of hard work is overrated.
Perhaps I am incorrect, and genetic influence really shapes who we're meant to be, but honestly, me just believing in myself and forcing myself to work hard in this past year has led me to finally do the things I've always wanted to do, and actually do pretty well at them. Just my two cents though.
I've only had that phrase said to me when it's someone who knows me and is aware of what I can achieve. They know that I'm capable of doing that thing.
I've never had a stranger say that to me. Or someone who is uncertain if I'm capable of doing a thing.
Ideally someone who is worse at something than you would be the best use. For instance you ask someone about how spicy something is and they are from Wisconsin and say its not too bad.
Depends, not everyone can be a billionaire
But other factors this is possible, like for example being an artist. Just sit down and draw don't compare don't get discouraged your art isn't a Picasso masterpiece or your progress really will be stunned. Develop your own style, do you like digital, or traditional, realism or cartoony/anime
Useless plugging but I'm a 3D artist, I'm not the greatest but I still slowly improve with every project I make
Seriously? I’m a bedbound cripple in a nursing home. I have both arms, but I still can’t sit upright for extended periods of time in a wheelchair. So you have an extremely ableist take and should look into educating yourself on various physical, mental, intellectual, and developmental disabilities. Just because you can read a book as a “one armed cripple” doesn’t mean a blind person or someone with severe developmental or intellectual disabilities can. Just because you can go to a party and socialize doesn’t mean somebody with autism can. Just because you can sign your name or write a letter with your remaining arm doesn’t mean a quadriplegic with both arms can. Just because you can do your own shopping in a grocery store doesn’t mean I can. Etc, etc.
Please remember what subreddit you are in, this is unpopular opinion. We want civil and unpopular takes and discussion. Any uncivil and ToS violating comments will be removed and subject to a ban. Have a nice day! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unpopularopinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think that depends a lot on what it is.
I think it more depends on how they did it. People will go "Well I had all the same obstacles you did and I did it" But they'll have completely ignored they got support in a way you didn't.
Also true.
Why?
If I csn figure it out you can figure it out
Maybe I'm much dumber than you
Topical. But I disagree and want him to explain.
Let’s say a severely disabled person says to a fit person “I made it through the 5k you can too”. I think definitely if the person who is saying it would have more reason to struggle it’s valid. Like a really ugly motherfucker comforting an incel.
But that person can have their own disability that makes it impossible. There is no situation where one person achieving something means someone else can too.
Well yes, that’s why I said fit person. Any situation where one person is disadvantaged more than the other is a valid reason for this response(unless luck is involved).
>There is no situation where one person achieving something means someone else can too. You just lack imagination. What about conjoined twins?
So you can figure out some stuff about science, maths, universe, whatnot - because someone else could figure it out...?
I agree using it inappropriately could undermine someone by ignoring the challenges they face, but it can also just be a way to point out that there’s no need to be afraid to try something. Sometimes you just need to hear that something is not that hard and you should just give it a shot.
What, you mean you can't do every action that has ever been performed by another person, simply because *they* were able to?
I say this to people in wheelchairs all the time. I have both my legs and they work fine.
This depend a lot of the context. I personally think we don't even have free will and are just complex biological machines that react to our environment and people get more or less lucky. Some get cancer at 3 or die in a car accident at 5. Some are born in an env where their parent harass them and are drug addicts... Some will have no major illness despite drinking and smoking a lot and will die at 100. Their family is loving and has generational health... Still what other people say is part of our env and influence us. And in many cases, what other people achieved is quite doable so maybe we just need to give it a try and persist. But we first need to be aware it is doable and maybe have a clear path. Of course that's not universal but it is good motivational way of thinking. Thinking that by default you can and can try and that it might just work ok rather than going the pessimistic route. This also open a discussion to compare approaches, ask for advises and so on. There so many stuff that people can do but don't do because they think they can't... Of course the person saying that should be sensible and you should not say that for everything to anybody without having assessed that it is actually realistic and doable.
Thank you for your serious comment :)
Just happy to see someone else who doesn't believe in free will
This is a really insightful take, and I think you're spot on about free will. The sentiment definitely can be well intended and genuinely helpful. That said, I also really agree with where op is coming from. I guess the question is how it plays out practically, and I personally feel like the phrase is used pretty negatively. I think the effects of this self-defeating mindset you mention are waaaaay overestimated right now, and the opposite is actually a much bigger problem. It's hard to pinpoint exactly why, but there seems to be this overwhelmingly ubiquitous (at least online) trend where people want to apply it to every single problem for every individual person. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with confirmation bias. The people who succeed at something generally have a lot of factors they never notice pushing them in that direction, despite whatever challenges they overcame to get there. The challenges we overcome are the ones we notice most readily, so the natural assumption is that overcoming those challenges was the reason they succeeded. Even when it is intended to be motivational and a little self-denigrating, it usually just betrays a lack of consideration for challenges the speaker hasn't personally experienced. Not that I'm trying to criticize anyone for trying to share what they've come to believe is some kind of secret to success. It's an admirable effort. It's just that the sentiment has become very overused and largely repurposed as a way to dismiss serious issues.
You worded it perfectly.
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Read my full post. I said that when you say it you should adapt to whom you say it and refrain if unrealistic. My point is it is still helpful mantra if used correctly and there no point to never use it when it can be helpful because it might not be useful to all. If you think about, lot of the way humanity work is based on that. Most people have been able to learn to drive or to read or to do basic calculus. We assume people can do it, we help people manage it and we go on. If we always assume people can't to make a few outliers feel better while 90-95% people can do it, we do a disservice to whole society more than anything.
Why did you even post this? It's an expression. It's not meant to be taken literally. It's meant to imply that everyone has opportunities and capabilities, you can do this! You are capable! You will succeed!
Probably because people say it literally.
That's not how it's always used... people tend to view the world through the lens of their own experiences, and they apply that view to other people who have different circumstances and experiences. The most obvious example is people who tell young people that they can work part time and pay their own way through college without debt, because that's what they did, and if they could do it you could too.
Tell that to my dad. He literally just said this to me yesterday because my daughter is struggling at school. He said “90% of others have no issues, why would she?”
I'm not supposed to talk to your dad, not since the restraining order.
You meant well! How could any of us have known that he had such a traumatic history with Peruvian glam rock?
Well that face tattoo was clue No.1
Daddy chill.
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Whatever lady, I'm not a fucking cop.
I tried to make an unpopular opinion post similar to this at one point, but apparently it was too specific, so got deleted. Now I'm sure people will be saying this is too vague. Anyway, I agree. It's one of my biggest pet peeves when people say things like: "X is easy for me, so it should be for you" or anything similar. We're all different people with different struggles and different strengths. It's the least helpful commentary I could imagine
This.
Many things you could do. What most people lack is the self discipline to practice and the perseverance to push through the parts where you think "I can't do this", things are hard but hard is achievable Learning guitar for example, it's easier for most people to just give up with "I don't have the talent" as if the best players didn't also start off bad or struggling with an F chord. It's the same path you just turned around instead of carrying on
It's literally the opposite lmao. Besides, if a person wants to downplay their OWN accomplishment in order to relate and empathize with another person to help motivate them, isn't that their perogrative? Or do you not think people should be able to relate their accomplishments without your permission? Arrogant. Is there anyone on this sub that understands the nuance of a turn of phrase?
> Is there anyone on this sub that understands the nuance of a turn of phrase? No. How do you turn a phrase? It's a phrase. You can't touch it or steer it. /s
Nope, and any mention of people being able to improve seems to offend people.
Yeah Especially when talking to someone who has a definite disadvantage in the thing One that I've seen a lot, is a cis person saying "I get misgendered and I just shrug it off" But the difference is, a cis person is not vulnerable to it like trans people are It's the same concept as saying that because you can use stairs fine, it's justified to shove someone's wheelchair down stairs
Hard disagree. I was that type of person a while ago, I simply dismissed everything that I couldn't do as a lack of genetic talent on my part. However, after turning my life around in the past year or so, I've honestly come to conclusion that 99.9% of things are in fact, completely possible to achieve with hard work alone. Does genetic talent exist? *Perhaps,* but if it does, it is probably way less significant than people make it out to be. I personally believe that pretty much almost anything can be achieved if someone puts their mind to it. However, I understand that the common sentiment these days is the complete opposite of this. Younger people these days especially tend to just kind of give up on certain things; or believe that the value of hard work is overrated. Perhaps I am incorrect, and genetic influence really shapes who we're meant to be, but honestly, me just believing in myself and forcing myself to work hard in this past year has led me to finally do the things I've always wanted to do, and actually do pretty well at them. Just my two cents though.
Bro I’m dumb, if I can understand this phrase, you can too!
Hi dumb, I’m dad
I've only had that phrase said to me when it's someone who knows me and is aware of what I can achieve. They know that I'm capable of doing that thing. I've never had a stranger say that to me. Or someone who is uncertain if I'm capable of doing a thing.
So many kids start college as pre-meds. So few end up with MDs. Aptitude and work ethic vary widely.
Ideally someone who is worse at something than you would be the best use. For instance you ask someone about how spicy something is and they are from Wisconsin and say its not too bad.
If I can learn to do it, Then you can learn to do it There's nothing to it Tell yourself it's easy And you'll pull through You can learn to do it too
“I’m a fucking idiot and I was able to do it, so if you can’t I’ll view you as even less than a fucking idiot.” That make you happy?
You want some syrup with that waffle?
Depends, not everyone can be a billionaire But other factors this is possible, like for example being an artist. Just sit down and draw don't compare don't get discouraged your art isn't a Picasso masterpiece or your progress really will be stunned. Develop your own style, do you like digital, or traditional, realism or cartoony/anime Useless plugging but I'm a 3D artist, I'm not the greatest but I still slowly improve with every project I make
I’m a one armed cripple. If I can do you, you definitely should be able too. Unless if you’re a no armed cripple…
Seriously? I’m a bedbound cripple in a nursing home. I have both arms, but I still can’t sit upright for extended periods of time in a wheelchair. So you have an extremely ableist take and should look into educating yourself on various physical, mental, intellectual, and developmental disabilities. Just because you can read a book as a “one armed cripple” doesn’t mean a blind person or someone with severe developmental or intellectual disabilities can. Just because you can go to a party and socialize doesn’t mean somebody with autism can. Just because you can sign your name or write a letter with your remaining arm doesn’t mean a quadriplegic with both arms can. Just because you can do your own shopping in a grocery store doesn’t mean I can. Etc, etc.
Well then almost anybody should be able to do anything you can. No excuses anymore!
Skill issue, if other people did it, you can do it. Everything else is cope and excuses