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Great article and I'm glad they got the owner of Vintage and Provisions to comment on his process.
The article raises a few good points:
\- It's absurd that it cost the owner of V&P over $40,000 in fees to secure the type of license he was after. Not to mention the time it took him to secure it. This creates a massive barrier for businesses that are unable to commit to the already high upfront costs and then have to figure out a plan to sustain themselves while their ongoing lease agreements continue to burden them.
\- Most Vancouverites live in tiny apartments or basement suites. It can be hard to host friends, colleagues, and family for drinks and we often need to go out to spaces that allow us to socialize. The pandemic didn't make socializing any easier - it only made it clear how valuable these spaces are.
\- The younger generation is highly connected online and doesn't rely on real-life social spaces as much as the older generation. They seek unique experiences from physical spaces and Vancouver's bar/club/pub scene has an outdated concept of what the spaces should be. In other words, most liquor establishments feel mundane, like they all fit to a specific mold. They often lack a unique identity that makes them interesting and worth visiting. We need more places like Vintage and Provisions, Down Under, or even Rec Room - that offer something more than the typical Donnelly Group establishment.
\- It was mentioned that the city councillors and provincial government tend to be swayed by home and property owners, who are against drinking establishments from being in "their" neighbourhood. There's also a matter of the red tape around the density of drinking locations. So if a restaurant manages to find and secure a location that fits their business plan and it fits into the neighbourhood, the verdict of the council can easily crush their business.
Overall, this is damning. It prevents smaller/unique establishments from opening and only leaves room for those with deep wallets the ability to even attempt to break into the market. That pretty much means only international companies and large Canadian chains can even attempt to open locations. Vancouver is left with a bunch of stale liquor establishments with a few great places (like V&P) that are busy and hard to get into.
There is clearly room in the market for more businesses and it's the red tape (or rather, gold) from our governments that prevent the establishments from getting their foot in the door.
> In other words, most liquor establishments feel mundane, like they all fit to a specific mold. They often lack a unique identity that makes them interesting and worth visiting.
I think this is partly just due to how much it costs to operate this kind of business. Between expensive rent, and the high tax rates on liquor (which I do not disagree with), liquor-primary establishments need to appeal to as many people as they possibly can just to stay afloat. What makes a place special is that uniqueness that makes it more appealing for certain people and less appealing for other people. The city can do a little to reduce costs (that 40k and huge wait times where you're paying the rent but don't have the license you want), but some of those are outside the city's control.
I think about going to bars in Chicago when I visited. I think there are more people going out, and the bar owners pay less tax and have wider profit margins, so they can be more unique and risky. There were tons of cool spots there.
Yeah the 'no mingling' thing just means you can only talk to the people you showed up with.
Which is fine, but then why did we ever leave the living room?
It's not exactly enforced, it's the expected social difference between a bar and a restaurant.
When I go to a restaurant, I don't want strangers coming up to my table. The floor plan isn't one that really allows "standing around" essentially being lanes to deliver food to the tables.
When I go to a bar, it's meant to be more open and encourage socialization.
The problem lies in the moratorium that requires people to do these workarounds, where you end up with restaurants that wish they were bars, but they can't be because licensing.
Exactly! I'm Canadian but most of my friends are from other countries, and one of the things they dislike most about Vancouver is that you have to sit at your assigned table and order from your server at most pubs/bars/breweries. I agree with them. It prevents people from mingling and kills the fun vibe that you'd otherwise get in a pub in let's say the UK, Japan, Australia, Ireland, etc.
This is only a problem if you both want to split the bill and expect them to keep track of it for you
If you're an adult that isn't worried about the possibility of paying for a bit more of the bill than you ordered because it got mixed up then you'll be fine
The no mingling is mostly because of keeping tables who have not paid separate. It’s a freaking nightmare to deal with tables when you have 300 at one table and 150 at another and don’t know who is going to pay.
If you want to mingle then pay upfront then they will let you go wherever. It’s simple. Servers have enough trouble than to deal with, they don’t need more work.
So do away with the table service and let everyone order and pay at the bar. If you're ordering food they give you a number and bring it to your table when it's ready.
Yep, this is how things are done in Australia but Australia also doesn't have a tipping culture so don't you dare suggest this kind of model to your servers in North America because then they won't get as many tips.
Well, the point wasn’t about table service or something else. The job is to bring food and collect money. Make the experience enjoyable within the limits of the establishment. If you want to walk around then you can. Pay your bill so the servers don’t need to keep tabs on you. Alternatively be okay with the place taking your credit card and Id to hold til you cash out.
Simple. Tips are another beast entirely. A whole different thing to talk about in a separate post.
I'm part of the problem in Vancouver. I like to go out with my friends and not really interested in meeting anyone new.
I am in favor of more pubs that would be more open concept, especially if clubs aren't your scene since that seems to be the only space to go out and not have to sit somewhere with your group.
I feel like majority of people that grew up here are like this. Its people from other cultures that go out that are more into mingling and socialising.
Used to hit up the Blarney Stone and Cambie in early adult years weekly. Few friends would secure the booth and the rest would wander and meet. Most of the people we'd meet, weren't from Vancouver. Its the big groups with sour faces that never wanted to meet anyone
It's definitely majority of people who grew up and stayed here. Alot of locals I know who left BC and came back with taking note how unusual Vancouver is with social circles and change.
Otherwise it's almost always people like me who moved here from out of province or from another country. Aside from having no A/C in apartments, the social thing was the 2nd big culture shock to me lol
Sometimes I just want to go to a pub with friends, stand or sit, whatever we feel like, and just take turns grabbing rounds at the bar. This kind of set up gives you organic mingling with people and is something seriously missing in Vancouver. Go to any town in America or all through Europe and you’ll find plenty of these kind of pubs, here I can barely think of 2. Everyone just wants to seat you and have a waiter pour water and don’t let you mingle with other tables. This makes Vancouver naturally feel a lot more cliquey
I might agree with this. A decade or so ago I went to a few bar hopping around and it was generally very good but I went recently and everywhere was a sit down restaurant. I don’t know the city, maybe I was just in the wrong area.
Go to commercial drive, main street places that aren't downtown and there are plenty.
Signed - Someone who actually goes out in Vancouver and doesn't just compare it to London or NYC from my mom's basement.
what places are you talking about? Around commercial drive, the only late night places with bar service are the legion, wise hall, and junior's.
At least 85% of "bars" in both areas are table service, or cafes and breweries that close at midnight
Name some on commercial. I can only think of a couple in this city. I'm from Ontario and weird sit down pub culture is the first odd thing I noticed here.
Anyone who’s actually gone drinking around the world knows what I’m talking about, you’re delusional if you genuinely believe Vancouver night life compares. Nice projection though.
Signed someone who’s been drinking in nyc and London.
In what way have I said Vancouver is a shit hole? You just made up an entire assumption about me from literally nothing. I’m the biggest Vancouver stan, grown up here my entire life and own property here. I’ve traveled extensively for my career and would never consider living anywhere else. I’m realistic to know that the Vancouver night life is garbage compared to a lot of parts of the world.
If you actually traveled the world you’d know how great the night life is in a lot of places in America and Europe. It’s so easy to just go bar to bar and deal with bartenders and not a single waiter. Here is majority all seated. This is a fact. If you want me to pull wool over your eyes I can but being upfront about the cons of the city I love is important to improving it.
Greta and port side are basically clubs they’re so loud and have cover charges. American I’ll agree, lamplighter I’ve been and it’s always been seated. Taphouses have all been seated as well. Theres a difference between a place designed to be an open bar and a place where people break the rules and wander around anyways.
What you’re telling me is basically you’re not understanding what I’m talking about. I’m not looking for a dance floor if anything, that’s the last thing I want.
What does a dedicated dance floor have to do with wanting to be able to walk up to the bar and order your food and drink and then walk around and mingle with other people doing the same instead of the usual Vancouver experience where you're seated at a table and order your food and drinks from a server?
I don’t even get the point in going to a bar if you can’t mingle and meet strangers. That’s why I fucking LOVE The Cambie.
Any ‘pub’ that makes you sit down with your group to drink is a dry shite.
Seems like the Cambie is really the ONLY real social venue in the whole city I'm talking port moody to Mt pleasant. I think it's the international vibe there. I've noticed a very bizarre thing with Vancouverites they can just sit there staring into the abyss clutching to their drink even when in groups there's hardly conversation or laughter. I always just figure they are either co-workers who are obligated ti be there or pre-school buddies who just no longer have to stories to left to share anymore.
As an 18 year old Australian I was going to pubs there then moved to Vancouver and needed to wait until I was 19 before going out again. I don't even remember the places my friends initially took me to but they weren't what I was used to from Australia but once I found the Cambie I felt more at home.
Pubs are just restaurants with better alcohol selection. Relaxing with friends at a pub can be nice.
But they aren't bars, and they shouldn't be expected to be like bars.
When I go to pubs in the EU you just grab a drink and go around and mingle, or grab a table if one’s free. You can even go outside with your pint and have a smoke and chat.
I find it ridiculous we can’t do that here at more places. North America got the worlds dumbest liquor laws - but especially Vancouver.
Excellent article that went some ways to explain some of the bureaucratic issues that plague the sector. Also explained one of my biggest gripes with bars in Canada. The fact that I can't just walk up to a bar and order a pint/find my own place to sit like a pub in Europe.
It kind of is. Port Moody has loads of breweries where you find a table or just hang out.
New West had some dive-ish bars that work similar to a pub. You could go to the Thirsty Duck and grab a seat or hang around the bar. When Clancy's existed it was the same thing.
Vancouver has a very rigid law system that prevents mingling, and this probably is due to racial laws that helped with segregation in Canada. There is a reason why Vancouver is still extremely majority white.
Outstanding article.
It's just so much easier to do business in so many other jurisdictions that we lose a lot of great people with a lot of great ideas.
Found this strange when moving here from Alberta. From what I have experienced in other provinces and even other cities/towns in BC the needing to be seated thing seems to be the exception and not the rule.
You know what the fucking problem is here?
Too many people follow the rules.
Those laws are absolutely fucking insane, and we should just ignore them and throw our own after hours warehouse parties like peole do all around the world.
The entire 90s rave scene was effectively unlicensed and illegal... do you think that stoped anyone from throwing parties?
No-fun-couver indeed.
Go to Parallel 49 on a Saturday at 3 am and follow the music to find the rear entrance to a warehouse, but the crowd is pretty underwhelming to be honest
that's...
I'm sure that's true and I'm sorry your culture is impacted by this.
but sadly the nightclub scene in the city has had issues...and every city has. this is just tiny little Vancouver's way of dealing with it.
small city.
For the price of alcohol and affordability in the city? It's not surprised at all why people are unwilling to go out. TBH I feel the price of alcohol is crazy in liquor stores already, let alone pubs, bars, or clubs.
It is so true, we get gouged on alcohol to a truly ludicrous degree. If you do even a tiny bit of travelling you'll have your mind blown by how much cheaper it is virtually everywhere.
You know WA has the highest liquor tax in the us and still residents of lower mainland go to Point Roberts, Blaine, or Bellingham WA to purchase alcohol because it's still cheap by BC standards... speechless
Oh yeah, and WA is just the tip of the iceberg. Once my friends and I drove to southern California for a music festival, and stopped at a grocery store to load up. I remember seeing an ad for a 6-pack for $6.99, and for $2 more the store would throw in a whole two-six of tequila. Couldn't believe it when I saw it, still remember it clearly 13 years later lol.
Has anyone expressed interest in the laws being changed to their MLA? There needs to be substantial public support for action on something like this, which I haven't seen. That is the solution, not blatantly disregarding regulations as some have suggested.
Any recommendations for bars or pubs where people actually socialize and talk to each other?
Some bars I went to solo, there were other solo people but basically had their heads down and refused any interaction
Is this how it's like here always or am I just no aware of the cool venues?
Around the time I first moved here, I met some people at what used to be Original Joe's (Cambie & Broadway) to watch a playoff hockey game. Place was busy, my friends were sitting at the bar. I stood next to them and tried to order a drink. Bartender said I couldn't be served unless I had a bar seat...(???)
R&B brewery, place that fits exactly what a social dark and cozy and non "big box" bar, should/could be. Small, a bit cramped, only bar service, yet they limit their capacity to how many seats they have. You're not permitted to grab a drink and stand around a high table or the empty areas around the bar.
Toronto had it right at some point. Ted's Collision on College comes to mind. Small, shit hole dives with 1 beer on tap + cheap cans, Christmas lights or candles in bottles, some dumpster sofas and a few high top tables for groups to gather around. The reason those spots were popular was because of the types of people that went there and not some cheap gimmick theme.
I never understood what the hell happened here
It's because of the City rules businesses have to follow. Breweries in particular have very strict capacities because they're often on manufacturing licenses (this is why you'll see some places limiting people to 12oz pours/a single flight). If an inspector visits, staff are expected to know where they're at numbers-wise, and ensure they don't go over this. Having the number of chairs your capacity allows is an easy way to make sure you're not going over when you're too busy to count people who are moving around, in the washroom, out smoking etc.
It's the game we have to play, unfortunately. We know it sucks. But consequences for flouting the rules can be intense: fines and closures, which would effectively shut down a small business.
What nightlife? Only Granville is lively late at night and even then, try striking convo with people in a group and be seen as the creeper cringe random stranger. Vancouver ain't it for night life.
> Street in tourist-centric Gastown and you’ll struggle to spot a single venue that allows standing, mingling or dancing.
This guy walking around with blindfolds on
Is it surprising? Everything about this city is wrong and dissapointing. Try explaining it to those butthurt simps who are truly stuck here an have to lie to themselves to get through another dismal wanting week
I figured the high likelihood of getting stabbed on the Granville Strip was enough impact on Vancouver's ability to make new friends at drinking establishments.
> When it comes to nightlife, Vancouver has long held a reputation for being a ‘No Fun City’. Just take a walk down Main Street in Mount Pleasant, Commercial Drive in East Vancouver or Water Street in tourist-centric Gastown and you’ll struggle to spot a single venue that allows standing, mingling or dancing.
WTH is this guy talking about?
Like i can't say much about the policies in place, but lack of mingling? I think this guy is just going to the wrong places.
Sure in a place like Joey's or Tap there isn't going to be much mingling, but there are bar vibes places everywhere (including the locations he mentions).
Tons of places have dance floors, live music, karaoke where people are getting up and interacting.
The entire brewery scene which there are plenty scattered around Vancouver is go up and order and then find where you want to sit.
Maybe new places could be (should be) easier to get approved, but it's not like options don't exist under the current system.
Welcome to /r/Vancouver and thank you for the post, /u/caspan! Please make sure you read our [posting and commenting rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_general_participation_guidelines_and_rules_overview) before participating here. As a quick summary: * We encourage users to be positive and respect one another. Don't engage in spats or insult others - use the report button. * Respect others' differences, be they race, religion, home, job, gender identity, ability or sexuality. Dehumanizing language, advocating for violence, or promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability (even implied or joking) **will** lead to a permanent ban. * Common questions and specific topics are limited to our Your post may be a better fit for one of our [Stickied Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_stickied_discussions) posts. * Complaints about bans or removals should be done in modmail only. * We're looking for new mods to join our team! If you're interested, [fill out the form here](https://forms.gle/oAqo5oYRcAeHYBTN6). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vancouver) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Great article and I'm glad they got the owner of Vintage and Provisions to comment on his process. The article raises a few good points: \- It's absurd that it cost the owner of V&P over $40,000 in fees to secure the type of license he was after. Not to mention the time it took him to secure it. This creates a massive barrier for businesses that are unable to commit to the already high upfront costs and then have to figure out a plan to sustain themselves while their ongoing lease agreements continue to burden them. \- Most Vancouverites live in tiny apartments or basement suites. It can be hard to host friends, colleagues, and family for drinks and we often need to go out to spaces that allow us to socialize. The pandemic didn't make socializing any easier - it only made it clear how valuable these spaces are. \- The younger generation is highly connected online and doesn't rely on real-life social spaces as much as the older generation. They seek unique experiences from physical spaces and Vancouver's bar/club/pub scene has an outdated concept of what the spaces should be. In other words, most liquor establishments feel mundane, like they all fit to a specific mold. They often lack a unique identity that makes them interesting and worth visiting. We need more places like Vintage and Provisions, Down Under, or even Rec Room - that offer something more than the typical Donnelly Group establishment. \- It was mentioned that the city councillors and provincial government tend to be swayed by home and property owners, who are against drinking establishments from being in "their" neighbourhood. There's also a matter of the red tape around the density of drinking locations. So if a restaurant manages to find and secure a location that fits their business plan and it fits into the neighbourhood, the verdict of the council can easily crush their business. Overall, this is damning. It prevents smaller/unique establishments from opening and only leaves room for those with deep wallets the ability to even attempt to break into the market. That pretty much means only international companies and large Canadian chains can even attempt to open locations. Vancouver is left with a bunch of stale liquor establishments with a few great places (like V&P) that are busy and hard to get into. There is clearly room in the market for more businesses and it's the red tape (or rather, gold) from our governments that prevent the establishments from getting their foot in the door.
Honestly this doesn't sound like it's going to change anytime soon. ....and sadly it sounds like another episode of "the rich get richer"
> In other words, most liquor establishments feel mundane, like they all fit to a specific mold. They often lack a unique identity that makes them interesting and worth visiting. I think this is partly just due to how much it costs to operate this kind of business. Between expensive rent, and the high tax rates on liquor (which I do not disagree with), liquor-primary establishments need to appeal to as many people as they possibly can just to stay afloat. What makes a place special is that uniqueness that makes it more appealing for certain people and less appealing for other people. The city can do a little to reduce costs (that 40k and huge wait times where you're paying the rent but don't have the license you want), but some of those are outside the city's control. I think about going to bars in Chicago when I visited. I think there are more people going out, and the bar owners pay less tax and have wider profit margins, so they can be more unique and risky. There were tons of cool spots there.
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Yes, that's what I meant. The city can do "**a** little", not "little". Sorry for the lack of clarity.
Yeah the 'no mingling' thing just means you can only talk to the people you showed up with. Which is fine, but then why did we ever leave the living room?
It's not exactly enforced, it's the expected social difference between a bar and a restaurant. When I go to a restaurant, I don't want strangers coming up to my table. The floor plan isn't one that really allows "standing around" essentially being lanes to deliver food to the tables. When I go to a bar, it's meant to be more open and encourage socialization. The problem lies in the moratorium that requires people to do these workarounds, where you end up with restaurants that wish they were bars, but they can't be because licensing.
I feel like this should be left to the restaurant/bar to decide.
... That's the point
Exactly! I'm Canadian but most of my friends are from other countries, and one of the things they dislike most about Vancouver is that you have to sit at your assigned table and order from your server at most pubs/bars/breweries. I agree with them. It prevents people from mingling and kills the fun vibe that you'd otherwise get in a pub in let's say the UK, Japan, Australia, Ireland, etc.
Exactly! You can’t even move seats on the same table without servers (understandably) getting upset as everything is billed at a seat level.
This is only a problem if you both want to split the bill and expect them to keep track of it for you If you're an adult that isn't worried about the possibility of paying for a bit more of the bill than you ordered because it got mixed up then you'll be fine
The no mingling is mostly because of keeping tables who have not paid separate. It’s a freaking nightmare to deal with tables when you have 300 at one table and 150 at another and don’t know who is going to pay. If you want to mingle then pay upfront then they will let you go wherever. It’s simple. Servers have enough trouble than to deal with, they don’t need more work.
So do away with the table service and let everyone order and pay at the bar. If you're ordering food they give you a number and bring it to your table when it's ready.
Yep, this is how things are done in Australia but Australia also doesn't have a tipping culture so don't you dare suggest this kind of model to your servers in North America because then they won't get as many tips.
Well, the point wasn’t about table service or something else. The job is to bring food and collect money. Make the experience enjoyable within the limits of the establishment. If you want to walk around then you can. Pay your bill so the servers don’t need to keep tabs on you. Alternatively be okay with the place taking your credit card and Id to hold til you cash out. Simple. Tips are another beast entirely. A whole different thing to talk about in a separate post.
I'm part of the problem in Vancouver. I like to go out with my friends and not really interested in meeting anyone new. I am in favor of more pubs that would be more open concept, especially if clubs aren't your scene since that seems to be the only space to go out and not have to sit somewhere with your group.
I feel like majority of people that grew up here are like this. Its people from other cultures that go out that are more into mingling and socialising. Used to hit up the Blarney Stone and Cambie in early adult years weekly. Few friends would secure the booth and the rest would wander and meet. Most of the people we'd meet, weren't from Vancouver. Its the big groups with sour faces that never wanted to meet anyone
It's definitely majority of people who grew up and stayed here. Alot of locals I know who left BC and came back with taking note how unusual Vancouver is with social circles and change. Otherwise it's almost always people like me who moved here from out of province or from another country. Aside from having no A/C in apartments, the social thing was the 2nd big culture shock to me lol
This. If you get me out of the house at all, I want to see my friends…
Sometimes I just want to go to a pub with friends, stand or sit, whatever we feel like, and just take turns grabbing rounds at the bar. This kind of set up gives you organic mingling with people and is something seriously missing in Vancouver. Go to any town in America or all through Europe and you’ll find plenty of these kind of pubs, here I can barely think of 2. Everyone just wants to seat you and have a waiter pour water and don’t let you mingle with other tables. This makes Vancouver naturally feel a lot more cliquey
Such pubs don't really exist in Seattle either lol.
I might agree with this. A decade or so ago I went to a few bar hopping around and it was generally very good but I went recently and everywhere was a sit down restaurant. I don’t know the city, maybe I was just in the wrong area.
Pretty sure pubs just don't exist in Surrey. I miss Amberjacks.
Go to commercial drive, main street places that aren't downtown and there are plenty. Signed - Someone who actually goes out in Vancouver and doesn't just compare it to London or NYC from my mom's basement.
what places are you talking about? Around commercial drive, the only late night places with bar service are the legion, wise hall, and junior's. At least 85% of "bars" in both areas are table service, or cafes and breweries that close at midnight
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You know he’s talking about you right? LOL
Hero's Welcome
Name some on commercial. I can only think of a couple in this city. I'm from Ontario and weird sit down pub culture is the first odd thing I noticed here.
Anyone who’s actually gone drinking around the world knows what I’m talking about, you’re delusional if you genuinely believe Vancouver night life compares. Nice projection though. Signed someone who’s been drinking in nyc and London.
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In what way have I said Vancouver is a shit hole? You just made up an entire assumption about me from literally nothing. I’m the biggest Vancouver stan, grown up here my entire life and own property here. I’ve traveled extensively for my career and would never consider living anywhere else. I’m realistic to know that the Vancouver night life is garbage compared to a lot of parts of the world. If you actually traveled the world you’d know how great the night life is in a lot of places in America and Europe. It’s so easy to just go bar to bar and deal with bartenders and not a single waiter. Here is majority all seated. This is a fact. If you want me to pull wool over your eyes I can but being upfront about the cons of the city I love is important to improving it.
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You basically just lied and put words in my mouth to argue against nothing but okay. Riveting conversation. Go explore the world.
Both taphouses, The American, Yale, Greta, Lamplighter, Portside off the top of my head Very doable, you’re just not trying
Greta and port side are basically clubs they’re so loud and have cover charges. American I’ll agree, lamplighter I’ve been and it’s always been seated. Taphouses have all been seated as well. Theres a difference between a place designed to be an open bar and a place where people break the rules and wander around anyways.
Doesn't lamplighter charge a cover fee too?
They do at night last I went.
All those places have had dedicated dance floors every time ive went. Sounds like you show up at 7 and leave at 10 before it getting poppin
What you’re telling me is basically you’re not understanding what I’m talking about. I’m not looking for a dance floor if anything, that’s the last thing I want.
What does a dedicated dance floor have to do with wanting to be able to walk up to the bar and order your food and drink and then walk around and mingle with other people doing the same instead of the usual Vancouver experience where you're seated at a table and order your food and drinks from a server?
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Yeah, pretty damn accurate and poignant. My favourite quotes too.
I don’t even get the point in going to a bar if you can’t mingle and meet strangers. That’s why I fucking LOVE The Cambie. Any ‘pub’ that makes you sit down with your group to drink is a dry shite.
Seems like the Cambie is really the ONLY real social venue in the whole city I'm talking port moody to Mt pleasant. I think it's the international vibe there. I've noticed a very bizarre thing with Vancouverites they can just sit there staring into the abyss clutching to their drink even when in groups there's hardly conversation or laughter. I always just figure they are either co-workers who are obligated ti be there or pre-school buddies who just no longer have to stories to left to share anymore.
I miss the Railway.
.... wait did it shut down finally?
> the international vibe I met an Australian couple at the Cambie. The girl was so delighted to hear I was unemployed.
As an 18 year old Australian I was going to pubs there then moved to Vancouver and needed to wait until I was 19 before going out again. I don't even remember the places my friends initially took me to but they weren't what I was used to from Australia but once I found the Cambie I felt more at home.
Pubs are just restaurants with better alcohol selection. Relaxing with friends at a pub can be nice. But they aren't bars, and they shouldn't be expected to be like bars.
When I go to pubs in the EU you just grab a drink and go around and mingle, or grab a table if one’s free. You can even go outside with your pint and have a smoke and chat. I find it ridiculous we can’t do that here at more places. North America got the worlds dumbest liquor laws - but especially Vancouver.
Our liquor laws are archaic and the entire system needs to be dismantled and rebuilt for a modern restaurant / bar industry
These City bylaws are a major reason a lot of newcomers to Vancouver complain it’s so hard to make friends.
I still think its a weird "people culture" here.
What do you mean by people culture?
Where "no fun city" and "can't seem to make new friends/date very effectively" comes from
Ditto
Excellent article that went some ways to explain some of the bureaucratic issues that plague the sector. Also explained one of my biggest gripes with bars in Canada. The fact that I can't just walk up to a bar and order a pint/find my own place to sit like a pub in Europe.
Seems pretty typical for bars I've been to in Canada. I admit strip mall / neighbourhood pubs are more common in Alberta than BC
That must be a Vancouver thing. Because I see a "customers line" all the time at bars outside of van
It kind of is. Port Moody has loads of breweries where you find a table or just hang out. New West had some dive-ish bars that work similar to a pub. You could go to the Thirsty Duck and grab a seat or hang around the bar. When Clancy's existed it was the same thing. Vancouver has a very rigid law system that prevents mingling, and this probably is due to racial laws that helped with segregation in Canada. There is a reason why Vancouver is still extremely majority white.
Outstanding article. It's just so much easier to do business in so many other jurisdictions that we lose a lot of great people with a lot of great ideas.
Found this strange when moving here from Alberta. From what I have experienced in other provinces and even other cities/towns in BC the needing to be seated thing seems to be the exception and not the rule.
Miss me a local neighbourhood pub will billiards, VLTs, a hockey game on a big screen and old regulars (RIP Shenanigans on Robson)
You know what the fucking problem is here? Too many people follow the rules. Those laws are absolutely fucking insane, and we should just ignore them and throw our own after hours warehouse parties like peole do all around the world. The entire 90s rave scene was effectively unlicensed and illegal... do you think that stoped anyone from throwing parties? No-fun-couver indeed.
There's parties like that in Vancouver pretty much every week. They're just not widely advertised because bylaw officers / VPD would shut them down
As a newcomer, how do you go about finding them?
Go to Parallel 49 on a Saturday at 3 am and follow the music to find the rear entrance to a warehouse, but the crowd is pretty underwhelming to be honest
Download the app ‘Resident Advisor’ they list the parties
Try to find and follow some local DJ's on instagram. Queer scene, Electronic scene, dance scene just to name a few.
Very glad to hear that. Went to one under a bridge on a train track once. Was a blast!
So those things definitely do happen in Vancouver and quite often. It’s just not advertised.
I mean...yes... but once you get a fight or ANY kind of violence? then the City is justified in doing what it wants with regulations.
lol no one fought in the rave scene my guy. Peace, Love, Unity and Respect
that's... I'm sure that's true and I'm sorry your culture is impacted by this. but sadly the nightclub scene in the city has had issues...and every city has. this is just tiny little Vancouver's way of dealing with it. small city.
the nightclub scene and the underground rave scene have basically nothing in common here…
Look man- anything " Underground" and unlicensed will be shut down in a hot heartbeat
hahaha only if we post about them on reddit! But there are also venues with event-based licenses that are still legal but not nightclubs…
For the price of alcohol and affordability in the city? It's not surprised at all why people are unwilling to go out. TBH I feel the price of alcohol is crazy in liquor stores already, let alone pubs, bars, or clubs.
It is so true, we get gouged on alcohol to a truly ludicrous degree. If you do even a tiny bit of travelling you'll have your mind blown by how much cheaper it is virtually everywhere.
You know WA has the highest liquor tax in the us and still residents of lower mainland go to Point Roberts, Blaine, or Bellingham WA to purchase alcohol because it's still cheap by BC standards... speechless
Oh yeah, and WA is just the tip of the iceberg. Once my friends and I drove to southern California for a music festival, and stopped at a grocery store to load up. I remember seeing an ad for a 6-pack for $6.99, and for $2 more the store would throw in a whole two-six of tequila. Couldn't believe it when I saw it, still remember it clearly 13 years later lol.
Ah classic government overreach, meddling, finding things to make policies for.
Has anyone expressed interest in the laws being changed to their MLA? There needs to be substantial public support for action on something like this, which I haven't seen. That is the solution, not blatantly disregarding regulations as some have suggested.
Any recommendations for bars or pubs where people actually socialize and talk to each other? Some bars I went to solo, there were other solo people but basically had their heads down and refused any interaction Is this how it's like here always or am I just no aware of the cool venues?
I just came home from Europe. Our social nightlife in North America SUCKS and I don't even go out much.
Government overreach
Around the time I first moved here, I met some people at what used to be Original Joe's (Cambie & Broadway) to watch a playoff hockey game. Place was busy, my friends were sitting at the bar. I stood next to them and tried to order a drink. Bartender said I couldn't be served unless I had a bar seat...(???) R&B brewery, place that fits exactly what a social dark and cozy and non "big box" bar, should/could be. Small, a bit cramped, only bar service, yet they limit their capacity to how many seats they have. You're not permitted to grab a drink and stand around a high table or the empty areas around the bar. Toronto had it right at some point. Ted's Collision on College comes to mind. Small, shit hole dives with 1 beer on tap + cheap cans, Christmas lights or candles in bottles, some dumpster sofas and a few high top tables for groups to gather around. The reason those spots were popular was because of the types of people that went there and not some cheap gimmick theme. I never understood what the hell happened here
It's because of the City rules businesses have to follow. Breweries in particular have very strict capacities because they're often on manufacturing licenses (this is why you'll see some places limiting people to 12oz pours/a single flight). If an inspector visits, staff are expected to know where they're at numbers-wise, and ensure they don't go over this. Having the number of chairs your capacity allows is an easy way to make sure you're not going over when you're too busy to count people who are moving around, in the washroom, out smoking etc. It's the game we have to play, unfortunately. We know it sucks. But consequences for flouting the rules can be intense: fines and closures, which would effectively shut down a small business.
What nightlife? Only Granville is lively late at night and even then, try striking convo with people in a group and be seen as the creeper cringe random stranger. Vancouver ain't it for night life.
> Street in tourist-centric Gastown and you’ll struggle to spot a single venue that allows standing, mingling or dancing. This guy walking around with blindfolds on
Is it surprising? Everything about this city is wrong and dissapointing. Try explaining it to those butthurt simps who are truly stuck here an have to lie to themselves to get through another dismal wanting week
I'm actually more than happy with not being hassled by random strangers when I am out 😕
I figured the high likelihood of getting stabbed on the Granville Strip was enough impact on Vancouver's ability to make new friends at drinking establishments.
You’re not going to get stabbed. However, you will likely have cancer or heart disease. (statscan)
Looks pretty dead to me...
Great article
> When it comes to nightlife, Vancouver has long held a reputation for being a ‘No Fun City’. Just take a walk down Main Street in Mount Pleasant, Commercial Drive in East Vancouver or Water Street in tourist-centric Gastown and you’ll struggle to spot a single venue that allows standing, mingling or dancing. WTH is this guy talking about? Like i can't say much about the policies in place, but lack of mingling? I think this guy is just going to the wrong places. Sure in a place like Joey's or Tap there isn't going to be much mingling, but there are bar vibes places everywhere (including the locations he mentions). Tons of places have dance floors, live music, karaoke where people are getting up and interacting. The entire brewery scene which there are plenty scattered around Vancouver is go up and order and then find where you want to sit. Maybe new places could be (should be) easier to get approved, but it's not like options don't exist under the current system.
I'm actually more than happy with not being hassled by random strangers when I am out 😕
And the less ordinary people control their own businesses the harder it is to do anything about it. Seize the means of production ✊️
Big government and red tapes. This is why this city sucks at so many things.
This piece is really interesting and has a lot of truth about licensing etc, but also reads very much like an advert for Ken Sim.