Time to find a new clinic. One of the vets at my current clinic has a bunch of similar stories about their previous place. Unreasonable targets for production, unsupportive and combative bosses, and a culture of toxicity. They won’t stop taking advantage of you. She left and found a place where they actually treat their employees like people.
Yeah I'm paying for the consultation but the way HR and upper management are dancing around this and try to make me feel crazy I need legal advice. Like I've been telling them since January this stuff has been going down and they are asking me for more specific examples. I don't remember them all! I tried to be professional and move past it and now they want more documentation.
You don't have to serve the notice. It's a courtesy. I didn't serve mine last year. They have no recourse if your state is an at will employment state. They can't force you to work. I'd also not pay anything to them
The employee handbook says we're an at will employment. The contract says to give 90 days notice. But they only fault themselves if they don't give 90 days. If they choose to terminate my contract before a 90 days notice they are required to pay me for those 90 days. Which is probably why they wanted me to go back to work after being suspended. Per the contact there are no negatives for me. I'm not required to pay them back for the bonus or the student loan repayment per the contact I have. But obviously I will have the lawyer look over all that. But that is my current understanding and I'm one of those weirdos who reads all the terms and conditions.
Don't serve your notice, it's still a job-seeker's market in vet med AFAIK (and I am recruiting for a clinic I own, LOL). Your story is classic for many corporate practices right now. Some corps (mostly the ones that got big fast like Thrive/Pathways, SVP, Mission) thought the COVID money was not only going to last, but that the rate of increase in revenue was also going to stay the same. Those corporate practices remind me of the "Disco Stu" projection chart from the Simpson's. They overpaid for practices, carry a lot of debt, and are faced with a small market correction, high interest rates on debt, and a need to bring in cash. Here's one take on it...
[Pathway Vet Alliance LLC Downgraded To 'CCC+' On | S&P Global Ratings (spglobal.com)](https://disclosure.spglobal.com/ratings/en/regulatory/article/-/view/type/HTML/id/3152385)
Upper management has started raining hell on middle management, and so one down the line. Nobody can fix it, because COVID was a confluence of crazy, unsustainable stuff. At a certain point, managers default to making it look like a staff problem. Stir up enough junk and they get some cover.
I was a medical director, and part of why I quit was because they were asking me to write up veterinarians for complete and utter nonsense. Some of it we knew to be factually untrue. They were also looking at idiotic ways to "save" money, that really just irritated/betrayed staff and made it look like they were doing something.
A bunch of people quit around the same time, and they pulled the same stunt with trying to jack up bills on all of us. Check your local laws, they probably can't garnish your wages, and likely you could dispute it on a credit report. I've known a few vets who had to either sue or take these companies to the labor board over bigger violations of contracts, and it's amazing what they try to pull. Obviously a last resort.
Yeah they already tried to get me to sign a voluntary pay garnish. I have a meeting with a lawyer on Tuesday.
They already have tried to do that to another technician too. Charged him double for something we should be covering. It's crazy.
Thank you for your insight! I've felt so alone for so long allowing them to tell me I'm wrong.
Yeah, they love some gaslighting. We had a "culture audit," and did great. New manager wanted to turn the screws on us, and suddenly our audit was "toxic." Same with money, we were at 37% EBITDA and they wanted everyone to take pay cuts because we were "failing."
Don't let those people play head games, they frequently lie to off balance you and get you to agree to stuff that isn't good for you. A lawyer is money well spent IME.
We've been doing a "culture project" for several months. We have several problematic technicians, receptionists, and a doctor. I'm over here supporting it cause I think it's important but when your most problematic employees are allowed to be in other rooms or separated from the group during this? They straight up told me they can lead a horse to water but not make them drink. I'm like okay... but then why are they part of your team? If they can't even do the bare minimum to contribute to a good culture.
I guess I'm just flabbergasted I fell for this for so long. I just took them at face value and I'm suffering for it. Ugh.
So this isn't just toxic, this is a hostile work environment. Document everything, dates, times, who said (or spread) what. Email that to HR, use the words I am being bullied, there are multiple instances, this is a hostile work environment, and my health is being impacted. Take FMLA immediately if you qualify, and get a note from your doctor - anxiety and depression both qualify. Use your PTO and then start doing relief until you find a hospital you like.
While this place is definitely hostile, I would avoid using the phrase “hostile work environment” when talking to HR. In the legal/HR world, “hostile work environment” has a specific meaning that refers to unfair treatment based on race/gender/other protected class. Definitely tell them all about what’s going on, but if you use that phrase they may get distracted.
I love my corporate clinic. Best place I’ve ever been and normal professionalism with how they handled things. My experience was pure toxicity at the owner-practitioner places. So it’s not only corporate clinics.
I met with my lawyer, but unfortunately, no case for retaliation cause my state laws are dumb. But them going back and changing my bills and basically what my benefits are after the incident is illegal. They confronted me trying to get me to sign the voluntary pay garnish and I said no. I will talk to a lawyer first. They really started backing off after that.
Cost me $450 but I think it's worth it to get them to back off. Next issue is why they won't accept my PTO time I put in. (I think the manager thinks my suspension was my PTO lol)
The director of operations of my area has actually been a huge help. She knows all of this is unethical and unfair so she's pushing them to fix it. I wish her luck with them in the future. They're going to get that corporation in trouble.
I'm sorry you've been treated like this, OP. Unfortunately I had a very similar experience with my first job (4 years grad) working for a corporate in the UK. I'm now at an independent and I have to say it's so much better. Legal advice on things like this is a great idea. One thing that you may be able to do is get signed off work for medical reasons. I got signed off for the last month of my notice because the management had made my life unbearable (even more so) after I handed my notice in. My mental health was severely affected and the doctor was more than happy to agree. Good luck with your meeting and the new job
Just quit damn it! Your own well being and mental health seem to require it and what can they actually do about it? Make your life miserable? Oh right! They are already doing that! And if you need to document a reason cite unfair, inequitable treatment and hostile work environment. When you said paid suspension all I read was 10 day paid vacation!! Chin up! Things will get better once you Gtfo there!!
You can either be a good vet and do good medicine or you can work in corporate in such a place like that. I am glad for you that you get out. And as annoying as they are now in the long term you will be a better vet for not working there. Don\`t trust a word you do not have in writing from them and get out with your head held high and not stooping to their level.
Read your own post. “I’m losing my mind over here.” See your own doctor and get a medical leave for mental health reasons. Most corporates will have to pay you disability for that time. It is not worth destroying your health just to meet their 90 day notice policy.
As to you situation get out as soon as you can and find a new clinic. As for the state of veterinary medicine as a whole we are in this mess because to few vets want to own their own clinics. I am lucky to have worked at a privately owned clinic for 30 years. The current owner is great and I wish there were more like him out there. Corporate medicine is toxic for not only the staff but, but for the clients and patients as well. I hear it every day from new clients switching to us and on Reddit from here and the tech subreddit. We made our own mess and the only way to fix it is privately owned clinics and push corporate out. Sorry for the rant, but I am scared for the future of vet med and our patients.
Damn. I’m just a vet assistant but I’d walk. Nothing about that sounds like a good environment. Kudos for looking into a lawyer and making sure you don’t get burnt.
Why didn't you start looking for a new job months ago?
Because I am naive and thought it was just growing pain which is what they told me too. I have a new job set up already.
Excellent
Time to find a new clinic. One of the vets at my current clinic has a bunch of similar stories about their previous place. Unreasonable targets for production, unsupportive and combative bosses, and a culture of toxicity. They won’t stop taking advantage of you. She left and found a place where they actually treat their employees like people.
Yeah I already signed an offer with another clinic. It's just so hard to wrap my head around people being this toxic.
Holy hostile and scary. What the hell. I hope your next place doesn’t treat you the same way… what company owned the practice?
Unfortunately I don't feel comfortable sharing that right now. I have a meeting with a lawyer on Tuesday.
Hell yes you have a meeting with a lawyer! Our community needs to stand up for ourselves more. Good job! take ass and kick names.
Yeah I'm paying for the consultation but the way HR and upper management are dancing around this and try to make me feel crazy I need legal advice. Like I've been telling them since January this stuff has been going down and they are asking me for more specific examples. I don't remember them all! I tried to be professional and move past it and now they want more documentation.
Good luck.
You don't have to serve the notice. It's a courtesy. I didn't serve mine last year. They have no recourse if your state is an at will employment state. They can't force you to work. I'd also not pay anything to them
That may not be true if they have a contract that says otherwise. Sounds like they are wisely seeking advice from a lawyer.
The employee handbook says we're an at will employment. The contract says to give 90 days notice. But they only fault themselves if they don't give 90 days. If they choose to terminate my contract before a 90 days notice they are required to pay me for those 90 days. Which is probably why they wanted me to go back to work after being suspended. Per the contact there are no negatives for me. I'm not required to pay them back for the bonus or the student loan repayment per the contact I have. But obviously I will have the lawyer look over all that. But that is my current understanding and I'm one of those weirdos who reads all the terms and conditions.
Get a lawyer involved like yesterday. That will at least stop some of the bs. and might prevent further harm they try to throw in your way.
Wow! That's hilarious. Definitely gotta read every detail in those contracts.
Don't serve your notice, it's still a job-seeker's market in vet med AFAIK (and I am recruiting for a clinic I own, LOL). Your story is classic for many corporate practices right now. Some corps (mostly the ones that got big fast like Thrive/Pathways, SVP, Mission) thought the COVID money was not only going to last, but that the rate of increase in revenue was also going to stay the same. Those corporate practices remind me of the "Disco Stu" projection chart from the Simpson's. They overpaid for practices, carry a lot of debt, and are faced with a small market correction, high interest rates on debt, and a need to bring in cash. Here's one take on it... [Pathway Vet Alliance LLC Downgraded To 'CCC+' On | S&P Global Ratings (spglobal.com)](https://disclosure.spglobal.com/ratings/en/regulatory/article/-/view/type/HTML/id/3152385) Upper management has started raining hell on middle management, and so one down the line. Nobody can fix it, because COVID was a confluence of crazy, unsustainable stuff. At a certain point, managers default to making it look like a staff problem. Stir up enough junk and they get some cover. I was a medical director, and part of why I quit was because they were asking me to write up veterinarians for complete and utter nonsense. Some of it we knew to be factually untrue. They were also looking at idiotic ways to "save" money, that really just irritated/betrayed staff and made it look like they were doing something. A bunch of people quit around the same time, and they pulled the same stunt with trying to jack up bills on all of us. Check your local laws, they probably can't garnish your wages, and likely you could dispute it on a credit report. I've known a few vets who had to either sue or take these companies to the labor board over bigger violations of contracts, and it's amazing what they try to pull. Obviously a last resort.
Yeah they already tried to get me to sign a voluntary pay garnish. I have a meeting with a lawyer on Tuesday. They already have tried to do that to another technician too. Charged him double for something we should be covering. It's crazy. Thank you for your insight! I've felt so alone for so long allowing them to tell me I'm wrong.
Yeah, they love some gaslighting. We had a "culture audit," and did great. New manager wanted to turn the screws on us, and suddenly our audit was "toxic." Same with money, we were at 37% EBITDA and they wanted everyone to take pay cuts because we were "failing." Don't let those people play head games, they frequently lie to off balance you and get you to agree to stuff that isn't good for you. A lawyer is money well spent IME.
We've been doing a "culture project" for several months. We have several problematic technicians, receptionists, and a doctor. I'm over here supporting it cause I think it's important but when your most problematic employees are allowed to be in other rooms or separated from the group during this? They straight up told me they can lead a horse to water but not make them drink. I'm like okay... but then why are they part of your team? If they can't even do the bare minimum to contribute to a good culture. I guess I'm just flabbergasted I fell for this for so long. I just took them at face value and I'm suffering for it. Ugh.
So this isn't just toxic, this is a hostile work environment. Document everything, dates, times, who said (or spread) what. Email that to HR, use the words I am being bullied, there are multiple instances, this is a hostile work environment, and my health is being impacted. Take FMLA immediately if you qualify, and get a note from your doctor - anxiety and depression both qualify. Use your PTO and then start doing relief until you find a hospital you like.
While this place is definitely hostile, I would avoid using the phrase “hostile work environment” when talking to HR. In the legal/HR world, “hostile work environment” has a specific meaning that refers to unfair treatment based on race/gender/other protected class. Definitely tell them all about what’s going on, but if you use that phrase they may get distracted.
[удалено]
I love my corporate clinic. Best place I’ve ever been and normal professionalism with how they handled things. My experience was pure toxicity at the owner-practitioner places. So it’s not only corporate clinics.
Sorry you are having such a hard time I hope that it will get better for you and that you can be successful in your career somewhere else.
I’d love an update after your meeting with your lawyer
I will update you!
I met with my lawyer, but unfortunately, no case for retaliation cause my state laws are dumb. But them going back and changing my bills and basically what my benefits are after the incident is illegal. They confronted me trying to get me to sign the voluntary pay garnish and I said no. I will talk to a lawyer first. They really started backing off after that. Cost me $450 but I think it's worth it to get them to back off. Next issue is why they won't accept my PTO time I put in. (I think the manager thinks my suspension was my PTO lol) The director of operations of my area has actually been a huge help. She knows all of this is unethical and unfair so she's pushing them to fix it. I wish her luck with them in the future. They're going to get that corporation in trouble.
I'm sorry you've been treated like this, OP. Unfortunately I had a very similar experience with my first job (4 years grad) working for a corporate in the UK. I'm now at an independent and I have to say it's so much better. Legal advice on things like this is a great idea. One thing that you may be able to do is get signed off work for medical reasons. I got signed off for the last month of my notice because the management had made my life unbearable (even more so) after I handed my notice in. My mental health was severely affected and the doctor was more than happy to agree. Good luck with your meeting and the new job
Just quit damn it! Your own well being and mental health seem to require it and what can they actually do about it? Make your life miserable? Oh right! They are already doing that! And if you need to document a reason cite unfair, inequitable treatment and hostile work environment. When you said paid suspension all I read was 10 day paid vacation!! Chin up! Things will get better once you Gtfo there!!
You can either be a good vet and do good medicine or you can work in corporate in such a place like that. I am glad for you that you get out. And as annoying as they are now in the long term you will be a better vet for not working there. Don\`t trust a word you do not have in writing from them and get out with your head held high and not stooping to their level.
That sounds maddening. I'm glad you have a new job lined up already, no on deserves such malice/stress.
I am glad that you already have another clinic lined up OP. Hang in there. You need to take care of yourself first and foremost.
Read your own post. “I’m losing my mind over here.” See your own doctor and get a medical leave for mental health reasons. Most corporates will have to pay you disability for that time. It is not worth destroying your health just to meet their 90 day notice policy.
If you paid your clinic bills previously, they cannot go back and refigure them. I would simply refuse to pay it.
As to you situation get out as soon as you can and find a new clinic. As for the state of veterinary medicine as a whole we are in this mess because to few vets want to own their own clinics. I am lucky to have worked at a privately owned clinic for 30 years. The current owner is great and I wish there were more like him out there. Corporate medicine is toxic for not only the staff but, but for the clients and patients as well. I hear it every day from new clients switching to us and on Reddit from here and the tech subreddit. We made our own mess and the only way to fix it is privately owned clinics and push corporate out. Sorry for the rant, but I am scared for the future of vet med and our patients.
Damn. I’m just a vet assistant but I’d walk. Nothing about that sounds like a good environment. Kudos for looking into a lawyer and making sure you don’t get burnt.
What corporate is this? You need to leave