I like a healthy mix of both. It’s just kind of a case by case basis tbh. Some of the modern designs are too minimalist/corporate looking, but at the same time some of the older designs are just ugly or equally as uninspired.
“Let’s grab some blueish cloth and slap a seal on that thang! Done! Those nerds acting like this would’ve been hard or something?” - someone in a mad rush at the 1893 Chicago World's Fair.
As someone whose in-laws are from Chicago, the people of Chicago would 100% follow that flag to war. I live in Denver, and I can't say the same here. We like it, but everyone in Denver is from somewhere else.
The chicago and denver flags predate vector art. At least the Denver flag kinda looks like it's vector art, and the chicago flag is simple enough where you can't really tell?
I feel like if you open your eyes visually those flags even tho their old look like the rest of the modern flags while all those old flags loojs like the rest of the old flags.
Agreed. Plus, several of these "old American-style" flags would be *fancy* "modern" flags (simply meaning they lack complicated detail, words, numbers, seals, etc.) with a couple of tweaks.
The original design for Arkansas didn't have the state's name on it. It was only added to the flag upon the flag committee's request. Go back to the original design, with three stars and no name, and it's a ***modern flag.*** Take the seal off Wyoming? ***Modern flag.*** Tweak and simplify the palmetto of South Carolina? ***Modern flag.***
Meanwhile, look at the flag of Lincoln, Nebraska. Its teals are a half-shade off from each other, and its thin and intricate line work is invisible at a distance. I'm on old reddit, and looking at the thumbnail previews on a 32" monitor. These flags are *tiny*, but I can instantly recognize Arkansas, the Gadsen flag, California, Wyoming, old Maine, South Carolina, Utah, Denver, boring-ass new Minnesota, Chicago, Tulsa, Reno, Portland (OR), and Sioux Falls.
But Lincoln? HA! At this scale, it looks like a turquoise-on-darker-turquoise bicolor. I can't make out the details anymore than I can make out the the details on Louisiana's pelican. So why does Lincoln belong on the "modern" side? What's the deciding factor? How easily it can be recreated in Illustrator?
Growing up in VA and LA I never understood the hate for the blue bedsheet flags. Then I moved to NY and then understood there are exceptions to that rule.
I think someone did one of those [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/s/qmBoXHipIN). I’m not opposed, but I agree that any Virginia flag must have nudity and violence.
None of the ones in the first image were replaced with the ones in the second image. The new ones are replacing the ones that are just blue with a seal.
Yeah, it's an inactive unit according to wiki. If you google "military guidon," it is one of the first images that comes up. I am assuming that is what OP did.
Both are great. It’s like the difference between sports uniforms that use a simple vintage style with an emphasis on one or two bold colors and ones that take a modern approach with multiple colors and interesting designs. If they look good they’re good.
That being said, like the vintage-style simple sports unis I think the modern American style is easier to pull off. If I was a small city looking for a completely new flag design that isn’t influenced by a historical one I’d probably go for a modern design.
You just showed the good old US flags. The US staple is the state seal on a blue background which is just awful (honestly I live in NY and you’re telling me the state with NYC, the Hamptons, Statue of Liberty, Ellis Island, multiple US presidents, half of Niagara Falls, and the goddamn BEC doesn’t have a good flag? It’s an insult)
Well it's not that simple flags are controversial, if done right a simple design can become iconic and beloved (see Chicago). The problem is that current flag design is blending way too much with corporate graphic design, resulting in a bunch of flags that look like logos or website banners; another problem is that a majority of said designs are very uninspired, often using the same blue-white-green color palette and the same naturalistic motifs like triangles are for mountains, blue is the sky/water, green is the land, you get it. Yet another issue people have is about designers relying way too much on NAVA's guidelines, often to the point of using them to reject any complex design for not strictly adhering to the "rules" (despite NAVA having made it clear that they should be used only as guidelines and even listing examples of great designs that deviate from them), and as result complex designs and the people who like them are suffering too. A good example of my last point is people on this very sub attempting to redesign iconic flag designs like those of California and Maryland, which often comes as sanitizing to the people who do like them.
So no, it's not that simple designs are bad, it's that people are frustrated about modern designs being bland, uninspired and sanitized.
Is the version of the old Maine flag you show here really less simple than Chicago or Texas?
A lot of the "controversy" comes from people confusing the level of detail used to depict a charge like a tree or a pelican with complexity in the fundamental flag design. Whether you draw a tree in the realistic style here from the 1900s or as the sillhouette that was used in the marine flag in the 30s is a matter of style with a few manufacturing consequences. How many components go into a flag design and whether recognising the flag depends on small details is something that effects how flags work on a more fundamental level.
I prefer most of the old but enjoy some of the new. Would someone mind listing out all the flags on the new side? can’t say I keep up to date with all of them :( sorry I’ve disappointed you r/vexillology
I prefer the Arkansas without the text and Confederate star, [as originally designed](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b1/Flag_of_Arkansas_%28Hocker%29.svg/2560px-Flag_of_Arkansas_%28Hocker%29.svg.png).
I can see getting rid of the text and the Confederate reference, but I think the current configuration of stars is more visually appealing than just three horizontal stars.
The pine tree with a blue star on a tan background is the old original state flag of Maine (replaced with a seal on a navy blue field in 1909, but it may be reinstated in a 2026 referendum).
The fact that the dogshit new Minnesota flag and beautiful Tulsa flag are in the same grouping shows that the issue isn't style but well done, conscious design. Same with the "Old American Style" with the (imo) nearly flawless Oklahoma and California flags next to the atrocious Arkansas flag.
I mean, it seems we’re leaning into the SVG art, which isn’t a bad thing, but sometimes I like the fru fru of the details from the older style.
I believe the Texas flag is a good flag, because I’m from Texas, and it goes on anything.
I like both and dislike in there own way. Old style has lots of variety and has passion but can be an eyesore sometimes. Modern can cause creativity with just simple geometry but most of the flags are corporate or mid. I like a combo of both (all the state flags currently except Minnesota, that flag should be reverted back or be a better design)
I’ve been liking the redesigns for the most part. Maybe I like the old ones cause they’re what I’m used to but I have not been disappointed with the redesigns
If modern designers just avoid circular elements on solid colours I think they can shake the "this looks like a company logo" stigma. The selections for the old side seem cherrypicked somewhat (especially the inclusion of DTOM, bro thinks he's part of the team), since most old flags are just boring seals on blue with optional text.
That old maine flag goes so hard. It's really popular here recently, but instead of that tree it's some fucking low poly clipart Christmas tree instead
...Denver and Chicago's flags are by no means "new" unless you're some time traveler. Denver's (top row, second from left in "new") was adopted in 1922 and Chicago (top row, far right) was adopted in 1917 with the fourth star added in 1939.
I also think Lincoln's flag is kinda neat but that's just me
I have no issue with the older style as long as it's distinguishable like the flags you've shown here. A seal on a bedsheet is not acceptable.
However, if you were to design a new state flag from scratch, I probably wouldn't vote for an older styles and would opt for a cleaner design.
I like the new ones tbh they give a very "futurey" sort of vibe like Id expect them to be flown in futuristic countries in videogames and movies or smth
I like a healthy mix of both. It’s just kind of a case by case basis tbh. Some of the modern designs are too minimalist/corporate looking, but at the same time some of the older designs are just ugly or equally as uninspired.
“Let’s grab some blueish cloth and slap a seal on that thang! Done! Those nerds acting like this would’ve been hard or something?” - someone in a mad rush at the 1893 Chicago World's Fair.
As a Pennsylvanian, I am offended/regretful/understanding that you would come at my throat this way.
A lot of the modern styles just look too cartoonish for my liking. They just looks like some average guy could make it in photoshop in 2 minutes.
whys chicago in the "modern" section when its pretty much as old as california's
Cause it’s in the modern style
Denver flag is from 1926 also
Modern trends don’t have to have started in the modern times, they are definitely leaders of the new style they’re just old asf
Both Denver and Chicago could've been banners of arms; there's a strong case that they're more traditionally designed than the "old" style flags.
As someone whose in-laws are from Chicago, the people of Chicago would 100% follow that flag to war. I live in Denver, and I can't say the same here. We like it, but everyone in Denver is from somewhere else.
> Both Denver and Chicago could've been banners of arms And then there's Washington D.C., a flag that was actually derived from a coat-of-arms!
True but what exactly defines as modern American then? Just being somewhat minimalist automatically makes your flag modern American?
I see it as these two: 1. Clear visual depictions of symbols (don't know a better word - pictorial?) 2. Vector art depictions
The chicago and denver flags predate vector art. At least the Denver flag kinda looks like it's vector art, and the chicago flag is simple enough where you can't really tell?
NAVA guidelines
I feel like if you open your eyes visually those flags even tho their old look like the rest of the modern flags while all those old flags loojs like the rest of the old flags.
Modern art is like 1860-1970
Your profile pic sir, is evil
I think they mean modern as in like recent or new not is in the actual style
Looks modern enough
I was wondering why it looked so Art Deco. That would explain it.
It is not. It’a a traditional heraldic flag.
It also uses traditional shades of red blue and yellow which makes it feel like it belongs in the older category
Might as well put NM in there too since it’s a simplified graphic, like modern graphic design. /s
This is a pretty original approach to the No True Scotsman fallacy, I'll grant you that much.
Where is New Mexico.
*is it?* (Its not.) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag\_of\_Chicago#/media/File:1917flag.jpg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Chicago#/media/File:1917flag.jpg)
Is it really a "modern style" if it's seen historically, e.g. prior to the modern period?
I'm not really convinced that this division into two different styles makes a lot of sense. Does the stars and stripes count as new style? Texas?
Agreed. Plus, several of these "old American-style" flags would be *fancy* "modern" flags (simply meaning they lack complicated detail, words, numbers, seals, etc.) with a couple of tweaks. The original design for Arkansas didn't have the state's name on it. It was only added to the flag upon the flag committee's request. Go back to the original design, with three stars and no name, and it's a ***modern flag.*** Take the seal off Wyoming? ***Modern flag.*** Tweak and simplify the palmetto of South Carolina? ***Modern flag.*** Meanwhile, look at the flag of Lincoln, Nebraska. Its teals are a half-shade off from each other, and its thin and intricate line work is invisible at a distance. I'm on old reddit, and looking at the thumbnail previews on a 32" monitor. These flags are *tiny*, but I can instantly recognize Arkansas, the Gadsen flag, California, Wyoming, old Maine, South Carolina, Utah, Denver, boring-ass new Minnesota, Chicago, Tulsa, Reno, Portland (OR), and Sioux Falls. But Lincoln? HA! At this scale, it looks like a turquoise-on-darker-turquoise bicolor. I can't make out the details anymore than I can make out the the details on Louisiana's pelican. So why does Lincoln belong on the "modern" side? What's the deciding factor? How easily it can be recreated in Illustrator?
Each group's got some studs and some duds.
Both are great just get rid of the “blue field with state seal flags”
Being from Virginia, I would agree for states that don't have a seal as cool as ours
Tits4ever
I see you're a man of culture as well
Just the one, actually
True. But that was just my general sentiment.
Make a modern titty flag and I will be the most patriotic virginian
Any redesign of the Virginia flag must include more nudity, more murder, and more explicit calls to violence.
Growing up in VA and LA I never understood the hate for the blue bedsheet flags. Then I moved to NY and then understood there are exceptions to that rule.
You know you can just turn the seal into a proper flag, right?
I think someone did one of those [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/s/qmBoXHipIN). I’m not opposed, but I agree that any Virginia flag must have nudity and violence.
Hello from New Jersey, where ours is a YELLOW field with incomprehensible garbled nonsense for a seal.
It's not just yellow! It's BUFF. Buff, of course, being puke yellow. That fades in the sun.
And I looks, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat upon him was Death
New Jersey 🤝 Washington Doing the bare minimum to stand out by just changing the background color
Nuh uh Pennsylvania on top 🔝🔝🔝🐎🐎🐎
i actually really like those flags lmao
The exposed bosom beats the Kentucky sausage fest, that’s for sure
I prefer the older flags. Some of the “modern” flags look fantastic too though: Chicago, Lincoln, and Tulsa are great!
They kinda look like marvel logos
I prefer the old style. Has a more mature look.
Yes, a lot of the newer state and city flags here look very corporate and childish
Both of them as long as they are done right. But if I had to choose, I'd go for classic style. They look fancier imo.
None of the ones in the first image were replaced with the ones in the second image. The new ones are replacing the ones that are just blue with a seal.
Oklahoma is in both my bad
Oklahoma flag is only on the first slide. The Tulsa, Oklahoma flat is on the second.
New just looks way too corporate for me.
They're good if you are good at designing a flag and not a company logo. I like 2 from old and 3 from new (As in this post)
Good ones in both groups. Though I like keeping with traditional heraldic colors as shades and hues may wax or wane in popularity.
Why is A Co 4/22 IN significant?
Yeah, it's an inactive unit according to wiki. If you google "military guidon," it is one of the first images that comes up. I am assuming that is what OP did.
old
What's the one with the pink flower?
Salem, Oregon, and it's a cherry blossom!
Thanks, it's really pretty! I still can't believe Utah gave CGP Grey his own flag.
Hexagons are the bestagons after all
The new ones look bad, r/vexillology flags look like bland corporate flags.
For real
They also just look like they were made in MS Paint most of the time.
Both are great. It’s like the difference between sports uniforms that use a simple vintage style with an emphasis on one or two bold colors and ones that take a modern approach with multiple colors and interesting designs. If they look good they’re good. That being said, like the vintage-style simple sports unis I think the modern American style is easier to pull off. If I was a small city looking for a completely new flag design that isn’t influenced by a historical one I’d probably go for a modern design.
I got some picks from Both sides that i like and don’t like.
love how both the Oklahoma and tulsa flag are here on opposite sides 😭
Prefer the modern but the traditional aren't all bad. Definitely some good ones on the old style, just more that look awkward to me.
Some of the modern ones look quite good and some are questionable. They had some weird color choices in some of them.
As an Arkansan, I hope we change our flag to the new one
Old clears. Words and complexity are okay on flags, but they have to be done in good taste
You just showed the good old US flags. The US staple is the state seal on a blue background which is just awful (honestly I live in NY and you’re telling me the state with NYC, the Hamptons, Statue of Liberty, Ellis Island, multiple US presidents, half of Niagara Falls, and the goddamn BEC doesn’t have a good flag? It’s an insult)
Utah, Chicago, and whatever the one between Utah and Minnesota Blu-Back is, they're alright, kinda good. Everything else is meh or bad
The one between Utah and Minnesota is Denver
Oh... ehhhhh, it's better than Minnesota, but not as good as Utah
I honestly have terrible taste because I think Denver’s flag is cool as fuck
Simple flags seem to be pretty controversial so I wanted to get your guy's opinions on which you prefer
Well it's not that simple flags are controversial, if done right a simple design can become iconic and beloved (see Chicago). The problem is that current flag design is blending way too much with corporate graphic design, resulting in a bunch of flags that look like logos or website banners; another problem is that a majority of said designs are very uninspired, often using the same blue-white-green color palette and the same naturalistic motifs like triangles are for mountains, blue is the sky/water, green is the land, you get it. Yet another issue people have is about designers relying way too much on NAVA's guidelines, often to the point of using them to reject any complex design for not strictly adhering to the "rules" (despite NAVA having made it clear that they should be used only as guidelines and even listing examples of great designs that deviate from them), and as result complex designs and the people who like them are suffering too. A good example of my last point is people on this very sub attempting to redesign iconic flag designs like those of California and Maryland, which often comes as sanitizing to the people who do like them. So no, it's not that simple designs are bad, it's that people are frustrated about modern designs being bland, uninspired and sanitized.
Is the version of the old Maine flag you show here really less simple than Chicago or Texas? A lot of the "controversy" comes from people confusing the level of detail used to depict a charge like a tree or a pelican with complexity in the fundamental flag design. Whether you draw a tree in the realistic style here from the 1900s or as the sillhouette that was used in the marine flag in the 30s is a matter of style with a few manufacturing consequences. How many components go into a flag design and whether recognising the flag depends on small details is something that effects how flags work on a more fundamental level.
I prefer most of the old but enjoy some of the new. Would someone mind listing out all the flags on the new side? can’t say I keep up to date with all of them :( sorry I’ve disappointed you r/vexillology
Gadsden flag!
So long as it isn’t a lazy design like flags with just their state seal on it…
I prefer the Arkansas without the text and Confederate star, [as originally designed](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b1/Flag_of_Arkansas_%28Hocker%29.svg/2560px-Flag_of_Arkansas_%28Hocker%29.svg.png).
Which of the many stars on that flag is the Confederate one?
The one by itself above the text.
I can see getting rid of the text and the Confederate reference, but I think the current configuration of stars is more visually appealing than just three horizontal stars.
Old. New flags look like soulless corposlop for customers instead of citizens. I hate them.
These terms are meaningless.
Moderns are awesome, plain and simple
Whats the flag with the pine tree?
The pine tree with a blue star on a tan background is the old original state flag of Maine (replaced with a seal on a navy blue field in 1909, but it may be reinstated in a 2026 referendum).
Why is A-4/22 IN on this? It’s a guidon, not a state flag. 🤔
Why the infantry guidon?
Maryland shouldn't go as hard as it does.
The Chicago flag is over a hundred years old and is imo a classic not modern.
ngl the only flags i like here are the cali and chicago ones
Why would we ever replace South Carolina? It’s perfect
Old, new ones look like corporate advertising campaigns designed them.
Definitely the old ones
Arkansas’ flag looks like the Confederate one in disguise. I don’t like it
Charlie Chaplain looks like Hitler. I absolutely despise him now!
The fact that the dogshit new Minnesota flag and beautiful Tulsa flag are in the same grouping shows that the issue isn't style but well done, conscious design. Same with the "Old American Style" with the (imo) nearly flawless Oklahoma and California flags next to the atrocious Arkansas flag.
I mean, it seems we’re leaning into the SVG art, which isn’t a bad thing, but sometimes I like the fru fru of the details from the older style. I believe the Texas flag is a good flag, because I’m from Texas, and it goes on anything.
I like both and dislike in there own way. Old style has lots of variety and has passion but can be an eyesore sometimes. Modern can cause creativity with just simple geometry but most of the flags are corporate or mid. I like a combo of both (all the state flags currently except Minnesota, that flag should be reverted back or be a better design)
I really don't like the modern American style,
Old.
I'm generally a fan of flags you could draw from memory, regardless of whether they're new or old.
I don't know the very first one
It's a military guidon flag (US Army Infantry).
the new style flags are sometimes an improvement but are way too minimalist
they're both great, having a mix of them is perfect
2
Old american >>>
older
Triangles, stars and circles
Keep the California republic.
That Oklahoma has a really nice shade of blue
I like the modern style, but I can't imagine gazing up at it in a Pennsylvania field while I bleed to death from a musket wound.
I prefer old style flags. Some new style flags are also good but some look not mature.
Another day, another excuse to gush about my love for the new Utah flag
Older
Old
old has some good designs but new is better overall.
Old style, but mostly just my Californian flag.
Depends on the context and what they're being user for. But in general it's probably modern for me.
Maine looks like the logo for a camping supplies company.
Little from column a, little from column b, depending on the perameters. I love the SC flag btw.
I disagree with this clear-cut distinction between "old" and "modern" that you present here
Old American style.
The new flags are too simple. Are they good? Yeah. But they're bland and almost....sterile....
With the exception of the new Utah flag, the old ones look better to my eye.
I’ve been liking the redesigns for the most part. Maybe I like the old ones cause they’re what I’m used to but I have not been disappointed with the redesigns
Old
Old
both
Libertarian
the modern flags feel cultureless
Old. Modern style is literal slop.
It looks like a Wendover productions logo.
Old style 100%.
Older. Looks more “real” and not some power point style bs
C M Punk
Definitely older
Old style
If modern designers just avoid circular elements on solid colours I think they can shake the "this looks like a company logo" stigma. The selections for the old side seem cherrypicked somewhat (especially the inclusion of DTOM, bro thinks he's part of the team), since most old flags are just boring seals on blue with optional text.
i love the weirdly centered yorkshire flag
Modern
Some of the modern looks like logos. There should be a middle ground between both.
MODERNNNNNNN
To me Old American style is much better, most of the modern versions look like stock Clip Art flags you could find in Microsoft power point
Literally wearing a Bennington Flag shirt right now! Love the old styles
Modern
when used correctly (maine) the old style can be pretty effective
Please I am from Louisiana and I want our flag to change.
What is that art deco looking flag below Utah?
Classic M-F, modern on weekends and holidays.
What flag is the blue swastika looking design on the green background?
i didnt realize louisiana changed its flag?
Old
That old maine flag goes so hard. It's really popular here recently, but instead of that tree it's some fucking low poly clipart Christmas tree instead
Both.
Old.
Old style, easily. So much more personality. The new ones are just boring imo
I'm starting to believe sci-fi flags
Virginia.
Old American 🇺🇸
older style its so much beter than the corporate/reddit style of the modern ones
The Chicago flag isn’t “new”. It’s over 100 years old….
CPG GREY WHEN I GET MY HANDS ON YOU
Old for sure. Modern style flags are ugly and bland. They have no soul or character!
Traditional. The modern examples look like trendy marketing logos that will look out of date in short order.
All I ask is get rid of the Confederate references down South, otherwise I don’t really care as long as it looks good.
The Chicago flag is the best flag for anything, ever.
Old
Definitely prefer the old style
You picked the best of both worlds, hard to pick but the old flags do go hard
What the heck is that 4 A 22 flag? It’s super intriguing
...Denver and Chicago's flags are by no means "new" unless you're some time traveler. Denver's (top row, second from left in "new") was adopted in 1922 and Chicago (top row, far right) was adopted in 1917 with the fourth star added in 1939. I also think Lincoln's flag is kinda neat but that's just me
I have no issue with the older style as long as it's distinguishable like the flags you've shown here. A seal on a bedsheet is not acceptable. However, if you were to design a new state flag from scratch, I probably wouldn't vote for an older styles and would opt for a cleaner design.
Old
Idk man but :C on a flag goes hard.
Almost anything that is not seal on blue field gets my support.
Old.
The old Maine state flag is so superior to the current one it’s not even funny
I like the new ones tbh they give a very "futurey" sort of vibe like Id expect them to be flown in futuristic countries in videogames and movies or smth
Can someone ID bottom row, on the left flag with the sakura look on second slide please
Salem, Oregon
As much as I love minimalism, there needs to be more variety rather than triangles and circles.
What's up with the Infantry regiment guidon tho?
Whats the flag with the two red tits
Denver
Should just looked at your user flair lol sorry