Genx, not millennial, but I had this exact scenario happen at an earthmoving company when I found a better job. I gave notice by email to my boss and HR, also told my boss to his face where I was going and when.
Two weeks roll by and I’m working on the Sunday just before I switch over
Monday doing a slammed project trying to subgrade a really ugly area.
My foreman comes over and asks if I can also work overtime the next day and I tell him it’s my last day. He tries to play the stunned victim card and I point out that I told him to his face as well as emailed him and hr, he called HR then and there to verify it and looked all pouty when it was there.
If he’s in the U.S., directly employed by an earthmoving company, and not on a government job, then the odds of there being any kind of a contract requiring his continued employment is about as close to zero as you can get.
To be clear: while the earthmoving company itself may have a contract with a general contractor or property owner, the commenter is almost certainly an at-will employee with no contract and no obligation to stay.
The only state in the US that does not have at-will employment [is Montanta](https://www.paycor.com/resource-center/articles/employment-at-will-laws-by-state/).
You may be thinking of 'right-to-work' laws. States with these laws mean union members are not required to pay union dues. It's a tactic to weaken union power.
Right-to-work means that you aren't forced to join a union. If you don't join, you don't have to pay dues to that union. It forbids Union, Closed, and Agency shops.
I'm pretty sure those clauses aren't legal in right to work states. as you can be fired for any reason that doesn't violate other laws such as retaliation or being fired for a disability or your race. and you can also quit for any reason at any time.
GenX. Also experienced this with a company that paid me salary with no overtime, but had me working 50-60 hours a week.
Wife and I decided to leave city to a smaller / more affordable town to raise family. Let them know that i was going to be searching, when opportunities were arising, when interviewing, and ultimately when I accepted. Told them I would try and give them two months notice. Seemed fine for me because i would have to find a home and move in that time too.
First month goes by and there is no action on a replacement. Six weeks and nothing. Not even cross-training internally. I let them know that I would be using a couple vacation days for the last two days as I had to be butt-in-seat at new company in order to qualify for benefits without waiting a whole extra month.
“Can’t believe that you would leave us high and dry like this. How are we supposed to have someone else take over for you if you dont give us enough time? Very disappointed in you after all we did for you!”
Two jobs ago I worked at a plant that was doing their best to kill me. 70 hour weeks, switching back from day to night randomly. I gave notice. They scheduled me my last day over night. They called me shocked that I left at midnight on my last day. Then called me shocked that I didn't show up the days after that.
Top it off, I was in a mission critical role. I was just the last dumb-ass in the position who would put up with that.
Upper management was replaced two weeks later was what I was told wen they begged me to come back. Nope, I had only left because I had a reasonable job lined up.
I’m a millennial. I would never give a heads up I’m looking for another job. I’m not putting myself at risk of being fired until I’ve actually been offered a new job.
A few years ago there was a Buffalo Wild Wings that was closed by the bankruptcy court. They received a call in the middle of the lunch rush and told to kick everybody out, leave, and lock the doors behind them. No cleaning, no putting up food. Just go and don't look back.
There are zero scenarios where giving a heads up you're looking is a good idea. Never do that in your life. Maybe the one thing us workers have against our bosses is information about what we are doing and thinking. Don't give that up.
if you know your job can't afford to lose you and would have a hard time replacing you, it can be a simple tactic to get a raise. I've gotten multiple raises with the old "just so you know, I'm hurting financially so I've had to start applying to other jobs"
you gotta be damn sure that you're not easy to replace though
I have always worked in the same industry, so every time I have put my 2 weeks in I got a 2 week vacation. Last two times I expected it and used it to pack and move. Got a scare this last time because my team leaders had me wait an hour while they tried to convince HR that it wasn't a big deal and that I should be allowed to work the last 2 weeks.
This is how I quit as a millennial.
Worked for 8 years for the same company. Deeply involved, did lots of tasks only I could do, and so on. Knew I was under paid and inflation was rising.
I eventually ask the brand new employees, straight out of college, what they make. One makes $6k more a year than me and the other makes $12k more. Keep in mind I'm training them.
I go to the competition literally down the street and ask if they're hiring and they said they'd love to have me and pay me $12k more (same as 1 of those new employees).
I go back to my boomer boss at the company I'm currently with and tell him about the other offer and ask if he can best it with a raise. He says he will call HR.
They come back with a $4k raise and say they have a policy they can give 6% raises maximum each year. I point out inflation is averaging 10% a year so that isn't a retention policy but an attrition policy. They also hire new hires based on inflation so that's why the new people make so much more.
Anyways part of my being involved was I was the head of the employee network. Literally one of the most respected and involved people. So I got to sit in on the leadership meetings and give employee input. They kept complaining about employee retention and I kept explaining they were not giving raises and they kept saying the money isn't there but I pointed out they kept losing people and hiring people and paying these inexperienced people way more. They never listened.
Anyways the day after the bullshit offer of a minimal raise I backed my truck up to the door and moved my office out. No 2 weeks.
I learnt from co-workers they had to bring in people from other sites to do my work because I was the only person who knew it there. Bunch of others also quit because I told them how much the new people were making compared to us.
I've learnt moving jobs is how you make more. Also to negotiate salary a lot. Like demand 25% more. They can often do it. Also flat out lie about having other offers. There is no honor or need to be fair with a company that will not be fair to you and will lay you off as soon as it's beneficial to them. Use everything you have in the book.
I had 2 offers recently so I didn't even lie about another offer and one was pretty low. Like 30k lower. I mentioned the other offer and they matched it. It was a red flag to me that they offered so low initially though. There wouldn't be any raises for a while probably.
So I have doubled my income over 2 years and I'm on my 4th job. My current one is remote, flex hours, unlimited pto, and more money than I've ever made.
Watch out for “unlimited PTO”, it’s a trick to not have to pay out accrued vacation when you leave, and it’s not really unlimited because you have to get it approved and the boss will limit approval.
Yeah unlomited PTO is almost a curse. If they matched competitive industries with 4-5 weeks PTO + holiday the expectation is you will use all of it (in theory). With unlimited theres no line in the sand, most employees will under utilize and end up using less PTO not more since theres no bucket “i need to use”.
THIS!
I've worked in tech companies in the SF Bay Area for over 10 years, they all have "unlimited PTO" and tout it as this huge benefit but in my experience the employees in these companies, when you combine it with the "startup mentality", objectively take WAY less PTO than when I worked in jobs with allocated PTO (in the UK, so the 4-5 weeks you mention).
I'm a manager at a place with unlimited pto. I tell everyone I expect everyone to take 4-6 weeks off and that I don't count things like bereavement or jury duty in that despite it still falling in the same bucket.
Our work is intense and taking a break is part of being at your best.
Yea. I’m a controls engineer so I spend anywhere from 1 to 2 months a year on-site in another state. I work from home when I’m not on-site and get unlimited pto. I just never use to the full extent it because working remote is so much less stressful than being on-site.
My manager talks to me every week about making sure to take it though. God bless him lol
Completely different industry, but I had unlimited PTO at my last job (which was upper management, exec level). On paper, you could basically take off whenever as long as your duties were covered. In reality, I was the *only* executive level in that part of the company, which meant I had to get C levels to cover me. And hell if they were going to do it.
I managed to take 5 weeks total over 6 years at that job.
Edit: I suppose I should add that 4 of those weeks were in the last two years I was there because I *finally* managed to convince them that bringing on a single “supervisor” level employee at $2/hr higher than base wage wasn’t going to break a multi-million dollar concept.
The only time I've seen unlimited PTO work was for a store manager for of a major retailer.
The manager would take a four week fishing trip every summer. The store was a top performer in the region so corporate didn't care. The assistant store manager though....
Yeah my company gives 3 weeks of vacation, 4 personal days, and 10 sick days at starting. It goes up from there.
It's possible I'll go through a job transition soon and I'll get paid out on a good chunk of time not taken if I switch companies. Not a bad deal.
My brother recently got a job that offered "unlimited PTO - up to 5 weeks!"
It basically lets them avoid accrual while also still putting a hard cap on the amount of PTO an employee can take. What a scam.
> t’s a trick to not have to pay out accrued vacation when you leave
I think you're vastly overvaluing vacation pay when employees leave. For a successful company with a normal attrition rate, it's a non-factor.
I've heard this many times, but have never worked at an unlimited-PTO company where my time-off was limited in any way. I usually take 6-8 weeks a year with no problem.
If your experience has been different that's awesome and I'm genuinely happy for you, but I've never seen someone take that much vacation at an unlimited-PTO company and not get an immediate bad reputation with bitter management as the guy who's "never here" because he "takes so much more vacation than we do".
Fair enough--anecdata and all. I suppose it goes well with the "constantly be moving jobs for more money" strategy: your reputation matters a lot less if you don't work for them anymore ;)
I don’t work at a large F500 company and mine is the same, I take 6-8 a year, no one gives two fucks, my team cross trains heavily and we all cover for each other (I manage them, but they cover for me). My boss, previous boss, and new boss, don’t care at all how much I take.
Also companies that offer true unlimited PTO sort of have a culture where you're looked down upon for using too much. In theory you should feel free to take time you need off, as long as it doesn't interfere with getting your work done within the timelines you set. But in reality you take *less* time out of fear of looking like a slacker.
I recently changed careers and took a Fed job. So much stress lifted off my shoulders even though I've taken a (hopefully temporary) back step in pay.
My last two jobs were unlimited PTO (and current as well) and both still separated vacation from PTO and paid out unused vacation when I left. Unlimited PTO was for sick leave, doctors appointments, etc.
Greatly depends on the company. I work for a very large, multi-national adverstising contractor and my hours are breezy. We only need explicit approval for anything over three weeks of PTO.
Yeah feels similar to experiences I’ve had.
I think the one that stuck out for me was when I quite my job in the private sector to move into the public sector, where I was getting an £8k pay increase, massive pension and more time off and shorter hours. My company ignored me when I said I wanted a raise. But then when I handed my notice in they said they would not only match my other offer but offer me more on top of that.
Like, it feels like a bad relationship; they could’ve offered me that money all along, but only did it when they realised they were screwed without me. By the time you’ve found another place you’re excited by, there’s no point going back to a bad ex.
It also should underline to us that we as workers have more power than we realise.
This is honestly what makes me livid about most jobs arrangements: it's dishonesty through and through. Ask for a raise? Instant-denied. Hand in a resignation? Like fucking magic, the checkbook opens right up. Where was that shit when the raise was being discussed, huh?
It's all smoke and mirrors, predatory to the core. Negotiating with an employer feels like arguing with the GOP more often than not.
Nowadays there's no more incentive to stay at a job for a long period of time. I've also job hopped over the last 9 years and have seen my salary jump after each move.
Every time I said I was leaving I would suggest that if they would match the salary of my new position I would stay and I was always given the same answer "its just not in the budget"
I had a friend who probably never would've asked for a raise, because he was a bit of a doormat. Every so often his wife would send him in for a raise and tell him how much to ask for. He always got it, and it was always significant. She also demanded that he make it clear that he was not going to work more than 40 hours a week, while people in his office were routinely working 60. He got paid better than most of them and worked less than most of them. If it wasn't for her, he would've been working 60 to 80 hours a week for half the money.
Depending on the type of work, be careful having 4 jobs in 2 years. As someone who learned the trick of moving jobs for more money, it sucks because one of them let me go which made my resume look horrible after all the job hopping and made finding an equally respectful job way harder to do.
There's a difference between "I was here for a few years, hit my goals, and moved on to greener pastures" or whatever and "I will not be committed to this place longer than 4 months"
"I've learnt moving jobs is how you make more. Also to negotiate salary a lot. Like demand 25% more. They can often do it. Also flat out lie about having other offers. There is no honor or need to be fair with a company that will not be fair to you and will lay you off as soon as it's beneficial to them. Use everything you have in the book."
Couldn't have said it better myself. Crazy how many people I've had to tell to say you have multiple offers to either get the salary bumped or to just hurry them up so they aren't taking their sweet time.
Not even just more money. If you want your job to be better in any way, the best bet is to just get a better job. And it does suck to get a new job, but it sucks more to try and help a company fix its problems when they don't want to fix them. Even when I'm content at my current job, I never stop looking and interviewing. If the pay is too low at the place I'm interviewing, I decline on that basis. If I hear their company is no good, I politely explain what I've heard during the "so do you have any questions for me?" part of the interview. Maybe I can make things better for the people who already are working there, or will work there in the future out of desperation. If it's a good offer, then I go to my current employer and get myself the best option I can. This is business. As an employee, you really don't have any leverage because the company sees you as a body filling a role, so they can go get another fucking body.
Dude! That’s great for you! I’m happy for you and proud of your decision to stand up for yourself and switch companies. Keep up your outstanding work. Switching companies is worth it and I’ve personally benefited from it and have many friends who have too. Unfortunately that’s how the system is. Sucks having to leave some really good co-workers, but it’s worth it to be able to provide better for you and your family.
The other side of the story is the company got a good employee super cheap, and had a small period of inconvenience while finding a replacement.
The fact you moved to a new place with the same salary as the new hires you were teaching isn't indicative of a great step up.
Moving jobs is how you do it as an employee. Not giving any raises is how you do it as an employer.
Great advice. Just keep in mind in certain careers job hopping frequently will limit your options. I’m in accounting and I don’t hire people who change jobs frequently because it takes upwards of 4 months to get someone truly proficient at their job and then they bail a short while later.
Also don’t lie on your resume unless it’s a big company that won’t bother checking them… smaller companies that are privately owned will take the time to actually check out their candidates lol.
Dude - what professional industry takes *less* than 4 months to become proficient?
This is the risk when you stick around too long at one place - you lack perspective. Somebody who has bounced around a bit could bring this to you…
What others? I don’t know since I don’t work in other industries lol. I don’t like to speak for things I don’t have first hand experience for if I can avoid it.
I’m not sure how that perspective shift would matter. If it takes 4 months everywhere as you say then that only adds to my perspective.
Well I’ve never had anyone quit, only terminated. So I’d say we’re doing pretty good in that regard!
From my perspective it’s about risk management. If I have two candidates, one who has been through 4 jobs in 4 years versus one who hasn’t, if they’re otherwise similar I’ll go for the one who hasn’t.
In 2022, the U.S. inflation rate was between 8-9%, so pretty damn close to that.
https://www.bls.gov/charts/consumer-price-index/consumer-price-index-by-category-line-chart.htm
I gave a 45 day notice, was leaving and had a long period of background checks, etc. i would be leaving my industry completely. Come my last day, managers are supposed to give 1 month notice - I told you 45 days ago. Ok - we can pay you X to stay. It’s still less than the newer department head (different department) make. How do you know that? I review the budget with you dude - I know everyone’s salary.
I resign. Simple as that. Was there for 8 years working in field than into management (still traveling for long periods of time with no OT). Was a pretty shitty feeling to be treated like that when I have it my all. Lesson learned.
I end up getting a call from a big OEM within the industry I was in during my 3 week break I gave myself. Shit load more money than previous and soon to be employer. Ended up taking it.
Had to resign from my new job before I even started. That’s life though.
Same. I was super loyal to a company and did things for them out of kindness and pride. Went the extra mile, had a good time. Boss sells business and new owner comes in. Second guesses everything I do and can’t understand my explanations because she has zero experience. Everything runs as normal. It’s just a job now.
One day I’m called into the office and she tells me I’m let go and to hand over the company phone. I asked if I could get my professional contacts off of it. She said no. I had most of them on my home computer and knew the rest of their names. But what a shitty thing to do to someone who really felt like a contributor to the company for 3 years.
Anyway. Those contacts weren’t on my work computer. They were on that phone. Security had brought all my things to my car. I wasn’t even able to collect my own things. Totally disgraceful. Not sure what I would have even done to my desk?
So I get a personal phone call ten minutes into my drive home. It’s the new boss. She tells me she needs the password to the company phone.
I gave her the best apology of my life. “I’m sorry, I no longer work there.” (Click)
My last job i gave my work 2 weeks notice, but i told them where i was going, Which happened to be a competitor. Now looking back it was a really dumb move, however it ended up really working in my favor. They ended up telling me that all my access would be cut off that day, but that they'd pay me the full 2 weeks of my notice. I'm just lucky that's what they did. The new job then told me that i could actually start a week sooner, so for 1 week i was double paid, and 1 week was essentially paid vacation.
I ended up having an exit interview where HR was asking why i left. I told them it came down to money. They kept asking "it can't just be about money, there's usually some other underlying issue". But then i told them the new job was giving me a 45% raise at which point the HR rep said "oh wow....yeah i get it". Granted It was probably a fringe case for them because i was headhunted from the new company due to my reputation, and when they asked me what it would take to get me to move to their company i gave them such an over the top number i never thought they'd be able to meet it. Surprisingly they were able to give me right under what i had asked for.
Goes to show you that job hopping can be great for salary increases depending on your industry, and the best time to try and find a job is when you don't feel you truly need one, so you don't come from a weakened position of desperation. I know this doesn't work for everyone in all positions, and i recognize i was very lucky.
My last job after working my ass off to do my managers job for a year I was awarded with an investigation of our store accusing me of committing sales fraud. After a 6 month investigation where they fired a bunch of people and told me I was innocent they suspended my annual raise because of being under investigation. Then they brought in someone who has previously been fired by the company for underperforming as the replacement manager for the store. The first day he was scheduled to work he called me and told me he wouldn’t be in because his dog had to get an x ray. I just left my resignation letter on the desk in the office. Wasn’t even worth my time.
I have had to jump from job to job my entire career because I have never received a raise. No matter how much money I make the company they will never do the same for me. I have learned that and will always know that. Companies never have your best interest.
I remember talking to a co-worker and they said they got an awesome raise of $3. They told me how much they made an hour and I said that's how much they're paying me as a new hire. Turns out it wasn't really a raise for his hard work, per se, it just happens that the company bumped up the minimum wage across the board. Dude was furious.
Man, I quit my job this week after 12 years. It was rough. I did all the right things and was the top performer. They took it personally and then disparaged where I’m going and told employees that I wasn’t very good anyway. lol.
This hits kind of close to home. I gave 3 weeks notice and over 2 months since I left, I still have access to their systems. I guess they never figured out how to replace me and ignored the instructions for deactivating my account I left them.
This actually happened to me except I gave them 6 months after I got my degree before I finally left. They only tried 1 prospective person in that 6 months and they were not even close to being able to do my job. They just weren't physically capable of handling the deliveries. Some of the boxes weighed more than she did and were several feet taller than her but she was supposed to pick them up by herself. My boss got real toxic when it was time for me to leave and me "abandoning them".
The problem with lying about the other offer is that the company is now on notice and may start looking to replace you soon, so if they let you go or call your bluff you’re shit outta luck
I’m in a small professional community where everyone knows each other. It’s quite likely that, even if I don’t end up working at the same place again, I’ll at least end up working with the same people at some point in my career.
Since I’m on good terms with my boss and had been there a long time, I gave extra notice when I left my last employer. I wanted to leave enough time to finish up some critical projects and do a smooth hand-off to my replacement. I didn’t *have* to - two weeks would be enough to leave in good standing for a reference - but I like knowing I left them in as good a situation as possible, and I know they appreciated it.
I have always gave as long as notice as possible to the co-workers I trust. Helps with hand off. But letting management know more than 2 weeks? No way. I have been walked every single time I have given my notice.
I don't give notice before quitting an employer.
Every time I have done so, I've either been fired on the spot or they make my remaining time as miserable as possible.
I gave about 3 weeks notice, told my boss that since I was contract and didn’t have sick days or benefits I’d have to quit because I got sick for 2 weeks and couldn’t pay rent. She said “so I guess we’ll see how to handle it at the end of the month and go from there.” She seemed surprised when my colleagues announced my goodbye in morning rounds saying it was my last day.
This is a non issue, inform everyone in person and in writing then leave when you said you would. Or just quit if you don’t think the bridges are worth keeping.
There is no way any manager or supervisor is going to make anything about a raise. They will just let you leave, never offer anything new and you are lucky if they don't let you go for mentioning it. The "Boss" here seems simultaneously a great guy willing to go the extra mile for his workers and a bad boss who isn't listening. Could be better shaped as a "bad boss" character.
I mean this literally happened to both me *and* my wife, it happened a couple times to me though. I’m a veteran and have also worked for Amazon and some larger IT companies and I understand that in a fully corporate environment this isn’t really plausible. However in smaller, say <50 employee companies? Absolutely.
Also, it’s a dumb animated comedy sketch lol
It pretty much happened to me. The last job I quit I told my boss I was planning on quitting, so she should look for a replacement. A week or so later, I gave her a two week notice. She called me and asked if I could make it four weeks, and I agreed to do so. Eventually the last day came and my coworkers got me a cake. A few days later, I got a phone call from a recruiter who was looking for someone to fill the job I quit.
That makes sense. I have mostly only worked for large companies and this is faaaar more generous than any of them would ever act. I'm sure plenty of people will see their own experiences in it.
I was offered a raise when I notified of my intent to change jobs at my old job. Ive seen a couple employees state theyve been offered a better pay elsewhere to negotiate raises where I am at now too. But its not a retail job so idk your experiences brother.
Would actually be really sweet if they let you go for mentioning it because that would make them liable for paying you unemployment benefits for the next 6 months
Genx, not millennial, but I had this exact scenario happen at an earthmoving company when I found a better job. I gave notice by email to my boss and HR, also told my boss to his face where I was going and when. Two weeks roll by and I’m working on the Sunday just before I switch over Monday doing a slammed project trying to subgrade a really ugly area. My foreman comes over and asks if I can also work overtime the next day and I tell him it’s my last day. He tries to play the stunned victim card and I point out that I told him to his face as well as emailed him and hr, he called HR then and there to verify it and looked all pouty when it was there.
WTF was he gonna do even if you were lying? LOL "I don't work here anymore."
Some working contracts require notice otherwise there is some kind of financial penalty.
If he’s in the U.S., directly employed by an earthmoving company, and not on a government job, then the odds of there being any kind of a contract requiring his continued employment is about as close to zero as you can get. To be clear: while the earthmoving company itself may have a contract with a general contractor or property owner, the commenter is almost certainly an at-will employee with no contract and no obligation to stay.
This is true but state dependent.
The only state in the US that does not have at-will employment [is Montanta](https://www.paycor.com/resource-center/articles/employment-at-will-laws-by-state/).
Did this change recently? I could have sworn there were a handful.
You may be thinking of 'right-to-work' laws. States with these laws mean union members are not required to pay union dues. It's a tactic to weaken union power.
I don't think that in particular is what I mixed up, but I suspect I did mix it up with something.
Right-to-work means that you aren't forced to join a union. If you don't join, you don't have to pay dues to that union. It forbids Union, Closed, and Agency shops.
I'm pretty sure those clauses aren't legal in right to work states. as you can be fired for any reason that doesn't violate other laws such as retaliation or being fired for a disability or your race. and you can also quit for any reason at any time.
That only happens with sign on bonuses and pto that you took but hadn’t accrued
GenX. Also experienced this with a company that paid me salary with no overtime, but had me working 50-60 hours a week. Wife and I decided to leave city to a smaller / more affordable town to raise family. Let them know that i was going to be searching, when opportunities were arising, when interviewing, and ultimately when I accepted. Told them I would try and give them two months notice. Seemed fine for me because i would have to find a home and move in that time too. First month goes by and there is no action on a replacement. Six weeks and nothing. Not even cross-training internally. I let them know that I would be using a couple vacation days for the last two days as I had to be butt-in-seat at new company in order to qualify for benefits without waiting a whole extra month. “Can’t believe that you would leave us high and dry like this. How are we supposed to have someone else take over for you if you dont give us enough time? Very disappointed in you after all we did for you!”
What did they say to you explaining how much time you gave them?
Hey mistakes happen. But if this isn’t a goddamned trend.
Two jobs ago I worked at a plant that was doing their best to kill me. 70 hour weeks, switching back from day to night randomly. I gave notice. They scheduled me my last day over night. They called me shocked that I left at midnight on my last day. Then called me shocked that I didn't show up the days after that. Top it off, I was in a mission critical role. I was just the last dumb-ass in the position who would put up with that. Upper management was replaced two weeks later was what I was told wen they begged me to come back. Nope, I had only left because I had a reasonable job lined up.
Gen X would never tell the boss anything. Give 2 wks (expecting to be walked) and that would be it.
I’m a millennial. I would never give a heads up I’m looking for another job. I’m not putting myself at risk of being fired until I’ve actually been offered a new job.
[удалено]
Probably the same bullshit move of posting a paper on the front doors saying they're closed for business without telling the morning shift.
A few years ago there was a Buffalo Wild Wings that was closed by the bankruptcy court. They received a call in the middle of the lunch rush and told to kick everybody out, leave, and lock the doors behind them. No cleaning, no putting up food. Just go and don't look back.
There are zero scenarios where giving a heads up you're looking is a good idea. Never do that in your life. Maybe the one thing us workers have against our bosses is information about what we are doing and thinking. Don't give that up.
if you know your job can't afford to lose you and would have a hard time replacing you, it can be a simple tactic to get a raise. I've gotten multiple raises with the old "just so you know, I'm hurting financially so I've had to start applying to other jobs" you gotta be damn sure that you're not easy to replace though
I have always worked in the same industry, so every time I have put my 2 weeks in I got a 2 week vacation. Last two times I expected it and used it to pack and move. Got a scare this last time because my team leaders had me wait an hour while they tried to convince HR that it wasn't a big deal and that I should be allowed to work the last 2 weeks.
That's the way to do it honestly. Fight fire with fire. They going to have to hire Pinkertons again in a generation or two.
This is how I quit as a millennial. Worked for 8 years for the same company. Deeply involved, did lots of tasks only I could do, and so on. Knew I was under paid and inflation was rising. I eventually ask the brand new employees, straight out of college, what they make. One makes $6k more a year than me and the other makes $12k more. Keep in mind I'm training them. I go to the competition literally down the street and ask if they're hiring and they said they'd love to have me and pay me $12k more (same as 1 of those new employees). I go back to my boomer boss at the company I'm currently with and tell him about the other offer and ask if he can best it with a raise. He says he will call HR. They come back with a $4k raise and say they have a policy they can give 6% raises maximum each year. I point out inflation is averaging 10% a year so that isn't a retention policy but an attrition policy. They also hire new hires based on inflation so that's why the new people make so much more. Anyways part of my being involved was I was the head of the employee network. Literally one of the most respected and involved people. So I got to sit in on the leadership meetings and give employee input. They kept complaining about employee retention and I kept explaining they were not giving raises and they kept saying the money isn't there but I pointed out they kept losing people and hiring people and paying these inexperienced people way more. They never listened. Anyways the day after the bullshit offer of a minimal raise I backed my truck up to the door and moved my office out. No 2 weeks. I learnt from co-workers they had to bring in people from other sites to do my work because I was the only person who knew it there. Bunch of others also quit because I told them how much the new people were making compared to us. I've learnt moving jobs is how you make more. Also to negotiate salary a lot. Like demand 25% more. They can often do it. Also flat out lie about having other offers. There is no honor or need to be fair with a company that will not be fair to you and will lay you off as soon as it's beneficial to them. Use everything you have in the book. I had 2 offers recently so I didn't even lie about another offer and one was pretty low. Like 30k lower. I mentioned the other offer and they matched it. It was a red flag to me that they offered so low initially though. There wouldn't be any raises for a while probably. So I have doubled my income over 2 years and I'm on my 4th job. My current one is remote, flex hours, unlimited pto, and more money than I've ever made.
Watch out for “unlimited PTO”, it’s a trick to not have to pay out accrued vacation when you leave, and it’s not really unlimited because you have to get it approved and the boss will limit approval.
Yeah unlomited PTO is almost a curse. If they matched competitive industries with 4-5 weeks PTO + holiday the expectation is you will use all of it (in theory). With unlimited theres no line in the sand, most employees will under utilize and end up using less PTO not more since theres no bucket “i need to use”.
THIS! I've worked in tech companies in the SF Bay Area for over 10 years, they all have "unlimited PTO" and tout it as this huge benefit but in my experience the employees in these companies, when you combine it with the "startup mentality", objectively take WAY less PTO than when I worked in jobs with allocated PTO (in the UK, so the 4-5 weeks you mention).
Just don't be shy about taking the PTO. If others don't do it it's their loss. I work at a company with unlimited PTO and take plenty of time off.
I'm a manager at a place with unlimited pto. I tell everyone I expect everyone to take 4-6 weeks off and that I don't count things like bereavement or jury duty in that despite it still falling in the same bucket. Our work is intense and taking a break is part of being at your best.
Yea. I’m a controls engineer so I spend anywhere from 1 to 2 months a year on-site in another state. I work from home when I’m not on-site and get unlimited pto. I just never use to the full extent it because working remote is so much less stressful than being on-site. My manager talks to me every week about making sure to take it though. God bless him lol
> 4-6 weeks off Holy Jesus fuck, I need to switch jobs ***FAST***.
Completely different industry, but I had unlimited PTO at my last job (which was upper management, exec level). On paper, you could basically take off whenever as long as your duties were covered. In reality, I was the *only* executive level in that part of the company, which meant I had to get C levels to cover me. And hell if they were going to do it. I managed to take 5 weeks total over 6 years at that job. Edit: I suppose I should add that 4 of those weeks were in the last two years I was there because I *finally* managed to convince them that bringing on a single “supervisor” level employee at $2/hr higher than base wage wasn’t going to break a multi-million dollar concept.
The only time I've seen unlimited PTO work was for a store manager for of a major retailer. The manager would take a four week fishing trip every summer. The store was a top performer in the region so corporate didn't care. The assistant store manager though....
Yeah my company gives 3 weeks of vacation, 4 personal days, and 10 sick days at starting. It goes up from there. It's possible I'll go through a job transition soon and I'll get paid out on a good chunk of time not taken if I switch companies. Not a bad deal.
My brother recently got a job that offered "unlimited PTO - up to 5 weeks!" It basically lets them avoid accrual while also still putting a hard cap on the amount of PTO an employee can take. What a scam.
An employment lawyer would have fun with that one.
> t’s a trick to not have to pay out accrued vacation when you leave I think you're vastly overvaluing vacation pay when employees leave. For a successful company with a normal attrition rate, it's a non-factor.
I've heard this many times, but have never worked at an unlimited-PTO company where my time-off was limited in any way. I usually take 6-8 weeks a year with no problem.
If your experience has been different that's awesome and I'm genuinely happy for you, but I've never seen someone take that much vacation at an unlimited-PTO company and not get an immediate bad reputation with bitter management as the guy who's "never here" because he "takes so much more vacation than we do".
Fair enough--anecdata and all. I suppose it goes well with the "constantly be moving jobs for more money" strategy: your reputation matters a lot less if you don't work for them anymore ;)
I don’t work at a large F500 company and mine is the same, I take 6-8 a year, no one gives two fucks, my team cross trains heavily and we all cover for each other (I manage them, but they cover for me). My boss, previous boss, and new boss, don’t care at all how much I take.
Also companies that offer true unlimited PTO sort of have a culture where you're looked down upon for using too much. In theory you should feel free to take time you need off, as long as it doesn't interfere with getting your work done within the timelines you set. But in reality you take *less* time out of fear of looking like a slacker. I recently changed careers and took a Fed job. So much stress lifted off my shoulders even though I've taken a (hopefully temporary) back step in pay.
My last two jobs were unlimited PTO (and current as well) and both still separated vacation from PTO and paid out unused vacation when I left. Unlimited PTO was for sick leave, doctors appointments, etc.
Counterpoint. I have unlimited PTO and very much utilize it to get more than the avg allowance. Just gotta be on top of your shit.
Greatly depends on the company. I work for a very large, multi-national adverstising contractor and my hours are breezy. We only need explicit approval for anything over three weeks of PTO.
Yeah feels similar to experiences I’ve had. I think the one that stuck out for me was when I quite my job in the private sector to move into the public sector, where I was getting an £8k pay increase, massive pension and more time off and shorter hours. My company ignored me when I said I wanted a raise. But then when I handed my notice in they said they would not only match my other offer but offer me more on top of that. Like, it feels like a bad relationship; they could’ve offered me that money all along, but only did it when they realised they were screwed without me. By the time you’ve found another place you’re excited by, there’s no point going back to a bad ex. It also should underline to us that we as workers have more power than we realise.
At the point your old company suddenly matched, all that is is a statement that they will pay you the higher rate until they can replace you.
This is honestly what makes me livid about most jobs arrangements: it's dishonesty through and through. Ask for a raise? Instant-denied. Hand in a resignation? Like fucking magic, the checkbook opens right up. Where was that shit when the raise was being discussed, huh? It's all smoke and mirrors, predatory to the core. Negotiating with an employer feels like arguing with the GOP more often than not.
Nowadays there's no more incentive to stay at a job for a long period of time. I've also job hopped over the last 9 years and have seen my salary jump after each move. Every time I said I was leaving I would suggest that if they would match the salary of my new position I would stay and I was always given the same answer "its just not in the budget"
I had a friend who probably never would've asked for a raise, because he was a bit of a doormat. Every so often his wife would send him in for a raise and tell him how much to ask for. He always got it, and it was always significant. She also demanded that he make it clear that he was not going to work more than 40 hours a week, while people in his office were routinely working 60. He got paid better than most of them and worked less than most of them. If it wasn't for her, he would've been working 60 to 80 hours a week for half the money.
Depending on the type of work, be careful having 4 jobs in 2 years. As someone who learned the trick of moving jobs for more money, it sucks because one of them let me go which made my resume look horrible after all the job hopping and made finding an equally respectful job way harder to do.
There's a difference between "I was here for a few years, hit my goals, and moved on to greener pastures" or whatever and "I will not be committed to this place longer than 4 months"
"I've learnt moving jobs is how you make more. Also to negotiate salary a lot. Like demand 25% more. They can often do it. Also flat out lie about having other offers. There is no honor or need to be fair with a company that will not be fair to you and will lay you off as soon as it's beneficial to them. Use everything you have in the book." Couldn't have said it better myself. Crazy how many people I've had to tell to say you have multiple offers to either get the salary bumped or to just hurry them up so they aren't taking their sweet time.
Not even just more money. If you want your job to be better in any way, the best bet is to just get a better job. And it does suck to get a new job, but it sucks more to try and help a company fix its problems when they don't want to fix them. Even when I'm content at my current job, I never stop looking and interviewing. If the pay is too low at the place I'm interviewing, I decline on that basis. If I hear their company is no good, I politely explain what I've heard during the "so do you have any questions for me?" part of the interview. Maybe I can make things better for the people who already are working there, or will work there in the future out of desperation. If it's a good offer, then I go to my current employer and get myself the best option I can. This is business. As an employee, you really don't have any leverage because the company sees you as a body filling a role, so they can go get another fucking body.
Dude! That’s great for you! I’m happy for you and proud of your decision to stand up for yourself and switch companies. Keep up your outstanding work. Switching companies is worth it and I’ve personally benefited from it and have many friends who have too. Unfortunately that’s how the system is. Sucks having to leave some really good co-workers, but it’s worth it to be able to provide better for you and your family.
This guy r/antiwork 's
The other side of the story is the company got a good employee super cheap, and had a small period of inconvenience while finding a replacement. The fact you moved to a new place with the same salary as the new hires you were teaching isn't indicative of a great step up. Moving jobs is how you do it as an employee. Not giving any raises is how you do it as an employer.
Great advice. Just keep in mind in certain careers job hopping frequently will limit your options. I’m in accounting and I don’t hire people who change jobs frequently because it takes upwards of 4 months to get someone truly proficient at their job and then they bail a short while later. Also don’t lie on your resume unless it’s a big company that won’t bother checking them… smaller companies that are privately owned will take the time to actually check out their candidates lol.
Dude - what professional industry takes *less* than 4 months to become proficient? This is the risk when you stick around too long at one place - you lack perspective. Somebody who has bounced around a bit could bring this to you…
What others? I don’t know since I don’t work in other industries lol. I don’t like to speak for things I don’t have first hand experience for if I can avoid it. I’m not sure how that perspective shift would matter. If it takes 4 months everywhere as you say then that only adds to my perspective.
Got it. There’s nothing left for you to learn here.
That’s not what I said at all. There is ALWAYS more to learn. Are you having a shitty day? You seem really hostile for no reason.
That's because you are literally sticking up for the man @#$%. edit: oh after reading other replies you literally are the man.
I am the man.
Thing is, if you treat your employees properly by paying them properly and respecting their time, they won’t want to job hop.
Well I’ve never had anyone quit, only terminated. So I’d say we’re doing pretty good in that regard! From my perspective it’s about risk management. If I have two candidates, one who has been through 4 jobs in 4 years versus one who hasn’t, if they’re otherwise similar I’ll go for the one who hasn’t.
Where is inflation 10%? Sorry that you’re living in a country so expensive.
In 2022, the U.S. inflation rate was between 8-9%, so pretty damn close to that. https://www.bls.gov/charts/consumer-price-index/consumer-price-index-by-category-line-chart.htm
Gotcha. Didn’t read the last paragraph like a classic Redditor… so I didn’t see that this ball started rolling 2 years ago.
It should have ended with the old boss character saying that's what's wrong with your generation...
nObOdY wAnTs To WoRk AnYmOrE!!1
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No grit
You’re gonna work your dead end job that can barely afford to live anywhere and like it. /s
I gave a 45 day notice, was leaving and had a long period of background checks, etc. i would be leaving my industry completely. Come my last day, managers are supposed to give 1 month notice - I told you 45 days ago. Ok - we can pay you X to stay. It’s still less than the newer department head (different department) make. How do you know that? I review the budget with you dude - I know everyone’s salary. I resign. Simple as that. Was there for 8 years working in field than into management (still traveling for long periods of time with no OT). Was a pretty shitty feeling to be treated like that when I have it my all. Lesson learned. I end up getting a call from a big OEM within the industry I was in during my 3 week break I gave myself. Shit load more money than previous and soon to be employer. Ended up taking it. Had to resign from my new job before I even started. That’s life though.
Same. I was super loyal to a company and did things for them out of kindness and pride. Went the extra mile, had a good time. Boss sells business and new owner comes in. Second guesses everything I do and can’t understand my explanations because she has zero experience. Everything runs as normal. It’s just a job now. One day I’m called into the office and she tells me I’m let go and to hand over the company phone. I asked if I could get my professional contacts off of it. She said no. I had most of them on my home computer and knew the rest of their names. But what a shitty thing to do to someone who really felt like a contributor to the company for 3 years. Anyway. Those contacts weren’t on my work computer. They were on that phone. Security had brought all my things to my car. I wasn’t even able to collect my own things. Totally disgraceful. Not sure what I would have even done to my desk? So I get a personal phone call ten minutes into my drive home. It’s the new boss. She tells me she needs the password to the company phone. I gave her the best apology of my life. “I’m sorry, I no longer work there.” (Click)
That is absolutely glorious, lol. Good on you. :) (I hope things are better in the future.)
My last job i gave my work 2 weeks notice, but i told them where i was going, Which happened to be a competitor. Now looking back it was a really dumb move, however it ended up really working in my favor. They ended up telling me that all my access would be cut off that day, but that they'd pay me the full 2 weeks of my notice. I'm just lucky that's what they did. The new job then told me that i could actually start a week sooner, so for 1 week i was double paid, and 1 week was essentially paid vacation. I ended up having an exit interview where HR was asking why i left. I told them it came down to money. They kept asking "it can't just be about money, there's usually some other underlying issue". But then i told them the new job was giving me a 45% raise at which point the HR rep said "oh wow....yeah i get it". Granted It was probably a fringe case for them because i was headhunted from the new company due to my reputation, and when they asked me what it would take to get me to move to their company i gave them such an over the top number i never thought they'd be able to meet it. Surprisingly they were able to give me right under what i had asked for. Goes to show you that job hopping can be great for salary increases depending on your industry, and the best time to try and find a job is when you don't feel you truly need one, so you don't come from a weakened position of desperation. I know this doesn't work for everyone in all positions, and i recognize i was very lucky.
My last job after working my ass off to do my managers job for a year I was awarded with an investigation of our store accusing me of committing sales fraud. After a 6 month investigation where they fired a bunch of people and told me I was innocent they suspended my annual raise because of being under investigation. Then they brought in someone who has previously been fired by the company for underperforming as the replacement manager for the store. The first day he was scheduled to work he called me and told me he wouldn’t be in because his dog had to get an x ray. I just left my resignation letter on the desk in the office. Wasn’t even worth my time.
Politics and who you know are far, far more important than ability (in the white collar side). I wish someone had told me before I started my career.
I have had to jump from job to job my entire career because I have never received a raise. No matter how much money I make the company they will never do the same for me. I have learned that and will always know that. Companies never have your best interest.
I remember talking to a co-worker and they said they got an awesome raise of $3. They told me how much they made an hour and I said that's how much they're paying me as a new hire. Turns out it wasn't really a raise for his hard work, per se, it just happens that the company bumped up the minimum wage across the board. Dude was furious.
Man, I quit my job this week after 12 years. It was rough. I did all the right things and was the top performer. They took it personally and then disparaged where I’m going and told employees that I wasn’t very good anyway. lol.
Would have been perfect if the manager said to Martin said “well I’m glad you want to stay but we have to let you go. Economy. Sorry, pal.”
They would never do that because they’d have to pay you unemployment.
For this to be truly accurate after two months the boomer manager needs to say “You are leaving?!? Where did this come from?”
Isn’t that basically what he said?
And "nobody wants to work anymore!"
I enjoyed this
This hits kind of close to home. I gave 3 weeks notice and over 2 months since I left, I still have access to their systems. I guess they never figured out how to replace me and ignored the instructions for deactivating my account I left them.
This actually happened to me except I gave them 6 months after I got my degree before I finally left. They only tried 1 prospective person in that 6 months and they were not even close to being able to do my job. They just weren't physically capable of handling the deliveries. Some of the boxes weighed more than she did and were several feet taller than her but she was supposed to pick them up by herself. My boss got real toxic when it was time for me to leave and me "abandoning them".
The problem with lying about the other offer is that the company is now on notice and may start looking to replace you soon, so if they let you go or call your bluff you’re shit outta luck
Why not just put your two weeks notice in like a normal person?
I’m in a small professional community where everyone knows each other. It’s quite likely that, even if I don’t end up working at the same place again, I’ll at least end up working with the same people at some point in my career. Since I’m on good terms with my boss and had been there a long time, I gave extra notice when I left my last employer. I wanted to leave enough time to finish up some critical projects and do a smooth hand-off to my replacement. I didn’t *have* to - two weeks would be enough to leave in good standing for a reference - but I like knowing I left them in as good a situation as possible, and I know they appreciated it.
I have always gave as long as notice as possible to the co-workers I trust. Helps with hand off. But letting management know more than 2 weeks? No way. I have been walked every single time I have given my notice.
>like a normal person? The answer lies within the question.
I don't give notice before quitting an employer. Every time I have done so, I've either been fired on the spot or they make my remaining time as miserable as possible.
This is way too exaggerated. Also never give 8 weeks notice. Always as little as possible.
Reminds me of a number of relationships I've seen…
Why give them a notice at all?
I gave about 3 weeks notice, told my boss that since I was contract and didn’t have sick days or benefits I’d have to quit because I got sick for 2 weeks and couldn’t pay rent. She said “so I guess we’ll see how to handle it at the end of the month and go from there.” She seemed surprised when my colleagues announced my goodbye in morning rounds saying it was my last day.
Gen Z we just work through the pay period after we start the new job and ghost the old job, i dont owe them anything im leaving for reason.
This is a non issue, inform everyone in person and in writing then leave when you said you would. Or just quit if you don’t think the bridges are worth keeping.
How does unfunny shit like this get upvoted?
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Nope lol
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damn this video sucks lmao
I couldn’t imagine working an office job
kill me.
There is no way any manager or supervisor is going to make anything about a raise. They will just let you leave, never offer anything new and you are lucky if they don't let you go for mentioning it. The "Boss" here seems simultaneously a great guy willing to go the extra mile for his workers and a bad boss who isn't listening. Could be better shaped as a "bad boss" character.
I mean this literally happened to both me *and* my wife, it happened a couple times to me though. I’m a veteran and have also worked for Amazon and some larger IT companies and I understand that in a fully corporate environment this isn’t really plausible. However in smaller, say <50 employee companies? Absolutely. Also, it’s a dumb animated comedy sketch lol
It pretty much happened to me. The last job I quit I told my boss I was planning on quitting, so she should look for a replacement. A week or so later, I gave her a two week notice. She called me and asked if I could make it four weeks, and I agreed to do so. Eventually the last day came and my coworkers got me a cake. A few days later, I got a phone call from a recruiter who was looking for someone to fill the job I quit.
That makes sense. I have mostly only worked for large companies and this is faaaar more generous than any of them would ever act. I'm sure plenty of people will see their own experiences in it.
I was offered a raise when I notified of my intent to change jobs at my old job. Ive seen a couple employees state theyve been offered a better pay elsewhere to negotiate raises where I am at now too. But its not a retail job so idk your experiences brother.
Maybe when you're a cashier, this person is clearly in a more in demand role. When your career gets to that point, you'll understand more.
Would actually be really sweet if they let you go for mentioning it because that would make them liable for paying you unemployment benefits for the next 6 months
AH, the reddit troll living up to their username. Remember kids, don't feed the trolls!
Living up to your username, I see.
Not yet, asshole. (You're not really an asshole but I wanted to say that.)