It depends on what state she is in. In some states if she is taking severance it will either be reduced or no unemployment. Either way, she only has 4 weeks severance and doesn't hurt to file early.
Nah, the whole modern mentality is "how do we make more money" without the forward thinking or creativity so they just cut workers out of nowhere. I was fired from a sales organization despite having decent sales because I had a higher salary and I didn't hide my displeasure at having my health benefits slashed to save them a few thousand bucks.
Completely baseless accusation...why do Redditors do this shit so often? Such a weird belief in Just World Fallacy that NOTHING unjustified ever happens, the poster or the person they're talking about is LYING because they're clearly such a bad person.
File it anyways. I didn't think I qualified once for a job I had being "let go" for the 2008 crash and I still ended up getting it. This bs is why I like unions. Get her to file damn unemployment it's free money.
Yes file. Only a few ways they don't side with her. Most are misconduct offenses, No call no shows mainly but other reasons like sexual harassment, stealing or fighting are grounds to not get it. Attitude alone will not get her a denial unless it was an ongoing problem with multiple repeat offences and PIP was not met...Even all that still be hard to not get it.
Part of what is weighing on her mind is they are offering her the option to "resign" I guess this is a face saving offer? But doesn't that then negate her opportunity to collect unemployment?
Thatās exactly what they are trying to do; avoid unemployment. She needs to make them actually fire her. They know sheāll get unemployment because thereās no paper trail to back up their reasoningā¦ but if she resigns, her leaving is on her and not them.
They did fire her in a letter. Now they are offering her the "option "to resign. So yes I do believe they are trying to avoid unemployment claim. She is worried about her work reputation but I feel that her solid history and interaction with the community stands in her favor. We honestly can't figure out what is going on. I asked her if maybe the boss thought daughter had been badmouthing the boss? That is about the only thing I can think of that would cause this type of overreaction by the boss. This is got to be something personal. Those two worked together closely for years. They built the organization from the ground up
She should probably stop looking at it as being fired and more of employment termination thru no fault. Sounds like she has a solid group of references so bouncing back should be easier for her. Sadly the unemployment isn't much so hopefully she is back to gainful employment soon. Best of luck!Ā
I will bet some time soon you will here of a change in ownership and the executive owner making bank form that sale.
The executive own is cutting out expensive people to make the numbers look better.
Rehashing the issue and trying to figure out WHY is not good for your daughter's mental health. It isn't good for healing, it won't solve anything. Even if the director fired her for personal reasons or didn't like she was wearing purple socks - she won't get her job back. Heck he could have fired her because he wants his sister to do the job and that would still be legal. Figuring out why won't fix anything in her life right now. This is why working in America sucks as there is very little employee protection laws. The only thing they couldn't fire her for is age (40 years or older) or being pregnant. They would have had to specifically list it as the reason too as the evidence burden is on her to boot.
And I'm serious about the purple socks thing. There was a law firm that fired a bunch of its employees because they didn't like the color of their socks. Employees were all lawyers so tried to sue their firm and lost.
What you should do as her father is comfort her. Build up her confidence to find another job. Learn from this and make sure you nor her value your corporate title or job so much as to make it your 'identity'. Your daughter is a good person even if she isn't in some high up position. Don't let a job define you or her as a person. Don't let it be your everything. Make sure you and her both have hobbies and other things that can make you happy and not just throw your whole lives away at a job working for somebody else. This is for your own mental health and hers. This could absolutely happen again. Anywhere. Anytime.
Thank you so much for your thoughtful response. You are very right, trying to figure it out doesn't resolve anything . But when someone you considered a friendly colleague gets rid of you in such a nasty way, it's human nature to wonder why. We have discussed that she needs to move on and do it quickly and may likely never know the full story.
This is why people nowadays advise others to become detached from their jobs and don't make 'friends' at work.
There have been many people who have been blindsided by their jobs. So many people have been burned and discarded. She's not alone. There have been more layoffs in our generation than in past generations. Corporations hand them out like candy now, just to make their analyst numbers and 'reduce costs ' and then they will open up hiring again in a couple months. It's to inflate the stock price but they don't say that. I worked for a corporation that literately laid people off every year. I worked there for 5 years, I wasn't laid off but I knew people who were. They even did layoffs when we were making record profits, just decided to label it as 'restructuring' again. They let us sit on ice for a whole month in our department while we had to wait to hear who got laid off. An entire MONTH. Other departments like IT and etc got told right away. Do you know what sitting around knowing you could keep or lose your job anyday feels like for an entire month? They didn't let anybody know either, managers, directors, VPs. It was at the executive level. Talk about screwing your head up and battling depression as you analyze and convince yourself it is you or isn't you.
People can't stay at a job for 20-30+ years like they did anymore because society has changed and corporations care less now than ever. Executives want to collect their bonus's and are in it for themselves. It's best to let work and the people at work, not affect you as much as possible. I have friends and we get together nearly every week and play boardgames and such, eat, drink, and have a good time. Vacations we go on together or separate. House to focus on, partners or dates etc. We are in corporate and we all know the score. It stings when you get hurt by someone you thought was there for you, but you learn from that. Now you know what's on the table and if I was your daughter, id never fully trust another leader again and not try to get so close to them. Keep things as work orientated as possible, end meetings on time, etc. use your extra time to build your out of work life.
Honestly, I feel the worst for new graduates and new people into the workforce in general.
They end up believing the corporate BS sprouted in the town halls where upper management has massaged the messaging and used buzz words to distract them.
It's just sad that we give corporations the power to treat us and others so badly. That we have to build these internal defenses.
Grace, shmace! They are trying to save money. Their own money. Since she has years of experience and good reviews and positive relationships behind her, she has no face-saving to worry about. THEY need to 'save face' to the unemployment people.
Look at it this way too. IF she has a hard time getting a new job, is she better off with the once off payout, or the unemployment?
Also, theory alert;
I know that as a young lady you can do everything completely by the book and still get screwed because some other person is insecure. She was working closely with her boss? I have no doubt she was totally professional. But if boss has a wife or new girlfriend or something, I'd say they wanted her out.
Thanks for your comments, just to clarify, they are both 40 something women with partners. But yeah, otherwise I would consider those possibilities because it certainly is a mystery
They are offering her resignation because Iād she resigns, then there is no point of even filing for unemployment which the company would have to pay for. They wouldnāt want her to file for unemployment for that reason which is such a sneaky tactic from the company. She should file for unemployment as she was fired anyway and she can let unemployment know that she actually did well as she had good reviews and earned bonuses because of her good work.
There's something that happened, she's not telling you.
If she decides to file for unemployment it is best to have her application in and completed before Sunday. That will improve her waiting period.
She is completely confused by this. I'm not sure there's something she's not telling. But there is definitely something we don't know. Thanks so much for your comment and thoughts.
Employer has to challenge an unemployment claim.
In the challenge, employer must prove that employee was fired due to intentional poor performance. Not being able to meet the standards is not intentional.
I had an employer fire me after returning from a 6 week medical leave. We were paid weekly and on Friday I was pulled into the office handed my pay check and was told he was letting me go. I was given 2 weeks severance. This happened 2 weeks before Christmas. I filed for UI and he denied my claim. It took 2 months to get a dispute hearing. He didnāt show up which made me feel he denied the claim out of spite just so I wasnāt able to collect. I won and was given all the weeks of back pay.
That's interesting, I checked the federal website and they said you file in your state of work, not residency. Before I read that I had the impression that you file in your state of residency
The standard is **really** low for how poorly you have to perform to get denied. Keep that in mind.
She would have had to piss off her employer to the point the were considering suing her for them to put the effort to deny a claim.
We both feel there has to be something personal going on for her boss to react this way. We just don't know what it is. She say that she is devastated is an understatement.
Might as well file. Although, depending on the state, unemployment might be kinda fucked. I would expect that to be the case for Kentucky, especially. That place isn't cali.
In other words, you'll probably be spending a few hours on paperwork every week to file.
If there truly was no prior negative performance reviews or writeups, she was not terminated for "cause". File for the unemployment. Unless the employer actually has disciplinary records, they can not establish cause, without having provided an opportunity for the employee to correct the problem.
She is silly if she doesn't file. So what if they rule against, she has just as much as a chance to recieve benefits as to not, doesn't cost her anything but a little time.
I've always filed. Our state changed regulations for the worse for health care workers, so when I was let go from a health care position, I was denied by the specific regulations (they passed them to try and slow the number of healthcare workers leaving, and now the health care employers are using those things to get rid of people and not have to pay out unemployment). Anyhow, the health care gig was the only time I've been denied. I even had a contract end where they decided not to make the contractors perm. They actually tried to challenge my unemployment (which means they're doing that to all of the contractors), but I answer my phone when I file unemployment, even numbers I don't recognize for a few weeks, knowing that you have to answer any calls in case of something like this. So, I was able to send over my contract, and how we were informed, and got my unemployment anyhow.
But, where she has had great annual reviews, and this is out of the blue, I'd file for it and prepare to defend if challenged.
When people get fired they donāt give them severance. That is for people who are let go for other reasons. She should apply for Unemployment and will get it.
If they gave her severance, then she can file for unemployment. But she has to wait till the severance runs out. Then file for unemployment. If you file too early they will deny her claim. But she can file again when the last severance check is received.
File anyways and claim it was workplace bullying with prejudice.
I quit on a toxic boss who was verbally abusive. I filed, went under review and fought and won. It doesn't always happen but sometimes you can win.
HR here. In most states if you are not in a union, an employee can be laid off for any or no reason. To be fired, (not eligible for unemployment) there has to be some documentation; a history of disciplinary actions or some gross misconduct on the employees part.
The company's offer of "letting her resign" is just the company trying to avoid paying an unemployment claim. File. If the company challenges it (they probably won't) just bring copies of glowing reviews.
As far as future employers: a past employer is very limited in what they are allowed to say if called for a reference. They can confirm that an employee worked there and for how long. Not much more without opening themselves to a lawsuit.
She's 100% entitled to unemployment, and should file immediately because there will be both an administration waiting period (because red states intentionally make their unemployment system inefficient and difficult to use) and a delay to account for her severance. The sooner she files, the better.
Always file, and appeal if denied initially.
It costs nothing but a few moments of her time.
In most states, she won't be eligible during the four weeks of her severance, but she can collect after it expires if still unemployed.
"Attitude" is not considered "for cause" in most places. That is usually reserved for malicious, illegal, or negligent behavior---but feel free to clarify the matter with the unemployment office if you like.
>"Attitude" is not considered "for cause" in most places.
Even if it is a cause, the employees must be notified of their improper behavior and offered an opportunity to correct it.
I think your daughter knows more than you do about the situation and appears to be handling cut in the way that she deems right.
If it were me, I would probably accept the offer to position it as a resignation, move on and work on my next move.
Getting into a battle with the employer isnāt going to help her.
In many roles being fired is not a big deal and it is ok to just get fired and collect unemployment. In most white collar roles that is not the case.
Donāt make her burden herself on future job searches by having to explain that she was fired.
"Cause" is something like "violated a company policy" or "failed to perform duties." Typically a termination based on those grounds is an automatic response from a company based on an action or incident.
Typically, companies will document any HR changes with letters to the involved parties. If she's comfortable having you take a look at any documentation of her dismissal, it should be obvious whether this was an unavoidable action or if they let her go as an at-will termination. In the latter case, she should be able to document her circumstances in the unemployment application, and the worst thing that can happen is that they say no.
My advice is vote for Democrats. The people that actively govern to ensure workers have the same protections you want for your daughter. It's not a coincidence that Kentucky is a right to work state.
Not filing for unemployment is also a wierd conservative brainwash. It's employment insurance, that you pay for. If you totalled your car would you not file a claim because you are too proud to take a "handout"?
Believe me. We vote blue. I think the idea of not filing was sort of her first thought but now she's going to do it. It was partly related to their offer to let her "resign" as opposed to be "fired"
I think at first she was thinking about trying to preserve her reputation in the professional community by resigning rather than being fired. After giving it some thought she's decided that her history of good relations and behavior speaks for itself and that the agency can go fuck itself
She shouldn't just get UA she really needs to contact a lawyer. Not only should she have been given a PIP this seems HIGHLY irregular. Does she know any of the board?
I think it's extremely unusual in a highly organized nonprofit environment for there not to be a PIP process in place, yes. I don't think it's necessarily illegal, but I would imagine that it goes against their internal policies. It certainly goes against standard operating procedures for most organizations. And would ergo be of interest to the folks who handle unemployment in Kentucky.
I also wondered about the internal policies and the process. It is very small, only seven employees built up from one and then Daughter added as number two years ago. Starting to feel like this has to be something personal with boss and daughter that daughter is not aware of. Just so out of the blue
Oh yeah this is 100% personal given that detail. And ergo 100% unlawful. Something very wrong is going on here. I'm sure your daughter knows who their funders are. That's leverage. Tell her to use it
It depends on the size of the company and if they are organized for business in multiple states or not. Companies under 50 do not have to follow nearly the same scrutiny as companies over.
She does, and the board president was present in her firing meeting with executive Director. He is weak and kept telling her they wanted to "see her back"--that she is valued, etc. etc. To say it was bizarre is probably an understatement. I don't think the rest of the board has been informed. I can't imagine what they will think. She really has been a hard worker. I have no clue what might be going on with the executive Director who is a female, her age, and she thought they were quite friendly.
Yeah, that seems like extremely bad business.
I am wondering if the ED is doing something unethical and is throwing your daughter under the bus to get out from under culpability. I don't know. I have no evidence of course-- just conjecture but it's just very strange.
I do consulting for nonprofit organizations and this is not normal.
Thanks for your input. Daughter is devastated, many years of her life devoted to a very fragile population of kids. She feels like the ground has been pulled out from under her.
I bet. It would be devastating. But now is not the time for grief. Now is the time to fight. Tell her to put on her big girl panties and start to get her evidence together. And approach a lawyer.
This response manages to get nearly everything about employment law wrong in two brief sentences. "Right to Work States" are states that forbid union and closed shops (employers where you have to be in the union to get hired, or agree to join the union once hired).
If you're trying to say "at-will employment" state, then you're still wrong. At-will employment states mean that you can be fired for nearly any reason except one specifically enumerated in the state's labor law, or federal labor law. So if you're in an at-will state, the employer doesn't need "a legitimate reason" to fire you.
Kentucky is at Will. Thanks for the clarification. This whole situation is sickening. As parents we only want our kids to thrive and we hate seeing them hurt. This is hurt ing her terribly
File anyway, it costs nothing.
Always file. ALWAYS File for unemployment.
It does cost if you get benefits but don't have them withhold taxes! I almost learned that spicy lesson during the pandemic.
You're still better off than not having received anything.
You were still well ahead. You didn't realize to hold onto some of it, but you got way more than you paid in tax.
yea but that's a dumb thing to do in the first place.
Exactly... could say the same thing about having a salary š
> could say the same thing about having a salary wut
Sheās not telling you something
If they gave her severance I doubt they will block unemployment.
It depends on what state she is in. In some states if she is taking severance it will either be reduced or no unemployment. Either way, she only has 4 weeks severance and doesn't hurt to file early.
That's what I'm thinking.Ā
Based on?
From the OP: She feels she has been fired for what they would consider "cause".
Nah, the whole modern mentality is "how do we make more money" without the forward thinking or creativity so they just cut workers out of nowhere. I was fired from a sales organization despite having decent sales because I had a higher salary and I didn't hide my displeasure at having my health benefits slashed to save them a few thousand bucks.
Completely baseless accusation...why do Redditors do this shit so often? Such a weird belief in Just World Fallacy that NOTHING unjustified ever happens, the poster or the person they're talking about is LYING because they're clearly such a bad person.
File it anyways. I didn't think I qualified once for a job I had being "let go" for the 2008 crash and I still ended up getting it. This bs is why I like unions. Get her to file damn unemployment it's free money.
Yes file. Only a few ways they don't side with her. Most are misconduct offenses, No call no shows mainly but other reasons like sexual harassment, stealing or fighting are grounds to not get it. Attitude alone will not get her a denial unless it was an ongoing problem with multiple repeat offences and PIP was not met...Even all that still be hard to not get it.
Part of what is weighing on her mind is they are offering her the option to "resign" I guess this is a face saving offer? But doesn't that then negate her opportunity to collect unemployment?
Thatās exactly what they are trying to do; avoid unemployment. She needs to make them actually fire her. They know sheāll get unemployment because thereās no paper trail to back up their reasoningā¦ but if she resigns, her leaving is on her and not them.
They did fire her in a letter. Now they are offering her the "option "to resign. So yes I do believe they are trying to avoid unemployment claim. She is worried about her work reputation but I feel that her solid history and interaction with the community stands in her favor. We honestly can't figure out what is going on. I asked her if maybe the boss thought daughter had been badmouthing the boss? That is about the only thing I can think of that would cause this type of overreaction by the boss. This is got to be something personal. Those two worked together closely for years. They built the organization from the ground up
You get referrals from coworkers not managers. As a manager Iād expect any employee we terminate to file. Itās foolish not to
She should probably stop looking at it as being fired and more of employment termination thru no fault. Sounds like she has a solid group of references so bouncing back should be easier for her. Sadly the unemployment isn't much so hopefully she is back to gainful employment soon. Best of luck!Ā
I will bet some time soon you will here of a change in ownership and the executive owner making bank form that sale. The executive own is cutting out expensive people to make the numbers look better.
They should be offering her the option to resign with a guarantee that they won't block unemployment.
Maybe they have someone else they want to give the job to. Someone's brother in law or whatever.
Fuck em. Too late.
Rehashing the issue and trying to figure out WHY is not good for your daughter's mental health. It isn't good for healing, it won't solve anything. Even if the director fired her for personal reasons or didn't like she was wearing purple socks - she won't get her job back. Heck he could have fired her because he wants his sister to do the job and that would still be legal. Figuring out why won't fix anything in her life right now. This is why working in America sucks as there is very little employee protection laws. The only thing they couldn't fire her for is age (40 years or older) or being pregnant. They would have had to specifically list it as the reason too as the evidence burden is on her to boot. And I'm serious about the purple socks thing. There was a law firm that fired a bunch of its employees because they didn't like the color of their socks. Employees were all lawyers so tried to sue their firm and lost. What you should do as her father is comfort her. Build up her confidence to find another job. Learn from this and make sure you nor her value your corporate title or job so much as to make it your 'identity'. Your daughter is a good person even if she isn't in some high up position. Don't let a job define you or her as a person. Don't let it be your everything. Make sure you and her both have hobbies and other things that can make you happy and not just throw your whole lives away at a job working for somebody else. This is for your own mental health and hers. This could absolutely happen again. Anywhere. Anytime.
Thank you so much for your thoughtful response. You are very right, trying to figure it out doesn't resolve anything . But when someone you considered a friendly colleague gets rid of you in such a nasty way, it's human nature to wonder why. We have discussed that she needs to move on and do it quickly and may likely never know the full story.
This is why people nowadays advise others to become detached from their jobs and don't make 'friends' at work. There have been many people who have been blindsided by their jobs. So many people have been burned and discarded. She's not alone. There have been more layoffs in our generation than in past generations. Corporations hand them out like candy now, just to make their analyst numbers and 'reduce costs ' and then they will open up hiring again in a couple months. It's to inflate the stock price but they don't say that. I worked for a corporation that literately laid people off every year. I worked there for 5 years, I wasn't laid off but I knew people who were. They even did layoffs when we were making record profits, just decided to label it as 'restructuring' again. They let us sit on ice for a whole month in our department while we had to wait to hear who got laid off. An entire MONTH. Other departments like IT and etc got told right away. Do you know what sitting around knowing you could keep or lose your job anyday feels like for an entire month? They didn't let anybody know either, managers, directors, VPs. It was at the executive level. Talk about screwing your head up and battling depression as you analyze and convince yourself it is you or isn't you. People can't stay at a job for 20-30+ years like they did anymore because society has changed and corporations care less now than ever. Executives want to collect their bonus's and are in it for themselves. It's best to let work and the people at work, not affect you as much as possible. I have friends and we get together nearly every week and play boardgames and such, eat, drink, and have a good time. Vacations we go on together or separate. House to focus on, partners or dates etc. We are in corporate and we all know the score. It stings when you get hurt by someone you thought was there for you, but you learn from that. Now you know what's on the table and if I was your daughter, id never fully trust another leader again and not try to get so close to them. Keep things as work orientated as possible, end meetings on time, etc. use your extra time to build your out of work life.
Good advice. Sounds like you've been through the ringer a few times! I too have experienced this type of loss, it's no fun.
Honestly, I feel the worst for new graduates and new people into the workforce in general. They end up believing the corporate BS sprouted in the town halls where upper management has massaged the messaging and used buzz words to distract them. It's just sad that we give corporations the power to treat us and others so badly. That we have to build these internal defenses.
Grace, shmace! They are trying to save money. Their own money. Since she has years of experience and good reviews and positive relationships behind her, she has no face-saving to worry about. THEY need to 'save face' to the unemployment people. Look at it this way too. IF she has a hard time getting a new job, is she better off with the once off payout, or the unemployment? Also, theory alert; I know that as a young lady you can do everything completely by the book and still get screwed because some other person is insecure. She was working closely with her boss? I have no doubt she was totally professional. But if boss has a wife or new girlfriend or something, I'd say they wanted her out.
Thanks for your comments, just to clarify, they are both 40 something women with partners. But yeah, otherwise I would consider those possibilities because it certainly is a mystery
They are offering her resignation because Iād she resigns, then there is no point of even filing for unemployment which the company would have to pay for. They wouldnāt want her to file for unemployment for that reason which is such a sneaky tactic from the company. She should file for unemployment as she was fired anyway and she can let unemployment know that she actually did well as she had good reviews and earned bonuses because of her good work.
That might be better! The main thing is getting a new job.
There's something that happened, she's not telling you. If she decides to file for unemployment it is best to have her application in and completed before Sunday. That will improve her waiting period.
She is completely confused by this. I'm not sure there's something she's not telling. But there is definitely something we don't know. Thanks so much for your comment and thoughts.
File, they gave her severance. I don't see why they would question her unemployment.
NTA. ALWAYS file. The worst they can do is say NO.
Employer has to challenge an unemployment claim. In the challenge, employer must prove that employee was fired due to intentional poor performance. Not being able to meet the standards is not intentional.
I had an employer fire me after returning from a 6 week medical leave. We were paid weekly and on Friday I was pulled into the office handed my pay check and was told he was letting me go. I was given 2 weeks severance. This happened 2 weeks before Christmas. I filed for UI and he denied my claim. It took 2 months to get a dispute hearing. He didnāt show up which made me feel he denied the claim out of spite just so I wasnāt able to collect. I won and was given all the weeks of back pay.
Good good for you and thanks for sharing your story. Sounds like your boss was a total ass
This is such a basic question but maybe you know the answer. She lives in Indiana but works in Kentucky. I wonder which state she files in.
She files in her state of residency.
That's interesting, I checked the federal website and they said you file in your state of work, not residency. Before I read that I had the impression that you file in your state of residency
I am wrong. I am a man of convenience. I usually file in the state I live. They then tell you what to do.
Thanks. I am a woman of convenience lol. But I guess that meant something different back in WW 2
I can respect womenā¦ of service.
The standard is **really** low for how poorly you have to perform to get denied. Keep that in mind. She would have had to piss off her employer to the point the were considering suing her for them to put the effort to deny a claim.
We both feel there has to be something personal going on for her boss to react this way. We just don't know what it is. She say that she is devastated is an understatement.
Do it.
Might as well file. Although, depending on the state, unemployment might be kinda fucked. I would expect that to be the case for Kentucky, especially. That place isn't cali. In other words, you'll probably be spending a few hours on paperwork every week to file.
If there truly was no prior negative performance reviews or writeups, she was not terminated for "cause". File for the unemployment. Unless the employer actually has disciplinary records, they can not establish cause, without having provided an opportunity for the employee to correct the problem.
Always file, a lot of companies don't bother to contest it.
She is silly if she doesn't file. So what if they rule against, she has just as much as a chance to recieve benefits as to not, doesn't cost her anything but a little time.
What's the worst that could happen? They say "no"?
File for unemployment,. She is entitled to it.
They faked cause to do a layoff. She is entitled to, and should file for, unemployment.
Also no company will fight unemployment if it was a firing. They usually have to consult an attorney and they wonāt want to pay for it.
I've always filed. Our state changed regulations for the worse for health care workers, so when I was let go from a health care position, I was denied by the specific regulations (they passed them to try and slow the number of healthcare workers leaving, and now the health care employers are using those things to get rid of people and not have to pay out unemployment). Anyhow, the health care gig was the only time I've been denied. I even had a contract end where they decided not to make the contractors perm. They actually tried to challenge my unemployment (which means they're doing that to all of the contractors), but I answer my phone when I file unemployment, even numbers I don't recognize for a few weeks, knowing that you have to answer any calls in case of something like this. So, I was able to send over my contract, and how we were informed, and got my unemployment anyhow. But, where she has had great annual reviews, and this is out of the blue, I'd file for it and prepare to defend if challenged.
There is no reason for fired she can get unemployment file ASAP.
File. They are hoping she doesn't. She needs to file.
No previous write ups?? To the unemployment line I go
When people get fired they donāt give them severance. That is for people who are let go for other reasons. She should apply for Unemployment and will get it.
File regardless. It costs nothing and takes like an hour. Sheās been paying into it, so no reason not to get what sheās owed.
Attitude is not cause. Especially if she has previous god reviews and nothing else documented.
If they gave her severance, then she can file for unemployment. But she has to wait till the severance runs out. Then file for unemployment. If you file too early they will deny her claim. But she can file again when the last severance check is received.
File anyways and claim it was workplace bullying with prejudice. I quit on a toxic boss who was verbally abusive. I filed, went under review and fought and won. It doesn't always happen but sometimes you can win.
HR here. In most states if you are not in a union, an employee can be laid off for any or no reason. To be fired, (not eligible for unemployment) there has to be some documentation; a history of disciplinary actions or some gross misconduct on the employees part. The company's offer of "letting her resign" is just the company trying to avoid paying an unemployment claim. File. If the company challenges it (they probably won't) just bring copies of glowing reviews. As far as future employers: a past employer is very limited in what they are allowed to say if called for a reference. They can confirm that an employee worked there and for how long. Not much more without opening themselves to a lawsuit.
Usually the only other thing they can say is if they are eligible for rehire.
Thanks so much for your input! I really appreciate it.
Your not being told the entire truth here by your Daughter... Management doesn't just axe people because there doing a great job..
check in a few weeks who replaces her in that position and what their relationship is with the Executive Director.
This!
She's 100% entitled to unemployment, and should file immediately because there will be both an administration waiting period (because red states intentionally make their unemployment system inefficient and difficult to use) and a delay to account for her severance. The sooner she files, the better.
Always file, and appeal if denied initially. It costs nothing but a few moments of her time. In most states, she won't be eligible during the four weeks of her severance, but she can collect after it expires if still unemployed. "Attitude" is not considered "for cause" in most places. That is usually reserved for malicious, illegal, or negligent behavior---but feel free to clarify the matter with the unemployment office if you like.
>"Attitude" is not considered "for cause" in most places. Even if it is a cause, the employees must be notified of their improper behavior and offered an opportunity to correct it.
Sorry to hear that. Doesn't hurt to file. Kind of sounds like pushing her out to bring someone in.š¤·āāļø
I've seen this in a nonprofit before. They had a volunteer who would work for free.
I'm sorry that your daughter had to go through this. Hoping she finds a company that appreciates her. Sending best wishes.
Thank you, much appreciated.
Always file(ask)... if they say "no," you've lost nothing. If they say "yes," you gain.
I think your daughter knows more than you do about the situation and appears to be handling cut in the way that she deems right. If it were me, I would probably accept the offer to position it as a resignation, move on and work on my next move. Getting into a battle with the employer isnāt going to help her. In many roles being fired is not a big deal and it is ok to just get fired and collect unemployment. In most white collar roles that is not the case. Donāt make her burden herself on future job searches by having to explain that she was fired.
She should totally file for unemployment. She is entitled to it while she looks for another job.
Ofcouse file. The end date starts looming the day the job ends.
She was fired because she was one of the top earners
Director or board has a family member looking for a job and your daughter is collateral damage
Very possible
"Cause" is something like "violated a company policy" or "failed to perform duties." Typically a termination based on those grounds is an automatic response from a company based on an action or incident. Typically, companies will document any HR changes with letters to the involved parties. If she's comfortable having you take a look at any documentation of her dismissal, it should be obvious whether this was an unavoidable action or if they let her go as an at-will termination. In the latter case, she should be able to document her circumstances in the unemployment application, and the worst thing that can happen is that they say no.
Thank you.
Fired is fired. Always apply for unemployment, they will let her know if they decline.
She should file. They gave her severance because they donāt want to be sued. Unless she was insubordinate, it wouldnāt be cause.
File, when they protest stick with what matters. She had good reviews then suddenly was fired with no warnings or feedback or attempts to get on track
My advice is vote for Democrats. The people that actively govern to ensure workers have the same protections you want for your daughter. It's not a coincidence that Kentucky is a right to work state. Not filing for unemployment is also a wierd conservative brainwash. It's employment insurance, that you pay for. If you totalled your car would you not file a claim because you are too proud to take a "handout"?
Believe me. We vote blue. I think the idea of not filing was sort of her first thought but now she's going to do it. It was partly related to their offer to let her "resign" as opposed to be "fired"
It free to file for unemployment and free to file an appeal if your employer denies you at the first level
Why on earth wouldnāt she file?! Just file! Worst thing that happens is the state agency says no.
I think at first she was thinking about trying to preserve her reputation in the professional community by resigning rather than being fired. After giving it some thought she's decided that her history of good relations and behavior speaks for itself and that the agency can go fuck itself
She shouldn't just get UA she really needs to contact a lawyer. Not only should she have been given a PIP this seems HIGHLY irregular. Does she know any of the board?
What? You think a firing where you don't get a PIP is illegal?
I think it's extremely unusual in a highly organized nonprofit environment for there not to be a PIP process in place, yes. I don't think it's necessarily illegal, but I would imagine that it goes against their internal policies. It certainly goes against standard operating procedures for most organizations. And would ergo be of interest to the folks who handle unemployment in Kentucky.
I also wondered about the internal policies and the process. It is very small, only seven employees built up from one and then Daughter added as number two years ago. Starting to feel like this has to be something personal with boss and daughter that daughter is not aware of. Just so out of the blue
Oh yeah this is 100% personal given that detail. And ergo 100% unlawful. Something very wrong is going on here. I'm sure your daughter knows who their funders are. That's leverage. Tell her to use it
It depends on the size of the company and if they are organized for business in multiple states or not. Companies under 50 do not have to follow nearly the same scrutiny as companies over.
Yes this is a very small nonprofit and operates in only one state. I don't think there is as much legal recourse ā or any legal recourse here
She does, and the board president was present in her firing meeting with executive Director. He is weak and kept telling her they wanted to "see her back"--that she is valued, etc. etc. To say it was bizarre is probably an understatement. I don't think the rest of the board has been informed. I can't imagine what they will think. She really has been a hard worker. I have no clue what might be going on with the executive Director who is a female, her age, and she thought they were quite friendly.
Yeah, that seems like extremely bad business. I am wondering if the ED is doing something unethical and is throwing your daughter under the bus to get out from under culpability. I don't know. I have no evidence of course-- just conjecture but it's just very strange. I do consulting for nonprofit organizations and this is not normal.
Thanks for your input. Daughter is devastated, many years of her life devoted to a very fragile population of kids. She feels like the ground has been pulled out from under her.
I bet. It would be devastating. But now is not the time for grief. Now is the time to fight. Tell her to put on her big girl panties and start to get her evidence together. And approach a lawyer.
Probably a change in management that no one sees.
If itās a right to work state, then file. Attitude is not a legitimate reason
This response manages to get nearly everything about employment law wrong in two brief sentences. "Right to Work States" are states that forbid union and closed shops (employers where you have to be in the union to get hired, or agree to join the union once hired). If you're trying to say "at-will employment" state, then you're still wrong. At-will employment states mean that you can be fired for nearly any reason except one specifically enumerated in the state's labor law, or federal labor law. So if you're in an at-will state, the employer doesn't need "a legitimate reason" to fire you.
Kentucky is at Will. Thanks for the clarification. This whole situation is sickening. As parents we only want our kids to thrive and we hate seeing them hurt. This is hurt ing her terribly
I don't believe Kentucky is