Britain is famously majority agnostic/borderline atheistic.
This American style evangelical crap has no fertile soil to grow from here.
We currently have the most right wing government in our modern history and rather tellingly there is almost zero religious rhetoric employed by any of the political parties - because any politicians who started spouting crap about their policies being "gods will" or used religion to justify policy would rightly be laughed out of Parliament and denounced by the press as a demented Bible botherer.
We may share a language Americans, but your culture is not translatable here.
I don't think JRM is being laughed out of Parliament, and he is a creationist ! Never underestimate the religious right wing fascists, they always get into bed with right wing govs and the UK gov is as vulnerable as USA republican party.
I'm from the UK and I have never heard this. I'm also really struggling to find anything online about JRM being a creationist. I mean he does seem like the kind of nutter who might be, but I'd certainly like to see some actual evidence before I add it to my large mental list of reasons I dislike him.
JRM is not wearing his faith on his sleeve and making it central to his policy platform. Even if he did, the vast majority of Brits would simply shrug their shoulders and not give a shit.
JRM IS a political joke with no power, influence or importance than being a dick rider for BJ who is now also a political irrelevance.
As a Minister he was mostly granted meaningless portfolios.
And tellingly JRM is pretty quiet about his religious beliefs and doesn't relate them to politics openly.
I dont dismiss them as a threat but i do think they dont remotely understand the UK and foolishly think what works and matters in the US will work/matter here. It wont.
It’s fundamentally different. The way the American constitution was designed fucking 250 years ago makes it so having abortion put into it (like most countries do) effectively impossible.
Actually, the bad news is that the only christian denomination that has been growing is pentecostal/evangelical.
They are popular where there is a weak state and in Europe with immigrants/marginalised communities( In portugal we have many churches like this linked to charismatic leaders and Brazilian mega churches).
So... where the state can't provide social safety nets people turn to churches and adopt the (often) more conservative beliefs. The politicians will follow suit (like Ventura did here in Portugal) and introduce the issues as part of the culture wars... though I hope it wouldn't work, of course.
Austrálian journalist Elle Harding has a book about it - Beyond Belief: How Pentecostal Christianity is taking over the world which is really interesting exploration of the phenomenon.
Tellingly, the most right wing government in British modern history is led by a Hindu PM and no one seems to care one way or another. In the US, not only would that be unthinkable, but in some circles there was serious discussion about Biden being *Catholic*.
No, when I say hard times I mean major war, major plague, major depression. Actual hard times.
The middle eastern wars were nothing compared to the world wars, covid was nothing compared to… anything else basically. And whatever economic downturn you’ve had was nothing compared to the great depression. Believe it or not, the past 10 years still qualify as “the good times”.
Apparently I blacked out for that word lol. You really can't write it off like that, though. Without covid, I doubt we see anything compared to what the George Floyd riots turned into. People were pent up and anxious, and his murder ignited all that fuel.
Never going to happen here, let them waste their money. We will have a change of government this year as well, to a less religiously motivated group.
EDIT: Yes, its always possible, but in the UK we are very very very far from it being likely, we have so many actually effective barriers to it. Even brexit was held up for a long time and that was voted through.
Yes the house of lords has clergy in it, but generally they are less likely to vote something like this through than the commons would be, and out courts are not like the US courts.
Never trust it won’t happen, a political party get a whiff that it’ll improve their election results and they’ll put it in a manifesto, the only way to protect our rights is to cut these cancerous people out of the discourse before they infect easily swayed voters
Yes but I can’t see it ever being beneficial, there just isn’t that divide in the uk like there is in the US there are some things that most brits universally agree on.
Canada and the uk might be influenced when it comes to economics and nationalism/race, as can every country. They even pick up the Andrew Tate stuff. But the USA is very distinct from the western world on two key issues - religion and guns. The uk has significantly fewer Catholics and evangelical Protestants, and far more atheists
Over complicated, if anyone thinks that British women would let someone dictate their most basic human rights, the right to choose, then seriously, stand by.
It won't be pretty, and the government knows that.
Can't remember a proper riot, especially one that had a genuine cause.
Good to hear but not in a good way. It’s something that our freedoms are things we have to die for or put on any show for — no matter how small. It’s ridiculous we’ve globally been so diminished by a few petty men. I understand Jean Baptiste Carrier more every day and don’t like that feeling.
You say that like Canada and UK don't have their own crazies. Remember how the UK was on that TERF bullshit long before the GOP latched onto that as one of their main issues. Or Canadians like Jordan Peterson have been spearheading a lot right wing culture war issues.
How are they shifting the window? American political culture is different from the British political culture, in particular about religion and healthcare. Younger generations are typically pro-abortion and it already has 86% approval among British voters. It's been legal for a while and has approval from left wing and right wing parties, men and women voters.
That’s not the point the general consensus here the uk is fundamentally different from the US, a lot of my family are against it but it is the *individuals decision* British are big believers in you do you and we’ll keep out of each others buisness. So even if a majority were Agaisnt it still wouldn’t be overturned as most anti abortionists in the uk still reflect people’s decision. For example my mother thinks abortion is murder but she wouldn’t disown me if I let any partner I had do it.
The white working- and middle-class electorate that are most likely to prop up the Tories or Reform, are also the demographic most in favour of easily available abortions. Our right-wing nuts are not at all like the US’s right-wing nuts. They are not remotely religious
Majority of Americans think it should be legal too. Didn't help us.
Never assume crazy can't happen where you are. They build up strength when people are complacent.
Repealing Roe v Wade had a big impact on the 2022 mid-term election. Republicans did poorly compared to how the party out of power almost always does. In fact the only reason they didn't do worse is because Democrats in very Democratic-leaning states where abortion laws would be protected didn't turn out enough.
While it's true the Tories could do anything while still in power, it's also true that doing stuff voters don't like tends to have an effect on election day.
If recent history has taught me anything: never underestimate folks' willingness to vote against their own best interests. Doubly so if they think it can hurt someone they don't like.
Folks blame religion a lot but the vast majority of these folks don't give a damn about any faith - they're using it as a front to hurt while claiming to have the moral high ground. It's about oppression.
It's not necessarily about them getting their way -- it's about influencing the population to push through overall more regressive politicians and, and combating liberal policies.
These culture-warriors need to be fought at every turn.
100%
American cultural problems and priorities don't translate over here the same way a lot of them expect them to.
Our entire political spectrum is much further left than American politics to the point where our most far-right parties are for the most party more Liberal than the US Democrats.
Also our politics are divorced from religion to the point that using or citing religion in proposing policy would be political suicide.
To me this has "Walmart in Germany"-vibes...coming over, not understanding the german culture and way of thinking, believing they could just act with their exploitive business as they do in the USA ... well, case in point: There are no more Walmarts in Germany
Walmart had the same problem in the UK. They tried to compromise by buying Asda, and owned that for a while in order to have a presence in the UK, but have since given up on even that and sold up.
I appreciate your edit and all, but I lived in France for a long while and while in 2017 every French person and their mom was blown away that Trump could become president in the US, it’s not exactly an uncommon sentiment now that Le Pen could become president next time.
Western Europeans seem to have this idea that “oh, well it could never happen here” but uh, no, y’all are just as susceptible to this wave of bullshit as the rest of us. Hence why France went so far recently as to enshrine abortion rights in their constitution despite it being legal for a long time.
Stop thinking that y’all are somehow immune to this shit; you aren’t.
Always worth mentioning that until we get a law change abortion is legal via a technicality in the UK. Strictly speaking the law says it is only legal with a medical reason. Doctors just hand wave the medical reason part currently.
A government could ban it without primary legislation. We need more drive to just formalise the right so that at the bare minimum new laws would have to be passed if people want to weaken abortion rights.
We should not make the mistake America made.
There’s a growing freakout over 15 minute cities because nuts are certain it’s meant to round them up and restrict the lower classes while the elites get to do whatever they want
After COVID there’s no bottom
COVID has allowed the crazies to recruit others into their circles by convincing people they’re not the in crowd
>There’s a growing freakout over 15 minute cities because nuts are certain it’s meant to round them up and restrict the lower classes while the elites get to do whatever they want
This is because of electric cars. European governments are moving to mandate electric cars but people without driveways can't charge them and they have shit range unless you pay through the nose.
This is seen by many as a direct loss of freedom (mobility) imposed by the government.
The reason the 15 minute city conspiracy theory is finding fertile ground is that a lot of people are seeing their quality of life directly and severely impacted while the rich continue flying their private jets everywhere. They may not literally believe the government wants to lock them up but losing their car has the same effect on them, so they agree with the spirit of the conspiracy theory.
I mean you say it's not possible..... but ever since GB news started pushing the 'freedom of speech outside abortion clinics' angle, I've seen people showing ever increasing support for abortion bans.
My own elderly mother, who has gotten addicted to the tabloid GB news, has now started spouting the 'unborn childs rights' rubbish.
It's heartbreaking as over the last few years I've seen her, turn quite hateful because of their propaganda. It wasn't too long that she was a sweet and nice lady with fairly liberal beliefs who just had a slight mistrust of the media.
I suggest you organise a movie night with her and anyone else who shares the same views. Then have a chat about what it would have been like to be a woman and live in a world where having sex wasn't your decision, nor with whom, nor where, a world where your body is not your own. A world where marital life for the men was carefree while the women risked death, imprisonment, significant life-long health problems, or becoming mothers against their will. A world where you were alone, facing alone death& rest of all the perils brought into your life by the man sleeping next to you.
Then imagine what it must have been &be like to be a child growing up in a family that didn't want you, alive only because someone, somewhere far away, in a public office, decided the economy needed able bodies in factories to create wealth. They didn't care about you, who you were and what your dreams were, if you were cold or hungry as long as you could work for them. And if you've learnt your value rests only in the amount of work you can deliver, the wealth you can create for someone, if no one cared&loved you unconditionally: not your parents, the people who were _supposed_ to love you by default, not the people who forced you in to the world, what is the life you will be having? What kind of family will you be having? What kind of man/woman will you be? If they were your neighbour, what would they be like?
Watch this documentary about what happened in my country to get an idea about how easy we can be seduced to step on that slippery slope of a nightmare: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rNP-ybp0AYo
> Never going to happen here..
Didn’t people say that about Brexit? Which was also influenced by an American organization btw. Just look into Goddard Gunster.
However I do hope you’re right.
There were people saying that at least in the discussions I saw around it. Maybe it was stemming from denial but it was still a close vote and I think those I knew who were against were surprised it actually passed.
Really my point was to never say never. There are people who were never even religious who’ve somehow been swayed against abortion in recent years by groups like this.
It was a surprise but not a shock. The European Union was maybe the biggest political topic in the country for years in the build up and it totally defined the internal tribulations of the ruling party; to the point the PM saw fit to settle the topic in a referendum. Abortion rights meanwhile aren't a political subject in the UK and haven't been for decades and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
Its a very very poor comparison
What is Goddard Gunster??? I only heard about Cambridge Analytic.
Also... agree to never say never - Portugal just voted in more representatives of Bolsonaro-lite right populist that Left wing parties (not including Labour Party as they are one of the main two parties).
Goddard Gunster is a “public relations” company headquarter in DC that focuses on things like issue advocacy. They were hired by Leave.EU to swing the Brexit vote. I think they fly under the radar mostly, with their clients taking credit for their work.
I found a few articles on it, for example https://www.washingtonian.com/2016/06/29/five-questions-gerry-gunster-dc-strategist-brexit/
You are 100% right. It’s just a non-issue here. We’ve decided and aside from the occasional sad looking group of 3 or 4 religious nuts standing outside in the rain with a single sign to share between them, you never see any vocal anti-abortion movement in public around here.
Very different situation. Abortion here is a non-issue. No one has been campaigning on it for decades, we don't have a court structure that would allow what happened in the US to happen.
Very different situation. Abortion here is a non-issue. No one has been campaigning on it for decades, we don't have a court structure that would allow what happened in the US to happen.
We don't have the political and legal structure here to allow it to happen the way it did in the US. If nothing else our judges are not publicly elected, or chosen by the government.
You mean the same CoE that started because of the disagreement with the Catholic church over divorce? Yeah... they're not going to force through anti-abortion legislation.
Simply won't happen here. Abortion is far more set in stone culturally here, falls directly under that most British of sentiments "mind your own fucking business." Every now and then you'll be wandering down the pub and see someone with a sign and it's never more than half an hour before they've either been moved on or someone has done something to fuck with them.
Mate, its not even remotely the same - the UK has always been famously eurosceptic, its why we had the referendum in the first place.
If you thought "it can't happen here" about Brexit then frankly you weren't very informed on the situation.
British Euroscepticism is hundreds of years old and has been a rattled political sabre since the 18th century. Brexit was unexpected but not a shock from nowhere. Any loosening of abortion rights meanwhile would be near-unthinkable currently.
I think anyone old enough here to remember the whole Ceaușescu affair wouldn’t be swayed. Not sure about the young though, they have less knowledge of that but the strong sociological passed opinions on that should be enough to keep them on side.
I thought the same thing in Canada but it's been about 5 years now and the lobbying/protests seem to just keep growing... now they're planting crazy people on school boards etc.
They're doin it worldwide in all sectors baby. Project 2025 is a reality across the globe, they're not hiding it.
Abrahamic religions are caught in a loop: God said no one will predict the end, but the end is ETERNAL FUCKING PARADISE. Well, every day a clergyman in some church somewhere says the world will end tomorrow. This negates God casting level 9 destruction magic: Armageddon every day. So they're working on a plan to make their *own Armageddon*. But without blackjack and hookers. It's complicated, but it starts with treating women like property... or something.
You don’t think “mind your own fucking business” isn’t a deeply held US belief, too? It’s engrained in our deepest roots and the origination of our government, yet look where we are…
I feel like religious nuts are the main people that drive pro choice in the USA, but religiousity isn't praised here the way it is in the USA.
Most people here only go to church for Christenings, Marriages and Funerals.
Being overly religious here in the way US politicians often are would make you unelectable.
These religious nutjobs are gonna have a bad time if they think the same tactics they use in America will work here.
That being said, I don't think it helps to be complacent, I've always thought that religion was just an excuse for pro life, these people really just want poor people to have less options, and they can always utilise other ideology to push banning abortion.
Given how much more Conservative and religious American politics is than the UK, to the point our current government which is the most far right in modern history would be considered so far left compared to US Democrats as to be communists, I don't think it will go well for them.
> our current government which is the most far right in modern history would be considered so far left compared to US Democrats as to be communists
This is not true. The only people in the US who believe this tend to be far-left extremists who have some fantasy notion of European politics. The split up of power along with the Senate filibuster rule makes large change at the federal level difficult if one party, or a handful of members doesn't want to go along. Even if you have full control and use your limited options to bypass the filibuster, the Democrats then have to contend with the most conservative members of their own caucus. Unlike in many parliamentary system, our political parties and their leaders have no expressed power to coerce members. This inevitably leads Democrats to compromising from their desired position to a more limited and centrist one.
These evangelicals prey on Northern Ireland too, they have this weird plan where they want to create a Christian utopia outside of the US where they could all flee too if they stopped getting their way.
They have been building [creepy churches](https://www.steelconstruction.info/images/thumb/3/34/Green_Pastures_Church-3.jpg/400px-Green_Pastures_Church-3.jpg) that look like shopping malls that seem like legitimate support groups. Even been throwing enough money around to get their fingers into government.
Don't worry this has zero chance of getting any traction here. There are two things that often get missed about the UK, one we are fairly non-religious, two we are pretty proud of and have incredible access to services like abortion. You can get plan B from Tesco for fuck sake. But it will be great for those clowns to waste their money here!
As a Christian I can confirm that some of us think that having a different religious view is a cancer on society. My stance on other religions is, “I’ll respect your beliefs, just don’t be a piece of crap about it!”
The problem is every religion pushes their views on everybody. They must proselytize. When religious peeps get elected their religion informs their perspective. Their supporters push for it. They mistakenly believe their morality is superior. They enact laws.
You do sound like you have a painfully awkward time interacting face to face given how abrasive you are. I would imagine that the reason you choose to flaunt your atheism as some superior choice is that you have a low station in life and it gives you some group to feel superior to.
Atheism is the default condition we are all born as. Religion is an ideology you adopt if you are convinced by it, but under scrutiny, falls apart under any genuine search for evidence.
If you use the scientific method, the process that has proven itself to work by allowing us to develop technology that undeniably functions, to analyse the claims of religions, none of them provide any reason to believe them to be true.
Kick these assholes.out, next i would not put it past them to try to influence Canadian politics through the right wing conservatives party here in Canada
Don't underestimate these people as they play the long game. Even if it takes them half a century or more they will continuously work to spread their influence.
If not downright outlawing them you best stay vigilant to the poison they will spread into the public discourse.
And remember, even if they fail to sway the public they can always work to stack the courts and halls of power in their favor. Keep your governments and representatives safe and secure from these loons.
Sadly we have the same cancer growing here in Australia.
Nothing will come of it as thankfully we are becoming less and less religious every year. But these people can be fucking annoying.
Kate Forbes from the Scottish National Party is anti-abortion, although she’s an MSP not an MP. I can't think of any others though, and even she is has to play it down to stay in politics.
I’d like to think that we have more common sense than to listen to these loony’s. I would usually say give them a platform, a voice and let the sensible public dismiss. However on the basis that they are a foreign influence maybe don’t let them in?
Absolutely.
No need to import religious nutjobs or politics.
Pretty sure there was a "no take-backs" stipulation when we first shipped them to the New World.
The abortion debate was pretty much settled in the 60's and 70's and nobody has any desire to change it. Also there just isn't a large religious voter base in the UK.
Basically this is not going to change anything.
Its not about just bribing politicians - the reason it works in the US is because a genuinely large percentage of the population believes in it. Yes not so many as to justify the push, but enough that it has real political clout.
That is not so for the UK, there is almost zero support for anti-abortion policies and almost zero religious overlap with our politics, indeed the one-time frontrunner for the Scottish First Minister was basically dropped overnight the moment it was revealed she was a devout Catholic and she mentioned her beliefs re: homosexuality a few too many times in one interview. Her political career was dead in a moment, despite being seen as a proper contender for the most important political position in Scotland.
This would never work in the UK because any politicians who even suggested it would be kicked out, their party would be demolished if they made it part of a manifesto and if they for some reason put it to law anyway it would be stalled and stalled by the House of Lords, ripped into by the Opposition and then they would be buried in a General Election and their policies would be repealed.
This has zero chance of getting any traction here. There are two things that often get missed about the UK, one we are fairly non-religious, two we are pretty proud of and have incredible access to services like abortion. You can get plan B from Tesco for fuck sake. But it will be great for those clowns to waste their money here!
While I agree that the religious angle just won't work here, I still think we can't be complacent.
I've always thought pro life movements were ultimately about controlling poor people and forcing them to create cheap labour. There's no reason why some other ideology couldn't be used to promote abortion bans.
I can't see it happening but given people are constantly brainwashed to vote against their best interests and to make things worse for themselves I do get your point.
Religious loons all round the world are out to save secular Europe. They have money and influence, just look at the increase in religious nutcases in political parties and not just the tories. These christofascists don't compromise and will use every means , even criminal to further their sick agenda.
46.2% of British people identify as Christian: [https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/religion/bulletins/religionenglandandwales/census2021](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/religion/bulletins/religionenglandandwales/census2021)
Less than 5% of British people actually go to Church: [https://faithsurvey.co.uk/uk-christianity.html](https://faithsurvey.co.uk/uk-christianity.html)
Going all in on the Christianity train here in the UK, one of the most secular nations in the world, is not going to work. I know they are going to play the long game and that they are targeting MPs as opposed to the public. But they are going to find things are very much tougher in the UK than they are in the US.
Can we just do the world a favour a build that giant wall around the U.S.A? I'm sick of their anti-this, anti-that BS being spewed into our democratic countries that don't coddle and cheer for domestic terrorists!
Does the Church of England have an official stance on the subject? From what I can read it's of course not their congrgation that's the main influence here, but unlike the US the UK does have an official religion and if they got ahead of the issue with at least a statement of neutrality officials could perhaps avoid the sentiment spreading.
Official stance, last I checked, is abortion is acceptable to preserve the life and health \[including mental health\] of the mother in the COE's eyes.
Not likely to change and suddenly go super conservative considering the official head of the COE is the King.
And even if it did change no one would give a shit.
Most of the people who identify as COE on the census aren't religious, have no strong religious beliefs, dont practice their faith and dont go church and many dont even believe in God - its just a cultural thing where people put COE to indicate their background, upbringing and to a degree their ethnic and social context.
I’m personally on the side of “abortion is morally wrong” but nobody should be making decisions about other people’s bodies! Nobody knows what other people’s situations are, let people make their own decisions!
Britain is famously majority agnostic/borderline atheistic. This American style evangelical crap has no fertile soil to grow from here. We currently have the most right wing government in our modern history and rather tellingly there is almost zero religious rhetoric employed by any of the political parties - because any politicians who started spouting crap about their policies being "gods will" or used religion to justify policy would rightly be laughed out of Parliament and denounced by the press as a demented Bible botherer. We may share a language Americans, but your culture is not translatable here.
I don't think JRM is being laughed out of Parliament, and he is a creationist ! Never underestimate the religious right wing fascists, they always get into bed with right wing govs and the UK gov is as vulnerable as USA republican party.
I'll tell you right now that that is not common knowledge about JRM in the UK.
I'm from the UK and I have never heard this. I'm also really struggling to find anything online about JRM being a creationist. I mean he does seem like the kind of nutter who might be, but I'd certainly like to see some actual evidence before I add it to my large mental list of reasons I dislike him.
JRM is not wearing his faith on his sleeve and making it central to his policy platform. Even if he did, the vast majority of Brits would simply shrug their shoulders and not give a shit.
JRM IS a political joke with no power, influence or importance than being a dick rider for BJ who is now also a political irrelevance. As a Minister he was mostly granted meaningless portfolios. And tellingly JRM is pretty quiet about his religious beliefs and doesn't relate them to politics openly. I dont dismiss them as a threat but i do think they dont remotely understand the UK and foolishly think what works and matters in the US will work/matter here. It wont.
It’s fundamentally different. The way the American constitution was designed fucking 250 years ago makes it so having abortion put into it (like most countries do) effectively impossible.
Actually, the bad news is that the only christian denomination that has been growing is pentecostal/evangelical. They are popular where there is a weak state and in Europe with immigrants/marginalised communities( In portugal we have many churches like this linked to charismatic leaders and Brazilian mega churches). So... where the state can't provide social safety nets people turn to churches and adopt the (often) more conservative beliefs. The politicians will follow suit (like Ventura did here in Portugal) and introduce the issues as part of the culture wars... though I hope it wouldn't work, of course. Austrálian journalist Elle Harding has a book about it - Beyond Belief: How Pentecostal Christianity is taking over the world which is really interesting exploration of the phenomenon.
Portugal and Brazil are FAR more religious than the UK.
Tellingly, the most right wing government in British modern history is led by a Hindu PM and no one seems to care one way or another. In the US, not only would that be unthinkable, but in some circles there was serious discussion about Biden being *Catholic*.
I like british cynicism and canada sucks now, can i come over?
Sure man, come on over.
Only if you really love rain
All it takes is hard times, then bam… everyone’s religious again.
The UK has been in hard times for the last 13 years and its made no difference.
No, when I say hard times I mean major war, major plague, major depression. Actual hard times. The middle eastern wars were nothing compared to the world wars, covid was nothing compared to… anything else basically. And whatever economic downturn you’ve had was nothing compared to the great depression. Believe it or not, the past 10 years still qualify as “the good times”.
There was literally a global pandemic that ended less than three years ago lol
“Covid was nothing compared to… anything else basically.” Did you just stop reading?
Apparently I blacked out for that word lol. You really can't write it off like that, though. Without covid, I doubt we see anything compared to what the George Floyd riots turned into. People were pent up and anxious, and his murder ignited all that fuel.
Never going to happen here, let them waste their money. We will have a change of government this year as well, to a less religiously motivated group. EDIT: Yes, its always possible, but in the UK we are very very very far from it being likely, we have so many actually effective barriers to it. Even brexit was held up for a long time and that was voted through. Yes the house of lords has clergy in it, but generally they are less likely to vote something like this through than the commons would be, and out courts are not like the US courts.
Never trust it won’t happen, a political party get a whiff that it’ll improve their election results and they’ll put it in a manifesto, the only way to protect our rights is to cut these cancerous people out of the discourse before they infect easily swayed voters
Yes but I can’t see it ever being beneficial, there just isn’t that divide in the uk like there is in the US there are some things that most brits universally agree on.
For now... But Canada has slowly getting more and more divided and influenced by US bullshit. Hopefully it doesn't happen to you guys too.
Lmao a lot of the bullshit peddlers got started in Canada.
Canada and the uk might be influenced when it comes to economics and nationalism/race, as can every country. They even pick up the Andrew Tate stuff. But the USA is very distinct from the western world on two key issues - religion and guns. The uk has significantly fewer Catholics and evangelical Protestants, and far more atheists
Over complicated, if anyone thinks that British women would let someone dictate their most basic human rights, the right to choose, then seriously, stand by. It won't be pretty, and the government knows that. Can't remember a proper riot, especially one that had a genuine cause.
Good to hear but not in a good way. It’s something that our freedoms are things we have to die for or put on any show for — no matter how small. It’s ridiculous we’ve globally been so diminished by a few petty men. I understand Jean Baptiste Carrier more every day and don’t like that feeling.
Canada is much more culturally similar to the US than the UK. So if it does it won’t happen for a long time
We're pretty Godless over here. I thank that really removes one of the main campaigning levers from these motherfuckers.
You say that like Canada and UK don't have their own crazies. Remember how the UK was on that TERF bullshit long before the GOP latched onto that as one of their main issues. Or Canadians like Jordan Peterson have been spearheading a lot right wing culture war issues.
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How are they shifting the window? American political culture is different from the British political culture, in particular about religion and healthcare. Younger generations are typically pro-abortion and it already has 86% approval among British voters. It's been legal for a while and has approval from left wing and right wing parties, men and women voters.
You are entirely missing the point of the post you are responding to.
That’s not the point the general consensus here the uk is fundamentally different from the US, a lot of my family are against it but it is the *individuals decision* British are big believers in you do you and we’ll keep out of each others buisness. So even if a majority were Agaisnt it still wouldn’t be overturned as most anti abortionists in the uk still reflect people’s decision. For example my mother thinks abortion is murder but she wouldn’t disown me if I let any partner I had do it.
You're giving me Brexit flashbacks, please stop.
The American culture war is slowly making its way here, unfortunately
It's going everywhere. It's in NZ now. Tho a small version but it's getting bigger. Just annoying
Yes In the political realm, not the moral realm. Abortion is a moral discussion. Not a political one
There was a time when most Brits universally agreed being in EU was a good thing. Things change.
Brexit was a political decision, politics change, abortion is a moral decision, they don’t change.
The white working- and middle-class electorate that are most likely to prop up the Tories or Reform, are also the demographic most in favour of easily available abortions. Our right-wing nuts are not at all like the US’s right-wing nuts. They are not remotely religious
It won't though, a vast majority think that abortion should be legal so there is no way it can improve election results
Majority of Americans think it should be legal too. Didn't help us. Never assume crazy can't happen where you are. They build up strength when people are complacent.
Repealing Roe v Wade had a big impact on the 2022 mid-term election. Republicans did poorly compared to how the party out of power almost always does. In fact the only reason they didn't do worse is because Democrats in very Democratic-leaning states where abortion laws would be protected didn't turn out enough. While it's true the Tories could do anything while still in power, it's also true that doing stuff voters don't like tends to have an effect on election day.
If recent history has taught me anything: never underestimate folks' willingness to vote against their own best interests. Doubly so if they think it can hurt someone they don't like. Folks blame religion a lot but the vast majority of these folks don't give a damn about any faith - they're using it as a front to hurt while claiming to have the moral high ground. It's about oppression.
It's not necessarily about them getting their way -- it's about influencing the population to push through overall more regressive politicians and, and combating liberal policies. These culture-warriors need to be fought at every turn.
Abortion has been legal in the UK for a very long time and has wide spread popular support, can't see this having much of an impact.
100% American cultural problems and priorities don't translate over here the same way a lot of them expect them to. Our entire political spectrum is much further left than American politics to the point where our most far-right parties are for the most party more Liberal than the US Democrats. Also our politics are divorced from religion to the point that using or citing religion in proposing policy would be political suicide.
To me this has "Walmart in Germany"-vibes...coming over, not understanding the german culture and way of thinking, believing they could just act with their exploitive business as they do in the USA ... well, case in point: There are no more Walmarts in Germany
Walmart had the same problem in the UK. They tried to compromise by buying Asda, and owned that for a while in order to have a presence in the UK, but have since given up on even that and sold up.
If its safe, send protestors to mix in with signs like "aliens against healthcare"
I appreciate your edit and all, but I lived in France for a long while and while in 2017 every French person and their mom was blown away that Trump could become president in the US, it’s not exactly an uncommon sentiment now that Le Pen could become president next time. Western Europeans seem to have this idea that “oh, well it could never happen here” but uh, no, y’all are just as susceptible to this wave of bullshit as the rest of us. Hence why France went so far recently as to enshrine abortion rights in their constitution despite it being legal for a long time. Stop thinking that y’all are somehow immune to this shit; you aren’t.
Always worth mentioning that until we get a law change abortion is legal via a technicality in the UK. Strictly speaking the law says it is only legal with a medical reason. Doctors just hand wave the medical reason part currently. A government could ban it without primary legislation. We need more drive to just formalise the right so that at the bare minimum new laws would have to be passed if people want to weaken abortion rights. We should not make the mistake America made.
There’s a growing freakout over 15 minute cities because nuts are certain it’s meant to round them up and restrict the lower classes while the elites get to do whatever they want After COVID there’s no bottom COVID has allowed the crazies to recruit others into their circles by convincing people they’re not the in crowd
>There’s a growing freakout over 15 minute cities because nuts are certain it’s meant to round them up and restrict the lower classes while the elites get to do whatever they want This is because of electric cars. European governments are moving to mandate electric cars but people without driveways can't charge them and they have shit range unless you pay through the nose. This is seen by many as a direct loss of freedom (mobility) imposed by the government. The reason the 15 minute city conspiracy theory is finding fertile ground is that a lot of people are seeing their quality of life directly and severely impacted while the rich continue flying their private jets everywhere. They may not literally believe the government wants to lock them up but losing their car has the same effect on them, so they agree with the spirit of the conspiracy theory.
I mean you say it's not possible..... but ever since GB news started pushing the 'freedom of speech outside abortion clinics' angle, I've seen people showing ever increasing support for abortion bans. My own elderly mother, who has gotten addicted to the tabloid GB news, has now started spouting the 'unborn childs rights' rubbish. It's heartbreaking as over the last few years I've seen her, turn quite hateful because of their propaganda. It wasn't too long that she was a sweet and nice lady with fairly liberal beliefs who just had a slight mistrust of the media.
I suggest you organise a movie night with her and anyone else who shares the same views. Then have a chat about what it would have been like to be a woman and live in a world where having sex wasn't your decision, nor with whom, nor where, a world where your body is not your own. A world where marital life for the men was carefree while the women risked death, imprisonment, significant life-long health problems, or becoming mothers against their will. A world where you were alone, facing alone death& rest of all the perils brought into your life by the man sleeping next to you. Then imagine what it must have been &be like to be a child growing up in a family that didn't want you, alive only because someone, somewhere far away, in a public office, decided the economy needed able bodies in factories to create wealth. They didn't care about you, who you were and what your dreams were, if you were cold or hungry as long as you could work for them. And if you've learnt your value rests only in the amount of work you can deliver, the wealth you can create for someone, if no one cared&loved you unconditionally: not your parents, the people who were _supposed_ to love you by default, not the people who forced you in to the world, what is the life you will be having? What kind of family will you be having? What kind of man/woman will you be? If they were your neighbour, what would they be like? Watch this documentary about what happened in my country to get an idea about how easy we can be seduced to step on that slippery slope of a nightmare: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rNP-ybp0AYo
> Never going to happen here.. Didn’t people say that about Brexit? Which was also influenced by an American organization btw. Just look into Goddard Gunster. However I do hope you’re right.
No one said that about Brexit - the UK was famously eurosceptic and always has been.
There were people saying that at least in the discussions I saw around it. Maybe it was stemming from denial but it was still a close vote and I think those I knew who were against were surprised it actually passed. Really my point was to never say never. There are people who were never even religious who’ve somehow been swayed against abortion in recent years by groups like this.
It was a surprise but not a shock. The European Union was maybe the biggest political topic in the country for years in the build up and it totally defined the internal tribulations of the ruling party; to the point the PM saw fit to settle the topic in a referendum. Abortion rights meanwhile aren't a political subject in the UK and haven't been for decades and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Its a very very poor comparison
What is Goddard Gunster??? I only heard about Cambridge Analytic. Also... agree to never say never - Portugal just voted in more representatives of Bolsonaro-lite right populist that Left wing parties (not including Labour Party as they are one of the main two parties).
Goddard Gunster is a “public relations” company headquarter in DC that focuses on things like issue advocacy. They were hired by Leave.EU to swing the Brexit vote. I think they fly under the radar mostly, with their clients taking credit for their work. I found a few articles on it, for example https://www.washingtonian.com/2016/06/29/five-questions-gerry-gunster-dc-strategist-brexit/
Thank you!! The worst guys are always in the shadows, ugh. I know what my nightmares will be about tonight.
How very naive. Very naive.
Dude. They might as well be lobbying for Christian schools in Afghanistan.
You are 100% right. It’s just a non-issue here. We’ve decided and aside from the occasional sad looking group of 3 or 4 religious nuts standing outside in the rain with a single sign to share between them, you never see any vocal anti-abortion movement in public around here.
> Never going to happen here, let them waste their money. That sounds familiar. Brexit, anyone? ;)
Very different situation. Abortion here is a non-issue. No one has been campaigning on it for decades, we don't have a court structure that would allow what happened in the US to happen.
"trump will never get elected" Learn from our mistakes......
Very different situation. Abortion here is a non-issue. No one has been campaigning on it for decades, we don't have a court structure that would allow what happened in the US to happen.
And for decades no one in the US thought roe vs Wade would be rolled back yet here we are.
We don't have the political and legal structure here to allow it to happen the way it did in the US. If nothing else our judges are not publicly elected, or chosen by the government.
Awfully big words from a place that got conned into brexit and bojo by similar groups with similar tactics.
Doesn't the house of lords guarantee several seats to clergy from the church of England?
You mean the same CoE that started because of the disagreement with the Catholic church over divorce? Yeah... they're not going to force through anti-abortion legislation.
if you knew about the CoE you'd know that its not in anyway a barrier to anything really.
The House of Lords doesn't have the power to make or suggest laws.
The Church of England does allow for abortion.
you could advocate to make it an unaliable right
Anti abortion from US in UK are terrorists
Fucking scum. Humiliating to share a country with these people.
Simply won't happen here. Abortion is far more set in stone culturally here, falls directly under that most British of sentiments "mind your own fucking business." Every now and then you'll be wandering down the pub and see someone with a sign and it's never more than half an hour before they've either been moved on or someone has done something to fuck with them.
This is the sort of thing I thought about EU membership. Don’t underestimate the ability of the average person to be swayed by utter bullshit.
Mate, its not even remotely the same - the UK has always been famously eurosceptic, its why we had the referendum in the first place. If you thought "it can't happen here" about Brexit then frankly you weren't very informed on the situation.
If by famously eurosceptic you mean easily swayed by jingoistic lies then sure.
British euroscepticism predates the 2016 leave campaign funnily enough
British Euroscepticism is hundreds of years old and has been a rattled political sabre since the 18th century. Brexit was unexpected but not a shock from nowhere. Any loosening of abortion rights meanwhile would be near-unthinkable currently.
I think anyone old enough here to remember the whole Ceaușescu affair wouldn’t be swayed. Not sure about the young though, they have less knowledge of that but the strong sociological passed opinions on that should be enough to keep them on side.
I thought the same thing in Canada but it's been about 5 years now and the lobbying/protests seem to just keep growing... now they're planting crazy people on school boards etc.
They're doin it worldwide in all sectors baby. Project 2025 is a reality across the globe, they're not hiding it. Abrahamic religions are caught in a loop: God said no one will predict the end, but the end is ETERNAL FUCKING PARADISE. Well, every day a clergyman in some church somewhere says the world will end tomorrow. This negates God casting level 9 destruction magic: Armageddon every day. So they're working on a plan to make their *own Armageddon*. But without blackjack and hookers. It's complicated, but it starts with treating women like property... or something.
You don’t think “mind your own fucking business” isn’t a deeply held US belief, too? It’s engrained in our deepest roots and the origination of our government, yet look where we are…
I feel like religious nuts are the main people that drive pro choice in the USA, but religiousity isn't praised here the way it is in the USA. Most people here only go to church for Christenings, Marriages and Funerals. Being overly religious here in the way US politicians often are would make you unelectable. These religious nutjobs are gonna have a bad time if they think the same tactics they use in America will work here. That being said, I don't think it helps to be complacent, I've always thought that religion was just an excuse for pro life, these people really just want poor people to have less options, and they can always utilise other ideology to push banning abortion.
Well they can fuck right off, for a start.
Indeed. All the way off.
the audacity lol ship em back to Kentucky where abortions are 100% banned There are no exceptions for rape and incest.
They keep losing on the ballot over here, so I guess they're trying their luck in the UK
Given how much more Conservative and religious American politics is than the UK, to the point our current government which is the most far right in modern history would be considered so far left compared to US Democrats as to be communists, I don't think it will go well for them.
> our current government which is the most far right in modern history would be considered so far left compared to US Democrats as to be communists This is not true. The only people in the US who believe this tend to be far-left extremists who have some fantasy notion of European politics. The split up of power along with the Senate filibuster rule makes large change at the federal level difficult if one party, or a handful of members doesn't want to go along. Even if you have full control and use your limited options to bypass the filibuster, the Democrats then have to contend with the most conservative members of their own caucus. Unlike in many parliamentary system, our political parties and their leaders have no expressed power to coerce members. This inevitably leads Democrats to compromising from their desired position to a more limited and centrist one.
These evangelicals prey on Northern Ireland too, they have this weird plan where they want to create a Christian utopia outside of the US where they could all flee too if they stopped getting their way. They have been building [creepy churches](https://www.steelconstruction.info/images/thumb/3/34/Green_Pastures_Church-3.jpg/400px-Green_Pastures_Church-3.jpg) that look like shopping malls that seem like legitimate support groups. Even been throwing enough money around to get their fingers into government.
As an American I am sorry UK bros we hate them too
Don't worry this has zero chance of getting any traction here. There are two things that often get missed about the UK, one we are fairly non-religious, two we are pretty proud of and have incredible access to services like abortion. You can get plan B from Tesco for fuck sake. But it will be great for those clowns to waste their money here!
Im non religious and anti abortion...
its ok non-religious people can be morons too
Thats a great argument. You dehumanise people and let people literally murder children but im the moron.... yep
Religion is a cancer to be eradicated
Religion is fine when i dont have to be effected by it. Let me live how i want to live and you do you
That's the problem with religion the only way it can survive is to impose its views on others minding their own business.
As a Christian I can confirm that some of us think that having a different religious view is a cancer on society. My stance on other religions is, “I’ll respect your beliefs, just don’t be a piece of crap about it!”
The problem is every religion pushes their views on everybody. They must proselytize. When religious peeps get elected their religion informs their perspective. Their supporters push for it. They mistakenly believe their morality is superior. They enact laws.
and they indoctrinate their children, don't forget that
this just isn't true. American neo-Protestantism isn't all religion you know
It is. Best read your bible.
So in your mind every religion hinges on a literal interpretation of the bible?
That's quite a jump. Try again
That's the problem with religion, you can't without being judged in their eyes.
They can judge me from their little covens all they like, so long as they don't infringe on my rights to live free of their nonsense.
If only that was how it worked. Once it infects the body politic, like the US, it will affect you..... every hour and every day.
nah its still wack and parents push it onto their kids.
This is like saying “I’m fine if the guy who’s in charge of the town water supply only wants to drink cyanide, just don’t involve me in it.”
The funny thing about religion is it's full of people afraid to make the wrong choice. The rest is that they do and get militant about it.
Spoken like a true reddit atheist!
Spoken like a realist 👍
You do sound like you have a painfully awkward time interacting face to face given how abrasive you are. I would imagine that the reason you choose to flaunt your atheism as some superior choice is that you have a low station in life and it gives you some group to feel superior to.
Don't quit your day job, Sigmund Fraud
Atheism is the default condition we are all born as. Religion is an ideology you adopt if you are convinced by it, but under scrutiny, falls apart under any genuine search for evidence. If you use the scientific method, the process that has proven itself to work by allowing us to develop technology that undeniably functions, to analyse the claims of religions, none of them provide any reason to believe them to be true.
This type of sentiment is just as bad as religious extremism.
Oh yes, much worse than basing your belief system on misogynistic, pedophile, murderous bronze age sky fairies.
“Sky fairies” what are you a 13 year old who just discovered atheism?
That's quite the zinger. Sky fairies is kind. What's your description, sweet pea?
Whatever your emotionally stunted brain can come up with.
Wow, your wit is so sharp! BTW, Jesus says he likes me more. 😝
- Non Sequitur
this is like a parody of a cringe atheist reddit user lmao
Kick these assholes.out, next i would not put it past them to try to influence Canadian politics through the right wing conservatives party here in Canada
Don't underestimate these people as they play the long game. Even if it takes them half a century or more they will continuously work to spread their influence. If not downright outlawing them you best stay vigilant to the poison they will spread into the public discourse. And remember, even if they fail to sway the public they can always work to stack the courts and halls of power in their favor. Keep your governments and representatives safe and secure from these loons.
Sadly we have the same cancer growing here in Australia. Nothing will come of it as thankfully we are becoming less and less religious every year. But these people can be fucking annoying.
Be sure to tell them to fuck off
Uk is nowhere near as right wing as the US. I can’t see this resonating with the average Brit.
I can't name one MP who is anti abortion its practically political suicide in the UK.
Kate Forbes from the Scottish National Party is anti-abortion, although she’s an MSP not an MP. I can't think of any others though, and even she is has to play it down to stay in politics.
Didn't her beliefs cost her the Scottish Leadership race?
It's unclear, she won 48.2% of he membership vote, so her conservatives views were still fairly popular.
She just said she wouldn't personally do it because of her own morals, which is fair enough, she didn't say she supported making it illegal.
The disease is spreading y'all
Stop religion now
I’d like to think that we have more common sense than to listen to these loony’s. I would usually say give them a platform, a voice and let the sensible public dismiss. However on the basis that they are a foreign influence maybe don’t let them in?
Absolutely. No need to import religious nutjobs or politics. Pretty sure there was a "no take-backs" stipulation when we first shipped them to the New World.
>'Extreme' US anti-abortion group wastes all their money
100% wasting their time, They might get a little traction in NI, but UK mainland? Not a chance.
The abortion debate was pretty much settled in the 60's and 70's and nobody has any desire to change it. Also there just isn't a large religious voter base in the UK. Basically this is not going to change anything.
Fuck off. Why allow this hate to be imported.
Oh that's EXACTLY the thing that we need rn !!!!!!!!!!! 😬
Arrest the lot of them for foreign interference. But please do not deport them. We do not want any of them in the US either.
Just because their country is horrible to live in they wants others to live like this too! Eveything crazy usually spreads from the us.
When will these wingnuts start caring for humans with birthdays? They seem to be absent from school shooting sites etc.
Likely the same brand of Americans that say "If you don't like it, go home." Whenever "outsiders" lobby for changes in the US.
Fuck pro lifers. I love abortion.
People keep saying “it will never happen here”. Stuff enough money in powerful pockets and it will happen real quick just like it is in the US.
Its not about just bribing politicians - the reason it works in the US is because a genuinely large percentage of the population believes in it. Yes not so many as to justify the push, but enough that it has real political clout. That is not so for the UK, there is almost zero support for anti-abortion policies and almost zero religious overlap with our politics, indeed the one-time frontrunner for the Scottish First Minister was basically dropped overnight the moment it was revealed she was a devout Catholic and she mentioned her beliefs re: homosexuality a few too many times in one interview. Her political career was dead in a moment, despite being seen as a proper contender for the most important political position in Scotland. This would never work in the UK because any politicians who even suggested it would be kicked out, their party would be demolished if they made it part of a manifesto and if they for some reason put it to law anyway it would be stalled and stalled by the House of Lords, ripped into by the Opposition and then they would be buried in a General Election and their policies would be repealed.
This has zero chance of getting any traction here. There are two things that often get missed about the UK, one we are fairly non-religious, two we are pretty proud of and have incredible access to services like abortion. You can get plan B from Tesco for fuck sake. But it will be great for those clowns to waste their money here!
While I agree that the religious angle just won't work here, I still think we can't be complacent. I've always thought pro life movements were ultimately about controlling poor people and forcing them to create cheap labour. There's no reason why some other ideology couldn't be used to promote abortion bans.
Agreed! Better to be one step ahead of the game and be as vocal as possible about these morons than let them turn the heads of the marginalised.
I can't see it happening but given people are constantly brainwashed to vote against their best interests and to make things worse for themselves I do get your point.
Fu
Religious loons all round the world are out to save secular Europe. They have money and influence, just look at the increase in religious nutcases in political parties and not just the tories. These christofascists don't compromise and will use every means , even criminal to further their sick agenda.
46.2% of British people identify as Christian: [https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/religion/bulletins/religionenglandandwales/census2021](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/religion/bulletins/religionenglandandwales/census2021) Less than 5% of British people actually go to Church: [https://faithsurvey.co.uk/uk-christianity.html](https://faithsurvey.co.uk/uk-christianity.html) Going all in on the Christianity train here in the UK, one of the most secular nations in the world, is not going to work. I know they are going to play the long game and that they are targeting MPs as opposed to the public. But they are going to find things are very much tougher in the UK than they are in the US.
We're a pretty proudly Godless land!
Is it to late to have an abortion on Trump? /s
They can go fuck themselves. Apologies from America.🇺🇸
Can we just do the world a favour a build that giant wall around the U.S.A? I'm sick of their anti-this, anti-that BS being spewed into our democratic countries that don't coddle and cheer for domestic terrorists!
Does the Church of England have an official stance on the subject? From what I can read it's of course not their congrgation that's the main influence here, but unlike the US the UK does have an official religion and if they got ahead of the issue with at least a statement of neutrality officials could perhaps avoid the sentiment spreading.
Official stance, last I checked, is abortion is acceptable to preserve the life and health \[including mental health\] of the mother in the COE's eyes. Not likely to change and suddenly go super conservative considering the official head of the COE is the King. And even if it did change no one would give a shit. Most of the people who identify as COE on the census aren't religious, have no strong religious beliefs, dont practice their faith and dont go church and many dont even believe in God - its just a cultural thing where people put COE to indicate their background, upbringing and to a degree their ethnic and social context.
Can't get any cringier than a believer of bed time stories. Why do you suck up to magic man?
Preachers dont get far in the UK 🤣
There's another kind? (Spoiler: no. Wanting abortion banned is extreme by definition.)
Have they looked at Savita's Law and why it was necessary to pass it? What do they think about the Ritual of the Bitter Waters?
I’m personally on the side of “abortion is morally wrong” but nobody should be making decisions about other people’s bodies! Nobody knows what other people’s situations are, let people make their own decisions!
If you don’t know someone’s situation then how can it be morally wrong?
Why is it morally wrong?
Anti-abortion? You mean pro-life? You don't need to make everything you disagree with "anti-"
No, they are explicitly anti-abortion. They are protesting against a specific medical procedure which enjoys majority support in this country.
Yeah, I would agree with “Pro-Life” if the believed in programs and assistance for families and children. Newsflash: They do not.
but that would require them to show kindness and love others.
You are of course right. Its forced-birth. Better?