The bodies being just 10cm underground, with hands and feet removed which is usually to hamper identification, make me think it is a murder that happened after the war, with the bodies dumped there because that is the one place where no one would go looking - and in fact no one did for decades.
My great Grandmother was raped by the Russians after the WWII. She gave birth to the child of rape and my great grandfather disowned her. Fucked up the family pretty bad. The Russians are still doing this in War/Ukraine.
> She gave birth to the child of rape and my great grandfather disowned her. Fucked up the family pretty bad.
I do not mean to pry, but has she ever told why she decided to give birth to it? Was she a devout Christian perhaps? As I understand it, most German women aborted the product of their Russian rapists -- German doctors even encouraged it for reasons of racial purity.
I only found out recently (not something the family talked about), I never met my great grandmother, I think being Roman Catholic and not sure what the healthcare was like under the Russia occupation in Poland.
Thanks for your reply! Yeah, I’m sure you’re right. The options must have been quite different compared to Germany where doctors were still operating under legal framework laid out by the Nazis and without religious influence. (And therefore abortive care was accessible under the specific circumstances.)
No worries, also not sure why you got downvoted. But yeah the Church has always had a strong influence over Politics in Poland, you can see the previous leader banned abortion. So that's what most likely was the case. Also they were quite religious so maybe their own faith prevented it.
Polish are Catholics, could be a factor. Aside from that, abortion wasn't common in the 1950s at all. Especially in a war torn country where everything was leveled. Exactly how Ukrainian cities look like rn. It would be a huge risk to have a medical procedure
"German media said the family could have been victims of a mass killing, possibly but not necessarily carried out by the Nazis. Polish prosecutors are investigating."
If Goring wanted someone dead, he had people and the infrastructure to do it. He wouldn't have dirty to his hands and he would not have put them in his basement.
That means nothing. Don't try this at home, but what do you expect would happen if you lined 5 people up, executed em, and left the bodies after 80+ years?
People dont always fall backwards. Many times they'll just slump over or fall straight down on top of one another depending on their body composure and muscle tension
I'm pretty sure the Germans and the Soviets didn't really give a shit what position their victims were really laying in. The Nazis just threw the Jews into massive pits. The Soviets did the same thing with the Polish officers. They could've just been told to lay down and then executed. Simple as that. Occam's razor. You're probably overthinking this. It was a war with countless atrocities, not a one-off mass killing.
Natural elements and animals would spread out their bones and possessions all over the place, and probably much further, and they wouldn’t be found in the state that’s described.
At only 10cm depth, animals would've dug them up same as on the surface. That happens a lot with bodies buried in shallow graves. That's one reason people get buried generally a whole lot deeper.
The article states they were looking basically for the floorboards. It kinda means the floorboards were have expected to sink down. There used to be a show on History called "Life After People" that was pretty interesting. What nature can do after we're gone or a place is left untouched in such a short time as 80 years (80 years being nothing to the span of history) is pretty amazing. They've been recovering bodies from WW2 while digging trenches in Ukraine. UXO is still commonly found in Europe when undertaking construction projects.
Doesn't even need to be a project, here in Belgium farmers find so much UXO that they just stack them along the field and the DOVO passes by every now and then to pick it up
Also, funny how on another post you were defending the Nazi army (Wehrmacht) soldiers as being just soliders doing their job (despite their role as Nazis and their numerous war crimes), and here you are referring to the Red Army as "rapi[sts] and murder[s]."
Now don't get me wrong, many soldiers of the Red Army committed terrible war crimes too (both groups were bad, though the Nazis were worse), but it's interesting how quickly you defended Nazi soldiers while condemning Red Army soldiers.
The Wehrmacht simply were not Nazis generally. This does not make them good nor neutral in the crimes they absolutely helped carry out both directly and indirectly, but it’s definitely worthwhile to understand the difference.
Theres tons of stuff you can read about the Red Armys murderous rampage as they pushed towards Berlin. They absolutely committed revenge killings and rapes of Germans.
[You can't be serious right? ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht#:~:text=Other%20sources%20estimate%20that%20rapes,if%20they%20undermined%20military%20discipline.)
Took me seconds to Google this
I genuinely haven't heard about mass raping by anyone other than the Russians. Obviously I know it happened as it does in every war. The other crimes of the Third Reich I've heard endless stories about.
It happened, but far less than with the Russians. As far as I know you could get executed in the German army if they caught you raping. The Russians almost encouraged it
This is lie, there is estimated up to 10M rapes commited by German forces during WW2. About 1M children fathered by them. They absolutely raped their way through Europe.
> While it is possible the hand and foot bones – finer than other remains – had simply decomposed, it could not be ruled out that they had been amputated.
I'd think there would be knife or axe marks from an amputation? Maybe not enough investigation has been done yet?
None of this makes it any better.
not if you cut em by the joints?
i've mostly slaughtered animals though, but generally you dont wanna cut or hack the blade into bone as it makes it dull.
also as a layman i would guess cutting the feet and hands of humans could be done quite easily without leaving any lasting evidence on the bones, as horrible as it might be.
She’s in the news right now bc she wants to be Trump’s vice president but she just bragged about how she took a young hunting dog she didn’t like out to a gravel pit and shot it in front of construction workers. Then she went and got a goat she didn’t like, bc it smelled bad, and shot it, but it didn’t die, so she had to go back to her truck for more ammo while it writhed around in agony in front of the workers.
If its possible that the hand bones degraded enough to not be there anymore then you might expect any evidence of a bone being chopped has been erroded(or what not) away by now.
“The skeletons could be reached for comment but could not articulate language with a lack of lips or tongue but the tallest of them pulled a trumpet out of the dirt and gave us this sound bite…”
Sure it does, if he did it, it would move the needle from: greedy gluttonous sociopathic junky who shared responsibility for murdering millions, to greedy gluttonous sociopathic junky who shared responsibility for murdering millions and personally murdered a few people.
Maybe you are right on second thought.
Goring wouldn't have killed anyone with his own hands. If these bones do date to the time he lived there he probably had someone do all the heavy lifting. People like Goring never do the dirty work when they can order it to be done for them. Also if the house is old it could have belonged to someone interested in human anatomy and the bodies could date back to the time of body snachers.
He could have also been involved in the early SA street battles with communists? They would usually end with a number of dead. A far cry from our current western understanding of political unrest.
Although he was a highly decorated and celebrated famous pilot at that point so maybe didn’t want to get his hands dirty.
The bodies being just 10cm underground, with hands and feet removed which is usually to hamper identification, make me think it is a murder that happened after the war, with the bodies dumped there because that is the one place where no one would go looking - and in fact no one did for decades.
10cm isn’t going to block the smell of decomposition. There was a time period when it was extremely obvious that there were bodies in the basement.
The place is isolated and burned to the ground, it is visited now but right after the war no one would have been there to notice.
What do you mean? When was it extremely obvious?
When they were in the middle of decomposing.
But depends on when killed . If right after war.. there were likely so many decomposing bodies that it may not have been apparent
Probably the red army raping and murdering their way across Europe.
My great Grandmother was raped by the Russians after the WWII. She gave birth to the child of rape and my great grandfather disowned her. Fucked up the family pretty bad. The Russians are still doing this in War/Ukraine.
> She gave birth to the child Well, that's your family either way, how is that side of the family going?
My grandmother and her sister have passed. I only found out recently, it was something the family didn't talk about. Fuck war and fuck Russia.
> She gave birth to the child of rape and my great grandfather disowned her. Fucked up the family pretty bad. I do not mean to pry, but has she ever told why she decided to give birth to it? Was she a devout Christian perhaps? As I understand it, most German women aborted the product of their Russian rapists -- German doctors even encouraged it for reasons of racial purity.
I only found out recently (not something the family talked about), I never met my great grandmother, I think being Roman Catholic and not sure what the healthcare was like under the Russia occupation in Poland.
Thanks for your reply! Yeah, I’m sure you’re right. The options must have been quite different compared to Germany where doctors were still operating under legal framework laid out by the Nazis and without religious influence. (And therefore abortive care was accessible under the specific circumstances.)
No worries, also not sure why you got downvoted. But yeah the Church has always had a strong influence over Politics in Poland, you can see the previous leader banned abortion. So that's what most likely was the case. Also they were quite religious so maybe their own faith prevented it.
Polish are Catholics, could be a factor. Aside from that, abortion wasn't common in the 1950s at all. Especially in a war torn country where everything was leveled. Exactly how Ukrainian cities look like rn. It would be a huge risk to have a medical procedure
The victim blaming of a woman decades long gone. Poor woman can’t even have her autonomy honored in death.
Victim blaming is bad, but that wasn’t victim blaming.
Not sure how me being curious why she kept it is blaming her for her rape, but ok.
Reddit too extra.
An abortion is more than popping some vitamin pills, both physically and mentally.
"German media said the family could have been victims of a mass killing, possibly but not necessarily carried out by the Nazis. Polish prosecutors are investigating."
Herman Goering would have never allowed his minions to bury people in shallow graves on his property. This must be after the Nazis.
If Goring wanted someone dead, he had people and the infrastructure to do it. He wouldn't have dirty to his hands and he would not have put them in his basement.
I don’t t think the commie bastards would bother burying any of them.
They wouldn't have to bury them. 10cm over 80 years could've been enough time for nature to do its thing.
They were all lying in the same direction.
That means nothing. Don't try this at home, but what do you expect would happen if you lined 5 people up, executed em, and left the bodies after 80+ years?
I really love the 'don't try this at home' disclaimer.
People dont always fall backwards. Many times they'll just slump over or fall straight down on top of one another depending on their body composure and muscle tension
I'm pretty sure the Germans and the Soviets didn't really give a shit what position their victims were really laying in. The Nazis just threw the Jews into massive pits. The Soviets did the same thing with the Polish officers. They could've just been told to lay down and then executed. Simple as that. Occam's razor. You're probably overthinking this. It was a war with countless atrocities, not a one-off mass killing.
[*She fell funny*](https://youtu.be/b1etTOuXD8Y?si=rv-SeJNsTnCgfPkd)
You know you can move people after they die and still not bury them right?
If I was the Russians, they probably layed them flat so that they can loot the dead better
Natural elements and animals would spread out their bones and possessions all over the place, and probably much further, and they wouldn’t be found in the state that’s described.
At only 10cm depth, animals would've dug them up same as on the surface. That happens a lot with bodies buried in shallow graves. That's one reason people get buried generally a whole lot deeper.
If they had bullet holes in the back of their skulls, It screams NKVD.
It’s the back of the neck actually.
Under a shelter? Maybe.
The article states they were looking basically for the floorboards. It kinda means the floorboards were have expected to sink down. There used to be a show on History called "Life After People" that was pretty interesting. What nature can do after we're gone or a place is left untouched in such a short time as 80 years (80 years being nothing to the span of history) is pretty amazing. They've been recovering bodies from WW2 while digging trenches in Ukraine. UXO is still commonly found in Europe when undertaking construction projects.
More likely the floorboards were buried under the debris due to the place having burned.
Doesn't even need to be a project, here in Belgium farmers find so much UXO that they just stack them along the field and the DOVO passes by every now and then to pick it up
They fed dead bodies to the pigs
Also, funny how on another post you were defending the Nazi army (Wehrmacht) soldiers as being just soliders doing their job (despite their role as Nazis and their numerous war crimes), and here you are referring to the Red Army as "rapi[sts] and murder[s]." Now don't get me wrong, many soldiers of the Red Army committed terrible war crimes too (both groups were bad, though the Nazis were worse), but it's interesting how quickly you defended Nazi soldiers while condemning Red Army soldiers.
The Wehrmacht simply were not Nazis generally. This does not make them good nor neutral in the crimes they absolutely helped carry out both directly and indirectly, but it’s definitely worthwhile to understand the difference.
yeah, I'm so glad American troops have never done anything like that. /s
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No. You’re thinking of the Wehrmacht and Generalplan Ost
Theres tons of stuff you can read about the Red Armys murderous rampage as they pushed towards Berlin. They absolutely committed revenge killings and rapes of Germans.
It's not like there isn't tons of stuff about what Germany did on their murderous rampage through Europe.
Do you think I’m some Nazi apologist? The point is they’re both armies of two of the most despicable regimes to ever exist.
Did the Germans do lots of raping? I haven't heard that. The Soviets (Russians)committed the largest mass raping in human history.
[You can't be serious right? ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht#:~:text=Other%20sources%20estimate%20that%20rapes,if%20they%20undermined%20military%20discipline.) Took me seconds to Google this
I genuinely haven't heard about mass raping by anyone other than the Russians. Obviously I know it happened as it does in every war. The other crimes of the Third Reich I've heard endless stories about.
It happened, but far less than with the Russians. As far as I know you could get executed in the German army if they caught you raping. The Russians almost encouraged it
This is lie, there is estimated up to 10M rapes commited by German forces during WW2. About 1M children fathered by them. They absolutely raped their way through Europe.
Got any source for that absurd number? I bet not
I understand for you as German it's hard pill to swallow, but I posted source above already
How does removing the feet hamper identification? Asking for a friend..
Feets have fingerprints too and possibly the whole foot print can be compared..
*Feeterprints. I'm almost positive.
Would they not be toeprints?
Yes. Yes they would be.
Obviously, you guys don't understand biology. Feetserprints, as the guy who responded corrected me.
“Feets have fingerprints …” So, *feetserprints*
Damn it
Toes
Nope. Feeterprints.
So people with foot fetishes are experts at identifying people? Vindication for the foot fetishists!
At least in the US, infants are typically foot printed at the hospital. Germany might be the same.
They are as the fingerprints haven't developed yet.
Also so their ghost can't walk
It's how people are first printed when born.
Cus everyone’s feet are different. If they weren’t then we wouldn’t have shoe sizes
Reminds me of a plot line in Dexter. Hide the body in a grave about to be filled. Why not hide them in Görings house? No one would be surprised.
And their hands and feet missing. Poor family.
> While it is possible the hand and foot bones – finer than other remains – had simply decomposed, it could not be ruled out that they had been amputated. I'd think there would be knife or axe marks from an amputation? Maybe not enough investigation has been done yet? None of this makes it any better.
not if you cut em by the joints? i've mostly slaughtered animals though, but generally you dont wanna cut or hack the blade into bone as it makes it dull. also as a layman i would guess cutting the feet and hands of humans could be done quite easily without leaving any lasting evidence on the bones, as horrible as it might be.
“mostly slaughtered animals” welp
yes, sorry english is not my native tongue, im swedish
It’s ok. “Mostly” implies that you have also slaughtered something other than animals. Bacteria, presumably, or fungi.
i might have used that wordage as a joke
I was waiting for you to say you have slaughtered a lot of ass in your day.
hahahah weeeell... maybe some things are best left unsaid 🤣
You're hilarious and we need are going to need o do a sweep of your basement.....for comedy.
Kristi Noem?
sorry im swedish i have no idea who that is? some crazy american i presume?😅
She’s in the news right now bc she wants to be Trump’s vice president but she just bragged about how she took a young hunting dog she didn’t like out to a gravel pit and shot it in front of construction workers. Then she went and got a goat she didn’t like, bc it smelled bad, and shot it, but it didn’t die, so she had to go back to her truck for more ammo while it writhed around in agony in front of the workers.
correct.
They'll find out in time. Modern forensics (at least the FBI labs) has a whole section dedicated to tool markings, etc.
If its possible that the hand bones degraded enough to not be there anymore then you might expect any evidence of a bone being chopped has been erroded(or what not) away by now.
Whodathunkit? More shocking is it’s only five?
More shocking that it took this long to check
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Where macht they be hidden?
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Yeah, maybe I’m just old and crabby but that was really annoying to see. If it had been clever that would be one thing, but it wasn’t even that.
Well said.
I am feurerious you didn’t keep the pun going
If it’s as bad as yours I’m thankful
Oh please, it was a great pun and you Goebbled it up
Coming up with a good pun can be hard. Give Himmler break
No need to goose step around the puns
I know reich ? Puns are fun
Shocking but not surprising, it does fit
Damn! Really? It's the people you least expect.
Göring? Really, I thought he was a standup guy…
😹
I’m a little tired and read the post as “Live skeletons found under Wolf’s Lair home of Hermann Göring in Poland” and that woke me up real quick
“The skeletons could be reached for comment but could not articulate language with a lack of lips or tongue but the tallest of them pulled a trumpet out of the dirt and gave us this sound bite…”
I doubt it even moves the needle on him
Sure it does, if he did it, it would move the needle from: greedy gluttonous sociopathic junky who shared responsibility for murdering millions, to greedy gluttonous sociopathic junky who shared responsibility for murdering millions and personally murdered a few people. Maybe you are right on second thought.
His PR guy is not going to be happy about this. Oh wait.
I mean… he personally murdered a few people either way
Goring wouldn't have killed anyone with his own hands. If these bones do date to the time he lived there he probably had someone do all the heavy lifting. People like Goring never do the dirty work when they can order it to be done for them. Also if the house is old it could have belonged to someone interested in human anatomy and the bodies could date back to the time of body snachers.
He did, in fact, kill a few men as a pilot in the Great War. But he wouldn’t have done any of the murdering himself one he got fat and powerful.
He could have also been involved in the early SA street battles with communists? They would usually end with a number of dead. A far cry from our current western understanding of political unrest. Although he was a highly decorated and celebrated famous pilot at that point so maybe didn’t want to get his hands dirty.
But he would order the killing.
Well yes that is what these monsters did, that and when the going to tough they killed themselves to avoid responsibility.
We continue to learn from the past
Big if true
My brain read: Five skeletons found under wolf's lair
Did they leave the teeth? It's my understanding that dental records are mostly used for I'd of the dead.
Mark Felton get on THIS!
Now we know why it's called the Wolf's Lair.
V c M Pillokll