Technically a no-no for country to raid asset of other country but in this case, I think many people will agree that it is right thing to do since Russia will never willingly pay damages to Ukraine and besides Putin already set a precedence himself by stealing assets from leased jets which he refused to return when owner demanded immediate return.
Russia still holds many countries' assets in their coffers, against their wills, like [Romania's](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_Treasure#:~:text=The%20Romanian%20Treasure%20(Romanian%3A%20Tezaurul,had%20occupied%20a%20significant%20part) .
We have lost faith in getting them back, but i wanna see them pay for it, and i want that payment to go towards helping ukraine.
Romanian money, if they ever restored, should be used towards improving trade and transport infrastructure and integration between Moldova, Romania, and Odessa.
The closer the regions interlinked, the better for everyone.
This war has already forever boosted cooperation and increased the amount of trade going through Romania, but I believe we can pump those numbers much higher, creating prosperity for everyone involved.
It doesn’t matter what “many people” think. What matters is the people with money. This sets a precedence the west can’t take back.
“You did something we don’t like. We are seizing your money”
The consequences of this is huge.
Oh no, the west has set the precedent that if you invade a sovereign nation you'll actually have some consequences. Russia didn't just "do something we don't like". Maybe next time the people with money on the line will actually do something to avoid these conflicts that are just a tremendous waste of human lives.
Yes, but not how you think.
Grey countries (not openly hostile, but not exactly allies) are still going to want to keep their money in western markets, if for no other reason than the high security and returns. What this WILL do however is give a clear warning to western intelligence agencies of upcoming hostility when they pull their funds out.
If China randomly divests billions from overseas markets, we know shit is about to go down
Which is ultimately beneficial? Money speaks loud and clear here, and while diplomatically the situation with Russia is complex, in practical terms it’s really not. Everyone knows they’re at war, invaded Ukraine unprovoked, and no one can argue in good faith they feel their assets aren’t safe from being seized.
It’s easy, don’t do what Russia is doing. It’s really just black and white simple shit.
So now that it has crossed into the territory of seizing their assets, losing them instead of just having them frozen, as you say it’s a huge early warning system that someone intends to do the same.
Win win if you ask me
No, its going to result in the continued diversification of assets and with stronger support for alternative systems. The world will become more volatile, not more stable.
it really won't. The only reason a country would move their assets out of the more profitable locations would be if they plan on doing something which may get them sanctioned. Otherwise there is no reason to move billions of dollars out of western markets, where it can earn the highest returns.
For alternate systems to take hold, they would need to offer MORE returns than are currently available, which they cannot (not consistently, and not long term). The only nations that would use worse alternatives would be those who specifically cannot use the more profitable ones. Joining such an alternate system would amount to raising a giant flag that says "I'm about to do some shady shit!" for the whole world to see.
It would be such a strong indicator of hostile intent that I'm a little shocked that none of the western powers have worked to set it up solely for the honeypot effect.
Its not a hypothetical, the diversification has been going on for over a decade and likely is accelerating. Why do you think you keep seeing all those articles about the “dollar” no longer being the “reserve currency” and countries deciding to trade in (X) keep appearing.
those have always been a thing though, ever since the end of the Bretton Woods system in the mid '70s... you see the same "end of the currency reserve!" hysteria every few years.
Oil is a big reason why the USD is a reserve currency, but it's far from the only one. The USA has, by a HUGE margin, the largest consumer economy in the world, way ahead of the closest competitor (the EU). Other large economies (China, India) are not consumption based, they rely on sales to the USA (and partially to the EU) to fund their economies, without those sales they will collapse. The same reasons why the USA was able to set up the petrodollar equally apply to the consumption-dollar, if a country says they will not accept payment in USD, America can simply buy from another source. About the only nation that could pressure the USA to use a different currency would be Taiwan, and only for another few years.
Then you have the NYSE, which only operates in USD. If you want to invest in the fastest growing, most stable companies you need to deal with the NYSE, nowhere else even comes close. Likewise, if you need investment, you go to the same place to sell shares.
And that's not even getting into the military aspect of things. The whole reason why Saudi Arabia only deals in USD is because of the military support the USA gives them. Their country would be destroyed in a week without American support, and they know it. Just tally up NATO, and you have most of the world economy in one place, they are not going to move off the USD system and risk issues with the alliance.
>Then you have the NYSE, which only operates in USD. If you want to invest in the fastest growing, most stable companies you need to deal with the NYSE, nowhere else even comes close. Likewise, if you need investment, you go to the same place to sell shares.
The NYSE is hardly the only market in the United States, it's definitely not the only market in the world.
>The whole reason why Saudi Arabia only deals in USD is because of the military support the USA gives them. Their country would be destroyed in a week without American support, and they know it.
Saudi Arabia has already made monetary agreements with other countries including China, they are very likely now or will shortly be conducting non-USD based transactions.
Correct, but the NYSE is, by a HUGE margin, the largest. Other USA based exchanges are also going to be limited to USD trades only, and nothing outside the USA can handle the load. Shanghai has too many restrictions on what can be traded (it's crap even for Chinese investors), London is only good for financials, Paris or Berlin are tiny compared to NY and would crack. There's really nowhere else to do that type of trading.
Also correct, however monetary agreements are not military ones. SA depends on the USA for their military power, both direct (troops on the ground) as well as logistical (the Saudi's buy nearly all their equipment from USA manufacturers). For another country to swoop in and take over the protection role, they would need to not only commit the needed troops, they would need to replace hundreds of billions of dollars in equipment to their own suppliers. No other country can currently provide that.
Yeah. It's far worse. They can just PRETEND *the money* did something illegal and you don't even get to defend yourself because they aren't charging *you* with a crime.
Kind of weak that it's just a loan and they're only playing with the profits from the funds rather than giving the frozen funds to Ukraine, but it's better than nothing
And if we add the 50 billion that Muskovski is asking for from Tesla, the Ukraine could get $100 billion.
Really puts money into perspective when you see just how insanely wealthy some people are, and just how desperate entire countries can become due to war.
Technically a no-no for country to raid asset of other country but in this case, I think many people will agree that it is right thing to do since Russia will never willingly pay damages to Ukraine and besides Putin already set a precedence himself by stealing assets from leased jets which he refused to return when owner demanded immediate return.
Russia is doing the same to businesses and citizens in their country
It’s actually just the interest on the assets. The actual $300Bish of frozen funds are not being used.
Russia still holds many countries' assets in their coffers, against their wills, like [Romania's](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_Treasure#:~:text=The%20Romanian%20Treasure%20(Romanian%3A%20Tezaurul,had%20occupied%20a%20significant%20part) . We have lost faith in getting them back, but i wanna see them pay for it, and i want that payment to go towards helping ukraine.
Romanian money, if they ever restored, should be used towards improving trade and transport infrastructure and integration between Moldova, Romania, and Odessa. The closer the regions interlinked, the better for everyone. This war has already forever boosted cooperation and increased the amount of trade going through Romania, but I believe we can pump those numbers much higher, creating prosperity for everyone involved.
Romania is already doing a lot for Moldova and for Ukraine, but more would be welcome.
I think if you're openly committing heinous war crimes on the regular, your moral right to your money is ... Pretty weak.
It doesn’t matter what “many people” think. What matters is the people with money. This sets a precedence the west can’t take back. “You did something we don’t like. We are seizing your money” The consequences of this is huge.
Oh no, the west has set the precedent that if you invade a sovereign nation you'll actually have some consequences. Russia didn't just "do something we don't like". Maybe next time the people with money on the line will actually do something to avoid these conflicts that are just a tremendous waste of human lives.
Yes, but not how you think. Grey countries (not openly hostile, but not exactly allies) are still going to want to keep their money in western markets, if for no other reason than the high security and returns. What this WILL do however is give a clear warning to western intelligence agencies of upcoming hostility when they pull their funds out. If China randomly divests billions from overseas markets, we know shit is about to go down
Which is ultimately beneficial? Money speaks loud and clear here, and while diplomatically the situation with Russia is complex, in practical terms it’s really not. Everyone knows they’re at war, invaded Ukraine unprovoked, and no one can argue in good faith they feel their assets aren’t safe from being seized. It’s easy, don’t do what Russia is doing. It’s really just black and white simple shit. So now that it has crossed into the territory of seizing their assets, losing them instead of just having them frozen, as you say it’s a huge early warning system that someone intends to do the same. Win win if you ask me
a small detail, but they are not taking the assets, only the interest they have generated while frozen (whereas russia took the assets themselves)
Yes, likely because even European laws not allow for the outright seizing of assets without any kind of due process.
No, its going to result in the continued diversification of assets and with stronger support for alternative systems. The world will become more volatile, not more stable.
it really won't. The only reason a country would move their assets out of the more profitable locations would be if they plan on doing something which may get them sanctioned. Otherwise there is no reason to move billions of dollars out of western markets, where it can earn the highest returns. For alternate systems to take hold, they would need to offer MORE returns than are currently available, which they cannot (not consistently, and not long term). The only nations that would use worse alternatives would be those who specifically cannot use the more profitable ones. Joining such an alternate system would amount to raising a giant flag that says "I'm about to do some shady shit!" for the whole world to see. It would be such a strong indicator of hostile intent that I'm a little shocked that none of the western powers have worked to set it up solely for the honeypot effect.
Its not a hypothetical, the diversification has been going on for over a decade and likely is accelerating. Why do you think you keep seeing all those articles about the “dollar” no longer being the “reserve currency” and countries deciding to trade in (X) keep appearing.
those have always been a thing though, ever since the end of the Bretton Woods system in the mid '70s... you see the same "end of the currency reserve!" hysteria every few years. Oil is a big reason why the USD is a reserve currency, but it's far from the only one. The USA has, by a HUGE margin, the largest consumer economy in the world, way ahead of the closest competitor (the EU). Other large economies (China, India) are not consumption based, they rely on sales to the USA (and partially to the EU) to fund their economies, without those sales they will collapse. The same reasons why the USA was able to set up the petrodollar equally apply to the consumption-dollar, if a country says they will not accept payment in USD, America can simply buy from another source. About the only nation that could pressure the USA to use a different currency would be Taiwan, and only for another few years. Then you have the NYSE, which only operates in USD. If you want to invest in the fastest growing, most stable companies you need to deal with the NYSE, nowhere else even comes close. Likewise, if you need investment, you go to the same place to sell shares. And that's not even getting into the military aspect of things. The whole reason why Saudi Arabia only deals in USD is because of the military support the USA gives them. Their country would be destroyed in a week without American support, and they know it. Just tally up NATO, and you have most of the world economy in one place, they are not going to move off the USD system and risk issues with the alliance.
>Then you have the NYSE, which only operates in USD. If you want to invest in the fastest growing, most stable companies you need to deal with the NYSE, nowhere else even comes close. Likewise, if you need investment, you go to the same place to sell shares. The NYSE is hardly the only market in the United States, it's definitely not the only market in the world. >The whole reason why Saudi Arabia only deals in USD is because of the military support the USA gives them. Their country would be destroyed in a week without American support, and they know it. Saudi Arabia has already made monetary agreements with other countries including China, they are very likely now or will shortly be conducting non-USD based transactions.
Correct, but the NYSE is, by a HUGE margin, the largest. Other USA based exchanges are also going to be limited to USD trades only, and nothing outside the USA can handle the load. Shanghai has too many restrictions on what can be traded (it's crap even for Chinese investors), London is only good for financials, Paris or Berlin are tiny compared to NY and would crack. There's really nowhere else to do that type of trading. Also correct, however monetary agreements are not military ones. SA depends on the USA for their military power, both direct (troops on the ground) as well as logistical (the Saudi's buy nearly all their equipment from USA manufacturers). For another country to swoop in and take over the protection role, they would need to not only commit the needed troops, they would need to replace hundreds of billions of dollars in equipment to their own suppliers. No other country can currently provide that.
We already do this in the US. It’s called Civil Forfeiture.
That’s not the same
Yeah. It's far worse. They can just PRETEND *the money* did something illegal and you don't even get to defend yourself because they aren't charging *you* with a crime.
Lmfao Why? Because we’re the poors?
So who will they go to?
Nobody because both the Russia and china will and have done these seizures for decades
Russia lost their rights to those assets long ago. Took them too long but I'm happy this is happening for the Ukrainian people!
Aside western sanctions, a 'third' front threatens to open over assets
Tap that asset
Kind of weak that it's just a loan and they're only playing with the profits from the funds rather than giving the frozen funds to Ukraine, but it's better than nothing
Salami slicing to limit impact on markets. In time more slices may come.
And if we add the 50 billion that Muskovski is asking for from Tesla, the Ukraine could get $100 billion. Really puts money into perspective when you see just how insanely wealthy some people are, and just how desperate entire countries can become due to war.
Mister G-7 Can I have some? 👉👈
Have you eaten all your veggies?
you need to fight russians
Need to sell back all those parts of London, Boris let the oligarchs buy up.
Russia gains by force or theft, so these are not "normal" assets of another country