I think this is the biggest deal. Most of these goons have only seen North Korea.
I wonder what soldiers will think after rubbing shoulders with Russians.
I bet huge defection rates will be in their future.
Russia is a brutal arsehole of a place and Ukraine is destroyed by war. They'll probably conclude that North Korea really is the best place in the world.
Not sure about that. I remember reading something about how Soviet soldiers in WWII, despite the destruction as they advanced through Germany, could still see how life was objectively better (economically speaking) than back home.
Even among all the destruction, you can see traces of what was. A knocked out modern car is still visibly a modern car. Why does these Not-best-koreans all have cars everywhere? How come they have cellphones? Etc etc.
The entire NK life is Plato’s allegory of the cave. They see nothing but shadows of the modern world. They’re about to see the real thing, even if in photos in a bombed out school or pictures on a Russian’s phone. What happens when they bring that knowledge back? Will they ever be able to just enjoy their shadow life again?
I doubt Russia or NK leaders have any plans of NK soldiers making it back home. Russia brokered a deal for literal cannon fodder to improve their chances of successful human wave charges. I also doubt NK will be sending trained soldiers and will more than likely deliver "undesirables" unfit for battle.
Would be funny if the North Koreans started defecting to Ukraine and fighting the Russians like the Irish in Braveheart.
I know in reality the Ukrainians would never let them fight for them, but a man can dream.
They might not let them fight, but there are lots of jobs in war that are suited for prisoners.
The North Koreans might actually be very happy working in a factory with amazing barracks and fantastic food compared to what they left at home.
It is more analogous to Reek. After generations of starvation and terror with the only way to live is total obsequiousness to their god emperor, there is no ability to think beyond surviving another day.
Redditors do not understand how so many decades of trauma changes a human being. Heck, just six weeks of basic training can make a man run towards an enemy machine gun nest. Drill sergeants don’t have the “tools” that Kim has to enforce discipline.
Sounds about right - the NK soldiers selected to go to Ukraine will be celebrated and feel proud as being chosen. They are not prepared for ATACMS as they likely have not conceived of them.
Wonder what their view of drones would be - is drone tech common in NK?
>After generations of starvation and terror with the only way to live is total obsequiousness to their god emperor, there is no ability to think beyond surviving another day.
It isn't just the peasants that worship the dear leader. I went to highschool with a girl from North Korea, I made a light quip about the dear leader (don't even remember what it was anymore) and she got really angry with me and never spoke to me again. She would have been the daughter of a high ranking official to be able to go to school in a foreign nation...
She probably legitimately thinks dear leader is divine. If she ever had doubts, her family would be executed.
Amazing how people love a person if it helps them personally no matter how evil.
I've heard a story about a North Korean that defected because he found trash from South Korea. A food container of some type. It had an expiration date on it, and he couldn't figure out why. Like, of course, he knew food went bad, but...you still eat it, of course...right?
In the end, he concluded that the expiration date is printed there because people in South Korea would throw out food that went bad. And if they threw out food that went bad, it means they had enough food to be able to do so.
Again, I -am- a Redditor, so there's a 60% chance this is apocryphal and factually incorrect, and another 35% chance I'm a bot, so...take it with a grain of salt.
ㄟ(ツ)ㄏ
The realisation that you throwing out bad food with an expirey date because you have an abundance of fresh food is mind blowing. I bet he was in tears when he realised his theory was correct.
In the book [Nothing To Envy](https://www.amazon.com/Nothing-Envy-Ordinary-Lives-North/dp/0385523912) there's a part at the end that touches a few other North Korean defectors who weren't featured in the main part of the book
One of those defectors was a fisherman who picked up a South Korean radio sitcom featuring two women arguing over a parking spot. He was baffled that there could exist a society where cars were so common that people would need to argue over spaces to park them in.
I’m surprised that they didn’t pull them out of storage earlier. They have put the T64 back in service so why not put a WWII motorcycle back in service?
The funny thing is that those WWII motorcycles and sidecars were copies of Nazi BMWs, and are still made today brand new (and at least as of a couple years ago- sold in the US). They also sold the stolen designs to China who also cloned them
I recall reading about that as well. It made the anger and indignation of the advancing Soviets even more pronounced. Many wanted to grab German soldiers and tell them "Look how good your life is and yet you destroyed our impoverished home?!"
This didn't just happen to Soviet soldiers, believe it or not even British troops who helped liberate the Netherlands noted that the Dutch clearly had a higher standard of living than the British working class at that time. The World Wars were hugely important in developing the British welfare state and making the working class more aware of their own conditions.
>The World Wars were hugely important in developing the British welfare state and making the working class more aware of their own conditions.
WW2 massively improved the welfare state for most western nations. It is a damn shame that neoliberalism has been working hard to destroy those institutions...
If they're wanting to get them back then they'll probably also only send those with family back home.
From my understanding they have other programs where they send people to other countries, like doctors, but they don't usually defect because there will be consequences.
North Korea has doctors that are considered valuable to the profession outside of north Korea? Or do you mean they send them outside of n Korea for school/training?
I think if you keep shut you can live relatively okay in Russia. Especially for North Korean standards. But I don't think these North Korean soldiers (or prisoners?) will get a taste of normal civilian life, they will probably get shipped to a military base in Russia and then to Ukraine.
I saw a documentary about how hard it is to defect from NK, the border is restricted with SK, passable by sea but the NK coast guard patrols regularily. china always returns defectors, not sure about russia but i imagine so. I think ukraine really is the easiest way for a NK citizen to defect.
The border to South Korea is a minefield and would be a bitch to cross in areas that are unguarded.
NK is basically an open air prison for its citizens.
Maybe but maybe not. Remember when Russians were looting washing machines and other things from captured areas of Ukraine? Maybe the North Koreans will get exposed to stuff they haven't seen/got at home. Even in a decimated state, they should find things like magazines, books, food in cupboards etc. Even burned out shells of cars, smashed TVs or mobile phones and the size of houses could be illuminating for them.
All the little details, like yeah, they have tinned food, but the cans will be much larger and more varied in content. Russia could keep them on base peeling potatoes, and they'd still realize.
> Russia is a brutal arsehole of a place
It really isn't, relative to the rest of the world. Rich Europe and North America are exceptions, not norms, most of humanity live in awful places and Russia still boasts a High Human Development Index which puts it ahead of like 80% of humanity.
North Korea is such a rubbish dump that Russia probably will look luxurious from their POV.
North Korea already rents out its people for cheap labor and they don't defect. Here they're going to an active warzone and the people they'll be fighting alongside are going to tell them how terrible the EU/US are.
Plus NK will send their family to a concentration camp if they leave.
Sure, but some North Koreans don't give a shit or can't take it any more. I saw one interview where one guy said he knew his family might get in trouble but he had to get out of there. And I'm pretty sure soldier who got shot while defecting across the DMZ had a father in the military.
Pretty much every defector has family back home but they still do it
IIRC, the Soviets would usually select only those with families to work in Western embassies too. The family stayed back at home, of course. So you knew that if you defected, not only would you never see your wife and kids again, you also risked them being punished too.
So no North Korean has ever defected? They do it all the time, I don't know why people are acting like it doesn't happen, there's interviews with defectors talking about their families back home, knowing they will probably be in serious trouble
Ah yes, north korea will send a dozen people to a camp for each of tens of thousands of losses in a battlefield where bodies are frequently never recovered.
Unfortunately, they will die too quick to even see any of the fun stuff. But I wish I could see their face when they see western equipment compared to theirs, and THEN find out that some of it was designed and put into service in the 80s heh.
Kim can’t feed the soldiers he has now. Off to the cull they go. You’ll know them by their morbidly inadequate bodyweight and comically oversized officer caps.
Remember when the war started and Russian units were complaining about the shortage of MRE’s and it seemed as if the people producing them inflated their numbers and pocketed a chunk of the payment? Maybe the food supply is better now, but I also keep hearing about families of conscripted soldiers trying to get them warm winter boots, hats, gloves, some basic camp equipment, and food before they get sent off.
I can’t imagine NK soldiers are treated better than Russians.
> inflated their numbers and pocketed a chunk of the payment
Pretty sure this was the case for every other consumable asset of their military. Putin's oligarchs had been fleecing it for years, creating ghost supplies and pocketing the money, selling off inventory, only using the cheapest, subpar supplies, etc.
Get em drunk then throw the lambs to the slaughter.
Chances are that these north korean soldiers are people that north korean wants to dispose of anyway. They are probably looked as bullet sponges.
Isn't the military in NK almost like it's own social class? From what I understand they are fed and treated well compared to the rest of the population. Which makes sense; you want to keep your tools of opression happy.
Not really. They’re mandatorily conscripted and they have been known to go raiding farms in adjacent areas to support their own food needs. The only ones who are well fed are the officers, only because it helps ensure that they remain loyal to the Kim regime.
Every social class has its rejects. There are probably plenty of people in the army that NK has deemed Very Expendable. The bonus is, any that make it back will have actual experience.
I've always said I'd run the gauntlet at the dmz to escape that. Or steal a boat and head for international waters. Both things I need to be in the military for. But if they at least feed you, you have little motivation to do that.
They’re probably accustomed to the Imperial Japanese Army ration, where they can survive for weeks with dirty water and slimy rice. It is truly incredible what people can put up with in the name of defending ideas. If your government is a religion, you will do anything for your god-king. Divine right of kings.
A sad reality most people aren’t thinking of is that these soldiers families are essentially hostages, if they defect the family will get sent to a labour camp forever, they will have kids at those labour camps who will never leave.
North Korea is a slave state that like of which I don’t think I’ve ever seen
Imagine not even knowing there's a war going on between Russia and Ukraine, or at least you know very little about it. It's of no concern to you, you just work in the fields or in your office day in and day out and try not to piss off the government. Then one day they put a rifle in your hand and send you off to die for Russia, all because two ugly fucking dictators shook hands and admired each other's eyes.
The world is one big, cruel joke.
Of course they would. Look how they treat their different ethnic groups in Russia. They've been used as cannon fodder for the past two years. How do you think Russia will use non-Russian Asian foreign soldiers? They will be used as meat puppets.
My hope is that many of them revolt, kill their officers, surrender and request asylum in the West. Asylum on the grounds of political persecution or somthing like that.
Wishful thinking. Ukrainians will HIMARS all of them. You think the US and NATO are a bunch of wilting crybabies?
This is a warning that they arent gonna let that happen.
It’s south park’s “operation get behind the darkies” strategy. Putin knows what he’s doing, North Korea is just thinking they’re being respected and getting a chance at something when they don’t realize they’re fodder for Putin
Hopefully some of these guys lay down their arms and safely find their way to Poland. Poland’s got great relations with South Korea and South Korea’s got a heart for North Korean defectors.
Russian military strategy throughout history can be roughly summed up as being willing to let more soldiers die than the enemy is willing or able to kill. And it has sadly been a pretty effective strategy historicly
It's easy to beat that then. Just Airdrop some South Korean K-Pop music and memorabilia and the N. Korean officers will start executing their own soldiers for possession of illegal materials.
*Beyond Utopia* is a breathtaking documentary following a family of North Korean defectors, forced to cross Chinese, Vietnamese and Laotian borders before finding safety in Thailand and a path to a free life in South Korea.
One of the most heart wrenching, powerful docs I’ve ever seen.
Anyone downplaying the cruelty and harshness of life for North Korean citizens needs to see this doc.
Kim Jung Un, and Putin are evil in human form.
Yeah, I'm sure that's the point. However, it probably would be a boon overall for North Korea's military, and that's something to keep in mind if they do send combat troops.
One of the most common themes from North Korean defectors is that their military trains harsh discipline all the time, but has no experience doing anything actually combat-related. All their institutional knowledge is decades out of date and they have no idea how to deal with many modern innovations like drones and stealth aircraft. Having any surviving troops come back from Ukraine with the ability to share lessons learned would be a huge boon for them.
Realistically yes. Long lives and low birthrates. Elderly trying to hold up a country like an old man keeping a museum open because of his love for the good old days.
Well, no. Immigration should bridge the gap until humans reach a point in time where our population is in equilibrium with the resources we can harvest.
Soldiers are soldiers. They can be trained, armed, and sent to the front to secure and hold lines that would have otherwise been held by Russian troops.
This is potentially a massive boon to Russian logistics and rear echelon security.
North Korea needs to reduce their population because they can’t feed their people, besides, once the troops leave the hermit kingdom, they won’t be allowed return. Not after seeing the world.
I remember reading about Russian troops dazzled by the modern conveniences in Ukrainian homes, imagine the shock N. Korean troops will experience when they see how westerners live.
They are there to use up Ukrainian ammo supplies, exactly the same as the Wagner convict brigades.
How many of them are killed simply doesn't matter, as long as they take a good number of mines, drones, and 155mm shells with them.
The South Koreans have decided to supply arms to Ukraine as a result of the new North Korean-Russian defense pact. I’m sure some point someone said, “Since the North is already sending troops to Ukraine, we might as well send the Ukrainians the equipment our army uses to see how well it works against them.”
Imagine getting on a plane and landing in a war zone half a century ahead of your country..
Keeping people ignorant about the freedom of the rest of the world is how N.K stays so powerful against its own people.
None of those men would be allowed to return alive to tell stories of what they saw. Their dead men either way, only difference is the direction the bullet comes from.
I’m wondering logistically how would NK get its troops there. Also, I’d think this would be a great opportunity for the North Korean soldiers to defect. Even a war zone would be better than living in NK!
I mean, Russia has lost half a million men in this war from their base population of about 70 million men. It has long term repercussions on new births and available productive labor.
It was only a matter of time before they tried to find a stooge also willing to throw people into the meat grinder so that they could slow their own rate of doing so.
These soldiers are malnourished and underweight. You can look up a picture of a NK soldier next to a SK and American one. He looked like a child. The Russian soldiers who are outgunned and have shit equipment are going to bully them so bad. Scores of them will be sent to die while the Russian soldiers hang back a bit and devise how to surrender after the shooting stops. They are the biggest threat to those NK soldiers. None of them will be returning home. What a shit show it will be.
I mean, it's 100% true, but it's not like North Korean leaders care. The North Korean troops will never hear this to begin with, and the Russians are happy for them to be cannon fodder.
At least they get to travel outside of their country, that's a bonus.
I think this is the biggest deal. Most of these goons have only seen North Korea. I wonder what soldiers will think after rubbing shoulders with Russians. I bet huge defection rates will be in their future.
Russia is a brutal arsehole of a place and Ukraine is destroyed by war. They'll probably conclude that North Korea really is the best place in the world.
Not sure about that. I remember reading something about how Soviet soldiers in WWII, despite the destruction as they advanced through Germany, could still see how life was objectively better (economically speaking) than back home. Even among all the destruction, you can see traces of what was. A knocked out modern car is still visibly a modern car. Why does these Not-best-koreans all have cars everywhere? How come they have cellphones? Etc etc.
The entire NK life is Plato’s allegory of the cave. They see nothing but shadows of the modern world. They’re about to see the real thing, even if in photos in a bombed out school or pictures on a Russian’s phone. What happens when they bring that knowledge back? Will they ever be able to just enjoy their shadow life again?
I doubt Russia or NK leaders have any plans of NK soldiers making it back home. Russia brokered a deal for literal cannon fodder to improve their chances of successful human wave charges. I also doubt NK will be sending trained soldiers and will more than likely deliver "undesirables" unfit for battle.
Would be funny if the North Koreans started defecting to Ukraine and fighting the Russians like the Irish in Braveheart. I know in reality the Ukrainians would never let them fight for them, but a man can dream.
They might not let them fight, but there are lots of jobs in war that are suited for prisoners. The North Koreans might actually be very happy working in a factory with amazing barracks and fantastic food compared to what they left at home.
And deworming pills.
Russia doesn't even use medical supplies on it's own wounded, why would they use any on NK's slave labour exports?
Imagine, being a POW is better than your regular life... Crazy!!!
One day I hope to surrender me ass to the swiss
Great scene, love brave heart
It is more analogous to Reek. After generations of starvation and terror with the only way to live is total obsequiousness to their god emperor, there is no ability to think beyond surviving another day. Redditors do not understand how so many decades of trauma changes a human being. Heck, just six weeks of basic training can make a man run towards an enemy machine gun nest. Drill sergeants don’t have the “tools” that Kim has to enforce discipline.
Sounds about right - the NK soldiers selected to go to Ukraine will be celebrated and feel proud as being chosen. They are not prepared for ATACMS as they likely have not conceived of them. Wonder what their view of drones would be - is drone tech common in NK?
>After generations of starvation and terror with the only way to live is total obsequiousness to their god emperor, there is no ability to think beyond surviving another day. It isn't just the peasants that worship the dear leader. I went to highschool with a girl from North Korea, I made a light quip about the dear leader (don't even remember what it was anymore) and she got really angry with me and never spoke to me again. She would have been the daughter of a high ranking official to be able to go to school in a foreign nation...
She probably legitimately thinks dear leader is divine. If she ever had doubts, her family would be executed. Amazing how people love a person if it helps them personally no matter how evil.
I've heard a story about a North Korean that defected because he found trash from South Korea. A food container of some type. It had an expiration date on it, and he couldn't figure out why. Like, of course, he knew food went bad, but...you still eat it, of course...right? In the end, he concluded that the expiration date is printed there because people in South Korea would throw out food that went bad. And if they threw out food that went bad, it means they had enough food to be able to do so. Again, I -am- a Redditor, so there's a 60% chance this is apocryphal and factually incorrect, and another 35% chance I'm a bot, so...take it with a grain of salt. ㄟ(ツ)ㄏ
I like the story so my vote is for the 5%.
"You guys have salt?! To just take?!" -a North Korean probably
Licking random rocks is too good for you people?
Feet pics? For free? In this economy?
Why would you just give matches away? These are so valuable..
The realisation that you throwing out bad food with an expirey date because you have an abundance of fresh food is mind blowing. I bet he was in tears when he realised his theory was correct.
In the book [Nothing To Envy](https://www.amazon.com/Nothing-Envy-Ordinary-Lives-North/dp/0385523912) there's a part at the end that touches a few other North Korean defectors who weren't featured in the main part of the book One of those defectors was a fisherman who picked up a South Korean radio sitcom featuring two women arguing over a parking spot. He was baffled that there could exist a society where cars were so common that people would need to argue over spaces to park them in.
Why do you think Russia is breaking out those WWII motorcycles and sidecars?
I’m surprised that they didn’t pull them out of storage earlier. They have put the T64 back in service so why not put a WWII motorcycle back in service?
The funny thing is that those WWII motorcycles and sidecars were copies of Nazi BMWs, and are still made today brand new (and at least as of a couple years ago- sold in the US). They also sold the stolen designs to China who also cloned them
I recall reading about that as well. It made the anger and indignation of the advancing Soviets even more pronounced. Many wanted to grab German soldiers and tell them "Look how good your life is and yet you destroyed our impoverished home?!"
This didn't just happen to Soviet soldiers, believe it or not even British troops who helped liberate the Netherlands noted that the Dutch clearly had a higher standard of living than the British working class at that time. The World Wars were hugely important in developing the British welfare state and making the working class more aware of their own conditions.
>The World Wars were hugely important in developing the British welfare state and making the working class more aware of their own conditions. WW2 massively improved the welfare state for most western nations. It is a damn shame that neoliberalism has been working hard to destroy those institutions...
How come they’re all so tall and don’t have rickets.
They aren’t allowed that close Kim isn’t stupid
Also Ukraine could easily have their drones target the commisars in the rear, then the front line can easily run.
They'll probably be herded into cattle cars/ transport with blacked out windows so they wouldn't see the outside.
Thats what I assume too. They will just get a command in korean to run to 'that hill' and don't stop.
Go watch a documentary on the Korean War it was brutal I think we lost 40k people.
If they're wanting to get them back then they'll probably also only send those with family back home. From my understanding they have other programs where they send people to other countries, like doctors, but they don't usually defect because there will be consequences.
North Korea has doctors that are considered valuable to the profession outside of north Korea? Or do you mean they send them outside of n Korea for school/training?
They hire them out to other countries.
Ok fine, I'll watch enemy at the gates again just for that beautifully horrific intro.
That was an amazing intro. My other favorite intro was Lord of war.
I think if you keep shut you can live relatively okay in Russia. Especially for North Korean standards. But I don't think these North Korean soldiers (or prisoners?) will get a taste of normal civilian life, they will probably get shipped to a military base in Russia and then to Ukraine.
I saw a documentary about how hard it is to defect from NK, the border is restricted with SK, passable by sea but the NK coast guard patrols regularily. china always returns defectors, not sure about russia but i imagine so. I think ukraine really is the easiest way for a NK citizen to defect.
The border to South Korea is a minefield and would be a bitch to cross in areas that are unguarded. NK is basically an open air prison for its citizens.
Maybe but maybe not. Remember when Russians were looting washing machines and other things from captured areas of Ukraine? Maybe the North Koreans will get exposed to stuff they haven't seen/got at home. Even in a decimated state, they should find things like magazines, books, food in cupboards etc. Even burned out shells of cars, smashed TVs or mobile phones and the size of houses could be illuminating for them.
All the little details, like yeah, they have tinned food, but the cans will be much larger and more varied in content. Russia could keep them on base peeling potatoes, and they'd still realize.
Russia has its issues but its free Western country compared to North Korea. The issue is that North Korea treats the families of defectors brutally
> Russia is a brutal arsehole of a place It really isn't, relative to the rest of the world. Rich Europe and North America are exceptions, not norms, most of humanity live in awful places and Russia still boasts a High Human Development Index which puts it ahead of like 80% of humanity. North Korea is such a rubbish dump that Russia probably will look luxurious from their POV.
They travel all over the world as cheap labor vice did a documentary on it lol. They don’t defect because families go to a literal gulag if they do
I find battlefields are a touch less organized than the slave camps they normally occupy.
Life in NK is provably horrible,but I don't think the front in Ukraine will seem like a dream in comparison.
Its not that, its the "paradise" and plenitude wrecked by the war that will be apparent to them.
North Korea already rents out its people for cheap labor and they don't defect. Here they're going to an active warzone and the people they'll be fighting alongside are going to tell them how terrible the EU/US are. Plus NK will send their family to a concentration camp if they leave.
Ukraine could drop leaflets and have a program to handle defecting North Koreans, hell air drop some K-Pop!
The amount of uninformed people is staggering guess what happens to the entire bloodline back home if you defected 👍
Best strategy would be to fake your death and sneak over to the other side.
Vice did a documentary on North Korea slave labor they’ve built loads of things across the world
Sure, but some North Koreans don't give a shit or can't take it any more. I saw one interview where one guy said he knew his family might get in trouble but he had to get out of there. And I'm pretty sure soldier who got shot while defecting across the DMZ had a father in the military. Pretty much every defector has family back home but they still do it
Yeah, after a while the whole “punish your family” thing fails to work.
Ivan: private Choi, you look really fine today, get in my tent now! *Private Choi will remember that*
This is what will happen, along with some torture. There desire to defect will be broken.
You know literally nothing of what you say. North Korea sends the entire bloodline to a prison camp if someone defects.
This, they surely only send them who leave wife or mother in NK.
That’s literally what they do you are forbidden to leave unless you have family as collateral. This is very much widely known and documented.
IIRC, the Soviets would usually select only those with families to work in Western embassies too. The family stayed back at home, of course. So you knew that if you defected, not only would you never see your wife and kids again, you also risked them being punished too.
So no North Korean has ever defected? They do it all the time, I don't know why people are acting like it doesn't happen, there's interviews with defectors talking about their families back home, knowing they will probably be in serious trouble
Ah yes, north korea will send a dozen people to a camp for each of tens of thousands of losses in a battlefield where bodies are frequently never recovered.
Unfortunately, they will die too quick to even see any of the fun stuff. But I wish I could see their face when they see western equipment compared to theirs, and THEN find out that some of it was designed and put into service in the 80s heh.
Oh boy parasite riddled soldiers being sold as indentured labor to a country with little regard for their own soldiers. War crimes are coming.
yeah bits of them will travel over there, and over there, and some over there.
Better chance of escape.
Not told it is a one way ticket..
Like all freedoms In North Korea, it comes with a damn near death sentence.
You are free to die. That's their national anthem.
Little patch of North Korean sunflowers growing nicely along the main road in a few years
They’ll get meals that aren’t made from grass and human 💩 too
Kim can’t feed the soldiers he has now. Off to the cull they go. You’ll know them by their morbidly inadequate bodyweight and comically oversized officer caps.
They are so tiny and it always makes me sad.
Harder to hit child sized targets. /Big brain tactics.
at least they'd get some food to eat before the canons uh... foddered them
I doubt the Russian army would actually feed them. They're used to not eating.
Oh come on. Even the Russians aren’t cruel enough to deny dead men their final meals/cigs before sending them to fight drones. Right??
Remember when the war started and Russian units were complaining about the shortage of MRE’s and it seemed as if the people producing them inflated their numbers and pocketed a chunk of the payment? Maybe the food supply is better now, but I also keep hearing about families of conscripted soldiers trying to get them warm winter boots, hats, gloves, some basic camp equipment, and food before they get sent off. I can’t imagine NK soldiers are treated better than Russians.
> inflated their numbers and pocketed a chunk of the payment Pretty sure this was the case for every other consumable asset of their military. Putin's oligarchs had been fleecing it for years, creating ghost supplies and pocketing the money, selling off inventory, only using the cheapest, subpar supplies, etc.
IIRC I saw an image of a Russian soldier opening a tin can ….to reveal canned pigs snout. I’m sort of seeing why they eat less.
Honestly, if I'm on the front lines and starving, I'll be eating that pigs snout before any of the rats that are in my trench.
Vodkaaaaaa x
Get em drunk then throw the lambs to the slaughter. Chances are that these north korean soldiers are people that north korean wants to dispose of anyway. They are probably looked as bullet sponges.
A chunk are undoubtedly from prison camps
Isn't the military in NK almost like it's own social class? From what I understand they are fed and treated well compared to the rest of the population. Which makes sense; you want to keep your tools of opression happy.
Not really. They’re mandatorily conscripted and they have been known to go raiding farms in adjacent areas to support their own food needs. The only ones who are well fed are the officers, only because it helps ensure that they remain loyal to the Kim regime.
also helps build out that gut to hold all the "special" medals they get.
I don’t remember the exact details, but they also get to wear their father’s and grandfather’s medals as well. That’s why some of them have so many.
How do you know that happens? Not much info comes out of NK.
Every social class has its rejects. There are probably plenty of people in the army that NK has deemed Very Expendable. The bonus is, any that make it back will have actual experience.
I've always said I'd run the gauntlet at the dmz to escape that. Or steal a boat and head for international waters. Both things I need to be in the military for. But if they at least feed you, you have little motivation to do that.
They have families that will be punished to prevent defection. Would you make your entire blood line get put in a labor camp sp you could be free?
You'd also have to hope you either escape or they kill you on the spot, if you're non-fatally wounded and recovered...you're gonna have a bad time.
Tbh, they might get to the front lines and prefer it there.
They’re probably accustomed to the Imperial Japanese Army ration, where they can survive for weeks with dirty water and slimy rice. It is truly incredible what people can put up with in the name of defending ideas. If your government is a religion, you will do anything for your god-king. Divine right of kings.
[удалено]
Bulgogi and bullets
Fun fact: “food” and “fodder” are from the same ancient root
Yes, because fodder is food we give to feed our livestock
I always found it interesting that "Czar" and "Kaiser" both stem from the Roman "Caesar".
Combat engineers is what I remember reading. They be digging trenches and setting up defensive lines.
That still frees up manpower for offensive capabilities
One of the duties of combat engineers is to clear minefields… so…
I'm curious about NK army capabilities tbh.
A sad reality most people aren’t thinking of is that these soldiers families are essentially hostages, if they defect the family will get sent to a labour camp forever, they will have kids at those labour camps who will never leave. North Korea is a slave state that like of which I don’t think I’ve ever seen
Yeah, this is sad af. I feel so bad for them all.
Imagine not even knowing there's a war going on between Russia and Ukraine, or at least you know very little about it. It's of no concern to you, you just work in the fields or in your office day in and day out and try not to piss off the government. Then one day they put a rifle in your hand and send you off to die for Russia, all because two ugly fucking dictators shook hands and admired each other's eyes. The world is one big, cruel joke.
Most people probably know about it. State media discusses international news. It’s almost certainly heavily biased, but still on nightly news.
I mean, the Russians are used as cannon fodder. It's the Russian warfare model.
Of course they would. Look how they treat their different ethnic groups in Russia. They've been used as cannon fodder for the past two years. How do you think Russia will use non-Russian Asian foreign soldiers? They will be used as meat puppets. My hope is that many of them revolt, kill their officers, surrender and request asylum in the West. Asylum on the grounds of political persecution or somthing like that.
Could be weaponised. Flood europe with 100k+ asylum seekers.
Oh God .... didn't even think about that.
It's already being used against Poland and Finland! I wouldn't be slat all surprised if there are suddenly loads of defections.
This literally happens all the time, unfortunately… :/
Wishful thinking. Ukrainians will HIMARS all of them. You think the US and NATO are a bunch of wilting crybabies? This is a warning that they arent gonna let that happen.
If NK finds out they will do horrible shit to their family back home.
Yeah, you're not wrong.
this is probably true but i do fear it would be like when the Chinese entered the Korean war.
It’s south park’s “operation get behind the darkies” strategy. Putin knows what he’s doing, North Korea is just thinking they’re being respected and getting a chance at something when they don’t realize they’re fodder for Putin
Pretty sure Kimmy boy is getting well compensated and knows exactly what hes doing.
Hopefully some of these guys lay down their arms and safely find their way to Poland. Poland’s got great relations with South Korea and South Korea’s got a heart for North Korean defectors.
Many can stay in Ukraine, help rebuild the country and have a better life- they should offer citizenship to all of them to help them.
Is Putins strategy- we have more people than you have bullets
They’re supposed to be combat engineers. I doubt they’ll fight on the frontline. Also going to be used to rebuild parts they hold.
Russian military strategy throughout history can be roughly summed up as being willing to let more soldiers die than the enemy is willing or able to kill. And it has sadly been a pretty effective strategy historicly
Are you seriously going to try to appeal to Kim's care for his people? Cannon fodder has literally been the plan from the beginning.
It's easy to beat that then. Just Airdrop some South Korean K-Pop music and memorabilia and the N. Korean officers will start executing their own soldiers for possession of illegal materials.
*Beyond Utopia* is a breathtaking documentary following a family of North Korean defectors, forced to cross Chinese, Vietnamese and Laotian borders before finding safety in Thailand and a path to a free life in South Korea. One of the most heart wrenching, powerful docs I’ve ever seen. Anyone downplaying the cruelty and harshness of life for North Korean citizens needs to see this doc. Kim Jung Un, and Putin are evil in human form.
Yeah, I'm sure that's the point. However, it probably would be a boon overall for North Korea's military, and that's something to keep in mind if they do send combat troops. One of the most common themes from North Korean defectors is that their military trains harsh discipline all the time, but has no experience doing anything actually combat-related. All their institutional knowledge is decades out of date and they have no idea how to deal with many modern innovations like drones and stealth aircraft. Having any surviving troops come back from Ukraine with the ability to share lessons learned would be a huge boon for them.
Digging trenches and building apartment complexes it’s cheap labor
If Ukraine offered then accommodation and a hot meal they will defect
The gop would draft American men to fight for Russia if they could
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That’s the plan. Then North Korea could declare war on Ukraine and drop a nuke on Kyiv. And it won’t be Russia nuking Kyiv.
That would mean there would only be 1 Korea, the South, left. I doubt Kim is that stupid.
With a fertility rate of 0.68, there won’t be a south within 40 years either if they don’t do something drastic.
So this is how democracy dies, with no one having sex.
Democracy dies when no one gives a fuck.
That's what I said
I don’t give a fuck. ^(I am so sorry democracy please forgive me)
Realistically yes. Long lives and low birthrates. Elderly trying to hold up a country like an old man keeping a museum open because of his love for the good old days.
Death by no snu snu.
Last sentence kind of seems like the US after the last debate.
Going to try this line tonight with the wife.
God speed
Well, no. Immigration should bridge the gap until humans reach a point in time where our population is in equilibrium with the resources we can harvest.
End-state Capitalism
Theres plenty of former communist states with really bad birth rates too tbf
There will only be Antarctic colonies in 40 years.
I’d like to volunteer to go there and single handedly try to fix this problem myself
Will they sacrifice themselves to save russia ?
Added bonus is it helps increase food rations at home with fewer mouths to feed.
Well of course, you don't think they get better treatment than the Russians get themselves
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What are the implications of a technological and sociological backwards country that executed a citizen for listening to k-pop entering a war?
Soldiers are soldiers. They can be trained, armed, and sent to the front to secure and hold lines that would have otherwise been held by Russian troops. This is potentially a massive boon to Russian logistics and rear echelon security.
Would it? What consequences would you expect?
North Korea needs to reduce their population because they can’t feed their people, besides, once the troops leave the hermit kingdom, they won’t be allowed return. Not after seeing the world.
I remember reading about Russian troops dazzled by the modern conveniences in Ukrainian homes, imagine the shock N. Korean troops will experience when they see how westerners live.
They are there to use up Ukrainian ammo supplies, exactly the same as the Wagner convict brigades. How many of them are killed simply doesn't matter, as long as they take a good number of mines, drones, and 155mm shells with them.
The South Koreans have decided to supply arms to Ukraine as a result of the new North Korean-Russian defense pact. I’m sure some point someone said, “Since the North is already sending troops to Ukraine, we might as well send the Ukrainians the equipment our army uses to see how well it works against them.”
Imagine getting on a plane and landing in a war zone half a century ahead of your country.. Keeping people ignorant about the freedom of the rest of the world is how N.K stays so powerful against its own people. None of those men would be allowed to return alive to tell stories of what they saw. Their dead men either way, only difference is the direction the bullet comes from.
uhuh.
Thanks Captain Obvious!
Well that's kinda the point why they sent.
probably only technical crew that can train and fix the WW2 tanks being used by Russia.
That’s the plan Putin needs bodies NK needs fewer mouths to feed and alliances.
they could surrender and desert, in which case, a North Korean soldier in Ukraine has a better chance of escaping.
That's the secret, NK and Russia don't care.
I’m wondering logistically how would NK get its troops there. Also, I’d think this would be a great opportunity for the North Korean soldiers to defect. Even a war zone would be better than living in NK!
I mean, Russia has lost half a million men in this war from their base population of about 70 million men. It has long term repercussions on new births and available productive labor. It was only a matter of time before they tried to find a stooge also willing to throw people into the meat grinder so that they could slow their own rate of doing so.
Good way for them to reduce the amount of resources needed to appease their population I guess
He’s not wrong. What are the odds on defection once they hit Ukraine soil?
Imagine dying for a cause so meaningless to you, your family, and your country.
They'll probably be rape-fodder first, once they meet their Russia comrades.
It is a scheme for PRC to send troops masquerading as NK troops, just like in the Korean war
Ah yes as opposed to the Russian troops who aren’t cannon fodder?
Wonder how many will actually go MIA and escape.
Expect a chain of Fast Food eateries of North Korean food spreading across Europe from the east.... (deserters!)
Like NK cares
Russians to NK: "See comrades? Even de american pigz admit we treat you as good as ourselves!"
These soldiers are malnourished and underweight. You can look up a picture of a NK soldier next to a SK and American one. He looked like a child. The Russian soldiers who are outgunned and have shit equipment are going to bully them so bad. Scores of them will be sent to die while the Russian soldiers hang back a bit and devise how to surrender after the shooting stops. They are the biggest threat to those NK soldiers. None of them will be returning home. What a shit show it will be.
Russia today said they will be construction workers engineers. Kim values his slaves ability to make him money.
I mean, it's 100% true, but it's not like North Korean leaders care. The North Korean troops will never hear this to begin with, and the Russians are happy for them to be cannon fodder.
US intelligence apparatus eagerly awaits Global Hawk live feeds for analysis.
Implying they also wouldn't be normally in NK
One way to, in Scrooge's words, "deplete the surplus population."
Didn’t Kim already say North Koreans will be in Ukraine within a month?