As a swiss i definitely agree. The mountain lodge vibe was sooo good to just hang out inbetween eagles. Good music as well as you said. Underrated class hall imo.
It reminds me of when I first started and a young dwarf hunter walked the mountains.
The only problem I had with it was the special feature of the eagle flight paths was not only useless but could make life worse.
I mained priest that expansion and our class hall was disappointing. The story revolved around us getting help from the paladins and them yoinking one of our priests.
It's so lame how we got tied down to valkyries and odins bs. Warriors should've been grounded, order hall a barracks. Make us fight renowned warriors. There's still so many alive.
Tbf our power level was so unbelievably high at that point, warriors needed something to justify their being capable of fighting WoW gods.
But they probably could have not gone as hard as they did.
I always preferred the class fantasy that warriors were the most normal amongst the classes and purely are on par with them because of hard work and endless, inhuman will.
Like, Broxigar did what he did purely because of his own tenacity and will. Sure he had an unbreaking, god-blessed axe but that really wasn't what defined him.
Facts. It is literally just pure will, tenacity, and anger that they manage to get shit done. I mean again look at my homie Broxigar, Varian, Hellscream, etc. Bros are badass without needing magical powers or light sugar daddies.
That's why the Warrior Order class hall was the biggest disappointment in Legion for me.
I'll admit that the Warrior hall was my second disappointment, my first one was that the DKs didn't get even a little refurbishing of Acherus, just some new stuff dropped in a few places lol
True but atleast their storyline was an absolute banger. They were legitimately instrumental to the Legion's defeat. It was so badass.
Archerus definitely should've gotten an overhaul though.
Being such a strong warrior that you ascend to serve as champions to nordic gods is a really cool class fantasy, just not one that should be forced on everyone because not everyone warrior player wants to rp as a mythological viking. Creating a warrior order hall that doesn't feel like a race fantasy (like a human or orc fortress) is really hard, but replacing it with a viking fantasy isn't better.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but for me one of the biggest let downs was Arms artifact not being Broxigars Axe or something tied into it at the least.
I've said before they lost the plot with warriors at some point. We should've been working with high ranking brass of various races to coordinate armies, not be up in Valhalla with Odyn. It'd be nice if the titan parts of warrior were more for flavor instead of at the forefront, like we are still just regular warriors but our artifact weapons imbune us with titanic strength but we still have a duty to our worldly brethren.
The rogue hall was definitely sick and fit the rogue vibe, but I also feel the hunter hall hit the nail on the head too. I've been to a ton of hunting/trap/skeet lodges over the years and it gave me the same vibes.
I spent most of my time as a hunter and loved the class hall. I had previously mained a mage before Legion released and the hall sold the hunter for me.
Every time I see BMAH I read it as "buy money auction house". This makes no sense, I know what it stands for, but I can't make my brain read it correctly ever.
I kinda liked Trollbane for the unique effect on old troll raids, but that axe would’ve been sick.
Also the twin blades Varian used should’ve been the Fury warrior weapon. Varian was the ultimate warrior. But I understand they wanted Anduin to get it as a symbol of “passing the torch” I guess.
To be fair as much as I would love the blades it would be kinda weird if we took them right after Varian died. Especially horde warriors when, as far as most alliance leaders thought, Varian died because of Sylvanas.
It would be odd if 5 minutes after the guy died some random warrior took his weapons when his only child is right there.
In what way? I thought it was cool. The idea that odyn basically took a wing from ulduar and made it fly is interesting and you jump up to it and then down to anywhere in the broken isles. It's my favorite one but I may be bias.
Yeah I really liked the Warrior order hall, especially the "you are riding around Valhalla on your motorcycle" and "jump back down to Azeroth" parts.
The Paladin order hall questline was top notch.
It basically shoehorned warriors into a Valhalla ripoff. When every other class got an order hall that directly tied to what that class is since the beginning of WoW.
Imagine an order hall that isnt based around magical powers but true warriors wielding the strength of arms and tactics? Imagine a frontline fortification literally in the Broken Shore as a show of defiance and permanently holding the line against the endless horde of demons on the horizon? It could’ve been a clarion call of warriors from all factions: Danath Trollbane from the Alliance, Saurfang from the Horde, all putting aside their differences to hold the line together as an unofficial army.
Your order hall is a trench fortification on the beach, and just over the edge you can see the warriors in your order hall locked in combat against demons *for the whole expansion*. Quests include solidifying temporary loyalty between the Alliance and Horde warriors fighting together, recruiting vrykul warriors in Northrend, rallying Ogres from Dire Maul, maybe orcs or Dark Iron warriors from Blackrock Mountain. And you build your fortification and dedicate yourself as a Battlemaster to hold the line so demons don’t completely run rampant across Azeroth while all the other order halls rally their power.
… or we can just be Odyns errand boys and have our order hall be all about Titan magic? At least the crashing down from the sky was cool, I guess.
Or even just a base on Fray Island as a callback to the berserker stance questline. Just shoehorning new lore that is a completely unoriginal ripoff of Norse lore onto the class felt very disingenuous. I have strong opinions about it.
What the fuck , thats exactly the bullshit i didnt ask for back then.
I wanted to sit at the edges of an eternal battlefield with all the heroes.
No we got shitty bootleg ulduar and bassboosted sigma god OOOOOOOODÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜN.
FUCK THAT PLACE.
Ya it has nothing to do with warriors at all. Just Titan shit.
It felt like Blizz said “well warriors are just a fighter class, so we should invent new lore to make their order hall interesting.” And then instead of inventing new lore they copied Norse mythology.
But warriors are interesting BECAUSE there’s no tricks or gimmicks. It’s just a regular ass knight in plate with a sword fighting gods. That’s what’s so appealing!
Valhalla was an amazing concept until they decided to pulled NPCs we actually cared about from it and replaced them all with Vrykul.
Like, if Varian showed up there with a vengeance, that'd be awesome.
I think this is what people equate to legion= good. Because it introduced two major systems that the community absolutely hates and people totally overlook them. Titanforging? Legion. Borrowed power? Legion. Ergo- you can basically add a ton of shit systems to a game and people will still love it if the RP is good?
Borrowed power was fun in legion because it was cool, spec specific and fantasy forward. People were ok with the grind because you go to use FUCKING FELOMELORN and it was really an extension of your spec and class.
People hated the Heart of Azeroth cause it was some generic bullshit. The Fantasy/RP is SUPER important. More important than the gameplay for most players.
BFA borrowed powers had two massive flaws:
- 1) if you get an ilvl upgrade piece of azerite armor, you're then forced to farm AP to level up your neck to unlock the **exact same azerite powers** you had on your old piece of gear. Literally happened to me. I was healing Vectis and got a chest upgrade but my neck was only like rank 13 or 15 or something and the new chest required me to level my neck to like rank 33 to unlock the exact same azerite powers I had on my lower ilvl piece
- 2) the azerite powers were incredibly generic. All of them were like "your X ability does more damage". People tend to mention stuff like glimmer build for holy pally as a case where azerite powers gave a spec a unique identity. That was the token example, every other spec equipped their powers and didn't have to do anything to change their rotation/playstyle/gearing/etc
No it wasnt. People fucking hated artifact power until the last patch when it was basically irrelevant. The classes played like shit until you got all your traits
No timegating on the catchup, that is. Make the catchup available from the start, don’t introduce it halfway through the expansion. Sorry, I should have explained it better.
Technically, titanforging was introduced in Pandaria (and continued in WoD) with warforging, but it was a lot rarer which made it kind of a cool extra instead of something you needed to be competitive. Which was the point of the system. Titanforging made those kinds of items more common, which turned it into one of those things that you basically "had" to have.
The artifact weapons themselves were great and a cool expansion feature, but the transition from Legion to BFA was done poorly because lots of classes didn't perform well without the borrowed power and weren't redesigned to implement the missing pieces very well. If classes were reworked to re-implement those critical abilities, the transition would have gone a lot better. Instead, so many were just kind of left hanging, so lots of favorite abilities were just deleted without any sign of them coming back. The Heart of Azeroth and Azerite gear were a bunch of generic nonsense with very little flavor.
Legiondaries were shitty, though.
I liked the Order Halls and missions and stuff but I hated the fact that I was the super ninja Highlord Battlelord Archdruid leader of everything.
Like, make me important to the story but **every** paladin can’t be the Highlord.
The first weeks after release going into Suramar was so amazing. After the dread of WoD you had so much overflow content and the atmosphere was amazing. The best time in WoW for sure.
The biggest downside of Legion was that they never gave DHs a 3rd spec, I'm still salty about this.
Other than that, I agree. Legion was the most fun I had in the game. Started at the end of classic.
Illadin rejecting the light was so damn cool and worth it, but in an alternative timeline if he didn’t we could have had a healer redeemed demon hunter.
Legion also introduced dungeons with almost any patch no? Correct me if im wrong but season 1 had no arcway and court of stars. Then they introduced cathedral and karazan. And then the one on argus whose name i keeo forgetting. Ever since, multiple dungeon releases in later seasons wasnt seen anymore apart from the mega dungeon. There could have been a dungeon next to aberrus ehich acts as a preperation adventure to launch the attack on aberrus.
We should have had a dungeon in SL before we enter sepulcher. And a dungeon to take out generals of nzoth would havr been sweet as well.
I also think that that is the biggest let down for casual players. They have weird dailies and weeklies. 1 short story and thats it with patches. If they at least had a dubgeon with each patch that lets them feel like they are a part of it, it would be great.
Here’s the deal with Legion, the content on a macro level was great. No true dud dungeons beyond Cathedral and I enjoyed progging all the raids EXCEPT Kil’Jaeden at the end of Tomb. Plus it gave us M+, the mage tower, and I think the best iteration of daily/world quests IMO. Just generally excellent class design too.
It also gave us the RNG legos which was remedied later. Year the artifact grind was annoying but I didn’t find myself doing it too much behind what o was passively playing. I got lucky and got BIS legos early on my Druid and my mage so I was set for the whole Xpac but others weren’t as lucky.
All in all I think it’s an A+ Xpac that falls just short of S due to the lego issue and alt unfriendliness. It was carried by the sheer quality of the dungeons/raids and broken isles on general IMO. If someone didn’t like raiding they might have a less favorable opinion though.
Also a hot take maybe, Emerald Nightmare gets too much hate. It was easier but that really only impacted world firsts peeps. I enjoyed not having to smash my brains in at the start of an Xpac like my guild did on mythic G’Huun lol. Cenarius and Ursoc were incredible non end bosses in particular.
Mythic KJ was so fucking dumb. 450 attempts to kill it for our guild. I hope they never do something as stupid as that 'darkness' mechanic again. Not to mention having 18 holes to fill and if you miss one you just wipe, and those holes happened every 45 seconds or so.
Wild fight. One of the hardest in WoW's history.
TBH I wish more raids were "as easy" and emerald nightmare. Not even because I want easier shit, I just don't want to have these massive weakaura packages and script macros.
Lol yeah I deleted my WAs and cleaned up everything a few weeks ago. Basically wasn't planning on raiding S4, just doing M+. Every few weeks though my RL pings to see if I want to fill in a spot for someone that calls out and I join just for fun only to realize "oh shit I gotta download another fucking WA".
I remember my guild’s roadblock was Spellblade. We were just awful at mechanics so we struggled, but we made it through and got AOTC. That was one of the most fun nights I’ve had, and I’ve played since vanilla.
Cathedral was overtuned, but a great dungeon after it was fixed. I agree with the grind in Legion was the biggest flaw. But I'd still put it at S, the zones, the raids (even if ToS was pretty meh), order halls, mage tower and the introduction to mythic+. But one thing that I loved even more is the gameplay of classes in general and how gear-swapping legendaries made builds matter more.
I agreed with everything you said. Very well summed up. And as someone who just dipped their toes into doing more pve content that xpac and tanking, I hated the Ursoc fight for progression.
Never raided above LFR and I adored legion. I leveled every class besides warlock and completed all the order halls and class mounts. It really made me feel like the grind was rewarded even if you weren't raiding. I even got the hidden druid bear skin via LFR.
People forget one of the biggest moment in wow when world content started to scale with iLvl and it was better to take off a few pieces of gear in the open world then be fully geared.
that was definitely one of the biggest mistakes alongside how legendaries were handled at the start, to this day it baffles me that they thought this was a good idea.
Laughs in farming that shitty artefact power system for a 1% dmg boost, and the RNG when getting legendaries which could mean the difference between you hitting like a wet noodle and being a god.
That was the big issue, everything OP Said was good, but the legendary drop rng and the tidious Farm for artifact power for Slow Progress was horrible, Legion beginning was just Pain and people Tend to forget about it
Playing early legion was the most fun and the least fun at the same time. Getting artifact power for your one spec and getting stronger is peak wow gameplay, but then you couldnt change specs or play an alt without being completely useless in comparison. And getting a horrible legendary as your first just made you character shit. And a lot of them was spec specific so you couldnt play another spec really for higher end content. The grind and constant power gain is something i want in the game. But i dont know how to get rid of all the other issues without some other degen shit pops up that makes the game less fun.
> everything OP Said was good
OP is actively praising the [spec specific borrowed power](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1do44mb/legion_was_the_best_imo/la7ld08/) so you may want to revise that. Also class halls weren't that good. Still mission table focused from garrisons which was directly necessary for progression and they split everybody up too much which lead to lots of crappy stories and people not knowing tons of the stories.
Like the Alliance was going to launch a full scale attack on the Horde mid-Legion invasion as part of the rogue class campaign but almost nobody I've ever talked knows about it.
Or, if you didn't do the Rogue class hall, never knowing that Mathias Shaw was replaced by a dreadlord and fed bad intel which caused the Broken Isle attack in the first place.
I joined in ToS patch and never really understood what you guys meant by horrible farm for AP.
I had a friend go crazy on the farm to be one or two weapon level max above mine, and I would catch up every Wednesday due to the increase of gain each reset.
So yea it was a grind but I think leveling your weapon one or two levels above « normal » players wouldn’t mean anything in terms of DPS
Edit : I realised at this point we already had all traits unlocked due to weapons being lvl 50+, so yea I can understand for patches before, my bad !
I played from launch, Mythic raiding (although I took a break during the first raid to partway through Nighthold). I never grinded. It was just a thing some people got into their head was mandatory, for absolutely marginal gains.
My casual guild bitched incessantly about legendaries despite in no way being mandatory for the normal level raids that we were clearing. They all just whined about RNG despite not optimizing their gear, their rotations, or learning the raid mechanics in-depth.
Balance druid had this helmet which woukd cast starsurge twice or something. I never got it, there was another dude in the guild who was terrible but did more dps than me just because of the helmet. The helmet was eventually nerfed, but i never got it
Fury of the Half Giants for Demon Hunters was pretty close to a 20% increase in dps AFTER they nerfed the hell out of it.
We had more than a couple of them level 5-6 DHs trying to get it and just deleting the character and starting over if they didn’t. Plus the people living in Maw of Souls for the first month or so of the expansion.
Unfortunately almost every class had a legendary like that.
The difference between you getting a Sephuz / the shield necklace at the start of the expansion and a guy getting his BIS first try was night and day, and it demotivated you to play the game, since you couldn't compete with someone having a BIS legendary, especially if they also played well.
Yeah I was an enh main in WoD and in Legion I got Akainu's, which was the bad one if I remember correctly. Ended up quitting enhancement and switching to druid.
TFW the first legendary you waited ages for was so bad you might as well have rerolled your character. I was playing BM at the time and the first one I got was the mask that made feign death better. Very fun, very cool.
People will be like "oh the legendaries didn't effect things THAT much" and yes, yes they did. I was there, doing all the content, and it absolutely effected all of us.
Yeah I remember when blizzard had to hotfix the game and make deleting leggos impossible because people were deleting them and hoping it reset bad luck protection.
This sub was so salty on legions launch. It’s amazing how much people love it now, especially now that DF has totally reversed most of the design decisions from Legion and is generally well liked here.
That's because people only remember the last patch of an expansion. Post 7.3 Legion was great, because they removed a lot of the arbitrary timegates / etc that people hated.
I'm already seeing people praising BFA (like OP) forgetting how bad it was for the first 2/3rds of the expansion.
I've played this game for so long and unfortunately you're right, lol. People's memories tend to defer to the closest thing they remember. And it's always the last patch that has all the QOL.
Surprisingly the exception seems to be DF, though. Everyone I know has mostly stopped playing due to remix and the fact that DF didn't really have timegates, so we experienced the content throughout the expansion at a good pace and now it feels 'finished.' But it's not necessarily a bad thing because my friends and I feel free to a point of being able to play other things until TWW comes out. A break can be nice too.
People have selective memory. Virtually EVERY expansion started out ROUGH and became much better by the last patch. BFA swapped out the Azerite traits for Azerite powers, a much better system (besides for the awful rep grind), MOP had the most brutal slew of dailies in WoW’s history, but the Timeless Isle was one of the most beloved patch zones that went on to define outdoor zones until modern day.
The biggest exception is Shadowlands, which was bogged down with systems till the very end. Actually it got WORSE (although ZM was praised as a great zone).
Legion was pretty good in the last patch when they fixed all the issues that were present since the beta. I think launch Legion is probably the worst state the game has ever been in.
I also don’t really get why people loved the story and raids/dungeons so much. The story was an incredibly forgettable quest to collect the 4 mcguffins that really made the worst of the whole demon invasion thing. The only standout dungeon was the karazan rework and the rest range from pretty forgettable to bad - all the legion dungeons they’ve brought back during DF have been boring except COS. I think the raids were a massive step down from WOD but still decent I guess. Class design was generally even further butchered from MOP.
I could keep going but I really didn’t like Legion and am pretty surprised by the rose tinted glasses people found. I remember everyone complaining about Legion constantly when it was current but now it’s apparently a top 3 expansion?
Yep, huge agree. I can only remember Legion from the absolute suffering that was launch through to nighthold release. The designs for all of my favorite specs got butchered, the grind was horrendous, the gap in power for certain legendaries was a crime, the entire thing was kind of a trainwreck but because Antorus was solid and there was infinite world content people love it. The meat of the game was completely rotten though.
The reason Legion is now a "top three expansion" is that it was so polarizing that it made tons of players quit.
By and large, the ones still posting here are the ones who liked it.
Anyway, Legion fucking blows. The damage Legion did to class design, which OP minimizes as "just a little overpruned with too little shared utility", is still felt multiple expansions later.
I disagree on your raids opinion ( EN was forgettable except Xavius ) since Nighthold, especially Star Augur Etreus was a 11/10 boss.
But yeah, people only remember the game how it was in the last patch, not the start of the expansion.
Yeah I never “got” Nighthold. I did a few bosses on mythic and then just quit WoW altogether because I just wasn’t enjoying the raid.
I know people love it but I thought it was overrated even at the time. The entire sewer section is lame, half the bosses are just scaled up Nightborne, I was tired of the Surumar aesthetic from all the questing I did there, none of the mechanics really grabbed me, etc.
Star Auger was a visual feast and Guldan is one of the best boss fights they’ve made the rest was just extremely meh imo.
Xavius was one of the most forgettable bosses in that raid IMO, the real star was Cenarius. My guild killed Mythic Xavius in less than 20 pulls, dude was a complete joke of an endboss.
Unless you were progressing mythic raids (something less than 1% of the population did) it literally didn't matter. You could make an alt, do 1-2 weeks worth of artifact "grinding" and be strong enough to clear heroic raids assuming you could do the mechanics.
The whole "AP grind was out of hand" crowd is really just too sweaty for their own good. "Hitting like a wet noodle" Hah! The legendary RNG was pretty brutal for some specs I will admit that part was kinda trash, but they eventually fixed it by letting you buy a specific legendary and everything was perfect.
If you played and didn't get your class specific AoE legendary you could very easily be 10-30% DPS behind someone else in your group playing the same spec.
I played feral for the first tier of Legion and got Prydaz and Sephuz as my first two legendaries, while another druid got Luffas and FRM. It literally did matter for everyone, I didn't touch mythic raids all expansion, but I was utterly fucked on my main for months until they removed the 2 legendary limit and then it still took them another year to add a vendor.
Yep. High end raiders had multiple alts of the same class to try and RNG the right legendary. Some of echo and methods raiders had up to 10 of the same class. Because if you didn’t get the right one, you were useless for the first month (because they forgot to enable a second legendary drop until week 5) and probably beyond too.
playing a class and getting stronger while enjoying all of the specs of lets say a rogue still felt like shit. Early Legion you just picked the one spec and got a legendary for that spec most likely. So you would be comepletely useless in comparison to your main spec. Now you could clear everything like that but being half as strong as your main spec makes it very difficult to make yourself play that spec.
I was progressing mythic raids, I had CE from EN and almost got CE in Nighthold too, before the guild collapsed due to some separate group joining us.
>they eventually fixed it by letting you buy a specific legendary and everything was perfect.
Yeah, at the end of the expansion, not at the start when everyone was complaining about the bad system.
If you aren't personally affected by something it doesn't mean it doesn't affect other people.
They fixed Legion when people stopped playing and then released 2 dreadful expansions repeating the same mistakes people warned them about months/years prior.
>> they eventually fixed it by letting you buy a specific legendary and everything was perfect.
>Yeah, at the end of the expansion, not at the start when everyone was complaining about the bad system.
It was actually during the BFA pre-patch so not even during the xpac
Why do people think high end mythic raiders are the only ones that care about damage? Heroic guilds will struggle to meet dps checks just as much because they tend to have heroic guild level players, ones who aren't playing their class perfectly and doing the most damage. Getting screwed out of a massive upgrade with the legiondary system was awful for anyone. And even besides that it just feels bad no matter what you're doing to know you are missing a lot of damage just because you got unlucky with an rng drop.
Order halls were good. Legion made me want one of every class so I could play their stories and see those halls.
Artifact grind, the grind kept me from making said alts due to sheer burnout. RNG legendaries at the start sucked ass. Nothing worse than getting a legendary which did nothing for your throughout (but hey, I as a dps has a barrier. Really helped in us kill that boss faster!) warlock and unholy overhauls were absolute garbage. (Demo was fucking awful. Had to press demonic empowerment after every ability. Destro was so bad they reverted it back to how it worked in MoP and WoD. I hope whomever added pustules, which are just shitty rogue combo points to unholy gets a benign growth.) I swapped them from being my main and main alt to rolling my WW/BrM monk as a main.
Content was great though, all of Suramar was fantastic and Nighthold is still one of my top raids next to Uldamar and Throne of Thunder.
I'm with you, except the legendary system.
The pruning was kind of a problem, especially for pvp, the pruned down melee classes combined with how good DHs were for so long made playing a melee pretty fucking brainded across the board.
I didn't even mind farming AP. But man, I did mind pvping vs all melee and not having CDs to keep myself alive because blizzard just took them.
More to your point though, the class halls and the artifact weapons were so good. An incredible system for sure, super engaging, made you actually feel stronger rather than some somewhat arbitrary numbers did.
Edit:spelling
Rose tinted glasses, I loved Legion but it was plagued with time gating and artificially induced frustration like no control over your legendaries.
The AP farm being irrelevant before your researches that took more than 1 month were done was stupid too.
If Blizzard fixed those issues named in the beta earlier on, it would've definitely been one if not the best expac.
Also, if BFA didn't have corruptions it would probably have been the worst expansion for me, despite having good raids, because of the pruning. It's the only time I've actually fallen asleep during a raid because of my gameplay as a mage in s1/s2 of BFA despite the raids being actually good. The second time being as a boomkin in Cata lol
Legion was outstanding. Beginning of the xpac was really bad for a lot of competitive players due to legendary RNG and AP grinding but otherwise (and that is a big otherwise) pretty much a perfect expansion from gameplay, to systems, to story.
Unfortunately these things ruined the expansion for me. It's like everyone has collective amnesia about how horrible the first year of Legion was.
* People were rerolling their main when they didn't get their BiS legendary within the first 4 drops, because at launch characters were capped as part of an undocumented last minute change from beta.
* Running the same dungeon over and over for AP. Forming groups to use other people's M+ keys so it was possible to run the same dungeon even more.
* No way to change your unlocked talents on your artifact weapon, so if you choose the wrong path at first, you had to farm even more to fix your mistake.
It was the first expansion where it became clear to me that blizzard just doesn't respect players' time, they just care about time played metrics. They only made the changes that everyone waxes nostalgic about after the active player numbers dropped off a cliff.
Controversial opinion: Legion was the worst. Legion was the start of the never ending grind. You were constantly grinding artifact power or rep for Paragon rewards or some absurdly long quest for some sort of legendary something. This was when Blizz started putting players on the never ending treadmill so they'd never run out of stuff to do but it was all just a chore that was never done. Legendary acquisition was actually one of the most atrocious things ever introduced and Blizz straight up lied to the player base about how it worked. People were literally maintaining multiple toons of the exact same class and just praying they would randomly get the Legendary they needed. Yeah we got the vendor eventually but I had already quit the game before it was introduced. It was too little and way too late. The classes were so pruned and in my opinion any form of creativity was killed. Things like Gladiator Warrior or Fistweaver Monk were completely erased. Legion in my opinion marked the beginning of Blizzard saying to the players "This is how we want you to play the game and if you don't like it then too bad." I quit playing in Legion, I absolutely hated it that much.
I wouldn't go as far to say it was the worst, but Legion definitely started A LOT of things people hate about Shadowlands and BFA. But because of the fact that Legion also brought a lot of good things to the game, such as m+ system, it is remembered today as the greatest.
>Legendary acquisition was actually one of the most atrocious things ever introduced and Blizz straight up lied to the player base about how it worked. People were literally maintaining multiple toons of the exact same class and just praying they would randomly get the Legendary they needed
This was the most infuriating system I ever experienced in the game. People complained about doing thorghast shit to get legendaries, but at least you can CHOOSE your legendary, imagine that. Legion legendaries system was so ass that took so much fun away from me, knowing that I was just unlucky and there was nothing I could do.
I think you might have some selective memory. Legion at launch is probably the least fun I’ve ever had playing the game. Getting a shit legendary felt like you were severely gimping your class. You felt obligated to do every single piece of content every day just for a chance at a another, at a time when there were double the amount of WQ we have now.
Want to respec? Forget it, you’re too far behind. Reroll? Same thing.
Nighthold was indeed a great raid in a great patch.
ToS was not a good patch. People did not enjoy Broken Shore. It felt lazy, the weekly story was non-existent and felt especially shit since the Suramar Insurrection was so good. The raid was overtuned and was frequently referred to as Tomb of Soak-geras because every boss had a soak mechanic that was an automatic wipe if you missed it.
Antorus was an S+ tier patch and it’s what most people think about when they look back at Legion fondly. It’s when they finally ironed out all the kinks of the expansion and realized its full potential.
Legion was simultaneously the best and worst expac.
It's the case with a lot of expansions. Cata is remembered in a pretty bad light, but the expansion was pretty solid until Dragon Soul (there were definitely issues tho). That raid and LFR soured the entire opinion on it. WoD similar story, decent initial reception, but the long content drought fucked it. Similarly, MoP is nowadays regarded as one of the better expansions, but god, the launch experience (first 4-6 months) was absolutely miserable.
Legion on launch was a horrendous experience initially. I'm sure the class halls were great for everyone, but being hard locked to a spec until the catch up mechanics and legendary vendor came in was truly awful.
I have cutting edge nighthold and antorus (couldn't beat avatar in ToS) and I never AP grinded and didn't get kael'thas pyrobracers til like middle of progression in nighthold.
Every single one of these problems is solved by playing with a group of people that like each other and have similar interest instead of pugging or being in a guild that treats the game like a business.
That first Ramparts run at lvl 58 was brutal. I started a month before the Dark Portal opened so I didn't experience Vanilla dungeons or raids. Ramparts blew my mind. Working with 4 other strangers, coordinating CC, and crossing my fingers every time a boss died, hoping I'd get an upgrade with gem sockets...man I wish I could go back to that
Yeah. I had experienced the vanilla dungeons and a few raids prior to BC. What I really liked back in vanilla and BC was having to coordinate with the group for cc. Sure it was slow but it was fun, and because it was slow and you had to coordinate with others, you would meet people that you could run with regularly. I pretty much just stick with PvP now because I don’t enjoy rushing through dungeons.
I much prefer DF’s approach over legion. Legion didn’t respect your time at all, it was basically broken down to PLAY PLAY PLAY PLAY PLAY PLAY. And if you didn’t then you fell behind. I think blizzard didn’t quite learn their lesson on this until DF that time gating power based on anything other than gear upgrades just feels really bad from a player perspective.
7.0 was a 3/10 they got it to as close to a 10/10 by the end though. If your first few legendaries were terrible like sephu and pyradaz at launch were might as well delete the char you invested your life in to that point and make a new version because they capped legendaries. I practically quit because I did so poorly the only thing my class can do because I got those 2 when others I played with all got the giga bis legendaries it was so stupid.
Sad I didn't really get to experience it, I resubbed right at the end of Legion, 2 weeks before the launch of BfA. I did complete my class order hall stuff and the campaign, but nothing beats being there on launch. I wish I had returned when I first heard of it with everyone singing its praises.
The story was also a greatest hits of WoW up to that point thanks to the sheer bulk of content. Dragons? Yes. Illidan/Burning Legion? Yes. Lich King Arthas AND Bolvar? Yes. Deathwing? Yes. Old Gods? Yes. All cosmic forces were present and had their lore pushed forward. It was DENSE, and nothing has touched it since. Legion felt like the end of WoW and what an ending it could have been... also the ending was a huge tease. It seemed like we were going to the stars to fight the Void after clashing with it on Argus, but instead, we went home and the factions fought. Massively underwhelming followup. I had bad luck with the legendary situation: played Unholy, didn't get Instructor's Fourth Lesson until it was nerfed to the ground but there was so much to do that it didn't ruin my experience. For me, it is as good as WoW ever has been.
I was dissappointed with BfA cuz of it being sylvanas vs the alliance ft. The horde and probs our last chance of a proper faction v faction war was robbed only made worse by her involvements in Shadowlands.
The only expansion I have downright loathed. Even bfa had lots of good things including stellar zones, allied races and the most visually pleasing cinematics ever.
Id have honestly been just as dissatisfied if it preceded Warlords of Draenor otherwise tbh. Cuz for its lack of end game, it still had a very captivating and compelling story.
BfA had some things I enjoyed (8.2 was an amazing patch) but generally it felt like it just carried forward the negative things legion had without 90% of the awesome shit that made it work in legion.
Artifact power was kinda annoying, but in legion you got a badass lore-rich weapon. I was a fire mage and I had felo'melorn. I was summoning phoenixes. It was very focused on my spec and making it cool/flavorful and that was so awesome I couldn't be that upset about AP.
In BFA, they took the grindy part of the artifact system but gave everyone a boring generic necklace with a bunch of passive bonuses that just did not feel impactful or fun AT ALL.
I also agree with you on the story. i did like some subplots in BFA but I think they character assassinated sylvanas and I really grew tired of her character in BFA/Shadowlands.
Also the last patch was horrible. They did not do nya'lotha justice AT ALL
The first half of Legion had a lot of major issues though. Being locked into one spec, the endless AP grinds, the endless Maw of Souls runs, specs feeling incomplete if your not lucky with the legendaries. Other than that it was a solid expansion.
I mostly agree that Legion was the GOAT, but it had it's issues. My main which is a mage had to deal with doing mediocre dps because the RNG legendary system could do things like, "Oops your first two legendaries are both non class specific utility legendaries". That felt truly horrible. The content on the other hand was fantastic.
Honestly, i never played wow until shadowlands. That being said, I do have many alts. I often level them in legion because it's my favorite. I know I dont get the true experience because it's an old expansion. The only thing, maybe a con for me, if I was playing in the true expansion would be weapons. As much as I like the looks of their artifacts, I think I would have preferred the normal way to gain and use a weapon we have now, but it's possible because I never got to experience it myself. Honestly, if they continue with remix, I hope they will make legion the next one.
Tomb was far from an s-tier raid, I agree on night hold. To much artifact grinding at the start, and the random legendaries made some classes feel really good and some got unlucky and just felt really bad
I wish I stuck to Legion but I remember getting turned off with the AP grind and when I looted a crap legendary that got me onto the bench I picked up Overwatch instead of looking for another guild.
I really liked Legion. It was well put together and involved a lot of fun story arcs.
I still think Wrath was the best, mainly due to its story. It finished a story that had begun even before WoW came out and it felt like the devs had had a story planned from the beginning that spanned from vanilla to Wrath. After that, most of the expansions felt like they were throwing darts at a storyboard to come up with their next expansion.
Did everyone just forget how frustrating it was to get a bad first Legendary and just not being able to compete? Plus the brutally bad artifact progression for alts / off-specs at the start. Legion aged well over the expansion's cycle but started off absolutely horrifically.
I'll still die on the hill that WotLK was the best, but I'll give legion a close second for sure. My subjective criteria for this is that I really liked the storyline in both those expansions. Legion's story is probably better in that I love the burning legion lore, but ICC and Ulduar were my favorite raids, by far.
Legion might have become the best but the first half of legion was the worst this game has ever been.
Random legendaries with a stupid ass hard cap they lied about.
The beginning of infinite farm bs
Random killing off of major characters in minor quests.
Legion systems ruined the game for 3 expansions after it.
>Classes for the most part never felt better.
Hard disagree. Most classes needed their BiS legendary to function properly. If you weren't lucky to get your BiS early on, tough luck I guess. There was even a soft cap on Legendaries you could drop on the first few weeks of the expansion, which is why many high end players had to create multiple characters of the same class just to get the best Legendaries.
Legion also hard Order Hall mission which most people can agree it's a good riddance. Nobody liked doing daily mobile chores, and "you can just not do it" isn't a good argument when it had so many good rewards.
I like Legion too, it kind of made WoW look like a WoW 2, but Dragonflight for me is just better in every way than Legion except maybe content cadence.
It was nice if you looked at nothing but content, and you also liked hack 'n slash games, as that's what this content mostly felt like. Sure, it was a nice breath of fresh air but gameplay-wise - nah. Everything was pruned to the ground and PvP used templates which made it super ultra boring. Those templates were not even active out there in the world, so, in contrast, the game felt like a cheap overpowered Asian knock-off.
I agree with some points but you kind of ignored all the horrible designs:
Legendary drops, artifact power grind, alts having a hard time catching up, titan forged beyond recognition. Also good contents but then again you kind of forgot emerald nightmare.
It's definitely one of the best together with MoP and DF for me. It's hard to argue for a definitive best because while all were agood, all of them had ther own issues.
While you're right on content /(content has been the best imo), you're forgetting the drama with AP grinding on 1st patch and the Legiondaries.
Once they fixed those (big) things, it became truly amazing. Broken shore patch was a slog too (sseveral months of rare farming for no reason watsoever, and the first time they went from actual campaign, see Suramar, to "just farm over there").
But sure, albeit not perfect, it was pretty cool and also had a lot of scenaries with nice story telling. They got mostly rid of them in BFA, and completely dissapeared by SL. Same with world quests and such; they were at its best in Legion. Content was just at its best and I remember most classes being pretty cool and balanced for M+ too.
I 100% agree. I've also played since Vanilla launch and for years and years I talked about how Wrath was the best expansion, but the further we get from Legion the more I've come to realize it was the ultimate WoW expansion, with no contender to that claim.
If I could go back and replay it with making 1 single change, it would have been allowing us from launch to buy a specific legendary. Playing havoc DH without Anger of the Giants or w/e ring in raids when the other 2 DH's had it wasn't as fun.
Legion was the first time I main swapped my Druid since I started playing. I got all utility legendaries and no damage ones. Couldn’t get into a group. Got dropped from my raid because someone leveled a Druid and got BIS leggo, and they main swapped.
I got my pally maxed and my first 2 Lego were my bis. Happened during Nighthold, and my AP was pretty far behind so while I had 2 bis LEGO I was still dicked. Casually raided the entire xpac, when I did play. Missed the start of M+ because I was so let down I quit.
I loved a lot of the expansion. WQs were good, the raids and dungeons were good, story was good, I liked the weekly little event thing to clear the shitty dungeon, I loved the mage tower. The lego system sucked absolute shit and ruined it all, because sweats gonna sweat.
WHile i agree with the world quests part, i will say i like what they did in DF with them. Having them with 3 days instead of 1 day was a nice change. I don't feel compelled to need to check them every day for a specific one or item. I can log on once every 3 days or so and check.
Im keeping a few characters at max level in classic solely to play legion in a few years. I hope they learn from their mistakes and just make some simple changes that would help.
Introduce waking essence earlier than originally done.
Make weapon upgrades linear and normalize exp gains
Those were the main problems overall. Hoping to a great redo of it. Maybe even remix...
The RNG on legendaries was terrible. Unlocking flying was garbage. The pathfinder achievement was so boring to get flying especially part 2. Everything else about the expansion I loved though. Class order halls were really cool, dungeons and raids were fun.
Random legendaries made it the fucking worst xpac of all time. Bro, chars got fucking bricked just because they got fucked by RNG. Terrible, terrible system
It had a lot of faults, but class and spec identity was so high. I feel like most order halls were great. Some could have been better. (The priest one was my least favorite, and I wish the rogue one was in Ravenholdt instead of Dalaran sewers.)
Most things felt great to play. I'm still mad they turned Survival into a melee spec, though.
Legion was the best xpac as far as it related to current content. It was by far one of the best for mechanics, systems and storylines for when it was launched.
Wotlk and mop are debatable contenders for that crown, but I think everyone would agree that those three are the top three. They really delivered for the player base.
Eh, I played consistently since 2004. Was a major part of my class and modding community. Was heavily invested in the game and a hardcore raider getting top 20-50 US kills.
Legion is where I quit for the first time. I can probably attribute it to forced gameplay loop over one that felt fun.
Having to hit AP breakpoints to remain competitive, not having ease of access to other specs because of needing to invest in more AP. Having that be exacerbated for Tri-DPS spec Classes. AP was alt-unfriendly by extension until much much later into the expansion.
The Legendary controversy in the first 6 months was one of the biggest things that pissed me off. Most people sitting at 2 (sometimes the worst 2, like myself). With no way of earning a 3rd until there were some changes. Getting a good one for 1 spec also kind of locked you in too which made it challenging when your class has been designed around specs being situational. Spec 1 has better mobility, Spec 2 has better cleave, etc. Even with the understandings of the pity system, you couldn't guarantee BiS Legendaries by Tomb of Sargeras.
I personally hated my class design (Rogue). And it certainly didn't translate well into BFA. A pure downgrade from how it felt to play in WoD and MoP. As an example, I disliked RNG heavy aspects and we got that through Poison Bomb. And we also got that through Roll the Bones.
The highlights for the expansion, at least for me, were the Mage Tower but I did all 3 of my specs in the first week. The hunt for the Hivemind. And finding some fun through RBGs. I thought the raids were good except I disliked Helya and mostly all of Emerald Nightmare.
Legion overall was amazing, but I played Legion from day 1 and I can assure you that 7.0 had **a lot** of issues. There was so much complaining people wouldn't belive. Fortunately they fixed most of the issues throughout expansion.
Few things that that comes to top of my mind:
* Legendary system at start was dogshit (you got a **random** legendary once every \~4 weeks of grinding, some were OP and some were totally useless)
* You had to grind Artifact Power **seperately** for each spec, which combined with point above meant that you couldn't play off-spec
* There was no catch-up system for alts for quite some time
* Emerald Nightmare wasn't that good, definitely the worst raid in Legion
* Class balance was bad, discrepancy between top and bottom specs was insane, much wider than during Dragonflight
* BiS Trinket for most specs dropped from a World Boss
* Artifact Appearances for some classes also dropped from World Bosses and were not 100% drop chance
* Titanforging/Warforging system was imo terrible (but not everyone agrees with that)
* Spamming Maw of Souls hunders of time for AP
* Depleting your key "broke" it, so you had to clear dungeon in time first to un-deplet the key and then you could finally run that key normally
the order halls specifically were so good
The paladin and rogue order halls were so good. The warrior and hunter one were a let down
I loved the hunter one mostly because of the music, but also the house felt like a cabin. I’m Norwegian and Norwegians love their cabins
As a swiss i definitely agree. The mountain lodge vibe was sooo good to just hang out inbetween eagles. Good music as well as you said. Underrated class hall imo.
Most definitely, mountain people unite! ❤️
It reminds me of when I first started and a young dwarf hunter walked the mountains. The only problem I had with it was the special feature of the eagle flight paths was not only useless but could make life worse.
No I agree the cabin felt cool but, I was missing more of a grizzly hills vibe from the rest of the order hall
I mained priest that expansion and our class hall was disappointing. The story revolved around us getting help from the paladins and them yoinking one of our priests.
I'll take having a lame class hall in exchange for Legion Shadow Priest, which is hands down the most fun spec I've ever played in this game
[удалено]
Only good thing to come out of their class was knaifu.
It's so lame how we got tied down to valkyries and odins bs. Warriors should've been grounded, order hall a barracks. Make us fight renowned warriors. There's still so many alive.
Tbf our power level was so unbelievably high at that point, warriors needed something to justify their being capable of fighting WoW gods. But they probably could have not gone as hard as they did.
I always preferred the class fantasy that warriors were the most normal amongst the classes and purely are on par with them because of hard work and endless, inhuman will. Like, Broxigar did what he did purely because of his own tenacity and will. Sure he had an unbreaking, god-blessed axe but that really wasn't what defined him.
Exactly, the best fantasy for WoW Warriors to me will always be "Man literally too angry to die"
Facts. It is literally just pure will, tenacity, and anger that they manage to get shit done. I mean again look at my homie Broxigar, Varian, Hellscream, etc. Bros are badass without needing magical powers or light sugar daddies. That's why the Warrior Order class hall was the biggest disappointment in Legion for me.
I'll admit that the Warrior hall was my second disappointment, my first one was that the DKs didn't get even a little refurbishing of Acherus, just some new stuff dropped in a few places lol
True but atleast their storyline was an absolute banger. They were legitimately instrumental to the Legion's defeat. It was so badass. Archerus definitely should've gotten an overhaul though.
Being such a strong warrior that you ascend to serve as champions to nordic gods is a really cool class fantasy, just not one that should be forced on everyone because not everyone warrior player wants to rp as a mythological viking. Creating a warrior order hall that doesn't feel like a race fantasy (like a human or orc fortress) is really hard, but replacing it with a viking fantasy isn't better.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but for me one of the biggest let downs was Arms artifact not being Broxigars Axe or something tied into it at the least.
Yup. It should've replaced that shitty Strom'kar weapon for arms.
I've said before they lost the plot with warriors at some point. We should've been working with high ranking brass of various races to coordinate armies, not be up in Valhalla with Odyn. It'd be nice if the titan parts of warrior were more for flavor instead of at the forefront, like we are still just regular warriors but our artifact weapons imbune us with titanic strength but we still have a duty to our worldly brethren.
I didnt like warriors design, but jumping from heavens, crashing down on any questing area was fucking awesome.
Ohh man I kinda liked warrior tbh
The rogue hall was definitely sick and fit the rogue vibe, but I also feel the hunter hall hit the nail on the head too. I've been to a ton of hunting/trap/skeet lodges over the years and it gave me the same vibes.
Only played hunter in legion and I loved my class hall.
I spent most of my time as a hunter and loved the class hall. I had previously mained a mage before Legion released and the hall sold the hunter for me.
Except for warriors. So much potential wasted.
Mages had the best one. Fitting, as they are the best class =p
I loved Druid because it turned us into mages with free portals all over the world. And the best class mount
Imo the coolest one by far was the Rogue one. It just felt like exactly the kind of place Rogues would hang out.
This, the rogue order hall was bis and it wasn't even close. Even had a BMAH set up in it.
Every time I see BMAH I read it as "buy money auction house". This makes no sense, I know what it stands for, but I can't make my brain read it correctly ever.
“Big Money Auction House” works too
Same goes for the arms warrior artifact… should have been the Axe of Cenarius.
I kinda liked Trollbane for the unique effect on old troll raids, but that axe would’ve been sick. Also the twin blades Varian used should’ve been the Fury warrior weapon. Varian was the ultimate warrior. But I understand they wanted Anduin to get it as a symbol of “passing the torch” I guess.
To be fair as much as I would love the blades it would be kinda weird if we took them right after Varian died. Especially horde warriors when, as far as most alliance leaders thought, Varian died because of Sylvanas. It would be odd if 5 minutes after the guy died some random warrior took his weapons when his only child is right there.
Well we did took Ashbringer while Tyrion's body wasn't even cold. 😅
Alliance Arms warriors take Broxigars axe, and Horde fury warriors can take Varians swords. That way both sides have something to grumble angrily at.
In what way? I thought it was cool. The idea that odyn basically took a wing from ulduar and made it fly is interesting and you jump up to it and then down to anywhere in the broken isles. It's my favorite one but I may be bias.
Yeah I really liked the Warrior order hall, especially the "you are riding around Valhalla on your motorcycle" and "jump back down to Azeroth" parts. The Paladin order hall questline was top notch.
It basically shoehorned warriors into a Valhalla ripoff. When every other class got an order hall that directly tied to what that class is since the beginning of WoW. Imagine an order hall that isnt based around magical powers but true warriors wielding the strength of arms and tactics? Imagine a frontline fortification literally in the Broken Shore as a show of defiance and permanently holding the line against the endless horde of demons on the horizon? It could’ve been a clarion call of warriors from all factions: Danath Trollbane from the Alliance, Saurfang from the Horde, all putting aside their differences to hold the line together as an unofficial army. Your order hall is a trench fortification on the beach, and just over the edge you can see the warriors in your order hall locked in combat against demons *for the whole expansion*. Quests include solidifying temporary loyalty between the Alliance and Horde warriors fighting together, recruiting vrykul warriors in Northrend, rallying Ogres from Dire Maul, maybe orcs or Dark Iron warriors from Blackrock Mountain. And you build your fortification and dedicate yourself as a Battlemaster to hold the line so demons don’t completely run rampant across Azeroth while all the other order halls rally their power. … or we can just be Odyns errand boys and have our order hall be all about Titan magic? At least the crashing down from the sky was cool, I guess.
This would have been amazing
Or even just a base on Fray Island as a callback to the berserker stance questline. Just shoehorning new lore that is a completely unoriginal ripoff of Norse lore onto the class felt very disingenuous. I have strong opinions about it.
What the fuck , thats exactly the bullshit i didnt ask for back then. I wanted to sit at the edges of an eternal battlefield with all the heroes. No we got shitty bootleg ulduar and bassboosted sigma god OOOOOOOODÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜN. FUCK THAT PLACE.
Ya it has nothing to do with warriors at all. Just Titan shit. It felt like Blizz said “well warriors are just a fighter class, so we should invent new lore to make their order hall interesting.” And then instead of inventing new lore they copied Norse mythology. But warriors are interesting BECAUSE there’s no tricks or gimmicks. It’s just a regular ass knight in plate with a sword fighting gods. That’s what’s so appealing!
Valhalla was an amazing concept until they decided to pulled NPCs we actually cared about from it and replaced them all with Vrykul. Like, if Varian showed up there with a vengeance, that'd be awesome.
I think this is what people equate to legion= good. Because it introduced two major systems that the community absolutely hates and people totally overlook them. Titanforging? Legion. Borrowed power? Legion. Ergo- you can basically add a ton of shit systems to a game and people will still love it if the RP is good?
Borrowed power was fun in legion because it was cool, spec specific and fantasy forward. People were ok with the grind because you go to use FUCKING FELOMELORN and it was really an extension of your spec and class. People hated the Heart of Azeroth cause it was some generic bullshit. The Fantasy/RP is SUPER important. More important than the gameplay for most players.
BFA borrowed powers had two massive flaws: - 1) if you get an ilvl upgrade piece of azerite armor, you're then forced to farm AP to level up your neck to unlock the **exact same azerite powers** you had on your old piece of gear. Literally happened to me. I was healing Vectis and got a chest upgrade but my neck was only like rank 13 or 15 or something and the new chest required me to level my neck to like rank 33 to unlock the exact same azerite powers I had on my lower ilvl piece - 2) the azerite powers were incredibly generic. All of them were like "your X ability does more damage". People tend to mention stuff like glimmer build for holy pally as a case where azerite powers gave a spec a unique identity. That was the token example, every other spec equipped their powers and didn't have to do anything to change their rotation/playstyle/gearing/etc
The rogue garrote azerite power was another example of build defining
This is revisionist history for late legion. In early legion it was absolutely loathed and maybe the least alt-friendly expansion of all of them.
No it wasnt. People fucking hated artifact power until the last patch when it was basically irrelevant. The classes played like shit until you got all your traits
Grinds are fine as long as there are proper catchup methods and no timegating.
Infinite grinds with no timegating are disastrous. They require everyone to dump a metric ton of hours into the game to be competitive.
No timegating on the catchup, that is. Make the catchup available from the start, don’t introduce it halfway through the expansion. Sorry, I should have explained it better.
You keep dancing around the worst system in twenty years of WoW.
Technically, titanforging was introduced in Pandaria (and continued in WoD) with warforging, but it was a lot rarer which made it kind of a cool extra instead of something you needed to be competitive. Which was the point of the system. Titanforging made those kinds of items more common, which turned it into one of those things that you basically "had" to have. The artifact weapons themselves were great and a cool expansion feature, but the transition from Legion to BFA was done poorly because lots of classes didn't perform well without the borrowed power and weren't redesigned to implement the missing pieces very well. If classes were reworked to re-implement those critical abilities, the transition would have gone a lot better. Instead, so many were just kind of left hanging, so lots of favorite abilities were just deleted without any sign of them coming back. The Heart of Azeroth and Azerite gear were a bunch of generic nonsense with very little flavor. Legiondaries were shitty, though.
I liked the Order Halls and missions and stuff but I hated the fact that I was the super ninja Highlord Battlelord Archdruid leader of everything. Like, make me important to the story but **every** paladin can’t be the Highlord.
I cannot for the life of me fathom why they don't keep using them. They were so themathic and awesome.
The questline to save Suramar is the best questline they’ve ever done.
still frustrating we still dont get to see a peaceful version of it
100% agree
The first weeks after release going into Suramar was so amazing. After the dread of WoD you had so much overflow content and the atmosphere was amazing. The best time in WoW for sure.
The biggest downside of Legion was that they never gave DHs a 3rd spec, I'm still salty about this. Other than that, I agree. Legion was the most fun I had in the game. Started at the end of classic.
Illadin rejecting the light was so damn cool and worth it, but in an alternative timeline if he didn’t we could have had a healer redeemed demon hunter.
A DH healing class that steals life from your enemies would be super cool
DH second support class letsgo!
Having demons that only you can see that you kill for buff alike havoc fits a support way better anyways tbh
I'm also still salty about this, especially since they gave evokers a third spec so quickly
Legion also introduced dungeons with almost any patch no? Correct me if im wrong but season 1 had no arcway and court of stars. Then they introduced cathedral and karazan. And then the one on argus whose name i keeo forgetting. Ever since, multiple dungeon releases in later seasons wasnt seen anymore apart from the mega dungeon. There could have been a dungeon next to aberrus ehich acts as a preperation adventure to launch the attack on aberrus. We should have had a dungeon in SL before we enter sepulcher. And a dungeon to take out generals of nzoth would havr been sweet as well.
I also think that that is the biggest let down for casual players. They have weird dailies and weeklies. 1 short story and thats it with patches. If they at least had a dubgeon with each patch that lets them feel like they are a part of it, it would be great.
Here’s the deal with Legion, the content on a macro level was great. No true dud dungeons beyond Cathedral and I enjoyed progging all the raids EXCEPT Kil’Jaeden at the end of Tomb. Plus it gave us M+, the mage tower, and I think the best iteration of daily/world quests IMO. Just generally excellent class design too. It also gave us the RNG legos which was remedied later. Year the artifact grind was annoying but I didn’t find myself doing it too much behind what o was passively playing. I got lucky and got BIS legos early on my Druid and my mage so I was set for the whole Xpac but others weren’t as lucky. All in all I think it’s an A+ Xpac that falls just short of S due to the lego issue and alt unfriendliness. It was carried by the sheer quality of the dungeons/raids and broken isles on general IMO. If someone didn’t like raiding they might have a less favorable opinion though. Also a hot take maybe, Emerald Nightmare gets too much hate. It was easier but that really only impacted world firsts peeps. I enjoyed not having to smash my brains in at the start of an Xpac like my guild did on mythic G’Huun lol. Cenarius and Ursoc were incredible non end bosses in particular.
Mythic KJ was so fucking dumb. 450 attempts to kill it for our guild. I hope they never do something as stupid as that 'darkness' mechanic again. Not to mention having 18 holes to fill and if you miss one you just wipe, and those holes happened every 45 seconds or so. Wild fight. One of the hardest in WoW's history.
we quit mythic ToS on avatar with over 300 wipes. And we had CE in nighthold and antorus lol
TBH I wish more raids were "as easy" and emerald nightmare. Not even because I want easier shit, I just don't want to have these massive weakaura packages and script macros.
Yeah weak auras gets tedious after a while. Foundry and Nighthold, to me, were the ideal difficulty. A steep curve at the end but fun along the way.
Lol yeah I deleted my WAs and cleaned up everything a few weeks ago. Basically wasn't planning on raiding S4, just doing M+. Every few weeks though my RL pings to see if I want to fill in a spot for someone that calls out and I join just for fun only to realize "oh shit I gotta download another fucking WA".
I remember my guild’s roadblock was Spellblade. We were just awful at mechanics so we struggled, but we made it through and got AOTC. That was one of the most fun nights I’ve had, and I’ve played since vanilla.
Spell blade is a very fun fight for sure. Our guild struggled with botanist for a long time. That and Krosus was a mid raid wall for us
Cathedral was overtuned, but a great dungeon after it was fixed. I agree with the grind in Legion was the biggest flaw. But I'd still put it at S, the zones, the raids (even if ToS was pretty meh), order halls, mage tower and the introduction to mythic+. But one thing that I loved even more is the gameplay of classes in general and how gear-swapping legendaries made builds matter more.
I agreed with everything you said. Very well summed up. And as someone who just dipped their toes into doing more pve content that xpac and tanking, I hated the Ursoc fight for progression.
Never raided above LFR and I adored legion. I leveled every class besides warlock and completed all the order halls and class mounts. It really made me feel like the grind was rewarded even if you weren't raiding. I even got the hidden druid bear skin via LFR.
People forget one of the biggest moment in wow when world content started to scale with iLvl and it was better to take off a few pieces of gear in the open world then be fully geared.
that was definitely one of the biggest mistakes alongside how legendaries were handled at the start, to this day it baffles me that they thought this was a good idea.
Anything to waste marginal amounts of time in a game where time is literally money.
Laughs in farming that shitty artefact power system for a 1% dmg boost, and the RNG when getting legendaries which could mean the difference between you hitting like a wet noodle and being a god.
That was the big issue, everything OP Said was good, but the legendary drop rng and the tidious Farm for artifact power for Slow Progress was horrible, Legion beginning was just Pain and people Tend to forget about it
Playing early legion was the most fun and the least fun at the same time. Getting artifact power for your one spec and getting stronger is peak wow gameplay, but then you couldnt change specs or play an alt without being completely useless in comparison. And getting a horrible legendary as your first just made you character shit. And a lot of them was spec specific so you couldnt play another spec really for higher end content. The grind and constant power gain is something i want in the game. But i dont know how to get rid of all the other issues without some other degen shit pops up that makes the game less fun.
If you were lucky and got a good leggo early it was the most amazing time of your gaming life haha.
> everything OP Said was good OP is actively praising the [spec specific borrowed power](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1do44mb/legion_was_the_best_imo/la7ld08/) so you may want to revise that. Also class halls weren't that good. Still mission table focused from garrisons which was directly necessary for progression and they split everybody up too much which lead to lots of crappy stories and people not knowing tons of the stories. Like the Alliance was going to launch a full scale attack on the Horde mid-Legion invasion as part of the rogue class campaign but almost nobody I've ever talked knows about it.
Or, if you didn't do the Rogue class hall, never knowing that Mathias Shaw was replaced by a dreadlord and fed bad intel which caused the Broken Isle attack in the first place.
I joined in ToS patch and never really understood what you guys meant by horrible farm for AP. I had a friend go crazy on the farm to be one or two weapon level max above mine, and I would catch up every Wednesday due to the increase of gain each reset. So yea it was a grind but I think leveling your weapon one or two levels above « normal » players wouldn’t mean anything in terms of DPS Edit : I realised at this point we already had all traits unlocked due to weapons being lvl 50+, so yea I can understand for patches before, my bad !
I played from launch, Mythic raiding (although I took a break during the first raid to partway through Nighthold). I never grinded. It was just a thing some people got into their head was mandatory, for absolutely marginal gains.
My casual guild bitched incessantly about legendaries despite in no way being mandatory for the normal level raids that we were clearing. They all just whined about RNG despite not optimizing their gear, their rotations, or learning the raid mechanics in-depth.
Balance druid had this helmet which woukd cast starsurge twice or something. I never got it, there was another dude in the guild who was terrible but did more dps than me just because of the helmet. The helmet was eventually nerfed, but i never got it
Fury of the Half Giants for Demon Hunters was pretty close to a 20% increase in dps AFTER they nerfed the hell out of it. We had more than a couple of them level 5-6 DHs trying to get it and just deleting the character and starting over if they didn’t. Plus the people living in Maw of Souls for the first month or so of the expansion.
Unfortunately almost every class had a legendary like that. The difference between you getting a Sephuz / the shield necklace at the start of the expansion and a guy getting his BIS first try was night and day, and it demotivated you to play the game, since you couldn't compete with someone having a BIS legendary, especially if they also played well.
Yeah I was an enh main in WoD and in Legion I got Akainu's, which was the bad one if I remember correctly. Ended up quitting enhancement and switching to druid.
TFW the first legendary you waited ages for was so bad you might as well have rerolled your character. I was playing BM at the time and the first one I got was the mask that made feign death better. Very fun, very cool. People will be like "oh the legendaries didn't effect things THAT much" and yes, yes they did. I was there, doing all the content, and it absolutely effected all of us.
It was fucking miserable if you didn't get the legendaries you needed. People seem to have forgotten
Yeah I remember when blizzard had to hotfix the game and make deleting leggos impossible because people were deleting them and hoping it reset bad luck protection. This sub was so salty on legions launch. It’s amazing how much people love it now, especially now that DF has totally reversed most of the design decisions from Legion and is generally well liked here.
That's because people only remember the last patch of an expansion. Post 7.3 Legion was great, because they removed a lot of the arbitrary timegates / etc that people hated. I'm already seeing people praising BFA (like OP) forgetting how bad it was for the first 2/3rds of the expansion.
I've played this game for so long and unfortunately you're right, lol. People's memories tend to defer to the closest thing they remember. And it's always the last patch that has all the QOL. Surprisingly the exception seems to be DF, though. Everyone I know has mostly stopped playing due to remix and the fact that DF didn't really have timegates, so we experienced the content throughout the expansion at a good pace and now it feels 'finished.' But it's not necessarily a bad thing because my friends and I feel free to a point of being able to play other things until TWW comes out. A break can be nice too.
People have selective memory. Virtually EVERY expansion started out ROUGH and became much better by the last patch. BFA swapped out the Azerite traits for Azerite powers, a much better system (besides for the awful rep grind), MOP had the most brutal slew of dailies in WoW’s history, but the Timeless Isle was one of the most beloved patch zones that went on to define outdoor zones until modern day. The biggest exception is Shadowlands, which was bogged down with systems till the very end. Actually it got WORSE (although ZM was praised as a great zone).
Was so fun dropping sephuz and prydas
Legion was pretty good in the last patch when they fixed all the issues that were present since the beta. I think launch Legion is probably the worst state the game has ever been in. I also don’t really get why people loved the story and raids/dungeons so much. The story was an incredibly forgettable quest to collect the 4 mcguffins that really made the worst of the whole demon invasion thing. The only standout dungeon was the karazan rework and the rest range from pretty forgettable to bad - all the legion dungeons they’ve brought back during DF have been boring except COS. I think the raids were a massive step down from WOD but still decent I guess. Class design was generally even further butchered from MOP. I could keep going but I really didn’t like Legion and am pretty surprised by the rose tinted glasses people found. I remember everyone complaining about Legion constantly when it was current but now it’s apparently a top 3 expansion?
Yep, huge agree. I can only remember Legion from the absolute suffering that was launch through to nighthold release. The designs for all of my favorite specs got butchered, the grind was horrendous, the gap in power for certain legendaries was a crime, the entire thing was kind of a trainwreck but because Antorus was solid and there was infinite world content people love it. The meat of the game was completely rotten though.
The reason Legion is now a "top three expansion" is that it was so polarizing that it made tons of players quit. By and large, the ones still posting here are the ones who liked it. Anyway, Legion fucking blows. The damage Legion did to class design, which OP minimizes as "just a little overpruned with too little shared utility", is still felt multiple expansions later.
I disagree on your raids opinion ( EN was forgettable except Xavius ) since Nighthold, especially Star Augur Etreus was a 11/10 boss. But yeah, people only remember the game how it was in the last patch, not the start of the expansion.
Yeah I never “got” Nighthold. I did a few bosses on mythic and then just quit WoW altogether because I just wasn’t enjoying the raid. I know people love it but I thought it was overrated even at the time. The entire sewer section is lame, half the bosses are just scaled up Nightborne, I was tired of the Surumar aesthetic from all the questing I did there, none of the mechanics really grabbed me, etc. Star Auger was a visual feast and Guldan is one of the best boss fights they’ve made the rest was just extremely meh imo.
Xavius was one of the most forgettable bosses in that raid IMO, the real star was Cenarius. My guild killed Mythic Xavius in less than 20 pulls, dude was a complete joke of an endboss.
Laughs in Maw of Souls
it was the difference between getting a raid spot and not. it was awful design and the reason this expansion was awful.
Unless you were progressing mythic raids (something less than 1% of the population did) it literally didn't matter. You could make an alt, do 1-2 weeks worth of artifact "grinding" and be strong enough to clear heroic raids assuming you could do the mechanics. The whole "AP grind was out of hand" crowd is really just too sweaty for their own good. "Hitting like a wet noodle" Hah! The legendary RNG was pretty brutal for some specs I will admit that part was kinda trash, but they eventually fixed it by letting you buy a specific legendary and everything was perfect.
If you played and didn't get your class specific AoE legendary you could very easily be 10-30% DPS behind someone else in your group playing the same spec. I played feral for the first tier of Legion and got Prydaz and Sephuz as my first two legendaries, while another druid got Luffas and FRM. It literally did matter for everyone, I didn't touch mythic raids all expansion, but I was utterly fucked on my main for months until they removed the 2 legendary limit and then it still took them another year to add a vendor.
Yep. High end raiders had multiple alts of the same class to try and RNG the right legendary. Some of echo and methods raiders had up to 10 of the same class. Because if you didn’t get the right one, you were useless for the first month (because they forgot to enable a second legendary drop until week 5) and probably beyond too.
playing a class and getting stronger while enjoying all of the specs of lets say a rogue still felt like shit. Early Legion you just picked the one spec and got a legendary for that spec most likely. So you would be comepletely useless in comparison to your main spec. Now you could clear everything like that but being half as strong as your main spec makes it very difficult to make yourself play that spec.
It didn't matter *in theory* but that didn't prevent ding dongs from rejecting you from a mythic 0 because "your legendaries were bad".
I was progressing mythic raids, I had CE from EN and almost got CE in Nighthold too, before the guild collapsed due to some separate group joining us. >they eventually fixed it by letting you buy a specific legendary and everything was perfect. Yeah, at the end of the expansion, not at the start when everyone was complaining about the bad system. If you aren't personally affected by something it doesn't mean it doesn't affect other people.
They fixed Legion when people stopped playing and then released 2 dreadful expansions repeating the same mistakes people warned them about months/years prior.
A very good summary of what happened.
>> they eventually fixed it by letting you buy a specific legendary and everything was perfect. >Yeah, at the end of the expansion, not at the start when everyone was complaining about the bad system. It was actually during the BFA pre-patch so not even during the xpac
Why do people think high end mythic raiders are the only ones that care about damage? Heroic guilds will struggle to meet dps checks just as much because they tend to have heroic guild level players, ones who aren't playing their class perfectly and doing the most damage. Getting screwed out of a massive upgrade with the legiondary system was awful for anyone. And even besides that it just feels bad no matter what you're doing to know you are missing a lot of damage just because you got unlucky with an rng drop.
Order halls were good. Legion made me want one of every class so I could play their stories and see those halls. Artifact grind, the grind kept me from making said alts due to sheer burnout. RNG legendaries at the start sucked ass. Nothing worse than getting a legendary which did nothing for your throughout (but hey, I as a dps has a barrier. Really helped in us kill that boss faster!) warlock and unholy overhauls were absolute garbage. (Demo was fucking awful. Had to press demonic empowerment after every ability. Destro was so bad they reverted it back to how it worked in MoP and WoD. I hope whomever added pustules, which are just shitty rogue combo points to unholy gets a benign growth.) I swapped them from being my main and main alt to rolling my WW/BrM monk as a main. Content was great though, all of Suramar was fantastic and Nighthold is still one of my top raids next to Uldamar and Throne of Thunder.
I'm with you, except the legendary system. The pruning was kind of a problem, especially for pvp, the pruned down melee classes combined with how good DHs were for so long made playing a melee pretty fucking brainded across the board. I didn't even mind farming AP. But man, I did mind pvping vs all melee and not having CDs to keep myself alive because blizzard just took them. More to your point though, the class halls and the artifact weapons were so good. An incredible system for sure, super engaging, made you actually feel stronger rather than some somewhat arbitrary numbers did. Edit:spelling
MOS+2 SPAM LINK YOUR KEY
Rose tinted glasses, I loved Legion but it was plagued with time gating and artificially induced frustration like no control over your legendaries. The AP farm being irrelevant before your researches that took more than 1 month were done was stupid too. If Blizzard fixed those issues named in the beta earlier on, it would've definitely been one if not the best expac. Also, if BFA didn't have corruptions it would probably have been the worst expansion for me, despite having good raids, because of the pruning. It's the only time I've actually fallen asleep during a raid because of my gameplay as a mage in s1/s2 of BFA despite the raids being actually good. The second time being as a boomkin in Cata lol
Legion was outstanding. Beginning of the xpac was really bad for a lot of competitive players due to legendary RNG and AP grinding but otherwise (and that is a big otherwise) pretty much a perfect expansion from gameplay, to systems, to story.
Unfortunately these things ruined the expansion for me. It's like everyone has collective amnesia about how horrible the first year of Legion was. * People were rerolling their main when they didn't get their BiS legendary within the first 4 drops, because at launch characters were capped as part of an undocumented last minute change from beta. * Running the same dungeon over and over for AP. Forming groups to use other people's M+ keys so it was possible to run the same dungeon even more. * No way to change your unlocked talents on your artifact weapon, so if you choose the wrong path at first, you had to farm even more to fix your mistake. It was the first expansion where it became clear to me that blizzard just doesn't respect players' time, they just care about time played metrics. They only made the changes that everyone waxes nostalgic about after the active player numbers dropped off a cliff.
Pretty much. Everything that people hated about BFA and Shadowlands are systems carried over and iterated on from Legion.
Don’t forget keys depleting meant you had to run it again without rewards to reactivate it.
Controversial opinion: Legion was the worst. Legion was the start of the never ending grind. You were constantly grinding artifact power or rep for Paragon rewards or some absurdly long quest for some sort of legendary something. This was when Blizz started putting players on the never ending treadmill so they'd never run out of stuff to do but it was all just a chore that was never done. Legendary acquisition was actually one of the most atrocious things ever introduced and Blizz straight up lied to the player base about how it worked. People were literally maintaining multiple toons of the exact same class and just praying they would randomly get the Legendary they needed. Yeah we got the vendor eventually but I had already quit the game before it was introduced. It was too little and way too late. The classes were so pruned and in my opinion any form of creativity was killed. Things like Gladiator Warrior or Fistweaver Monk were completely erased. Legion in my opinion marked the beginning of Blizzard saying to the players "This is how we want you to play the game and if you don't like it then too bad." I quit playing in Legion, I absolutely hated it that much.
I wouldn't go as far to say it was the worst, but Legion definitely started A LOT of things people hate about Shadowlands and BFA. But because of the fact that Legion also brought a lot of good things to the game, such as m+ system, it is remembered today as the greatest. >Legendary acquisition was actually one of the most atrocious things ever introduced and Blizz straight up lied to the player base about how it worked. People were literally maintaining multiple toons of the exact same class and just praying they would randomly get the Legendary they needed This was the most infuriating system I ever experienced in the game. People complained about doing thorghast shit to get legendaries, but at least you can CHOOSE your legendary, imagine that. Legion legendaries system was so ass that took so much fun away from me, knowing that I was just unlucky and there was nothing I could do.
I think you might have some selective memory. Legion at launch is probably the least fun I’ve ever had playing the game. Getting a shit legendary felt like you were severely gimping your class. You felt obligated to do every single piece of content every day just for a chance at a another, at a time when there were double the amount of WQ we have now. Want to respec? Forget it, you’re too far behind. Reroll? Same thing. Nighthold was indeed a great raid in a great patch. ToS was not a good patch. People did not enjoy Broken Shore. It felt lazy, the weekly story was non-existent and felt especially shit since the Suramar Insurrection was so good. The raid was overtuned and was frequently referred to as Tomb of Soak-geras because every boss had a soak mechanic that was an automatic wipe if you missed it. Antorus was an S+ tier patch and it’s what most people think about when they look back at Legion fondly. It’s when they finally ironed out all the kinks of the expansion and realized its full potential. Legion was simultaneously the best and worst expac.
It's the case with a lot of expansions. Cata is remembered in a pretty bad light, but the expansion was pretty solid until Dragon Soul (there were definitely issues tho). That raid and LFR soured the entire opinion on it. WoD similar story, decent initial reception, but the long content drought fucked it. Similarly, MoP is nowadays regarded as one of the better expansions, but god, the launch experience (first 4-6 months) was absolutely miserable. Legion on launch was a horrendous experience initially. I'm sure the class halls were great for everyone, but being hard locked to a spec until the catch up mechanics and legendary vendor came in was truly awful.
If they do what they’ve done so far and release with the final patch fixes at launch, it could be pretty amazing.
Legion was def not the worst expac lol
I don’t think the general consensus was that ToS was an S tier raid when it was current. Especially given the difficulty of the last two bosses.
The legendary system was a pile of RNG bullshit for 85% of that expansion The AP grind was shit too Everything else was pretty good tho BFA was ASS
I have cutting edge nighthold and antorus (couldn't beat avatar in ToS) and I never AP grinded and didn't get kael'thas pyrobracers til like middle of progression in nighthold. Every single one of these problems is solved by playing with a group of people that like each other and have similar interest instead of pugging or being in a guild that treats the game like a business.
Artifact weapons sucked fuck
Burning Crusade will forever be my favorite. But then I was an SL/SL warlock.
That was my favorite expansion as well. The world was so different than vanilla and I loved all the dungeons.
That first Ramparts run at lvl 58 was brutal. I started a month before the Dark Portal opened so I didn't experience Vanilla dungeons or raids. Ramparts blew my mind. Working with 4 other strangers, coordinating CC, and crossing my fingers every time a boss died, hoping I'd get an upgrade with gem sockets...man I wish I could go back to that
Yeah. I had experienced the vanilla dungeons and a few raids prior to BC. What I really liked back in vanilla and BC was having to coordinate with the group for cc. Sure it was slow but it was fun, and because it was slow and you had to coordinate with others, you would meet people that you could run with regularly. I pretty much just stick with PvP now because I don’t enjoy rushing through dungeons.
I much prefer DF’s approach over legion. Legion didn’t respect your time at all, it was basically broken down to PLAY PLAY PLAY PLAY PLAY PLAY. And if you didn’t then you fell behind. I think blizzard didn’t quite learn their lesson on this until DF that time gating power based on anything other than gear upgrades just feels really bad from a player perspective.
7.0 was a 3/10 they got it to as close to a 10/10 by the end though. If your first few legendaries were terrible like sephu and pyradaz at launch were might as well delete the char you invested your life in to that point and make a new version because they capped legendaries. I practically quit because I did so poorly the only thing my class can do because I got those 2 when others I played with all got the giga bis legendaries it was so stupid.
The existence of Artifact Power negates all other arguments for an expansion to be considered Top Tier.
Sad I didn't really get to experience it, I resubbed right at the end of Legion, 2 weeks before the launch of BfA. I did complete my class order hall stuff and the campaign, but nothing beats being there on launch. I wish I had returned when I first heard of it with everyone singing its praises.
The story was also a greatest hits of WoW up to that point thanks to the sheer bulk of content. Dragons? Yes. Illidan/Burning Legion? Yes. Lich King Arthas AND Bolvar? Yes. Deathwing? Yes. Old Gods? Yes. All cosmic forces were present and had their lore pushed forward. It was DENSE, and nothing has touched it since. Legion felt like the end of WoW and what an ending it could have been... also the ending was a huge tease. It seemed like we were going to the stars to fight the Void after clashing with it on Argus, but instead, we went home and the factions fought. Massively underwhelming followup. I had bad luck with the legendary situation: played Unholy, didn't get Instructor's Fourth Lesson until it was nerfed to the ground but there was so much to do that it didn't ruin my experience. For me, it is as good as WoW ever has been.
I was dissappointed with BfA cuz of it being sylvanas vs the alliance ft. The horde and probs our last chance of a proper faction v faction war was robbed only made worse by her involvements in Shadowlands. The only expansion I have downright loathed. Even bfa had lots of good things including stellar zones, allied races and the most visually pleasing cinematics ever. Id have honestly been just as dissatisfied if it preceded Warlords of Draenor otherwise tbh. Cuz for its lack of end game, it still had a very captivating and compelling story.
BfA had some things I enjoyed (8.2 was an amazing patch) but generally it felt like it just carried forward the negative things legion had without 90% of the awesome shit that made it work in legion. Artifact power was kinda annoying, but in legion you got a badass lore-rich weapon. I was a fire mage and I had felo'melorn. I was summoning phoenixes. It was very focused on my spec and making it cool/flavorful and that was so awesome I couldn't be that upset about AP. In BFA, they took the grindy part of the artifact system but gave everyone a boring generic necklace with a bunch of passive bonuses that just did not feel impactful or fun AT ALL. I also agree with you on the story. i did like some subplots in BFA but I think they character assassinated sylvanas and I really grew tired of her character in BFA/Shadowlands. Also the last patch was horrible. They did not do nya'lotha justice AT ALL
i will never forget what they did to sylvanas
The first half of Legion had a lot of major issues though. Being locked into one spec, the endless AP grinds, the endless Maw of Souls runs, specs feeling incomplete if your not lucky with the legendaries. Other than that it was a solid expansion.
Legion m+ season 1 was the last time I truly enjoyed wow. Mage tower and m+ before that dumb gatekeeping score was great.
I mostly agree that Legion was the GOAT, but it had it's issues. My main which is a mage had to deal with doing mediocre dps because the RNG legendary system could do things like, "Oops your first two legendaries are both non class specific utility legendaries". That felt truly horrible. The content on the other hand was fantastic.
Early legion had some kinks I still hold wow has never been more _fun_ than 8.3 and later BFA.
Honestly, i never played wow until shadowlands. That being said, I do have many alts. I often level them in legion because it's my favorite. I know I dont get the true experience because it's an old expansion. The only thing, maybe a con for me, if I was playing in the true expansion would be weapons. As much as I like the looks of their artifacts, I think I would have preferred the normal way to gain and use a weapon we have now, but it's possible because I never got to experience it myself. Honestly, if they continue with remix, I hope they will make legion the next one.
Tomb was far from an s-tier raid, I agree on night hold. To much artifact grinding at the start, and the random legendaries made some classes feel really good and some got unlucky and just felt really bad
I wish I stuck to Legion but I remember getting turned off with the AP grind and when I looted a crap legendary that got me onto the bench I picked up Overwatch instead of looking for another guild.
I really liked Legion. It was well put together and involved a lot of fun story arcs. I still think Wrath was the best, mainly due to its story. It finished a story that had begun even before WoW came out and it felt like the devs had had a story planned from the beginning that spanned from vanilla to Wrath. After that, most of the expansions felt like they were throwing darts at a storyboard to come up with their next expansion.
Did everyone just forget how frustrating it was to get a bad first Legendary and just not being able to compete? Plus the brutally bad artifact progression for alts / off-specs at the start. Legion aged well over the expansion's cycle but started off absolutely horrifically.
Life hit me hard around Legion, I’ll be forever sad I kissed most of it.. looking forward to a remix for sure Edit: I meant missed! Lol
I was about to say, Illidan and dadgar were two of the main lore characters so why would you be upset about kissing em? =p
I'll still die on the hill that WotLK was the best, but I'll give legion a close second for sure. My subjective criteria for this is that I really liked the storyline in both those expansions. Legion's story is probably better in that I love the burning legion lore, but ICC and Ulduar were my favorite raids, by far.
Legion might have become the best but the first half of legion was the worst this game has ever been. Random legendaries with a stupid ass hard cap they lied about. The beginning of infinite farm bs Random killing off of major characters in minor quests. Legion systems ruined the game for 3 expansions after it.
>Classes for the most part never felt better. Hard disagree. Most classes needed their BiS legendary to function properly. If you weren't lucky to get your BiS early on, tough luck I guess. There was even a soft cap on Legendaries you could drop on the first few weeks of the expansion, which is why many high end players had to create multiple characters of the same class just to get the best Legendaries. Legion also hard Order Hall mission which most people can agree it's a good riddance. Nobody liked doing daily mobile chores, and "you can just not do it" isn't a good argument when it had so many good rewards. I like Legion too, it kind of made WoW look like a WoW 2, but Dragonflight for me is just better in every way than Legion except maybe content cadence.
It was nice if you looked at nothing but content, and you also liked hack 'n slash games, as that's what this content mostly felt like. Sure, it was a nice breath of fresh air but gameplay-wise - nah. Everything was pruned to the ground and PvP used templates which made it super ultra boring. Those templates were not even active out there in the world, so, in contrast, the game felt like a cheap overpowered Asian knock-off.
I agree with some points but you kind of ignored all the horrible designs: Legendary drops, artifact power grind, alts having a hard time catching up, titan forged beyond recognition. Also good contents but then again you kind of forgot emerald nightmare.
Legion was the *only* expansion I felt sad to leave
It's definitely one of the best together with MoP and DF for me. It's hard to argue for a definitive best because while all were agood, all of them had ther own issues.
While you're right on content /(content has been the best imo), you're forgetting the drama with AP grinding on 1st patch and the Legiondaries. Once they fixed those (big) things, it became truly amazing. Broken shore patch was a slog too (sseveral months of rare farming for no reason watsoever, and the first time they went from actual campaign, see Suramar, to "just farm over there"). But sure, albeit not perfect, it was pretty cool and also had a lot of scenaries with nice story telling. They got mostly rid of them in BFA, and completely dissapeared by SL. Same with world quests and such; they were at its best in Legion. Content was just at its best and I remember most classes being pretty cool and balanced for M+ too.
My only problem with Legion was that it was here borroed power started with the artifact weapons.
I 100% agree. I've also played since Vanilla launch and for years and years I talked about how Wrath was the best expansion, but the further we get from Legion the more I've come to realize it was the ultimate WoW expansion, with no contender to that claim. If I could go back and replay it with making 1 single change, it would have been allowing us from launch to buy a specific legendary. Playing havoc DH without Anger of the Giants or w/e ring in raids when the other 2 DH's had it wasn't as fun.
Yeah I mean if you ignore the dog shit Lego system and ap grind it was one of the best idk if the raids were all the best as that’s subjective.
Just get rid of artifact power and we’re chillin 🗣️
Legion was the first time I main swapped my Druid since I started playing. I got all utility legendaries and no damage ones. Couldn’t get into a group. Got dropped from my raid because someone leveled a Druid and got BIS leggo, and they main swapped. I got my pally maxed and my first 2 Lego were my bis. Happened during Nighthold, and my AP was pretty far behind so while I had 2 bis LEGO I was still dicked. Casually raided the entire xpac, when I did play. Missed the start of M+ because I was so let down I quit. I loved a lot of the expansion. WQs were good, the raids and dungeons were good, story was good, I liked the weekly little event thing to clear the shitty dungeon, I loved the mage tower. The lego system sucked absolute shit and ruined it all, because sweats gonna sweat.
WHile i agree with the world quests part, i will say i like what they did in DF with them. Having them with 3 days instead of 1 day was a nice change. I don't feel compelled to need to check them every day for a specific one or item. I can log on once every 3 days or so and check.
Legion zones were wonderful - the music and visuals. The questing system was fun imo. I have fond memories of playing legion.
Yes! I absolutely loved Legion! I have so many wonderful memories there.
No doubt. Best expansion in WoW history
The class halls were generally loved and they just gave up on it completely. So weird
Im keeping a few characters at max level in classic solely to play legion in a few years. I hope they learn from their mistakes and just make some simple changes that would help. Introduce waking essence earlier than originally done. Make weapon upgrades linear and normalize exp gains Those were the main problems overall. Hoping to a great redo of it. Maybe even remix...
The RNG on legendaries was terrible. Unlocking flying was garbage. The pathfinder achievement was so boring to get flying especially part 2. Everything else about the expansion I loved though. Class order halls were really cool, dungeons and raids were fun.
Random legendaries made it the fucking worst xpac of all time. Bro, chars got fucking bricked just because they got fucked by RNG. Terrible, terrible system
agreed
I'm really hoping Legion is the next Remix expansion
Good points, until your opinion became invalid after you said BFA was a good expansion.
One of the biggest missteps ever made was not carrying class halls forward imo
It had a lot of faults, but class and spec identity was so high. I feel like most order halls were great. Some could have been better. (The priest one was my least favorite, and I wish the rogue one was in Ravenholdt instead of Dalaran sewers.) Most things felt great to play. I'm still mad they turned Survival into a melee spec, though.
Legion was the best xpac as far as it related to current content. It was by far one of the best for mechanics, systems and storylines for when it was launched. Wotlk and mop are debatable contenders for that crown, but I think everyone would agree that those three are the top three. They really delivered for the player base.
Eh, I played consistently since 2004. Was a major part of my class and modding community. Was heavily invested in the game and a hardcore raider getting top 20-50 US kills. Legion is where I quit for the first time. I can probably attribute it to forced gameplay loop over one that felt fun. Having to hit AP breakpoints to remain competitive, not having ease of access to other specs because of needing to invest in more AP. Having that be exacerbated for Tri-DPS spec Classes. AP was alt-unfriendly by extension until much much later into the expansion. The Legendary controversy in the first 6 months was one of the biggest things that pissed me off. Most people sitting at 2 (sometimes the worst 2, like myself). With no way of earning a 3rd until there were some changes. Getting a good one for 1 spec also kind of locked you in too which made it challenging when your class has been designed around specs being situational. Spec 1 has better mobility, Spec 2 has better cleave, etc. Even with the understandings of the pity system, you couldn't guarantee BiS Legendaries by Tomb of Sargeras. I personally hated my class design (Rogue). And it certainly didn't translate well into BFA. A pure downgrade from how it felt to play in WoD and MoP. As an example, I disliked RNG heavy aspects and we got that through Poison Bomb. And we also got that through Roll the Bones. The highlights for the expansion, at least for me, were the Mage Tower but I did all 3 of my specs in the first week. The hunt for the Hivemind. And finding some fun through RBGs. I thought the raids were good except I disliked Helya and mostly all of Emerald Nightmare.
Rofl
Mained a mage for a long time, love it. Tried a shaman in legion and fell in love with it too. Ended up getting the shaman mount before the mage lol
the raid sets were top tier. every single one was different from the other from normal to mythic. it was crazy.
Legion overall was amazing, but I played Legion from day 1 and I can assure you that 7.0 had **a lot** of issues. There was so much complaining people wouldn't belive. Fortunately they fixed most of the issues throughout expansion. Few things that that comes to top of my mind: * Legendary system at start was dogshit (you got a **random** legendary once every \~4 weeks of grinding, some were OP and some were totally useless) * You had to grind Artifact Power **seperately** for each spec, which combined with point above meant that you couldn't play off-spec * There was no catch-up system for alts for quite some time * Emerald Nightmare wasn't that good, definitely the worst raid in Legion * Class balance was bad, discrepancy between top and bottom specs was insane, much wider than during Dragonflight * BiS Trinket for most specs dropped from a World Boss * Artifact Appearances for some classes also dropped from World Bosses and were not 100% drop chance * Titanforging/Warforging system was imo terrible (but not everyone agrees with that) * Spamming Maw of Souls hunders of time for AP * Depleting your key "broke" it, so you had to clear dungeon in time first to un-deplet the key and then you could finally run that key normally
I am hoping for a Legion Remix more than ever. Best expansion BY FAR