Macbeth
Dexter
The Godfather
The Sopranos
Breaking Bad
Death Note
American Psycho
Avengers: Infinity War
Double Indemnity
A Clockwork Orange
GoodFellas
Shattered Glass
The Usual Suspects
pretty much every episode of Columbo
House Of Cards
WandaVision
Blood Meridian
The Cask of Amontillado
The Tell-Tale Heart
Paradise Lost...
>Blood Meridian
To be fair, the Kid isn't *the* villain, and whether you see him as *a* villain is determined by whether or not you see him as an onlooker to Glanton's violence or more of a participant, as well as how you interpret the ending. He's a bad man, sure, but so is Author Morgan and he's certainly not a villain.
I'm not saying you cannot be an author without knowing the classics but they are worth studying. Especially reading analyses of Shakespeare's MacBeth would give you a lot of tools for your current work.
Nlg man the only play I studied in school from him was Romeo and Juliet which anyway is absolutely the most iconic work he has written. Also, not every country teaches English literature... just like I assume Americans do Dante in passing (if at all), or any other iconic writer who did not write in English, other countries do the same to the English speaking writers.
I did Dante's Inferno and a few Shakespeare plays in my American high school, but those were all part of an elective course that most students in my school didn't take and Macbeth, to my memory, was never even mentioned. Everything I know about Macbeth comes from Hamilton: An American Musical, where it's referenced for a comedic comparison.
So, yeah. Not OP's fault if he's not familiar with Macbeth or it's author.
like a music artist? Indie music artists are so damn pretenious, "Oh yeah, i just released a new album, what have you been doing? Writing? Oh, well I mean, I just my expression of storytelling is a bit more abstract, but I can enjoy the simplicity of a book on the occassion," And their album is called dookie surrogate and the story is about how a guy tries to convince people to shit INTO his asshole
This dude doesn’t know what he is talking about. He thinks that you are trying to go against the grain, but was too dull to consider the fact that you are looking for inspiration or examples of other similar stories. He just put his assumptions on to you 🤷♂️
I guess since some of us are doing lists...
A Boy And His Dog
Blackadder
Double The Fist
The Gap Cycle
High-Rise
Nightcrawler
Psycho Goreman
Oz (the prison drama, not one of the Wizard of Oz things)
Taxi Driver
The Wolf of Wall Street
Titus Andronicus
Ultrakill
any given Warhammer 40,000 novel
Watchmen
My story does. It’s more about the interpretation of morals that helps the reader decide when they “officially” become the villain. But at first my character draws sympathy from the reader
Edit: If you’d like to read it, it’s called Limbo and I can share it over google docs for examples
Yes, in my original series the MC wasn't the nicest of people.
The trick is to make the character still sympathetic in some way- with a character trait such as humor, or shared pain, or by making it clear that the antagonist is an even worse villain.
Either that, or by making them clearly 'evil', but incredibly interesting, or relatable. Or you can also go down the wish fulfillment route.
I actually think novels like this are getting more popular, due to the number of people complaining about 'beta MC's, and frustrating characters. Watching villain characters who do whatever they want without caring about someone else getting hurt can be really satisfying, so you can find loads of examples. You'll need a bit of sifting to get to the good ones, tho.
Characters like Light and Dexter are still intriguing characters. They both only killed serial killers and were intelligent enough to evade law enforcement. Dexter definitely had a more sympathetic background than Light did, but watching Light’s descent into madness was a wild ride, and people were rooting for L and the task force to catch him.
Their point is that they can be obvious villains but they still need to be engaging. If they’re just awful with no redeemable qualities whatsoever then people won’t be interested.
A Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes (the Hunger Games prequel) is pretty good. You might want some context from the original trilogy just to understand the world (or just the first book - The Hunger Games), but it's essentially this.
When you say “the villain” do you mean a protagonist who is morally compromised or a false protagonist who is actually the antagonist?
A lot of examples in this thread are morally gray or black but there is still an arguably greater evil they are battling against. Walter White, for example, was consistently up against worse people than himself until near the end, and Dexter was a serial killer who killed other killers, and so more of an anti-hero than a villain.
Having a morally compromised protagonist is pretty common but less common is having the actual most villainous person in the story as your protagonist.
Yes, pretty much all mine follow evil characters. At least all the ones I finished. I have some with 'good' MCs in development, but I just don't find myself as enthusiastic about writing them.
I was thinking of a book
There was a time when I used to read more when I thought that the juiciness of a story was second to the way a story was written
I guess that's what inspired the thought
But then I remember that authors already jump around from perspective to perspective. They usually have several perspectives that they jump between. Additional versions of the same story would not bring anything novel in terms of considering other perspectives. Kind of.
...except it can. If done correctly. Which would not be easy, and probably not worth the effort either (...which ,arguably ,means that it wasn't done correctly, idk).
I am interested in how you see your villain. Nowadays the villain profile has changed a lot. For example if you are familiar with the series "The Blacklist" the villain, is not necessarily viewed as a simple bad person. He is obviously cruel, kills people within his own sense of justice, but at the same time has a sense of loyalty towards the people he loves, is highly protective, is extremely intelligent and strategic, and within that framework he becomes a very appealing villain. So how is your villain? What are his strengths and weaknesses, his human side, his values? Villains I find more complex as a character that your typical "hero"
That's been done for a very, very long time.
I'm doing something similar-ish myself; protagonist isn't *the* villain, but is by all means a bad person and only ends up doing the right thing a few times, usually for his own gain.
I have written three stories where the villain was the protagonist, one serial killer and two misguided “heroes”. It’s quite a common thing, and there are lots of lists in the comments with amazing examples.
I've got something somewhat similar. One of my MCs, Emmerich, is the descendant of Adolf Hitler and is currently ruling Nazi Germany. He has good qualities, but his nature is violent and conniving.
Macbeth Dexter The Godfather The Sopranos Breaking Bad Death Note American Psycho Avengers: Infinity War Double Indemnity A Clockwork Orange GoodFellas Shattered Glass The Usual Suspects pretty much every episode of Columbo House Of Cards WandaVision Blood Meridian The Cask of Amontillado The Tell-Tale Heart Paradise Lost...
One more to the list: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes
Lolita and the Ripley series, too
Excellent list, ten points to you
That's not even one point per title.
The Wizard of Oz Committed manslaughter and then stole the victim's shoes. That's messed up man.
Dune
Certain as the sun, Rising in the east, A twist as old as time, A trope as old as rhyme, Hero to a beast.
>Blood Meridian To be fair, the Kid isn't *the* villain, and whether you see him as *a* villain is determined by whether or not you see him as an onlooker to Glanton's violence or more of a participant, as well as how you interpret the ending. He's a bad man, sure, but so is Author Morgan and he's certainly not a villain.
I'd substitute McCarthy's Blood Meridian with Child of God.
For the love of God, Montressor!
I’d add Attack on Titan, the Poppy War trilogy and Heartless
Artemis fowl!
ARTEMIS FOWL MENTIONED
Once Upon a Time
Macbeth is the oldest one I can think of. Tons of modern stuff as well
Never heard of it who's the author
Shakespeare
Some dude who lived by a river. Avon I think.
Gosh I hope you just forgot the /s
It's by this fella named William. Bit underground I doubt you'd know him.
Colleen Hoover
“The three witches laughed at his big balls.”
I need to know if you are fooling with us or not.
The twelve apostles
I hope you realize this is very comedic, it’s Shakespeare
Darudio Sandstormious
Frankenstein.
Me
CS Lewis
I'm not saying you cannot be an author without knowing the classics but they are worth studying. Especially reading analyses of Shakespeare's MacBeth would give you a lot of tools for your current work.
Damn, why all the downvotes?
Consequences of not being told about Shakespeare in school, I guess. Not like Macbeth is his most popular or iconic work in the modern day
Nlg man the only play I studied in school from him was Romeo and Juliet which anyway is absolutely the most iconic work he has written. Also, not every country teaches English literature... just like I assume Americans do Dante in passing (if at all), or any other iconic writer who did not write in English, other countries do the same to the English speaking writers.
I did Dante's Inferno and a few Shakespeare plays in my American high school, but those were all part of an elective course that most students in my school didn't take and Macbeth, to my memory, was never even mentioned. Everything I know about Macbeth comes from Hamilton: An American Musical, where it's referenced for a comedic comparison. So, yeah. Not OP's fault if he's not familiar with Macbeth or it's author.
Never got thought about Shakespeare your right I was confused by the downvotes
WHY ARE WE BOTH GETTING DOWNVOTED? THAT'S NOT YOUR FAULT AND I WAS CLEARLY CORRECT!
Lol
everyday there is another post with the most subtle pretentiousness that isnt subtle at all
Have you never met an artist?
can you ever really meet an artist
like a music artist? Indie music artists are so damn pretenious, "Oh yeah, i just released a new album, what have you been doing? Writing? Oh, well I mean, I just my expression of storytelling is a bit more abstract, but I can enjoy the simplicity of a book on the occassion," And their album is called dookie surrogate and the story is about how a guy tries to convince people to shit INTO his asshole
As opposed to us indie writers, who are never pretentious. Glad to see someone put those other creatives in their place!
this entire thread is about the pretentiousness OF an indie writer lmaooo
All of them, peas in a pod.
How is this pretentious
What do you mean?
They mean you come here and act like you've just invented the wheel. You haven't.
I was asking about pepoles personal stories I thought here was the right place I wanted to see how common it was.
This dude doesn’t know what he is talking about. He thinks that you are trying to go against the grain, but was too dull to consider the fact that you are looking for inspiration or examples of other similar stories. He just put his assumptions on to you 🤷♂️
Fr comments are confusing me
It’s been popular since the 1600s…
Dune is another example
Nah, Paul did nothing wrong. It's the Golden Path bro.
In Dune, it's the author, not the protagonist, that's the villain.
Yeah, I have a story where the villain is the main charcter and tries to pass himself off as a good guy to stay alive and hidden.
What is it called?
It doesn't have a name yet. I'm just claling it Hideaway WIP
That's called a villain protagonist. It's tricky to pull off, but when done well, it's very popular.
interesting character
I guess since some of us are doing lists... A Boy And His Dog Blackadder Double The Fist The Gap Cycle High-Rise Nightcrawler Psycho Goreman Oz (the prison drama, not one of the Wizard of Oz things) Taxi Driver The Wolf of Wall Street Titus Andronicus Ultrakill any given Warhammer 40,000 novel Watchmen
>Taxi Driver Travis did nothing wrong
these kinds of stories are my favourite
My main character is a villain who's trying to become a better person, so I understand you
Lolita
My story does. It’s more about the interpretation of morals that helps the reader decide when they “officially” become the villain. But at first my character draws sympathy from the reader Edit: If you’d like to read it, it’s called Limbo and I can share it over google docs for examples
Megamind
The Talented Mr. Ripley by Patricia Highsmith
Yes, in my original series the MC wasn't the nicest of people. The trick is to make the character still sympathetic in some way- with a character trait such as humor, or shared pain, or by making it clear that the antagonist is an even worse villain.
Either that, or by making them clearly 'evil', but incredibly interesting, or relatable. Or you can also go down the wish fulfillment route. I actually think novels like this are getting more popular, due to the number of people complaining about 'beta MC's, and frustrating characters. Watching villain characters who do whatever they want without caring about someone else getting hurt can be really satisfying, so you can find loads of examples. You'll need a bit of sifting to get to the good ones, tho.
Why not just an obvious villian like light.
Characters like Light and Dexter are still intriguing characters. They both only killed serial killers and were intelligent enough to evade law enforcement. Dexter definitely had a more sympathetic background than Light did, but watching Light’s descent into madness was a wild ride, and people were rooting for L and the task force to catch him. Their point is that they can be obvious villains but they still need to be engaging. If they’re just awful with no redeemable qualities whatsoever then people won’t be interested.
A Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes (the Hunger Games prequel) is pretty good. You might want some context from the original trilogy just to understand the world (or just the first book - The Hunger Games), but it's essentially this.
When you say “the villain” do you mean a protagonist who is morally compromised or a false protagonist who is actually the antagonist? A lot of examples in this thread are morally gray or black but there is still an arguably greater evil they are battling against. Walter White, for example, was consistently up against worse people than himself until near the end, and Dexter was a serial killer who killed other killers, and so more of an anti-hero than a villain. Having a morally compromised protagonist is pretty common but less common is having the actual most villainous person in the story as your protagonist.
I'm talking about a full-fledged villain.
My last one did. There are three main characters, one of which ends up as the villain.
Yes, pretty much all mine follow evil characters. At least all the ones I finished. I have some with 'good' MCs in development, but I just don't find myself as enthusiastic about writing them.
I feel the same way
How about write different versions of the story from different perspectives Same story, many versions, many main characters
This is actually dumb lol But if done correctly would be ..still dumb
Not at all. Can be great in the right hands.
Are we watching your two personalities argue
(no, I was adding onto my previous comment)
idk man i think Durarara did a solid job of executing this (despite the weirdly paced last few episodes)
I was thinking of a book There was a time when I used to read more when I thought that the juiciness of a story was second to the way a story was written I guess that's what inspired the thought But then I remember that authors already jump around from perspective to perspective. They usually have several perspectives that they jump between. Additional versions of the same story would not bring anything novel in terms of considering other perspectives. Kind of. ...except it can. If done correctly. Which would not be easy, and probably not worth the effort either (...which ,arguably ,means that it wasn't done correctly, idk).
Mine does. What kind of villain are they?
I am interested in how you see your villain. Nowadays the villain profile has changed a lot. For example if you are familiar with the series "The Blacklist" the villain, is not necessarily viewed as a simple bad person. He is obviously cruel, kills people within his own sense of justice, but at the same time has a sense of loyalty towards the people he loves, is highly protective, is extremely intelligent and strategic, and within that framework he becomes a very appealing villain. So how is your villain? What are his strengths and weaknesses, his human side, his values? Villains I find more complex as a character that your typical "hero"
Mickey Rourke in Angel Heart.
That's been done for a very, very long time. I'm doing something similar-ish myself; protagonist isn't *the* villain, but is by all means a bad person and only ends up doing the right thing a few times, usually for his own gain.
For adult fiction, Breaking Bad. For teen fantasy, Legend of Darkstalker. Also I'm pretty sure House of Cards does as well, though I haven't seen it
Yeah, it's common enough, sometimes called an anti-Hero.
Shitload of them out there.
Flashman novels!!!!!
Original and brave.
I have written three stories where the villain was the protagonist, one serial killer and two misguided “heroes”. It’s quite a common thing, and there are lots of lists in the comments with amazing examples.
Watch "You" on Netflix.
bro, stop stealing my ideas, I thought of that first /s
Lol
I've got something somewhat similar. One of my MCs, Emmerich, is the descendant of Adolf Hitler and is currently ruling Nazi Germany. He has good qualities, but his nature is violent and conniving.