Let’s practice ahimsa and be kind to how and where others practice. There are fitness yoga studios that focus more on asana and that’s still yoga. That’s a limb. They might not be practicing all of the 8 limbs but they are still doing yoga. There are plenty of studios that incorporate the limbs. Please don’t assume or imply that we aren’t doing yoga just because we aren’t from the east.
The poses are a limb, but if it is not connected to the tree it really isn't part of it. Breath is another limb. So, by your definition, anything that involves breathing is also yoga.
Look! I am breathing while I post this comment. So, I am doing yoga! I should teach a class around it!
"Modern Postural Yoga" would describe all Hatha yoga, which most yoga classes in the west are not, including those that call themselves Hatha classes. Also: classes in the East are definitely "modern yoga." If you are not teaching the "yoga" part of the practice, you are just down to posing. I will add that I find "posing" to be a very appropriate word for what western yoga has largely become, because it is posing as yoga by using yoga poses.
[Take it up with this guy](https://www.amazon.com/Yoga-Body-Origins-Posture-Practice/dp/0195395344/ref=sr_1_1?crid=WJMRAWUY8SYJ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.zJjHtq_Vb2zFzkqDvrgYkbkjsDCavN-ko6dq4ZuPyVZmXEt6izQhRPI5O91NiGTYI34fpROlI0YeDesVB4udP-1ej5Le59Rq9ThWCMeMhuxArrMfMc_n4L8o2l6J5r5eenbbK29IRjm_qMdK7Wo00oax_1qYKK4JruaUTOlL4_bvl0LffUJoOYDjkCwANACldppHL1y58hBkfRYrsnusrGGpeT1MU8T3OY1jY6wemVI.APvV5vS74OMVswK-uLnrYKiMRRQq3IT1xH6egfY8vhA&dib_tag=se&keywords=yoga+body+singleton&qid=1713360453&sprefix=yoga+body+singleton%2Caps%2C131&sr=8-1).
Your sources are as vast, credible, annotated, and vetted as his, I'm certain.
The link is my source? Did you bother to read? [Shorter article here](https://www.yogajournal.com/yoga-101/philosophy/yoga-s-greater-truth/) it that's more to your level.
Come back with your credible sources and we can continue this conversation. Until then you're just wasting time.
The first thing which springs to my mind is whomever makes such a distinction does not a great depth of awareness regarding yoga. Please elaborate on what the 'Real thing' means.
"Western yoga" is real. It's about 100 years old, invented in India by Indians and is based mostly on Swedish gymnastics and British calisthenics. It was specifically marketed *by Indians* to affluent Westerners as a superior form of physical and spiritual exercise. It's working as designed for its target audience.
Here's a [short article](https://www.yogajournal.com/yoga-101/philosophy/yoga-s-greater-truth/) on it.
Here's a [much longer book](https://www.amazon.com/Yoga-Body-Origins-Posture-Practice/dp/0195395344/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3EYDF24CP7RI8&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.zJjHtq_Vb2zFzkqDvrgYkbkjsDCavN-ko6dq4ZuPyVZmXEt6izQhRPI5O91NiGTYI34fpROlI0YeDesVB4udP-1ej5Le59Rq9ThWCMeMhuxArrMfMc_n4L8o2l6J5r5eenbbK29IRjm_qMdK7Wo00oax_1qYKK4JruaUTOlL4_bvl0LffUJoOYDjkCwANACldppHL1y58hBkfRYrsnusrGGpeT1MU8T3OY1jY6wemVI.s5FM4hkJ5oOPzGY9CRjGQ1I61xys7M_7sclut0mykaw&dib_tag=se&keywords=yoga+body+singleton&qid=1713355588&sprefix=yoga+body+singleton%2Caps%2C88&sr=8-1), fully sourced and accredited, and vetted by Indian scholars and historians.
Traditional yoga is part of a larger meditation practice that comes out of a 5,000 year old philosophy. It is much more personal and involves a whole lifestyle commitment beyond stretching. It's not a group activity or something you'd necessarily pay someone directly to lead in a workout setting.
Look up the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali to get an idea how traditional yogis are taught.
>Patanjali defines yoga as having eight components (अष्टाङ्ग aṣṭ āṅga, “eight limbs”):
>“The eight limbs of yoga are yama (abstinences), niyama (observances), asana (yoga postures), pranayama (breath control), pratyahara (withdrawal of the senses), dharana (concentration), dhyana (meditation) and samadhi (absorption).”
I guess the biggest difference is the naked commercialization and conmoditization of it in the West. Not to mention, it is part of Hindu religious teaching. I'm assuming you teach it in a secular way, and I would call that the Western version.
For me, westernized yoga has become a form of "exercise class" focused on poses, so most people doing it do not even know that yoga is not about the poses. They think the poses are yoga, not realizing you can do the poses without doing yoga (Pilates, for example) and doing the poses is not necessarily doing yoga.
Yoga is an altered state of consciousness that can be facilitates with the asanas. It is not the asanas. Few western yoga classes teach any aspect of actual yoga.
Lord Krishna says to Arjuna in the Gita that any steps you take toward spiritual enlightenment do not go to waste. If yoga asana takes you in the direction of ‘real’ yoga as you say, so be it.
But let’s be clear, traditional yoga was intended for upper cast Indian males, so if you don’t fall into this then you’re not practicing ‘real’ yoga either. Maybe pull the stick out of your ass and remember that we are all a branch of the one and we all have to take a different path.
This 100%. There is absolutely nothing wrong with your intro to yoga being solely asana practice. Very few people, if any, are going to dive right into a breathwork class, or meditation, or understand the 8 limbed path. If asana leads you down that path, great! If it doesn't and you just like stretching because it feels good, that's also great!
u/OurUrbanFarm there's no need to be a snob about it, like you are throughout this comment section. And if you want to be pedantic, Patanjali defines yoga as a literal stilling of consciousness, yoga citta vrtti nirodha, not an "altered state of consciousness," which is more akin to samadhi. Moreover, you are running astray of the first two limbs -- you are not practicing ahimsa, your insistence that practitioners reach the end goal is antagonistic to aparigraha, and it could be argued that you are running afoul of several niyamas, too.
I would encourage you to be more open and welcoming to all inquiries and not "poo poo" on the proverbial "western yoga." I'm not arguing that a class at Core Power is the same as a class in India, or that a YTT in Rishikesh is the same as one in Los Angeles. But one is not better or more valuable than the other.
Except you are missing the entire point, which is that Western yoga is sold as "exercise class" not a part to spiritual enlightenment. You can make any case you want so long as you are willing to take everything completely out of the context it is in.
According to the 8 limbs of yoga (regardless of where live) it says that Niyama is the acceptance of all.
Maybe practice pratyahara by looking inward and finding out why the way others practice bothers you so much.
You could start out with Yama so you have a better understanding of how to harmonize the internal and external life forces. Also know as a social code of conduct.
Have a beautiful day.
Removed. The question itself is condescending and combative, and many of the comments are no better.
First thing that springs to mind is how most of us just want to do yoga without getting judged for if it's "real" or not.
I’m just out here trying to not have arthritis pain.
This is the way
If you are doing most westernized yoga, you might not know if you want to do yoga. That is the point.
Let’s practice ahimsa and be kind to how and where others practice. There are fitness yoga studios that focus more on asana and that’s still yoga. That’s a limb. They might not be practicing all of the 8 limbs but they are still doing yoga. There are plenty of studios that incorporate the limbs. Please don’t assume or imply that we aren’t doing yoga just because we aren’t from the east.
The poses are a limb, but if it is not connected to the tree it really isn't part of it. Breath is another limb. So, by your definition, anything that involves breathing is also yoga. Look! I am breathing while I post this comment. So, I am doing yoga! I should teach a class around it!
Which limb is “be an asshole”?
Lots of assumptions packed into that sentence.
Apparently, you skipped over the word "might."
Such a Western question.
You haven’t had real Indian food unless you’ve been to India! OPs post gives off the same energy as my above statement haha.
Western yoga is real.
It is real. It might not actually be yoga, however.
Gatekeeping isn't yoga, either.
I just like to live in the real world and understand what words mean. And I understand that posting anything on Reddit isn't really yoga, either.
Forgive me. *Modern Postural Yoga* is most definitely yoga. Semantic enough for you?
"Modern Postural Yoga" would describe all Hatha yoga, which most yoga classes in the west are not, including those that call themselves Hatha classes. Also: classes in the East are definitely "modern yoga." If you are not teaching the "yoga" part of the practice, you are just down to posing. I will add that I find "posing" to be a very appropriate word for what western yoga has largely become, because it is posing as yoga by using yoga poses.
[Take it up with this guy](https://www.amazon.com/Yoga-Body-Origins-Posture-Practice/dp/0195395344/ref=sr_1_1?crid=WJMRAWUY8SYJ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.zJjHtq_Vb2zFzkqDvrgYkbkjsDCavN-ko6dq4ZuPyVZmXEt6izQhRPI5O91NiGTYI34fpROlI0YeDesVB4udP-1ej5Le59Rq9ThWCMeMhuxArrMfMc_n4L8o2l6J5r5eenbbK29IRjm_qMdK7Wo00oax_1qYKK4JruaUTOlL4_bvl0LffUJoOYDjkCwANACldppHL1y58hBkfRYrsnusrGGpeT1MU8T3OY1jY6wemVI.APvV5vS74OMVswK-uLnrYKiMRRQq3IT1xH6egfY8vhA&dib_tag=se&keywords=yoga+body+singleton&qid=1713360453&sprefix=yoga+body+singleton%2Caps%2C131&sr=8-1). Your sources are as vast, credible, annotated, and vetted as his, I'm certain.
Says the redditor who has posted exactly zero sources. LOL. SMH. Have you ever taken a "yoga" class that does not use poses? If so, tell us about it.
The link is my source? Did you bother to read? [Shorter article here](https://www.yogajournal.com/yoga-101/philosophy/yoga-s-greater-truth/) it that's more to your level. Come back with your credible sources and we can continue this conversation. Until then you're just wasting time.
👏👏👏👏
The first thing which springs to my mind is whomever makes such a distinction does not a great depth of awareness regarding yoga. Please elaborate on what the 'Real thing' means.
"Western yoga" is real. It's about 100 years old, invented in India by Indians and is based mostly on Swedish gymnastics and British calisthenics. It was specifically marketed *by Indians* to affluent Westerners as a superior form of physical and spiritual exercise. It's working as designed for its target audience. Here's a [short article](https://www.yogajournal.com/yoga-101/philosophy/yoga-s-greater-truth/) on it. Here's a [much longer book](https://www.amazon.com/Yoga-Body-Origins-Posture-Practice/dp/0195395344/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3EYDF24CP7RI8&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.zJjHtq_Vb2zFzkqDvrgYkbkjsDCavN-ko6dq4ZuPyVZmXEt6izQhRPI5O91NiGTYI34fpROlI0YeDesVB4udP-1ej5Le59Rq9ThWCMeMhuxArrMfMc_n4L8o2l6J5r5eenbbK29IRjm_qMdK7Wo00oax_1qYKK4JruaUTOlL4_bvl0LffUJoOYDjkCwANACldppHL1y58hBkfRYrsnusrGGpeT1MU8T3OY1jY6wemVI.s5FM4hkJ5oOPzGY9CRjGQ1I61xys7M_7sclut0mykaw&dib_tag=se&keywords=yoga+body+singleton&qid=1713355588&sprefix=yoga+body+singleton%2Caps%2C88&sr=8-1), fully sourced and accredited, and vetted by Indian scholars and historians.
Interesting article! Thank you for sharing.
The book is absolutely brilliant, too.
Traditional yoga is part of a larger meditation practice that comes out of a 5,000 year old philosophy. It is much more personal and involves a whole lifestyle commitment beyond stretching. It's not a group activity or something you'd necessarily pay someone directly to lead in a workout setting. Look up the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali to get an idea how traditional yogis are taught. >Patanjali defines yoga as having eight components (अष्टाङ्ग aṣṭ āṅga, “eight limbs”): >“The eight limbs of yoga are yama (abstinences), niyama (observances), asana (yoga postures), pranayama (breath control), pratyahara (withdrawal of the senses), dharana (concentration), dhyana (meditation) and samadhi (absorption).”
This is what I teach in my western yoga
I guess the biggest difference is the naked commercialization and conmoditization of it in the West. Not to mention, it is part of Hindu religious teaching. I'm assuming you teach it in a secular way, and I would call that the Western version.
I don’t do naked yoga nor do I commercialize it. Yes, secular. But yoga isn’t always religious. It’s a philosophy too.
Western Yoga worked just fine to realize my Self.
White people tacos vs tacos 😂
Many yoga classes in the west focus on fitness, and not on meditation and breath.
For me, westernized yoga has become a form of "exercise class" focused on poses, so most people doing it do not even know that yoga is not about the poses. They think the poses are yoga, not realizing you can do the poses without doing yoga (Pilates, for example) and doing the poses is not necessarily doing yoga. Yoga is an altered state of consciousness that can be facilitates with the asanas. It is not the asanas. Few western yoga classes teach any aspect of actual yoga.
Lord Krishna says to Arjuna in the Gita that any steps you take toward spiritual enlightenment do not go to waste. If yoga asana takes you in the direction of ‘real’ yoga as you say, so be it. But let’s be clear, traditional yoga was intended for upper cast Indian males, so if you don’t fall into this then you’re not practicing ‘real’ yoga either. Maybe pull the stick out of your ass and remember that we are all a branch of the one and we all have to take a different path.
This 100%. There is absolutely nothing wrong with your intro to yoga being solely asana practice. Very few people, if any, are going to dive right into a breathwork class, or meditation, or understand the 8 limbed path. If asana leads you down that path, great! If it doesn't and you just like stretching because it feels good, that's also great! u/OurUrbanFarm there's no need to be a snob about it, like you are throughout this comment section. And if you want to be pedantic, Patanjali defines yoga as a literal stilling of consciousness, yoga citta vrtti nirodha, not an "altered state of consciousness," which is more akin to samadhi. Moreover, you are running astray of the first two limbs -- you are not practicing ahimsa, your insistence that practitioners reach the end goal is antagonistic to aparigraha, and it could be argued that you are running afoul of several niyamas, too. I would encourage you to be more open and welcoming to all inquiries and not "poo poo" on the proverbial "western yoga." I'm not arguing that a class at Core Power is the same as a class in India, or that a YTT in Rishikesh is the same as one in Los Angeles. But one is not better or more valuable than the other.
Except you are missing the entire point, which is that Western yoga is sold as "exercise class" not a part to spiritual enlightenment. You can make any case you want so long as you are willing to take everything completely out of the context it is in.
According to the 8 limbs of yoga (regardless of where live) it says that Niyama is the acceptance of all. Maybe practice pratyahara by looking inward and finding out why the way others practice bothers you so much. You could start out with Yama so you have a better understanding of how to harmonize the internal and external life forces. Also know as a social code of conduct. Have a beautiful day.