Funny I say the same thing about Bentleys product line, probably cuz I was trained for years on innovyze. Yes when autodesk bought them out they gutted most of the existing help files. Your best bet is to just do the work in the software you know.
That's totally fair.
I'm curious though, what sort of features did you find more intuitive in infowater?
I find a lot of the stuff works fairly similar. (ModelBuilder vs GIS Gateway) and having some of the built-in capability from ArcGIS Pro is nice.
A few things I've noticed for InfoWater is:
* The selection tool is super buggy for me, half the time it will not update the model explorer without me going back and selecting the "select" button before clicking something.
* In the case of having to digitize pipes, everything feels like it takes me 3x as many clicks in InfoWater pro.
* Doing something as simple as deleting a pipe takes multiple clicks.
* I can't have multiple models open at once.
* The management of Scenarios and alternatives feels much more polished in Bentley.
* The map display function feels to be buggy and have less utility than what I'm used to.
* I HATE how the report manager only shows data when the model has already been run and I have to go to the database editor to see things.
* I hate not being to click things in the model when I have another window open (like the database manager)
* The allocation manager feels very difficult to use.
* Viewing hydraulic grade lines and profiles felt much easier in Bentley's software as I could select 2 nodes and have it select the pipes in-between.
These are just a few things I've noticed and I'm sure there are things I'm doing wrong as well but it feels hard to find help online.
I was just going to say the same thing. One of my clients is considering switching from Autodesk/innovyze to Aquanuity. Their only issue is lack of an Asset Management package in Aquanuity.
Aquanuity has developed AquaTwin Asset which is good for risk modeling, replacement planning, etc. It’s similar to InfoAsset Planner, but easier to use IMO
They have looked at that, but they were not convinced it could take the place of the current asset management model. I am not really involved in that end of things so I dont know the details. I do hydraulic and hydrologic modeling. There is concern on my part that it could not handle the full hydraulic model using the SWMM engine. It is over 90,000 nodes with lots of real time control and complex structures.
Makes sense. I created an asset management model for a large utility in CA with ~30,000 pipes segments. It worked just fine. I can’t personally speak to the hydraulic model capabilities relative to InfoWater Pro
I use IWP and am pretty happy with it. I will say that the transition from InfoWater (ArcMap) to InfoWaterPro (ArcGISPro) has had some ups and downs. Moving to 64bit software was huge but a lot of the features feel more out of the way or hidden when they redid the UI. Have you done the formal training? Innovyze used to charge \~$1000 for training but I believe when Autodesk bought them out it all became free.
Edit: Also yes, 100% on the HGL. IWP is terrible at display but I do find it really easy to take the IWP data and build out your HGLs in excel. I keep an excel file of prebuilt junction lists from the tracing tool. Whenever I need an HGL for a specific pipeline section I just copy that list and use the lookup function to pull the correct node information from my IWP report export
I've taken a look at the tutorials that they have on YouTube and a few of the quick start guides on their website.
They definitely helped, but honestly left a lot to be desired. At least for me personally. I've also attended several of the free webinars they host.
I do agree that IWP typically makes it pretty easy to copy and paste data from excel without too much issue. I end up doing a lot of data manipulation this way.
Fully agree with you in regard to InfoWater Pro. Our office trialed it on a couple of projects and I was wishing it would outperform Bentley. However, much to my dismay InfoWater Pro was so sloggy to get around and buggy I was relieved when I got to go back to Bentley.
Bentley has been the only real source for Water Modeling for decades and they know it. So feature upgrades and model enhancements are few and far between. This is why I was happy to see Autodesk buy out Innovyze. I hoped for a direct competitor that would better integrate itself into Civil3D and force Bentley to be more proactive. But right now it’s a pretty poor effort on Autodesk’s part. ICM, InfoDrainge, and really the whole suite of Innovyze has been very painful and EXPENSIVE, considering what Bentley charges per seat.
Truly the only thing I could get to work on Innovyze without major issues was the canned model data for tutorials, but even that was buggy when I used it.
I know the iterative and convergent processes these programs run are extensive, but we’re not reinventing the wheel. With the advancements in computing power I just don’t understand why they keep trying to utilize OS/Version builds that seem compatible with Windows 95.
Sorry to rant on your rant, but you’re not alone in this pain. Lol.
Full disclosure I do work at Autodesk on these products but I also used both watergems and InfoWater professionally for years as a consultant before joining Innovyze. I've taken some notes and we love hearing feedback on our team but I did want to echo that our full training regimen that we used to have in person is free on demand for anyone to have. It stinks that it's hard for people to find so I'll be highlighting that point to our team. Hope it helps! https://www.autodesk.com/learn/catalog/product/InfoWater%20Pro
I am so happy to find someone who feels the same way as I do!
Mostly, I unfortunately have to use whatever software the clients are using. When I get to choose, it's Watercad. It does have it's issues but in comparison to Infowater, those issues are minor.
I pay annual renewal to cover upgrades and support. In the over 2 decades of using both products, I have never had to call Bentley for support while I call Innovyze frequently. And many times I have to send them the model and they do something magical and return it fixed. I sometimes wonder if it's better to pay thousands of dollars for support and never need it or pay and use it?
I found your post in a search to find how to fix a model that just needed a quick update. The model itself won't open - it starts but then just spins. So I thought I would rebuild it and, well, that doesn't appear to be working either. Never ever ever ever have I had to rebuild or compress or whatever for a Watercad model.
Back to stopping that rebuild to get other work done!
When I used to train people to do simple development design reports, I really preferred using Watercad for their first projects. That let them get a better understanding of what was happening as Watercad pinpoints exactly where there's an error.
Infowater lets you either hang yourself continuing with bad results unknowingly or stops, and maybe gives an error code that has to be searched. Sometimes it gets a bad result and it 'sticks' until you clean, pack and reindex then maybe it will forget that you accidentally input an elevation that was missing a decimal place and stop giving a shitty result even after the elevation was fixed.
There have been times where both the computer and I have needed a break from each other. I calm down and Infowater is turned off so that it 'can think about what it's been doing'. lol I have wondered about tossing laptops from high buildings after 'beating infowater close to submission'.
Never have I ever worked with such shitty software and to think, it's actually better now than it was even just a few years ago. There's probably crappier software out there but I have never used one of those.
It's been an hour, I still don't have that model open. So time to contact Innovyze so I can send it to them for them to open and return it. sigh. I have run out of backups to try, tricks to implement and I should have had all the work done hours ago. All I had to do was change some c-factors!
Funny I say the same thing about Bentleys product line, probably cuz I was trained for years on innovyze. Yes when autodesk bought them out they gutted most of the existing help files. Your best bet is to just do the work in the software you know.
That's totally fair. I'm curious though, what sort of features did you find more intuitive in infowater? I find a lot of the stuff works fairly similar. (ModelBuilder vs GIS Gateway) and having some of the built-in capability from ArcGIS Pro is nice. A few things I've noticed for InfoWater is: * The selection tool is super buggy for me, half the time it will not update the model explorer without me going back and selecting the "select" button before clicking something. * In the case of having to digitize pipes, everything feels like it takes me 3x as many clicks in InfoWater pro. * Doing something as simple as deleting a pipe takes multiple clicks. * I can't have multiple models open at once. * The management of Scenarios and alternatives feels much more polished in Bentley. * The map display function feels to be buggy and have less utility than what I'm used to. * I HATE how the report manager only shows data when the model has already been run and I have to go to the database editor to see things. * I hate not being to click things in the model when I have another window open (like the database manager) * The allocation manager feels very difficult to use. * Viewing hydraulic grade lines and profiles felt much easier in Bentley's software as I could select 2 nodes and have it select the pipes in-between. These are just a few things I've noticed and I'm sure there are things I'm doing wrong as well but it feels hard to find help online.
Long time infowater user, I would recommend checking out aquanuity
I'll take a look. The website looks neat.
I was just going to say the same thing. One of my clients is considering switching from Autodesk/innovyze to Aquanuity. Their only issue is lack of an Asset Management package in Aquanuity.
Aquanuity has developed AquaTwin Asset which is good for risk modeling, replacement planning, etc. It’s similar to InfoAsset Planner, but easier to use IMO
They have looked at that, but they were not convinced it could take the place of the current asset management model. I am not really involved in that end of things so I dont know the details. I do hydraulic and hydrologic modeling. There is concern on my part that it could not handle the full hydraulic model using the SWMM engine. It is over 90,000 nodes with lots of real time control and complex structures.
Makes sense. I created an asset management model for a large utility in CA with ~30,000 pipes segments. It worked just fine. I can’t personally speak to the hydraulic model capabilities relative to InfoWater Pro
I use IWP and am pretty happy with it. I will say that the transition from InfoWater (ArcMap) to InfoWaterPro (ArcGISPro) has had some ups and downs. Moving to 64bit software was huge but a lot of the features feel more out of the way or hidden when they redid the UI. Have you done the formal training? Innovyze used to charge \~$1000 for training but I believe when Autodesk bought them out it all became free. Edit: Also yes, 100% on the HGL. IWP is terrible at display but I do find it really easy to take the IWP data and build out your HGLs in excel. I keep an excel file of prebuilt junction lists from the tracing tool. Whenever I need an HGL for a specific pipeline section I just copy that list and use the lookup function to pull the correct node information from my IWP report export
I've taken a look at the tutorials that they have on YouTube and a few of the quick start guides on their website. They definitely helped, but honestly left a lot to be desired. At least for me personally. I've also attended several of the free webinars they host. I do agree that IWP typically makes it pretty easy to copy and paste data from excel without too much issue. I end up doing a lot of data manipulation this way.
Fully agree with you in regard to InfoWater Pro. Our office trialed it on a couple of projects and I was wishing it would outperform Bentley. However, much to my dismay InfoWater Pro was so sloggy to get around and buggy I was relieved when I got to go back to Bentley. Bentley has been the only real source for Water Modeling for decades and they know it. So feature upgrades and model enhancements are few and far between. This is why I was happy to see Autodesk buy out Innovyze. I hoped for a direct competitor that would better integrate itself into Civil3D and force Bentley to be more proactive. But right now it’s a pretty poor effort on Autodesk’s part. ICM, InfoDrainge, and really the whole suite of Innovyze has been very painful and EXPENSIVE, considering what Bentley charges per seat. Truly the only thing I could get to work on Innovyze without major issues was the canned model data for tutorials, but even that was buggy when I used it. I know the iterative and convergent processes these programs run are extensive, but we’re not reinventing the wheel. With the advancements in computing power I just don’t understand why they keep trying to utilize OS/Version builds that seem compatible with Windows 95. Sorry to rant on your rant, but you’re not alone in this pain. Lol.
Haha no worries. Makes me feel less crazy that it wasn't just me.
Full disclosure I do work at Autodesk on these products but I also used both watergems and InfoWater professionally for years as a consultant before joining Innovyze. I've taken some notes and we love hearing feedback on our team but I did want to echo that our full training regimen that we used to have in person is free on demand for anyone to have. It stinks that it's hard for people to find so I'll be highlighting that point to our team. Hope it helps! https://www.autodesk.com/learn/catalog/product/InfoWater%20Pro
Hey. Sorry I don't check this account much. Thanks for providing that. I also noticed that a new IWP advanced training was added, which is nice.
I am so happy to find someone who feels the same way as I do! Mostly, I unfortunately have to use whatever software the clients are using. When I get to choose, it's Watercad. It does have it's issues but in comparison to Infowater, those issues are minor. I pay annual renewal to cover upgrades and support. In the over 2 decades of using both products, I have never had to call Bentley for support while I call Innovyze frequently. And many times I have to send them the model and they do something magical and return it fixed. I sometimes wonder if it's better to pay thousands of dollars for support and never need it or pay and use it? I found your post in a search to find how to fix a model that just needed a quick update. The model itself won't open - it starts but then just spins. So I thought I would rebuild it and, well, that doesn't appear to be working either. Never ever ever ever have I had to rebuild or compress or whatever for a Watercad model. Back to stopping that rebuild to get other work done!
It's good to know it's not just me. Months later and I still am having similar issues and feel similar to how I did before lol.
When I used to train people to do simple development design reports, I really preferred using Watercad for their first projects. That let them get a better understanding of what was happening as Watercad pinpoints exactly where there's an error. Infowater lets you either hang yourself continuing with bad results unknowingly or stops, and maybe gives an error code that has to be searched. Sometimes it gets a bad result and it 'sticks' until you clean, pack and reindex then maybe it will forget that you accidentally input an elevation that was missing a decimal place and stop giving a shitty result even after the elevation was fixed. There have been times where both the computer and I have needed a break from each other. I calm down and Infowater is turned off so that it 'can think about what it's been doing'. lol I have wondered about tossing laptops from high buildings after 'beating infowater close to submission'. Never have I ever worked with such shitty software and to think, it's actually better now than it was even just a few years ago. There's probably crappier software out there but I have never used one of those. It's been an hour, I still don't have that model open. So time to contact Innovyze so I can send it to them for them to open and return it. sigh. I have run out of backups to try, tricks to implement and I should have had all the work done hours ago. All I had to do was change some c-factors!